00:00:00,180 S10: So I think in the absence of the chair, that was the conversation with, uh, Kate, just to be transparent. Um, I'm going to I'm the vice chair of the Open Space and Recreation Committee. I'm going to call the meeting to order and open the floor. Um, we have with us a quorum, myself. Uh, Ann Weeks, Tom Skinner, Tom star, and I think a new member. Bianca Hansen. Is that true? Bianca. Introduce yourself. Lovely to see you. I don't know if you have the ability to see off camera. on switch. 00:00:36,590 S11: Can you hear me? 00:00:37,350 S10: We can. We can see you, though. 00:00:40,910 S1: Sorry. 00:00:41,830 S11: I had it on my calendar for six. And I'm actually just picking my kids up, so I understood. 00:00:47,750 S12: I understood my computer. 00:00:49,510 S10: Understood. And we all have a hard stop at six because Kate needs to go to the select board. And, um, we would like to make sure that she can get there on time. So that's why I'm opening it and not waiting any longer for, uh, for Ernest. Um, we have a kind of a busy agenda for an hour long meeting. So, um, I just will note that the minutes are being taken and that this is being recorded, um, and that the notes will be available after, um, the meeting. We have minutes that we review and approve. So I am going to now put myself on mute and turn it over to Kate Mallory, who's our staff person, to do a little presentation. And then we're going to have a conversation about Pingree Park. Thanks. 00:01:35,450 S4: Great. And I also want to say that with me and my office is Lou Randazzo. He is also a member of the Open Space and Recreation Committee. Couldn't get my camera to work very well, so. 00:01:45,250 S10: Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to to mention Lou. 00:01:47,890 S1: No, he's. 00:01:48,530 S4: He's hiding over here in the corner. Uh, thank you all for joining us today. So, Ernest, uh, wanted me to put together, and we've been doing this kind of throughout the years, uh, a collection of the recreational facilities that we currently have in town. And so I worked with Sean Timmons a bit. It's been finalized since the new high school. Um, recreation facilities are now updated so we can kind of see that right now in town, we've got 20 pickleball courts. That does not take up. 00:02:24,570 S10: I hate to interrupt you, but I don't know about other people, but for me, it's not very possible to see this presentation. It's very tiny. I'm changing my view so that I can see it a little bit better, but it's still very small, so I don't know if there's some way you can pop it out or just. 00:02:42,060 Can you do something? S4: Can you see it better now? 00:02:43,380 S10: All together or. Yes. It's it's it's better now. Thank you very much. I just want to make sure that people can actually follow what you're talking about. 00:02:51,340 S4: Great. Sounds perfect. All right, so right now, between Hamilton and Wenham, we have 20 pickleball courts. And this does not include Pingree. Um, I do want to preface this with if you look here, West Wenham Park, there is four pickleball courts. Um, they cannot be used by our rec department for any sort of recreational services because organized sports cannot be used. Um, at West Wenham Park there is a restriction on organized sports. So, um, we have Patton Park has for the high school now has eight and we have w vis has four courts. Um, and then I'll quickly go through. We've got 11 baseball and soccer field. I mean, baseball and softball fields, 11, um, soccer, multi-use fields. Got one track fields now. We've got that pump track at West Wenham Park that we all know about and love. We've got two picnic areas, so one at Patton Park and one at West Wenham Park. We've got that great outdoor pool. We've got now a fitness area at West Wenham Park and a walking pathway over there. Um, we've got five playgrounds and we've got three basketball courts in town and 15 tennis courts. So Ernest and I thought it was important, when we start this conversation to get kind of an overview of already what we have in town. 00:04:23,640 S4: So if you remember, we did in late 2024, we did a quick survey. It was not an in-depth survey. We got 40 people that responded and we had asked really three options. We had three options at the time. This was really when we were starting all of this. But, um, option one was just kind of renovate the courts for tennis and pickleball. Uh, half the people preferred or strongly preferred that option two was to a mix of tennis and pickleball only, and then another small recreation area. And that's kind of where we had been sinking our teeth into that small recreation area. We were talking we had been talking a lot the past year about a skate park that was, um, preferred or strongly preferred by half of the group and option three of doing a whole new activity. Um, most people did not like that idea. 00:05:19,410 S4: Um, during that survey, we had residents that had some other ideas, so we left a space where people could write in what they wanted. And so you can see here that there was a whole wide variety of, you know, renovate the tennis courts, like I just said, adding pickleball courts, a skate park, safe biking and scooter area was another one. A small track for younger kids, bocce, shuffleboard, horseshoes. Some people said add lights. Some people said, don't add lights. Um, some people said, make sure you do noise abatement panels, uh, court renovation, playground safety improvements like preserved gardens, beautification. So we got a lot of great ideas out of that survey. 00:06:01,910 S4: Since then, and I know this group. Oh, here's Ernest right here. 00:06:25,040 S10: Hey, Ernest, it's Anne. I've opened the meeting and Kate has begun her presentation. 00:06:35,680 S4: Okay, Ernest, just jump in if you want to jump in at any point. Okay, I'll just continue. 