00:00:00,080 S1: Calling to order the June 22nd meeting of the Windham Conservation Commission. The meeting is being recorded, so please keep that in mind when you make your comments. Um, we are strictly virtual tonight. Um, so there's a raise hand feature, um, at the bottom of your screen or should be under the react button. Um, if you raise your hand, I'll recognize you. Um, and allow you to make your comment. Um, please don't speak unless you're called on. Um, in attendance for the conservation commission tonight is, uh, Jackie LeClaire, Jeff Hamm, Leo Mastroianni, Ken Whitaker and myself. Phil, call or so. Margaret. Thanks for, uh, pinch hitting for Kate. And take it away. 00:00:49,600 S2: Um, so tonight's continued public hearing is on 255 Grapevine Road. That's the Gordon College project that you're probably all familiar with. Um, I believe the applicant might want to do the presentation. Jacob, is that you? 00:01:04,000 S1: Yes. 00:01:04,280 S3: I can at least start us off. 00:01:06,560 S2: Okay. All right. I'll allow you to, um, present. So let me start my share, and you should be able to jump in a second. 00:01:19,000 S3: Okay. I would see that. Yeah. 00:01:23,319 S2: Here it is. 00:01:23,719 S3: Yeah. Okay. Good evening. I'm Jacob Murray from Waterfield Design Group. We are the civil engineer and the landscape architect on the Adam Center for music project for Gordon College. 255 Grapevine Road. Also with us tonight is Chris Heming from Gordon College, Amanda Delevingne and Robert Picard from EJ architects, I believe Deborah Mowry and Ethan Butler from Acting Center, the project manager, and I believe a representative. I'm not sure if it's Jordan Keenan or someone else from Walsh Brothers who is the contractor here as well. Uh, the project, as you guys might be familiar with, it has a DEP number, is the removal of existing courtyards, walkways and a landscape area, and replacing with a new proposed atom center for music and its associated walkways and utilities. You can see the rendering of the building on the screen right now that we kind of worked through that last time. So that's just generally what the book was going to look like. This is the existing conditions just to show that we're within the 200 foot buffer of the koi pond, but we are in generally outside of the 100 foot buffer and with the exception of some landscape plantings to re vegetate these areas down here, we're outside of the 50 and foot, no build, 50 foot no work and the 70 foot no build. So the new building is approximately 14,800ft², and it will go into the general landscape area. And then there'll be some patios. These walkways will be reconfigured so that they can move out for the building. And there'll be a streamline of pedestrian traffic, mostly pedestrian traffic going along the paved avenue, which is required for student, pedestrian as well as for emergency vehicles. We originally presented on April 27th before the Conservation Commission with what seemed like generally favorable response. The next steps after that meeting were to have a peer review of the stormwater design, provide, uh, a response to the Hamilton Dark Hamilton Windham dark skies comments letter and provide construction and logistics plans. Uh, we have done those. We have. We received the peer review on June 11th. We provided a response letter and revised drawings and stormwater report on June 17th. Uh, we haven't heard back yet, but in our letter and plans, uh, we addressed all their comments, made some small changes to the stormwater system, expanded it a couple chambers, uh, and created an infiltration, a clean out area. Uh, but we addressed it. The only one that was really outstanding was a mounting analysis, which we don't feel, given the soils is necessary. But we could be and it could all be taken care of with a test pit before construction that goes down another ten inches from where we have where, I think we'll find that we don't have groundwater and therefore that's not necessary. So the stormwater is also just outside. Just do you remember your location here? This is the 200 foot buffer zone going through the building. The stormwater improvements are out here outside of the 200 foot buffer as well. So again we provided a response to the dark sky comments. And I can just go down briefly to take a look showing general illumination plans. And if you need to, Amanda or Robert can speak to these a little bit more. And then we also have a construction logistics plan provided by Walsh Brothers that shows how they plan on getting stuff in and out and protect the work zone area. And this will be modified as the as necessary during construction as well, to make sure things are contained in the smallest amount of area necessary for that phase of construction. So with that, the applicant is really seeking to get approval tonight. And we have Zeba on Wednesday and hope to be moving forward with the project. 00:05:10,610 S1: Could you go over in a little bit more detail the the changes in the stormwater and. Yeah, resulting from the Western and Samson comments? 