00:00:00,467 S1: So we are our goals for this workshop are to kind of have a postmortem debrief about the entire, um, elementary school project, which an hour I think is short. But also, um, we're in the middle of two community conversations where a lot of info is being held. So I think we're going to have a lot to work with. So Dana had sent out an email asking everybody to think about what went well, what didn't go well, and what questions do we have. So I feel like a good format might be to just because we're small, just to go around and kind of talk about each question, um, in that order, and I'll just keep an eye on the time and just keep an eye on the focus and just interrupt. If we kind of get off track or if we are spending too much time on the question. Okay, I just have a question, but I don't know, I because I wasn't able to attend because of the late start. It's no one's fault. Um, did anyone go? What happened? Maybe like the top three? 00:01:06,367 S2: Sure. So, interestingly, it was the three of us who were there. Well, there's another one on the 29th. That's why I go to that. Yeah. There wasn't. Yeah. So. And it was I mean I don't I it was extremely well attended. It was wonderful. Especially given that it was like a horrible. Yeah icy day. Um, so I mean, I don't know if is that helpful if we start with just kind of our I mean, I do want to share what your impressions were of the. 00:01:32,968 S1: I thought that turnout was great. Um, um, I thought it was everybody was really. 00:01:39,100 S3: Actively engaged, collaborative. 00:01:41,767 S1: I think there were a lot of good suggestions. 00:01:44,667 S3: I think it was good to hear directly from the community in that forum. I don't think that there any, at least in terms of things that were said out loud, I don't think there was any big surprises, But there were portions of the workshop where people submitted ideas and other things in writing. And that data is still being gathered because it will be one more workshop. So I'll be curious to see any like final reporting from Erick about like the final kind of amalgamation of all that data. Um, but I thought it was really it was really great. So, I mean, it was it was informative, I would say. 00:02:21,267 S1: Was it like a was it like a back and forth? Was it just people talking. 00:02:26,267 S2: Asking that? Was it. You were in small table groups. So there was a like discussion at least I can't you it would be interesting. Like my table had a diversity of opinion. I don't know if yours both did also, but that was helpful. Like um, and I did speak to someone that I, um, know a little bit, and she said the same thing that her table group was very diverse in their opinions and that that was I wish I could frame it exactly how she said it, but she said it nicely. She sort of said, well, I heard some ideas that I hadn't heard before from the other side. And I think they heard some things from me that they hadn't heard before. She was clear that she didn't feel like anyone changed their mind, but she felt like. So I felt like that was a good feedback, that like, that was good. And I would say that was true. At the table I sat at as well, but it really was just information gathering, like it was just gathering tons of information. 00:03:25,267 S1: Did they ask those three questions that we're asking? No, it was really it was it was more more specific. I mean, Eric, um, used this format of this six, six hats. Yeah. Um, have you heard of that before? Yeah. And I don't want to take two. No, I mean, and I'm guessing the other one will be a similar structure. So, um, but I think it just it was a great format for a couple of reasons. One, because he asked us to have conversations as a table, but also was collecting individual answers. So it gave people a chance to have a conversation but also give their own answers. That's okay. There's no problem. Yeah. Um, so I'm looking forward to seeing the data, but I really liked being able to speak to people face to face and have conversations because I think that is, um, I don't know, just kind of the best way to hear what people are saying. Yeah. Okay. Anyone else want to add anything? Yeah. Of course. 00:04:28,901 S2: Yeah. No, I hope that I hope that the turnout on the 29th is as good if, if not better. But I mean, it really was. 00:04:36,767 S1: And it was recorded. So if you want to watch it you can. 00:04:39,267 S2: Yeah. As is this being recorded. 00:04:41,100 S1: Yes. Okay. 00:04:41,868 S4: I didn't I didn't know that. 00:04:42,868 S2: Okay. Um. 00:04:44,000 S1: Um, okay. So let's talk a little bit about what went well with the last A handful of years. 00:04:54,667 S2: Two, three. 00:04:55,267 S1: And a half years. Three years. Um, and I'm, I mean, I'm interested in everybody's feedback, Chris. And I feel like your feedback I'm interested in because for a good chunk of that time, you weren't on the committee. So you were. 00:05:06,000 S3: Wrong at that time. Right. 00:05:08,367 S1: So, yeah, I mean, I mean, like I said, I'm interested in what everybody has to say, but not to put you on the spot. You don't have to answer right away. 00:05:15,100 S3: Okay. 00:05:16,467 S1: So. But you okay? 00:05:19,267 S3: Yeah. And so I don't actually have the questions off, but the first question I wanna talk about is what? We're correct. Okay. So I actually think there there's always like room for improvement. Right. And things that we can do differently and do better. I think by and large, I think it was a very professional process in terms of the planning. And I will say that part of what informs my opinion on this is that I did go to a number of the presentations with the designer architect team that was held, like at the high school auditorium. Um, there was another gathering with the Mothers Club. Like, I felt as though, at least where the ways that I'm involved in the community, that there were sufficient opportunities to be informed and to ask questions. I know other people don't feel that way, that they were not aware of all these things or they weren't, you know, done in a way where they felt welcome or whatever it might be. But at least for the parts of the community where I've been engaged, I felt like there were sufficient opportunities to be engaged in the process. And I'm a one of them resident, so I wasn't as in tune with the town information that Hamilton was producing. Although I was somewhat aware of it, I was more paying attention to Wenham, and I think the one, um, Finance Committee did a really good job with its financial analysis. And I felt as a one on resident that we were very fortunate to have all of those folks volunteering their time? Yes, in that way, to do that, because I know that committee is a big lift. Um, so I felt that