00:06:43,800 S4: Um, so since that survey, we have received more recent public input, which has been absolutely wonderful. So there have been abutters, um, that have raised concerns not just about noise but noise, but, you know, traffic safety setbacks has been another one that's come in. Property boundaries has been another one that's come to our attention, um, making sure that we're really looking at liability for the town maintenance and enforceability. So those are all of you in the open Space and Rec Committee have received all of the letters in a packet, um, of every opinion that has come in. And this is kind of like an overview for everybody for this meeting. So as we know, some residents really favor restoring the tennis and, um, tennis and having the skate park. Some definitely do not want that. Um, again, a lot of other, um, recreational opportunities like soccer, futsal, which I'd never heard about before. And I guess it's a smaller version of soccer. There's less players in. It's a smaller area. Um, street hockey, basketball, small training pitches in a pavilion. So those are kind of more things we heard. And like I said, there was an a butter where there were some property line, um, concerns that we will absolutely be looking into. Um, the closest abutters to Pingree is the boulders. And so the boulders, um, a condo association has been recently very involved, which we're thankful for. And they have taken the position recently that, um. 00:08:24,270 S4: Oh. Can everybody please. So we don't get the. 00:08:31,070 S4: Um, they've taken the position, um, that they would not like to see pickleball or a skate park or similar noise making, um, uh, recreational opportunities there. And like I did say, they are the closest abutters, uh, to the court area within 100ft. 00:08:51,190 S4: So I just wanted to put together that a process for next steps. And and let's see if the Open Space and Recreation Committee would like to go with this. So basically I think we should do a new survey. And I started a new survey. Um, that's more in depth and can give us more, um, more data to work on going forward. Ernest and I have talked a lot about we'd like to hold a community event in September before narrowing the list down. Um, and then we can come back in October and present the survey results. We can talk about any additional resident letters that have come up and, um, go through basic site restraints in October. The thing we have to think of here is open space and Rec members is that the process for CPA funding is changing this year. And so they're having a pre-application and that is due October 15th. So we do not now have a lot of time if we want to go in for funding for anything. This year we only have probably two meetings in a community event left. Final applications are due December 3rd, so we can do the pre-application and then change it a little bit. But everything needs to be final by December 3rd, so let's all keep that in mind. 00:10:11,690 S10: So my my hand is up. My question was going to be on timing. If you're doing another survey. What were you thinking the timing of the survey would be. I mean, I think a lot of people are away in August, so. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. 00:10:26,470 S4: I was hoping. Um, I have almost a final draft of the survey ready to go. I was thinking to post it tomorrow, so if we can get it done tonight, we'd post it tomorrow. Um, I would send it out to the Hamilton when I'm recreation lists. They have over 700 people in their database. We would throw it out on all of our social medias. We'd get it out on the light board. We'd get it in the CoA newsletter, we'd get it on our website. We'd get it out to all boards and committees and any other email list that we can think of. So really do a heavy push from tomorrow until this September event. And then at the September event, I'd like to set up either a working space or, you know, some paper copies of the survey so people can do a survey there. So we give we'll give ample opportunity for the next month for surveys to come in, and we'll push that out for the next month. 00:11:21,360 S10: Okay, great. I know the way you were presenting it, it sounded like the survey would be wrapped up and ready to present on that at that meeting. And it doesn't sound like that's in fact the plan. So I think that's good, because I think a lot of folks won't even pay attention, honestly, if they're away until they're back for school. And it's like, all right, we're back. We're back in town. We're doing our thing. Um, so I'm I'm glad that that's what your plan is. Thank you. 00:11:49,640 S4: So really, that's all I had with my slides, and then, um, I can stop the share. And then. Ernest, when you're ready, maybe we can go over the survey that I already put together and go from there. 00:12:04,480 S2: That would be fine, Kate. And thank. 00:12:05,920 S13: You. My apologies for being a little late. And, man, to take a long time for your computer. Boot up when you really don't want to. This is retirement is set in and I can't remember what day it is. 00:12:20,340 S4: No problem. Ernest. 00:12:26,020 S13: Um, and also, I appreciate the amount of interest in the committees meeting this evening and the participation from all of you coming to, um, hear our process and also to provide the comments that you have made already by, um, the submittals that we have circulated. 00:12:48,780 S4: Absolutely. Um, so, Ernest, do you want to go through the survey? We can just button that up and then we can move on from there. 00:12:58,540 Or how do you want to move forward? S13: Go ahead and proceed through. This is the draft. 00:13:01,660 S4: This is a draft. And and please feel free any open space and rec members to jump in at any time. You don't have to raise your hand function. We can probably get through this faster that way just because we have limited time today. Um, so basically I just started with an overview. So the Wenham Open Space and Recreation Committee is seeking community input regarding the future of the existing tennis court area at Pingree Park. The town conducted an initial community survey in late 2024. Approximately 40 people participated. That survey considered renovating these existing courts for tennis and pickleball, creating a mix of courts and smaller recreational uses, or replacing the courts with a different recreational use. Since then, the committee has received additional ideas and comments from residents in nearby Buttars before narrowing the options. We'd like to hear from the broader community, so that will be the beginning overview that people will see. And I just wanted to make sure that people know that no final decisions have been made. I think that's a very important point. The survey is intended to help identify community priorities and the options that warrant further evaluation. And so it's the beginning. Where do you live? I want to make sure that people have the opportunity to put in what community they're from. So if they're not from Hamilton or when I'm where they're from. Heidi, how often do you use the park? These are natural things that happen in these kind of planning surveys. Um, before we kind of did a more broad range of who's using the park, I think we should get more granular to see who's actually using this park in what ages. 00:14:41,610 S4: Um, the first question is pretty great. What general approach would you prefer? So do we want to retain the existing courts? Do we want to do a different recreational opportunity but retain the courts? Do we want to replace it with some sort of other opportunity? Um, revamp the existing use. I need more information or no preference. 