00:05:18,730 S3: Yes, absolutely. So the ones there was a lot of uh, just to give a note, I know some people might see that I'm going to bring this up here just because I think it's it's helpful. Um, this was it was the 13 page document. But just so you know, like this whole page here is just West and Samson quoting the regulations. And then at the end of it they have, they have three small two comments. So it's not really as, as involved as it might seem. So if I when I say, you know, they're really just these small changes. Um, it's because a lot of the document itself from Western Samson is them just re quoting yours or the state regulations here. So but let me go back to here. So they wanted us to also include the 25 and 50 year storms. And that would end up happening is we had to increase the chambers here by about by eight chambers at the end. Uh, that was a change that you can see in the drawings. There is also a what's called a isolator row, where you put down a fabric underneath the chambers themselves, and they'll be clean out holes above those. And that's where it's an easier place for sediment to be factored out. It's also what happens is you actually isolate the row. So the first flush, uh, you get an inch of rain. All that inch of rain will go in here. But if there's an overflow with an inlet control structure, that'll fill up all the other chambers. If there's a really bad storm, you're getting six, you know, 5 or 6in of rain. So that was included. So that's easy to clean out. Other than that really in what you can see. I mean, there's a lot more notes that were added to the stormwater report. Uh, but other than that, that was the big change with the stormwater. 00:06:52,899 S1: And one of the comments was that the drawings are not stamped by an engineer. 00:06:57,060 S3: Is that they've been stamped. So. 00:07:01,060 S1: Okay. Um. Can you. Can you speak to the or have someone speak to the lighting issues? 00:07:08,579 S3: Man, if you want to, I can. 00:07:10,139 S2: So I'm sorry if I just, um. Jacob. Sorry. The plan that we're looking at right now. Is there a stamp on that plan? 00:07:17,019 S3: No, this is this is graphic. This is, um. This is just because it was a graphic plan. But if you want. I mean, if you look down, I have them all here. Uh, here's the actual plan. 00:07:26,420 S2: Okay. Okay, thanks. 00:07:32,379 S3: So here, Amanda, this is the. I don't know if you want to start on that. 00:07:37,339 S4: Sure. So, um, in response to the letter from h w dark Sky, um, we commented, starting with, um, the directionality of the lights. So all of the new lights which are being provided are all pointed downward and fully shielded. The only light which is not fully shielded is an existing campus standard bollard. Um, those are all existing fixtures that are going to be relocated as part of the project. So there will be no new, um, lights which are not fully shielded and pointed downward. The only other exception to this is the tree up lights, which I think you can see are casting some of the light and shadow onto the building itself in the lower renderings. Those are accent lights, which would only be used during, um, special events and performances in the hall. They wouldn't be generally used for illumination. Um, otherwise, all of the new fixtures are meeting the um, 2700 Kelvin. Um, and they're down in shielded. We also provided the photoelectric um photometric plan, which is, a new addition, as well as the cut sheets for all of the fixtures and the fixture schedule. 00:09:02,149 S1: Um, okay, we'll go around, I think. I'm sorry. 00:09:05,070 S4: Sorry. Just one more piece, which was, um, commented on was also the light spill from the performance hall window itself. And so, um, we just wanted to also note that the performance hall glazing is oriented southward, which is towards the center of the campus, so it is not facing directly to the pond or the sensitive habitats to the north. Um, there are also intervening buildings between this proposed building and the pond area, the Philips Music Center behind it, and the can also in Science Center to the east. Um, there are also going to be, um, motorized draperies which can be utilized in the hall, which are blackout, fully blackout for all of the portion of the light to the south. 00:09:55,750 S3: Okay. 00:09:56,990 S1: Um, so we'll go around for questions. Uh, we'll start with Leo. 00:10:01,429 S5: Uh, Mr. Chairman, uh, I read the our peer reviewers report, and he brought up a quite a number of issues, and I read the applicant's response. But until until until I read our peer review is, uh, answer to the applicant's response. I will not vote for approval. So, uh, I will not vote for approval until I get the peer, our peer reviewers, our response to their to their response, because we have we have quite a bit of, uh, of investment into our peer review. And I want to make sure that everything's perfect. Before I vote approval. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 00:10:55,470 S1: Okay. Uh, Jeff. Uh. No questions. Jackie. 00:11:08,830 S2: Sorry. No questions. 00:11:11,549 S1: Ken. Uh. 00:11:12,870 S6: Two things. I think Leo has a point here. I'd like to know when we anticipate getting a, I guess, a review of the response. Any any ideas on how long that will take? 00:11:25,950 S2: Um, Phil, if I might, we send that to them to, uh, Weston and Sampson. I think just the other day when we got their review. Okay. When we got their response. So it may take a couple more days. We haven't heard anything back yet, so. 00:11:42,950 S6: Okay. 00:11:43,629 S2: Um, hoping by tomorrow. 00:11:45,789 S5: Mr. chairman, I like to move. We continue until we get our reviewer's Response. 00:11:50,669 S1: Okay, wait, Leo, we're not done asking questions. Um. Go ahead. Ken. Your second question. 00:11:55,870 S6: Yeah. The only question was on the clean house for the stormwater drains. Is there are there any, uh, scheduled, uh, maintenance programs in place, or is that just you keep an eye on it until such time it's not discharging. Well, and you have to go in and clean it out. How how how was the performance of those monitored in real time? 00:12:12,909 S3: Yeah, there's a there's a, uh, operation maintenance plan that's included in the stormwater report. And those are inspected every six months and cleaned out as necessary. 