that was well thought out and they were very, you know, clear and thoughtful and clarifying where their numbers came from, where there were assumptions were made and so on and so forth. So I thought that the financial presentation was also well done because, as we all know, like the town budgets include our districts budget, but also a lot of other things that the town, you know, wants to accomplish. So I thought that was done. Well, I thought, um, the design of the school was thoughtful with the different learning neighborhoods and things like that. The elementary school that I attended was somewhat organized in that way, not as formally, but there were different parts of the building where you had the younger grades and the older grades, and my school was K through eight until the junior high was kind of in its own wing. And, and I think like that to me made sense because that, you know, kind of dovetailed with the experience that I had. Um, and I also liked the idea of consolidating for a number of reasons. I mean, obviously financial, but also, I think to make sure that all of the kids in the district are having a consistent experience. You know, and they're open to the same opportunities. Um, and I think also to kind of bring to really kind of foster community and all of the kids knowing all the other kids in town that are their age. Um, you know, because I know with my youngest kind of starting kindergarten this year, like some of his, his best little buddy is at Cutler and he's at Booker. And like, they they're still friends. They can still see each other and things like that. But I think they're and they're also only in kindergarten. I understand like I have other children. Friendships change wildly after that time. But just in thinking like how nice it could be to have everybody together and for kids to have the opportunity to know more of their peers and to have a better chance of finding pairs that they gel with, and to give the teachers more options, and creating home rooms and classes and things like that. So I did think all of that was were the positives. 00:08:56,667 S1: Okay. 00:08:57,701 S3: Great. In my own opinion. Thank you. I don't know. 00:09:01,467 S1: Anyone else want to go next? 00:09:03,467 S2: Sure. Um, so I'm going to try to highlight. I agree with a lot of what Kristen said, but I'm going to try to say things that are also different to me. When I looked at it, I thought, well, what went well? Um, part of it was just in terms of process that we met. In other words, we met all the requirements, deadlines for the MSBA like we the district. It's a very complicated process, and we were able to go through that process effectively. And I do want to reiterate, I was actually on the call and it was a, you know, a call in which we were, you know, getting approved by the MSBA and the, um, one of the questioners on the voting board there spent a lot of time talking about the educational plan being one of the best that this group had ever seen. Um, and that it was highlighted by the MSBA and I, I felt like that was really that's really a question of what did our district, the administration, do? Well, um, to make all those deadlines and go so and, and to get to the point where the MSBA was going to give us this much money. Um, so I think regardless of how people felt about the actual project, I just think it's important to see, like our district was capable of managing something that's pretty complicated and doing it well. Um, so I thought that was something that went well. Um, I, um, some of the things that Kristen highlighted, I do did agree with there were. Um, I actually think you said I did it really well. Like, we had a lot of gatherings. We had opportunities for people to come. I attended visioning sessions and things that people were able to come. I'm really glad that they were there. I see when we get to what didn't go well, I'm going to say we see that some people didn't feel that they knew about those or they didn't participate, but they did exist and people did come. And we did hear from people, and I did happen. Um, I think that's important. Um, I'm so glad you said that about the one I'm thinking, because I had sort of. I didn't have that on my list, but I have mentioned that to people several times that both and cons actually did a really good job of explaining it. And the one in common particular, um, there's a very, very long, complicated meeting in which they really explained the I really. They did a tremendously good job. Um, so, um. 00:11:54,267 S1: Maybe I'll stop. 00:11:54,801 S2: There, there. But maybe I'll stop there, but, um. Yeah. 00:11:59,767 S1: Okay. Don't add anything. 00:12:01,868 S4: Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know what I would add. I really agree with the, um, one, and I think that we did a lot of great work, the quintuple boards together. Um, I think that, you know, there was years of work, um, working with the towns on this project. And also I was going to highlight the, um, the MSBA grant and what they said about it and how they said, um, that it was one of the best proposals they've ever seen. Um, so in terms of what went well, I mean, if you're thinking about, like the process and the vote, then I think those two things. But like the project. I was actually initially like very, very initially kind of skeptical about it. And I it's interesting because I grew up in Beverly with like giant elementary schools. Um, and now they're doing, you know, the middle school is, um, for grades, which I actually really agree with. But I do think like, ha, Eric having like an open door policy and talking to Eric and being going to the visionary sessions or learning more about, um, the school than I actually became like a really big proponent of it because I really understood how it would contribute to equitable educational goals for all of the elementary school kids. Because, I mean, honestly, right now I know we're doing the best that we can, but it's there's disparate things going on amongst the three elementary schools. And I think the parents see it and, um, are very aware of it. And I think this would have contributed to a more equitable, um. Educational outcomes for students. But that's the project. But I think yeah, I also think, you know, it was it's a testament to us that I think that we were we had some really good debates at the school committee around it. Like nobody was just kind of like, this is amazing. Like right from the start, like we we asked really good questions. We had really great debate. Not we were not unanimous on a lot of things. Um, um, and I think that's important for democracy and for discussion. So I actually do think that went well. I would love us all to be unanimous, but I think it's good when we're not, you know, sometimes there's different perspectives that can be shared. 