00:00:00,000 S1: I'm going to call the Monday, March 16th Hamilton psych board meeting to order. And, uh, because we're both virtual and in person, we're going to do a roll call vote. We'll start with, uh, uh, online. Start with Bill Wilson. Okay. Bill Wilson here. Uh, Joe, you let me know when Rosemary joins. Yeah. Uh, and in the room we have. Do we have both? Ben. 00:00:24,100 S2: Yep. Ben palooza here. 00:00:25,868 S1: Tom and Tom. 00:00:29,467 S2: Okay. 00:00:33,000 S1: Uh, not here, Tom, but. 00:00:34,300 S2: Oh, yeah. Tom. Here. Yeah. Yep. 00:00:36,367 S1: All right. Um, we'll start with board and committee openings. It's a long list, so I'm going to read them all here. The Affordable Housing Trust has one opening. The Conservation Commission has two openings. The Community Preservation Committee has two openings. One opening for member of the historic district commission and one opening for an at large member. The Council on Aging has one opening. The Essex North Shore Agricultural and Technical School Committee has one opening that is done through the moderator. The fin com. The Finance Advisory Committee has two openings which will also also through the moderator. The Hamilton Environmental Impact Committee has one opening. The Historic District Commission has two openings for three year terms, two openings for two year terms, and one of those must be a resident of the historic district and one must be a resident realtor. The Hamilton Recreation Board has one opening for a Hamilton resident. And lastly, the Human Rights Commission has one at large opening. 00:01:46,200 S3: All right. 00:01:49,767 S1: Have a busy agenda today, but we will start with a public comment. We'll start first in the room. We're going to do 30 minutes. With maximum three minutes per speaker. So, Joe, if you could help, uh, manage that and run the clock. 00:02:05,868 S2: Yep. We have no guests online or in the room. So except for John McGrath. 00:02:16,467 S2: Nobody present. Bill. Oh, wait a minute. Michelle Hogan's coming in. 00:02:28,400 S2: Bill, can you hear me? 00:02:30,267 S1: Yeah, we took my camera out because I have a bad connection. 00:02:34,067 S2: All right, all right. Uh, just for those who just joined us, we're in public comment. If anybody wants to, um, make a comment now. 00:02:46,567 S2: Nobody is expressing a desire to speak again. 00:02:50,267 S1: All right. Joe, can you hear me now? Sorry I changed my, uh, Wi-Fi connection. All right. Um, consent agenda. We have three items on the consent agenda. We have accept gifts to the Hamilton Fire Department totaling $1,875. Approve a request for friends of the Hamilton Venom Library fundraiser and approve meeting minutes of February 25th, 2025 Select Board meeting. So be nice. A little bit more about this generous donation. 00:03:24,367 S2: Which generous donation? 00:03:26,567 S1: We said, well, I think it says one one for, uh, $1,875. 00:03:32,801 S2: If you're accepting, uh, five donations totaling 1875, there was a donation of $1,500 from John's garage. Um, and, uh, there was no real explanation from John. They just forwarded the money to the, uh, Hamilton Fire Department, said that they could use it for whatever the fire department needed. 00:03:54,067 S1: So that's great. 00:03:57,067 S4: And were the other gifts Joe directed at anything like that was? I know there were some other named gifts as well. 00:04:04,400 S2: No. Um, yeah. No, it was a $200, $100, 2550. They were, um, they were just donations to the fire department. I don't know if they're related to the. 00:04:15,868 S4: Oh, okay. So it's all fire department. I missed that, sorry. Okay. 00:04:19,467 S2: Rosey Kennedy is joined at 706. 00:04:24,000 S4: So I do move that we, uh, approve the consent agenda as outlined. 00:04:29,400 S1: Second. I have a second. 00:04:31,501 S2: Second. 00:04:33,100 S1: Any further discussion? 00:04:37,501 S1: All right. We will do a roll call vote. Then we'll start online with, uh, Bill Wilson. 00:04:41,901 S4: Uh, Bill Wilson, I. 00:04:43,667 S1: Uh, Rosemary. 00:04:44,868 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 00:04:47,467 S1: Uh, Ben Kaluza. 00:04:48,567 S2: Ben Kaluza, I Tom powers, I. 00:04:51,801 S1: And boy. Moles and I. 00:04:55,367 S1: Moving right along. Uh, department had reports. We had, uh, we had Tim Olsen in a few meetings ago. We gave him some feedback. And, um, we're going to talk about why some things got sent out and circulated and discussion. So why don't we let, uh, Tim present where we ended up and we can discuss. And we need to vote on this tonight? 00:05:18,801 S2: Yes. There's, um, just to before this, Tim takes the the mic, I'll just note that, uh, there's the matter of a rate adjustment. And also, Tim had sent some draft language for an announcement to folks. Uh, we're still waiting on feedback from the board on the announcement, but we've got a couple days to do that. 00:05:38,400 S6: Yeah. Tim Olson, DPW director, just come before the Select board, um, to try to implement some new water rates to cover the fiscal 27. Water. Enterprise expenses. Um, gave a list of several, uh, maybe a couple months ago, um, for consideration. Like I said, there are many scenarios we can go through. Uh, many different funding, um, solutions with tier rates, with percentages, with infrastructure fees. Um, just looking for direction from the select board, acting as water commissioners to implement the new rates. Um, they would be potentially implemented in mid April. Uh, that would be reflective on the August 2026 bill. So the first water bill in fiscal 27 would have the new water rates that would allow us to have four quarters for water bills in fiscal 27 to meet our expenses. I did submit a notice that I put together at the board's direction and request, you know, waiting. Hear back from comments. I do think it's a good idea to put something out. I totally agree with that. So, um, once I get the results or the I guess the revisions or edits back, I'll, I'll work with our social media and town website to put it out for, uh, for an announcement to the public. 00:07:19,100 S2: Interested to hear from the board. 00:07:21,200 S1: So, Joe, can we share? Sorry, I'm having an issue. Okay. Can we share the rate on the screen? What do we have to share? 00:07:27,467 S2: Yeah, I can share. I can share it. It'll be. 00:07:37,868 S7: Okay. So. 00:07:41,367 S7: We'll put this up here. 00:07:42,567 S2: Um, so there's as Tim mentioned there, he, he offered four different options, but you guys can play with the rate here. Option one is a $40 infrastructure fee and an increase. 00:07:54,667 S2: In base rate of 30%. Option two is a $25 infrastructure fee increase and a 15% rate increase. The option three is a $25 infrastructure and a 10% rate tier one, two and 20% for tiers three, four and five. And option four is a 15% infrastructure increase with 20% rate increase across the board. Um, again, the goal as discussed previous meetings, is to get to the point where we are able to, um, both pay for the operating of the water department, which is a requirement of the enterprise fund, and to also create some retained earnings so we can do projects without having to bond every time that we want to do a water project. 00:08:40,801 S7: That sounds like we were I'm sorry. Bill. Can I just jump? Yeah. 00:08:47,100 S1: Go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead. 00:08:49,367 S7: It sounded like we would have to do some amount of bonding for the size and scale of some of the projects that are in the 5 to 10 year horizon. Anyway, this just sort of buys that down. Like, you know, that principal amount that needs to be borrowed. So. 00:09:03,567 S2: Right. There's about what, about $11 million in total work that estimated. Um, right. 00:09:08,701 S6: At this time? Yeah. 00:09:09,601 S2: You know, the, uh, upgrading transmission lines across town is something that's going to be ongoing for the next several decades. The pipes, many of them are still, uh, 50, 60 years old and older. So those will eventually have to be upgraded. The water tank at the top of Browne's Hill is going to eventually need to be replaced as well. That's a large ticket item. We'd love to be able to do water transmission lines a little at a time, with money that we've saved and retained earnings, and protect the ability to borrow for a larger project like the water tank. The. 00:09:46,467 S7: And how much so in the enterprise fund for is there a delineation between just general operation costs or like infrastructure projects or is all kind of co-mingled. 00:10:00,400 S2: So that all the money that gets collected by the Water Enterprise Fund is there for the use of the Water Enterprise Fund. Um, it can be used to pay for projects, it can be used for operational costs. It can also be used to offset debt. So the town had instituted the infrastructure fee several years ago as a way to ensure that we're collecting enough money to pay for the debt service that we've already borrowed against. Um, that's why Tim's sort of hinting at an adjustment in the infrastructure fee now, because that's really just holding steady. It's not really building us up any, uh, ability. 00:10:33,400 S7: And remind me, I know we went through these figures last time, but in my head, it's like we've replaced something like 60,000 linear feet of pipe. Correct. 00:10:42,067 S6: And then over the last, um, since 2012. 00:10:46,100 S7: And that ran us. That was a kind of a a single. 00:10:50,367 S1: I know, I know we asked you for a lot of options. Sorry, sorry, Ben, if you're still going. 00:10:56,000 S7: No, I just want to, like, wrap my arms around it. Sort of like the the scale, the numbers was kind of six, $7 million. Is that right? Like that. 00:11:03,300 S6: So we had there was two bonds for 5 million apiece. There was $10 million that we used, um, to start those phases of, uh, water system improvements. We then, um, more recently, maybe 2018, maybe we did bond some more money for the upgrades at the water plant. Yeah. And then again for the gas filtration. So it was 10 million plus. You're probably looking at probably for all the work that we've done since 2012, probably around 13, 14 million. 00:11:32,868 S7: Are we about halfway through? Like just like in terms of, like the linear footage. Remind me again like that for a replacement? 00:11:38,968 S6: Yeah, I think, you know. Off the top of my head, I think we still had a good, um, you know, probably double what we've done, at least, um. 00:11:49,601 S7: A third of the way through. Probably. That's fine. I just, like, wrap my arms around it. And how much how much debt service do we have right now? 00:11:57,567 S2: The the, uh, we're we're got about $8 million in debt and 8 to 9, and, uh, a big chunk of that will drop off around 2030, uh, which would be a good time for us to bond another project and be able to utilize that freed up space. But in the meantime, we're we're also trying to keep the retained earnings up enough to get to a point where, I mean, a good water main project, linear feet of uh, replacement line would probably run us 2 to $3 million. And right now above the 20% that we have to have in retained earnings, we've only got about 400,000, 800,000, I can't remember which. 00:12:34,601 S6: I think I think it was like 800. 00:12:36,167 S2: About 800,000. So we're not quite halfway there. So we need we. Part of the reason why the increase is so that we can get there in the next year or two on a project. Okay. 00:12:45,567 S7: And there's sort of an economy of scale I imagine as well. Right. Like that's why you're saying like do it. And at least kind of in today's dollars, probably like $3 million chunks so that you're not just doing one little mobile like segment at a time. It's like a big plus. 00:12:59,767 S2: It costs a lot less to do it if we're paying for it upfront. If we're bonding it, we're going to pay that bond over 10 or 15 years, and then it's going to cost us more. It's actually going to cost us more to do $3 million worth of work. It'll cost us more like $4 million to do $3 million worth of work. If we can have the $3 million, yeah, we can get it taken care of. 00:13:14,701 S6: I mean, the way we phase projects are, you know, if we're going to be in a neighborhood, we'd like to finish the neighborhood instead of, you know, do half of it and then come back 2 or 3 years later to do the other half. I mean, if we're in there, we should get in and get out. It's construction. It's inconvenient. Um, yeah. So that's where the 2 to 3 million. Is is a good project that gets very good amount of interest. Competitive bids. Um, it's big enough for to get some people hungry for it. Um. 00:13:48,767 S4: All right. So, Tim is the strategy. Then he'll increase, you know, retain earnings. So by 2030, you'll have around 3 million. And then you'd look to bond the remaining eight or what's the the balance here between, you know, retained earnings and going to bond another project. I mean how much will it increase every year over the next three years. Retained earnings. It looks like to me from what you guys just said anyway, you're trying to get that number to be 2 or 3 million by 2030. Is that accurate or not? 00:14:22,267 S6: I think it's if we want to completely pay through the retained earnings, we would have to do that. Um, if we want to do something earlier, we would bond and then maybe use half of it. Uh, you know, retained earnings are half of it. Um, it depends on how soon we want to do these projects. I know my kind of one of my top priorities is the water tank. And that's going to be a 3 million plus dollar job. That water tank is is our only tank in town. Um, it is dated. It's well past its design life. Um, it's something I don't want to wait, you know, another five, 4 or 5 years to do. Um, we've got a consultant looking at it right now. Um, a kind of a conceptual design to try to really pinpoint what that construction cost will be. Um, so we're moving forward. We just, you know, I'm not sure if we want to wait. That's a good amount of time for an old 1935 tank, so. Yeah. 00:15:22,501 S2: Can I just clarify? 00:15:23,767 S4: Probably too much. 00:15:24,667 S2: That tank doesn't have the ability to move water around within it. Right. So it's water in and water out. One of the problems with holding water on a tank is that if it shuts, it's stagnant. It creates problems. So we want to upgrade. We need eventually to upgrade to a more modern tank that will allow the water to kind of move around within the tank so that it doesn't just sit still. 00:15:44,167 S6: Right. Right now it's four individual cells created with or connected by overflows. That means we would need for mixing systems in each cell. Uh, very costly. Um, if we do one tank, we would put in one mixing system. 00:15:59,667 S1: But I think back to Bill's question, though, was based on the plan you're putting forth here is the is the goal to get to is the goal to have that? What's the goal? What are you trying to get up to with returned earnings by having the increased rate? Is is it to get to two and a half, $3 million number? 00:16:17,000 S2: Yeah I think it's a bill. Right. Tim and Wendy and I have talked and I think that what one of the things that we'd like to see is that even before 30, maybe by 29, we'd have two, $2.5 million in that account. So we could do another transmission project. I know, Tom, Tim's already done a lot of the planning for what would be considered water phase five upgrades, phase five, phase five. 00:16:36,100 S6: Five, six. 00:16:37,000 S2: And sure. And at the same time, in 2030, some debt would be rolling off the enterprise fund. So we could reissue that debt to do the water tank. And you get a new water tank and phase five water system. Water transmission improvements is done at the same time. Um, and then we'd have, you know, a few more years to run before we need to do another project right away. 00:16:57,167 S7: Thanks for that clarification. Does that basically mean, like, we're just, um, following it? There's this final row here that says surplus versus deficit. That's great. And you've got these four options ranging from as high as $650,000 in surplus. And then the other three are kind of really just like different splits between infrastructure and percentage rate increases that get you to a $300,000 a year surplus. Is that correct? 00:17:27,868 S6: That's correct. I. You know, just looking at the four individual scenarios. Um, it's it's really how quickly we want to build up, um, the retained earnings. Um, we can, uh, the infrastructure fee is, is something that everybody pays. That's a that's a quick math to figure out how much that would be. Uh, you know, whatever the infrastructure fee is. Times the amount of times for, uh, that gives us our annual infrastructure fee, um, revenue. Um, the rates are a little challenging just because we are a five tier rate system. Um, it's hard for me to really look at individual tiers and where we're getting them. I mean, I would say the majority of people are in tier one and tier two, but there are a lot of people that go into those higher tiers that pay a good amount of money. Um, you know, to, to for the water. So it's these are the numbers that you see on the right side are generated through our accounting software based on the tiers, based on the rates that I put in and the infrastructure fee. I run a model basically based on last year's usage, to develop kind of projected commitment, quarterly commitments to to then develop or I guess then compare it to our expenses. And that's what the surplus or deficit would be that you mentioned before. 