00:01:12,067	S1:
Good evening, everyone, and happy New Year. Welcome to our first Planning Board meeting of the New Year. So at this time it's 7:01 p.m.. I'm calling the Hamilton Planning Board meeting to order. Uh, the first order of business is to take role. We do have an associate member appearing by zoom, so I do have to do that. And I know also that this meeting is being recorded. Uh, so when I call your name, would you please indicate that your present Pat Norton present. Jonathan.

00:01:48,100	S2:
Poor Jonathan, poor present.

00:01:50,000	S1:
Bill Wheaton.

00:01:51,000	S3:
Bill. Wheaton. Present.

00:01:52,400	S1:
Dahlquist.

00:01:53,467	S4:
Abel. Dorcas. Present.

00:01:54,601	S1:
Darcy. Dale.

00:01:55,667	S5:
Darcy. Dale. Present.

00:01:57,100	S1:
Matt Hamill.

00:01:59,000	S6:
Matt Hamill present.

00:02:00,467	S1:
And Jeff Austin.

00:02:03,300	S7:
Jeff Austin present.

00:02:04,467	S1:
Imani Crouch present. And I believe Beth her is intending to join us. She might just be a little late. So the first item on our agenda is a site plan and a stormwater management permit application. So Mark, could you please read the public notice for the stormwater management permit application?

00:02:29,701	S8:
Sure. The Hamilton Planning Board will hold a public hearing to review a site plan review and stormwater management permit application pursuant to Mass General Laws. Chapter 48, section nine and Hamilton's Zoning Bylaw, section 10.6 and General Bylaws section 24, or I'm Sorry 29. On January 13th, 2025 at 7 p.m. at the Hamilton Wenham Library, 14 Union Street in Hamilton, Massachusetts. The applicant, Myopia Hunt Club, proposes to construct an 11,128 square foot maintenance facility with associated storage, fuel bay and garage facilities to service the existing country club and hunt club at 435 Bay road. Assessor's map 56, lot 12, zoned R1, B. Anyone wishing to speak on the matter is but invited to attend the hearing. The application associated materials are on file and available for review electronically or in person by contacting the Hamilton Planning Department at (978) 626-5252, or planning at Hamilton. Margo.

00:03:35,767	S1:
Yes. Is there someone here from the Myopia Hunt Club who wishes to make a presentation?

00:03:42,567	S9:
Ah, yes. My name is Anthony Donato from Hancock Associates, the civil engineer of the project related to the site stormwater and civil aspects. And with me is Rob Olson from Olson Architects. Uh, the, the architect and Jonathan Wilbur, who's the facilities director at the Myopia Hunt Club. Um, we do have a slide presentation on.

00:04:13,667	S9:
Um, okay. Your next plan. So, um. One second. Sure.

00:04:25,467	S9:
Thank you. Mark. If you could go to the next slide, please. Um, here's an overview of the site. It's, um, over 200 acres. Uh, as you can see, we've highlighted the the locus where the facilities, uh, currently exist and where the new maintenance facility is going to be. Um, as you can see, it's it's it's very it's in the central part of the site. Not visible from any of the butters or the, um, the road. And if you go to the next slide, Rob Olson can kind of go over the, uh, the structure a little bit and I can come back and talk about the site.

00:05:19,868	S8:
It's coming.

00:05:21,601	S9:
So just introduce the project.

00:05:23,067	S2:
The purpose of this project is to consolidate the club's maintenance operations, which are currently headquartered in a in a brick building right here, uh, where they're offices in a shop. Uh, to take all of those and integrate them into one facility. The proposal is to build this maintenance building here. Um, the purpose of it will be to take all of the equipment which is currently stored outside, and put it under cover, which will be a big improvement in operations. That permits the club to consolidate the site, um, create a circumferential circulation pattern for deliveries and movement, and to relocate the Huntsman House, which is located here, to a new position north of the site where it's allied with the equestrian facility. So, in other words, to move the residential activity out from the middle of maintenance, there are some significant environmental improvements as a result of doing this, which is part of the purpose of the project. One is to remove an existing underground storage tank which is in the front of the building here existing. It's for the storage of fuels, gasoline and diesel. Um, to remove that facility and place it above ground in a fire rated above ground tank with containment and dispensing and proper dispensing on a containment slab with fire protection. We're going to take that facility and we're going to move it here where it's underneath a canopy. Um, for the fueling of vehicles. Uh, the other big improvement in this building is we're taking all of the, um, the liquid fertilizer and pesticide storage and consolidating it in one place close to where it's used and diluted for use on the golf course. So those activities are currently, um, east of the building here. They're going to be incorporated in a new environmental center, which is at the end of the building here, which will have dedicated storage for pesticides, fertilizers, all with sumps for containment, uh, and area for filling vehicles for using it on the golf course and a recycling system, which is located in the building here, which will recycle any water used to wash down vehicles, any water, excess water that's used for the dilution of fertilizers. And if there is any kind of spill that occurs anywhere in this area or in the wash down here, it all flows into a sump where it can be contained and everything recycled. Um, that sort of standard. That's a standard, uh, type of environmental treatment for handling these materials and being able to incorporate this in the building. It's a big improvement, um, in the site overall. So interior storage of equipment, um, above grade, proper management of fuels, uh, improve handling and management of fertilizers and pesticides. And the new facility will have full fire protection system as well as fire alarm. Um, the other thing that, uh, main purpose of this project is to house all of this activity in a site design which is compatible with the surroundings and buffered from the golf course. Uh, this is very far away from any public way, and it's not viewable from a public way or in a Butters house. Um, but nevertheless, the character of the landscape and the golf course is extremely important. The members enjoyment of the club. So the the building has been placed behind the existing brick building, where it's buffered from the surrounding golf course by plant existing planted boundary along the golf course, which were augmenting the equestrian houses, moved out the frame area at the at the at the north part of the site, and again site circulation is designed to be confined to this site in one circumferential pattern. We've reviewed this with the fire department missile requirements for fire access. Um, and we can drive vehicles in here to do deliveries, pick things up and not impact the operations of the club. Um, so you have the next slide. Maybe we can just show some of the enlarged plans of the building. Um, it really showing these for programmatic purposes.

00:09:41,167	S2:
This is, uh, this is a floor plan of the building, which, um. And Tony will get back to the storm drainage when this pops up, when we get to that. So here you can see more. Whoops. That's the last slide. Go to the next one.

00:09:59,367	S2:
Perfect. So this just shows a little more detail of how how the building is organized with, uh, storage, cold storage equipment, unheated storage equipment here. The environmental center is here, contained by a mezzanine, an insulated space and heated space. The wash down for vehicles is through this covered bay with a sump here, and the fuel fueling and containment slab is there. Um, could we go to the next slide?

00:10:31,467	S2:
So this is a little different from if you're looking at what we submitted last year to you, to the planning board. There's one change in this project which you'll see on this plan. There were two dormers here which were there for for reasons of aesthetics and also for get a little extra head height. We've just been the project and we can't really afford to do those. So we've taken them off and we want to update the plans and we've updated the views. So if you're looking at the old set, you're going to see something that's just modestly different. So we can go to the next slide.

00:11:06,400	S2:
This is the this is the elevation of the building. It's a very simple building. It has a masonry base. It has a metal siding walls. It's basically a systems building. It's been marked with the canopy at one end here where we drop down and reduce the scale. Um, one thing about the building is everything. Everything is essentially one color, which is when you're dealing with the building, like with that, it's an achievement. But because we have to work in the system that we have, it's really an industrial building which we've masked to be compatible with the campus. We can go the next slide.

00:11:41,767	S2:
So this is I'll take you just on a tour around the building so you can see its appearance and how it's designed. This is beginning. This view begins at the central part of the campus, uh, at the clubhouse on the other side of the clubhouse, where there's an oval. Turn around. And this is looking at the existing brick building here, which is where the maintenance head offices, along with the shop, um, to the left, behind the existing trees is the equestrian facility. And the new building is in the, in the yard behind. We've located in mastic to sort of make it a quiet presence and screen it with the brick building. We can go to the next slide. Uh, this is just a closer view showing really the detail of the building, its repetitive nature, how its massing, uh, is relates to the existing barn on the west side. We go the next slide, please.

00:12:37,667	S2:
More of the same. We can go to the next slide. This is the view from the north looking back where you can see this is the the fuel bay here which is under cover, the washed down bay which is under cover. The environmental center is in this bay of the building right here. And then the cold storage piece is from this downspout all the way back. And that's the brick building. So we can go to the next slide. So this is just an overview which shows the massing of the building as a standing seam roof. Um very straightforward. On the far side is aggregate storage for use on the golf course. And beyond that is an existing and is existing barn which is staying. Next slide please. So now we're going from the north side back to the south with the with the main building there. This is the kind of vehicle that needs access to this site for the delivery of aggregates. So it's a you know, it's a semi. This is we'll drive through the site next slide please. And then these this slide and the next one are just really to show the way in which the building has been designed to live within the complex of the existing maintenance facility and the equestrian facility on the other side. This is an existing buffer of trees along the third hole, which weir will reinforce and augment when we're done with construction. And then the last slide gives you an overview of how this building has been designed and mass to fit in this little complex of the small barn, the large equestrian barn, the outbuildings here, placement of the new Huntsman House, existing maintenance facility and the new proposed building. So that's an overview of the architecture and we'll use this. Sure. Thank you.

00:14:30,067	S10:
Okay. Um.

00:14:36,968	S9:
Thank you. If you could go to the next slide. And I just want to point out that we did go before the Zoning Board of Appeals for a continued nonconforming use, and we were approved for that. End of last year, I believe it was in November. One other thing I'd like to point out to is that there's not going to be any increase in employees or sewage generation from this project. Um, there'll be some temporary, um, extra vehicles during construction, but once construction is complete, there's no new generations anticipated from this project. Um, and as Rob had stated, the new maintenance facility is in the middle and new pavement and truck access around the new maintenance facility. We ran truck templates around it and it can adequately drive around the site. Um, the new road out to the relocated Huntsman House will be, uh, of gravel in nature. Um, and if you could go to the the next slide.

00:15:40,501	S3:
Um.

00:15:41,367	S9:
This is, uh, the grading in our stormwater management plan. The roof water off the the new building will be collected. Um, it will be into a closed drainage system. Uh, there's a couple of new catch basins, structures. There'll be four foot sumps and gas traps on all the catch basins. There's going to be a water quality device before it discharges to a stormwater management device, a surface pond, a grassed pond that will control the rate and runoff. So there will be no increase in either the rate of runoff. Um, realize post development from pre-development conditions. Um, it's all managed on site. Is an outflow out in the back of the site. Um, and as I mentioned, uh, there's other than that, there's some sewer work that we have to redo. Some some drain lines, a sewer line relocation. But there's nothing that we have to do that involves redoing of the septic system on site. The soil absorption system. If you go to the next slide, please.

00:16:48,667	S9:
And again, this is just, um, this is our site utility plan. Um, you're not including the grading. And if you go to the next slide.

00:17:03,200	S9:
And I guess that's just that's an existing conditions plan. So Rob had stated, I mean, the site it's basically it's going to improve operations for the Myopia Hunt Club. It's going to be a betterment with regards to storage of chemicals inside the building. Um, improved stormwater quality runoff from the site. And, um, just just improved operation for the club. I don't know if you have any questions regarding the presentation or the application being filed.

00:17:35,000	S5:
Are you replacing buildings? Are you removing any buildings other than moving the residential house? Are there other buildings that you're replacing?