00:15:06,650 S10: Okay. Do you want to say? Keep the. When you say courts, it's very generic. It could be tennis. It could be pickleball. 00:15:14,460 S1: Okay. 00:15:15,180 S10: Do you want to say tennis courts? 00:15:17,340 S4: Yeah, that's a great idea. 00:15:19,420 S10: Because one of the things that, you know, we have a lot of pickleball courts, as you point out, but it may be the tennis courts is the answer here. And I think right now all we have they're tennis courts. 00:15:31,620 S4: So great idea. So I'll take that a little bit. Which recreational uses would you like the town to consider. And so the little blurb underneath will say select all of the uses you believe should remain under consideration. Selecting an option does not necessarily mean it will be your preferred choice. So what I did here was said every single one of the options that we've been given by residents are in this list I think. So if I'm missing anything, please remind me and I'll add it in and I'll have boxes where these dots are and then people can just click off. You know, do we want tennis courts? Do we want shared tennis courts and pickle courts? Do we want dedicated pickle courts? Do we. 00:16:19,440 S8: Want. 00:16:19,720 S13: Oh, you froze there, Kate. 00:16:22,920 S4: Um, where did I freeze? Did you hear me say like, this would be like check boxes? 00:16:30,800 S4: Can you hear me. 00:16:32,680 S10: Kate? I can hear you. I don't know who's speaking, but it might be just on their machine. 00:16:39,080 S4: Okay, you know what? It might be, Ernest, because he's not moving. Um, okay, so we'll have the boxes that you can check off, and certainly someone could check off every single box, but it's a great analytical tool to see when SurveyMonkey comes back together, it will be able to see, you know, from top to bottom, what are the most, um, preferred methods here? I think we just lost Ernest. And just so you know. 00:17:08,970 S10: He's been texting. 00:17:14,450 S4: And then I'm going to have a space open for other ideas as well. So again, we're not limiting ideas here yet. And to the residents of the boulders, which I know most of you are here, we do have your idea of that senior playground, adult adult outdoor fitness equipment in there. 00:17:36,530 S4: Um, which three recreational uses? Which you most? Would you most like the town to explore? So of those options above. Um, I'll have the person that's taking the survey list their top three options. 00:17:53,010 S4: How important are the following factors when evaluating the future of the Pingree Park Court area? So we all know the very important important blah blah, blah. So recreational benefit to the broader community. So they all say is that important yet somewhat very you know how it goes. Impact on nearby residential properties. Noise opportunities for children. Opportunities for teens. Opportunities for adults. Opportunities for older adults. Ability to serve multiple age groups. Safety. Accessibility. Construction cost. Long term maintenance cost. Parking and traffic. Trees and environmental impacts. Property boundaries. Zoning and setbacks. So, while going through all of these letters, I believe I captured all concerns from people and put it in here. And now we're asking the community how you feel about each one of those things. 00:18:52,830 S13: So will there be an ability to rank each one of those? Because you you said there's going to be multiple checkboxes. Obviously you're going to have to create this in the survey format. 00:19:06,280 S4: Yes. So this won't have the checkboxes. The one that will have the checkboxes will be the one that has all of the opportunities. Like do we want horseshoes yes or no. And so you can check. Yes I want horseshoes. Do you want shuffleboard? I don't want it. So I don't check it. So that will be the checkboxes. And then down here question seven will be um not a checkbox. It it will be on the left hand side. It will say is this very important to you. Is it somewhat I mean on the top it will say very important important, somewhat important, not very important and not important. And it will list all of these things. So this person will be able to say okay noise. Noise is very important. And they would check the very important box. 00:19:55,320 S13: Right. 00:19:59,500 S4: Some recreational activities may generate more noise than others. Which statement best reflects your view? So let's listen to this one carefully and we can change the wording if we need to. Number one higher noise recreational uses should not be considered because homes are located close to a park. Number two higher noise uses could be considered if professional analysis shows that impacts can be reasonably mitigated. Number three higher noise uses could be considered with measures such as operating hours, acoustic treatments, design changes, or other mitigation. And I put that one in because a lot of the studies say, especially with the skate park, if you don't use something like the metal, um, areas where they the, the kids slide on it, they're not as loud. So there are different ways to design things where the noise is mitigated for some, additional recreational noise is reasonable at a public park, and five I need more information before forming an opinion. 