00:12:22,230 S6: Okay, great. Yeah. Uh, on the presumption that, uh, a little extra time will not impact the construction schedule here. Increased cost. I think it might be a good idea just to get the final review from our peer review and the lines that, uh, Leo had said, um, um, you know, we could also, you know, give approval pending. 00:12:45,110 S5: Waiting for a second the motion to wait for a second. 00:12:47,710 S6: I think it might be more prudent to do that. I'm open to input on that. 00:12:53,600 S1: Yeah, Leo winked at me. We're not done asking questions yet. Um, Jacob, could you refresh our memory on, um, the logistics of, um, you know, how things are going to move on the site and, um, again, point out the erosion control, and, um, you said things may change as needed, so could you maybe elaborate on that. 00:13:19,039 S3: Just to let you know that the, uh, what what's, uh, that the, um, this is this for construction is where where it will be when the building is starting off and when they're trying to do the excavation. But as things get inside the building, it can be locked down a little tighter, uh, as necessary. So, um, that's more talking about the logistics plan I can show you on the erosion control plan. Uh, in general, We go. Sorry. 00:13:53,159 S3: Colby. Let's go. Uh, keeping it tight to the the parking area and then around the edges. Obviously, a lot of the building itself. Will the existing Phillips building will be acting in that, that manner. Uh, and then the existing, uh, inlets will have to protect against that, against sediment entering the system. 00:14:14,960 S1: And, um, again, refresh my memory. Is there any stockpiling the material kind of landward of the building itself? 00:14:25,639 S3: Yeah. 00:14:26,879 S7: All right. 00:14:28,279 S3: The there. 00:14:30,600 S1: Is, as you're doing the construction and removing material or bringing in new material. 00:14:35,919 S3: This there would be there would be in general, it would be over, uh, within, outside of the building, but in the general site area. So you're looking at these areas for the, for the, uh, the state stockpiling. 00:14:48,399 S1: Okay, so outside of the 200 foot in. Yeah. Okay. Um, okay. And, um, I know you talked about some, um, the last meeting, some replant or planting of vegetation. Could you go over that again? Yeah. 00:15:08,919 S3: So we're taking down some trees within the building footprint, and we're we're meeting the requirement by planting new trees that are closer to the pond. So we're revegetation lawn areas. Uh, out, out along the internal Prince Muir Drive road. Um, with both in this parking area at the end of construction, around the generator and then down the slope to both stabilize that and really agitate that and make it more of a, of a pond friendly environment, even as you have the road that cuts across. 00:15:40,879 S1: And those are native trees. Yes. 00:15:43,480 S2: Um, Phil, just for your information, we did get comments back from the town's tree warden that he's comfortable with this plant, that there were no invasive species. 00:15:53,879 S1: Okay. 00:15:56,559 S1: And, um, I'm sorry, you said you're going to the EPA and two nights. Is that. 00:16:02,360 S3: On Wednesday? Correct? Yes. And so, I mean, the client, the applicant can speak to this a little bit more, but, uh, it is starting to impact the construction schedule. And we were hoping to get the peer review back, uh, quicker. We were able to turn it around and really our responses in about three business days. Uh, but, um, so, so, yes, it's, uh, it's that's our hope. It's the case to be able to get a contingent approval and then move on to CBA. 00:16:32,600 S5: Mr. chairman. 00:16:33,799 S1: Could you, could you discuss the your give me your optimal construction schedule and then give me you know, you're less than optimal if you can. You know what I mean? 00:16:46,129 S3: Others might be able to speak because I don't know if someone from Walsh is on. 00:16:50,690 S6: No one from. 00:16:51,330 S8: Walsh is on. But we are hoping to break ground late summer to be completed by the fall semester of 2028. 00:17:00,529 S1: Fall semester 2028. Okay, so, um, so that's the end point. So it's obviously going to impact the, um, 2027, um, academic year. 00:17:18,569 S5: Mr. chairman? 00:17:20,930 S1: Yes, Leo. 00:17:22,609 S5: We've we have granted their request, uh, three times already for continuance. I don't believe another continuance for a couple. Until we get a response from our peer review, we'll do that much damage. We could do much more damage by by approving a, uh, something that our peer reviewer might have questions on. So there's a motion on the table, Mr. chairman, I wish somebody would either either second it or make amend it either one. 00:17:53,730 S1: Well, I just want to get as much information as on the floor as possible before we vote, if that's okay with you, Leo. 00:18:02,930 S5: That's fine with me. But now peer review is brought. 00:18:06,769 S1: No, I I I hear your point. I hear your point. Um. 00:18:14,970 S1: I'm sorry. So. So the construction is over a year. Uh, over a year's time. A year and a half. Is that a fair. 00:18:22,650 S8: Two years construction period? 00:18:24,690 S1: Two years. Okay, so I think to Commissioner Whitaker's point, a, you know, a two week delay and a two year construction period is not probably not a fatal flaw. Um. 00:18:44,089 S2: Phil. Excuse me. Jackie and Amanda both have their hands up. I think Jackie's hand up was picking up first. 00:18:49,849 S1: Go ahead. Jackie. 