00:18:52,767 S7: So are we understanding it? Correct. If it's a if the goal is to get up to a few million, how much surplus do we have? Right now we're trying to get up to do we need 3 million additional or. 00:19:07,467 S4: How much would you say. Er 400 or. 00:19:11,167 S6: I know, I'm not sure what we have. I think we have a certain amount in retained earnings Joe, I think, and they have to, you have to keep 20% correct. Yeah. 00:19:19,367 S2: So I think of the retained earnings similar to our free cash. Our policies. Our free cash policies require us to keep 20% of the enterprise fund as retained earnings to to hedge against an issue that is unforeseen. So we always are liable. And that in that. 00:19:36,167 S7: Setting of 400,000 more than the 20% right now. Correct. Right. Gotcha. Okay. Sorry, I'm a little I'm there now. Sorry. Thank you. 00:19:44,400 S6: Yep. And I think what this shows is I've built in this fiscal 27 capital into this program. Um, it is included already. Uh, and that is the remaining, uh, surplus. Uh, as you can see, changes with the different tier structures and infrastructure fees. And I think we just need to figure out what is a, a, an increase that, um, is, uh, is fair and, um, the way to move forward, but then also building up some retained earnings to do a project quicker. That's that's the whole challenge in this. 00:20:23,567 S1: So how do I look at the retained earnings on the different options. I'm finding that hard to find on this. Where's the. 00:20:29,367 S6: Difference. 00:20:30,367 S1: Okay. You don't. Okay. 00:20:31,567 S6: Nope. 00:20:32,167 S7: So we just have to do the math here. So we've got 400,000 already. And then there's three options. Options two through four are all basically in the neighborhood of 300 grand per year. 00:20:46,868 S6: So the last rate increase that we put together was in 2023. And I believe the board decided to go with about $150,000. Um, surplus, if you want to call. Um, that was like I said, 2 or 3 years ago. Things a lot of things have changed since then. Um, but that was kind of where we were last time. Um, I kind of came up with a similar scenario. Um, showcasing some of these, but just wanted to offer that that was the last rate increase. And the idea with the surplus, um, after the expenses are paid. 00:21:26,200 S2: Again, we understand that it's really difficult to ask for a rate increase in this current economic climate. We know that there's a lot of pressures on a lot of people. 00:21:34,200 S7: Yeah, I think. 00:21:35,601 S2: We're wanting to put options in front of you so that you can decide what you think is the level that the community can, can absorb. Um, that's a difficult question, a difficult thing to ask always. But we have to do our job and advise you what's going to be needed to keep the system. 00:21:52,367 S7: Yeah. I guess the one last question, you know, just a technical one on the infrastructure itself. Um, if we lose those, like those tanks, if they failed in some fashion, um, what what happens to our water supply? Just as an example. 00:22:11,601 S6: We we only have the clear well at the water treatment plant. Um, and that's within the process. So it's available, but it's nothing compared to that size. I think it's 300,000 gallons, something like that. 00:22:26,167 S2: But water. 00:22:27,367 S6: Pressure issues, water pressure issues because that's the highest point in town. That's a good point. Um, but our fire flow that's the concern is being able to produce the water if we do ever have, um, an emergency in town. Uh, that's where our storage is. 00:22:43,667 S7: Yeah. 00:22:44,167 S6: Yeah. We do have interconnections. Uh, you know, we can meet mutual aid type. Um, but like we've talked about, other meetings of the neighboring communities are they don't have a lot of water either. Uh, so that's it's there if we need it. But, um, we won't have anything local. So the one scenario I did not do, and to Joe's point is I did not do a breakeven scenario. Um, I, I can look at that. Uh, if we want to just cover expenses, and that's what we want to do. I probably should have done that as part of this looking back, but, um, I just wanted to offer kind of some ideas. Um, but that is something that I, I did not put together. 00:23:27,567 S1: Um, when's the last time we had a break even? Water fee. I mean, that's had been a long. I mean, we haven't typically operated with a break even. 00:23:36,968 S2: Yeah. And I think I think, Bill, my first year here, um, 2019 or early 2020, we brought and I might have even been 2019. We brought you a request to increase the rates because the rates had not changed in 2020. Yep. So, um, it was a big jump at that point. And we agreed the board had agreed that rather than wait another ten years, you wanted to look at this every other year or so and make minor adjustments to try to make sure that we're staying on the right side of the line. By 2021, we came to you. We were kind of at break even and barely creating any retained earnings. So um, now we're in a better spot than we were in 2020, but, um, we made the adjustment in 2023. It's three years later again. It's a good time to look at it and and see what we think we can do. 00:24:25,367 S1: And are we? 00:24:26,300 S4: You guys have stayed to the right though I think you've done a good. I mean, we're not building the retained earnings I get it. But tell me. Sorry Bill. I'll start 26. Is that a budget or a forecast or are they one in the same thing? 00:24:38,667 S6: I didn't hear. 00:24:39,167 S4: What where are we going to end? 2620. 00:24:42,267 S6: 26 we are we're we're close. But I believe we're going to be fine. Wendy and I are tracking that, uh, presently, but I think we're in good shape. I do have a little bit of capacity in the budget, just because there is an open position that I'm looking to fill. Um, but there is some I've been tracking, and I think we're going to be in good shape this year. 00:25:04,467 S4: Okay. 00:25:06,968 S6: We're able to take advantage of some grants as well this year that I always look for grants to try to minimize the amount of expenses we were able to get those this year. I can't guarantee we'll get them next year, but we'll go after them. Um, but we also have a little bit more, uh, maintenance and operational maintenance with the GAC system. Uh, that is, like I said, acting, uh, working great. It just costs money to maintain. Um, you know, that was something that we, I think, um, had a, um, a grant for the filters, the the, um, filtering filters. Is it every five year change out? Uh, we had a grant for that as well. Um, so there are certain items and ability out there to get some money. I just can't guarantee that that program is going to be there and we're going to be successful. 00:26:01,767 S1: Hey, Joe, there's a, uh. 00:26:03,868 S4: I know somebody is hacking in on your, uh, videos. 00:26:10,267 S4: Can we cut those off? 00:26:13,968 S5: Boyd had the same issue the other night. 00:26:16,467 S7: Yeah, we. 00:26:17,300 S8: Got we got the video stopped, and now we will, uh, we won't let it back in. 00:26:28,567 S1: Um, see, we have some questions out there. A couple more questions, and then we'll do a public comment on this. Um, so we, um. Are we looking at freezing? What if we agree to a rate change tonight? Is it? Are you guaranteeing that without some catastrophe, it's going to you're going to maintain that rate for three years? Four years? Do I go? What do we what kind of guarantee can we give our community people on this? And unless there's some major catastrophe we're not going to look at to change the rates. 00:26:56,367 S6: I mean, I look at the rates every year. We've been like I said, we've been fortunate enough to get some grants, uh, maintain or minimize some of those expenses, to make sure that we could hold rates, but we should look at them every year. I think it's healthy to do so. Just some years. It may require it. It may be other years. If we don't decide to do a rate change, we may not have as much retain or surplus at the end of the year. Um, that's kind of where we are this year. 00:27:25,467 S1: So we're not looking to lock this in. You're only looking for we're only voting for for until we vote again kind of thing. Correct. Which could be which could be a year. It could be three years. Okay. And, um. 00:27:43,267 S1: Okay. And then John McGrath, I mean, I don't know, you guys have voted on this, but do you have any thoughts or questions we should be asking to make sure we're making the right decision here? 00:28:01,000 S4: Is he frozen? I think it might be. 00:28:04,100 S1: I'm sorry. I see him looking straight. 00:28:06,767 S4: He's moving. 00:28:08,100 S2: John, you look like you're muted. 00:28:12,267 S4: Yeah. 00:28:15,968 S4: Well he's figuring that when we do bond how many years do we do that for. 00:28:21,501 S2: For the water system I think it's 15 years. But I'm. 00:28:24,267 S6: 1520. It's something like that. 00:28:27,167 S2: 15 to 20. I guess it depends on the size of the project and the rate. 00:28:32,000 S4: Okay. 00:28:34,100 S1: John, did you have any comments or questions we should be asking? We haven't asked yet. Yeah. 00:28:38,868 S9: Hey, guys. Um, when I met with Tim, uh, in, uh, what, November? Tim for budget, I urged him to, um, bring forward a rate increase. I think we should agree with him. I think we should be looking at this every year and probably develop a little bit of a model. Um, I think, you know, trying to appease the public and say, we won't come back to it in four years, I don't think. I don't necessarily agree with that strategy. So I think what we should be telling people is our our infrastructure in town is risky. I'll eat my words and we will be looking at this every year. Um, and not, you know, delay it. So I think we want to invest it in the, in the infrastructure. And I think we need to, to be more aggressive on this point. So anyway, those are some of the thoughts that I shared with Tim and Joe back at budget time. And I think we should try to put more pressure on the big users. So how they, you know, a more aggressive rate, uh, for those folks. Um, but I firmly support Tim, and I really do feel we've underinvested and it's a risky situation. So anyway, those are some of the thoughts that I shared back in November, and I continue to feel the same way. 00:30:05,100 S1: I mean, I even though I don't want to see anybody spend more money, I do agree that, you know, I make it up a number, but a $10 rate increase per quarter is going to save our our community $20 down the road, because if we save the bank account, we're saving that we're not going to spend the interest in the bond. So it's better to save that money up front and spend it than it is to finance it later down the road. So yeah, I agree with that. It's a better plan to have that that money proactively because we're going to need to spend it. But um, but I want to go to the rest of the board. So. Yeah. So Ben I just wanted Ben and Tom. Any other comments or questions before we go to the public comment? 00:30:41,000 S7: Um, what was our, um, sorry, we covered this our our borrowing costs on this. If we. When do we have to serve? 00:30:47,367 S2: I'm sorry. I don't have that available to me. I know we I know we shared with the board two meetings ago. I didn't have a packet for tonight. I apologize. 00:30:52,667 S7: I might have written it down. Sorry. I'll go back my notes. That's it for me. Thanks. No, no other comments for me, I think I got everything I need answered. 00:31:05,367 S1: Uh, Rosie? Rosie? 00:31:07,567 S5: Yeah. Um, just. Can you hear me? Okay. Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to say, um, that I agree with Tim's, um, thought process. And I also agree with, uh, John, that we shouldn't we shouldn't insinuate to people that we wouldn't come back for another increase in the rates, um, next year or the year after. I also feel that it's a very good idea to build up that their reserves. I think that's really important. It lessens our need to borrow money. And I think that within these, uh, board choices, there's one that can minimize the impact on residents. Um, so those are. Those are my thoughts. 00:32:01,100 S1: Do you want to. Do you want to throw out there? Well, I'm inclined to go with what you're thinking. Do you want to throw out there which option you're thinking? 00:32:09,000 S5: Yeah. Unequivocally. Um, option. Option three. I think that's a reasonable increase. I think it, um, um, gives some benefit to people who use less water. And I think that's what we all should be striving for. And those who have, um, who use water at a greater amount. Um, they will um, they're a little bit of a higher burden. But I think when you think about swimming pools, large irrigation systems. Um, we we just need to be circumspect and very careful about Asking people to increase their rates by X amount across the board, because there are people that use much less water. And I think that we should take that into consideration. Those are my thoughts. 00:33:10,200 S1: Okay. Thank you. And Bill Wilson. 00:33:14,567 S4: Yeah. Um, I agree we need to start putting away some money here to get some projects done. I think the 11 million is probably going to be shy of what we really need down the road. So we've got to think of a strategy. I struggle a bit with how we're blending it with, you know, the usage rate and and is that the appropriate way to save a rainy day fund? No pun intended with rainy. Or should there be, should it be a larger infrastructure cost or. And I don't know is that, you know, typical with municipalities where you should rate fluctuates for rainy day funds versus your breakeven operating costs, and then you have another vehicle to save money for future projects, because that's the only way we could say our usage rates were comfortable with. But we know we've got these ten projects. Here's our cost and we're going to save it this way. 00:34:09,267 S1: I mean, some way some towns bill, we pulled building permits right. And my other, my other job. But um, we pay an R&R fee. Right. So if you put if you pull a commercial building permit, they make you pay a larger fee because that money goes into a water infrastructure fund. Um, you know, that's one way. And I don't know how complicated that would be, but, yeah, you could we could try some sort of permitting fee to, uh, to a water infrastructure fund. If you're building a town and you're going to use more water. But I'm not. I'm not sure if you even looked at that model. Maybe that's something to look at down the road, but it's not that many permits built in time per year. But that's, you know, everything helps, right? 00:34:45,267 S4: Yeah. So really it's the blend between the the one time infrastructure cost. So what that has the word infrastructure. And what does that meant to cover Tim? That's not to cover the structured projects we're talking about. Should that number be 500 or I'm just throwing it against the wall? I'm not saying that's the right answer, but how do I think of usage, what that should cover and infrastructure cost? 00:35:09,467 S6: Yeah, I think back in or 2023, I believe we decided to the infrastructure fees were to pay for the debt service of the large capital projects. That's how they were set to cover that debt, which is that number right above the gray, um, the gray line. So, um, and that's an easy like I said earlier, that's an easy calculation and that's I wouldn't call it, but that's, it's, that's our basis for that's a known. Um, and for our revenue, um, it's not based on usage. 00:35:50,667 S4: Okay. That was helpful. Thank you. Um, because I agree with what John said, and you said I think we would have to we do have to revisit this every year, but that's because we're trying to throw a lot into a usage fund. Right? Um, and I'm not sure that's the smartest thing to do. But with that said, you know, no one we have those are our two levers to pull to to start saving some money. I think, you know, was it 16%? I think overall in option one, was that the total or was that more like what would you put in the the memo you wrote? What recommendation was that from? 00:36:29,467 S4: The Town of Hamilton, water department of water rate increase. You you had a 16% increase in there which, which um. 00:36:38,100 S2: I think part of the reason that's highlighted is that that was just, uh, holder language, like, we will we will do the math once you choose these options and, and then fill that in to match whichever option you choose. This was the a draft of the memo that will go out to every water ratepayer, but some of those numbers will change based on your vote tonight. 00:36:57,868 S4: So what's a non-resident fee like? How does that come into play? 00:37:02,567 S6: Non-resident fee is resident or I guess people that live in Essex or Wenham that we deliver water to. So they pay an extra fee to receive Hamilton water. 00:37:16,767 S2: About how many properties is that in total? 00:37:18,501 S6: Like it's just it's a handful, I would say no more than 2015 to 20. 00:37:24,567 S2: It kind of came up because of the way the water systems in each of the three towns were built up over the years. You have Hamilton, I mean, sorry, excuse me, for instance, when m residents along Walnut that are closer to the Hamilton water supply and was easier to is easier back then for the town of Hamilton to provide water to those homes than for Wenham to run pipe all the way from the other direction. Same thing happened with Essex and towns around our side of the lake, so we charge slightly different fees to those non-resident ratepayers. 00:37:57,901 S4: Okay. 00:37:59,267 S2: But it's not it's not a significant number that would really impact how we're able to save. 00:38:05,267 S7: I guess I'll go ahead though. Sorry. 00:38:08,467 S4: No, no, I was listening, sorry I coughed. I think one's way too high. Um, if I'm trying to hone in like Rosie did, uh, I like the idea of three and kind of tearing it, but it's a pretty big jump. It's double right? 10 to 20% between tier one and two and three, four, five. That's a pretty good jump. Um, and then I guess option two is just 15% flat. Correct? Yep. So somewhere I'm thinking in the middle. But I think I would go with three as well if I was asked to select one at this point and then look at it again next year after we get four quarters in and and see. See what that looks like? 00:38:47,000 S1: I'm good. I'm good with three. Um. Which I think it's good to go back to bed. And, Tom, do you guys have a preference on which one you're leaning towards before we take it? 00:38:55,267 S7: I was I was leaning towards three. I mean, I was between 2 and 3, I guess. Um, but I think, you know, Rosie made a really good point about, you know, sort of, you know, focusing on the, the actual usage and sort of like those that are using less are sort of in a lower bracket. And I think that's really important for some of our low water users, some of our older population that probably are going to fall in that lower bucket. Um, I also think, you know, given where we are, a town meeting, you know, we're looking at, you know, asking for an override. I think we have to be very careful of costs and, you know, knowing that we're, you know, we're in difficult times and, and taxpayers are feeling it in their wallet. So, um, I think we have to balance that need for building out the, the fund and, you know, making sure we have enough surplus for our infrastructure. Um, but also taking into account the tax payer. So I do I do lean towards option three as well. 00:39:48,267 S2: Does anybody want to make that a motion? 