00:17:44,200	S3:
There are some several, um.

00:17:47,968	S2:
Hard to explain improvised storage facilities, which are containers. And we're we're taking those out and consolidating. There's also a two. This is actually a good plan. This these two little shed rows here. Um, those were originally built for horses stabling. We're going to we're going to remove those. And those operations are consolidated in the equestrian barn and the pony barn over here. Um, these are the these are the elements we're removing on the plan. Those are really ingenious. Those are two containers with a roof built over them. So parked vehicles under. So one actually one of the goals of the project is to remove those and put them in a proper facility. But other than these, these elements, here are the shed rows. We are not removing how other structures this Huntsman House is the structure that we're going to.

00:18:40,801	S3:
Move.

00:18:41,767	S2:
To the new location north.

00:18:43,200	S10:
Of the.

00:18:44,200	S2:
North of the equestrian.

00:18:45,300	S10:
Facility.

00:18:46,167	S5:
And how long do you think it will take to complete this?

00:18:50,367	S2:
We're planning, if God willing, and the planning board willing. We'd like to start in the spring, in March, sometime in March, if possible. And we we want to be concluded by December.

00:19:02,467	S10:
Oh, great.

00:19:03,367	S5:
Thank you.

00:19:04,100	S1:
I have a question about the stormwater management. Um, I assume that the manure from the horses, and I think they're probably stabling for 20 to 30 horses on the site. Is that handled separately and trucked off to Brick Ends farm?

00:19:20,667	S2:
Right. The manure, the manure that's generated in the barns is put into a dumpster, which is currently right in the middle here. And if we go back to the site plan, we can go back to the original plan.

00:19:34,067	S10:
I'll show you the.

00:19:35,767	S2:
Provisions for that. Um, actually, if you go back to the go back to like the fourth view, just scroll up. We're actually putting it in a place where it's more easily managed, but it's still going to be the same operation in it.

00:19:49,767	S10:
Oops.

00:19:51,000	S2:
Yeah. If you go down.

00:19:55,100	S10:
Um.

00:19:56,067	S2:
One more. Okay. To the right. Underneath right here is where the new manure pit is. So that's going to be a new a new pit for manure. Um, to deal with that problem.

00:20:14,067	S11:
When you relocate the fuel storage facility, is there any consideration of checking for any contamination in the existing location.

00:20:24,000	S2:
Yes, that's part of the removal. Although, um, Jonathan has tested every year test that area and has tested the tank, and we don't believe there's any contamination or leakage, but that's part of the removal gets removed.

00:20:40,400	S4:
Does the state attend that? Does the state attend that review of the condition?

00:20:46,868	S2:
Say that I'm not I'm not entirely sure.

00:20:49,100	S9:
The fire department I think the fire department.

00:20:50,868	S2:
Yeah.

00:20:51,167	S4:
Fire department. Just the fire department, but not the DEP or something.

00:20:54,868	S11:
It doesn't require a 21 e um, process.

00:20:58,501	S9:
I think only if there's a spill.

00:21:00,100	S2:
I think the the protocol is to sample around the tank, make sure that there are no problems, and if we're good, then.

00:21:08,100	S4:
And report it to the state because that's they would take over in the event there were a problem. If there were a problem. Is it tank steel? Is it tank steel?

00:21:16,667	S2:
It's a double. It's a double wall fuel tank.

00:21:18,801	S4:
Oh. Double wall.

00:21:20,267	S2:
Yeah, it's So the whole wall shield thing. It seems like it's in good shape and it's more, more a question. It's not being moved because it's in trouble. It's being moved because there's a better way to do it. Sure. Yeah.

00:21:32,601	S1:
So with respect to the chemicals that are used on the golf course, um, how will this, um, stormwater management plan address those chemicals? Because when you wash the equipment, they will go into the stormwater pond. And so how will those chemicals be addressed so that they don't really pollute the ground and get into the groundwater?

00:21:59,901	S2:
So washed out of we could we go to the larger plan, which is the third to fourth slide from the paint. So the way that's handled is with a separate wastewater treatment system. And right here this is good. So, um, this area, each one of these, uh, rectangles with the lines indicates a sump with positive flow from anywhere around it. So these are 3 to 4in lower than any other part around the building. So there are four of them. There's two in these rooms up here. And that's where the material is stored. So we don't anticipate that it's going to be handled or opened in those rooms. But should something happen? Um, there are large sumps built into the ground to contain any kind of spill, um, outside where the wash down occurs. There's another sump here. And that sump is the purpose of that sump is to contain all of the water that's used to wash down a piece of equipment, along with anything that comes off of it, like grass clippings or anything like that. Um, it goes into this sump here. This sump is connected, uh, so it can be pumped out to this piece of equipment here, where the water that comes out of this goes through kind of a cascading, cascading system where it separates out the grass. Then it goes into this system here, which is the treatment system where any kind of trace chemicals or anything is treated by the control system, and that becomes water that can be that's clean, that can be used in this operation for diluting pesticides, for use on the golf course. So it's a closed system. And then the other sump which is here is also a protection sump. This is where um, this is where the um the materials are diluted. This is the mixing station over here and put into sprayers. So anything that happens in this room that lands on this floor will go to this sump, where if it's a spill, it can be retrieved and recycled. And if it's just general wastewater, it becomes part of the wastewater treatment system. I'll add that the club is also sealing this entire slab with an epoxy coating, which goes up with a hygienic base around the whole building. All the spaces in here where there's any handling of of any of those materials. The floor is built, built in that way and reinforced proper joints. So they're really looking to have a very proactive way of avoiding the kind of problems that concern you about that water going anywhere else.

00:24:44,367	S4:
Are you also.

00:24:46,100	S3:
Doing the vehicles in that wash down area?

00:24:49,100	S2:
No, the refilling is off here to the right. So this is where.

00:24:54,267	S3:
The drive up is on the containment.

00:24:55,868	S2:
Slab, and this is where the tank is. And then this is the dispensing station.

00:25:00,868	S3:
For filling your vehicle. Okay. So it's.

00:25:04,868	S2:
It's on the other side.

00:25:06,167	S3:
Here. And also like a grease trap separator. And take that out. Well it's on that side.

00:25:11,868	S2:
Yeah. It's a containment slab like you'd see on any of any of.

00:25:15,100	S3:
Your.

00:25:16,300	S2:
Fuel.

00:25:16,601	S3:
Stations around here in. The size of the fuel tank that's above ground. How many gallons is that?

00:25:21,868	S2:
It's, um, 50, 1500 gas and 1500 diesel.

00:25:26,000	S3:
Okay. Pretty small tanks.

00:25:27,801	S2:
And it has its fire rated, and it also has a container for its full capacity built into the tanks. So if anything should happen to.

00:25:36,267	S3:
The tank, all the fuel tanks within the system.

00:25:43,100	S4:
Just just to be clear, is it. Am I correct that the under slab containers could contain the entire fuel? That's in the, for example, in the building could contain the full volume of those tanks.

00:25:59,100	S2:
Contain everything that's.

00:26:00,100	S4:
Stored there? Not. No, that's not a requirement unless it's it is a requirement in some cases, but maybe not in this case.

00:26:08,701	S2:
As far as I know, it's.

00:26:09,901	S4:
Like over an aquifer.

00:26:12,400	S3:
Okay.

00:26:13,400	S2:
These. These materials are typically in one and two gallon jugs.

00:26:18,767	S4:
Yeah.

00:26:19,601	S2:
Um, there's some I think, um, which are in larger containers.

00:26:23,400	S3:
Generally they're.

00:26:24,667	S2:
They're they're handled in small quantities. Yeah.

00:26:29,567	S3:
Sometimes the containment in the fuel storage area needs to be sufficient to hold some amount of, like, a duration of the fire suppression. Like if the sprinklers were let go. Yeah. The contains some.

00:26:43,868	S4:
Yeah, exactly.

00:26:44,467	S3:
That's amount related to some period of time in which.

00:26:48,667	S4:
Because you give.

00:26:49,200	S3:
Out a you wouldn't want that.

00:26:50,467	S4:
You got doors there that, you know, if there were a massive spillage it would go out into the general warehouse. It looks like to me. But anyway, um.

00:27:05,400	S1:
Does anyone else have any questions? Anyone?

00:27:08,000	S4:
Well, can I just.

00:27:09,167	S1:
Oh. I'm sorry.

00:27:10,167	S4:
I just got one more question. We didn't see the lighting layout, but I do have a question on the fixtures. I did notice in some of your renderings that you showed lighting fixtures mounted on the side of the building. Is that your is that your your your soul lighting source then on the building?

00:27:28,300	S2:
First of all, we want to have no up light at all.

00:27:30,601	S4:
So you have a cut off and all of those fixture on each one of those.

00:27:34,701	S2:
Okay. So the fixtures that we use are collections of fixtures. So they're sort of in the the spot blood family. But they come in with being cut off. Okay. The purpose of that is twofold. We don't want to have any.

00:27:51,200	S3:
At.

00:27:51,367	S2:
All. And then for the environment around the building we want to control.

00:27:55,000	S3:
The.

00:27:55,100	S2:
Things. So that's not affecting the golf course or anything.

00:27:58,367	S4:
Yeah. And what's the lighting source you're using.

00:28:00,601	S2:
They're they're.

00:28:01,200	S4:
Led led. Okay.

00:28:04,801	S3:
Do you find says toxic cold storage. Is it a.

00:28:08,367	S2:
Oh it's unheated. It should say unheated storage.

00:28:10,767	S3:
Okay, so it's not cold refrigeration.

00:28:14,901	S2:
Yeah. They call it cold. Cold storage. Simply because we're not heating.

00:28:18,267	S3:
Because you're not heating.

00:28:21,167	S3:
Were there any other like sustainability? You mentioned some of the features that are, uh, more efficient than what the current set up was, but there is any other, like, efficient, uh, sustainability goals of the project as far as sourcing materials or things like that.

00:28:38,367	S2:
The building meets stretch code for energy, which we're warehouse is pretty cool.

00:28:42,467	S3:
I think that's a building code requirement. But like beyond beyond that and the sustainability elements, um.

00:28:49,901	S2:
Decided to go for a 30 year roof, which is, you know, which in terms of replacement is a positive thing. Otherwise, the real focus of the building is managing these environmental operations.

00:29:07,100	S3:
It's going to be like a butler type building that you're like procuring or are you going to steal, stick, build the.

00:29:15,501	S2:
So it's a combination of things. So the basic the basic building here is a pre engineered metal building. So that you're probably familiar with the the these main clear span structures are rigid vents. Um when we get to the um the environmental center, which has a mezzanine above it, we're going to conventional scale so that we can do our insulation. We have, you know, have a reasonable structural debt, and then we have conventional canopy. So the rendering that you saw reflects that design intent. So the and the walls and the roof are all done with standard PM Kurtz so it's a hybrid. It's a hybrid.

00:30:03,200	S3:
Okay. Thanks.

00:30:09,167	S1:
Thank you. Would any step to the podium, please, and identify yourself and give us your address?

