00:00:00,030 S1: All righty. I will start the meeting then. Um, today is Thursday, September 18th, 2025. Time is 6:00 pm. I'd like to open the meeting for the one at the historic District Commission. Everybody here say who your. Your name is. 00:00:17,929 S2: Here, Mary Wood. 00:00:22,699 S3: Build our body energy systems group. 00:00:26,629 S1: Kirsten. Alexander. 00:00:33,369 S4: Please. Are you here? 00:00:34,570 S5: Yeah. Lisa, are you here? 00:00:43,000 S1: No. 00:00:43,329 S6: Said she left. She'll be back. 00:00:50,070 S1: Um, I'll just know when she comes in. Um. Oh. There's Lisa. Can you hear me? Yep. Yes. Thank you. 00:00:59,170 S7: All right. I'm here. Lisa. Becky. 00:01:04,969 S5: Okay. We do have one application. Uh, Matthew is back from, um, tener crop farm. Um, I was just going to share the application again. He did add some more supporting, um, uh, documents as well. So I'll share that and then go from there. 00:01:27,370 S5: Right. 00:01:33,599 S5: And, uh, you're here, right, Matt? 00:01:35,230 S8: Yes I am. 00:01:36,599 S5: Okay. Yep. You can, uh, just give another overview, if you don't mind. 00:01:40,629 S8: No. The what? 00:01:41,769 S5: Another overview, please, of the application. 00:01:47,269 S8: It's 93 Main Street. Trying to change it over to, um, look like a barn, putting in six by six over six windows with wood trim and, um. Board and batten. So it looks like the farm stamp. 00:02:22,930 S9: Hi, everyone. Sorry I'm late. Bonnie Anderson. 00:02:27,129 S5: Thanks, Bonnie. 00:02:28,569 S8: Those are the type windows. The six over six right there. 00:02:35,169 S8: In the building. Around the outside. 00:02:39,770 S8: Same colors. 00:02:44,830 S5: This is, uh, the other information. Um, Matthew sent me as well. I put this in the packet, but just showing you here again. 00:02:52,569 S8: What it looked like and what it will look like. 00:02:57,699 S8: The top is what it will look like. The bottom is for the what it looks like now. 00:03:07,000 S6: Did this building ever have Gordon Batten in the past? 00:03:11,400 S8: No, it had a little everything. 00:03:16,729 S6: Explained. 00:03:18,370 S8: It had, um. 00:03:22,530 S8: Some of the vinyl siding. It had those bay windows. I don't I've only owned it for maybe five years. I haven't done much to it. 00:03:35,199 S8: I don't know what it was built. I don't know when they built it or anything. 00:03:41,900 S8: That's probably. It was an addition, a lot of additions, it looks like. 00:03:51,370 S1: I asked Joe this, the type of windows that you'll be putting into the, the, the, the, the house. 00:04:02,370 S8: It's going to be a bond. Um, the building is going to have the six over six like it's in the same as the farmstead. 00:04:15,069 S1: Oh, those are wood clad. 00:04:19,300 S8: What's that? 00:04:21,399 S1: Are they wood clad? Are they, um, wrapped? 00:04:26,699 S8: I'm not really hearing you. 00:04:33,069 S6: It's the same material as the current barn, correct? 00:04:36,769 S8: Yes. 00:04:38,069 S6: What? 00:04:39,100 S2: What are the windows in the current farm? Are they would. 00:04:43,829 S8: The outside or the outside? 00:04:46,829 S2: No, I'm talking about the windows. 00:04:49,029 S4: Oh. 00:04:50,800 S8: Can you. 00:04:51,230 S4: See the. 00:04:51,470 S2: Windows or would. 00:04:53,029 S8: The the actual window. No that's fine. 00:04:59,629 S2: But they would be green. 00:05:01,269 S8: Yeah, just like that. 00:05:06,600 S2: Did those have mullions or are they. Snap ins. 00:05:10,470 S8: Have what. 00:05:11,870 S2: Are they would mullions. Are they the wood mullions. The crisscross. Are they snap ins. 00:05:16,970 S8: The wood. 00:05:19,370 S2: They're wood. 00:05:20,769 S8: Yep. 00:05:22,370 S1: Sorry. 00:05:38,269 S1: Would there be any signage on the building itself. No I didn't see anything. 00:05:45,800 S2: What will the building be used for? 00:05:48,230 S8: Storage. 00:05:58,069 S2: Is there going to be a front door? 00:06:01,170 S8: There is three. I think there's three. There's one. Two is. There's three to us. 00:06:13,329 S6: Any changes to the doors? 00:06:16,129 S4: No. 00:06:17,170 S8: No. 00:06:22,170 S2: Would they be like a farm door? 00:06:24,699 S8: They'll be painted green. 00:06:26,470 S2: Okay. And they'd be wood. 00:06:29,300 S8: Uh, I'm not really sure what they are right now, but they work. I wasn't planning on taking them down. I was planning on just painting them. 00:06:36,399 S2: Oh, they had the same doors. You paint them green? 00:06:38,800 S4: Yeah. 00:06:44,500 S1: Do you have any other suggestions for the windows? Um, using vinyl is not allowed within the historic district guidelines. 00:07:04,769 S8: Are you talking to me? 00:07:08,100 S4: Yes. 00:07:10,430 S8: Do I have what? 00:07:18,769 S6: Do you have the exact window materials? What it would be made out of? 00:07:26,129 S8: I have, I actually have the windows if you want to look at them. 00:07:28,829 S4: Sure. 00:07:32,129 S1: So as part of the. 00:07:34,170 S2: Where are they to look at? 00:07:36,230 S8: I'll have to bring them there. 00:07:38,629 S2: Okay. All I can say, as I said, last meeting about maybe ten years ago when Jim Howard was head of the committee, we turned down board and batten. I just want to say that because it'll be on the record for the siding. That doesn't mean we have to turn it down this time. 00:07:58,029 S1: But so, Mary. 00:08:00,069 S9: I have a clarifying question about that which is related to what I want to ask you. So when board and batten was turned down. Tell me, how is it that now Tender Crop has the same exact exterior that Matthew is proposing? I'm just curious. I wasn't here for that. 00:08:22,829 S2: I don't believe that. That it was only the building of the front. We did not get consulted on the board and batten in the back. 00:08:32,029 S4: Okay. 00:08:34,269 S9: Thank you for clarifying. Matthew, the number one question I have, I think everyone here has asked great questions. I just want to hear tell me. I was at 10:00 when I'm earlier with my daughter. She asked me, what is this building? Mommy, what is this? And I said it's for storage. The owner came in front of the historic commission. He told us about it a few weeks ago. And they're going to change it to look exactly like tender crap. I just want to make sure I'm clear in the simplest way. You're just proposing that you make this storage building that's closest to the parking lot. Match. Exactly. Tender. 00:09:14,129 S8: Yes. I'm trying to make it look like an old farm. Yet it's a farm. It's not a it's not an apartment complex. It's just a farm. 00:09:25,330 S6: Yeah. 00:09:25,570 S4: I mean. 00:09:26,830 S8: You got the old. You got the old building in the back. That was the old original farmhouse. It's the duplex. I painted it white like a farmhouse is always used to be white. I'm just trying to make the place the clean the place up. It was a mess. 00:09:41,929 S9: And so it all matches. 00:09:43,600 S8: Yeah. So when you pull in, it looks like a farm yet. 00:09:46,529 S9: Thank you. 00:09:48,870 S8: We took the telephone poles that were in the field. That looked terrible. We took the wall down in the front that had cement in it. I don't know why they did that, but we put the split rail fence to look more like a farm. 00:10:04,500 S9: Thank you for clarifying that. 00:10:11,730 S9: So I'll end my comments and invite others to join just by saying, I think that having the front building match actual tender crop that we all shop at, um, is the most logical nice thing. I'm. I can't imagine being not for it. Um, I appreciate the technical questions about specific materials, and that's where our, my fellow HDC members are, the experts that I'll lean on for that. 00:10:44,500 S1: So. 00:10:47,799 S1: With this. 00:10:53,000 S4: Guy. 00:10:55,870 S6: We can't hear you. 00:10:58,799 S1: Um, materials like vinyl are not allowed to be used. Um, again, none of us on the committee, maybe, except for Mary, were. Can you hear me at all? 00:11:09,470 S8: Yeah. No. Yep. 00:11:12,470 S2: Should we look at the windows that Matthew says he has? 00:11:17,799 S6: Yeah. 00:11:18,769 S1: Well, I just I'm asking him just. Can you explain the material choices to. Or can you? Joe, the information about. Is there a model number that Joe can pull up online? I asked him this while, um, um, prior to the when your application was being resubmitted. That'd. 00:11:49,570 S1: If they're indeed vine would have to ask for an alternative. Aluminum clad does work. He said that they were all wood. So now I'm a little confused as to what is really there. 