00:14:20,467 S1: Yeah. 00:14:21,100 S2: For sure. Can I add some? Yeah, sure. No, but just I, I, I know that I, and I think other people on the committee did share when they felt like I've shared a few times about how my original vision had been for the school to be located at Irondale, I had said. I had this vision that like that would, and I think other people shared when they had something that they envisioned that then, you know, we did the work to realize that that wasn't a possibility. I, I felt like that was good, like when people because it was a difficult thing. There were pros and cons to a lot of different choices. I guess I just process wise, like I think that was good when people were able to, um, like people talk about the things that they liked about the smaller schools and then being able to say, I see that there's. 00:15:19,767 S1: That's been addressed in the design. 00:15:21,367 S2: Right. Or. Yeah, or I'm specifically talking about the committee, like people being able to say like I, you know, I see this and I've it's been addressed. Oh, and I'm, you know, sad about it, but moving on or whatever. I just felt like there were. 00:15:36,567 S1: There were times like there. 00:15:37,367 S2: Were. 00:15:37,467 S1: Times like, for sure. So, um. Anything else? 00:15:41,400 S4: Oh, it's something I do think also went well is that we had a lot of community engagement. Um, we had a, you know, we very rarely have a lot of citizens comments. And, yeah, we had a lot of citizens comments and a lot of citizen participation. Um, so I think that's something that that went well or that was a good thing. 00:16:00,467 S1: Yeah, that was a good thing. I just have one thing to add. I agree with almost everything that's been said. Um, I really appreciated, from a communication standpoint, the website where if somebody submitted a question, it was answered and published on the website, which, you know, was from for some pretty lengthy reading. But, you know, if you could go on there and navigate and search for something that was on your mind, the information was there. Um, I do wonder, like going forward, if there's a way to make it more digestible, but I think that was really awesome to have a way to like an easy way to submit questions and then have them publish with the answer, like as soon as we could. Okay, move on to what didn't go well or areas of opportunity for next time. 00:16:54,400 S2: Yeah, I think I mean, I think what didn't go well didn't go well. 00:16:58,767 S1: Um, does anybody want to start with that one? 00:17:02,601 S4: Well, to me, I can only speak for myself. 00:17:04,567 S2: I mean, that's what you're talking about. 00:17:06,100 S4: Yep. So. Well, for me. 00:17:09,167 S1: Yes. 00:17:09,868 S4: Um. Or for what I think I believe and advocate for. Yeah. Um, I think that towards the end, the discussion started getting very personal. 00:17:23,000 S3: Mhm. 00:17:24,000 S4: Um. 00:17:25,000 S2: And can I ask you what discussions like where. 00:17:28,467 S4: Well, I try not to go. 00:17:30,467 S3: On. 00:17:30,667 S4: Facebook, but, um, I was getting sent screenshots of things from people that were being said about me that were being said about other community members. Um, specifically in the Hamilton one and Facebook group, and then also via email that we would receive or I would personally receive. So just kind of towards the end. It started to seem very personal and almost really not productive. 00:17:59,467 S1: Yeah. Like the purpose of what we're doing. 00:18:01,567 S4: Is to I don't know if students if you guys experienced that, but that was that was sort of my experience of it. 00:18:07,267 S1: I agree with you. Anything else that didn't go well in your eyes? 00:18:14,701 S4: I don't know. I well, well, you know how somehow it got wrapped up with three a, which is a totally separate issue and we could not extricate it. 00:18:23,300 S1: The timing was really hard. 00:18:24,567 S4: Yeah. Um, that was just unfortunate and kind of beyond our control. I'm not sure if there's a lesson to be learned there, but I think that was something that was unfortunate. 00:18:36,067 S1: That's true. Okay. 00:18:40,467 S2: Um, okay. Um, so I think a lot of things didn't go well. Um. 00:18:50,567 S2: So I've really thought a lot about this. Um, so I don't have the answers. These are things that didn't go well. Um, but a portion of the public definitely did not feel this is the feedback I've gotten. But a portion of the public definitely did not feel that what was being presented was true or real. 00:19:29,701 S2: And so if I'm saying what did we not do? Well, is that somehow I would have liked to have been able to better communicate. Um, that, um, and there's a there are numerous things in there. Some of it was around that, that this was a, a three, a related project. Um, there were just other things along the way that um, so I think that's really important that a significant or a chunk of the population did not feel that the school committee. And I'm going to talk about the school committee, I, you know, maybe the administration, too, but we are the school committee, um, wasn't providing truthful information. Um. 00:20:24,667 S2: I think we cannot have this conversation without talking about the multiple votes. Mhm. 00:20:30,267 S3: Um, yes. 00:20:32,000 S2: I if I've said this in our meetings, if I could have gone back in time and if I had fully understood, I personally would have wanted to explore the ballot vote first. And ideally I would have wanted to have the public have a long lead up to understanding that. And so to me, that did not go well. 00:21:02,100 S1: Yeah. 00:21:03,200 S2: That and it's it is optics but it's more than optics. It's I think I and I voted for it, I take ownership for it. This was very important project that I really believe would have been a benefit to our town. And I wanted to make sure that it had every opportunity and it's real that people had to vote many times and that it was divisive and that didn't go well. So I think I agree we need to take ownership of that. Yeah. Um, and I'm gonna stop. But I have a lot of what didn't go well. I my dream in building a new school. I have a lot of dreams about education and what's right for students. Um, but we all, many of us. I don't think Kristen was on the committee, but when we talked about the, um, athletic fields opening, the feeling that I got at that meeting, at that opening when we were there with, like, the whole community and everyone was there was a sense of community pride. And that's really what I hoped to achieve with this school. And the level of division that was ended up being in our community did not serve that goal. And so that's something that didn't go well. 00:22:21,367 S1: I agree. 