00:21:17,670 Does anyone from the Open Space and Rec committee have any thing to add here? S13: I see two and three to be a little bit similar. Yeah. 00:21:24,550 Was that Tom Carr? S8: Yeah. I mean I don't mind them being similar, but they're also different. That's you know, in other words like you specifically say acoustic treatments and the third one but not the second one. And that would seem to be the key thing when you're dealing with higher noise. Right. So maybe you should use the same term in both or, or collapse it into one thing I don't know. 00:21:52,230 S4: Yeah. What I was trying to do is say, all right, Because the the people in the Boulder's condo association had asked for a similar report to Weston and Sampson's report regarding noise. And so what I was trying to say with the second one is higher noise might be okay if, you know, a professional report comes back with an analysis that shows it's in with reasonable ranges, and the other one is more tangible, you know, like we're going to put up panels or there'll be other design things that would change. Um, that was my distinction, but we could word it differently so it'd be put together. 00:22:34,050 S8: Yeah. I see what you're getting at. 00:22:35,210 S10: Yeah, I see what you're getting at. I think it might be confusing to the community, people who are looking at this. So because it is a question. So okay, if what is reasonably mitigated, if not the things that you're calling out in the next bullet. So maybe you could say can be reasonably mitigated, for example with measures such as blah blah, blah. And then you don't need two bullets. 00:23:07,590 S10: Right. And then you just pick up this clause such as et cetera. 00:23:11,430 S8: Mhm. 00:23:13,110 S4: Perfect. 00:23:14,350 S10: Does that does that work for you Tom. 00:23:17,710 S8: I think so. Let me read it carefully. 00:23:29,310 S8: I think for example should come after measures or just move to somewhere. I'm not sure if that's the right place. 00:23:47,550 S10: Because I guess the point is you're not necessarily going to do them all. You might choose 1 or 2. It's not. Um. 00:23:56,080 S8: Mhm. 00:23:57,360 S10: Mitigated with. Well yeah I think for example and such as. Or possibly including maybe just replace all those four words with possibly including or. 00:24:08,720 S8: Mhm. 00:24:09,280 S10: Potentially such as or something. 00:24:12,720 S12: Right. 00:24:13,240 S10: Otherwise it's the same thing. 00:24:14,560 S8: It's a little better. Yeah. 00:24:26,560 S4: Everybody good with that. 00:24:30,680 S11: I think I'm relatively new. So I apologize if this is a repeat question from before, but um, I just have a question in general when it comes to this type of a survey where you said you've run it before. Have we done any sort of like, looked into any sort of studies that actually show the correlation of sound that comes from certain activities, so that if anybody was to come back and rebuttal it or ask, we have something to like reference to say like, well, you know, based on our research, one does not make more noise in another or it does. Um, just something I was thinking about as a, as a, as a neighbor, I could see it being, you know, for somebody, I could see how that would be a matter of concern. So just a just general question. 00:25:14,700 S4: Yeah. So, um, we have not done any studies yet. We do have studies that have been done, especially regarding pickleball. So pickleball, um, and more recently has been studied. And in Beverly, they uh, are doing some studies over there with their pickleball courts. The problem is when you take you can't just take a study that someone else has done and put it right into this area because topography changes. Um. 00:25:50,670 S1: You know, uh. 00:25:51,990 S4: Plants, there are different things that could change where the noise goes. Like how things are constructed. And so. 00:26:01,990 S4: In my opinion, we can't go by someone else's study on a different site. You can kind of maybe get a range, but you can't. There's no guarantee that that is enough of a qualifier to make a decision from. 00:26:17,870 S11: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 00:26:20,750 S4: Great. All right. So next. Would you support reasonable operating restrictions if they allowed a recreational use to coexist with nearby residences? Um, examples could include defined operating hours or other forcible restrictions. 00:26:44,270 S8: I think that one's just a different way of saying what the previous one said. Right. I mean, it's sort of like, you know, and I think the hard thing about this is, like you said, with these studies and everything, it's almost like you need an example for people to with noise, for people that like, even if every place is different, like a before and after of a specific function, like pickleball, you know what? Because it's it's not going to go from noisy to silent. Right. But you know, it's it's kind of hard to predict even just seeing, you know, decibel numbers. You know, what life would be like. 00:27:23,650 S4: Yeah. I think why I put this one in is because about two years ago, the Selectboard had approved the pickleball use within certain hours. So there was a restriction put on there. Um, so that's why I added this one in separately. But if you if it's a little repetitive, we could actually just take the whole thing out. 00:27:47,540 S8: Well, it's a it is a little different. Maybe if it was more specifically said that like operating restrictions maybe mean operating hours restriction, you know, or something. 00:28:01,500 S8: I think that I think that's kind of implied, but I think it might be a little better if it was actually spelled out. 00:28:08,660 S4: So right here. Um, operating. 00:28:13,460 S8: Or even limited operating hours, you know, or something. 00:28:16,900 S13: In the examples part of it down below. 00:28:20,380 S8: Mhm. Yeah. 00:28:25,060 S4: Yeah. I mean I know another restriction that was mentioned years ago was, you know, locking the courts at 7:00 and, and, and so there were other restrictions. That's not really an enforceable restriction. We don't have the staff to be right every single day locking and opening, um, tennis courts. But I was trying to think of another example of other restrictions. 00:28:48,840 S12: Um. 00:28:49,880 S4: So I don't know if I wanted to limit it up here in case someone else thought of, like, another restriction that could help these minds. 