00:39:51,167 S5: Sure I'll make the motion. I vote for. I move that we adopt, uh, option three in water rate increases for this coming year to start in August, to be revisited as per Tim's recommendation. 00:40:13,000 S1: Second by August 2020. So we have a second. Yep. So I thought I saw someone from the audience, uh, with their hand raised. Just want to make sure they miss public comment. So further discussions or any comments Joe, either online or in the room. 00:40:26,267 S2: Let me, uh, stop sharing so I can see, but I don't see anybody else raising their hand. There's nobody in the room that's raising their hand. 00:40:35,267 S1: Okay. All right. It looks like we can move to a vote. We'll start online with, uh, Bill Wilson. 00:40:41,567 S4: Uh, Bill Wilson, I. 00:40:43,367 S1: Uh, Rosemary. 00:40:44,601 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 00:40:46,601 S1: Uh, Ben. 00:40:47,767 S10: Ben goes I. 00:40:49,901 S7: Yeah. 00:40:50,367 S1: Tom. 00:40:51,567 S7: Tom Myers I blame motion. 00:40:53,367 S1: I, uh, Tim, thank you very much for really trying to be proactive in pushing us to be, uh, to be responsible with our water and our rates. So thank you for I know it's a lot of work, so it's something that people don't see. A lot of people understand how complex that plant is. Probably don't offer tours of it, but it's something that we'd all be. I'm sure impressed to see how you run that thing. 00:41:14,767 S6: So any time. Thank you, thank you. 00:41:17,767 S4: Yeah. Thank you Tim. 00:41:18,701 S7: Thanks. Thank you Tim. 00:41:19,601 S6: Thank you. 00:41:21,400 S10: Have a good night. Thanks, Tim. Thank you. All right. 00:41:25,968 S2: Uh, town Clerk Karen Kale is here for the next item on the agenda. 00:41:30,300 S1: All right, let me go back to my agenda. All right, next item on the agenda is to appoint Elizabeth Taft to the Board of Registers of Voters. We're going to discuss, and we need to vote tonight. So, Joe, can you lead that discussion? And, uh, and, and, uh, and, uh, involve Corinne as needed? 00:41:49,100 S2: Yeah. Um, uh, I'll say that I've learned from Corinne over the years that the board of Registrars of Voters is three people. One has to be a nominee from the Republican Party, one that has to be a nominee from the Democratic Party. And the third one can be from either party. Uh, Elizabeth Taft, I believe, is being asked to be appointed as a registered Democrat because we have a vacancy in that position there right now. Her name was provided by the town Democratic Committee. Did I get that right? Oh, Corinne. 00:42:16,267 S11: Almost. Yeah. They actually a town committee could not help me identify any candidates, because a candidate really has to be politically neutral. And honestly, right now, political parties, this community tend to be active. So that became a little bit of a problem. So I worked with Nancy Steffes closely. And um, um, as I've done in the past, I then reach out to my election workers, who are of the party that I need to find a recommend an appointee. And fortunately, Elizabeth has been working some elections and was willing to take this on, so I was grateful. So again, worked very closely as I'm required to do by law with the town committee. Um, and you were absolutely correct this year. It was a Democratic appointee that was needed. So I had to work with the Democratic town committees. If we're at a point in time where the balance of the board could go either way. I would work with both parties, which I have done most years in the past. So I'm grateful that Elizabeth was willing to step forward to do this. 00:43:20,000 S1: Thank you. Any other questions from the board or can I have a motion? 00:43:26,667 S4: I just want to say I trust whatever you think about on this. And, uh, but my question would be, is it is that the right size board for everything that's listed there? And responsibilities? Three people in yourself. 00:43:39,567 S11: So by law it is for people. 00:43:42,601 S4: That's law. Okay. 00:43:43,501 S11: Yeah, it's the law. And, um, the way I like to kind of summarize the history. Uh, boards of registrars existed long before there were any staff in a clerk's office. So they literally would be working in the office to accomplish some of the responsibilities and law. But as the years went forward and there was actually staff to take it on, the board is authorized to delegate those responsibilities. And that is one of the first things I do in January, as I meet with the board and officially get their vote to, um, to delegate those responsibilities. And, um, um, it's very clear in the instructions we get from the Secretary of the Commonwealth and it's in the law. There are certain things they can't delegate, like overseeing a recount. They cannot totally they cannot delegate that. They have to be at the recount. They have to have a majority, the board of registrars there. And then there are certain other ballots that get counted after the election, like the overseas ballots and things like a few things like that. And they have to they have to be, um, a present for those tasks. They can't delegate that to me or my staff. But I appreciate the question. It I appreciate it. 00:44:56,167 S4: Yeah. You do good work. Thank you, thank you. 00:45:01,868 S10: I'll make a motion to appoint Elizabeth Taft to the board of registrar voters. The town of Hamilton. 00:45:10,701 S1: Oh. Second. 00:45:11,267 S4: Second. Oh. 00:45:13,000 S10: Got that, bill Wilson. 00:45:13,968 S2: Thank you. 00:45:15,400 S1: Uh, any further discussion or comments? All right, so we'll do a roll call vote. Start with, um, Bill Wilson. 00:45:24,467 S4: Uh, Bill Wilson, I. 00:45:25,868 S1: Rosemary. 00:45:26,868 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 00:45:28,767 S1: Uh, Ben. 00:45:29,367 S10: Ben I. 00:45:31,200 S1: Tom. 00:45:31,701 S7: Tom Myers I. 00:45:33,000 S1: Airway mills and I thank you Karen I appreciate your efforts. 00:45:37,567 S11: Thank you to you. Thank you very much by Karen. 00:45:43,000 S1: All right. Next item. My agenda is approved. Juneteenth and pride flag raising for June. Discussion and vote. Um, I'll just kick it off by saying, um, this is what we talked about year after year. Um, part of our policy to vote it every year. Um, nothing's changed for me. I'm obviously in favor of it and, uh, and open it up for the board, but for me, it's just sort of a a process that, um, I'm ready to approve, but we're doing it. You know, our policy has it on a yearly basis, and that's how we're currently doing it. So, um, so I'll go around the room if we don't have a discussion or not, and then we'll open it up for any public comment. 00:46:20,501 S1: So, uh, Bill Wilson, any questions or comments on it? 00:46:23,400 S4: No, I think this comes every year to us. And I think, um, Yeah. No. No questions. 00:46:31,567 S1: Uh, Rosemary? 00:46:33,767 S5: No questions. 00:46:35,601 S1: Ben or Tom? 00:46:37,601 S10: Yeah. Just make a brief comment that, um, we received an email from the Human Rights Commission, and, uh, I believe there's sort of a there's a general feeling as well amongst some people in town. Um, received another email, I think, today. Um, from someone who's, um, you know, our policies, you know, they'd like to see those in potentially improved and enhanced. Uh, and one of the ways that they saw kind of fit to do that would be to start thinking about a policy that just, you know, somebody needs to bring it to a vote every year. Uh, they felt they'd be better representative if it became a policy that we just kind of do this, um, by rote every year. Um, so just for everyone's awareness, I took it upon myself to draft the potential policy that, um, just makes it kind of vibe. I don't know. By edict of the policy that these dates we fly these flags kind of and but it's more comprehensive than just these two items that are on our agenda today of sort of I've included a lot more as well about sort of where, where the American flag sits in that where, um, POW or Mia flag sit in this and sort of following best practices that national government and state government are currently following. So I submitted it to Joe to just get legal counsel review on it to see what we can and cannot do. So, um, I just thought we'd kind of kick start the conversation on that. And it's not something that we need to vote on tonight, but I think it's something we should be thinking about. 00:48:17,000 S1: Yeah, I agree. I mean, yeah, it has been an ask to change our policy and we kind of don't talk about it until we vote on it. So I think we would need to put it on it. Like you said, a new agenda item. Well, before we vote on it next year so that we can change the policy ahead of that. But um, but yeah. So let you look at it, let our council look at it and we can, um, put that on a future meeting well before next spring. 00:48:40,000 S7: So I, I agree with Ben wholeheartedly, and I'm glad you took the extra step of drafting the policy. I think that was great. And I think we had a long conversation about this last year. Um, so I'm 100% in agreement that this should be just an annual thing that we do. Um, and that it shouldn't have to be something that comes back every year for a vote. I think it does a disservice to this community and to this board. I think, you know, we want to show that we support our community and these groups that we that are represented by these these flags and on Juneteenth. So I think that we should, um, have it be an annual process. And I think the fact that we bring it back every year. Um, and even though I know and I'm confident that we will approve it tonight. Um, the fact that we even have to have them come here and deliberate and make a vote, I think is just respectful. And I think that we should have, um, it be an annual process. So I would go even a step further. And I think that as part of the vote tonight, the board should commit, uh, to, um, the annual process pending legal review of the policy. I think that we should, you know, you know, take that extra step tonight as part of our vote and say that we will make sure to take every legal avenue to make sure that that is our policy, uh, and pending review of legal counsel. Um, so I would I think that effort is needed, and I think it's well overdue. 00:50:10,267 S4: The fact that I have not even seen it, you know, I'm not ready to go say anything of that nature. I agree with everything you said, though, that, you know, every year we vote for this and we should bring it up, like Mr. Olson said, and and have a discussion on it. I mean, tonight we voted for a banner for the for a book sale. You know, every year we vote for, you know, seniors to have their pictures along the streets. And we we vote for a lot of things. And we should look at everything and decide what needs a vote and what doesn't. But I think it's a it's a bigger discussion and not an emotional one, if you will, to just kind of say, now that we're going to have that antenna. I haven't even read it. 00:50:46,167 S10: So yeah, I purposely. 00:50:48,367 S1: I think the intent, I think we could agree the intent that we would put it on a, on a meeting and we can make that, that within the next couple of months. We'll put it on a meeting agenda on its right. Um, I have no problem with that to, to put it on. 00:51:01,601 S4: Exactly. You know, shame on us for not after last. I remember that discussion last year. It was lively. It was it. We should have. We should have brought it back and revisited the policy. I mean, when the policies went from 22, I think. I think that's all we got to look at it. We should be looking at every policy within that window. 00:51:22,000 S1: So yeah, we have a lot of policies to look at. We talked about it last week, but no I mean this is close. 00:51:26,300 S4: To this one. 00:51:26,701 S1: For sure. Yeah. But um, so I yeah, I'd say I would say that, yes, I would say the, the that, you know, we have elections coming up in April. So they may or may not be new chair and you know after that election. But um, so it's hard to make a commitment as a chair. But I will commit that as a, as a member of the board that I, that. Yeah, that we should put this thing we should have, you know, do a straw vote that by the, you know, by the end of May that will have us on the agenda or something like that. I'd be willing to accept that. So I think that's a good I think that's a good, a good way to move this forward and, and commit the board to, uh, to taking a hard look at this. 00:52:04,467 S10: Yeah. 00:52:05,501 S1: Joe, any comments you have from the, from how much time it will take us to get a legal opinion on this? 00:52:11,601 S2: I as Ben said, I just got it today. I don't think Ben was anticipating having a discussion about it tonight, and I'm going to get it to town council tomorrow morning. 00:52:18,767 S1: No, just a time frame though. Like, do you think this is something that's reasonable to do in the next two months, or do you think it's longer or shorter? 00:52:23,567 S2: But yeah, I think I mean, it should probably take a month to month and a half once you introduce it and have a conversation, usually you do two readings of a policy. Um, and so, you know, once you get a draft of the policy that you're happy with, the town council is approved. You do a reading, have a discussion, you bring it back two weeks later, have another reading and another discussion, and then you could either vote that night or in a future meeting. So anywhere from two to 3 or 4 meetings to get it done. Once you have a draft that you're happy with. 00:52:52,267 S1: All right. So can I have a motion to approve the Juneteenth and Pride flag raising for June and a commitment from the board that will put this on an agenda? 00:53:03,567 S2: You do have members of the public with their hands up to speak. 00:53:06,467 S7: And I have one more time. 00:53:07,567 S1: We're going to do the motion first, and then we'll and then we'll do further discussion. Okay. Can I have a motion to approve the flag raising in June, and then. 00:53:16,868 S4: We approved the flag raising in June, and that we commit as a committee to revisit this in our policy within the next two months. 00:53:26,067 S1: And I have a second. 00:53:28,200 S7: Second. 00:53:29,467 S1: All right. Further discussion from the board before I go to public comment. 00:53:33,000 S5: I think my only comment would be if we're going to bring up this issue, we need to address the issue of flags and positions on issues in general. 00:53:46,000 S4: And I think Ben took a stab at it. Right. Ben, as I heard you say, it was more than just the two flags. 00:53:51,267 S10: Yeah. And it, you know, included. 00:53:52,767 S4: That's why I want to see it. I mean, I haven't. 00:53:55,267 S10: I did my best to kind of research, you know, typical protocols. And, you know, this is where I do think it needs some review probably as well from, you know, some of our folks at, um, at the post, the VFW and other places like that to make sure that we're also in a, in a position where we can follow best practices. So I included language around all weather flags. You know, trying to be respectful of all these groups. You know, that we try to honor in our community. Um, so it's it's fairly dry. It's pretty self-explanatory. I also included some language around, um, security measures and, you know, making sure that halyards and things like that, you know, can't be messed with too much or that we have if we have security cameras and if there's any vandalism that we take all the flags down until we get everything back up and operational. Um, so I included the. 00:54:47,167 S12: Policy before, and this it really comes up as a result of there's a short list for us, the City of Boston case that was decided a few years back now. And whether or not it's really comes up in the context of the First Amendment. So have you created a public forum? Do you intend to create a public forum? Um, if somebody comes forward and you do create a public forum, then you really can't just determine which flags get raised based on the content of the speech. So it's our recommendation that all cities and towns adopt a flag policy that sets forth exactly what it is that your intent is, so that you avoid potential liability, like what happened in the City of Boston case. 00:55:36,267 S10: The language that I found in my research, for what it's worth, was kind of around like government speech in terms of like recognizing the, you know, that it's a state holiday, it's state recognized and sort of and we're kind of following in those footsteps. And so, um, those were the kind of like the legal terms which are probably better suited to understand than, than me, but it's like a past that it obviously avoided the open meeting law violation stuff sends it to Joe and say, can we get a legal review? And then, you know, hopefully we bring it back for a bigger discussion. So. 00:56:11,367 S10: All right. Well, we have we had a motion. Is there a public comment? 00:56:14,767 S1: Uh, we just want to go back, Joe. We made a motion with the with the commitment that we would we would look at the policy in general within the next two months. Do we get a second on that? 00:56:23,367 S2: Yeah. Did by Tom Myers. 00:56:24,868 S1: Okay. So public comment. Um we'll go. So, Joe, if you can manage the room with the, with the timer and then we'll go on line. 00:56:31,100 S2: Three members of the public. First up is North Shore Counseling Solutions. Yeah. 00:56:36,467 S13: I, um, somehow my camera will come on, but my name is Ty Primo at Naples Road in Hamilton. I'm. I'm here also in support of raising the pride flag and the Juneteenth flag annually. I appreciate the thoughtful conversation around it. Um, you know, I'm also a clinical social worker, and I understand the power of acceptance for both our community, but especially kids. I understand that we're not looking for an emotional conversation, and that's fine. Um, but our towns, I think we would all agree both of these flags and the meaning behind them are especially important. 