00:22:23,367 S2: I'm getting emotional. 00:22:24,267 S1: I'm going to stop. I'll send your thoughts about what didn't go well. 00:22:30,000 S3: Um, so. Because I was not on the committee. Through all this time, I have maybe more of a different view here. It's kind of like now I see things a little bit more, kind of from both sides, because I feel as though I have a much deeper understanding of the budgetary challenges and the facilities challenges. Um, so I think obviously when you have a bad outcome like this kind of whatever it is, I think the problem is ultimately like with the process and the communication about the process. And I think for me, I think there is not a good understanding, not necessarily because of the fault of the school committee. I think there's multiple reasons why this happens Of who gets to decide things and when. So I think the fact that the idea of consolidation and the place of consolidation was essentially decided by a committee. Even though that committee was appointed through public process, even though the public could weigh in on that committee and was invited to do so even though there were opportunities to weigh in. I think that was kind of a major stumbling block for a lot of people. Um, I've lived in town pretty much my whole life, but I would not say that I'm a quote necessarily a townie because my parents did not grow up here, but I have lived here in my whole life. Um, and I think, you know, if the consolidated school had been maybe presented for the Winthrop site, it might have happened because I just feel like there was maybe more of, like a energy around the community wanting a school there because they didn't want another use there. And maybe not at the Cutler site. And maybe I wasn't I wasn't really aware of this, but maybe even the current of Butters to Cutler aren't so thrilled that there's a school there currently like of the current size. So the idea of a bigger school is maybe even less attractive, you know? So and I think kind of understanding like that, there is this school building committee that's deciding these things. And when it comes to the time of the vote, it's partially because of the way our government, our local government structure, it was an up or down vote on the appropriation. It wasn't like you could say, well, I approve this. If it costs this, my first choice is this. But I'd be okay with a second choice of this. When you have an up and down vote options. Yeah, there's not like an opportunity for like ranked choice voting or alternatives. It's kind of like the committee produces this as the as the yes or the no. And then the public has to vote. And I think that's very hard, and I'm very sympathetic to the people that had to walk that path. Now, as we've been talking about our budget, because in a lot of ways we're trying to kind of guess, you know, what are the most important things for the district's budget to prioritize how much expense budget is too much when you like it triggers an override or triggers too large of an override. And also, I think just the cost of facilities maintenance and improvements, given the legal requirements of those to have a designer to have these things, to have prevailing wage and all this and that makes that so expensive. So even on a year over year budget basis, I think the district's budget is probably likely underfunded to achieve what we're trying to do presently. And I'm sure that is a very difficult or unwelcome or even unbelievable message for some people that our district budget is, you know, $42 million. How can that be too small? 00:26:17,701 S1: Right. 00:26:18,567 S3: You know, and I think as you kind of get into the detail of it and you see, like, this is what we're paying for, this is what their salaries are. This is the benefits. I mean, I don't think people are getting wealthy by and large, teaching and public education, you know, and just how much is really left over to make the kinds of improvements that the public wants? Um, unfortunately, it does burden the real estate tax, real estate tax base because that's that is our central stream of revenue. 00:26:49,667 S1: Right. 00:26:50,167 S2: Can I can I I'm just I'm sorry, but I wonder I had a, you know, a meeting with a citizen who said to me, um, you know, the way that taxes are, it's I'm going to try to that it's, um, you know, because I always think about like that, you know, you're you have excellent schools and you that increases your property value. right? And that's true. And it is really true. I went and did some research after I spoke with this citizen who was like, you know, my house would be more and more in Beverly. And I was like, really? Because I always think that. But one of the things that I really did do some research on, and it is true, like our tax rates are impacting house values like that, people. 00:27:36,267 S3: Are deciding not to. 00:27:37,000 S2: Move, people are deciding not to move here because and I really did some research and that hasn't been true in the past and it is more so it's important on a number of my whole point is just that it's not just it's the tax rate is we need to think about it in a big picture kind of way, because it is true that your home value is increased by having excellent public education, and it's also true that your home value is impacted by your tax rate. Right. Also. 00:28:04,367 S3: But these things. 00:28:04,868 S2: Are and I think that's a part that I've learned through this process that I wasn't, because I don't think that was the conventional wisdom several years ago. And now that is. Yeah. So I've learned something. I'm sorry that I stepped on you. 00:28:18,701 S1: Oh, no. That's okay. 00:28:19,701 S3: Um, no, I think that's true. And I do think that these things are all connected. Um, in terms of other things that didn't go well, I think. Well, I have kind of two more things to say, I guess. And there's some both related. I think, you know, sharing information in this current moment, regardless of who you are and what you're trying to share or what your business or organization is, is very hard. I think we have never had access to more information, and it has never been more difficult to find what you're looking for. 00:28:53,000 S2: Um, to find what's accurate. 