00:12:03,600 S8: Well, the vinyl is on the outside. I'll go look. I mean, they can go look at them or I'll bring one to you. 00:12:11,029 S2: And the wood is on the inside. 00:12:13,799 S8: I'm sure it was wood. We painted it. 00:12:17,870 S2: It'll be green vinyl. 00:12:20,830 S8: We painted it. Yeah. 00:12:22,570 S2: Oh, you painted the vinyl? 00:12:24,330 S8: Yeah. We painted. It didn't come green. We painted everything. 00:12:33,669 S2: What if it chips, or is it a paint that will adhere to the vinyl? 00:12:37,029 S8: No, we had to paint that and stick to it. But if it chips, I'll just repaint it. I don't want it a mess. 00:12:46,600 S6: Uh, what material is are the windows currently? 00:12:56,169 S8: The outside. I know the outside is vinyl. The green that you see. 00:13:00,769 S2: That's vinyl. 00:13:01,929 S8: Yeah, the outside kind of. 00:13:04,529 S6: In the storage building? 00:13:06,899 S8: No. Right now. 00:13:08,000 S4: Yeah. 00:13:08,269 S8: Oh, um, I don't know. You have to bring up the old pictures. There's just a bunch of. They're pretty much rotten. I don't know what they. 00:13:19,100 S8: Probably would. You know, it's been a while, I don't know. 00:13:36,470 S6: Do we have a picture of them? 00:13:40,629 S8: If you can bring back the old building show. 00:13:47,129 S5: Um, I don't have one offhand. 00:13:49,669 S8: I can yeah, you would. When you were scrolling through it first. The first thing we saw was the old looking. Oh, yeah. There it is. Right there. 00:13:59,129 S4: Yep. Yep. 00:14:08,269 S2: Is, uh, are the outside of the windows? Are they the profile of a wood? In other words, they're vinyl, but they could have the profile of a wood mullion. 00:14:19,269 S8: Um. 00:14:20,330 S2: Or are they flat? 00:14:22,730 S8: I don't know what. I, like I said, I really didn't look, but it looks like. Good. 00:14:29,870 S2: Looks like what. 00:14:31,230 S8: It looks like with those old ones right there. 00:14:34,700 S2: Oh, yeah, but these are different windows. We're talking about this. The, um. six over six or are they eight over eight? 00:14:42,399 S8: No, the ones I'm talking about is six over six. 00:14:45,230 S2: Okay. 00:14:49,269 S2: I think we should look at the windows. What does everybody else think? 00:14:56,970 S6: What do you mean? 00:14:57,570 S1: Look, I just if they're vinyl, they will. 00:15:03,429 S1: I would just like to know what the model number is of the proposed windows. Because if they are involved in. 00:15:10,299 S4: Designing a drill. 00:15:12,470 S1: Then we'll just have to. You'll have to select a different model. That is you know again with the configuration. 00:15:18,470 S8: Okay I'll get the model number and send it to Joe. 00:15:27,669 S4: Thank you. All right. 00:15:36,269 S5: Any other questions from the commission for, uh, Matthew? 00:15:50,000 S5: Uh, okay. Kelly, just so I'm understanding, do you want Matthew to come back again, or do you want to vote on this for, you know, as amended? Um, as long as it's a certain material window, I'm just. I want to make sure I'm understanding the commission. 00:16:07,100 S1: Um, so I would like to make a motion to accept the application for the barn as design. And, um, in the drawings with the caveat is that we still need to know what the type of windows will be going into the building. 00:16:29,169 S8: I'll get you the A brand and everything. The builder has them. 00:16:35,200 S5: Is there a second on that motion? 00:16:41,370 S6: I'm just clarifying. Did you see the motion as written? We just need to know what it is. But do we need to approve what it is? 00:16:53,169 S2: I think we have to save the windows. 00:16:57,870 S6: So they're not approved. I'm just getting clarification. 00:17:02,429 S1: The windows are not approved. 00:17:14,170 S6: So what are we approving then? 00:17:17,500 S1: So the building. So I make a motion to approve the conversion of the house to the barn, as designed by the architectural drawings, with the exception of the windows. We need further clarification about what the windows would be. 00:17:38,200 S2: Are the windows where we can see them? I mean, could we go look tomorrow? 00:17:43,000 S8: No, they're here in Newburyport. 00:17:45,700 S4: Oh. 00:17:46,769 S8: With the builder. Um, I will get all the information from him and send it to Joe. Or I'll have the builder send it to Joe tomorrow. 00:17:58,230 S4: Okay. 00:18:04,099 S1: Is there a second? 00:18:05,269 S5: Yeah, I need a second. 00:18:07,900 S6: Who was the second? I second. Lisa Bennett. Can you. 00:18:12,400 S4: Hear me? 00:18:13,099 S5: Yep. Thank you. Lisa. Second. 00:18:14,869 S4: Second. 00:18:16,099 S5: Uh. Further discussion. 00:18:19,769 S5: Uh. Roll call. Vote. 00:18:24,029 S1: Uh, Kelly Schmidt. 00:18:26,970 S6: Hi, Lisa. 00:18:29,900 S9: Hi, Bonnie. Anderson. 00:18:32,099 S6: Hi, Kirsten. Alexander. 00:18:35,170 S2: Hi, Mary. Would. Provided we get to see the windows. 00:18:39,769 S4: Yes. 00:18:41,630 S8: Okay. 00:18:42,769 S4: Alrighty. 00:18:43,569 S5: Yes. Thank you. Matthew, if you want to send those to me as soon as you can. We'll go from there. Thanks for joining us again. 00:18:49,930 S4: Thank you. 00:18:50,869 S5: All right. Have a good night. 00:18:51,799 S4: Bye bye. 00:18:52,529 S5: Bye bye. 00:18:57,670 S5: Okay. Um, Kelly, just for the sake of time, I do have, um. Mike. I'm sorry. Uh, bill. Body here from Energy Systems group. If you're okay with, um, uh, allowing him to present to the commission. 00:19:16,369 S5: This is regarding the potential solar canopy project behind town hall. Um, and ESG, as we call them, have been, uh, spearheading the, uh, HVAC geothermal project over a town hall that's been ongoing. Um, we're currently going into the second phase. Um, and should be done in early November. Um, so they've been we've been working with them for over the better part of a year now, and this is a potential project has not been brought before the Select board yet. But, um, you know, we wanted to just keep everyone in the loop because it falls within the historic district. 00:19:55,970 S3: Thank you. Joe. Uh, good evening everyone. Thanks for having me. Um, I sent a share request through. I don't know if anybody can approve it. And we put a couple slides together to talk about the project and show a couple of illustrations. 00:20:08,170 S5: I think I did, Bill, I think you should be good. 00:20:10,569 S3: So, see, what am I sharing? What are you seeing? Okay, let me see. Do you see anything? 00:20:20,069 S5: No, not yet, but I can actually, um. I can share it for you. I have your power. It's the one from earlier today. 00:20:24,970 S4: Yes. 00:20:25,730 S5: Okay, let me share. Just let me know when you want me to go through this. 00:20:29,670 S3: Okay. Actually, I think I needed to hit share again after I sent the request. So if you approved it. Let's see. Uh, so I can share that now. Okay. 00:20:41,230 S5: Yes, I can see it. 00:20:45,000 S3: Okay. So, um, as, uh, Joe mentioned, uh, we are working on the, uh, electrification and decarbonisation of the town hall. And, um, what? I want to talk to you a little bit about that project, the, uh, the timeline that we've been working under, uh, what the proposed canopy project looks like. And then and then going forward, some of the steps we take. Uh, if you if you approve. So, uh, what is going to have one of the first historic town halls that is going to be fully electrified and decarbonised? That's where we convert the heating and cooling systems to be electric through heat pump technology. In this particular case, we're using geothermal, um, variable refrigerant flow heat pump system with energy recovery ventilation. So it's also addressing some indoor air quality over there. And um, and so you won't be burning any gas, oil or propane on site anymore. So it's decarbonised from that perspective. But you're still buying power from the grid. And um, we know that the grid is still using a number of sources from fossil fuels. So to fully net zero, the building would you'd install some behind the meter generation, typically solar. Um, we're looking at Canopy Solar. Um, and we'll talk a little bit about why we chose canopy over other options. Uh, back in September, about a year ago, we, we were awarded a energy performance contract to do this work, um, through procurement, um, that