00:18:51,250 S2: Yeah. Hi. I was just curious. Um, somebody mentioned the, uh, approval with contingency. What kind of verbiage would we consider for a contingency approval? 00:19:07,490 S1: Um, I think the verbiage would likely be pending the outcome of the response from Western and Sampson. Assuming that it's that they agree with all the, um, responses that they were given, um, that then the applicant could proceed. 00:19:26,410 S2: Okay. So, Leo, how would that sit with you? 00:19:28,650 S5: We've we've we've never done that in all the years I've been on the commission. Never, never done that. I think I think we need that. We need to hear the response from Weston and Sampson, who are the professionals that we trust. 00:19:43,779 S1: I am not a big fan of contingency approvals either. Um, Amanda, you have your hand up. Go ahead. 00:19:54,940 S4: Yes. Thank you. Um, I just would like to also add that in addition to the roughly two year construction schedule, we are hoping to start the enabling onsite prep in August before the students return so that they can come back to the campus. With the fencing up and the adjustments to the traffic patterns on the campus established, so that we can ensure pedestrian safety on the campus. So that is one of our concerns with starting earlier is that we can maintain those borders prior to students returning. 00:20:27,299 S1: Well, I would imagine you could start that process independent of the permit process, uh, at least from this, this commission. Um, so I don't see our ruling Impacting at least that part of the project. Um, from going forward. 00:20:47,019 S6: I would suggest that, uh, we just check with our peer review. Get a schedule from them. Uh, and, uh, you know, ask them to make sure that they get their comments back, uh, in enough time for us to review that and our next meeting. I think with that commitment, uh, we'll have certainty in the only delay of a week or two. I. And that will give us all a chance to review that, just to make sure their concerns have been adequately addressed. 00:21:12,779 S1: So the next meeting is scheduled for July 13th. So it would actually be. 00:21:19,900 S1: Yeah. Okay. Two weeks. Um, do I have a second on the motion, Mister Chairman? Yeah. Um, group B possible to call a special meeting once we receive, um, the report or the response from our peer reviewer. 00:21:42,059 S5: Um, Mr. Chairman? 00:21:44,019 S1: Yeah. Margaret. 00:21:45,299 S5: That was first also. 00:21:47,339 S1: Well, it wouldn't really be the first. We've done that before. But, Margaret, what is the, uh, what's the notification requirement? 00:21:56,539 S2: You essentially just need 48 hours. We'd have to post the meeting 48 hours in advance of it. So if you, you know, wanted to meet on, I don't know, a Thursday, we would have to post it by Tuesday. 00:22:10,740 S1: Okay. Or in theory, we could meet on on and we could do it. Well, I don't know. Margaret, what is your what is if if Kate is going to be out, what is your availability? 00:22:26,140 S2: Yeah. So, um, we're actually trying to, um, figure out Julie's schedule. The. There's not a big holiday, uh, the holidays on the fourth. So there's the third is the holiday, and we don't work that day anyway. So that week of the sixth through the 10th, um, is kind of open for Wednesday nights not available. Um, we're still not sure about Zeba and what what their, uh, schedule is going to look like. So, um, I think if you wanted to pick a Monday when your next meeting would be the 13th. So if assuming. Oh, we. Oh, it's only. Yeah, it's only the 22nd. We we should have that peer review back in a few days at the most. I mean, we'll, I'll contact them tomorrow and just see if we can give them a nudge. So if you wanted to meet, say, even on the, the 29th or the 30th, we could accommodate that just with a 48 hour window. 00:23:29,420 S1: Okay. On the 29th, I'm going to be, um, out on Martha's Vineyard. Oh, um, for work. Um, but Perhaps you could do something remotely quickly if need be. Um, sure. 00:23:46,309 S1: All right. So why don't. 00:23:49,069 S5: We continue three times? What's a what difference is a fourth? 00:23:54,430 S1: Well, well, Leo, we're. I think. 00:23:56,509 S5: Those things. 00:23:57,950 S1: We're we're not rushing things. Leo. 00:24:01,150 S5: We've had scores of applications and notices from from from the college. And we've always been very, very, uh, very accommodating for them. And let's do our job right and make sure our peer review is we doing our peer review as advisors. 00:24:17,710 S1: No one is suggesting anything else, Leo. So I think. 00:24:21,950 S5: There's a motion on the table, Mr. Chairman. 00:24:24,349 S1: The motion on the table is to. 00:24:26,470 S5: The second that or amended either one. Uh, amendment. Amendment. I have a call for, for for approval, but. 00:24:32,789 S1: I haven't heard anyone second or amendment, but I think Waiting on the peer review response is fine, and then determining when to schedule a vote on this application. Post that response. Um, I don't. I don't think we can guess that right now, because we don't know what the response is going to be. 00:25:01,150 S5: Or when it's going to be. 00:25:02,750 S1: Or when it's going to be. So I, um, but I'm open to being flexible. If we get a positive response from Weston and Sampson to allow the applicant, um, to move ahead. 