00:28:55,367 S3: Yeah. And I and I think that the, all the information was there in terms of the school district website, the town websites. But I think that and there could be emails, there could have been links, there could have been all these things and all of that did happen. But I think people have become very accustomed to having information like spoon fed to them and to find the most, like frictionless path to information. So I think that if it requires, like mining a website, a minority of people are going to do that, to go on to a website and find the information and read it and think about it and understanding. And I think it's really easy for no matter what you're doing to like, post on social media, post in a Facebook group, try to Google it and you could be getting 100% accurate, thorough information back. Or it could be completely wrong. Like regardless of what your question is. 00:29:48,868 S2: Yeah. 00:29:49,067 S3: That's true. Um, and so I think that the frictionless nature of the access to information that people will seek, just as a society right now is something that we have to really be thinking about and making it as easy as possible for people to find accurate information, and I don't know how we do that. I could brainstorm ideas or suggestions or whatever. My concern is, is that real communications at a professional, consistent level just require a level of resources that the district and the two towns don't have, because I would lump the towns in with this as well. And so I don't know if there's a way for more collaborative, shared resources to enhance existing communication functions or what needs to happen. But I think that that is something just as a society, we need to get to the other side of, and I think it's just being writ small with our local municipal kind of spending decisions, information sharing decisions, because I think just because you weren't aware of something to the last minute doesn't mean that it was done underhanded. Right, right. You know, and so I think that that's a real, real problem. Um, and I do think too, like as a long time resident, I was very disappointed to see kind of some of the lack of civility that emerged during the process. And there's always been moments of that. But it reached a new, I guess, low, um, during this and I think, again, we're functioning as part of a larger social context where people are very afraid. Things are changing in society in a number of ways at the same time. So I do think that these things can all feed on each other, but I was very surprised by the level of negativity. Um, and I think a lot of people took that away from this because I think even yesterday at the community conversation, there was an opportunity people had to kind of weigh in on the word, the emotional word that they felt conceptually like captured the process for them. And those words were overwhelmingly negative words. Yeah, overwhelmingly. Yeah. And I thought that was that to me, is also like a failure of this whole thing that that people walked are walking away with it. With that level of upset. Now, granted, there was 50 people there. Not all 7000 residents of Hamilton. One of them, but I think it was a pretty good. It was a big cross-section. 00:32:17,167 S2: And you're right, those words were very overwhelmingly negative. 00:32:20,367 S1: Overwhelmingly negative. Just want to interject quickly about the negative words. I sat and kind of collected the words and felt like they could apply to anybody involved with the project, no matter which. 00:32:32,467 S2: Right that. 00:32:33,367 S1: Voted yes or no. Like, we all kind of felt the same. Which. Right. 00:32:36,801 S2: Right. Both. Both. Both voting groups. Groups produced negative words about the process. 00:32:48,400 S4: Did they. 00:32:48,868 S1: Though? 00:32:49,267 S2: Well, yeah. So just from the at the at the meeting at the at the workshop. 00:32:53,767 S1: So towards like frustrated. 00:32:55,467 S4: Oh well. 00:32:56,000 S3: Disappointed. 00:32:57,167 S2: Disappointed. Contentious. So and those were from. 00:33:01,667 S4: Everybody's. 00:33:02,467 S2: Like Exactly like it didn't. You weren't able to determine. 00:33:06,868 S4: Right? 00:33:07,100 S1: Right. 00:33:07,501 S2: If someone said frustrated, you weren't able to determine whether they voted yes or no on the school. It it was. 00:33:13,367 S1: And I do think that that is an area that we could build on where, you know, if we're recognizing that everybody is frustrated, that kind of gives everybody equal ground a little bit, you know, like I'm putting. 00:33:26,901 S3: Like, how can we make this less frustrating? 00:33:28,901 S1: Yeah. But also like we're all frustrated. You're frustrated. I'm frustrated. You know, we all are sharing one feeling about it. So anyway, I didn't mean to derail what you're talking about, but I just wanted to add that I thought that was kind of interesting. 00:33:40,868 S3: Yeah, it was like a it made an impression. And I think I was going to say one other thing and it's just like kind of flew out of my brain. Oh, the other thing that I'm watching that too, is like the number of people that felt that they weren't listened to. Mhm. Um, and so I think that's important to because I think, I think people need to feel listened to, even, and understand that there's a nuance between being listened to and people doing what you're saying. 00:34:11,367 S1: Exactly. 00:34:12,100 S3: And so I think that was kind of a breakdown on this process as well, because just because people were saying they didn't want certain things to happen or they did want certain things to happen and those things didn't happen. It doesn't mean you didn't. Therefore, you didn't listen to me. So I think I'm building into this process in a way that everybody really does feel heard is. 00:34:37,868 S4: Understanding. 00:34:39,000 S3: That they might not prevail. Not prevail. Right. You know that everyone will be heard as part of this process, but no one person or group is going to get everything that it wants. And yes, advocate your. 00:34:51,067 S2: Your and I guess. 00:34:51,868 S3: What you. 00:34:52,267 S2: Do want self-reflective on that. Right. We the school committee did not get what the school committee wanted. And that doesn't mean we weren't heard, right. Like, that's hard to accept, but it's like that's. 00:35:08,868 S1: A good example. 00:35:09,501 S2: Of it's hard working that like that, like that, that like people said, this is not what we want. 00:35:18,667 S1: Right. Right. 00:35:19,701 S2: And so that's. 00:35:22,267 S4: And I do I do think that both sides felt disenfranchised because now I'm thinking, I really do think that the voting was a huge, huge problem and something that we have to think about if this ever comes back around. Um, but that first vote, wasn't it supposed to be here? And then there was too many people. 00:35:40,667 S2: It was. 00:35:40,968 S3: A town of one that was a. 00:35:42,567 S2: Winner in Wenham. It was a bummer. 00:35:44,567 S4: Yeah. And I know that there were a lot of people that wanted to vote yes, that got babysitters and were waiting in the. 00:35:49,100 S3: Hundreds and hundreds of people. 