00:57:26,601 S2: Then we have anesthetic for everyone. 00:57:30,267 S14: Anesthetic. 227 Highland Street. Thank you, as always, for the opportunity to speak. Uh, I have a comment, but before that, I actually have a point of order for Mr. Olsen. I pulled up the policy in the background here, and there is no such language in the current policy that requires an annual vote. The language simply says the motion must be made by a member of the Select Board. References. Flag policy. References U.S. Flag code POW mia. Um, I would love to know the provision that you're referencing in the current policy that requires an annual vote, because I'm not seeing it. 00:58:01,567 S1: It's a it's a time duration. The policy is about a time duration, so we vote for a time duration for the flag to be flown. 00:58:09,167 S14: Right? So to that point, the time duration could be annually in the month of June. It doesn't require an annual vote, which is what you would said. 00:58:18,868 S1: I would have to look at that. I don't have it in front of me right now, but I'd be more than one to look at that. But that's not how we've done it for four years. It's not how we've done it. So we have precedent now that we do it every year. 00:58:27,467 S14: So yeah, I would argue that that precedent is founded on, um, yes. It's not in the policy at that point notwithstanding. Um, this is I think the third year we've had this conversation, at least the third year I've come before the board. And to echo all of what has been said, this discussion, this annual debate in and of itself, is is traumatic and harm inducing to have to have a conversation about whether or not we as a community have elected officials who are willing to exercise government speech in support of the celebration of the end of slavery and the inclusion of the LGBTQ members of our community. So I know that in some way. And again, apologies, Bill, I think that you are I do think you have the policy wrong. Um, but I think that notwithstanding this conversation is hurtful, to have it to have to worry that people have to worry. Is this going to happen? Is this not is anyone on the select board going to be willing to make this motion? I don't know that you are appreciative of the the trauma that that induces in the community. I would also argue, has been said by some people who've opposed this, that, well, we should only fight the American flag. Everyone can fall into the American flag. And there is truth in that, which is why the American flag should always be first. Right? That's the top flag. I support that 1,000%. However, the extension of what the Juneteenth and Pride flags mean, those are not issues of neutrality. So if you were to go back in time and say, well, you know, during the Civil War, we fought against slavery, but some people didn't like that. So, you know what? Since there is disagreement, We're not going. We're not going to fight that fight. Okay. That's the position of neutrality. If you go back to 1969 and you go back to the recognition of gay marriage, there are still people to this day who strongly oppose gay marriage. If the board adopts a neutral position and says, you know, I don't know if we should have to fly these flags or think about these flags. Some people oppose it. Yes, there will always be people who oppose it, but that's the whole point. That's why neutrality always favors the oppressor. That's the entire point of having these flags, is to show support for marginalized groups who have been historically oppressed, to celebrate what the flags represent. So to have to open up this conversation every year and have an existential conversation about whether the leadership of the town of Hamilton wants to fly these flags, creates harm, creates stress, creates agitation. It sends a message that somehow these issues are still in dispute. And I don't think they are. I don't think they are by anyone in this board. but having the conversation suggests that they are, and I think that's harmful. I think it's false. And as a practical matter, if town council is here, you know that flag policy is no more than four paragraphs. Again, there is no requirement for an annual vote. It simply requires a motion by the select board to specify a time duration. It does not require an annual vote. So I would take issue with that interpretation of the policy. I think you should move on it tonight. I think you should make it annual tonight. That's always been my recommendation, and I think I've made that point for 3 or 4 years in a row. Thank you very much. 01:01:35,267 S2: Catherine. 01:01:36,000 S4: Who's now well said. 01:01:38,000 S2: Catherine. Spanish next. 01:01:40,067 S15: Good evening everyone. Thank you for your time. Catherine Spano I live at 277 Linden Street in Hamilton. Um, I think a lot of what I think has already been said, but I just want to reiterate. Very supportive of flying the flags. Um, I think the key word for me is deliberation. This isn't something that should need to be deliberated annually. I totally support having a robust flag policy along the lines of what Ben was talking about, and I thank you for your time. 01:02:10,901 S2: In the room. We have Jamie Knudsen. 01:02:13,167 S16: Uh, Jamie Knudsen, 14 Elliot Street. Um, and just real quick, um, I agree with a lot of the things that have been said. I support that it be done sort of in perpetuity. Um, for a lot of the reasons that have been said, obviously doesn't mean that perpetuity doesn't mean forever, but it means until a future vote. Right? And I don't necessarily think it really I don't think it needs an additional policy. But respect the board for taking this up and for considering it. And I'll defer to the board and I look forward to the new policy that's coming down the road. I wanted to point one other thing, and I'm actually excited to hear about the security measures and things, because and I think this is important in just in the context. Right? I mean, the rights of, uh, some marginalized groups, including LGBTQ, are really under greater attack this year than I think ever before. And within the last year, the pride. When we flew the pride flag last June, it was vandalized, stolen, and as was the pride flag at the Hamilton Community House. And that's why we need to continue to support this. Thank you. 01:03:38,367 S1: Jamie. 01:03:39,167 S2: Bill Tye is asking to speak again. 01:03:42,567 S10: I think he got cut off. 01:03:43,567 S13: Yeah, yeah. 01:03:44,200 S4: He. 01:03:44,567 S1: Got cut off. 01:03:45,167 S13: Yeah, yeah. No. I apologize for taking up so much of your time. This. You know, um, I see these moments as really important. And the hopeful part, I think, is that our towns have an opportunity to to make sure the people that live here know that they are accepted and are loved here, and it's a real moment and can and especially today when we know kind of the the challenges of the world, if you will. And I'm not going to go too far into that. But but I think it's an important message that and it's allowing flags to be flown honestly forever is an important message. 01:04:31,167 S2: In the room, Katie Knudsen. 01:04:33,267 S17: Can't just let my husband speak. My name is Katie Knudsen. I also live at 14 Elliot Street in Hamilton. Um, Jamie and I have raised four children in this community who are now adults. Two of our children are black. Two of our children are gay. Our children are productive members of society and of this community. Our daughter Lily was the salutatorian of Hamilton Wenham. Our daughter Leah leads lots of Hamilton Wenham kids through the ropes course at Project Adventure. Our son Jacob is currently coaching Hamilton Wenham freshman basketball, and it seems to me just kind of ridiculous and offensive that this board yearly discusses whether the identities of our children and other members of this community should be celebrated. It does not diminish other people's identities when we celebrate the identities of LGBT and black members of the community. It's not the purview of the Select Board to decide whether Pride Month and Juneteenth exist. They exist. So it seems to me this discussion is really about whether the board feels it's appropriate to acknowledge these holidays, and that discussion does feel offensive and harmful to me. And I would really hope that we would think about our town's identity when we have these conversations. Do we want to be one where we have those conversations about whether we're going to acknowledge holidays that exist, that celebrate people who live here. I really do hope that we make a decision to be welcoming and loving to everyone in this community, and to not continue to annually discuss this. Thank you. 01:06:04,100 S1: That was everybody gone. 01:06:05,501 S2: That is everyone. 01:06:07,067 S1: Yeah. I mean, I appreciate everybody's comments. I mean, I just and and, uh, you know, someone used the word emotional not I'm, I'm just going to go more pragmatic. I'm not going to put the spin on our report is that we vote every year. And it was a positive conversation. I mean, we're in for this board enforced it. Everybody was for it. Nobody spoke against this word. And forcing and and and supporting this. And we're not voting whether it's a holiday or not. We're voting whether or not we're putting a sign somewhere or flag somewhere. So I mean, it's something we've done every year for the past four years. So I mean, I, you know, it's unfortunate that people feel it hurtful that we're sitting here and forcing and promoting it and backing it. But, um, but if we want to look at the policy, I'm one of five. Only 1 to 5 members want to look at the policy. Look at the policy. But I'm not prepared tonight to break precedent because I haven't looked at that interpretation well enough. But I 100% support. I've supported it every year. I wrote the policy, and I was the one behind the policy to make sure we could we could have the flags fly. So, um, and I think that by supporting it and emphasizing it every year at our select board meeting is an important thing to do. And, and I don't I don't think that should be a I apologize that's read as a hurtful thing to support it every year. But um, but like I said, I always do. Tonight, tonight I'm going to support the the motion tonight, which was the, uh, which was fine. The Juneteenth flag and and supporting to relook at the policy. I'm not sure, you know, if somebody else can make a motion and we can look at another motion, but I'm not sure how that would work, Joe. 01:07:31,601 S18: So I just want if I could just make a comment, Bill. 01:07:33,567 S7: Because, you know, I appreciate Anna and everyone's comments and especially with the referencing the the flag policy, because I hadn't taken a look at it recently and I just pulled it up again. And I guess this goes back to my comments for for town council, because when I'm asking about whether we need a specific policy to address flat flying this in perpetuity. I guess my question was, you know, what in existence to what we already have in place, and I'm looking at the policy now and is correct. There's nothing in here that puts a time limit. And especially actually under section four, it says that the select board shall determine a reasonable and customary for the um, I'm sorry, should the Commonwealth flag should be displayed for a period of time. It is reasonable or customary for the subject that is commemorated, which determination shall be made by the Select board. So it sounds to me like we already have the authority to determine the time period, and we can set a message here today that we are going to fly this for in perpetuity, or until a future board decide that's no longer a priority. And I think that's an important message. And I don't think this is an emotional decision. I think this is one that's going a welcoming decision, as it's been pointed out, of respecting all the individuals in this community and knowing that that is important and that is important, that we put that up there and we don't have to come back here every single year and deliberate and say, we are going to make it, even though even if we're 100% confident that every single person on this board is going to say, yes, we still have to have it on the agenda. We still have to make a decision. We have to deliberate, we have to vote on it. And to me, that is disrespectful to our community and we should. We as a board can send a message today that we are a welcoming community, that we're willing to accept everybody in this community, and we will fly those flags every single year until some other future board decides they're no longer a priority. And that is what I think we should do today. And we send that message today. 01:09:24,000 S2: There is currently a motion that's been seconded. Uh. 01:09:28,000 S4: Well, he asked legal a question. Right. 01:09:31,567 S2: Tom, do you have any or maybe. 01:09:32,968 S4: Maybe there's not an answer to that. It's more of a recommendation. I think what Tom spoke about was more, you know, mitigation of liability. And he Any reference. A Boston case, I believe. 01:09:45,267 S2: I mean. 01:09:45,667 S4: But I just I pulled up the policy too and kind of agree with what Tom just said. I mean, it does not preclude us from, you know, saying it's one year when we come every year, it says we can define the time in that section. 01:09:56,567 S1: For me, if council is thinks that's a good interpretation. So I'm going to make a motion that someone should make a motion. 01:10:05,968 S5: This has not been on our calendar to discuss. I think there are a lot of factors at play here, and I, I was under the impression that we were voting on these two flags to be flown in June. We were not voting to alter the way we enforce a policy today. I think there are a lot of issues that we need to discuss, and I think that we should stick to the original intent of this issue on our agenda for this evening. 01:10:40,467 S7: So I don't think we need to discuss a policy because it sounds like, you know, um, Ben did put together a draft policy, which we can certainly consider in the future, but my understanding is that we have a policy in place that's live and active, and it provides us the authority to make a decision on how long a flag should fly. And tonight, we should make a decision that every year going forward until, um, until otherwise, um, voted against. We should fly the pride flag starting on June 1st of every year, in the Juneteenth flag on Juneteenth of every year. And that should be the the motion, the decision of this board tonight. 01:11:19,567 S5: I disagree because we haven't discussed other parameters in a general flag policy. I absolutely disagree with altering this policy to benefit a subset of the general population. It doesn't negate the importance of that part of it. But I think I believe strongly that we need to discuss the whole policy before we decide what we're going to do in perpetuity, or until such time is exchanged in the future. 01:11:52,501 S7: I think the board should decide tonight, so I will make a motion to approve the Juneteenth and the pride flag, um, in perpetuity, so that the Juneteenth flag will fly every year on Juneteenth. And the pride flag will fly every year on June 1st and won't require subsequent approval from this board. 01:12:09,000 S5: We already have a motion and a second. 01:12:12,567 S2: I would like to know my Robert's Rules. Do we have to dispense with the motion that's on the table already, or can we take a second motion and amend? Tom, please help me guide this. 01:12:22,968 S12: Sure. In my opinion, you can, um, you know, rescind the prior motion if you wish to do so. Um, second, I believe on Tom's most recent motion, This should probably be a specific duration with respect to the pride flag. I think you said that it would start on June 1st. This should probably also be an end date as well. 01:12:45,601 S10: I have the same language here that might also be helpful. I drafted um, I guess council. Sorry. There's one last thing here that is important. Like for for us, it's not more important or less important, but it is an important consideration as if there is legal exposure. You know that like if this is going to I didn't hear something unequivocally to that effect that, you know, we can based on the policy that we currently have, that we're not creating any. So from a just. 01:13:17,868 S12: Sure, um, and I came here tonight to, to because we were going to talk about the town meeting warrant. So I was not expecting to be questioned about the flag policy. So I haven't read the flag policy. We did work on it, of course, and assisted the board in drafting that and provided legal guidance in that with respect to that document. But I have not looked at it recently. So certainly something we would take a look at again, and certainly will when Joe sends over the new draft policy. That's something we will look at in opinion as well. But as as I stand here today, it's not something that I've looked at in recent. 01:13:57,667 S1: I would like to. I would like to have two motions, one motion to do it this June and one motion to do it in perpetuity so we can, um, we can. So I think that's the right thing to do. But I'm one of five members and we already have a motion and we have a motion second. So who would need to rescind the original motion. 01:14:15,901 S4: Didn't mind. Do I rescind it? 01:14:18,667 S2: You. You made the motion, bill. 01:14:20,467 S4: I rescind my original motion. But I do want to ask one thing, Joe. Was there a something in our agenda or just the line item in the agenda that spoke to today? You know, just for everybody to see, like what? The date they go up, it comes down where it hangs, that part and that type of stuff. 