00:25:18,589 S5: I am. 00:25:19,990 S1: So that's the best we can do. Jacob. Um, so can someone at the. 00:25:27,589 S3: Uh. We can, obviously. Any comments they have that requires a less, uh, you know, one more change to the drawings we can get in a day or two. That's no problem on our side. Um, we just. We just wish that they were getting it quicker to us. So yeah. 00:25:39,910 S1: Yeah. 00:25:40,789 S6: I would suggest that you check with our peer review and, uh, try to schedule something, uh, next week. That's convenient. Everybody. We can send out an email and allow 48 hours. I suggest we target next week just to get this done. 00:25:56,230 S1: Can someone second the original motion, please? 00:25:58,990 S5: I think, Mr. Chairman, I should reword the motion to to to continue to the next meeting or to a special meeting if we get a positive response from our peer reviewer. Does that sound better? 00:26:14,029 S1: That sounds fine. 00:26:17,589 S1: Um, did I hear a second? Second, yes. Okay. All in favor? Jackie. 00:26:24,190 S8: Yes. 00:26:25,549 S1: Ken. Yes. Jeff. Yes. Leo. 00:26:30,230 S5: Yes. 00:26:31,190 S1: I vote yes as well. 00:26:33,309 S2: Um, I could if I could ask a question. Um, so the main issue for your board or your committee is the peer review information. Have you any thoughts on the lighting plan or that you feel your permit wants to condition that at all? 00:26:50,440 S5: Whatever. So Samson says, I think. 00:26:53,279 S1: Well, they're not looking at that, Leo. 00:26:55,279 S9: No, they're not reviewing the lighting. 00:26:56,920 S2: They're only reviewing stormwater. 00:26:58,960 S1: Yeah. Um, so I do feel like we have latitude here. Um, and, um, I know that in some of the the, um, Hamilton when, um, dark Sky comments, um, you feel like you're in you or you are in compliance or in agreement with some of their comments. I guess one of my questions. Um, or, you know, they they talked about motion activated lights. I get why that may not be possible. Um, and I also get for safety reasons. Certain lights need to be on. Um, you know, uh, overnight. Um. ET cetera. Um, is there periods of time, uh, especially in the summer when there are fewer students or maybe no students on campus where there may be some additional flexibility with the lighting? 00:28:08,319 S1: That's a question to someone on the other side. 00:28:11,279 S3: Okay. 00:28:11,720 S10: Sorry, Phil. Uh. It's christening, uh, campus planner at Gordon College. Um, and so, um, we've been working with Lamb Associates to design, uh, the site to adequately light the facility to align with the campus experience right now. So it doesn't this section or region of campus that's in the heart of campus fits and is congruent with the other spaces. Um, the principle that we're working with at Lam is a member. Uh, it's our understanding that he's a member of the Massachusetts Dark Sky, and it's been helping us guide through there. And so, again, in response to the feedback, we've adjusted color temperature, um, modified some of the lightings we've offered to, um, the up lighting of the trees that grays the size of the building to give definition to that. Um, we've talked about, you know, using it selectively at times around special events. Um, not necessarily prescribing that it's, you know, between these hours because we are a 12 month, uh, campus experience. Um, so, so, you know, like this week, we've got thousands of students coming on campus to participate in track and field events, things like that. So each week in each night is different. Um, but our intent is to control, um, the environment and not over light the, the space. 00:29:29,480 S1: So okay. 00:29:31,359 S10: So again, we've we've desired to work with a lighting partner that is cognizant of the initiative. It's our understanding that the initiative is an initiative at this point, that there's no adopted standards at the state level at this point. Um, but we are prescribing, uh, approaches that fall in line with, uh, the request of dark Sky and the overall goal of minimizing light pollution. 00:29:59,759 S1: Well, I appreciate the efforts. Um, and even though there's no state requirements, um, I do think that, um, my reading of our bylaw gives us pretty wide latitude when it comes to potential impacts of wildlife, um, from projects under our jurisdiction. So I do think that, um, again, um, I appreciate the effort you guys have made, and I realize you're taking this issue seriously. Um, and I think that's good. Even though there's not a state mandate yet. Um, so, um. 00:30:41,769 S1: I don't know if there's anyone else on the commission have a comment or an opinion on the lighting they wish to make at this point. 00:30:48,690 S5: Chairman. 00:30:49,970 S1: Go ahead. Leo. 00:30:50,849 S5: I'm satisfied with the lighting, but it should there be a state mandate that's that's different than or stricter than than than what? What they have. I think it should be, uh, should be adjusted later on to conform. 00:31:07,569 S5: Maybe that ought to be in the, in the, in the conditions. 00:31:15,369 S1: So this is kind of an. 00:31:19,049 S1: Outside of the box maybe idea. But um, if Gordon is open to this, um. 00:31:28,049 S1: Uh, it would is there? Um, I guess I'll give you this idea to think about. I don't need an answer right now. Um, but potentially some, uh, some type of monitoring of the situation of wildlife and lights, um, on campus, uh, from, uh, maybe of interest, um, and maybe useful, uh, in, you know, uh, showing that there's no impacts or, you know, potentially leading to some kind of modifications in the future. Um, and what that what that monitoring program would look like, I'd have to think about. But, um, you know, please give it some thought and and maybe we can reach, uh, some kind of mutual agreement, um, on this issue moving forward. 