the town did. And in November, the board approved the project. Um, it then went to, um, uh, to sign the contract. By the end of the year, they were able to leverage some Arpa funding that was going to run out. We were able to get a half $1 million Green Community grant for the project, which was awarded in March, and then we went to town meeting and began construction in May and will be finished up in about another month or so. 00:22:42,069 S3: This canopy solar is about 90 kW DC. It would achieve net zero. In other words, the the array over the year of its production would be enough to wholly make the power that the town hall would need to support, you know, lighting, heating, cooling from the geothermal system and such. Um, it we're leveraging the new smart program, the three zero program in Massachusetts that's promoted more municipal and small scale canopy work. Um, and the investment tax credit, um, from the federal government. But time is of the essence there because in about a year that that sunsets and there will be no more solar incentives, um, worth about $250,000 on this project. Um, this covers about 12 car spaces behind Town Hall and the surrounding, um, drive into those. It's about 75 by 60ft. Um, it is behind Town hall. There's a possibility to add some EV charging. Um, to support more, you know, further decarbonization and, um, uh, goals that, that, that the town has. So the benefits to the town would be that it does that it does achieve net zero. We actually when we got the Green Communities grant, we said it would be best efforts to also net zero the property. It's a competitive grant and that helped us to achieve that $500,000 for the geothermal project. Um, it does support Wyndham's master plan, right? You have a goal to to add more solar in the community and more renewables. Um, so it does support that it supports the state's goal to net zero by 2050. And projects have to keep coming online to kind of get to that goal, even though it's a little far off. It also makes economic sense because it becomes a long term hedge against your power prices. You're going to own this and and therefore you don't have to go buy power now in the open market, which can fluctuate quite a bit and will likely only go up. 00:24:34,369 S3: This is what's called the Helios scope. This shows the footprint of the um, of of the array. It's this little trigger happy here. Hang on a second. Um, so from orientation, this is the town hall. This is the main road up here across the top left corner. Um, this is the museum here. Uh, and this is the back. This is the middle parking lot. The back parking lot. Um, unfortunately, has a lot of trees which create shading and make the solar inefficient. The slope here of the grassy area was to to too much of a slope. A quick, quick hint for a ground mount. And we wanted to stay away from anything up front on the fields, uh, or on the roof of Town Hall itself. 00:25:18,400 S3: Um, you will see that at times it could be visible from the road, depending on on the angle, but it is blocked by town hall. 00:25:28,829 S3: Now this is the best picture that we had available. This yours would be about half the size because this is this is about twice as big. Um, but this is, this is what the structures look like. It would be sloping, um, away from town hall. Down. Um, and we anticipate about three pylons where you could add EV charging. Um, but this is this is roughly what a canopy solar looks like. 00:26:02,400 S3: So our timeline for this project is to seek approvals to the various boards and commissions like yourself. Um, in the next three months, um, there's, um, some rules around that investment tax credit. So we actually have to physically get started by July and likely has to go to town meeting. But there's other applications for the smart program for the inn to secure a bid and a incentive, which we're anticipating about $330,000 incentives over the life of the project, 20 years. Um, there's an interconnection application which can take some time with the utility to line up to connect these two to the to the system. It's about a six month construction period. Um, and we know we're looking to probably go live in in the fall of, of, of next year. So, you know, within a year, this, this could be a reality. 00:27:02,069 S3: What questions can I answer for you all? 00:27:18,799 S1: The land That that land. Just. 00:27:27,529 S9: Kelly, we're having a hard time hearing you. 00:27:32,369 S9: Um, I know you'll get back into a good zone. Let me just ask a quick question. Uh, thank you, Bill, for a great presentation. Uh, I love this. And I love how much it's aligned to our master plan. Thank you for weaving that into your presentation. Um, I'm simply not aware of, you know, what the the market costs are. Um, how would you say, like, is your is your offering, like, middle of the market? Um, no, I'm not asking quality. I'm just asking, of course, to, you know, be able to defend this, um, investment. 00:28:14,269 S4: Is it what? 00:28:15,930 S9: The market. Lower the market. Thank you. 00:28:18,670 S3: Um, you know, we I would say that that we, we were chosen on a competitive basis, um, through solicitation, uh, it's very transparent in terms of how we will share with, like, finance Committee and others the the financials. 00:28:34,170 S9: Thank you. I did not know that. Thank you. 00:28:36,269 S4: Yes. 00:28:39,029 S6: Uh, question on the, um, is everything underneath parking or would there potentially be room for, like, a picnic table? 00:28:49,529 S3: Um, where there is a island? Um, that is that that's that is next to the parking lot and, um, and the and the access to the rear parking and kind of like in the museums on the right. Um, I believe that that that will overhang that and that there could be a part, a picnic table put there. Um, Joe, you know what I'm talking about. 00:29:14,400 S5: Yes, yes I do. Yep. That should be okay, I would think. 00:29:18,670 S4: Yeah. 00:29:23,670 S6: Okay, so it is a very sunny area. Um, so I think this, this is exactly what we've the kind of project we've been anticipating on, on this committee for the last few years knowing that solar was going to come. And how do we balance out historic preservation and the very real needs, um, in terms of, you know, saving the planet, basically, and also lowering our, our costs. And, um, having worked at Town Hall, I know that it's very, very hot and sunny in that spot. And, and, you know, making things hotter because there's, there's tarmac there. So while it is unusual, um, to add something that is visible from, um, the road in particular. Um. 00:30:20,500 S6: I'm in support of the project. I think it's it's a really important thing for the, the town. And I also think that we need to be looking at this as a model for other people to use at their homes, um, potentially in the historic district. So it's really important to do it right. Make sure it's really attractive, whatever it is, if, if we move forward with it. So that's sort of where my thought is at this point. 00:30:47,529 S4: Yeah. Do you all hear me now? 00:30:50,529 S9: Yes. 00:30:51,700 S4: Can you. 00:30:52,500 S1: Okay. Sorry about this. I apologize, it was in good timing when, um, I got into driving. Um, my my concern is, is that we, you know, our charge as the commission is to preserve the historic nature of the town of Wenham. Um, this building was saved. The town hall was saved to keep. They originally wanted to knock it down. It was saved through the prior chair many years ago. Um, right next door we have the one in museum with one of the oldest buildings in New England. Um, and we, unfortunately, we also have this very unsightly, um, fire department brick, um, next door. I don't know how that got passed, but it did. I understand the need for alternative energy. I get it. Um, and I know this supports the town plan, but I don't know one. How much energy? I mean, is, is this is the canopy and the panels that go. They're going to make it fully net zero. Um, so it's not relying on any energy And yeah, was one of my questions, but I really don't. I think we really need to think this through. I mean, we, I don't I have no idea what the perspective looks like. Um, I don't have no idea how big tall these things are. I don't know if they can be placed better. You know, I just don't want to assume this placement without really having a view of this. Just to put a blank. You know, like when I'm in construction and when we do, um, designs for future projects, we'll create a model as built and then we're overlaid the designs. So I really need to see. And I think we all need to see what these are actually going to look at look like. Um, because the last thing I want to do is install something that supports all our missions, but it's god awful to look at, and I think there can be a nice blending of the two. The technology embracing the solar which serves the needs of the building, and our overall mission with the master plan, but also has some, um, adherence to the historic preservation specifically of that area. 00:33:33,000 S3: Yeah, that makes sense. Um. 00:33:36,299 S1: So can you and your team. I don't want to greenlight it with even. I mean, we need to do a site walk. I need to see, you know, specs, all that stuff. Um, I just I don't want it to be. It's going to be a change. And I don't want it. I want it done correctly. 