01:14:35,300 S2: The the only thing references this is the agenda item says approved Juneteenth and flag pride flag raisings for June discussion and vote. That was how I was asked to present it, because nobody had approached me that they wanted to redraft the policy until today. So that wasn't this was this new conversation. So. 01:14:54,767 S1: So, so sorry, sorry. So back to what my suggestion, my suggestion was have two motions. One motion has we've already moved it and a seconded and then a second motion if we want to make it in perpetuity. But but I would like to do them as separate because the intent when we came tonight was to vote for this June. Intent was not to vote in perpetuity. So if we wanted to make that interpretation as part of me, I'm willing to consider that motion and the majority of the board can speak to it. But I think we still need to vote on the original intent, which was the intent that we've had precedent over since we passed the flag policy. 01:15:32,667 S4: We can do that. Then let's finish that if you'd like. And and then go to the second one. Right. So we have a first and a second if you want to do a roll call for that. If everyone agrees that'll be. 01:15:43,000 S1: We've already made. We've already made the motion. Seconded. So we're going to vote on that unless you will really want to rescind it. And then we'll do it. And then we'll accept the second motion from Tom or Ben, whoever had made that. 01:15:56,067 S4: So why don't you take a roll? A roll call on the first motion. 01:15:59,567 S10: Amend yours. 01:16:00,667 S19: Yeah. If you want to amend mine, if you have language, I'll have some. 01:16:04,000 S1: All right, so we're taking a motion on June 5th for this June. 01:16:07,868 S2: Starting June, you want to vote? The motion that's on the floor now? 01:16:11,100 S4: Yes. 01:16:11,467 S5: Well, wait a minute. Bill rescinded that, so he should revive that motion. 01:16:17,167 S2: Do you have a second or rescission? Just recommended. 01:16:20,267 S4: I move, um, that we approve the Juneteenth and Pride flag raisins for June, uh, for this coming year. It's coming to. 01:16:31,000 S1: Have a second. 01:16:33,367 S5: Second. 01:16:35,000 S1: Okay, we'll do a roll call vote. We'll start online. Bill Wilson. 01:16:38,100 S4: Yes, I. 01:16:39,767 S1: Rose Mary. 01:16:41,000 S5: Rose Kennedy I would yay to the Juneteenth and nay to the, um, prior. 01:16:47,467 S1: To what we're just. Oh, sorry. 01:16:49,501 S5: Um, I have I have a split vote, so I'm not sure I'll. Yay. Partial. Nay. Partial. So I don't know what that would mean, but I think is your combining two things. 01:17:03,968 S4: You'll have an opportunity for the second half of the question, which is perpetuity. 01:17:07,801 S5: Yeah, that's that's I. 01:17:10,100 S1: This is not perpetuity. This is, this. 01:17:11,767 S4: Is this for this year. 01:17:13,000 S1: Two flags we're going to we're voting two flags. She's. Yeah. She's voting. We're voting two different flags. She's voting yay on one and nay on the other. So oh. 01:17:20,767 S4: I see. 01:17:21,100 S20: I didn't catch that. Yeah. 01:17:23,000 S1: So, um, we'll come back to that. Um. Ben. 01:17:31,267 S10: Uh. 01:17:36,567 S10: Sorry. So we are. We have a motion on the floor from Tom that was not seconded. 01:17:43,067 S1: And we have an original story going on, but we didn't. We made a motion that was seconded. Would vote on the original motion. If Tom wants to make a motion after that, we were willing to consider that. 01:17:54,901 S10: All right. Then I vote in favor of raising the LGBTQ plus flag. 01:18:03,100 S1: I need I need an eye or a nay iron. Nay for both. 01:18:06,567 S4: We already made a motion. 01:18:07,601 S10: Sorry. 01:18:09,200 S1: Tom. 01:18:10,501 S7: Uh, I'm going to abstain on this one. Given that I don't think we should be doing a one time flag raising. So I'll hold my vote for the next one. 01:18:18,467 S1: Okay. And I'll vote. I so it's three one and one. Okay. And I won't accept another motion. 01:18:26,701 S10: I'd like to make an amendment to Tom's motion. Um. 01:18:32,367 S1: Make a new motion because we didn't really consider it. So make a new motion. 01:18:35,100 S10: And I'll make a new a new motion, um, that we follow an annual commemorative schedule in perpetuity, and that the following schedule shall be observed annually starting in 2026. Uh, until such a time as it's amended. For, um, the LGBTQ plus, um, pride month of June, that the progress pride flag shall be displayed at Town Hall and at Patton Park from June 1st through June 30th. Uh, and that a formal community flag raising ceremony, um, may be held at Patton Park on the first Monday of June each year and that on June 18th. June 19th for the 24 hour duration of of June the 19th. The Juneteenth flag shall replace the pride Flag at Town Hall locations to commemorate the end of slavery in the United States, and in keeping with the with a single masted pole protocol that we would only fly two flags at a time on any one single flag pole, and that the United States flag shall occupy the top position. Um, that's my motion. 01:19:56,467 S6: Second. 01:19:57,300 S5: And I move that we table this since we have not discussed this issue as a board table. 01:20:06,200 S2: The, uh, I believe your policy is that one member can table a new item on the first reading, so the issue is tabled. 01:20:18,300 S1: It's not a policy, Joe. 01:20:19,767 S2: I said that your that's that's been your practice. 01:20:22,367 S7: Yeah. This is a motion for a decision. This isn't a policy that hasn't been discussed. This is based on the existing policy. This is just to. 01:20:30,567 S6: Make. 01:20:30,767 S21: It a motion to amend. 01:20:32,767 S5: It's a motion to amend our previous methods of dealing with this. Therefore it requires discussion. We have not had any discussion. 01:20:43,501 S7: It absolutely is not. It's complying with the existing policy. Under the policy, we have the ability to set the duration of how long a flag flies, and we are complying with the existing policy. We are not amending a policy. This is not a first reading of a policy. I think it's inappropriate. 01:20:58,767 S20: I think. 01:20:59,601 S1: Rosemary, the policy that we wrote, we wrote with flexibility that gave the board flexibility to decide timing and duration. 01:21:07,100 S5: But we. 01:21:07,767 S1: Only. 01:21:08,100 S20: Purpose. 01:21:09,000 S5: We always discuss policy changes before. 01:21:12,767 S1: This is not a policy change. 01:21:14,100 S5: This is a policy change. It's a it's a change in the administration of a policy and to give it the time and effort it requires. I insist that we discuss this at an upcoming. 01:21:28,100 S1: And I get that. But I just want to make clear that we're not changing the policy. It's not about changing the policy. 01:21:32,467 S5: It's changing the way we've implemented the policy belt. And that. 01:21:36,467 S20: Requires. Right? That requires. 01:21:39,467 S1: And I get and I get the budget. I just want to make clear I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying yes. I just want to make sure not just want to make sure it's clear we're not voting to change our policy. We're voting how we're implementing the policy, which is we're allowed to do now, our attorney town council to tabling. That's when I get in trouble for later. Or do we have a tabling policy or is it just precedent? 01:22:00,200 S12: Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. I've never seen or heard of a specific tabling policy for the Hamilton Select Board, so if there is one, we could certainly review it, but it's not something that I am familiar with. 01:22:15,567 S2: There's not a formal process. 01:22:18,167 S10: It's just. 01:22:18,667 S7: A practice. 01:22:24,701 S1: I will accept a motion to table it and we can vote on that motion. 01:22:29,667 S2: Rosie made that motion. 01:22:33,100 S5: I don't think we've ever had to have a motion when somebody opts to table some something. I have given legitimate reasons. We have not had an opportunity to discuss this in regard to relationship to other flags and what the implications. 01:22:50,400 S1: And I agree with you, but we're a board of five and I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm in the same position you are. But we're a board of five and so we're not changing the policy. And Joe did bring it to my attention last year that we were not we were not executing our table policy correctly. That was not a policy. And I don't even know where it came from, but it came from somewhere that that we were unfortunately had been misquoting that for years. 01:23:14,701 S20: We have interpreted. 01:23:15,868 S5: The policy in a particular way, and that's. 01:23:18,701 S20: All. 01:23:19,100 S1: I'm saying. We don't really have a tabling policy that we tabled something that's somebody that came out of, somebody said it at one meeting. We went with it, but it doesn't actually exist to something that we need to do. So it hasn't come up again obviously until tonight. But but we don't have that. That's not something that we, you know, send the majority of the board wants to speak to something. We have to go with the majority of the board so we can make a motion. You can make a motion to table. And I want to vote in that motion. 01:23:47,701 S5: So the motion that we tabled this until such time is in the next 60 days, that we have a full and fair opportunity to discuss the implications of implementing this particular policy in perpetuity, vis a vis the other potential issues that are related to this, namely Other flags and how do we deal with that? I think it's an unfair, um, reading of this. Of of flag policy in general. 01:24:22,601 S1: Do we have a second on that? 01:24:30,100 S4: I read the policy now like 3 or 4 times, and I, I don't think we're breaking the policy here the way it's written. So I have a hard time doing that. But in practice, I think you're right, Rosie. I don't see the harm. But this clearly defines we have that authority to to change the duration or make it perpetuity. So I do think we have that ability as a board. 01:24:53,968 S5: Well that's not the question. The question is we haven't had as a board an opportunity to discuss it. I didn't know that Ben decided on his own to make, um, a whole new policy. I think that's, um. 01:25:08,501 S1: We're not voting on a policy. 01:25:09,901 S5: Well, well, we're. 01:25:12,000 S1: On implementation of existing policy. The implementation of the policy says that we can make a motion as a board to change the duration of the timing. And that's how we wrote the policy and that's how we voted on it. 01:25:21,868 S20: So it's not. 01:25:22,868 S5: How we've done that in the past. 01:25:25,267 S20: Correct for. 01:25:26,100 S1: This. But Juneteenth, right. We're changing how we're voting to delay tonight, but it's not against our policy to be able to change that. It's a surprise to me that we're talking about it this way. So I'm not saying it's not surprising, but it's not against our policy. 01:25:39,300 S5: Well, I strongly object. Obviously nobody is going to second this. I strongly, strongly object to this. I feel that it's, um, it's an ambush when we've not had an opportunity to discuss this fully. 01:25:56,000 S1: But I agree with you. And I'm feel ambushed, too. But we have discussed it tonight, and we have determined it is in our policy and allowed to do it. And we have a majority of the board that can vote on it or not against it. So as individuals, we can have our opinion, but unfortunately the will of the board is going to be the will of the board. And I'm in the same point. You are at rosy that I feel like it's not what I thought we were going on tonight, but but there's nothing that says that it's not where we vote on tonight, because it wasn't specifically written a certain way on the on the motion or on the agenda. 01:26:26,267 S5: Right. And therefore nobody has reviewed the policy in, in detail. Right. We've done it on the fly right here, but we have not had a full opportunity to review it, to analyze it, to to think about how we might want to improve it vis a vis other considerations. 01:26:45,467 S1: It's it's well, we have. Yeah. I mean, we have we have voted the flag to fly this June. And now we made a motion to table the motion to have it fly. You know, it's not going to be I'm not going to quote Ben's motion, but Ben made a very lengthy motion. So now that your motion was not saying we have to go back to Ben's motion. 01:27:10,267 S10: So usually after we have. 01:27:13,267 S1: So Ben made a motion and and Tom seconded I believe. 01:27:17,501 S7: Yes. 01:27:18,067 S10: And we usually then. 01:27:19,467 S1: And so further discussion on that motion. And I will go first with further discussion. I am going to abstain from it because I feel like Rosie does that, although I'm not 100% in favor of it, and I've always been in favor of it. And I wrote the policy, and I was the author of the original policy because we wanted to create the flexibility. But tonight, when I prepared for the meeting and prepared for the agenda, I did not understand that that's what we were voting on tonight. So I'm only voting in terms of process, not in terms of principle and process. For Hamilton, we've always discussed things, and we've done a very good job of building consensus and having a long discussion. So I'm not saying this is against our policy, but it's it's it's the process that I have a problem with tonight. So so I'm going to abstain based on based on process, not based on principle. So um, so that's my comment and we'll go around the room. If anybody else has any other comments. 01:28:11,100 S10: We'll start online. 01:28:12,601 S1: No, I mean we are glad people online speak. So so everybody's spoken. 01:28:17,367 S2: You're doing a roll call vote. You need to call the roll call. Roll. 01:28:19,701 S10: Well, no. 01:28:20,400 S2: I wanted to. 01:28:20,901 S10: Hear from if there was any additional comments from, um, Bill Wilson and from. 01:28:25,667 S4: Rowan. No, no, no. We spoke about it at length. 01:28:28,300 S7: I'll just I'll just make one comment. And I think that, uh, there will be a strong message. We send it to the community if we don't pass this tonight. And I hope it's I hope we make the right decision. 01:28:39,567 S10: I think. 01:28:40,567 S21: You know, you're you're you're not speaking about the whole. 01:28:43,267 S5: Community and, and and I take I take homage to that. There are some people in the community who feel one way, and there are some people in the community who feel the other way. So I don't think if we vote to, uh, table this until such time as we can discuss it more fully, that we will be harming the entire community. 01:29:09,100 S10: Mm. 01:29:10,501 S1: Yeah. We made the policy flexible because we know the policy is only as good as the board. And so we felt that when we wrote the policy that for the board to promote and enforce it every year was better than them not doing it. And then if another board came in and decided not to, it's something that we can't control because the policy is only as good as the board is. So voting in perpetuity, not perpetuity. For me, it was it was more symbolic than anything else. Because it doesn't really doesn't really mean anything because you still got to vote every year as a board. So that's kind of how we wrote the policy. That was the intent of the policy. That's why we did it that way. I understand why you guys were talking about it a different way. But, um, but, you know, it's sort of antithetical to how we wrote it and you guys were part of it. So I get that you're interpreting it differently, which I'm fine with, but that's sort of where my position is. So. 01:29:55,200 S1: I spoke and Bill Wilson, Tom or anything else before we go to roll call. 01:30:00,200 S10: Yeah, I just. I think it's important to note that it sounds like this. This conversation has been going on in the community for, for many years now. And I think that we're hearing from the community members who are most affected by this, this policy, that it's problematic. And it's, um. 01:30:22,968 S1: We haven't heard in a year, though, but that's my issue. We haven't heard in a year. We voted for last spring, and we're voting for this. And every year we vote for it desperately. And it gets approved. And we vote for lots of things annually, and they get approved and no one's offended. And it's part of the process. And we get to take a moment in the meeting to, to, to to show the importance of the event and the importance of the symbolism of it. And we move on to the next agenda item. So once again, it's not about I'm not voting on principle, I'm voting on process. It's not the process that we've done. But I. 01:30:54,501 S10: Think that we I guess what I'm saying. 01:30:56,467 S1: I don't think we're offending anybody. I just. I really I really offended that you think our policy offends people because that's it was written to not offend people. Right. 01:31:04,300 S10: So I think that what we're hearing is that it's harmful to a subset of our community, people who we want to all of us have said that we want to represent, um, and we want them to I, I'm hearing it from some people here that we want them to feel welcome in our community and that we do this every year. Um, and it what we're hearing, especially tonight, I think very clearly, is that that is not what we have been doing is not the best way to support them. But it sounds like we've had the conversation every year that we are okay to raise the the pride flag and to raise the Juneteenth flag, and that that is who we are in our identity and that we want to do that every year. So we're hearing both things at the same time. That everyone on the board, for the most part, wants to support those community members that we intend to do that every year we've been voted in to represent those people. We have a policy that enables us to stay out of any legal jeopardy and set a time duration of in perpetuity. I've read that in, um, and I think that's the best way to support everyone because of what we are hearing. And I think that it's well within our intellectual capability to make that judgment here tonight. Um, I would note it was not my intent to make this in perpetuity this evening either. It was my intent to say that we were making progress on this, knowing that this was on the agenda. I tried to follow a clean process so not to go outside of open meeting laws. And so. but based on this, the discussion tonight and the rational arguments and that have been made, the deliberation, the fact that this has come up every year, there's been every opportunity, every year to have meaningful deliberation. And so it's one of those things that feels like it doesn't get better with time. It feels like tonight's as good of a night as any, given all the dialogue that's occurred over all of the years. So I'm obviously in favor of this, but that's. 01:33:26,300 S21: So. 01:33:26,667 S5: I have another comment to make, bill, if I may. 01:33:29,467 S20: Yeah. Go ahead. 