00:35:51,067 S4: Who couldn't. 00:35:51,367 S3: Vote. 00:35:52,267 S4: And yet hundreds outside. 00:35:53,868 S2: And and I will say that's all true. And I want to say it didn't pass in Hamilton, right. So anyway. So. 00:36:00,901 S4: Well, I'm just thinking. Like, I think there's all around. People felt disenfranchised. 00:36:05,067 S2: No. Right. No, I'm just saying, like that process. 00:36:07,501 S4: Like you were saying, the process is just as much a part of this. 00:36:11,100 S3: Yeah, I think. 00:36:11,868 S4: Project. 00:36:12,467 S3: I think the process is essential to an outcome that everybody can live with. I think it really is. I think that's because at least people will then say like, well, I had the opportunity to be informed. I was listened to. Now it's time for the decision making body. I'll say that because there are so many levels of decision making bodies here that are connected, that roll up into those final town meeting warrants. And I mean, I'm kind of like a history nerd. So I love town meeting and I love that, like, we all get to go and we all get to vote. And like, if we could wear, like, pilgrim outfits, I'd be for it. Like, I just think it's great in so many ways. But I also think, like, all the things that make it great, There are also so many problematic things because you have to be there in person. Like, yes, there is a bill pending to allow voting remotely and all these different things. 00:37:04,767 S4: I mean, for people with disabilities and people that can't accept it, it's disenfranchised. 00:37:09,000 S3: Exactly. And so that's the reason why it's like there are downsides to this format. And in the 21st century, I think people expect that technology should eradicate those downsides. But I think the legislation hasn't caught up with that. And I think, you know, the government wants to make sure that the right people, you know, people are authorized to vote. Like there's all these things that I think can be overcome, but like, we're not there right now. Right. So you have this town meeting process, which historically very, very, very few people participate in. 00:37:38,367 S2: That was I mean. 00:37:39,567 S3: So I don't really necessarily fault the town government for thinking that the, the gym and the overflow spaces that were set up would be enough. You know, and then we did move it to Gordon College and the turnout was way lower. Yeah, but at all, to your point, it may not have ultimately been material because of. 00:37:59,167 S2: Right. There were I mean, there were 400 people at Hamilton that had never been to a town meeting before. Right. That was the clicker question. Yeah. Was like, have you ever been to town meeting before? Right. Um, I know, and I mean, that's and I actually, I mean, maybe that should go under what's good. 00:38:15,868 S1: That people were engaged. 00:38:16,667 S2: That people were like, people came and now they've been to town meeting. They know that. I mean, like. 00:38:21,100 S4: Yeah, well, that's kind. 00:38:21,767 S1: Of what I have under my what didn't go well is engagement. So everyone's sort of touched on this already. So I spent a ton of time on it because we have about 20 minutes left, a little less than 20. But not everyone was engaged in all of the information. And even yesterday when people were talking about, you know, ideas for ways to engage the community, that happened. But not everyone knew about it. And I felt like we did a good job of getting the word out, sending out postcards, sending out emails and still not everyone knew, so I'm. I'm kind of racking my brain about like, how do we what are some creative ways that we can get the word out, get people involved in town meeting, you know, just in anything having to do with government. Because I agree, your form of government is very interesting, and it's a gift, right, for people to be able to be involved in that way. Um, so so that was my big thing for me. Like what didn't go well. Not everyone was engaged in all the information. We had short form videos. We had long, you know, answers on the website. We had lots of discussions and meetings. The whole MSBA process is all outlined on the site. But again, it's really, really long and really, you know, there's a lot to it. So um, that was the piece for me. And then just to reframe or restate the lots of misinformation and not know not everyone feeling like there was a central hub for getting the correct information, even though I feel like we have that. 00:39:53,968 S5: Well, I think it was just required too much effort. 00:39:56,567 S1: It was like. 00:39:57,567 S2: That's. And I and I've said to many people, I've said to many people in conversations like I myself don't follow and watch every single, like I'm not watching every planning board meeting, every, you know, zoning board, every select board meeting, every. I'm not like, you know, five times two towns like they're it's not reasonable to ask citizens right to watch, you know, dozens of meetings every month so that they can get informed. That's not reasonable. It's difficult to get information. I, I would be curious because I the newspaper came in about a year ago. 00:40:43,067 S1: I think, oh, if we had it. 00:40:45,167 S2: I'm curious about what that would have been like because. 00:40:48,100 S4: Turnout for the community conversations was good. Because of that, maybe. 00:40:51,267 S2: I mean, one of the things I think that's good about a newspaper that you don't. It just appears, is that even if you don't read it, the headline is going to land on your kitchen counter and you're not going to have the experience, which I think a lot of people had that like that. All of a sudden they were voting on a school that they didn't know that that was happening. I think if you had had that newspaper for the whole time, you would have at least seen like week after week. There would be a, um, you know, I um, before we had the newspaper, there would be it would be mind boggling to me that I'd be like and I would sometimes ask Eric, like, like there's no press. So like, this huge thing is going on and no one is contacting me. No one is contacting Eric. That's not true anymore. Yeah. Like now somebody is contacting and saying, yeah, you know, do you have a comment or whatever? 00:41:47,767 S3: Well, maybe for the 29th. We need to ask people in attendance. How did you hear about this? 00:41:52,667 S4: Yeah, right. 00:41:53,467 S3: To see what? 00:41:54,968 S1: Like an entry poll. 00:41:55,868 S3: Is it the postcard? Is it the paper? Was it Facebook, friend? What about whatever? Just to kind of see, like what's. I mean, because I used to do that with programming. Always have a mandatory question. How did you hear about this program? So I knew, like. 00:42:09,767 S2: What was working. 