00:29:01,720 S4: Okay, if it's confusing, we can just take it out. I don't know how important it is. 00:29:08,520 S8: Yeah, I think the tough thing is it's it's asking people to support something. Yeah, I think that's the tough part. You know, it sounds like. Okay, I agree without really knowing enough, that's the way I feel about it. 00:29:23,040 S10: Right. Or assuming that they'd be enforceable. 00:29:26,760 S8: Yeah. 00:29:28,400 S13: So would we consider dropping this one then? 00:29:36,680 S13: I think we could. 00:29:38,240 S8: Yeah. 00:29:38,760 S1: Yeah. 00:29:39,970 S13: Okay. 00:29:40,810 S4: Perfect. Um, which potential measures should the town consider if needed? If needed to reduce impacts on nearby properties? Select all that apply. So this will be another one of those boxes. And then people can select as many as they want. Defined operating hours daytime only use. Actually we don't let people there at night. I'll take that one out. 00:30:04,050 S12: Right. 00:30:04,850 S4: Acoustic fencing and screens. Landscaping or vegetative buffers. Facility design or orientation to reduce noise limits on certain activities. Posted rules and enforcement. Professional noise. Acoustic study. Parking or traffic measures. None. Or then we'd have a box for other. 00:30:28,770 S13: Professional noise and acoustic study is very different from actual measures. 00:30:36,370 S8: Yeah. 00:30:41,310 S8: Right? 00:30:42,150 S4: Um, yeah. So what I was trying to get at is, do people think when it says this study, do people think we should be paying for this as a town? Um, and then the measures would be, okay. 00:31:03,910 So should we be putting up the screens and all that stuff on if the pickleball went through? Should we be putting up the screens that go around the fences? S13: If we keep that, should we put it at the top of the list? 00:31:07,910 S4: Um. 00:31:09,230 This one? S2: No. 00:31:09,710 S13: The study. 00:31:11,470 S1: Okay. 00:31:13,550 S4: Can do that. 00:31:20,670 S4: Do you want me to put acoustic fencing in screen second, to keep it kind of together? 00:31:27,750 S12: Sure. 00:31:28,750 S4: Okay. Do that. Okay. Which statement comes closest to your view about how the town should approach the decision? Give greatest consideration to the option with the strongest overall community support provided, significant impacts can be reasonably addressed. 00:31:54,680 S4: Give greater consideration to minimising impacts on nearby residential properties. Give greater consideration to expanding recreational opportunities for the broader community. Seek a balance between providing recreational opportunities and limiting impacts on nearby properties. Or I need more information before deciding. 00:32:26,480 S4: Comments. 00:32:30,680 S13: I think that's a pretty good list. 00:32:35,820 S1: Hey. 00:32:37,540 S4: Would you be interested in attending a community workshop about the future of the Pingree Park Court area? So I just said yes in person, virtually either format, maybe? No. Um, what information would be most useful to you at the community workshop? So possible site layout so we can get that together. Recreational options. We can get that together. Estimated construction cost, estimated maintenance costs. We can get rough estimates of that noise information. Examples of similar facilities in other communities. Traffic and parking. Property boundary zoning and setbacks. Trees. Environmental considerations, recreation demand and anticipated use. Potential funding sources or other. 00:33:20,660 S13: All of the above. But actually, recreational demand and anticipated use might be very hard for our committee to to be able to come up with it would be ideal. 00:33:35,910 S13: Funding sources. Good. 00:33:39,270 S10: I do think in all of the above. Maybe other. You can just write in all of the above. 00:33:46,990 S13: Other or all, they're very good. Um. 00:33:52,270 S13: One thing I was thinking, if you were doing this has been a very thorough. I see where our. Now. I think we're on six of six, so that's good. It's a very long survey, but are we able to also provide the inventory of what we already have? For instance, there are, you know, pickleball courts at the high school, at Patton Park, at West Winton Park, at the tea House. Other things like that, so that people know, again, how many tennis courts we have and that sort of thing. 00:34:31,050 Do we have that list like almost an information sheet that could go along with the survey? S4: I would have to look at Survey Monkey. Um, I've never done that before. What we could do is there is this summary part at the beginning. 00:34:41,010 S12: And. 00:34:41,250 S13: Provide a link. 00:34:42,530 S8: Yeah, a link would be good. 00:34:43,810 S13: We could provide a link in there that says this is the existing infrastructure of the town. Towns. Plural. 00:34:52,050 S1: Okay. 00:34:53,210 S4: Great idea. 00:35:00,130 S1: Okay. 00:35:02,970 S4: Is there a recreational use or idea for this area that we have not included? 00:35:09,290 S10: Is that even possible? 00:35:11,170 S1: Yeah. 00:35:12,690 S4: Hey, I haven't seen water park. I'm surprised there's no. 00:35:15,330 S1: Yeah, I'm. 00:35:15,850 S10: Just wondering if you really want an open ended. 00:35:17,970 S12: Question with that. Right. 00:35:20,850 S13: I think we already did say, you know, other we kind of asked that question earlier, and we're not. 00:35:27,730 S4: All right. I'm not going to get my splash pad, I think. Um, do you have any additional comments, questions or concerns about the future of Pingree Park Court area? And would you like to receive information about the upcoming Pingree Park Community Workshop in September? And I would put in the date once we figured that out next time. 00:35:48,710 S12: Okay. 00:35:50,550 S1: Good. 00:35:51,270 S13: This is going out. This will go out in advance. I see. 00:35:54,630 S1: This. 00:35:54,830 S4: Will go. 00:35:55,190 S1: Out. 00:35:55,630 S4: Hopefully tomorrow. 00:35:58,950 S8: Then do you think you would send it out again, like at the beginning of September for. 00:36:02,430 S12: People. 