00:30:21,868	S5:
Hi. My name is Kathy Lenoir, and I live at 66 Homestead Circle. So I'm directly across the marsh to the north from, um, where this building is going to go. And I have three, three concerns. Um, it all actually makes total sense to me to consolidate like this, but I have three concerns. Being in a butter. Um, one is has already been addressed. And that was the lighting. I'd like to hear that. It's, um, that it won't be disturbing the wetlands habitat and all that rich wildlife. Any more than than it will need to. Another concern that I have are the mature trees that are there along the edge of the marsh. They actually provide a green shield for us. Um, for most of the year. But during the winter months, right now, I can see all the buildings there. Um, through the, you know, the bare trees. So my hope would be that those existing trees won't be removed during construction, because if they are, it's going to take 20 years to have new trees grow and create a buffer, in which case I won't be there anymore. Um, so I would just hope that those existing trees would stay that are along the edge of the marsh. My guess was be that they have to as a wetlands compliance. Um, so that's one question I have. The other concern that I have is, um, is noise. There's a there's a lot of noise, actually, that happens for nine months of the year at the golf course. And so a lot of machinery that starts at 6 a.m. or earlier, which is earlier than the 7 a.m., um, noise by law. My concern is there's going to be even more noise coming from one central building, with all those garage doors going up and down and the beep, beep, beep of the trucks as they back up to get ready to start the day. I'm concerned about that. As an A butter, I am an early riser. I like to be out on my deck early in the morning. And, um, myopia is a great neighbor with that one exception. And I'm just concerned that there'll be more noise. I don't know if that's appropriate for this meeting or not, but that is a concern that I have.

00:32:31,667	S12:
So thank you. Thank you.

00:32:41,000	S4:
My name is Tom Daschle. I live at 60 Margaret Road. Uh, I don't abut the property, but I can see it. And I'm across the street from Homestead Circle. But anyway, my concern, first of all, is, is I am I correct in presuming that you are moving gas that's stored underground to make it above ground fuel?

00:33:02,267	S2:
Yes.

00:33:03,100	S4:
What is the purpose of that?

00:33:05,601	S2:
It's a safer way of handling the material than putting it underground.

00:33:10,100	S4:
But we have a volunteer fire department, and I just was curious. If anything goes wrong in the susceptibility of a major fire is a lot higher than if everything is contained underground, isn't it?

00:33:22,801	S2:
Well, the tank is fire rated. It has its own containment, and it'll have its own state fire protection system over it. So from that point of view, for something that might happen from dispensing fuel, I think it's much safer than what exists. And talking with Ray. He's been, like fully supporting and trying to get this done for years. But he's been recommending to go.

00:33:46,567	S4:
So there is there is water down there to fight things or what? You know, you're not going to have to bring in a whole new fire protection system.

00:33:53,200	S2:
It has its own chemical fire protection system. Okay. It's actually in the rendering. If you want to see what it looks like. It's similar to what you'd see at a gas station, except it's dedicated to the. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

00:34:04,467	S4:
Um, you know, our neighborhood, I assume I've been there for over 40 years. It's pretty quiet. It's pristine. And I just wonder how much, again, the prior woman's comment about noise. Is there going to be a constant hum, that building going to create some kind of just every night and day?

00:34:24,467	S2:
I don't know what you mean in terms of maintenance activity.

00:34:27,467	S4:
No, just the general. You know, it's a 12,000 square foot building. It's going to have a noise of itself at night. Like, you know, it's so quiet over there. Once the, you know, the course settles down.

00:34:37,000	S2:
Yeah. I don't know exactly what you mean.

00:34:41,200	S4:
Just energy keeping the pumps.

00:34:43,868	S2:
No, no, that's, um. There is there's no heat in the building. Um, the electric service for the building is actually in the maintenance facility. There's no transformer noise. Um, the environmental center itself. Um, the heat in there just simply are just simply fan coils. I mean, it's there is no, there's really no.

00:35:06,400	S4:
It's not going to be lit up like Fenway Park.

00:35:08,000	S2:
No, no, no, no, I was just understanding you. Yeah, there's no mechanical noise because there's no mechanical.

00:35:13,000	S4:
Okay? Nothing at all. There won't be anybody working on, uh.

00:35:16,167	S2:
There's a fan inside which will blow, you know, clear out if there's a problem with any kind of any kind of fumes or anything.

00:35:23,567	S4:
So the fire department has blessed this project from a they can control. Anything goes wrong. They can with all the gas that's going to be over above ground. Okay.

00:35:33,267	S2:
Before we even proposed it here. Great.

00:35:36,968	S13:
And then I can address the noise for the equipment. So we're talking.

00:35:40,000	S2:
About.

00:35:40,267	S13:
That. Yeah. The hope, the hope with the project would be to hopefully reduce the noise. Because right now we're we're in so many different parts of the facility and it's so tightly packed that we what you're hearing, like the back up noise and getting everything going is kind of spread out and it makes it difficult for us to get around where this is consolidated in one area. It's going to make it easy for us to maneuver out of the east side in the morning. I'm sorry, the west side in the morning. Um, and we're also not adding any additional equipment or anything like that. Same thing. Like any larger equipment. Everything's going to be inside now. So the hope would be to reduce. And then to your point, like all of the trees, we're saving every big tree we can. We're not going to touch any of the trees on the march. Um, and then like.

00:36:28,567	S9:
Would it be fair to.

00:36:29,467	S14:
Say that there's, there will be equipment operated inside the shed that currently is outside the shed, and therefore the noise would actually be, you know, a little more suppressed than having all that stuff outside.

00:36:43,000	S13:
Exactly. So everything is pretty much currently outside and it's really tightly packed around that house. So we're constantly having to move five different pieces to get at one piece. Where. Now it's as simple in and out. Um, so it should help suppress a lot of that noise. And then, like Tony spoke to when we're done with the project, um, we have a lot of big, mature trees that we're going to save, and we're going to add some more landscape to this whole area because it'll kind of get it off the golf course and give us some more planting areas to also put some more mature trees in to hopefully buffer the maintenance facility.

00:37:19,100	S12:
Thank you.

00:37:20,167	S5:
My very biggest.

00:37:21,100	S12:
Concern, though, is that that big line of really old trees would be lost during the construction, and I really hope that that's not the case.

00:37:29,100	S13:
Yeah, that's that's not the goal. Yeah. We want to save whatever we can for the for the same reason. We want a buffer on the golf course for the golfers as well. So we're going to try to improve it.

00:37:37,868	S12:
If anything it would be pretty cool owls out there too.

00:37:40,300	S13:
Yep.

00:37:43,901	S1:
Is there anyone online who wishes to make a comment. And so did you.

00:37:53,801	S1:
Okay. So, um, thank you for your presentation. I'm sure. In speaking with our planning director, you are aware that no member of the planning board is an engineer. At least not an engineer qualified to review your plans. So it's customary in these circumstances that the Planning board engage a professional to review your work product and advise us as to whether what you have done is 100% fine, or whether the expert might have a few recommendations for the Planning Board and for your consideration. So, um, I think that, Mark, have you conveyed the estimate for the engineering firm to, uh, myopia?

00:38:42,901	S8:
I have not just got it today, but it's, um. I have a paper copy. Um, it's a total of $6,000. 4000 for the plan review in 2000 for contingency. The town would typically hold that as a as a, um is a fund that we would the the engineer would build the town directly and that would come from that fund. That myopia would provide the town. Um, and I've asked for a time estimate. I know that they'd like to get moving. So I think the review can be completed within two weeks. The Hancock would then have some time to review the plan, review the comments and respond to them, and revise the plans if necessary. Um, so likely one of the February meetings would be a realistic time to put the application to.

00:39:37,467	S1:
Gentlemen, is that satisfactory to you?

00:39:39,868	S2:
Yep. Yeah.

00:39:40,968	S1:
Okay, great. So at this point, I will we will then consider the site plan. When we do the stormwater management.

00:39:49,367	S14:
I'm sure we have two approvals, right.

00:39:51,701	S1:
Site plan and.

00:39:52,767	S14:
Site plan and stormwater. I do feel the need for an engineering study on stormwater. Yes, planning.

00:40:00,767	S1:
It's not for the site. It's not. It's just for the stormwater. Okay. The site plan doesn't require that. And and obviously it's very well contained in the center part of the campus. So I don't foresee any problems with the site plan. Um, so at this juncture, I'll entertain a motion to continue the public hearing on the stormwater management application and simultaneously the site plan.

00:40:25,767	S15:
So moved.

00:40:26,767	S14:
Seconded.

00:40:27,801	S1:
Okay. So when I call your name, would you please indicate your assent? Pat.

00:40:32,100	S16:
No, I just have a quick question. Is that for the next meeting we are continuing it or are we continuing it to a February meeting?

00:40:38,167	S1:
We are doing it to a February meeting. Mike, do you. Should we continue it to a date certain in February.

00:40:45,667	S8:
You do have to do it.

00:40:46,767	S1:
You do have to do that. So we will continue it to.

00:40:49,868	S16:
Every third or the 24th.

00:40:51,567	S8:
Or third of the 24th.

00:40:53,000	S1:
I think probably the 24th is the safest. It gives everyone enough time. And if the engineering firm has some questions for you, you can respond. And hopefully then on the 24th we can wrap it all up. So we we will.

00:41:09,501	S14:
Madam, madam chairman, could I suggest maybe the third since they're a little bit anxious to get going on the project? Is that is the 24th.

00:41:17,000	S17:
We can always.

00:41:17,667	S16:
Continue it on the third.

00:41:19,267	S14:
If it's the 24th of February or.

00:41:22,167	S16:
24th of February.

00:41:23,467	S14:
That's a little.

00:41:24,067	S2:
Late to the third.

00:41:25,501	S16:
Yeah. Then we can continue to the next meeting. We need to.

00:41:28,901	S2:
Yeah, we can come back.

00:41:31,367	S1:
Right. That's fine. That's fine. Yes. Thank you for that. Well, we'll do that. So could someone revise the motion to continue this to to our February 3rd meeting?

00:41:41,567	S18:
I want to revise it to continue this process to February 3rd.

00:41:46,200	S14:
Second.

00:41:47,000	S1:
Okay, so when I call your name, would you please indicate your assent? Pat Norton.

00:41:51,868	S3:
Pat Norton, I.

00:41:52,868	S1:
Jonathan, poor.

00:41:53,868	S11:
Jonathan, poor I.

00:41:55,100	S1:
Bill Wheaton.

00:41:56,000	S14:
Bill Wheaton I am Dahlquist.

00:41:58,167	S1:
Dahlquist II. Darcy Dale.

00:41:59,868	S18:
Darcy Dale I.

00:42:01,000	S1:
Beth her.

00:42:01,868	S16:
Eye.

00:42:02,400	S1:
And Marney Crouch I was that see you on the third and hopefully our engineering firm will work expeditiously.

00:42:14,501	S18:
Great.

00:42:26,300	S18:
Yeah.

00:42:32,300	S19:
I'm fine.

00:42:37,400	S2:
Yeah.

00:42:39,100	S16:
I'm multitasking.

00:42:46,367	S5:
For slides.

00:42:48,167	S2:
Nothing's changed.

00:42:49,000	S20:
The guys that we heard from.

00:42:51,801	S21:
I do have a hand. Just a black and white hand.

00:42:57,667	S21:
I didn't want to do.

00:42:58,567	S1:
What I.

00:42:58,868	S12:
Did.

00:43:03,267	S21:
Second hand answered this.

00:43:05,167	S22:
I told her I was out. That was it.

00:43:08,868	S1:
This isn't within our purview, is it? Noise regulation?

00:43:13,667	S21:
Um. That's actually.

00:43:15,067	S14:
I can't really.

00:43:16,267	S4:
Select.