00:32:22,329 S2: The good student project with. 00:32:24,490 S6: With all due respect, Mister Chairman, I'm really uncomfortable with that idea. It's kind of like the whole idea of, like, an unfunded mandate in a general sense. You know where we're going to figure this out later. Uh, it really kind of holds the college over the barrel a little bit. I'm really uncomfortable with, uh, you know, imposing some type of future obligation on the basis of the current thing, especially if we're planning on some type of state regulations. They would speak for themselves. So I'm comfortable with the lighting plan. I think it's a good faith effort. Certainly it's not my area of expertise, but really uncomfortable as pending some type of future obligation out there at this point, unless we have a much clearer idea as to exactly what that's going to be. 00:33:06,769 S1: I'm not I'm not talking about a future state obligation. I'm talking about meeting our own bylaws. 00:33:11,809 S6: I understand, no, I understand that, Phil. It's just that, uh, you know, we don't really know what that is right now. And if we had a definitive program of some kind or something that we could base that on to measure that impact, that would be one thing. But, you know, to open up a wide discussion down the road, and we don't have a clear idea of what that's going to be or how we're going to do it. I'm just generally uncomfortable, Mr. Chairman. 00:33:36,460 S1: Go ahead Neil. 00:33:37,539 S5: All we have to do is put it in the conditions that that that later on they would conform to any, uh, any town, uh, ordinances or any state ordinances. That's all. That's the dude. Put it in the conditions. 00:33:51,140 S1: Yeah, well, I was trying to be I was trying to be difficult. I was trying to be diplomatic and start a, uh, a mutual conversation, um, about what might be a reasonable effort on their part. But, um, if that makes people uncomfortable, then, um, so be it. Um, we can't. 00:34:10,699 S5: Even help us, right? They could even help us write the conditions, Mr. Chairman. They're the professionals. 00:34:21,019 S1: Anyway, so. All right, let's let's move on. 00:34:25,099 S5: I move, we continue. It's. And we've already. 00:34:28,940 S1: We've already done that. We've already done that. 00:34:31,619 S5: On the agenda, Mr. Chairman. 00:34:34,420 S1: That's up to Margaret. 00:34:39,860 S2: Yeah. Let me just bring up the agenda. Um, so, Jacob, you've stopped. Have you stopped sharing? 00:34:46,579 S3: I can stop sharing. So I wouldn't know if there was a vote that I mean, I know there was a motion. Was there a second? Was there a vote to continue? 00:34:53,019 S1: Yes, there was a vote to continue. 00:34:56,340 S5: To continue until we have the the the the answer from Weston in Samson. And then we have a special meeting if necessary is. 00:35:04,900 S3: But we we're hoping earlier than the 13th. Okay. 00:35:09,820 S1: We'll see what we can do Jacob. 00:35:11,579 S3: Thank you. Thank you for your time. Commission. Yeah. 00:35:16,179 S1: All right. Margaret. 00:35:17,780 S2: I'm sorry. Yeah. Amanda has her hand up. 00:35:20,460 S4: Phil, I just want to clarify that the only, um, concern for the next meeting at the continuance will be the response from the peer review. If there are any other items which we should be prepared to speak to in the next meeting, if you have any outside concerns, or if that's the, um, the only piece we mean. 00:35:39,340 S1: We'll let you know. 00:35:42,659 S7: Okay. 00:35:46,659 S7: Okay. Um. 00:35:48,059 S2: So the next item of I'm sorry, are you okay to proceed? 00:35:52,500 S1: Yeah. 00:35:52,820 S7: Go ahead. Okay. 00:35:54,219 S2: Uh, the next item is the 62 Maple Street Maple Woods. Request for a certificate of compliance. Um, are you all familiar with the Maple Woods Project? And it has been completed. Um, Kate did receive an as built, um, that she has been satisfied that they've accomplished all of the goals of their order of conditions. 00:36:16,539 S5: Because of that, Mr. Chairman, I move. We we grant. 00:36:21,340 S1: Okay. Anyone have any questions, comments or concerns? 00:36:28,059 S6: I'll second the motion. 00:36:30,500 S1: All right. Hearing none. 00:36:33,900 S7: Okay. 00:36:34,460 S1: Um, I'll take a roll call. Vote. Um, so vote to approve, uh, the compliance. Jeff. Yes, Jackie. 00:36:45,059 S7: Yes. 00:36:46,179 S1: Ken. 00:36:46,900 S5: Yes. 00:36:48,059 S1: Leo. 00:36:48,659 S5: Yes. 00:36:50,139 S1: I vote yes as well. 00:36:52,260 S7: Okay. 00:36:52,739 S1: Okay. Next. Margaret. 00:36:54,820 S5: Can I be excused, Mr. Chairman? 00:36:57,019 S1: Yeah. Yeah. Leo. Go ahead. 00:36:58,940 S5: Thank you very much. And thank you for considering. Thank you for listening to me this evening. Have a good evening, folks. 00:37:05,099 S7: Goodbye. Little by little. 00:37:08,059 S2: Um, yeah. The next item is to discuss David Miller's application to serve on the Conservation Commission. And I think the committee wants to vote whether to make that recommendation to the select board. 00:37:20,739 S1: Yes, we do. So. Um. 00:37:23,420 S7: Okay. 00:37:24,099 S1: Okay. 00:37:24,739 S2: Anyway, I didn't make the motion. 00:37:26,750 S1: Yes. Before we, um. So just for Jackie. Jackie was not here. Last meeting. Um. So. Jackie. Uh, Mike Novak is not, um, pursuing a reappointment. So as of July 1st, we have an opening. We're very fortunate to have, uh, a recent transplant to when, um, uh, Doctor David Miller, um, uh, expressed interest in, uh, serving on the Conservation Commission. He has prior experience on coms. Um, he's a scientist. And, um, we met him at our last meeting. Um, and I think we're all, uh, duly impressed. Um, and so, um, we need to put this on the agenda so we can formally, uh, forward his, um, our recommendation to the, uh, select board to, uh, appoint him. So that's that's what this agenda item is about. So if you have any questions, if David, who I know is online. Um, feel free to ask him now. 00:38:29,469 S7: Um. Hi, David. Hey, Jackie. 