00:36:02,750 S8: Who have been away? 00:36:03,830 S1: Yeah, yeah. 00:36:04,310 S4: I will do a weekly push. There we go. And I do the push at different times. So, you know, it gets to the stay at home mom or dad's and it gets to, you know, the after work. And it gets to people that go on social media mid-day. And so we I try to change it up. 00:36:27,080 S1: Okay. 00:36:28,880 S4: So now we just need to figure out a date. 00:36:33,280 S13: What are the Saturdays? Uh, Kate, did you get information on athletic programs, schedules, and when might be. 00:36:45,720 S4: Yeah, I only, um, texted Sean Timmons today. Actually, let me see if he answered. And I didn't see it. 00:36:56,560 S4: I didn't get an answer from him yet, but, um, does anybody on the call know? I think soccer is the big sport, right? In the spring. 00:37:08,400 S10: In the fall. 00:37:09,520 S12: Or the spring. I mean, it's. 00:37:10,720 S4: I mean, in the. 00:37:11,200 S1: Fall. 00:37:12,080 S7: Yeah. Thank you. 00:37:12,960 S12: Yeah. 00:37:13,640 S10: Big all the time, but. Yeah. 00:37:15,520 S4: Does anybody know when they generally. So I know in Amesbury it's in the afternoon on a Saturday. Does anybody on the call know that. 00:37:24,520 S10: When I was coaching. It was during the week as well on those fields, but I don't know what they do now. 00:37:32,540 S4: Let me see really quickly. 00:37:36,980 S13: I'm wondering about Sundays. 00:37:41,180 S13: As in afternoon. Not morning, but to 3:00. Type of Sunday. 00:37:52,820 S13: Mid September. 00:38:04,580 S4: I'm just looking at their registration page to see if they have anything. 00:38:08,220 S6: Can you describe a little bit as to what the community event would be? What are we talking about? 00:38:13,860 S4: Yeah, we'll do a tour of the park. And so my idea is that I am going to do a mailing for the abutters that are within 1000ft of the park. And so that's about 101 residences. So we'll get that out to the most local community. And basically we'll meet at a designated area. Um, I will have a lot of nice pictures and stuff of things that we can do. Um, we'll have a talk of where we've been so far, kind of like a quick overview, and then we'll really just have a community discussion on what people want, um, in the area. 00:38:59,550 S8: So but that could be difficult to do outside. I mean, if you had it on a Saturday, could it then move to a meeting space in the library right across the street where you'd have the discussion there? I mean, I suppose it depends on turnout. If you only get a dozen people, it's not going to be too much of a problem. 00:39:18,110 S12: Mm. 00:39:18,390 S10: Well, also weather dependent. So. 00:39:21,130 S12: Yeah. 00:39:28,050 S4: Okay. So it says for soccer it is on Saturday. It doesn't say what time here. 00:39:36,410 S13: After first based on the age group. 00:39:41,530 S8: Mhm. 00:39:42,330 S13: But pretty much would be most of all the afternoons. 00:39:48,850 S13: Uh except maybe later, you know, something like a 4:00 type prime where many of the games may be over by then. 00:39:56,730 S12: Mhm. 00:39:57,730 S10: Well you're going to have practices during the week too. So I'm not sure that planning this around the soccer schedule is really going to help you much. Other than Sunday I think that those fields are pretty well used. 00:40:11,490 S12: Yeah. 00:40:11,770 S13: That's what I was thinking. 00:40:13,370 S4: Is the. 00:40:13,730 S1: Library. 00:40:14,770 S4: Open Sunday? 00:40:18,010 S4: I do like Tom's idea of. 00:40:19,540 S1: Going over to the. 00:40:20,180 S12: Library. 00:40:20,540 S8: The library is generally closed, so I don't think I. 00:40:23,460 S12: Know. 00:40:23,660 S10: It would have to be Saturday, but then you wouldn't have to. I mean, if you're in the library, you don't have to worry about the soccer fields. 00:40:37,180 S13: Well, most of I mean, we're going to have the event so that people could come tour and could talk about ideas. But really, um, the survey is how we get most of our input. 00:40:50,180 S12: Mm. 00:40:57,260 S13: I'm just looking. 00:40:57,980 S12: At. 00:40:58,780 S10: The meeting in the evening. I'm sorry, Ernest, if you're going to be indoors. 00:41:17,460 S13: Just looking at a calendar. Um, you know, you don't want to be in the first week of September. So Sundays are 13th and 20th. It gets us in the middle of September, and a Saturday is a possibility if we find out that the schedules, uh, really allow more people, you know, maybe at a later in the afternoon. 00:41:47,640 S4: We don't want to do September 13th. That's Rosh Hashanah. 00:41:51,880 S13: Thank you. 00:41:53,080 S12: Okay. 00:41:54,080 S8: Um, the other possibility is, you know, the library. I don't think the library is open as late on Saturday as it is during the week. Right. So if you moved it to Monday, you know, you could have a 6:00 meet up and. 00:42:08,200 S12: Or. 00:42:08,960 S8: Something like that. The library is. 00:42:12,360 S11: The library's only open till eight Tuesday through Thursday until eight. 00:42:15,530 S12: Yeah. 00:42:16,970 S11: They're really only open till five. I think Monday, Friday. And then they're open till four on Saturdays. 00:42:22,650 S10: If you want parents to come. It's. I know it's always dicey in the evening, but. 00:42:27,210 S12: Yeah. 00:42:27,530 S10: That's also some trade offs that we're facing here where you're not going to get everybody. 00:42:35,010 S12: Right. 00:42:35,570 S10: When you know you're gonna have to pick a time. 00:42:39,890 S4: And if we do the library, we could have some activities for kids. So we could say, you can bring your children and we can have some activities for kids ready to go. 00:42:55,290 S10: Yeah, we did that with the charrette for the master plan. And I think it worked out okay. 00:43:03,010 S4: I actually think now that I'm thinking about it, because I was pretty convinced a weekend day would be better. But now that I'm thinking about it, people are still enjoying summer in September. You know, they might not want to take their weekend to go to this. 00:43:15,950 S12: Mhm. Okay. 00:43:19,310 S13: Uh, Kate, I see Barbara has a hand up and perhaps she's has something to add to this discussion. Barbara you're on mute. 00:43:28,350 S10: Thank you. 00:43:29,310 S3: Um. 00:43:31,230 S10: Um, Bobby Markowitz from the boulders and I did collect, um. 00:43:37,710 S14: The suggestions that were submitted by our residents and made a list of them, and I didn't see all of them on the list. So I would really appreciate it if before you put the survey out for the public, we compared the list that you have with the list that I have, so that we can add in those that you might have inadvertently left off. 00:44:03,430 S12: Um. 00:44:04,750 S4: That sounds great, Barbara. Um, could you email me what you have and I will make sure that it's in there? 