00:43:16,601	S21:
Board, I think, ordinances. That's a.

00:43:18,267	S3:
Good thing.

00:43:18,567	S14:
Things like keeping the old trees.

00:43:20,267	S21:
Oh, we can't control.

00:43:21,267	S16:
That, right? I think we all we can do is make adjustments.

00:43:24,567	S14:
Suggestions.

00:43:25,467	S22:
Suggestions.

00:43:26,567	S16:
And people are usually pretty good.

00:43:29,067	S1:
Maybe we could think about this.

00:43:30,267	S14:
Individual woman from across the marsh was helpful. I didn't think the noise.

00:43:35,267	S21:
Would.

00:43:35,400	S19:
Be anything, but.

00:43:36,467	S16:
Yeah, no, I could understand that Especially as.

00:43:40,000	S19:
Like in this.

00:43:41,100	S1:
Public setting and all you hear are leaf blowers.

00:43:43,701	S16:
And I know what Pat Norton is doing.

00:43:45,701	S1:
Excuse me.

00:43:46,667	S19:
Are you ready? It's like just. It's just. It's a scourge.

00:43:51,667	S16:
What do we have to do to bribe you? I told Marny, no, no, Summer.

00:43:57,400	S1:
You know.

00:43:58,567	S16:
We can't have a meeting. We only have one meeting in the summer. Maybe you would stay.

00:44:01,901	S21:
Worth asking a question, you know. Yeah.

00:44:03,868	S3:
This is a long time.

00:44:04,801	S21:
It's really a hard thing for them to litigate.

00:44:07,567	S1:
Well, sometimes ban them or have certain times, you know, but they can't.

00:44:12,100	S21:
You know, can I go back to 7:00 in the morning?

00:44:15,000	S1:
Yeah.

00:44:15,567	S21:
You know.

00:44:17,300	S16:
You have some negotiating powers.

00:44:22,667	S21:
Let's go. Hey, Mark. Quick question. Is there any is, uh, noise reduction a purview of the planning board, or would that be. It's not in.

00:44:34,100	S1:
Zoning.

00:44:35,000	S21:
It's not zoning, but it's noise.

00:44:36,467	S14:
And noise in light would be an ordinance.

00:44:39,067	S8:
It's a.

00:44:39,300	S3:
Good part.

00:44:39,667	S14:
Of the site. Site. Site. Plan review.

00:44:41,467	S3:
Don't you think.

00:44:42,300	S8:
You could.

00:44:43,367	S21:
Set it in the 133? Yeah.

00:44:45,467	S8:
Yeah. The town does have a noise bylaw, but it's kind of dicey because if there's a complaint, it typically goes to the police. And it's. So the planning board as a, as a sort of additional safety could have it be a requirement of your, your approval. And that way if there's an issue that the town can't resolve, it goes back to the planning board.

00:45:04,267	S1:
Yeah. We might want to think about that because this woman obviously was concerned about noise. But, um, I know walking in Pingree Woods and elsewhere, um, sometimes you're in this pristine environment, you can't see any buildings and you hear leaf blowers, you know, just noise coming from somewhere. And obviously, I guess we can't ban the use of leaf blowers, although I think some communities may have done that.

00:45:36,467	S19:
Marblehead did.

00:45:37,400	S1:
What's that?

00:45:38,100	S3:
Marblehead did.

00:45:39,267	S1:
Oh they did.

00:45:40,100	S16:
Yeah. Gas leaf.

00:45:40,901	S3:
Blowers.

00:45:41,300	S7:
Lawn mowers are okay, but somehow leaf blowers are not well.

00:45:44,367	S1:
Leaf blowers are loud. They're loud. But, you know, we could, you know, curtail their use before a certain time and after a certain time and maybe on weekends. Um, well, well, you know, it's the Pingree school was was, you know, using their leaf blowers in the fall. Like, every time I walked in Pingree Woods, there was just the roar of leaf blowers. It's like, sort of defeats the purpose of open space. If it maybe that that's that's not the highest.

00:46:17,667	S19:
Um.

00:46:18,100	S16:
That was a side note.

00:46:19,167	S19:
That was a side note.

00:46:20,868	S3:
The planning board in Ipswich had made me at a planning board. Board in Ipswich had made me at one point in time doing ambient noise study and then monitored during the course of construction and operation to determine what our impact was based on the reference to ambient noise.

00:46:39,968	S1:
Do they have a noise bylaw.

00:46:42,467	S3:
That I don't know. Is there a Butters over there? But they certainly did restrict the hours of construction during the development. So that's something that you can.

00:46:54,567	S4:
Well, we did that 133. You know, we.

00:46:56,667	S14:
Yeah, we.

00:46:57,167	S4:
Had figures.

00:46:57,767	S14:
On 133.

00:46:59,000	S4:
We figured out what the ambient noise is typically on a road and what it would be with the equipment that was planned.

00:47:06,467	S3:
Yeah. Because that's a state requirement that whatever percentage above.

00:47:12,167	S1:
Right. That was the state requirement. But the the leaf blowers, that's something that the town can address. Since we're, we're, we're roving, um, a little bit off our zoning jurisdiction. The other thing is e-bikes, you know, because they shouldn't be on sidewalks and they shouldn't be on trails where hikers and equestrians are. I mean, bicycles, as we know from Rosa Kennedy's accidents pose their own risk. But e-bikes pose an even more enormous risk because they can go. So, I mean, people can go so fast.

00:47:53,501	S19:
So, um.

00:47:56,267	S1:
That's just, uh, neither here nor there, but it's something we could bring up with the select board individually.

00:48:06,968	S1:
Anyhow, I had asked Marc to provide.

00:48:11,501	S19:
Us.

00:48:11,767	S4:
Do we have to vote on this or the cost estimate or just.

00:48:17,300	S1:
I think that's within your purview. Mark, I don't.

00:48:20,000	S8:
Think I think it was clear from. Okay, your discussion on that.

00:48:26,701	S4:
Sorry.

00:48:27,501	S19:
That's okay.

00:48:28,567	S1:
So I asked Mark to provide everyone with section 4.2 the implementation charts from the master plan. And so we have an open agenda for 2026. So I thought we could have a discussion about what we would like to address. And in, you know, the priority that we should give to some of the.

00:48:57,367	S19:
Items.

00:48:57,968	S1:
On the that are listed in the master plan. So I know we talked extensively last year about revising the pod. And so I think that is something.

00:49:10,501	S19:
That.

00:49:11,100	S1:
We should consider, but that I believe would require the engagement of a professional. Do you agree with that assessment? Absolutely right. So since that's something we've announced, and I think that if the jeopardy is to have any meaning, it has to be revised because it seems it almost every project the GP rod gets circumvented somehow, someway. It wouldn't happen with a single family house necessarily, but it does happen with larger projects. So I remember there was someone here was, I don't know if it was Scott Maddern or someone was talking about with all the innovations and septic systems. I mean, there should be a way of addressing this issue. So, Mark, could you look into what our budget might be, uh, to, um, to engage a professional to give us advice on how we could amend the GP mod and a whole bylaw wouldn't have to be amended, but there would have to be some type of carve out, I would imagine, for an engineered system that wasn't just a a leaching field.

00:50:38,267	S8:
So just to be sure, I'm I'm clear. So the idea would be to potentially amend that 80,000 square foot per dwelling lot requirement with something a little more specialized in terms of septic requirements.

00:50:51,067	S1:
And right. If you met certain criteria okay. You know.

00:50:56,100	S11:
There might there might be provision for um, sort of specialty alternative systems. Could change change criteria, um package systems for smaller groups of houses. There's all different alternatives that aren't really covered in that bylaw. It's just sort of a blanket square footage metric.

00:51:14,467	S4:
So yeah, the 80,000 could still apply. But there are alternatives. Yeah. For other types of devices.

00:51:20,067	S1:
So we would think the 80,000 square foot.

00:51:23,167	S11:
Well you might.

00:51:23,767	S1:
Revisit, but if you have this type of system, then.

00:51:28,367	S11:
Yeah, it'd be more nuanced so that there's more flexibility. Right. But with controls.

00:51:33,067	S19:
Right.

00:51:33,567	S11:
But it needs to be all based in engineering.

00:51:36,167	S19:
Right.

00:51:38,200	S12:
Right.

00:51:39,667	S3:
Sorry. We closed the hearing on myopia, but did they fill out a stormwater form, too? They have a site plan application, but did they fill out the form for stormwater management, too? Uh, we have a form. We?

00:51:55,200	S8:
That was a good question. Uh, when the town created the stormwater regulations, at least as far as I can find, we never created a special application for stormwater. So I couldn't really make them fill out a form that hasn't been approved by the planning board.

00:52:13,968	S3:
Okay. I thought we did. There was a rules of regs. There was a rules and regs that in that at the back end of it.

00:52:20,868	S19:
Includes.

00:52:21,200	S3:
A form you fill out and you fill it out to say, I'm disturbing this much land. It's got no steep slopes. It's got all the criteria.

00:52:28,467	S1:
You're absolutely right. Yeah. You're right.

00:52:31,100	S8:
All right. Maybe I don't have the current version, but, um.

00:52:34,100	S3:
Maybe worth taking a look.

00:52:35,868	S4:
Yeah, there was an abbreviated and a regular.

00:52:38,167	S3:
Uh, I mean, this isn't on the edge of any criteria that would sway you one way or there, but it's interesting information to have. Yeah, it also shows you, like what you're supposed to be submitting along.

00:52:47,100	S19:
With that, right?

00:52:47,901	S1:
Yeah, absolutely. And so they should fill that out.

00:52:52,100	S8:
Okay.

00:52:54,501	S3:
Sorry. I was just looking at the form.

00:52:56,801	S1:
So did you want to pass around what you did.

00:53:00,567	S2:
Oh okay.

00:53:11,868	S4:
Do you mind.

00:53:13,400	S2:
Okay.

00:53:16,200	S16:
Any more steps?

00:53:19,767	S4:
I don't know.

00:53:22,100	S1:
I have. I have.

00:53:22,968	S19:
The color.

00:53:23,868	S1:
Coded.

00:53:24,367	S19:
One. There you go.

00:53:35,667	S3:
Thank you.

00:53:43,467	S9:
Yeah. I'm going to be.

00:53:45,567	S2:
Two.

00:53:45,701	S14:
There.

00:53:45,901	S2:
Too. Hopefully we got enough there.

00:54:08,267	S4:
We got one.

00:54:10,300	S1:
So I mentioned this. Um, the section of the master plan To Amol and indicated to him that I wanted to have a discussion about what we should focus on this year, and obviously the pod was one. I think there was consensus last year, but with respect to other matters, I thought we could have a discussion. So Amol, in his inimitable way, has highlighted all the things in section 4.2 that are within the purview of the Planning Board and indicated whether they were zoning amendment design guidelines, things that we completed and as well as some elements that require some vision. So, um, we can go through these if you'd like.