00:33:57,269 S3: Yeah. Um, so great questions and a couple things. One is, um, walk on the sidewalk and, uh, you know, we can talk about some of the other options that we looked at that we actually think would be worse from a site standpoint. Um, can it be? I mean, can it be stolen? Um, also, I hear questions about shading and weather related concerns for parking and, and. 00:34:23,170 S4: Just. 00:34:24,070 S3: Uh, activity. And so sometimes people have these even without solar on them. So, you know, there's, there's this sort of acceptance. 00:34:31,570 S1: Oh, I get it. I mean, I we build them for universities and Endicott College and everybody like that. I get it, but you gotta understand, we this is our charge. Like, if you were talking to the planning department or somebody else, you might get a totally different feedback. But our charge is to preserve the the nature of this. I mean, you just heard us talk about, you know, 20 years ago when Endicott wanted a board and batten. Like, that's really not in our guidelines to say, no, you can't do it. But they did it back then. So this is solar. This is, you know, this is steel. This is this is, you know, things that weren't built. You know, this is all new materials coming in to a very historic, charming, charming area in Town Hall. And then the museum next door are about as historic as we can get with the church across the street. So I want to make sure that if this is going to go forward, that we're preserving it, we're building it, so it's going to blend in as best as possible. Maybe there has to be some landscaping in between. Maybe there has to be. You know, I don't know. I you know, I've never worked with anybody that's done solar in this capacity yet, but I just can't say, let's greenlight solar. I'm going to have a 60 foot, you know, canopy 30ft deep. And we didn't really think through it. 00:35:48,570 S3: No, you're right. And one of the things we are going to work on is, um, is a rendering and actual rendering of the specific solar project versus a simulated picture. Um, and, um, get you some, some additional facts around the height and the, um, number of stanchions. Engines, um, that are part of that. So I don't know if there's shrubbery that could be put high enough. Uh, kind of in the area we actually where we just, uh, did the geothermal wells and tied those in, you know, as part of that project, we were able to get rid of that big ugly compressor that was pretty good size on that down that side of the building. So now all the all the all the air conditioning is in the ground or in the building in the basement. Um, and so that's good. Um, and even if you did put shrubbery, obviously you can look down the access road, um, to the museum and to the back of the, you know, town hall, and you can't cover that. So there would be a little bit of view, but, um, um, you know, maybe there's ways to, to mitigate that. But, um, so any other questions or feedback, um, that, that we could take into consideration here. 00:37:00,130 S4: Um. 00:37:01,530 S10: So could you show the picture again right where the blue square was. 00:37:07,000 S5: I think Bill has control of the presentation. 00:37:10,170 S4: That last picture. 00:37:11,469 S3: You got it. You see that? 00:37:15,699 S3: Oh. 00:37:16,829 S2: It's awful. 00:37:19,030 S3: I'm sorry. 00:37:21,769 S3: Can you see it? Okay. Yeah. So this. 00:37:25,869 S4: Is just. 00:37:26,170 S2: Going to look nice at all. 00:37:29,130 S4: Mhm. 00:37:33,699 S10: Um, it looks like it's taking up all the parking. 00:37:37,500 S3: Correct. This is, this was the parking. It covers the parking and then the drive over around it. And there was the island around here. That's where the, there's an island that you could put the picnic table there. 00:37:49,170 S10: Could it go, like on top of the building in the back? 00:37:54,099 S5: Well, it's not going to take parking away. Correct, bill? It's just going. 00:37:57,130 S3: No, it's not taking park. 00:37:58,230 S4: In a way. 00:37:58,769 S6: It's going to provide shaded parking, which is. 00:38:01,500 S10: Oh, so people are going to park underneath that. 00:38:03,969 S4: Yeah. Yeah. 00:38:05,699 S1: Yeah. It's a canopy. 00:38:07,800 S4: Yeah. 00:38:08,030 S10: Okay. I just can't say enough that it's such an eyesore. And we'll make it look industrial and will ruin that quaintness of this particular spot. It's just my personal opinion. 00:38:23,300 S9: I agree with Lisa, but I also like, you know, we got away the cost and the benefit this is already on at the high school and middle school is not in the Hamilton Historic District, if I'm correct. But correct me if I'm wrong. But still. 00:38:40,300 S2: They're not very strict in Hamilton. 00:38:42,829 S9: Well, nonetheless, thank you for that. But I don't know if it's in or out of the district, but it's nonetheless on Bay road and it's very visible and it's not cute, but it's very practical. And I, I, I put practicality and money saving and aligning with the master plan. Over Q or. 00:39:10,369 S4: Over? 00:39:11,329 S9: Yeah, I mean, that's just my opinion. I at least I respect what you're saying. You're not wrong. It's not cute, but it's necessary if we're going to save, if we're going to pay zero electric bill ever again in town hall. 00:39:26,469 S1: Where you're paying for the installation of this thing. I have no idea what the costs are. I don't know if it was. It was never. It was on the town warrant before. But what I was saying, really, there has to be. I mean, we can't make a yes or no decision right now. This is going to be a couple conversations moving forward. Um, you know, Bill, I'd like to see renderings. I'd like to see different angles of, you know, how this would look like if you're standing from the museum, per se, or you're standing on the side of the, um, standing in the side of the historic building, you're, you know, driving down one a, I would I'd like to see all those perspectives. I'd like to understand what the materials would be used for the podium itself and what alternatives are. Considering that we are in a historic district historic district. I would also like to see how, if there's any sort of design plans that we could integrate more, um, either a green screen in front of it or, and or break up the. 00:40:24,769 S4: Sorry. 00:40:25,369 S1: Break up the, the the canopy. So 60ft maybe you have some plantings in between so it looks more integrated into the landscape. Um, so those those are my thoughts. Um, and then it also, I mean, we don't have any we don't have any say over the, over the economic impact or the cost of these things, but it would just be nice to know for the, for the committee. Or I could probably follow up with Joe and get that information. 00:40:56,000 S2: Maybe also if we allow this. What's going to happen to the rest? Everybody's going to say, you did this and you let the church do that, and suddenly the whole historic district is going to be solar panels. 00:41:10,699 S1: Well, we don't have any. Right? Right. But this is the issue, Mary, we don't have. When this first came forward and Joe reached out, we don't have any guidelines right now around solar. Right. 00:41:22,500 S6: And that's why we're doing. 00:41:24,000 S4: You. 00:41:24,300 S1: Have guidelines. 00:41:26,769 S4: What materials. 