00:44:10,310 S14: I certainly will. 00:44:11,710 S4: Great. Thank you. 00:44:12,600 S10: Is it possible that the committee could hear the list or what's missing right now? 00:44:17,600 S14: Okay. Um, you know, it was up for a brief time, so I hope I didn't make any mistakes. Um, so, uh, besides, the senior playground, uh, was suggested an outdoor calisthenics and fitness station for adults of all ages. So I think that focusing just on seniors might not be somebody's favorite, but we might want to consider that. Um, there were a few ideas under the heading of Community Gathering area. And, um, some of them were activity tables for mahjong or card games, uh, and or and printed tops for board games such as chess or checkers. Um. 00:45:09,040 S14: Ping pong tables. Apparently there's something concrete. Ping pong tables that are exist in many municipalities, and players could bring their own paddles. Um, I didn't see a dog park. Um, and I, I haven't really noticed, but I think that the whole Pingree Park. You're supposed to keep your dogs on a leash, but I'm not 100% sure of that, and it seems that people don't. So possibly having an enclosed, uh, dog park, uh, then you could enforce people having their dogs off leash outside of that and to provide a social environment. I didn't see that on the list. Um. 00:45:59,580 S14: Um. 00:46:00,380 S4: Barbara, I'll just answer that for you. 00:46:02,340 S12: Um, okay. 00:46:03,420 S4: There there is no leash law in Wenham, so dogs are allowed to be off leash. Oscillation when I'm. And, um. When we were working on the West wind um, park, it had come to our attention that the DPW, uh, didn't have the manpower to maintain a dog park. They get pretty messy. Um, so that's why we did not consider a dog park. But if the Open Space and Rec committee would like me to put that back in, I'm happy to. 00:46:28,760 S12: Okay. Um. 00:46:31,640 S14: Okay. Go ahead. And then there were some other recreation options. I think we did see bocce ball. Did you have a climbing wall? Um. 00:46:44,240 S12: Or. 00:46:45,440 S14: Um, I don't know what a P6 ball is, but I don't I don't know whether I saw that on the list either, but that was all in suggestions that were submitted, I believe, to the committee, because if I got Ahold of them, somebody else had them, too. 00:47:00,760 S12: Okay. So. 00:47:02,080 S14: Uh, I'd be happy to submit this to you. Um, Just, um. I'll. I'll find your your email address. 00:47:12,490 S4: Yes. I'll put my email address in the chat. And, Ruth, I saw your examples as well. And I will make sure to add those. I have already written them down. Okay. Thank you for adding that. 00:47:24,850 S12: Yep. 00:47:26,050 S13: I do know that there's bocce at the Council of Aging, uh, facility over on School Street. 00:47:40,850 Uh, or by the, um, what is the future school? S13: Um, okay. And, Kate. So how are we doing on a date? Are we? If we come to some understanding on whether it's going to be on a. 00:48:02,050 S, uh, Saturday or Sunday or on a weeknight? S4: Um, I believe Bianca had said that the library is only open till eight Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, so if we wanted to do a midweek event, I think that would be probably the best. But I'm open. 00:48:18,350 S12: To. 00:48:18,550 S1: Anything. 00:48:18,950 S4: The group wants to do. 00:48:21,030 S13: And by the library we mean in the gathering space through the library. 00:48:29,390 And is that only available when the library is open? S8: Yes, that's my understanding. 00:48:32,230 S13: Thanks, Tom. 00:48:33,430 S4: And maybe we should do two dates if we are going to do the library just to make sure that, um, it's not already booked for something else, right? 00:48:41,990 S12: Yeah. 00:48:43,350 S4: And I still think we should start at the park, do a little tour, and then we can all just walk over to the library. 00:48:50,630 S13: I think that would be ideal. 00:48:51,910 S12: Yeah. 00:48:54,790 S4: All right. So. 00:48:58,990 S4: In September, I don't want to do a Tuesday when the select board is on, and I don't know the dates for their meeting that month yet because there's an extra week in September, so sometimes things change. Then you don't know yet, right? If you're. 00:49:18,840 S1: There. 00:49:19,360 S15: As far as, um, I'm sorry, as far as our September dates. 00:49:22,880 S1: Yes. 00:49:24,760 S15: I do. Let me just take a look. 00:49:27,240 S4: Thank you. 00:49:31,520 S15: Um. 00:49:34,680 S15: Well. 00:49:38,600 S15: Actually, I, I have on my calendar that it's tentative what? The September dates are so afraid. I don't don't have that. 00:49:49,560 S4: We might want to just consider Wednesdays and Thursdays. 00:49:55,000 S1: Um. 00:49:57,800 S4: Wednesday, September 23rd. I cannot do for meetings. 00:50:05,060 S13: So earlier. Six. 16. 17. 00:50:10,220 S4: 16. 16th or 17th. Both work for me. So Wednesday and Thursday. And I could probably also say the 24th works for me. 00:50:21,580 S12: Mhm. 00:50:25,740 S13: Right around that time frame or people are back. 00:50:28,260 S10: That works for me because the planning board I think will be the ninth that and not the 16th. 00:50:33,020 S1: So yeah. 00:50:34,140 S4: I'm looking at your calendar too. 00:50:36,180 S1: And. 00:50:37,500 S4: And we will have one more meeting which is great. So we can finalize the community event. So we'll have one more meeting and I'll bring my ideas. And then we can tweak it to make it a great event for all. 00:50:49,940 S12: Okay. 00:50:50,300 S4: So I will bring those three dates, uh, to the library Director Kim, and see what works. And I will send out the information. I'll get that survey out tomorrow. And then if anybody is on the call, the survey will be on the, um, and wants anybody that's on the call that wants to do the survey. The survey will be on our main web page under the news items. So you'll have a link and you'll be able to click right on to it and do the survey yourself. 