00:55:09,501	S4:
Well, I just took the where Planning Board was deemed to be the leader and the actions for particular actions. And so I just circle them in heavy lines. That would be applicable. I did not consider any, you know, any partnership with other boards and commissions or related elements and so forth. But it was just to see, just get an overview of what was asked of the planning board in the implementation plan. And then I thought it might be good just to categorize them by the particular type of task. And it was zoning amendment. And then there was design guidelines. And then what I just referred to as visioning, which is more of a long term planning technique or process or task. So on the on page 94, 4.1, 4.2.1 per text, this is regarding natural resources. Um, I just say that this master plan is not really fully developed. And so a lot of these goals and actions could have been lumped together, could have been thought out at at the time of its origin, I think in and kind of put together, organized in a little bit different manner because there's some relatively small tasks like, uh, one c amend the zoning bylaw to require developers to install and maintain shade trees. Well, that that would be a zoning amendment. And we can put that actually combine that with further, uh, actions by the planning board so we can consolidate that, which I did in the second hand out, um, which which is the Planning Board 2020, 26 project ideas. But just to go through what the master plan dictated or not dictated but recommended. Um 1D is a zoning amendment amend the zoning bylaw to encourage environmentally responsible development by potentially offering incentives such as density bonus or expedited permitting, to incorporate green infrastructure and low impact development principles, and new development and retrofitting of existing buildings or structures. So that would be a zoning amendment requirement. Then we jump to page 99, which is 4.2.3 grow land use goal. Uh, six A is actually uh, was substantially completed. This was a town center form based code. I say substantially because, um, in my mind, anyway, slightly incomplete because they never did the public realm coding, and they made it pretty clear at the outset that what they were doing is to write a code for private property, not public property. So they deliberately did not include that, even though they committed to doing it when they were selected anyway. This could be relatively easy anyway, but so when I say is substantially completed, that's what I meant there. So that basically has been addressed largely. We just need to refine it now. Six B um, in the event the Winthrop School is closed, either in the next few years or well into the future, explore how the site can be integrated with the Hamilton Town Center. And my thought would be to call that a visioning. We're not going to write a code for it where we're being asked by in this to because of the proximity of that site, the school site, and it's now a long term thing. So there's no urgency obviously there. But that is something that was in the master plan. The implementation plan six C is completed. Adopt zoning to facilitate the reuse and redevelopment of the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary site that is completed, six D is completed. Assess requirements of the MBTA Communities Act. Considering considering anticipated rulings by the Supreme Court, Judicial court, and so forth. That's done. Six. E is a zoning amendment improve the effectiveness of open space and farmland preservation, development by law and the estate overlay district provisions by exploring density and development by right options. We had talked about updating the the estate overlay district, and then we had also, I know the planning board, just before I joined the planning Board, had worked on a flexible zoning as a replacement for the open space farmland preservation development. Um, I'm not that familiar with it, but I think the open.

01:00:07,167	S14:
Space was also for the greatest states too. They were going to wrap them all up in one.

01:00:12,367	S4:
Yeah. And the rationale? The only thing I heard, and I apologize because I don't know a lot about it, was that it was not being used. So therefore it's probably not good. I would disagree.

01:00:24,501	S14:
I don't think we've had one one petition for either of those two.

01:00:27,968	S4:
Yeah, I think I think it would be a good idea to look at why is that the case. Because there are provisions of like conservation development in the open space that really are useful. And I think I'd hate to jettison that just because of developers not using it. Developers take kind of the easy path to the to do a project. Um, what they're used to doing. And but yes, that was the rationale that I heard from, uh, from the board, but that was shelved just as I came on board. So I have no really no knowledge of that.

01:01:03,501	S1:
Could I just interject at this point, I think I asked Mark to look at the number of estates that we actually have in Hamilton that would be subject to the estate overlay district, and.

01:01:20,367	S1:
We have that information now. And.

01:01:27,267	S1:
How many were there? Mark 13. I mean, we included the assessor's office did this so that it was based on acreage. So the Pingree School in the high school and Gordon Conwell and Myopia are included in it, but there are only about 13 states that would fall within the estate overlay district. So it seems to me that we can learn a lot from the Browns Hill overlay district, and we have the potential to look at the open state space and farmland preservation development. By law, the estate overlay district, the Brownsville Overlay District, and what we had done with the flexible development by law and sort of combine everything using Brownsville kind of as a model. I think that it might work because we had the retreat house and Pilgrim Hall as structures that we wanted to preserve, and so I thought that would be something that we could play with, and it would require some effort to pull it all together. Um, but I don't think it in the last analysis it would be that difficult.

01:02:58,601	S3:
But it was a threshold that you used to pull those properties, was it?

01:03:03,000	S1:
It was the threshold that set forth in the state overlay district.

01:03:07,467	S3:
The current version of what we have.

01:03:08,567	S1:
Yeah, the current version.

01:03:10,167	S3:
Does it be interesting that maybe it look more broadly like fire criteria, 20 acres and it only has ten properties, but if you change that to 15 acres and it had 40 properties, you know what I mean. Like maybe there's reverse engineering the criteria to determine what's appropriate.

01:03:29,801	S19:
Exactly.

01:03:30,400	S4:
You had a part.

01:03:31,067	S3:
Of the square footage of house historic building is required within those 20 acres either. If anything.

01:03:39,667	S14:
I think the other thing is, are we with the particularly with the state by law? Are we actually trying to preserve the estate, the house, the grand mansion, whatever it is? Or are we trying to, you know, preserve the land or have some kind of cluster zoning to maintain A lot of open land. So one of those 13 estates other than, you know, pretty good and clever about maintaining the land. Uh, but they took the estate and.

01:04:15,067	S14:
Chopped it down.

01:04:16,000	S3:
Yeah.

01:04:16,667	S14:
So it's there are two objectives. I mean, sort of.

01:04:21,267	S2:
Yeah.

01:04:22,767	S4:
Well, a density bonus is that I like the way Ipswich approach those with the series of density bonuses that that could be done provided you retain rehabbed the estate building and bring it back, whether in the same use or or repurpose it to some other use like multi-family housing maybe. Uh, but the idea of being. Yeah, to preserve as much as you can for those estates. Um, I think the Browns Hill was specific to that site. The metrics would obviously have to change, but I think there is a process that could.

01:05:02,767	S9:
Well, that's.

01:05:03,801	S3:
Maybe we the Ipswich one you're referring to is also called something different. And it puts emphasis on preservation of the estate. So it's it's the jeopardy. It's the greatest state preservation district. It's not an estate overlay district. You know, it's saying you're going to put something over the estate. It's saying you're preserving the estate. They're calling it something different and putting different emphasis on it.

01:05:27,567	S1:
Yeah, I printed out Ipswich is open space preservation for rent cluster zoning. And then you're right, it's called the Great estate preservation development by law.

01:05:44,701	S19:
Yep.

01:05:45,501	S1:
So.

01:05:48,667	S1:
You know I don't know if it's feasible to combine these, but it might be. But just just I'll read this for your edification. This is the applicability provision of the estate overlay district. And it says a property in the estate overlay district is eligible for part a special permit if it has a minimum lot size of 15 acres and is eligible for a part B special permit if it has a minimum lot size of 20 acres. And then there's a method of calculating that at least one of the lots contiguous lots may be combined, provided that at least one of the lots contained contains a state house of over 5000 residential gross square feet of living area built before December 31st, 1950. The law says combined have the required acreage, and the lots had been under common ownership prior to July 1st, 2010, and lots may be considered combined regardless of whether a private or public road dissects the parcels. Land restrictions restricted by conservation easement. Restrictions of wetlands will count toward the 15 acres and 20 acre thresholds.

01:07:16,000	S1:
So what I was thinking is that you you start with the open space and farmland preservation, development by law, and then have another part designed to preserve buildings of historic significance.

01:07:37,400	S8:
You kind of merge those to.

01:07:39,000	S1:
Kind of merge them, because the open space and farmland preservation development sort of addresses the part B of the estate overlay district. I haven't looked at how the mechanics of combining it, but I could. I could give it a shot. I won't promise one. I could get it done. And I'm not saying it would be ready for the annual town meeting, but if it if it comes together and the board likes the way its shape shaping up, then maybe we could consider it in the fall or a year from now.

01:08:19,367	S15:
Yeah, I think.

01:08:20,000	S4:
It'd be great if doing some work on it in advance so that to kind of pull it into shape, somewhat not fully defined, but.

01:08:27,567	S19:
Yeah, way to put.

01:08:28,667	S1:
It in some kind of format. And then.

01:08:31,067	S4:
You.

01:08:31,167	S19:
Can.

01:08:31,467	S1:
Present it to you. Right, right. Um, because clearly the open space and farmland development by law has to be at a minimum amended so that we don't have the ambiguities, uh, in 8.1. 12 that we struggled with mightily um, in in the 8.2 with respect to 133 Essex, if you remember.

01:09:00,067	S11:
Yes.

01:09:00,367	S1:
So you in particular.

01:09:02,467	S19:
I.

01:09:02,801	S1:
Think, spoke for an hour.

01:09:04,501	S19:
Yes.

01:09:06,000	S11:
So can I shift gears for just a moment?

01:09:09,100	S19:
Absolutely.

01:09:09,601	S11:
Back out. Um, what could be interesting is to have a discussion about, um, we have an array of possible things that we could focus on. How would we, as a board, prioritize those things? Because we can't do all of them. We can't. And I guess a comment that I would make is, I feel that this board has a unique set of complementary skills, and that's not always usual for the makeup of a board, and from my perspective, but it'd be interesting to discuss it. I think it would be interesting to prioritize according to you have a strong board, a lot of skills. What would be the most? What would be the highest and best use of those skills? Rather than what's the low hanging fruit? Right. And so there's one question. It's just a question.

01:10:04,267	S1:
Because design guidelines are up there on my list.

01:10:06,767	S19:
Yep.

01:10:07,167	S11:
So there's one question.

01:10:08,367	S19:
Yep.

01:10:08,968	S11:
And then another question is some of these things sort of sit in isolation. Some of them would be better served clustered together. You know some of these look like they're separate, but they're really the same subject. And to point, they should really be treated as a, as a system, you know, a systematic kind of approach. Um, even to the point where downtown relates to the Winthrop School. And so that's of a piece, you know, downtown guidelines and Winthrop School visioning are related. Um, so the question is which things go together, which don't. And again circle that back around to what's the highest and best use of the skills that we currently have on this board. So that would be that would be the question I would pose. And then see if there's a way to look at this list and prioritize accordingly.

01:11:01,868	S1:
Well, I can say unequivocally that the design guidelines, you know, we have an architect in a in a planner who, um, that's within their skill set. I'm just saying I mean, it's not necessarily in mine. I mean, I have I have opinions as to the design guidelines that were developed by the HTC. I think they were pretty simplistic, you know, just, you know, putting colonial touches on everything. But, um, maybe also throw it open to, to everybody.

01:11:41,000	S4:
I think the second the second paper project is really kind of a summary of all the things that I've heard so far. And I like, you know, the you're exactly right. You have to prioritize what gets. Attention first and so forth. And, uh, I know Marty said at one of the last meetings, is there anything we can get done by the springtime meeting? Uh, that's a bit of a rush, because it's got to be done. Probably end of March.

01:12:08,167	S19:
Yeah.

01:12:09,067	S4:
So that's not going to happen, I think. But anyway, the prioritizing would just allow, um, uh, scheduling something in a better way.

01:12:21,367	S11:
But another lens to put it through is what would be the most valuable to the town. No, just not just what skills. What tasks suit the skills of the board? But then what's the marriage of of those opportunities to the highest and best value to the town? You know what's.

01:12:37,200	S15:
Most.

01:12:37,868	S11:
What's most urgent for the town?

01:12:39,467	S4:
And I wouldn't just stick with the implementation plan because I think.

01:12:42,367	S15:
That I agree.

01:12:43,167	S11:
I agree 100%. That's why I'm casting a very broad net here.