00:42:10,501 S3: What was working. You know, um, to do try to do more of it or improve other things, you know? Yeah. So that might be helpful. And I think you're right. I think the paper generally would have been an asset. Yeah. To the I. 00:42:23,067 S2: Mean, you know, I think I don't know that for sure. Right. I just know that like week after week you would get a paper and it would have a headline. And even if you didn't read the article, the headline would have said, like, you know, visioning sessions on new elementary school and it would start to sink in like, this is happening. And if you were interested in that, then you might read more. And if you weren't interested in that, which is okay, you don't have to be interested in every single thing, but it's okay. But at least it would be a little bit on your radar. Like, oh yeah, that's out there, that's happening. 00:42:56,100 S1: Um, so we have about 15 minutes left. And our last question is what questions do you have? But we can also keep discussing safely for. 00:43:07,100 S3: I mean, the only other thing that I would say about this process is I think that the that there were a lot of people that wanted to know the real cost of renovating. Um, and I think that the construction professional consultant person can't remember his name. I can see his face that he had, like white hair and glasses and stuff. He was basically like, well, we looked at this during the process like, you know, based upon the kind of the back of the envelope calculations it's going to be, you know, it was tens of millions of dollars to renovate the three schools versus like 40 million of town money. And with the MSBA match for the consolidated school. And I really got the feeling that that was not sufficient for a lot of people. Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean, even like over Christmas, I was talking to a relative of those in town. I was like, well, there really should be an up like a, like a, a study of all the buildings and what they need. And I was sort of like, that was done, you know, and so it was just really like, again, kind of a missing piece of information. And I think that, um, that wasn't enough. And I think it's really hard to explain to people why facilities work in the schools is so expensive. Yeah. Because I think it's one thing to say, like, well, I just redid my kitchen last year. 00:44:27,367 S1: And it. 00:44:28,000 S3: And it was this and like, this is ridiculous. And I think it's a totally different set of rules. 00:44:33,100 S2: It is I mean, I'll just say the very first thing that I said to Eric when we started getting the the magnitude, like when I started understanding the scale that we were talking about. I was like, you know, I'm looking at the Cutler site or the Winthrop site and my iron rail site, and I'm imagining and I'm thinking to myself, I know what, I live in Hamilton. I know what $1 million house looks like. I was like, we're not building $100 million houses. Like, it's easy to like. I think as a layperson, like that's your first instinct is natural to sort of say, this doesn't make any sense. Like how? And so I it's really important. Like I don't it's hard to educate yourself about like this is a whole different thing than what. Yeah. Um, I mean, maybe I'm just saying the same thing, but that literally was the first I, like, went into Eric and I was like, I am not understanding. 00:45:34,300 S3: Like, I think it's hard. And I think there were a lot of like other, I think very well-meaning like, well, this town renovated this building for this amount of money, or this town renovated this pool for this amount of money. Can't we do that and save all this money? And so I think it was very hard to connect the dots of like, yes, they did spend that. They put that out to bid. And the contract was signed in this year. And the cost per square foot of commercial construction using railing wage was ex. And now it's why, you know, I mean I think like you had to go I think layers deeper to get to some of that detail. And I think that's very hard. And or maybe it was a feeling that more for lack of a better term, like due diligence had to be done. And really kind of explaining renovating is not an option because of the code trigger, this and that and that, you know, like once you start touching this building, you're now gonna have to put in sprinkler. You're not gonna have to do this. And meanwhile, you can't do that over February break. So we're renting a fleet of trailers to put out here on the grass, where all the kids are going to go to school for a year or two. Well, we kind of do all this. And so I think there are so many pieces to that that I think were not spelled out with sufficient detail. The tricky bit of it is, I think to actually get to that level of detail would be very costly. Exactly. So I don't know what the feeling is or the willingness is to to pay for. 00:47:07,267 S3: Supplemental, I will say, because I don't think we need to start from scratch, but to build on work that was done, like supplemental design type work to get to those estimates. 00:47:17,367 S2: I mean, because I think if we had a magic wand, of course everyone would want I want that. I would want full design of what it looks like to build three new elementary school, what it looks like to build one, what it looks like to renovate all three. But each one of those things costs a ton of money. But like, I mean, you know, I the people who said they would really have loved if we could vote. Do you want this or do you want that? Yeah. Me too. I would have loved to have that, but it cost over $1 million to get to where we were. And you can't like, I don't know, so maybe, but I do. I'm so empathetic with that. 00:47:55,801 S4: Of course. 00:47:56,267 S2: Yeah. Thought process. Because it makes sense. 00:47:58,567 S3: Well, it's what you would do when you're like home life. Right, exactly. And so I think that that's, that's most people's frame of reference. And so you would make sense if I were doing this at home, I would get like three quotes and then I would make a decision, you know, and. 00:48:12,267 S2: Then you might and you might have like the dream, if you were doing a bathroom, you'd have like the dream bathroom, the middle one and the like, just get it done and like you'd like to like, and then you compare and then you, you'd make decisions about. 00:48:26,601 S3: Right. And so I think everyone maybe was not sure that we were not just going for the dream bathroom with no quotes. Right? 