01:33:30,601 S5: Just that, um, we didn't come here with the intention of voting these flags or any flags in perpetuity, but the the residents who came here had that as their, um, purpose in speaking and in each one of them. So we have not had the opportunity to discuss this, nor have we had the opportunity to have people who may feel differently present their views, because there is a group of people here who are, um, of the same mind, and it's not the mind that we had intended when we came here. So I further object to this, because there are there's not an opportunity for other residents to come and express their opinions. We should not be changing the duration of this policy tonight for those additional reasons. 01:34:34,601 S1: Okay. Um, Joe, we've already. Is there any we've already let everybody speak in public comments. So we're still abiding by our public comment. Is there anybody new who hasn't spoken previously? 01:34:43,501 S2: Nobody would like to have nobody knew that. Hasn't spoken previously. 01:34:46,501 S20: Okay. 01:34:47,767 S1: All right. Um, it's because it's still the same topic. Um all right. So I'm going to go to roll call vote. We're going to start with uh, online. We're going to start with Bill Wilson. 01:34:59,400 S4: And so I'm a process guy as well. But I've been this has been a good discussion. Uh, it's similar to the one we had last year. So to Ben's point to it has been out there for a while. Um, the policy clearly doesn't require us to come back every year and vote in this. Um, and in fact, you know, our vote tonight is is only as good as the next board that comes back in April after the election. Right. So to your point, uh, Rosemary, I think, you know, this could be brought back as a policy and others can come in and talk to it. Um, if they have different opinions of it. But I do not think I'm a process guy. I don't think we're violating any policies here. Um, I won't be part of this board in April. I'm not running again. You know, so I think it's my one chance, really, to say, you know, I do feel like, you know, these flags should. Should fly in the month of June. I am concerned a little bit of creating public forums and what other flags come down the road. That's where I think. Tom, you had a great question to our attorneys. Are we creating an issue with any other flag or any other request? That's my only hesitancy in it. But, um, I think because we have the opportunity, if we do find out, that this creates risk going forward, this could be looked at with that lens in mind. But, you know, I would I would be fine voting this into perpetuity tonight until the next board brings something different to speak about. 01:36:27,567 S7: So so Bill, if I could just speak to that for a second because. 01:36:30,000 S20: Oh no no no no no. 01:36:30,767 S1: No. We're doing a roll call vote. No. We're doing a roll call vote. So Bill, I need an eye. 01:36:34,300 S20: On okay. 01:36:35,567 S4: A very. 01:36:36,167 S20: Verbose one. Okay. 01:36:38,167 S1: Uh, Rosemary. 01:36:39,701 S20: I'm sorry, bill Wilson. 01:36:41,167 S5: What was your vote? 01:36:42,467 S20: I said I thank you. 01:36:45,167 S5: Um. No, I'm. I'm nay. 01:36:48,767 S20: Uh. Ben. 01:36:50,601 S10: Ben. I. 01:36:52,767 S1: Uh. Tom, you can speak now. 01:36:54,167 S7: Tom meyers I. 01:36:57,267 S1: Um, so I was going to abstain because I wanted to have further discussion, but I don't. But since it's already approved, I don't want to go on record as being against this. So I will be voting I tonight. 01:37:12,801 S20: Okay. 01:37:15,467 S1: So 4 to. 01:37:16,367 S20: 1. 01:37:17,000 S2: Got it. Now, now for the easy part of our agenda. 01:37:24,367 S2: We have the town council here to help the board go through the warrant and, uh, have the board vote recommendations for the Warren articles. 01:37:34,467 S19: Just I just want to get back to the clerk. 01:37:36,868 S20: Um. 01:37:39,567 S1: Joe, I'm getting some feedback, but sorry. 01:37:44,767 S1: All right. So there's a lot. 01:37:48,167 S20: Of. 01:37:49,767 S1: Stuff to go through and read. And I'm. 01:37:53,968 S1: Having trouble put up on screen. So can you sort of go through them Warren. That'd be helpful if you went through the warrant. And then we could make motions on favorable. If we're going to do favorable motions that we're going to do. 01:38:04,100 S2: I think there may be a question about one, uh, when we get to it. But as of right now, most of the articles, I believe the board is indicating, uh, favorable action. So we'll we'll we'll discuss the, um, specialized energy code, uh, when we get to it. But, uh, starting with our goal. Two one compensation classification table. 01:38:27,467 S1: Sorry. What page is that on? There we go. All right. 01:38:31,000 S2: You want me to share the. I can share the warrant, copy the one I have, and. 01:38:34,367 S1: I get it right here. Okay. So. Right. So what? The easiest way for us to do this is for me to make. Do I have a motion Somebody and somebody and somebody says, so moved. And then I asked for a second. Right. And then we can vote at that point. So does that make sense for everybody? 01:38:51,367 S7: Yeah. So I'll make a motion on article 20. 01:38:54,767 S1: Sorry, sorry. These ways for me to say do I have a motion. And someone says so moved. So I'm just going to go through and make all the motions. Okay. And then someone will say so moved. And then somebody else says second. Got it. Does that make sense? 01:39:04,868 S20: Yep. 01:39:06,067 S1: Okay, so I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 2-1 second. So you have to say so moved. 01:39:13,367 S20: So moved. 01:39:16,267 S1: Do I have a second. 01:39:17,601 S19: Second. 01:39:18,968 S1: Any further discussion? 01:39:20,667 S5: Uh, just a question. Um, Joe, are you going to scroll the, um or not? 01:39:26,567 S19: Yeah. Okay. 01:39:28,100 S2: I was just trying to keep up. With what? 01:39:30,000 S19: Bill, there's too many motions. Take my notes before I'm all screwed up. 01:39:33,400 S2: Be right there. 01:39:42,000 S2: Sorry. 01:39:44,501 S19: I gotta get to this stuff. There we go. 01:39:46,367 S2: Okay. Almost there. 01:39:52,701 S2: Okay. Two. Two. One. The order of compensation. The classification table. 01:39:58,067 S1: Everybody see that? 01:39:59,100 S20: Yeah. 01:40:01,667 S1: All right, so we have a motion. We have a second. Any further discussion, Rosie? Any other questions on it? Or. You now see it and you're okay with it? 01:40:10,000 S20: Yep. 01:40:10,267 S5: I okay. Yeah. That's fine. 01:40:13,100 S1: And of course, I'm gonna do a roll call vote and take a little bit of time, but we'll start online with Bill Wilson. 01:40:17,367 S4: Bill Wilson. 01:40:17,901 S20: I. 01:40:18,667 S1: Uh, Rosemary. 01:40:19,701 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 01:40:21,567 S20: Uh. 01:40:22,701 S22: I, I. 01:40:23,767 S20: Tom. 01:40:24,267 S7: Tom Myers, I. 01:40:25,667 S1: And Bill I. So we'll just go in the same order every time. 01:40:28,267 S20: Okay. 01:40:29,167 S19: All right. 01:40:30,467 S2: Article two. Two bills of a prior year. 01:40:33,167 S1: Do I have. 01:40:33,667 S20: A. 01:40:34,467 S1: Motion to recommend action for article two? Dash two. 01:40:37,501 S19: So moved. 01:40:38,267 S4: So moved. 01:40:38,968 S22: Good second. 01:40:43,267 S1: Uh, so this is, uh, requires forfeit vote, and it's to, uh, to just pay $79.40. So I will take a roll call. Vote. 01:40:51,467 S20: Uh, bill. 01:40:51,801 S4: Wilson. Hi. 01:40:53,467 S5: Rosie. Kennedy. 01:40:54,267 S22: I Bengalis, I I. 01:40:56,267 S7: Tom myers I. 01:40:57,667 S1: Bill olson I. 01:41:00,067 S2: Article two three general town departmental appropriations. This is the main budget that lives within within the levy. 01:41:09,567 S1: So I have a motion to accept favorable action for article two. Dash three. 01:41:14,000 S21: So moved. 01:41:15,167 S19: All right. 01:41:15,467 S22: What was it? Second. 01:41:18,100 S1: Uh, yeah. This is the. This is the budget within the levy limit. So no override on this budget. 01:41:22,767 S20: Right. 01:41:23,667 S1: Um, any further questions or comments will go to vote from the board. All right. Oh, go in order. Go ahead. Online. 01:41:31,567 S20: Nelson I. 01:41:32,767 S5: Rosie Kennedy I. 01:41:34,400 S22: Ben Glover, I. 01:41:35,767 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:41:37,167 S1: Bill Olson, a. 01:41:42,467 S2: Supplemental town department and school appropriations. This is the vote that would authorize subject to an override. The going above the 2.5 minute. 01:41:54,167 S1: Um, do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article two? Dash four. 01:41:59,300 S5: So moved. 01:42:00,501 S22: Second. 01:42:01,067 S20: Second. 01:42:02,501 S1: Um. Further discussion. Do we still have John McGrath on? 01:42:06,267 S19: We do. 01:42:07,067 S4: Yeah. It's been voted on. Any of these. 01:42:09,100 S20: Items. 01:42:09,968 S1: Did you vote on this one? 01:42:16,567 S4: Is he on? 01:42:17,267 S2: He's he was on. I don't looking for him right now. 01:42:21,100 S20: Yeah. I don't see him. 01:42:22,167 S19: I'm still. 01:42:22,701 S2: He looks like he dropped off. Um, I was at the meeting. I do not believe they voted on this article yet. They, um, they voted on about half of the warrant, but, um, there were some that they didn't have. They didn't, for instance, have the information from the school district as to what would be covered by it. So I don't believe they voted on this one yet. 01:42:47,200 S1: But we've been talking for and planning for everybody, so I'm prepared to vote tonight on it. But if the will of the board wants to wait till votes speak up now. 01:42:56,667 S2: So I would ask that you try to do it now only because the comp is not going to meet again until March 31st, and then they'll be turning me in all of their book of recommendations on the first, and you have a meeting of the sixth. But the, the, the warrant needs to be posted by the third. So yeah, your next meeting wouldn't be until after that. 01:43:18,467 S19: Okay. 01:43:20,067 S4: So Joe, just can we have a little conversation? I guess so we have talked at length. I'm fine voting on this tonight, but and Joe, I appreciate what you sent out at least communicating some of the exposure and risks we have if we don't vote for this. Do you know what has or is intended to go out from the schools in a similar fashion? 01:43:37,100 S2: I know that Eric released something last week. I think it will share with you. I know he shared it with fin com. I'll double check tomorrow. I thought he had shared it with both boards. 01:43:44,667 S4: He did it with the boards I'm talking to like general population social media that they. 01:43:49,667 S2: Have released anything publicly. They've released that that list to the boards are out of courtesy to you, but they've got to wait for the school committee to vote before they can start to publicly. And that believe happens this Thursday or Thursday, I think. So they'll be releasing information, um, after their vote on Thursday. And, you know, the the social media messages that you saw this weekend were the first of a series. I think we're going to wind up with 10 or 12 messages released over time. Um, social media pages, uh, between now and the 11th. And then some of them will talk like the one this weekend about what is being shot on the town side. Some will remind people about the dates. Some will remind. We'll explain to people some of the pressures we're facing, the health insurance costs, the trash contract, etc. so we're trying to cover all the topics that have been discussed during the budget process, but in just an informational way. We're not what none of the messages will ever ask anybody to vote one way or the other. We're just presenting the information as to why we're asking for the supplemental appropriation. 01:44:57,801 S20: Perfect. 01:45:00,267 S20: All right. 01:45:01,167 S1: So we'll do. We're back to we're doing a roll call vote on recommending favorable action for article two. Dash forward to the supplemental town department and school appropriations for the to increase the levy limit with the override. We'll start online. 01:45:15,667 S4: Bill Wilson I. 01:45:19,667 S5: Mary I can't I can't vote for an override. Nay. 01:45:24,667 S22: Ben I. 01:45:26,467 S7: Tom Myers, I. 01:45:28,000 S1: Owe William Olson I. 01:45:32,901 S1: All right. Um, article two five. Capital expenditures of 1.257 million. Do I have a favorable motion? Do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 2.5? 01:45:45,367 S7: So moved. 01:45:46,767 S1: I have a. 01:45:47,100 S20: Second. 01:45:47,868 S5: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Bill. Did I just not vote for our. I'm so sorry. 01:45:54,367 S20: Sorry. 01:45:55,267 S1: What? What? You voted. What? You. You did not recommend favorable action for the override. 01:46:00,067 S5: Okay. Correct. Yes. 01:46:01,701 S20: Okay. 01:46:02,868 S22: Second. 01:46:04,667 S1: We have a second on capital expenditures. Article 2-5. And any further questions on that? 1.257. We've talked about it at length but anybody have any questions before we vote. All right. We'll start online. 01:46:18,701 S4: Bill Wilson I. 01:46:23,000 S20: Suppose Mary. 01:46:24,100 S5: Rosie Kennedy I. 01:46:25,567 S22: Ben Kaluza I. 01:46:26,667 S7: Tom Myers II. 01:46:28,167 S1: William Olson II. Okay. Article 2.6 is water enterprise budget. 01:46:35,367 S2: The. 01:46:36,400 S1: Do we have that request? Do we have a number for that, Joe? 01:46:40,267 S19: Uh, I don't have. 01:46:41,667 S2: It right now. It's, um. 01:46:43,801 S22: Option three. 01:46:44,601 S19: Was it? 01:46:45,400 S2: It's going to be option three, basically. Now. 01:46:47,367 S20: Okay. 01:46:48,000 S1: All right, so do I have do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for the water price and the water enterprise budget based on option three. 01:46:56,567 S5: So moved. 01:46:57,968 S1: Second. 01:46:58,767 S22: Second. 01:47:00,868 S1: Uh, any other questions before we go to roll call? Vote. Uh, online. 01:47:06,467 S4: Bill Wilson, I. 01:47:07,801 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 01:47:09,467 S22: Ben Kaluza, I. 01:47:10,467 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:47:12,000 S1: And Bill Olson I. Next item is article 2-7 which is the annual financial actions. These are transfers for our existing funds. Joe do we have amounts for these? 01:47:25,167 S2: I don't. Wendy had to. Wendy. Is it training? Monday? Tuesday? Wednesday. This week she's going to fill in the rest of these numbers. But these are basically a set amounts. There's the same amounts that we've had in years past for these funds. So the transfer from the cemetery sale of Lots and Graves Fund is to help with the cemetery purposes. The transfer from the Water Enterprise Fund is for what we refer to as indirect expenses. Those are the the, the duties that the town's finance office does to take care of the Water Enterprise Fund and to ensure the benefits for the people working in the Water Enterprise Fund. The transfer of the interest of the clerk fund. It goes to the Conservation Trust Fund for use by the Conservation Commission, and those are all annual. We do them every year. So, um. 01:48:10,667 S10: The. 01:48:10,767 S22: Order of magnitude on these. 01:48:13,167 S6: Uh. 01:48:14,367 S2: None of them are above 20,000, I think 20. I think the biggest one is 20,000. 01:48:18,467 S19: Okay. 01:48:19,267 S1: This we do this in theory reduces our tax rate, doesn't it doesn't increase. 01:48:23,067 S2: It allows us to not spend general fund money on those areas. 01:48:27,200 S1: So, um. 01:48:31,868 S1: So once again, do I entertain a motion except favorable action for article 2-7 for annual financial actions of transferred cemetery sale, water enterprise fund and clerk fund. 01:48:46,067 S5: So moved. 01:48:47,067 S1: I have a second. 01:48:47,868 S4: Second also goes down to their tax rate impact. Right? I mean, is that. 01:48:51,200 S20: Yeah. 01:48:52,000 S1: It reduces our tax rate. 01:48:53,200 S19: Reduces the tax rate impact. Yes. 01:48:54,667 S2: Has a. 01:48:55,000 S19: Positive. 01:48:55,467 S2: Effect on the tax rates, one. 01:48:56,868 S19: Of the few it does. 01:48:59,200 S4: It would be good to know the numbers that's all. But we'll we'll have that end a week or yes Friday. 01:49:06,000 S2: I'll make sure you all get a copy of the warrant as, uh, as adjusted for those numbers. 01:49:12,267 S20: Bill Wilson. 01:49:13,167 S4: Bill Wilson, I. 01:49:14,601 S1: Rosemary. 01:49:15,868 S21: I. 01:49:16,667 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 01:49:19,400 S20: Ben. 01:49:20,367 S22: O Danglars I sorry. 01:49:21,868 S7: Tom Meyers, I. 01:49:23,267 S1: Am Olsen, I. All right. Next one. Do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 2-8, which is the Hamilton Development Corporation. And once again, Joe not having numbers here. Hard to vote on. What do. 01:49:35,567 S20: You got. 01:49:35,868 S19: For that. 01:49:36,300 S2: Number this year is a $170,000. There was a one time adjustment by the state. They've confirmed it both with us and with the HTC. It was a one time increase. Typically this article is usually at 68 to $70,000. But this sticking with the town's policy that was adopted last year, we are moving to give the HTC the amount of money that was received last year and the, um, uh, the tax for dinner, the dining change, dining tax, so that additional 1% all goes to the HTC under the town's policy. Um the select the fin. Com did also researched this and they did vote in favor of this at their meeting last week. 01:50:24,467 S10: This was basically just money that they were owed that they hadn't been receiving in years past, or something to that effect. 01:50:30,367 S19: Yeah. 01:50:30,968 S2: Yeah. The state's not coming out and saying it, but the state saying that they needed to make a one time adjustment for, um, you know, funds that the town was owed, and that's all they'll say. 01:50:40,367 S10: So it would. 