01:12:46,367	S15:
Yeah, yeah.

01:12:47,467	S3:
And that's right. That's the point I was um, going to mention also was maybe it's a good opportunity to engage the other committees and boards and.

01:12:56,868	S15:
Yeah.

01:12:57,200	S3:
Collectively agree on a focus. Like maybe there's a.

01:13:00,667	S4:
That's really useful.

01:13:01,467	S3:
Thinking about something else that is going to get coming down the pike and thrown at us, you know, or challenges that the time is. Yeah.

01:13:12,367	S11:
I, I would really support that approach to, to engage other boards.

01:13:15,701	S3:
Yeah. But yeah.

01:13:18,968	S11:
I mean what's really what's really great is that this board has accomplished sort of three, three major tasks. You know, which was 133 S6 and Gordon Conwell in downtown.

01:13:32,000	S15:
Um, and.

01:13:34,300	S11:
And now there's nothing really big coming at us. So it's the opportunity to back up and look proactively big. Yeah. And I like Pat's suggestion to engage other boards. I like the idea of making sure that we're cognizant of what, you know, what the dynamic of the board can bring and how do how do these things fit together in and of themselves in the, you know, in the in the implementation goals? And then what are what's missing in the implementation goals and really look at it a big picture. Take a moment to reflect, get get our heads out of the trench, look big picture and prioritize before we just dive back into a trench. That that would be my thought.

01:14:15,167	S15:
Well, the.

01:14:15,701	S4:
Goal again, I think here with this list is to put what I know down and then we can absorb it over time and we can eliminate some or add some or change some. So it's a it's a beginning, but there might be other I'm sure others that we could ask to go after. But that was the idea.

01:14:36,300	S15:
With this.

01:14:37,067	S4:
To organize.

01:14:37,868	S15:
It.

01:14:38,167	S11:
So what would be the best process Pat, do you think, um, to engage other boards?

01:14:45,467	S4:
It's any implementation.

01:14:46,601	S15:
Plan. Yeah.

01:14:49,067	S3:
Marnie reaching out to the boards.

01:14:51,200	S19:
Could you.

01:14:51,601	S1:
Speak up.

01:14:52,100	S19:
Pat?

01:14:52,567	S3:
Marnie reaching out to the other boards. Maybe in suggesting maybe they're doing something similar. Talk about what's the goals for this year.

01:15:00,067	S15:
And, I mean, it.

01:15:00,567	S11:
Would be worth a joint meeting.

01:15:02,167	S15:
Yeah.

01:15:02,901	S1:
Uh, with the select board. I know the select board's focused on the budget.

01:15:07,000	S19:
Yeah, I mean.

01:15:08,267	S1:
That will occupy them until town meeting.

01:15:11,701	S16:
Yes.

01:15:13,300	S1:
So, and I mentioned to, um, Rosie Kennedy about the, um, the implementation committee because I had sent a letter to the select board asking them to form an implementation committee. And I believe I sent that at the beginning of last year. And I never heard back from anyone on the select board but Rosie reported to me that the thinking was that, and I don't recall this at a meeting, that because it's so difficult to obtain volunteers to serve on committees, that having another committee would be almost futile because it would be unlikely that, uh.

01:15:59,000	S19:
People would, um.

01:16:01,567	S1:
Volunteer their time for.

01:16:02,868	S19:
Such a committee.

01:16:04,067	S1:
So. And that may be true.

01:16:07,100	S19:
Right.

01:16:07,567	S1:
So I think that we could survey different points in committees, but they the master plan actually tasks some of the committees with doing things. So I'm not sure that that some of the things that would be.

01:16:27,567	S4:
I don't see the select board.

01:16:28,767	S19:
Here.

01:16:29,100	S1:
Addressed might not be things that the Planning board is capable of actually executing because we have to focus on.

01:16:37,167	S11:
What it might inform, how we set priorities.

01:16:39,901	S19:
Yeah. Well.

01:16:41,000	S1:
You know, my thinking is let's set our own priorities because we're going to do the work. So my question is, uh, if and I think this is important with respect to the town center and we, you know, so far no activity whatsoever with respect to three A or anything else. Um, but it'd be helpful to get ahead of it, you know, so we're not flat footed if a project comes along and we have no guidelines. And also we talked about guidelines for ADUs, and apparently there's some in Boston and elsewhere that we probably could crib off for 80 years.

01:17:19,000	S11:
Yes. There's extensive ones in Boston. And again, I feel that those, even though they're not the same subject, they're really intertwined. The design guidelines for downtown, the town center guidelines and the Adu guidelines are all intertwined.

01:17:34,467	S1:
Now then, the question I have is developing those guidelines. Is that something that the planning board can do? Or is it something that we would need professional expertise.

01:17:47,367	S4:
For when.

01:17:48,501	S1:
Doing the design guidelines?

01:17:50,501	S4:
Oh, no. Right.

01:17:55,167	S1:
You know, raise your hand if you want to.

01:17:57,667	S3:
Well, we'll talk about a, an effort for we talked about carrying out an effort that we'd asked the town funding to execute with, uh.

01:18:07,067	S4:
I think what we need.

01:18:08,667	S15:
If we're going to write it.

01:18:10,367	S4:
We need a graphic designer to.

01:18:13,901	S15:
Get the.

01:18:14,300	S3:
Images. Yeah.

01:18:15,667	S11:
There's a variety of ways to approach it, though, I feel. Go ahead.

01:18:20,000	S4:
But I think we can kind of flesh it out, you know, in terms of what the content ought to be. Uh, for example, what I was suggesting in this was that there were really two levels of design guidelines. One is town wide. The other is specific to town center. Now the town wide. This is mostly a residential town. You know, single family housing, so it would not apply to have design review there. But in cases like that, we do come across like multifamily housing in some location. That's where it would apply I think. And anyway but you have those two. One is more detailed, the town center more detailed than the other. But those would be the two. The two levels of design guidelines.

01:19:05,267	S11:
I think there could be, in a sense, a tiered level of the effort. One would be to create the framework or the the content of it, and then the other. The next tier would be um, to rather than reinvent the wheel graphically, I've had success going to other towns and getting written permission to borrow graphics from other other folks, um, guidelines and you know, with, with attribution. Or you could do that and then eventually segue into something that's really pulled together in a very professional way with an art director and a cohesive, consistent graphic style. But that's the that's the heaviest lift. But I don't think it needs to be all or nothing. There's there's three tiers.

01:19:50,701	S1:
So what you're suggesting is that we survey applicable communities and see what they've done.

01:19:58,667	S15:
Yeah.

01:19:59,567	S1:
Called the very best.

01:20:02,267	S15:
Draft your out.

01:20:03,000	S11:
Draft your framework.

01:20:04,267	S19:
Yeah.

01:20:04,601	S11:
And then you can decide how far you want to go with your graphics. You can be it can be very slick and professional, you know, with an art director and cohesive graphics. Or it can be, you know, get the content in there and it might be a little bit a mix of styles. If you're going for you produce some yourself. You get permission to re, you know, to reprint others with attribution, you know, get rights. Um, so there's different ways to do it, I think, without having to have it have a big budget.

01:20:36,000	S1:
Well, you know, Mark, I'm going to get you in trouble here. I mean, he produced some very nice graphics for, uh, the Brownsville overlays.

01:20:43,868	S11:
Then we hired Mark.

01:20:47,167	S16:
Green.

01:20:47,868	S1:
Well, I'm just saying, you know, to your point, uh.

01:20:52,167	S11:
There's.

01:20:52,467	S19:
Not.

01:20:52,667	S1:
Not going to be shiny and have.

01:20:54,801	S15:
You know.

01:20:55,067	S11:
It can be.

01:20:55,968	S1:
Binder.

01:20:56,567	S15:
It might.

01:20:56,868	S11:
Not. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

01:20:59,167	S4:
It doesn't have it shouldn't be shiny or, you know, corporate looking, I don't think.

01:21:03,000	S15:
But anyway.

01:21:03,567	S11:
But it can be really cohesive. But it takes more design effort and graphic design effort to do that.

01:21:10,667	S8:
So I think 80 years would be pretty easy to do in-house just because there's so much out there. It's really just a matter of sort of putting it all in one place.

01:21:19,601	S15:
Yeah.

01:21:20,868	S8:
So I think that was a pretty easy the, the, the larger design guidelines we what to do. Town center specific or town wide that you might want to bring in.

01:21:31,968	S11:
What's interesting about the Adu, um, guidelines that are out there, Boston does have a really exhaustive set of guidelines is, uh, nobody has yet addressed the fact that ADUs are really kind of tight little programs, tight little puzzle pieces that have to fit into a puzzle piece space, usually somebody's backyard. And rather than creating sort of prescriptions, one size fits all prescriptions, there may be a way that I haven't seen yet to create almost a questionnaire where you you fill out a form or you you answer some questions and it guides you in a direction. It sort of sends you down the right path in the design guidelines. So it's not a one size fits all set of decisions. It's a it's a sort of a you fill out the, the questionnaire and it and it creates sort of a hierarchy of of in a decision tree. So you get off on the right foot and I haven't seen that like the Boston guidelines are just here's an idea, here's an idea, here's an idea. And it doesn't really guide you through the decision making.

01:22:42,767	S1:
You're talking about, you know, just start at the top. What is the size of your lot?

01:22:47,667	S11:
Which way does it face? We're south. Which way do you enter it. Whereas the long view, you know, you answer a few questions. Do you you know, how many bedrooms do you want? Just start filling it out. And then and then it can sort of guide you through. Well, if you, you know, if you've answered these 20 questions, then it's, it's sort of steering you in the, in the direction of these priorities. Um, I haven't really seen that, but I think it would be more useful. Like right now, Boston has put out a call for entry submissions for design competition for ADUs. Well, I had an intern come to me and say, let's let's enter that. And I said, yeah, a one size fits all design for a for a million different unique backyards is not is not the answer. The answer is some sort of framework for process. Um, so it made me think about the guidelines for ADUs. And I think it'd be worth calling what's out there. And you can really mine it, but I think it could be done a little better by having a few key questions that get answered, get asked, and answered.

01:23:50,267	S1:
Well, so I think that the ADUs are much, uh, well, they're more limited. We have, uh, ready access to some samples, if you will.

01:24:01,701	S19:
Sure.

01:24:02,567	S1:
You could do the questionnaire relatively easily. Relatively easy. Easier because you just essentially provide.

01:24:11,667	S15:
That's the first five questions, but.

01:24:13,067	S11:
There's 30 more behind that.

01:24:14,868	S15:
Pardon me.

01:24:15,467	S11:
That's the first five questions. But there's 30 more.

01:24:17,567	S15:
Behind.

01:24:17,868	S19:
That I.

01:24:18,601	S1:
Know, but I mean you're on a you're you're on a roll. Uh, so, um, so that's something that we could probably do pretty quickly because I think, Mark, you could call them for our review. I think the much more difficult, um, uh, um, problem is for the town center.

01:24:37,367	S19:
That's that's of course.

01:24:39,801	S11:
That's more complicated.

01:24:40,767	S19:
Much more complex.

01:24:41,400	S11:
Than you tie that into a Winthrop School vision, and you've got a fairly complex process.

01:24:45,767	S1:
Yeah. And careful with the Winthrop School.

01:24:48,868	S19:
I mean, yeah.

01:24:49,267	S15:
That's that's a political that's.

01:24:50,467	S11:
A political hot potato.