00:38:32,429 S2: Could you tell me a little bit about your background? You've served on several con coms. Like what? Towns? 00:38:37,869 S6: And so we. 00:38:39,989 S11: Recently moved to when? About two months ago, maybe two months plus now from Winchester. And I was chair of the Winchester con com for four years and on the con com there for probably a total of almost ten years. So, uh, significant experience doing the same thing. Um, and, uh, I'm kind of eager to, uh, as I mentioned to the group last time, got together, uh, applied the lessons I learned in the Winchester environment to the Windham environment, by which I mean the natural resources environment, which are quite different between the two places. Um, and there's some differences in your bylaw as well, which I think will be interesting to, to learn and explore. Um, and then on the personal note, I, you know, it seems like joining the God com is a great way to get a good knowledge and understanding of the town we're living in and meet some people. So I'm looking at it both. 00:39:33,110 S2: Um, did you happen to know John Shawcross? 00:39:36,949 S7: No. 00:39:37,230 S2: He was. He was a former chairman of the Winchester Con. Come to. I grew up there, so he was a good family friend of ours. 00:39:45,269 S11: What were the years of that? That must have been quite some time ago. 00:39:47,630 S7: Well, he passed away. 00:39:49,389 S2: Three years ago, and so he probably moved out of town probably ten years prior to that, because I know they were up in like an assisted living place up in Burlington after that. Oh. But um, but yeah. 00:40:02,510 S11: So when I joined, when I joined a fellow named Steve Parkhurst was the chair. 00:40:06,510 S7: Okay. 00:40:07,670 S11: Had quite a few things in Winchester named after the Parkhurst, so. 00:40:10,909 S7: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. 00:40:13,550 S11: Yeah. 00:40:14,269 S2: Well, great. Nice to, uh, nice to meet you. And. Yeah, I think that's, um. That's great that you have an interest in joining our commission, bringing all of your experience to it, I'm sure is something that's going to be very valuable. 00:40:26,550 S11: Well, thank you buddy. I look forward to it as make the contribution as well. 00:40:29,670 S2: And what kind of a scientist are you? 00:40:32,429 S11: Uh, I'm a PhD biochemist by training, and I spent my professional career in the biotech industry. 00:40:40,070 S7: Right. 00:40:41,070 S11: Retired about five, actually, six years ago. If I can believe it. I can barely believe it. But, yes. 00:40:47,190 S6: The retirement years, they've passed quickly. 00:40:50,309 S11: Through a Covid in there. Yeah. For sure. 00:40:52,349 S7: Yeah. 00:40:54,429 S2: That was very nice meeting you virtually. David. Thank you for answering my questions. 00:40:58,630 S11: Well thank you Jack. I look forward to meeting in person. 00:41:02,429 S1: Okay. Can, uh, someone make the official motion so that Margaret doesn't have to? 00:41:08,949 S11: I. 00:41:09,949 S2: I I will I just met him, but I will I. 00:41:13,389 S7: I. 00:41:15,030 S2: I move that we that we, um, proposed David miller's name for the new Conservation commission spot that's opening up. 00:41:23,840 S6: Second. 00:41:26,039 S1: All in favor? Jeff. 00:41:27,599 S7: Yes. 00:41:28,719 S1: Jackie. 00:41:29,719 S7: Yes. 00:41:30,800 S1: Ken. 00:41:31,400 S7: Yes. 00:41:32,880 S1: I vote yes as well. Um. So, David, the way the process will work will send a letter to the, uh, select board. Um, and their next meeting is next Tuesday or probably the next meeting tomorrow, but it's probably too quick, right. 00:41:51,079 S6: For tomorrow, isn't it? Margaret. 00:41:53,039 S7: I don't know. 00:41:53,679 S12: If David's name is on there. 00:41:55,760 S7: Um, I did you. 00:41:57,800 S12: They are making appointments tomorrow, so he may be. 00:42:00,039 S7: On the phone. 00:42:00,519 S11: I got an email from Margaret. Um, no, not not Margaret. 00:42:04,199 S7: Yeah. 00:42:04,679 S12: From Michelle. 00:42:05,719 S11: Michelle. 00:42:06,239 S7: There we go. Yeah. 00:42:07,519 S12: Okay. 00:42:08,320 S11: Saying to get the select board meeting tomorrow night. Or at least they're meeting on this subject tomorrow night. 00:42:13,320 S7: Yes. Yeah. 00:42:14,280 S1: So, um, so, David, I will I will be there as well to, uh, support you in this, um, application. Not that you need. Thank you very much for your support. Um, but, um, it should go pretty smoothly. 00:42:27,679 S11: All right. Thank you. I look forward to it. Thank you for your support. 00:42:31,599 S7: Yep. Okay. 00:42:33,880 S1: All right. And, um, so the only other, uh. Just so I don't know if all the commissioners know or not, this is, uh, other matters not reasonably anticipated by the chair. Um, uh, Kate Mallory's father passed away. Um, and so if you didn't know that, um, that's, uh, Kate was not planning to be here anyway today. She was taking a vacation day, but, um, she will be, um, dealing with family stuff for a little while. Um, and so, fortunately, we have Margaret to pinch hit. Um, and, um, we're in good hands with Margaret, so, um, but, um, if my wife and I are going to be, uh, you know, sending Kate, uh, sympathy cards and stuff, but if the commission wants to send one. Um, I have a plethora of them. If you all want to, you know, co-sign or if you want to send one individually. Um, Margaret, could you, um, send us Kate's home address? 