01:50:41,167 S19: Have. 01:50:41,968 S10: Been spread out over more years. But we're getting the one time. 01:50:45,267 S19: Yeah. 01:50:45,467 S2: So we we got the we we we actually questioned it when we, when we got the disbursement from the state last a year ago in July. And they confirmed it then they confirmed it again in October. And then the DC called themselves. 01:50:55,667 S20: Right. 01:50:55,868 S1: So this is not a transfer. This is not a tax. This actually comes from the state. 01:50:59,167 S20: Yes. 01:50:59,801 S1: Based on tax based on meals tax rate. 01:51:01,801 S19: Meals tax rate. 01:51:03,000 S20: Okay. 01:51:05,000 S1: All right. Um so do I have do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 2-8. 01:51:12,067 S22: So moved. 01:51:12,968 S7: Second. 01:51:13,601 S1: Second. I will start online. 01:51:17,267 S4: Uh, Bill Wilson I. 01:51:18,701 S20: Rosemary. 01:51:19,567 S5: Rosie Kennedy. Nay. 01:51:22,100 S7: Ben I Tom Myers I. 01:51:25,367 S1: William Olson I um, do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 2-9, which I ope trust fund, which is our yearly transfer of $125,000, which we've been doing successfully and been very beneficial to our town liability. So same thing we do every year. 01:51:47,667 S5: So moved. 01:51:48,767 S1: I have a second. 01:51:49,868 S22: Second. 01:51:51,868 S1: I was starting on. 01:51:52,501 S20: Mine. 01:51:53,100 S4: Bill Walton I. 01:51:54,267 S5: Rosie Kennedy I. 01:51:56,300 S22: The I. 01:51:57,100 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:51:58,467 S1: Bills. 01:51:58,868 S20: And I. 01:52:01,167 S1: Do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article two dash ten which our capital stabilization fund. This is to transfer $200,000 back into the fund to repay the money that we sent over the previous years to get back to our, our, our policy, uh, our policy limit. So this is part of the plan to, uh, to, to take the money to buy things and then to pay it back. 01:52:22,801 S20: Correct. 01:52:23,567 S21: Moved. 01:52:25,067 S20: Second. 01:52:26,000 S1: Second. Um, any further questions or discussion? 01:52:31,167 S1: Um, we'll start online tonight. 01:52:34,000 S5: Rosie. Kennedy, I. 01:52:37,167 S20: Ben. 01:52:37,868 S22: Oh, Ben. 01:52:38,601 S7: I Tom IRAs I. 01:52:41,267 S1: William Olsen. 01:52:41,968 S20: I. 01:52:42,667 S1: All right. Do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article two dash 11, which is community preservation budget, which involves. 01:52:52,968 S2: Yeah, it will only involve putting a percentage of, uh, this year's community preservation funds into each of the buckets and having an operating fund. So, um, again, this is something that you'll have the appendix for on Friday. Um, it would involve no awards to any projects this year. There were no applicants and no, um, movements by the CPC to fund anything this year, so a sum of money from this year's will go into the historic preservation account. Some of the money will go into open space and recreation account, and some of the money will go into affordable housing, and the remainder will remain in the general account with some small set aside. I believe it's about $25,000 to manage the CPC over the course of the next year. 01:53:37,067 S1: Right? So this is just this is just a vote to keep the funds, the funds coming in and being allotted to certain buckets, but not spending any money other than operational costs. 01:53:45,367 S20: Right. 01:53:46,567 S1: All right. So do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article two dash 11. 01:53:50,267 S20: Don't move. 01:53:51,767 S22: Second. 01:53:53,701 S1: Uh, any further questions? All right. 01:53:56,701 S4: We'll just go on the consent agenda. Agenda? Is that a different discussion? 01:54:01,000 S20: We could. 01:54:01,300 S2: Do that. We can do that one at the April 6th meeting. I just I don't I think usually do that with the moderator and fin com. 01:54:12,667 S4: Bill Wilson, I. 01:54:13,801 S5: Rosemary, Rosie. Kennedy I. 01:54:16,000 S22: Ben. Blues I. 01:54:17,167 S7: Tom Meyers I. 01:54:19,767 S1: All right. Do I have a motion to recommend? Oh, sorry. Bill. Tonight. Do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article two dash 12, which is the Hamilton Wenham Regional School District High school roof replacement project, which is asking to borrow $10.3 million. Um, and this is the first of the process, and then we'd have to go to a vote at the at the ballot box. So this is the first part of that, uh, that process for a roof replacement system. So moved I was second, second and, um, further discussion. Uh, did the fin com vote on this? 01:55:00,567 S2: I believe they did. Yes. 01:55:02,601 S20: Okay. 01:55:06,567 S1: All right. Any further other questions? I'm pretty specific in here now. It's written and it's part of our. 01:55:14,767 S1: Requirements in school. So it's not a question. We'll go to a roll call vote. We'll start online with Bill. 01:55:18,901 S4: Yeah. Bill Wilson I. 01:55:20,400 S20: Rosemary. 01:55:21,267 S5: Rosie Kennedy I. 01:55:22,701 S22: Ben Rosa I. 01:55:23,868 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:55:25,300 S1: Boy Mills and. 01:55:26,000 S20: I. 01:55:27,868 S1: Um do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article three one which is authorizing the town to to authorize or just giving the town the town authorize the select board to convey a portion of the real estate known as patent Homestead, and look for a buyer and negotiate a sale. 01:55:49,067 S5: So moved. 01:55:50,267 S1: I have a second. 01:55:52,801 S4: Second. 01:55:54,167 S1: I'll start online. 01:55:55,868 S4: Bill Wilson I. 01:55:57,067 S5: Was the Kennedy I. 01:55:58,667 S22: Bengals I. 01:55:59,801 S7: Tom Ayers I. 01:56:01,267 S1: William Wilson I all right do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article three two, which is the leasing of the town landfill property, which we listen to the the clubs are out there at a meeting a few weeks ago between the Gun Club and the Rod Club, and there were three recorders to which is to. 01:56:27,501 S20: Write Hamilton. 01:56:28,367 S2: One Rod and Gun Club will be this first one. 01:56:30,567 S20: Okay. 01:56:30,968 S1: Oh, sorry. There. 01:56:31,501 S20: Broken out. Yeah. 01:56:32,901 S1: Okay. All right. So this is. Yeah. Sorry. So this is just for the, uh, Rod and Gun Club. So I have a motion to recommend action for article 3-2, which is the lease for the Rod and Gun Club. 01:56:43,501 S5: So moved. 01:56:44,667 S22: Good. Second. 01:56:46,868 S1: Any further questions? We'll do a roll call vote. We'll go online. 01:56:50,467 S4: Bill Wilson I. 01:56:51,601 S5: Rosie Kennedy I. 01:56:53,467 S22: Ben Losa, I. 01:56:54,467 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:56:56,367 S1: And Bill Wilson I uh do we have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 3-3, which is the lease of the portion of the former Townsville landfill to the. This is the other one. 01:57:08,801 S20: Right sized river. 01:57:10,000 S2: Marsh. 01:57:10,267 S20: Rats. 01:57:11,100 S1: This is the marsh. River Marsh rats. 01:57:13,567 S21: Joe. Squirrel, please. 01:57:14,868 S20: Yep. 01:57:15,267 S2: Trying. Trying to do two things at once. 01:57:17,267 S21: I know why. No. 01:57:20,467 S1: Um. And any further discussion. Sorry. Who seconded that one? Joe. 01:57:28,100 S2: I don't do we have motion? I don't think we have a motion or a second. 01:57:31,400 S20: Second. 01:57:32,467 S1: So who moved? Sorry. Who moved. 01:57:33,801 S20: It? 01:57:34,267 S5: So moved. 01:57:35,701 S1: Second. Second by Bill Wilson. Any further questions? All right. We'll start online. 01:57:41,501 S4: Uh, Bill Wilson I. 01:57:42,801 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I. 01:57:44,267 S22: Ben glues I. 01:57:45,667 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:57:48,000 S1: All right. Do we have a motion to recommend favorable action for article three four, which is the prudent investment rule which is taking our existing rule and applying it to additional funds that we are allowed to do by the state. 01:58:02,868 S5: Some moved. 01:58:04,968 S1: Wait a second. 01:58:06,167 S20: Second. 01:58:07,100 S1: Any further questions or discussion? 01:58:09,901 S2: I did vote three. Nothing in favor of this. 01:58:12,400 S20: Yeah. 01:58:12,567 S1: I mean, this is a. Yeah. I mean, we're already doing it. So it's a good policy to continue to do it for and maximizing our return for our funds. Um, we'll start online. 01:58:23,901 S4: Bill Wilson, I. 01:58:25,000 S5: Rosey Kennedy, I. 01:58:26,567 S22: Ben Kaluza, I. 01:58:27,501 S7: Tom Myers I. 01:58:30,167 S1: And Bill's and I. All right. Okay. So on this last one. Um. 01:58:38,501 S2: Yeah. You have options here. I know that the board had seemed to be split at the last meeting. Um, you can make a motion for a recommendation of favorable action, or you can make a motion for recommendation of unfavorable action. Just be very careful that your vote matches your intent depending on what the motion is. 01:58:59,167 S1: All right, so. 01:59:01,601 S4: Um, does that mean. I'm sorry? Our intent. 01:59:05,868 S1: We can. We could. We currently trading the select board recommends favorable action. And for instance, if we don't recommend it, it would be 2 to 3. But we could also write the warrant. And the warrant that states like board recommends unfavorable action and have it be 3 to 2. So I don't know what the pros and cons of that are. I'm going to hear from the rest of the board. I am going to vote unfavorably for this. So I would look to the board to say, what's the better way of communicating this to the the town that. 01:59:34,567 S20: We. 01:59:35,200 S1: That. So that's kind of the question is how do we want to present it to the town? I don't want to get wordsmith it and do double negatives and stuff. 01:59:41,100 S20: But what's. 01:59:42,067 S1: The clearest way to the town to understand? I mean, we voted them all certain ways, but it changed. The word on this one would be maybe more confusing than just voting it, you know, favorable and then voting it down as a favorable counsel. 01:59:54,367 S22: That's a. 01:59:54,901 S21: Good question. 01:59:55,667 S5: Why are we changing the criteria for. 01:59:59,100 S1: It's just an option. It's just an option. It doesn't. We don't need to do it. 02:00:02,267 S20: But, um. 02:00:03,367 S12: Yeah. Mr. chair. I believe in the past that the way it has been done is if the board did not vote to recommend favorable action, then the vote was shown on the warrant as recommending unfavorable action. It's come up a few times, I think, with citizens petitions primarily. Um, those are the ones that I can remember off the top anyways, but it would usually be reflected as the select would, you know, whatever the vote was recommends unfavorable action under those circumstances, just so it's clear. 02:00:33,300 S2: The board also voted on favorable action on the school department's request for a reserve fund or stabilization fund, whatever that was. And despite the board's motion for unfavorable action, it was the motion for unfavorable action was denied by the town meeting and therefore it passed. 02:00:52,767 S5: Well, I think if we just write clearly where our vote is on the vote, and it should just convey what our vote is, right? And we won't know until we vote. 02:01:06,667 S1: All right. So do I have a motion to recommend favorable action for article 3-5. 02:01:13,000 S5: So moved. 02:01:14,300 S1: Do I have a second? 02:01:15,300 S10: Second. 02:01:17,000 S1: Any further discussion? 02:01:19,868 S5: So if okay, just to clarify, because it sounds like you want us to be careful if we vote in the affirmative, we are voting. 02:01:29,300 S20: To recommend it. 02:01:30,601 S5: For you to recommend it. If we vote nay, we are voting against it. Okay. Just so we all understand. Okay. 02:01:36,100 S1: And I just want to be clear on the record that I am voting against it. Not. But I support what our climate committee has done and what our community has done. I'm voting no because I think the state has a bad energy code write up, and I think they need to improve it before we go for it. So I just want to make clear it's not about our local Initiative. It's about. The state has not done a good job writing the code that I can support. 02:02:01,868 S5: And that has been my argument all along. I totally support our hike. I just for the reasons that I've talked about in the past, this is, uh, this is, um, a confusing, unclear code. Uh, developers that we've invited in have voted against it. Our building inspector has voted against it. And I think that we should rely on, um, people to people who are in positions of authority to only approve codes that are going to benefit our, our residents and not be confusing and potentially having unintended consequences. 02:02:46,300 S20: So maybe. 02:02:47,000 S1: I'll make a comment for. 02:02:48,000 S20: Your vote. 02:02:48,367 S7: Yeah, I'll make a quick comment because I'm going to vote for it. And I think it's and the reason is, is I think when I first joined the board and I've talked with many members of the community as well as members of this board, and we're constantly asked to find creative ways to, to, um, lower taxes or get more revenue or find ways to improve the lives of people here in Hamilton financially. And we don't have we have a limited tax base, we have limited development that we can benefit from. So we have to find creative ways. And and this is one of them. And we heard from a number of people, the builders, the town inspector, we heard from members of the member of the state that was on one of the calls in my understanding is that there's very there's not a huge impact on the community, and there's actually a huge benefit on the alternative. It sounds like the builders, there is some code confusion. It's not, you know, but that's any any person that works in a regulated industry. That's what code changes. It becomes their job may become a little bit more difficult for a while while they work through the new code. I mean, that's part of working in a complicated regulatory industry and anyone that works in that and understands that. So I sympathize with those people. But that's also part of their job to to understand what that code is like and, and how to adjust to it and make it work. From a cost perspective, there's very limited costs. I mean, I think the quote was, uh, 10 to $12,000 on a $2 million, a new home. I mean, that's, you know, cents on the dollar is what the actual builder had said. It was a nominal difference in making and building a new home. We build 4 or 5 new homes a year. There's some impact on ADUs. My understanding and major home renovations. But again, those aren't, you know, impacting every single homeowner. Those are very small percentage of people that will actually get impacted by it. And so there's very limited impact. And I think I think there's a lot of fear mongering. Last time I heard about rolling blackouts and all these big impacts and costs and and I really don't see it. But on the other side of it, I see a huge impact. I see the fact that we are going to be listed as a climate leader. We're going to have access to a grant where we can get $1 million. One of them could have that same access to a grant for $1 million. And there's a tangible product project that could actually benefit from that. The school roof, solar panels, which could benefit from that grant, which will be one good for the environment and two, good for our overall cost, and reducing the amount of energy that we're paying for for the school, which is a huge, huge benefit to the community. I think I think it is irresponsible of us as as stewards of the, the, the town's finances, to not recommend this when we are finding creative ways to lower the burden on our families here in the community, especially when we're raising taxes at town meeting, when we're raising the water rates, if we're not finding other ways to to balance that, then we're not doing our job as a select board. And so I think that if we vote against this, we're doing more harm than good. 02:05:43,067 S10: And I'll tack on a couple of things. Tom, you said it very well. I think that is our responsibility as a board as first and foremost as well. So, you know, represent the municipal corporation or financial health. And this is one of the ways that we can do that. Um, I'll note that a lot of the confusion that was coming in was around, you know, the the initial stretch code adoption that came in through the Green Communities program, which we were very successful at getting a lot of grants for. We were the I looked into this, we were the 36th, uh, community to enter that program. And under this next, um, under the specialized one, uh, the climate leaders program would be the 50 something 53rd if we were. So we also have a history and a track record of going in early. And that's what's enabled us to get those grants. And so I think, you know, I agree with everything that Tom said. I don't need to repeat it. Um, other than the green communities in the stretch code, that seemed to be the area where there's the most impact on some of the ADUs, and that has a lot to do with the size of the ad use relative to whether or not they're attached, and so we're already subject to most of that. Most of the discussion that we had, we are already subject to those additional complications. And we've worked through those, um, kind of as a developer, construction and inspection in our building inspectors. So, um, the new requirements are actually a lot easier to navigate when it comes to the new home construction of the homes greater than 4000ft², which there's a half a dozen of a year. Um, and then for the multifamily aspect, um, where we have a, a nonprofit multifamily building in town that's already been built to a passive house standard, I think with three A coming in, if we have any new developers coming in, they should be able to meet the standard that somebody, you know, designed and built to like they probably start the design on that three or 4 or 5 years ago, you know. And so they met a high standard. We're asking private developers if they want to come in here under three a, um, that they meet that same level of standard. So that's the multifamily over something. Ten 16,000ft² or something to that effect. So it raises the bar for everybody. I think we can't turn down the opportunity to access these grants. I think it's in our town's best interest. 