00:41:29,099 S1: Can be. 00:41:29,869 S4: Used. 00:41:31,369 S1: And so what I'm saying is we're not saying yes or no. Right now what we are saying, if we are going to move forward with this, it's got to be done in a way that adheres more with what astrology in keeping with in the master plan. So, you know, another thing to add to your list is where in other towns can you give an examples of what they've done? 00:42:04,730 S6: I also think we need to bring in emergency services. The director of Butters, whose garage would be right next to this, and the one a museum into the discussion. 00:42:16,199 S2: That's a good point. 00:42:17,869 S4: Yeah. 00:42:20,199 S6: But I think particularly because we are we've dug up, like, the whole sideline of Town Hall, there is an opportunity to do some pretty high plantings there, which would make it much less visible. And really, um, you know, until you came into the parking lot. 00:42:38,670 S2: It's macadam. You can't really plant in macadam. 00:42:41,800 S6: No, no, there's a lot of grass in there. And right now it's all been dug up for the geothermal. 00:42:49,570 S2: Oh. 00:42:52,099 S6: Yeah. 00:42:52,869 S1: I mean, budget for this. And there's already a. 00:42:55,230 S4: Parking. 00:42:55,570 S2: Lot that's been dug up? 00:42:57,000 S6: No. The next to town hall. 00:42:59,199 S4: The right side. 00:43:00,530 S2: That's not where this is going, right? 00:43:02,400 S6: No, no, but the plantings would block the view from one A of the. 00:43:06,800 S2: Oh well I see. 00:43:07,730 S6: Oh right then back of the building. So on that side next to the one a museum, it would be visible from one A unless there were additional planting stuff. 00:43:16,900 S5: Bill, do you have an estimated price point on this they wanted to share? Are you still looking into it? 00:43:22,969 S3: I think this is this like all solar deals, they're they're typically about 20 years to sort of pay pay for themselves. And that's about $800,000. 00:43:32,730 S6: How much? 00:43:33,699 S3: 800,000. 00:43:35,400 S6: And what do we pay currently for our, um. 00:43:39,769 S4: Utilities for year? 00:43:44,400 S5: I'd. I'd have to get that. 00:43:45,969 S4: Um. 00:43:46,969 S5: Yeah. I don't know that I don't have that offhand, but. 00:43:50,369 S4: Yeah. 00:43:50,800 S6: I think those kinds of things were very persuasive with the. 00:43:54,429 S9: Church. 00:43:55,030 S6: Project across the street. And I'm appreciative that you didn't come saying, let's put it on the roof of town hall, because that's gonna be a much harder. 00:44:04,829 S4: Good evening. 00:44:06,329 S6: I mean, in 20 years, the technology may have changed so much that you wouldn't need to even do something like this anymore. Um. 00:44:15,000 S4: Yeah. 00:44:15,630 S6: These are not necessarily permanent structures that will be there forever and and protected. And we could write permits and permissions in a way that, that that's clear too. 00:44:31,269 S3: So the, um, you're currently paying about $25,000 a year in energy costs. Um. 00:44:37,030 S1: The heat, that whole building, that seems low. 00:44:39,500 S4: Yeah. 00:44:42,670 S3: Um, that's and, uh, that's what I see in the model. Um, and of that dollar amount, the, the, the federal incentive will be about 250,000. And then the state level incentive will be about 330,000. And then the savings from there. 00:44:59,070 S9: 250 plus 330. Is that correct? 00:45:02,030 S3: Yeah. Then plus savings each year because you technically won't have an electric bill. 00:45:06,369 S9: So $580,000. I'm sorry. Just please be clear with me. Um, you're saying $580,000 would be given to Wenham to pay for the $800,000 cost? 00:45:21,699 S3: Correct. 00:45:22,769 S9: Okay. So then the cost to Wenham is 300. 00:45:28,570 S4: Yeah. 00:45:29,599 S9: Okay. So. Yeah. 270. 00:45:32,969 S3: Yeah. And you pay for that with the savings each year. Um, by not not paying the electric bills. 00:45:38,030 S9: In over eight years, you're saying. 00:45:40,900 S3: Well, if there's, depending on how it gets funded, like, finally, if it gets financed, there's, you know, like 5% finance tax exempt, this is about 5% right now. So that that would cash flow in, um, to some of those costs. So so net net, it pays for itself and then you own it. 00:46:02,469 S9: Go ahead. 00:46:02,869 S4: Sorry. 00:46:03,530 S3: No. Then you own it. So after that, it's it's it's, um, something that you own. Um. 00:46:10,329 S1: I don't know if we want to own it, though. Like, has this begun to anybody else yet? Joe. Any other commissions? Did you go to planning or not? 00:46:19,670 S5: This particular project, uh, the Select board has, um, sort of given their blessing for the solar panel project at Iron Rail, though, although it's not in the historic district. That would be a leasing project, though. Uh, but no, because this is squarely in the historic district. The town administrator wanted the HCC to be informed. Uh, first. 00:46:40,400 S9: I just have one follow up question. So, uh. Okay. So $270,000 is what we would be asking when, um, homeowners to Approve or pay, or we would approve or pay or whatever it goes. 00:46:53,730 S3: It would be out of existing operating budget. So technically. 00:46:56,670 S4: We. 00:46:56,900 S9: Said we're not going to vote on it tonight. Of course. But I just want to understand. Um, and this is for everybody. Like 5%. I'm not up on like, rates this second, but that sounds pretty good. Um, so I don't want to feel happy about it. I want to look into that. And I would just ask anybody here who is more up on interest rates of the market today and or like over the last 45 days. Um, like, like reality check us either now or later because that's a that's another part of it. And uh, and then lastly, I'll just state that, uh, if it's over eight years and it's 270,000 plus whatever the interest would be, um, I'm just not a mathematician that fast. But I don't know that the math still maps on this. So that's just my. I really am so passionate about this, but, um, if it doesn't add up, like, that's, that's my number one concern for our. 00:48:02,429 S3: Yeah. And we work with Jeff Seward and the finance Committee on that. So we Jeff Seward and the Finance committee. And they'll share that as, as seems appropriate with everyone who has to vote on it. Um, and we're not asking people to pay for it because you're going to pay $25,000 plus for your energy anyway. So we're just saying you need to buy your own solar instead of paying Eversource. 00:48:27,969 S9: I bought my own solar like five years ago. I'm so on board with you. I'm just I'm just trying to protect this group and and all of our community members, but really and myself from, like, all the questions that are going to be asked. So thank you. 00:48:43,369 S6: So I would actually suggest for expediency is to sort of get all the ducks in a row, all the questions answered, and have a joint public hearing with multiple committees to try to get any community input we need and move to votes. If if there's a it seems like a pretty tight deadline to reach any, um, federal and state grants. Um, but, you know, certainly I think we can be really good feedback on placement and how to make it as attractive as possible and bring in one museum and about. And then, um, but if there's a lot of committees involved, then a joint meeting, Joe, you'd be more on that, but might might make might just be more efficient. Time wise. 00:49:34,000 S2: I think it would be helpful to do a site visit, as somebody already suggested. 00:49:41,630 S9: I don't need a site visit, and I. I appreciate the recommendation from Kirsten. We should eventually have a joint meeting. But leaving this meeting, I don't yet have enough information to ask other committees to come in and have yet more conversations about stuff like, I just I want to just have information on paper before that happens. And then I agree, Kirsten, we should do that. And then Mary, I think after that. Sure, we could do that. I personally don't need it. I'm there so much, but I welcome anyone. I don't think it's a bad idea. 00:50:18,199 S6: Um, the other group to to bring in early on would be fire and police because they, they're in there a lot. 00:50:29,130 S6: If there's any change to like where posts are, you know, how you get in and out of that space because it's pretty tight in the back especially. 00:50:44,000 S2: It can't be put further back. You said there would be interference from trees. 00:50:48,900 S4: There's a slope. 