00:43:34,840 S12: I will, I'll send that in an email to the commission. 00:43:37,280 S1: All right. 00:43:37,639 S7: Thank you. Okay. 00:43:39,639 S6: I think that's, uh, for the commission to send a letter. I'm going to send one personally as well. But from the commission, I think would be appropriate. 00:43:46,519 S7: Yeah. 00:43:47,440 S6: Leave it at town hall for signature. Or. How do you want to work that? 00:43:50,800 S1: Yeah. I'll bring I'll bring one, uh, over to town hall tomorrow. Probably. Probably not till when I go over to, um, the selectboard meeting. Um, but we can leave it. Margaret, can we leave it in your office? 00:44:04,360 S7: Um. 00:44:04,960 S12: You can. Yep. Um, I will be there tomorrow, uh, till seven till I'll be at the Selectboard meeting, and then, I don't know, when do you. When do committee members think they'll come by? 00:44:18,920 S12: Do you have any sense of it? Only. Kate. Kate's in the office with me. We share an office, so. 00:44:25,809 S6: Um, or I might. Uh, I could probably get there on Friday. Would be the best day for me. I'm kind of booked up for the week. 00:44:35,769 S12: So town hall is closed on Fridays. Ken. 00:44:38,250 S7: Oh, okay. Sorry. 00:44:40,570 S6: Well, well, perhaps. Perhaps I'll just send an individual card, then. Um, might be easier, given the timing. If you could just get her home address. 00:44:50,329 S12: I will. I'll send that to the members. 00:44:52,210 S7: Okay. 00:44:54,090 S1: Or either that we can forge a signature. 00:44:57,769 S7: Well. Feel free. 00:44:59,050 S1: It would be the first time. 00:45:05,210 S7: Are you comfortable with that? 00:45:06,530 S6: If your mother's doing that. 00:45:09,889 S11: You could just. 00:45:10,409 S13: Let me know when it's good to be there. I can make myself available to get over there. 00:45:14,409 S7: Okay. 00:45:15,889 S2: Yeah. Same here. 00:45:16,929 S12: I, um. 00:45:17,489 S7: I'm wondering. 00:45:18,690 S2: So. 00:45:19,050 S12: Maybe maybe we could leave it. I could see if the town clerk would hold on to it. That way you can. Just to the town first floor. Town clerk's office might be a little easier than coming up into our office. Yeah, yeah. So if you want to do that, fill tomorrow, or I'll let Diane know that you'll leave the card there and the commission members will come in to sign it. 00:45:39,849 S1: She'll be she'll be at the select board meeting, too, I imagine. 00:45:42,889 S12: Right, Diane? 00:45:44,570 S7: Sometimes. 00:45:45,210 S12: Sometimes not. It depends on what's going on. But she's there until seven anyway. We're open till seven. 00:45:52,449 S7: Yeah. Okay. 00:45:53,610 S12: I'll let her know. 00:45:55,289 S1: All right. Um, Leo's not here, so I need someone to make the appropriate motion. 00:45:59,610 S12: So there was one other thing Kate mentioned about the Beverley airport. Had you all seen that? 00:46:05,769 S7: Yes. 00:46:06,210 S12: I don't know whether that's something you needed to discuss just briefly or. 00:46:11,730 S1: Um, yeah. That's. So did everyone get those emails or was it just myself and Ken? 00:46:19,849 S2: Yeah, I got them. 00:46:22,210 S13: I haven't. 00:46:22,929 S6: When is that meeting going to be filled? I don't offhand recall. Um. 00:46:27,409 S1: Yeah. Hold on. I'm looking. 00:46:28,650 S7: It up on mid July. 00:46:30,050 S6: I think. 00:46:31,369 S1: Yeah. Hold on. 00:46:33,409 S2: I just scanned the attachment, but I wondered when I did the scan. Is it the same thing we've discussed before, or is the scope of this project larger? 00:46:46,530 S6: From the description, it sounds like it's just a redo of what's already been presented, but okay, read it in detail. Um. 00:46:55,849 S1: So actually, it's a good thing we're looking at this because the, uh, the airport meeting is scheduled for Monday, July 6th at 530. So, um, we would not want to schedule a special meeting that would conflict with that. 00:47:16,650 S1: Um, But for people who can attend, um, um, you know, that's a good, um, good way to get all the details on what they're planning. Um, they will need to file and come before us for the filling of the wetlands in Wenham. Um, and, um, we've been pretty clear with them that they need to propose mitigation, which they claim they will. Um, so, um, perhaps they'll have more details on that on the sixth, or they may not. They may wait and have the details when they meet with us. Uh, specifically. 00:47:53,610 S13: Is that an in-person meeting or is that virtual? 00:47:57,130 S1: No, I think it's, uh, remote. 00:48:06,610 S7: Well. 00:48:07,610 S6: I will be attending that meeting. So however it comes up. 00:48:13,849 S2: I should be able to as well. 00:48:16,699 S7: Okay. 00:48:19,860 S7: Maybe we should. 00:48:20,539 S6: Just load that email around. Phil. 00:48:23,739 S1: Yeah, I can, I can do that. 00:48:25,619 S7: Okay. 00:48:29,980 S1: Okay. Margaret. Did I not anticipate anything else? 00:48:34,699 S12: I don't think there's anything else that you did not anticipate. Okay, maybe you're all set. 00:48:39,820 S7: Thank you. 00:48:40,179 S1: I anticipated the Red Sox being better than they are, but I don't think we have time to discuss that. 00:48:45,099 S7: No. 00:48:47,059 S12: You'd have to make a special public hearing for that one. 00:48:49,820 S1: I know, I know. Um, alcohol. Um, so, uh, Jeff, will you care to make the motion? 00:49:00,099 S13: I move, we adjourn. 00:49:03,019 S1: Do I hear a second? 00:49:04,300 S7: Second. 00:49:05,820 S1: All in favor? Jackie? 00:49:07,739 S7: Yes. 00:49:08,860 S1: Ken. 00:49:10,019 S6: Yes. 00:49:10,980 S1: Jeff. 00:49:11,860 S13: Yes. 00:49:12,980 S1: I vote yes as well. All right, stay healthy, everyone.