02:07:57,367 S4: So I think the only grant is the school roof, which we can still get at, isn't it? Is that an action item to come back on the, I guess, 40% of the school roof? That was the only grant. I've heard that we've always. 02:08:07,868 S21: Done a great. 02:08:08,167 S4: Job with grants. 02:08:09,100 S5: Yeah, there's there's there's already. I spoke with Eric Tracy about this. There's already, um, a solar project in the works to provide roof. 02:08:21,167 S4: Right. He sent that note to us. 02:08:22,367 S21: All right. 02:08:23,167 S5: Exactly. And and so. And I think they're. 02:08:26,567 S21: They're. 02:08:27,167 S10: The grants for. So if we join the climate leaders program, we can apply the grant monies to any of our municipal projects. 02:08:36,300 S5: We can. Well, we don't have a guaranteed grant. We would have to apply for the grant. And, Vicki, Vicki Victim is someone. 02:08:43,501 S4: Has. 02:08:43,701 S21: To be punished. That is. 02:08:45,601 S20: Right. That was my. 02:08:46,801 S1: So I didn't see a straight line. I saw some financial benefit. 02:08:51,567 S20: Yeah. 02:08:52,400 S21: Exactly. All right. So I think we should. 02:08:54,467 S5: We should just. If we're going to discuss this, I'll just make a few quick points. First of all, there's no guarantee of any grants. And the line for the grants is pretty competitive. I think secondly, there's some misinformation about who's required to comply with the specialized code. Any new housing is required. Any detached ADUs that requires they they will all be required to put some solar on. They will be required to wire for eventual electrification. And, um. 02:09:32,901 S10: That's not what they told us. Rosy. 02:09:35,000 S21: Pardon me. 02:09:35,667 S10: That's not what they told us, that we had experts come in and. 02:09:38,367 S20: No. 02:09:38,601 S21: One said. 02:09:39,467 S5: Well, I would disagree because I had agreed. 02:09:42,167 S10: The experts that we had come in like this is where the. 02:09:44,400 S21: Misinformation was coming. 02:09:45,701 S5: Saying to you is, I had a discussion with the building inspector. We went over these changes in detail. And indeed, if you tear down half of any more than half of your property to to do a major renovation that counts as new construction, and we would be and whomever did that would be required to comply with the specialized code, which would include wiring, which does include some solar. So I think amongst ourselves, we're even confused about what this specialized code is going to bring with it. And so much so that, um, the state even has a specialized code enforcement person or in interpretation person. It's very complicated. There are so many changes that go on continuously. I think that we don't even within this, um, within this board, understand the full implications. And so it is it is too premature to vote on this, is to vote affirmatively on this and that. We do value everything that the Hamilton Environmental Impact Committee has done, and we will continue to support them, certainly, where this does not seem to be ready for general use in Hamilton. And just because other towns have voted it in, some have, some have it, does it mean that it makes us more sort of pressured to do it? We should do what's right for our residents. 02:11:30,100 S20: All right. 02:11:30,501 S1: We need. 02:11:30,901 S20: To. 02:11:31,467 S1: Move to a roll call, vote. Anything else? Make one last comment, but we should move to a roll call vote. We'll start online voting recommended favorable. So I means that you're voting for this article and it would be your against this article. So we'll start with Bill Wilson. 02:11:48,767 S4: Yeah. Bill Wilson. 02:11:49,567 S5: Nay Rosie Kennedy. Nay. 02:11:54,767 S10: Venganza I. 02:11:56,167 S7: Tom Myers I. 02:11:57,901 S1: Uh, Bill Wilson. Nay. 02:11:59,868 S20: Okay. 02:12:00,267 S2: So based on a three, a 2 to 3 vote on favorable action, we'll be structuring Tom the question as the select board recommends unfavorable action by a vote of 3 to 2. 02:12:10,767 S12: That's correct. 02:12:11,367 S2: And the fin com vote, I believe, will represent a recommendation for favorable action by a vote of three to nothing. 02:12:18,801 S20: Yeah. 02:12:19,767 S5: What did the fin com vote. I'm sorry. 02:12:21,767 S20: That was they voted. 02:12:22,767 S2: In favorable action 3 to 9. 02:12:24,501 S7: Because it's the right. 02:12:25,200 S20: Financial director. 02:12:30,000 S20: Thank you for the comment. Okay. 02:12:31,968 S2: Um. 02:12:34,167 S1: Joe, I have to jump. So I'm going to hand the reins here to Bill Wilson for the final topic, which is the school board. I mean, the school agreement update. 02:12:44,000 S20: Came. 02:12:44,300 S2: Before you. Can I just make an announcement that I was going to make under new business? I just informed the board that, um, as of this afternoon, um, Melinda Vining has accepted the position of Health and Human Services director, fulfilling the entire role that Theresa Woodbury had prior to her retirement from the town. Um, she was an internal candidate. She's worked very, very well with the town over the last two and a half months, three months. And she came in to help us. Um, she was very much the choice of the chair of the Council on Aging, who sent me a glowing recommendation that we should look at her. And she did great in the interview. Uh, but more important that she's done a great job in just a short time, uh, immersing herself in our leadership team and supporting Hannah and the seniors. And so we're happy to have her join. 02:13:31,100 S20: Great. That's great. 02:13:32,567 S10: Great news. Thank you. Joe. 02:13:37,467 S4: All right. Next up on the agenda is the regional district agreement update. So, as Tom, I believe you're on that committee with Joe. I know discussions have been going on, you know, for the better part of the last year. So any updates for the board? 02:13:53,767 S7: Yeah, I can give a quick update. So we're still actively working on the agreement. We've been meeting with, with the town committee, with the Wenham group, and we've been working with town council. Uh, town council just came back recently with some additional edits. Uh, back in February, there are still some open questions. Um, I think the biggest ones are questions around how we elect our, our, our school committee members. And the way to kind of solidify our current process is going to require a petition for our home rule petition. So we'll have to go to town meeting for a vote and to go to the legislature. So that's one major issue that we have to sort of work through. And then there's still, um, some ongoing discussions about, um, the cost allocation. So we were trying to get creative and find some different solutions to just the, um. Um, looking at, you know, the attendance or the, the numbers from each, the enrollment, um, for each town and sort of trying to adjust address that gap. So we had proposed a couple of different solutions. I think one of them, um, you know, they they have some alternative proposals. And, Joe, I think you have a little bit more detail on those, but, um, I think one of them wasn't, um, buying into those immediately. Uh, I think they're more interested in keeping up with the, the attendance and sort of maybe extending the years, the average of years that we're looking at. But, Joe, I don't know if you want to speak to the. 02:15:28,100 S2: So I think the board the committee, had been making good progress through October, I guess, of this of this previous year of October 25th. Um, then a couple of meetings that had been scheduled for various reasons had to be, um, postponed and rescheduled. So we haven't met since October. Uh, the town council. Lauren, uh, Goldberg from KP law had taken all of the information that had been agreed to in the meeting and held out some other open items and created a new draft. A little bit of update to the format to comply with the state's new model for regional district agreements. And as Tom said, their outstanding items remain around how we want to elect, uh, school committee members for the region. Uh, it will likely require a home rule petition in both Hamilton and one of them to be approved the way it is currently been verbally agreed to, and then the apportionment of costs. Uh, we are still doing a little horse trading on seeing what we can do to tweak that formula, and our hope is that as we get past the town meeting, we'll begin to meet, begin to meet again, and clear up those issues with the goal of having something ready by next annual town meeting. Uh, so April of 27. 02:16:56,767 S4: Is at some point. Will this go around as a draft or what kind of the or are. 02:17:01,167 S20: You going to wait? Yeah. 02:17:01,868 S2: Well, I think I think everybody in the room because it's still in negotiation on both sides. And the school district want to make sure that the people that are in the room, or at least are all in agreement. And what's in the draft before it shared publicly because everything it gets discussed now, lots of people have recommended all sorts of ideas for things and what we don't want. As to people say, well, for people to think that just because an idea was discussed that it's already been agreed to. It hasn't been. So we'll be hopefully getting to that point. Starting, I think, starting in the fall, we'd love to be able to start to familiarize people with things a good 6 or 8 months before town meeting in 27, so that it's not a surprise. 02:17:42,667 S5: Is there anything else up for discussion in the regional agreement? Um, Tom, that you haven't mentioned. 02:17:52,467 S7: Until um, I don't I mean, I think those are the major items. Let me look at my email. 02:18:04,167 S7: Was there anything that you were thinking of, Rosie? That you. 02:18:06,267 S21: Were? Well, I'm wondering. 02:18:07,367 S5: Where the where the discussion is on changing the town meeting. Vote for, uh, financial issues. Um, I heard some inkling about that. And you didn't mention that in your update, so I'm just wondering if if that's currently part of your discussion, changing the voting threshold from two thirds to simple majority? 02:18:32,267 S7: Yeah, I mean, I think the language in there just, um, codifies what's existing and there is a change to codify what's existing in state law, which would give the school committee, I think, on much of the exact language that's in the state statute, but basically gives the school committee the authority under statute to call an election. So, yeah, that just codifies what's existing in state law. 02:18:54,667 S5: With a simple majority. Is that what you're saying? 02:18:57,601 S7: Yeah, that's what the state law says. 02:18:59,667 S5: Well, that's what one state law says. So let's just be clear about that. It doesn't include, um, municipal municipal finance laws. Uh, chapter 44. So I just I'm sure your board is still discussing this, but I don't think that you should presume that that's the only option. And I think it would be unfair to residents to lead them to believe that you have to do this because it's codified in the, um, school district. Chapter 71, I believe it is. So I think that would require some serious discussion. Um, before we, uh, would, uh, ascend that as a body in, in the whole. 02:19:48,167 S10: Under ask council if there's been any case law. 02:19:52,267 S21: No, there hasn't. 02:19:53,100 S10: Been this or if there's been any like case studies that have had that have kind of tested this this thesis. 02:19:58,300 S21: No, no. 02:19:59,467 S10: Councils up at the podium. I was asking council. Thank you. 02:20:02,767 S12: So in response to the question, so that there is a difference between what the regional school district agreement does and what the state law says. So under chapter 71, section 16 De, which is the statute that governs regional school District borrowing. It's a vote. It's a two thirds vote of the regional school district committee to borrow. It's a majority vote of the member towns to vote, to sue, um, to approve that borrowing under your regional school districts agreement, it is a two thirds vote. And so that obviously takes precedence over the state law and the circumstance. So if they you know it, ultimately it's a policy decision. But if the regional school district agreement were amended to take out that two thirds requirement, then the vote at town meeting to approve a regional school district borrowing is a majority vote. It's still a majority. It's still a two thirds vote of the actual school committee, though. 02:21:08,567 S5: And at the ballot it would. Sorry, sorry, I'm just trying to understand here. I am not aware of any case law that says chapter 71 school district overrides municipal finance law. Chapter 44. Can you enlighten me on that? Am I? Am I incorrect on that? I'm not seeing any subtle any subtle about that. 02:21:32,701 S12: Right. So chapter 44 governs municipal borrowings as you indicated. So in under chapter 44, section seven eight and some other sections, it's a two thirds vote of town meeting to approve a borrowing. When a regional school district borrowing comes before town meeting. It's technically not a vote to approve the borrowing, because the regional school district committee votes to approve the borrowing. That is a two thirds vote. What the town's vote is by majority, whether or not to buy under the statute, it's a majority vote by the town to authorize, essentially to approve the borrowing that was authorized by the school district, the regional school district committee. 02:22:15,267 S5: So is there. I guess what I'm asking is, is there a case law that affirms that. 02:22:20,167 S12: That statute that confirms. 02:22:21,868 S21: That. 02:22:22,367 S5: A statute? Well, there are conflicting statutes, and I understand. 02:22:26,367 S12: No, they're not conflicting statutes, because chapter 71 is the statute that applies to a regional school district. Chapter 44 is the statute that applies to municipal borrowings. 02:22:35,467 S5: Yeah. I think the bottom line is who incurs the debt the town's due. 02:22:39,767 S12: It's technically the regional school district's debt, but the town's obviously pay for that pursuant to the allocation in the regional school district agreement. 02:22:50,667 S5: Well, I think there will be a lot of discussion about that. I understand your reasoning. I, I don't agree with that, and I will we'll see what happens. 02:23:02,667 S12: No, I understand the position and I don't necessarily disagree that it seems kind of unusual that a town borrowing is a two thirds vote, but a regional school district borrowing under the statute is at the town meeting level is only a majority. But that's how the statute is written. And if you choose to change it through the regional school district agreement, which is what currently is in place, you certainly have the ability to do that, but that's not what the statute reads. 02:23:31,567 S20: Just just. 02:23:32,501 S2: To clarify. Two, I know that there's been some conversation back last summer among the the committee that's negotiating the changes that this could be presented to town meeting in multiple votes. So there'd be a base set of changes to the regional school district agreement, and then other things that we expect would get engender. Much more discussion may be presented as separate votes to amend what had just been passed in the and the base agreement. So we're kind of a long way from some of these where we're trying to get to the agreement on the basic agreement and then address how we might handle things that we expect will engender a lot more discussion and debate on some floor. Is that right, Tom? 02:24:11,767 S20: Yeah. 02:24:12,367 S2: So. 02:24:13,100 S4: Um, which is a smart approach, I think. You know, like, there's a lot of cosmetic issues and all sorts of errors in grammar. So that would have been nice to get that behind us. But these are big items. So appreciate the update. It sounds like there's three major discussions right. The election of members um, kind of the borrowing thresholds, you know, from town meeting and uh, what what's uh, regulated out there and, and statutes. Um, and then the, uh, apportionment, right. How we allocate it, I think, and it sounds like there's a long runway for all three of those. I think what this board probably wants to make sure happens is there's opportunity to dig deep on each one of them before a 90% draft comes back. 02:24:52,667 S20: Gotcha. 02:24:53,467 S2: Understood. So I'm going to try to get the the group to have a meeting in April as soon as we can after the. My request is going to be of the other participants so that we can get a meeting so that we can, um, identify what we can bring back to the select board, because the select boards, And eventually the cops will ultimately have to make recommendations. 02:25:13,467 S10: Is that initial request then through an executive session or something like that, or how does that work? 02:25:18,100 S2: I'm not sure that we can do it in executive session. Um, discuss the draft of the regional district agreement, Tom. 02:25:23,467 S12: No, that definitely would not fall within one of the purposes that are allowable. 02:25:27,567 S20: We aren't. 02:25:28,467 S10: That's fine. I guess I was wondering if if we're trying to get early eyes on it, then. 02:25:34,167 S4: It's probably executive session, to your point. 02:25:37,567 S20: Okay. 02:25:40,667 S20: Good. Anything else on a motion? What's that? 02:25:45,067 S10: Oh, nothing. I was saying, will you entertain a motion? 02:25:47,167 S4: I'm ready for. 02:25:47,667 S20: That. 02:25:48,467 S4: Let it fly. 02:25:49,000 S10: Then I'll make a motion to adjourn. 02:25:51,868 S20: So I could roll. Call. Vote. Uh. 02:25:55,267 S4: Roll call. Vote. Start online. I can say Rosie. 02:25:59,167 S5: Rosie Kennedy, I Ben. 02:26:01,701 S7: Tom Myers. 02:26:02,300 S4: I got him in the room. Bill Wilson I and I appreciate everyone's time. That's a wrap. Thanks. 02:26:07,100 S21: Thank you, thank you.