00:50:50,030 S6: There's a slope that goes up to where the historic fire truck is. And then there's that extra lot up on the top, which currently has a lot of trees, although I think we own those trees probably. So. 00:51:09,730 S1: Yeah, I guess also, I mean, within the site selection, I mean, looking at the site, if there was any other suggested locations. I don't. I haven't been back that way. 00:51:19,670 S2: It'd be nice to do a site visit to see. 00:51:22,699 S6: That's definitely the most hidden area in the town hall parking areas. Everything else would be much more visible from the street. 00:51:33,170 S9: Pearson, when you say the most hidden area you're talking about, like up on the Hill by Ian on number one. 00:51:38,099 S6: No, no. This this particular location as mapped out, is going to be the least visible from one day, because the building is blocking the view and the fewest trees blocking it. Yeah, like it's logical. 00:51:56,829 S3: We're trying to balance building the right size and minimizing, you know, um, the, the, the, the, the area to do that and get that zero as well as create economies of scale just for the project. Right. So you got once you're in. Yeah. But still out. So we're just trying to maximize all that. And it's a very tight space all the way around. So so that's that's the natural spot that we came to. 00:52:21,599 S6: So Bill if it were bigger and covered more of the the parking lot, wouldn't we then be generating revenue for the town. 00:52:33,400 S3: Um, yes. Um, but it may not be worth it. I mean, you, you you get like, a wholesale market of energy only. Um, and, and then, of course, you're just going to create a bigger scene to look at. Um, so I'm, I'm not I'm not sure if that fits the goal. Um, it seems to be starting to move away from the goal, but, um, but but you're right. Um, and and to make it smaller doesn't really save a lot of money. And then you compromise the net zero. 00:53:14,329 S1: Okay. Is there? So, Bill, are you clear with what we need to recap? 00:53:21,800 S3: Yeah. So I'll review with Joe about how we might address some of the other committee needs. Um, uh, we'll talk with Jeff Salad about the financials and how he wants to present those. Um, we'll look at other town examples. Um, but I will say, you know, this is you're kind of leading in the state in a lot of areas, with historic town halls being, you know, as your buildings. Um, so. Um, and then, um, I will do some we'll get some renderings done with some multiple viewpoints. Uh, from from the road, from the museum. Um, anything else that you think I missed? 00:54:04,369 S1: And then just include what, the canopy. Like the the structure of the canopy, what the materials would be. And if there's any more natural alternatives, there probably isn't. But I just wanted to ask. 00:54:17,000 S4: Yeah. 00:54:20,030 S1: And then, um. 00:54:24,469 S1: Any landscape considerations? 00:54:27,099 S4: Yep. 00:54:29,769 S1: Um, I don't know. Do you normally get that question asked? Do you work with somebody to help with that? And I don't you do mostly commercial projects. 00:54:41,030 S4: Yes. 00:54:41,699 S3: Yeah. We don't do residential. Um, we we? Yeah. That's not a reasonable question. Um, we can talk about some landscaping. I think the natural thing is to wear this area that has already been disturbed. That's along the edge of the the the lawn and the parking, the whole parking lot. Um, anything under the canopy wouldn't work. Plus, it's just you're really. Except for that little bit of island where we've been asked to maybe put a picnic table. It's all parking lot now anyway, so you wouldn't introduce shrubbery in the parking lot because it would interfere with the parking of vehicles and driving to them. Um, but, um, and it wouldn't really block that block of view. So, um, but something like an Apple ID, is that, like, you know, those tall, thin on properties that can grow? 00:55:31,000 S4: Yeah. 00:55:31,099 S1: I don't yeah, I can envision anything but anything. Like if you have a landscape designer on your plan or if you outsource that to somebody? Just their thoughts of what it would look like and incorporate that in the renderings I think would be really helpful for us. 00:55:44,030 S4: Okay. 00:55:44,530 S1: I just the, the, the I just don't want to leave anything to be guessing. So over build it in a rendering. 00:55:58,199 S4: Okay. 00:55:58,929 S1: Okay. 00:55:59,599 S4: All righty. 00:56:00,170 S3: So but. 00:56:01,800 S4: I think I'm. 00:56:02,599 S3: Hearing in general, I mean, you look to try to find a way to make it work. Right. So we're not we're not really heading down a path that this is something that you don't really want at all. 00:56:15,800 S1: I don't I don't I don't think we're one way or the other right now. I just don't think we have enough information. I mean, you know, I think we're kind of split right now, to tell you the truth. 00:56:25,929 S4: Yeah. 00:56:28,130 S1: And we just. We just don't have enough information. Um, and I didn't. I'm the chair, and I didn't know how this came in, like, typically. another committee would have approved or given good input to go ahead and and proceed with this, and we would give opine on the actual design or materials use or placement. Right? 00:56:53,900 S4: Okay. 00:56:54,869 S1: But nobody it seems like nobody has. So if you're our first stop, we just we need all the supporting data now. And we need, once we have all those supporting data and renderings and things that we normally opine on, then we need to bring in some other groups for us to have that discussion. The full, the full, the fuller discussion. 00:57:15,199 S3: Yeah. And we had planned to do that. I think Joe and Steve thought it'd be good to touch base with this group first. Um, the board is aware when we we submitted for the Geo. Uh, because they're aware of the grant that we submitted. It did include, you know, solar. Um, so they're aware of it. They haven't seen, obviously, the details yet, so. 00:57:39,170 S3: So appreciate the time. Um, we'll, um, coordinate when we can start feeding the, uh, this group. Uh, I think you meet one monthly, but we can also send things around as we get them. And, um, I'll work with Joe, uh, on a, you know, path forward to get the approvals, um, needed. 00:57:58,429 S6: And I would also recommend talking first, which had an excellent presentation to us with a cutting edge solar project last year, I think. 00:58:08,730 S3: Who was that? 00:58:09,929 S6: The first church right across. 00:58:11,300 S4: The. 00:58:11,769 S3: First church. Okay. 00:58:12,869 S6: And there may be people who worked on that project who could could support you. 00:58:19,329 S3: Okay. 00:58:20,670 S9: Um, I just have one last comment. Uh, first is a question to Bill. Do you do you feel like you are walking away from this meeting knowing what you need to do next? Other than, like, find out from Joe? And I ask that because I'm not really clear what it is we're asking you to do next, but I know what it is I need to see. Next time we meet. I just want to make sure those things align. 00:58:43,829 S3: Yeah. So I went through the list and, um, so you've been asked to see other town examples. Um, uh, the renderings, uh, from multiple viewpoints with possibly some landscaping consideration. What are the exact materials that are going to be used in the, um, in the structure? Um, uh, Jeff Seward will will review the financials and share those as appropriate. Um, and then, um, there are groups. Um, I'll probably work through Joe, whether, you know, the timing of when we talk to fire police, fire finance committee, you know, board. Um, and if we went out of order, you know, I was kind of going by town guidance. I think they just wanted to get a gut check here. So more about the things that you normally would opine on. I think we got into deeper questions around the overall project, which is fine, but, um. Uh, is there something else that. Uh, and then there was a recommendation to talk to First Church. Um, and I don't know if there's a contact there. If I could just call over there. 00:59:44,000 S5: Yeah, I can connect you with them. Bill. 00:59:45,829 S3: Okay. 00:59:48,130 S9: Thank you. Bill, that was excellent. That was a great punch list. Thank you. 00:59:51,730 S3: All right. 00:59:52,130 S4: Good, good. 00:59:58,469 S4: All right. 00:59:59,170 S1: So good. So, um, just feed the information to Joe, and then Joe puts a nice package together, and then. 01:00:08,969 S1: We send our feedback to. 01:00:10,199 S4: But I. 01:00:11,269 S1: You know, please assume that we'll talk again within a month. A month usually we meet on the third Thursday of the month. 