00:51:17,350 S10: Thank you Kate. And I'm going to drop now. I'm sorry to have to leave early but just life has interfered. 00:51:25,190 S4: So thank you Ann. 00:51:27,030 S10: I appreciate everyone's attendance. And, um. 00:51:31,190 S12: Uh. 00:51:32,110 S10: I think this would be good. Thanks. Bye. 00:51:34,590 S12: Thank you. 00:51:36,350 S15: Excuse me. Kate. 00:51:39,590 S12: Ben. Go ahead. 00:51:40,790 S15: Oh, hi. Thank you. Um, so the Select board meetings in September are actually going to be on the Tuesday the eighth and Tuesday the 22nd. So if, if, um, if Tuesday the 15th or Tuesday the 29th where it dates that you wanted to add to the mix. Those are not select board dates. 00:52:02,530 S4: Okay. And I can do the 15th and the 29th as well. So if that works for everybody else, it's best to give Kim more dates. 00:52:10,450 S12: Yeah. 00:52:11,690 S4: Um, what time do we want to start this at? And thank you. Ben. 00:52:17,290 S6: 15 doesn't work for me, Kate. 00:52:20,170 S4: The 15th doesn't work. All right. We won't do that date. So I've got the 16th, the 17th, the 24th. The 29th. I'll get that information out to everybody tomorrow. 00:52:40,050 And we want to start this at a 6:00 time frame or ready? What do you think? S13: That sounds fine. 00:52:41,850 S6: I think it's going to be getting dark at 6:00. I think sunset is earlier than six. And that late in September. 00:52:52,530 S13: That early that early in September. 00:52:55,500 S6: Well, yeah, I mean, it's. 00:53:00,540 S4: Let me, um. 00:53:01,580 S13: Let's go for 530. 00:53:03,540 S1: Okay. 00:53:05,100 S13: Five tend to be too early for a lot of people, right? 00:53:09,340 S16: Yeah. I would, uh, speaking somewhat for myself, but I think five is really difficult for most of the people I know who commute in, especially from the city. 00:53:17,660 S12: Yeah. 00:53:18,580 S4: Yeah. And it says on September 16th, 2026, The Sun will set in Wenham at approximately 7:04 p.m.. So I think a 530. 00:53:27,260 S6: Okay. 00:53:28,340 S4: We'll be fine. 00:53:30,660 S6: Oh four. 00:53:31,380 S1: Okay. 00:53:32,940 S4: All right. I've got my marching orders and and. 00:53:36,820 S13: Um, with and not on the call any longer, I think that we will postpone, uh, the meeting minutes, review and approval till next meeting. 00:53:47,940 S1: Great. 00:53:51,500 S6: Is there time for a few comments from the public. 00:53:55,160 S4: I have one minute. 00:53:57,040 S13: Well, yeah, I do have a hard stop. Not. I postpone the water Commission meeting till 630 so I can stay for a little while. But please go ahead. 00:54:06,720 S12: Well thank you. 00:54:07,320 S6: So, David Miller representing the boulders and, um. 00:54:12,760 S6: And I sent around a package which I believe you all got. And I hope you take a close look at it and understand what our position is, uh, on several different things, but I'd like to make a statement so no one is unclear as to where the boulder stand. Um, the Boulder residents oppose and will oppose pickleball, a skate park. 00:54:33,360 S12: Basically, that. 00:54:34,200 S13: We we have a good understanding of the boulders position. 00:54:38,120 S12: I mean. 00:54:39,000 S13: I mean, to cut you off, but, I mean, we have reviewed and circulated the earlier correspondence from Bob Forcella as well as the slide deck that you provided. 00:54:50,080 S6: All right. Well thank you. The other thing I wanted to comment on was, um, we had hoped that pickleball would not be included as well as skate park in the survey. And the reason we say that is because ultimately, if it comes out as favorable in the survey, you will have to do a consulting study on the noise, um, and that that activity, pickleball in particular will fail a consulting study. And so rather than get everyone fired up about the possibility of pickleball at, uh, Pingree Park, um, it would make sense to do that study in advance of the survey. Um, and in the case of the Wellesley study, which Weston and Sampson did, um, that was paid for by CPA funds, this is the kind of thing CPA wants to know about before they put money in for construction. That is, what is the approval process or the of the sentiment of, of, uh, or the reality of, uh, this activity. And as I said, pickleball 100 foot from people's residences will not pass any sort of consulting study. And secondarily, there actually is a noise ordinance within Wenham and that says that noise cannot exceed 70dB 100 foot from um, a property. And um, or I think it's ten decibels less than ambient. So it won't pass that either, because as the Weston and Sampson study shows, pickleball is 70 to 200dB at 100ft, so those things will make it a non-starter in terms of a location at Pingree Park. And so rather than put it out there in front of people as if it was an actual possibility, it's not an actual possibility. And so I think it's a misrepresentation of the situation. 00:56:33,430 S12: Okay. 00:56:34,510 S13: Thank you. 00:56:35,550 S6: Yeah. 00:56:38,270 S4: Do we have a motion. 00:56:39,110 S1: To. 00:56:39,230 S4: Adjourn? Ernest? I'm sorry, I have to go. 00:56:41,950 S13: You do? Okay. Um, then I'll make the motion to adjourn. And. Tom or Tom? Second and Tom. 00:56:52,760 S12: Yeah. Tom Skinner. 00:56:54,880 S1: And. 00:56:55,320 S4: Lou is here, too. 00:56:56,120 S2: Lou says yes. 00:56:57,200 S12: Okay. 00:56:57,760 S13: Thank you. Lou and Tom. Sorry. 00:57:01,080 S8: Yes. If you didn't raise my hand. 00:57:03,000 S13: All right. 00:57:03,400 S8: Very good. 00:57:04,200 S12: Okay. 00:57:04,520 S13: All right. I appreciate everyone's interest in this program. And, Kate, I especially appreciate the amount of work that you have done to be able to prepare, you know, for a meeting and for a survey. So I think you see the processes moving along. It's had some fits and starts, but I think, uh, we're going to make a good effort to bring something to the community that will be, uh, acceptable, uh, to all the people in the, the area. So, um, again, I appreciate everybody's interest in the committee's meeting, and I think we'll go ahead and close for the day. 00:57:42,520 S12: All right. 00:57:43,000 S4: Thank you all. 00:57:43,640 S2: Thank you. 00:57:44,160 S13: Okay. 00:57:44,560 S12: Thank you.