01:24:51,667	S19:
Yeah.

01:24:52,267	S1:
And and right now, the Winthrop School looks like it will be in use, at least for the short term. So. But so, yeah. Um, and how would you go about, uh, thinking and even developing guidelines for the town center?

01:25:11,567	S11:
Well, I think, again, Amy can talk about this because Amy's served for 20 years on a.

01:25:16,100	S19:
I know and I've.

01:25:16,968	S1:
Seen his award winning.

01:25:19,000	S19:
Yeah.

01:25:19,868	S11:
So he's he's the expert here. Um, but again, there's. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's lots of lots of, um, documents and processes out there to look at and, and mine from. And plus we have the expert.

01:25:43,801	S11:
I just need to not make him do all the work.

01:25:49,000	S11:
Guide it, but not do.

01:25:50,167	S15:
It, I.

01:25:50,868	S4:
Think. Um, yeah, I think it's, um. I'll say this a little easier than you might think to get it right. Um, it's, you know, how you structure it and how what is the, um, what is the way you want to address, um, the user of that and, uh. Um, but I, Uh, you know, using examples. And you can go online and actually look in any number of towns that have design guidelines and see what they did. And there's kind of a uniformity of, of, of topics that you need to address at a minimum. And we can decide, you know, a small town like this, it's not as complicated as, uh, Boston, obviously, but the, uh.

01:26:43,067	S4:
I think the first the first thing is I think you do it incrementally. The first thing is to come up with a framework of what are the topics that you really do want to address, you know, at a minimum. Again, I think signage ought to be put into this. I know Mark, uh, had commented that he signage ought to be re-evaluated. And that's a critical thing in town center. And I think what we have now is really insufficient. Even what you did is insufficient. But, uh.

01:27:15,000	S4:
But just at a minimum, it's, you know, citing landscape design, its architecture and its signage. Those three things. And under each one of those, there are any number of subheadings that we can go through and pick out.

01:27:29,167	S11:
There was a lot of work that was done, but not used in the form based code process with UTC, so you could mine some of that. You can also review the the form based code as it stands and look for gaps. You know there's look at look at the form based code, not for ideas but for where things missing.

01:27:46,801	S4:
But what I would do is just draft a draft the whole thing in text only and as a working document, and not try to not spend a lot of time on graphics to but then go back, go through it with the board. Let let the planning board figure out what it is that they would like or not like to include in this. And then you start to to do the detail on each of the individual sections, decide what what the message is and what's an appropriate graphic for that. So that's when you start to develop it in more detail.

01:28:20,400	S11:
The other first step would be to take the implementation items and see if they can be crafted into something more cohesive instead of disparate, um, goals. You know, start putting them together like.

01:28:33,167	S15:
You mentioned, the street.

01:28:34,000	S11:
The street trees. Yeah. You know, we design guidelines.

01:28:36,601	S15:
Yeah.

01:28:36,801	S4:
A couple of these in the implementation plan would just be folded into the design guidelines. That's how you would complete it. And it would all be advisory. None of this is regulatory, right? I guess that's an assumption. Um.

01:28:49,567	S11:
And it is best, I think, when something's, um, advisory is the more graphic it is, the more likely it is to be used, because you can just look at it and use it as an idea board rather than wading through a lot of dense words, a developer is more likely going to absorb it, understand it, and incorporate it in hopes for success.

01:29:11,367	S4:
With my experience that if you put something on a table like that, a developer coming into town with a project is going to look at it first and go through it, and then at least the developer knows what kind of questions he's going to get going into a design review meeting. And for the most part, because they all want approvals, you know, they're going to do what they can to kind of address or uh, at least, um, because nobody wants to get rejected by a board even though it's not regulatory. So, you know, we would I mean, ideally there should be a separate board, not just not just the planning board to do this, but.

01:29:52,167	S11:
But again, to this point, how do you man it, you know, how how do you how do you know. You know, populate it. Right. So, um, but I agree that the first step is you put it all in words, but then the mission is to turn those words into graphics or graphically friendly words or graphically friendly tables so that you can again absorb it quickly, um, without a lot of deep reading or explanation. And again.

01:30:19,100	S4:
That's my.

01:30:20,100	S2:
Might.

01:30:20,701	S11:
Have a greater likelihood.

01:30:21,868	S4:
This to me is kind of a long term project, I think. I think a priority should be given to, uh, frankly, getting familiar with the town center code. Uh, we as a board, if we get a project in that has to deal with it. I think, you know, we'd asked Mark to contact Joe on getting your team back for one session. I'm not sure we really. You know, there's been. I don't know if there's been anything up on that, but.

01:30:47,367	S8:
I have talked to I admit I put it aside a little bit because we were a little preoccupied with, uh, Browns Hill. But, um, I did talk to you till about it, and they're they're very willing to do it. It's a matter of sort of getting it. Cost estimate. And I talked to Joe about, um, funding and he said, um, he thinks he can find the funding if it's within a certain amount.

01:31:11,868	S4:
So I, you know, I just think one session with them to go through the details of, you know, how do you administer the code effectively.

01:31:20,300	S11:
And so I'd, I'd really like to hear from other board members about what they feel about priorities though.

01:31:27,901	S1:
Well, I think as a practical matter, though, that that, you know, some board members have to spearhead certain efforts. And so it's it's really it falls on the design team that we have here to to move forward with that. I mean, I could give it a shot, but I don't have the, um, I just don't have the I would be starting from scratch. Yeah. In terms of searching different towns with their design guidelines. So you probably have looked at some and you know which towns have good ones and bad ones and I would I, you know, I would just be looking maybe Lexington I don't know, I would it would be a Google search for me. Um, um, I personally, you know, can fool around with the bylaws, you know, in the comfort of my office just cutting and pasting. I mean, that is something that that I feel very comfortable with. And those two things can proceed on dual tracks and then come back to the full board with ideas. And then, you know, to the extent you want to grab people to help with different tasks, then I think that that, um, should happen. But I think you're right. We need to get you teal in here and figure out how how this is all going to work.

01:32:53,501	S4:
Um, because writing a design guidelines for a form based code is what the challenge is. We're already a step ahead of some other town that just wants to do a design guidelines because we we've.

01:33:06,467	S19:
Addressed.

01:33:07,067	S1:
Our setbacks.

01:33:07,801	S4:
We've got setbacks massing. You know, we've got a roof details. And we already have significant information. But there are a lot of the little details that are missing from their work. And and it's not that we want to really define everything down for the last we do want. I'm I'm really sensitive to allowing for a lot of creativity, but you have to establish really the boundaries. You know, I think in.

01:33:31,601	S11:
A great set of design design guidelines, even encourages with thoughtfulness, breaking all the rules in the design guidelines. Yeah. So that's yeah. You know, that's what a good set of design guidelines.

01:33:44,167	S4:
Well constraints can can actually be sources of inspiration actually.

01:33:48,267	S11:
And that to and also if somebody comes in and wants to do something really dramatically different but they see the why's of the design guidelines, it gives them, um, you know, some something to to respond to. So the idea is not to, to be Prescriptive in style in any way, shape or form. It's really just about, um, creating streetscapes and, and environments that are consistent with, you know, with what Hamilton values, but not about style.

01:34:20,767	S1:
Materials are important in that regard.

01:34:23,100	S11:
Yeah, but they don't have to be dictated or prescribed.

01:34:25,567	S19:
Right.

01:34:29,000	S11:
So but again, I would be I'd be curious. You know, this is just a few people talking. I'd be curious if other board members, um, support this, you know, this set of priorities or is there something different that we should be working on because it's, you know, we need everybody. We need everybody's support. Whatever we in, whatever we embark on.

01:34:56,868	S3:
Are you in favor of looking at the town zoning map? There's another topic of We had a lot of interesting like the the recent work last year. But then now Greenbelt have come up with, you know, the funding required to purchase your back. There's going to be I don't know, I guess that's just mechanics of updating a map. And maybe there's not a lot of creative freedom for us there, but I don't know. We had a there's a downtown district, you know, related to the guidelines and what our overlay district represents. But I don't know if the map has caught up with all the it might be interesting to refer back to the map at some point.

01:35:37,167	S19:
I think the.

01:35:37,767	S1:
Map has gone.

01:35:38,667	S19:
Up, hasn't it?

01:35:39,267	S7:
Has it.

01:35:40,100	S8:
Yeah. It's in the process because we just changed sales.

01:35:43,167	S3:
So that's not happened yet.

01:35:45,000	S8:
But dating the map okay. All of the I agree though would be nice to have you know, all the town center districts.

01:35:51,901	S3:
And.

01:35:52,300	S8:
Yeah.

01:35:54,667	S3:
The one map.

01:35:55,267	S8:
We will have that we're required to have that.

01:35:57,667	S3:
Yeah okay.

01:35:59,801	S14:
So will the map have the three? Eh?

01:36:02,501	S19:
Yeah.

01:36:03,267	S2:
Okay.

01:36:05,200	S19:
So.

01:36:06,067	S1:
So what do other members think of our priorities?

01:36:11,000	S18:
Well, how many do you do you want?

01:36:13,767	S19:
Well.

01:36:14,667	S18:
You know, you can't have too many. But from what I'm hearing, it sounds like eventually the downtown there will be a downtown project. So we probably should start with design review or the design guidelines, because that could happen tomorrow. Yeah. And we really don't have anything. And it sounds from what I heard, the iPod rewrite sounds really important too, right? Um, and the states preservation. Right. Um, because some estate can come up at any time, too, especially with the economy changing.

01:36:46,267	S19:
Yeah. Yeah.

01:36:47,100	S18:
So maybe those three things are enough to start. Mhm.

01:36:54,567	S14:
Yeah. I'm not sure that how many applications we're going to get on accessory by law units. When you have a town that has a lot of, you know, post-war single family, half acre, quarter acre houses, you know, squeezing in an accessory unit is really difficult. It's not like you have a, a back that you can add a wing onto or something that that fits with the house. It's it's it's very, very difficult. And I'm, I mean, on the one hand that makes me think, gee, we really ought to hit this off of the past and have some pretty strict design guidelines. How do you take a, you know, a 3000 square foot house on a quarter acre and add, you know, an extra living unit onto it that's really difficult and have it not look like it's an outhouse or some, or a garage or son. You know, it makes some sense out of it. And so if I thought there was a, you know, a swell of interest in doing that, lots of people have, you know, grandparents or parents they want to bring in and so on. Um, then I would say that would be a very high priority, but I'm not sure that there's actually a crying out need for that.

01:38:23,767	S1:
Well, you'd be surprised. There are two adults in woodland meet alone in woodland.

01:38:30,000	S19:
Yeah. Yeah.

01:38:31,400	S14:
And so when did they do?

01:38:33,200	S19:
Do them?

01:38:34,167	S8:
I believe so. I'm not sure they but many since the.

01:38:37,367	S19:
They.

01:38:37,567	S8:
Approach to the bylaw. But I think there's been at least a couple.

01:38:40,901	S19:
Yeah.

01:38:41,267	S1:
We'd have to ask the building.

01:38:42,767	S14:
Well then I backtracked that and say we ought to.

01:38:45,968	S3:
I'm going to go lickety split.

01:38:47,968	S14:
And think about.

01:38:49,267	S19:
Uh, well, that's also.