01:00:18,869 S3: Third Thursday. Okay. Well, Kelly and Keith, thank you very much. 01:00:23,829 S5: Thanks, Bill. 01:00:25,000 S4: All right. 01:00:25,829 S3: Good evening. 01:00:26,429 S5: Thank you. Bye. 01:00:32,730 S5: All right. Um, yep. So the last thing we just had on the agenda was just, uh. If folks had, I didn't actually get any feedback from the the guidelines that I amended from the last discussion. I know Mike was going to send me some. He hasn't gotten around to it yet, but did folks get a chance to to look at the guidelines? Once it's approved, I can go ahead and, you know, look for, um, consultants. And we could, you know, I could bring them over to the next meeting as well. I just want to make sure I captured everyone's request, uh, correctly before I, you know, go out and pursue the procurement side of things with the the guideline project. The money, like I said last time, is already set aside. I confirm with Jeff, do we have the $50,000 through the capital budget? Um, all ready to go. But I just wanted to make sure the guidelines look okay. I'm sorry. The scope of work looks okay for the guideline project. 01:01:24,170 S6: It wouldn't help me to go through it just as a group, and I'm going to go turn on my overhead light because it's getting dark out. 01:01:33,599 S4: Yeah. 01:01:41,869 S5: I put it in the package. Yes, sir. 01:02:06,630 S9: The one my muted. 01:02:09,630 S4: Nope. 01:02:10,369 S9: Okay. 01:02:11,269 S4: Uh so. 01:02:14,630 S9: Sorry Kelly. 01:02:19,230 S4: No no go ahead. 01:02:20,570 S9: All right. Thank you. Uh so I believe that this the scope of work addresses this, but I just want to ask this question. The most important thing. What I love about Ipswich, I'll just go out there and fangirl about it. I love that it's a website that people can just go to the website and click through, and it's not a PDF that they have to like, click on and download. Um, that's what so I believe that this does address it. Um, but you know, but I but it's not like for digital and print use. Um, so I believe that does address that. But I just want to make sure I, I think that for like our current and future residents, the best thing thinking myself when I move to town or if I were about to move to town and I wanted to find out, oh my gosh, moving to Main Street, what do I need to do? If I could put a website and just click through on my phone like that's other than obviously the language being clear and our guidelines being, um, Aligned and with our master plan and our mission. I believe that deliverable is all. Is almost just as important as the content. So I just want to ask that question is that does that is that include the website access? 01:03:41,730 S5: Um, I don't know if it's explicitly included, but I can certainly add it though. Just, um, I'll take a look at Ipswich as well. Um, just so I can get an idea. Um, but I can certainly add that I know we definitely want to have just a concise and clear template. Going forward, I don't know that the website itself is listed here, but I can certainly add that. 01:04:02,769 S9: Thank you. 01:04:03,599 S4: Yeah, I mean. 01:04:04,469 S9: Digital, but like maybe just to make it super clear for anyone who's going to, you know, throw their hat in the ring for this. 01:04:12,800 S5: Yeah, that makes sense to me. 01:04:14,329 S6: I think we do need a PDF though, because like we say, this is the 2026 guidance from the this commission and list all the names of the people. And then that can be updated every, you know, two years or whatever the commission wants. But I found it very helpful to find those, like fix reports from this commission. 01:04:35,099 S9: And I agree. And I'm like that too. I print out like I have a, like a low. 01:04:40,929 S4: Uh. 01:04:41,670 S9: Footprint printer. I totally agree with you. But there is a group of people out there who don't print anything. 01:04:52,369 S4: Yeah. 01:04:53,369 S9: I'm not that. 01:04:54,300 S4: Yeah. 01:04:54,570 S6: No, I mean, we have a new brand new web page, a website, and we can add whatever we want. But if we only rely on that for these guidelines, then they change over time and you forget, like things get tweaked and then wait, what was the actual rule, you know, can get get a little lost too. 01:05:17,000 S4: Yeah. 01:05:18,570 S9: Like a PDF is a is like a it's like an almost an analog document. It has to be updated. Based on what? Based on a record which is normally on what's on our town website. Right. Or I won't speak to you know, more about our town website than I do, but I'm just speaking in general. Um, that is like normally where the content would be pulled from for the PDF. So that's all I'm asking is like these, these two things sing along together in a melody. 01:05:56,869 S5: Any other comments? 01:06:04,030 S5: My red lines are from the last. You know, I rewatched the last recording, um, from the last meeting, so I added what I believe was asked. Um, like I said, I haven't heard back from Mike. He did have a few comments. Um, and I will certainly add those as well. 01:06:26,500 S1: Is your goal to send this out on Monday? Tuesday? 01:06:29,199 S5: As soon? I mean, as soon as it's approved, I certainly can. Yeah. As early as next week I could, um, start contacting, uh, consultants. Yep. There's like I said, um, a couple times before, there's a at least two companies that have expressed interest, one of which is Dodson Linker, who, uh, they were the ones that conducted the iron rail best use study. And then there's another one, uh, Skelly preservation, um, who has not worked the town with the town prior, but this is the sort of work they do. Um, they're actually their expertise seems to be historic guideline writing. Um, they've expressed interest as well. I did check with GM Goldson. Unfortunately, they're not currently doing this type of work they might have in the past. I think they might even have helped Ipswich out. Um, but not currently. Um, they're not doing that work currently. 01:07:18,900 S4: Okay. 01:07:19,769 S1: And so the process is once you submit it, then we'll get the proposals back, review the proposals and the references, and then make a vote to go with one of them. And then they'll. Then then the guidelines are in process. Is that correct? 01:07:32,530 S5: Yeah. You know, I don't even think you can certainly vote. I think as long as like I said, if it's under 50,000, I can actually just obtain three, um, valid quotes from different companies and go from there. But there looks like Kirsten. She's coming back in the meeting. But I don't think you're asked to be necessarily be a vote from the committee. Kelly. Um, there can be, though, if you if you feel more comfortable with that. But if it's under if it's between $10,000 and 49,999, I can just obtain three different quotes and I can bring this back. What if I say like I get 4 or 5 people that have contacting me? I can bring this back to the October meeting and then you could all choose one as well. Um, if that, if you're more comfortable with that. 01:08:12,130 S1: Yeah, I think I think that would be fair. I think that would be the best way. So whoever you get proposals from? I think we should review them in advance and then agree to proceed with them. Does anyone feel differently, or do you feel like that's the best process? Okay. 01:08:35,800 S9: I think that's a good a great. 01:08:37,369 S4: Process to do that. 01:08:39,399 S9: Um, I don't and you didn't advocate for this, but I'll just reply to what Joe said. I don't think bringing it to the community is a is a helpful idea right now. 01:08:53,270 S1: Yeah. No, no I just yeah. No, I wasn't suggesting that. I was just suggesting that we vote on who writes which company writes the guidelines. 01:09:03,630 S9: No, I agree, and I know I heard. 01:09:05,270 S1: You. 01:09:05,399 S6: So. 01:09:05,569 S1: I don't want to send it out to the public. 01:09:08,630 S9: I just I just wanted to put that out there, but thank you. 01:09:11,430 S4: Yeah. Okay. 01:09:16,199 S1: All right. So why don't we just try to get any additional changes? Thoughts? Comments to Joe. What? Monday? Because, Joe you're off or it's to close tomorrow. 01:09:25,770 S5: So yeah, I usually have my computer open on Friday. So but whenever folks want to get it to me, that's fine. 01:09:31,329 S4: No problem. 01:09:32,670 S5: Yep. Just again, please just send it to me though. 