00:48:34,100 S1: Yeah, that seemed to me. 00:48:35,200 S4: I think that's a really good. 00:48:36,100 S2: Analogy, I think. Yeah. 00:48:37,667 S1: Yeah. I wonder if thinking about next steps and if we're considering doing something on our own, not through MSBA, that might be a benefit where we can say, here are two options. Like if we're kind of doing it our own way. Like so much of the MSBA process dictated how everything was structured and it created some pain points for, you know, how people think about renovation and how people think about choice and things like that. So maybe that's a silver lining to having to do your own. Mhm. 00:49:10,367 S2: Potentially. 00:49:11,167 S1: Potentially. Yep. Um eight minutes left. Could we not say anything everybody wanted to say. 00:49:18,100 S2: Yeah I mean I have I mean I think the big question you said like what are those questions. Um, I'm hoping and I think we're going to get I think we're getting it, but I, I'm hoping we're going to get clearer on what the public, Um. 00:49:37,667 S2: I mean, we got a vote, and the public doesn't want this. So I would love it if I could get clearer on what the public does want. And I'm getting mixed messages right now. And so I'd really love some way. I mean, that's it's the question was what's the question? Not what's the answer? I don't have the answer. My question is I would really love to know what, if anything, what the majority of the people would want. Whether that and I'm hearing, you know, there was is that a renovation of one school? Is it a renovation of three schools? Is it a renovation of two schools? Is it a new Cutler school? Just the Cutler size it is right now. And then ten years from now, a new Winthrop School, I don't know. And I want to hear and we don't that's my question. We don't need to answer that. But I'm not I'm not trying to answer it. That's my my question is, I would love to know what the public actually does support because when I talk to different people, I hear a lot of different things. 00:50:39,701 S1: And I feel like the question is more, how do we decide what the public supports? Because there are so many different opinions and different, you know, we've got a whole gamut of people in different age stages. So like everybody wants different things. So I don't think we'll be able to get to the point where we understand what or be able to do what everybody wants. 00:51:04,567 S2: I'm not I. 00:51:05,501 S1: Know you didn't. 00:51:06,000 S2: I'm not saying because there's no way that's life, right? There's no way to get to make everyone happy. I'm actually wanting to know what the majority of voters do want. 00:51:18,200 S3: Like 51%. 00:51:19,467 S2: Because. 00:51:19,801 S3: I think we have to go for higher because of the. 00:51:22,801 S2: No, I guess, but what I'm saying is, we know that the majority of the voters did not want this. 00:51:29,367 S4: Yeah, we know they don't what they don't want. 00:51:30,701 S2: So what I want to know is like, okay. Like, is there something that the majority. Maybe that's the better question. Is there something that the majority would get behind? Or are we so divided that in fact there is no at this moment? Maybe there isn't. Because like when I talk to people who say, well, I voted no because I wanted to build three new schools over time. Yeah, that's very different than I voted no, because this is breaking me on the taxes and I cannot afford to do this. But those are different. 00:52:14,868 S3: But I think that's almost the way of solving this in a way, is to say like to come at it through the budget side to say, how much more are you willing to invest in your or pay as part of your real estate tax bill. For all of the things that Hamilton want him in the district are trying to do. I could pay 500 more a year or 100 more a year or more a year, or 2000 more a year. I almost think, is it? Are we better off to understand the potential annual flow of revenue? Because I think that is more actually useful to the intersecting challenge of the town and the district budget, because that's what we're all trying to guess at, is like, yeah, well, we want to do these things with our budget in Hamilton. And one of them, but if we cut ours, is the town's going to go up like you're kind of playing chess in three dimensions, you know? And so I almost think it would be better to ask from zero to whatever, how much more would you be willing to pay in taxes and then have some sort of priority list of like the thing that is most important to me, I'm making this up is like, I want trash pickup twice a week, right? 00:53:27,467 S2: You want to get improvement in art? 00:53:29,200 S3: I want the water issues to be fixed. The water? Whatever. Whatever it is. 00:53:33,801 S4: These two issues are are different. 00:53:35,367 S3: Actually fully funding the pensions. I mean, there's so many things that the towns are behind on that. It's like, how much money are you willing to invest in collectively advancing this mission of Hamilton Wenham forward? 00:53:50,868 S4: I think that's very important. I think what Dana is saying is different. I think those two things are important, but it's very to me, from my perspective, it's very easy to be against something, but it's very hard to then propose a solution. 00:54:05,567 S1: That. 00:54:05,868 S4: Works on on the alternate side. So I agree, I think we definitely need to know how much people can handle financially, but we need to really know what's the direction, because clearly we thought we had a great direction that we were going in. 00:54:20,667 S2: And we were. 00:54:21,100 S4: Wrong. So yeah, so we'd love some. It's sort of like when Vinny and Eric present us with the budget and then none of us. 00:54:27,467 S2: Talk, right? Which we have to be like. 00:54:30,000 S3: But you wanted to cut it. 00:54:31,100 S4: You love it. Do you want. What do you want to do? 00:54:32,667 S2: Where do we have to be in two minutes? 00:54:34,167 S4: So they need some. They need direction from us. Like, are we going in the right direction or are we going completely in the wrong direction? Because what they don't want is to present the budget to us and have it fail. Obviously. Exactly. So I think it's the same thing with this. We don't want to present another project to the public and have it fail. So what I would welcome everyone to tell me, you know, like in our conversations, community conversations, emails, citizen comments, um, what do what are people thinking? Yeah. Um, and they might not have enough financial information. 00:55:05,467 S3: That's what I think the stumbling block is. Well, how much does that cost? Make that. 00:55:08,968 S4: Right. So that's a good point. They might not have enough information, but I think maybe in a dream bathroom world, if we keep saying that, what would they want. 00:55:17,000 S3: Right. 00:55:18,367 S2: Um, I am going to be attractive. 00:55:20,267 S3: We have to. 00:55:20,667 S2: Go. Um, thank you all. Thank you. 00:55:23,467 S4: Now I want to read.