01:38:51,100	S1:
We have access to, to sample Adu guidelines. So in terms of putting that together, that's not anywhere near as complex as doing the town center. So I think that that's something that is pretty straightforward, you know, and and but the town center, I think the first thing we need to do is get you, T.O. back in here and maybe, you know, have a discussion with them and and maybe they could even have access to some. You have your, your work product from Simsbury, but they might even have access to some that they could bring with them for our benefits. So. So it would be helpful to get util before the planning board as soon as possible. Okay, that's my thinking. And then and then also the planning board spending money. This is going to make Joe happy. Um, we need to think about the GP And and.

01:39:53,767	S19:
Yes.

01:39:54,467	S1:
You know what? I would think that there's only the one provision with the 80,000ft² requirement that then just has to have caveats attached to it. This section is not applicable if you have this kind of system, right.

01:40:11,901	S11:
Yes. But that has to be specified out by an engineer.

01:40:15,701	S19:
Not exactly.

01:40:16,667	S1:
But I mean, the rest of the bylaw doesn't have to be.

01:40:19,767	S19:
No, it.

01:40:19,901	S11:
Doesn't have to be revamped. No. Yeah.

01:40:21,701	S19:
No.

01:40:22,100	S1:
So so that so although that requires expertise in, in, you know, a knowledge base that I frankly don't have. Uh, I think it's straightforward. And, you know, I think David Smith from the Board of Health would be happy to work with the planning board on this very topic. I mean, if we did get an engineer or whatever, uh, given that he's responsible for septic systems and whatnot, he would have, um, you know, something to to say. And he could potentially help us with these kinds of things. So. So I think that's doable. Assuming that we have a budget. Um, and.

01:41:05,400	S19:
I.

01:41:06,567	S1:
Have so little knowledge of this, um, is it common knowledge, what systems are out there that would work in the body? Does anyone know off the top of their head?

01:41:19,467	S11:
Well, any septic engineer will understand the different types of systems. And so we don't need a specialty consultant. We just need a, you know, a sanitary engineer to help us with it.

01:41:30,200	S1:
But, I mean, I don't even know. I mean, I know there are tight tanks and I know they're leaching fields full stop.

01:41:36,100	S19:
Yeah. That's right.

01:41:38,968	S1:
Uh, and then in terms of playing around with the estate overlay district and all of that, that, that I don't think, as a practical matter needs to to to be on a fast track because we'll never get it to town meeting in April and but I can play with it in my free time because I'm retired, so I can just play with it. And then when it's in some kind of format, I can I can provide you with, um, you know, some ideas. But I really think Browns Hill is a nice format because when we had the tables that that could work in a consolidated, um, uh, you know, by.

01:42:27,501	S19:
Law.

01:42:28,000	S1:
I mean, we could have the density bonus if you provide conservation, this, that and the other, we could.

01:42:34,868	S19:
We could.

01:42:35,801	S1:
You know, again, it's.

01:42:36,868	S19:
It's.

01:42:37,367	S1:
It's just an idea.

01:42:38,701	S19:
Stage.

01:42:39,167	S1:
But it could work and maybe be usable.

01:42:43,367	S14:
The only thing that we the only experience we've had, only market we've had. But this is the senior housing cluster. Cluster bylaw, right? And we only have how many applications do we have for that? Three.

01:42:56,667	S8:
Yeah a handful. 3 or.

01:42:58,801	S19:
4.

01:42:59,067	S1:
Well we had.

01:42:59,567	S19:
133.

01:43:00,367	S1:
Essex, corner Brook and Paton Ridge.

01:43:03,868	S4:
None of which were really close to housing.

01:43:05,901	S19:
Right.

01:43:07,300	S14:
Well it is. No it is. It is, it is. Um, and, um.

01:43:15,767	S14:
I mean, I think that's a viable that's the one overlay bylaw that, um, suggests there's a, a big interest in cluster housing.

01:43:27,167	S19:
Yeah. Um.

01:43:28,868	S1:
You know, the interesting thing is, I wonder, you know, some of these estates, I mean, I, I, I don't know all the people who own these estates, but, uh, I don't know whether they have heirs that are willing to to Maintain these properties. I mean, 5000ft², uh, historic type home.

01:43:51,300	S19:
Um, I don't know what.

01:43:54,000	S18:
I said with no insulation.

01:43:56,000	S14:
Well, the other thing is, some of them.

01:43:58,100	S1:
I mean, there's the potential. Some of the owners are not young, so.

01:44:03,267	S14:
But some of them, I mean, there's a couple of the 13. There's, you know, 3 or 4 that are stone structures that could serve as the bedrock for, you know, almost any kind of commercial development. Mhm. Um, but there's also a bunch of them that are, you know, rundown, ramshackle, 500 zero square foot houses that nobody wants to put the money into.

01:44:32,367	S19:
Yeah.

01:44:35,200	S14:
The grid street thing was very interesting. Everybody know about that. Is that the Gardiner property? That's 150 acres with a 1910 shot. You know, depending on your perspective. Charming colonial. It wasn't even colonials. Charming. I don't know what kind of house it was. 1910 house. And.

01:44:57,601	S14:
Without any encouragement. Most of the land was preserved. And there were two lots on Bridge Street, and the gatehouse was separated off, but there was like 120 acres behind, which was all preserved. And then the main house, just in 1910. House? Uh, everybody was saying, oh, it'll be preserved. It's a charming house, you know, on five acres, eight acres, some amount of land to give it a lot of privacy. Some guy came in and paid $2 million for it, and it's on the slot. Slaughter. Slaughter block. It's just I don't even. It's. I don't think the. I think they have to wait a year for the historic demolition bylaw because.

01:45:45,167	S19:
The house is this.

01:45:46,267	S16:
I'm not sure I know what.

01:45:48,000	S14:
The Gardner Gardner house on.

01:45:49,400	S2:
The street. Brick.

01:45:50,467	S9:
Brick building.

01:45:51,000	S2:
No no no.

01:45:51,467	S14:
No. It's a yellow. You can barely see it from the road. Yellow. It has a gatehouse. It's at the dip.

01:45:57,901	S16:
Oh, yeah.

01:45:58,767	S14:
With the gatehouse. And you go back up and in and there's a 7000 square foot, uh, you know, house that you think is charming, but it's just got every single thing possible wrong with it. And somebody paid $2 million for that just to get the seven acres. And the nice site is developable. You know, one, one, you know, they're tearing down the 7000 square foot, they're going to build a new 7000 square foot.

01:46:26,601	S8:
And the historic district commission.

01:46:30,467	S14:
They didn't have any jurisdiction on it.

01:46:32,367	S8:
They could have done the one year delay, but they opted not to.

01:46:34,868	S14:
They opted not not to because the the owner was very well-meaning, was going to save some of the fixtures in the house and build the nicest house you could possibly imagine.

01:46:45,701	S2:
And yeah.

01:46:48,200	S14:
You know, the house that was there, it just it was B, you know, beyond repair.

01:46:53,200	S2:
Yeah.

01:46:53,868	S14:
It didn't look like it. You could drive up to it. This is a charming, lovely house, but in fact.

01:46:59,467	S11:
Is 13 Essex on your list of estates?

01:47:04,000	S12:
35 acres.

01:47:06,400	S23:
Let me check.

01:47:07,767	S22:
30. 18.

01:47:08,901	S11:
Because that's an Olmsted property.

01:47:10,667	S19:
Yeah.

01:47:12,100	S14:
We're 13 is where.

01:47:14,300	S18:
We have the town line.

01:47:16,000	S22:
Now lined with.

01:47:18,167	S18:
Row and.

01:47:20,000	S8:
13.

01:47:20,467	S23:
Essex.

01:47:21,667	S7:
Yeah. Number row 19.

01:47:24,167	S1:
Yes.

01:47:24,567	S19:
It is.

01:47:24,968	S2:
Yep.

01:47:25,267	S19:
There it is. It is.

01:47:26,100	S11:
How many acres is that?

01:47:27,267	S7:
31.62.

01:47:28,367	S19:
Yeah.

01:47:29,367	S11:
So that's a like I said, that's an that's an Olmsted designed landscape and an estate house.

01:47:34,801	S18:
Country house. It's very special.

01:47:37,667	S11:
So I don't know if you did in the state overlay district whether you'd have any provision for.

01:47:45,667	S11:
For historic landscapes.

01:47:48,767	S8:
There are a fair amount of homes that are on like 12 acre properties that are but otherwise meet the criteria. So we were to loosen the acreage requirements. I think that would add quite a few properties.

01:48:06,100	S1:
And the assessor can pull this easily. So if we were to just hypothetically change.

01:48:11,100	S19:
This.

01:48:11,567	S1:
Because there are large properties, but they don't have old houses.

01:48:15,567	S19:
On them.

01:48:16,167	S22:
Oh 13.

01:48:16,901	S16:
Right there.

01:48:18,067	S18:
An estate is an estate.

01:48:19,701	S1:
Anyhow, we have a plan. It's even though we had nothing pressing on our agenda. Still approaching 9:00.

01:48:29,367	S19:
Okay.

01:48:30,100	S1:
Planning board likes to talk. Well, we have a plan. And so at our next meeting, Mark, I think if you report and if any of us have, you know, ideas or want to try and talk to me about amending the bylaw or talking to Amel and John.

01:48:52,868	S14:
Do we think for the for the next meeting, we can actually get an engineering study on the stormwater bylaw for myopia?

01:49:03,100	S8:
No, not for January 27th. We continue to the following week, which is February 3rd.

01:49:10,868	S16:
That's like three weeks away.

01:49:12,267	S8:
Three weeks.

01:49:12,667	S2:
Okay.

01:49:13,501	S16:
Yeah. Um. And we won't be here.

01:49:16,200	S14:
They they do want to break ground soon.

01:49:19,100	S2:
Yeah.

01:49:19,868	S16:
Um. We won't we're not going to be able to meet here again until March. Is that the plan?

01:49:25,868	S23:
Till March?

01:49:27,000	S1:
How about the 27th? Are we here on the 27th?

01:49:29,501	S8:
Here on the 27th? No. So I will update you where it is. I'm trying to get the community house. gets a little roomier.

01:49:35,601	S16:
Um, and would there be zoom options? Because I won't be available on the 27th or the third in person. Do you know?

01:49:42,367	S22:
Yes. There will be a zoom option.

01:49:44,868	S8:
Um, just not sure about the venue yet.

01:49:47,167	S22:
Okay. That's fine. So the meeting is February 20th.

01:49:54,467	S22:
Two. Tuesday.

01:49:59,467	S1:
So, yes, I think we need that motion.

01:50:02,400	S16:
Uh, I make a motion to adjourn.

01:50:04,267	S18:
Second.

01:50:05,067	S1:
Yes. Um.

01:50:06,267	S22:
Darcy.

01:50:07,267	S1:
So when I call your name, would you please indicate that you assent to this motion? Uh, Pat Norton.

01:50:13,367	S3:
Pat Norton.

01:50:13,868	S1:
I Jonathan. Poor.

01:50:15,167	S11:
Jonathan. Poor.

01:50:15,868	S1:
I will Wheaton.

01:50:17,167	S14:
Bill Wheaton, I.

01:50:18,167	S1:
Emil dahlquist.

01:50:19,000	S4:
Emil. Dahlquist. Die.

01:50:20,167	S1:
Darcy. Dale.

01:50:21,000	S18:
Darcy. Dale I.

01:50:22,167	S1:
Beth her.

01:50:22,868	S16:
I.

01:50:23,400	S1:
Am Arnie crouch, I.

01:50:27,267	S8:
Thanks, Matt.