01:09:36,029 S4: Um, yeah. 01:09:37,270 S1: Let's let's make. Right, right. So why don't we make the guideline, um, Monday in the business day. 01:09:48,470 S1: Okay. 01:09:50,729 S4: All right. 01:09:52,430 S1: Okey dokey. All right. Thank you. Um, and then what else was the agenda? Was it the, um. Um, just minutes and minutes, right. 01:10:00,970 S5: I don't know if Kirsten has a minutes or not. Other, um. 01:10:07,000 S5: Okay. That was the left. Yep. That was the only thing left on the agenda. 01:10:13,369 S4: Okay. All right. 01:10:14,229 S5: Oh, sorry. Real quick. Real quick. The, um. Sorry. Just the CPC hat. They're having your annual public hearing. Um, shout out to Bonnie next Tuesday. Uh, 630. It starts at the Koa this year. Um, there is a zoom component as well if folks want to, uh, tune in. You know, this isn't they're not even close to accepting applications yet, but this is statutorily a requirement. The CPC has to meet once a year to conduct a public hearing. Listen to the any comments? Um, the public has and just go from there for fiscal year 2027 for applications, but that'll be next Tuesday. Uh, the agenda is on the website. Um, and again, that's at the Koa because of the ongoing construction of town hall. And there will be a zoom option as well. 01:10:58,529 S6: No question on that. I am I correct in thinking that this, this commission could be putting aside money for Ta for the purchase of historic properties? Let's say a school that is bankrupt. 01:11:21,130 S5: Um, yeah, I'd have to. I mean, I could look into that. I know right now our. 01:11:26,729 S4: Budget. 01:11:27,529 S6: Commission money put aside and other commissions have money put aside, but we do not have money put aside as far as I know. 01:11:36,000 S5: I mean, other than the. 01:11:37,170 S4: We don't we have. 01:11:38,100 S1: No revenue source. 01:11:40,229 S4: Well, this. 01:11:41,329 S6: Is. 01:11:41,529 S4: A. 01:11:44,100 S6: And and certain amounts of money have to be put aside for historic purposes under the CPC guidelines, which mostly has been renovating town hall. Um. 01:11:58,869 S5: Right. Right. That so that like you're talking about the 10% each year. Um, for historic preservation that, you know, that's the CPC's budget. But yes, that is set aside for historic preservation, but it's in, you know, you have to I guess they have to approve it though. Their board to distribute the funds? Yeah. Yeah. Yes there is. You're correct. 01:12:18,130 S4: There is. 01:12:18,569 S6: So for example, if, um, say we still don't have our, um, demolition delay and there's an incredibly important historic property, but it's going to be torn down. If we had money set aside, we could try to find a way to save it. Those funds. But if we don't have any money, then we don't. We don't have that option. So CP. So the conservation has money could. 01:12:48,770 S4: Be saved. 01:12:49,600 S6: For open space or whoever is. 01:12:52,569 S5: Um, yeah. That was through right through town meeting. Um, that was uh, CPC transfer into that account. So that was a little bit, uh, unique. But yes, um, they do have money set, that money set aside in their account. 01:13:05,000 S6: Just putting a bug in the ear of us to think about that. 01:13:08,770 S4: Mhm. 01:13:10,399 S6: You know, as we know, there's probably going to be a lot more construction happening in the next few years, and some of our properties might be more at risk. So. 01:13:19,899 S9: Kirsten, I think that's a great recommendation. And I actually hadn't even thought of it until you said it. Um, please let me just add, like, I don't think there's any time to waste in preparing an application because applications go in to the CDC in the autumn and it's already, well, it's already autumn. Whoops. Um. 01:13:41,270 S4: Uh. 01:13:42,069 S9: That that should be if that's something that's a that we identify as a priority for the historic commission, then I don't think there's any time to waste in asking for the money. The worst thing that could happen is that they say no or asking for money from. You mentioned one other body, the Preservation Commission or conservation? 01:14:05,000 S4: Conservation? Yeah. 01:14:06,899 S9: Um, yeah. I don't think there's any time to waste because the worst thing they can say is no. And like there. I'm sure there are a bunch of developers just chomping at the bit for that gorgeous property. I don't know. I've separated myself from it because. 01:14:22,430 S6: Yeah, we wouldn't have anywhere near that kind of money, but. 01:14:25,670 S9: We have no money. I don't. 01:14:26,670 S4: Think right. 01:14:27,670 S6: Then came up we would be able to contribute potentially, if every year we were putting a little money aside. That's that's my thought. 01:14:37,500 S1: No, no, I think it's a great idea. I just I never thought about that before. So there's got to be an allocation from our taxes that provide some money into our fund. 01:14:50,069 S6: It is. 01:14:50,729 S4: Yeah. 01:14:51,430 S5: Yeah. Through the CPC, though, it's through the CPA. Um, right. So there's 10% that's given to historic preservation each year, 10% for community housing, 10% for open space slash recreation. But usually you have to ask the CPC to distribute the funds for that purpose. 01:15:08,470 S9: And first you. 01:15:09,229 S4: Would. 01:15:09,569 S5: But yeah, to that point of the Affordable Housing Trust. Generally, I mean, they asked for funds sometimes through that 10% for community housing. So I mean, that's something that HCC could potentially apply for. You know, it's up to the commission. 01:15:24,029 S6: But yeah, and I think in our bylaws or our charge, it says something about managing that like town, I don't know, historic properties. Anyway. Just look at it all I think I just think we're eligible and we haven't done it and we could. 01:15:44,670 S4: I. 01:15:44,970 S9: Agree. 01:15:45,630 S4: I agree I think it's good. 01:15:47,569 S9: Oh sorry. Go ahead Kelly. 01:15:50,369 S1: No I agree I just I mean I'm happy to shoot. I'm happy to help with that. I just I don't know what to do. I mean, so maybe you can walk with me to walk me through that process too. 01:16:02,569 S5: Yeah. I'll see if we can, you know, apply for some of the that 10% that CPC gets each year toward this. I mean, we do have a small budget is $200, but we do have an account. Um, obviously the 50,000, but that's specific to the, uh, the guidelines project, so I can look into that. 01:16:23,600 S4: Um. Thank you. Um. 01:16:26,270 S9: I don't Mary, Mary, I'm Mary and Joel lean on you. I don't think it's appropriate for me to talk about, like, what CPC guidelines are in this meeting. Like, as as, uh, related to specifically like applying and and what the CPC like can't is and is not able to offer Joe and Mary, like, do you want to check me on this? 01:16:51,470 S5: I, um, I would just, you know, I would just be careful. It's, you know, since it's not on the agenda, if there's something like in particular, it's very specific. Perhaps you could share by, you know, just to be very careful. I just want to, you know, note that it's not on the agenda. So it really should be something that's not anticipated coming up. Not reasonably anticipated. Um. 01:17:13,930 S4: But I feel. 01:17:15,699 S6: Like we should just go to that information session as many of us as possible. 01:17:20,569 S9: So I'm sorry to say I'm that is my son's ninth birthday and I won't be there. So I appreciate each and every one of you who will be there. But every night, every birthday night, you know, we go out to a special family dinner. 01:17:36,100 S4: Sure. 01:17:38,300 S6: Anyone else on the committee? You could definitely make it. 01:17:42,729 S1: It's next Tuesday. 01:17:45,399 S5: Yes. 630. Yep. 01:17:48,130 S4: CPC. 01:17:50,869 S1: Yeah, I think. 01:17:56,170 S7: I can probably do it. 01:18:01,970 S9: So it was a little garbled, but I think Lisa was saying, you. 01:18:05,130 S4: Can do it. 01:18:06,069 S1: I've got more flexibility. 01:18:08,069 S7: Yeah. 01:18:09,170 S4: Okay. Yeah. 01:18:10,930 S9: Um, I have a question for Mary. Uh, and anyone else that knows about it, please chime in. But I'm not. I'm not up to, like, the latest penguin haul. Formerly Mullen, formerly monastery. Whatever. Info. I have a deep love for that property. Um. And I know that it was sold from Mullin to the Penguin Hall. Former owners under the like with with with the favorable agreement that it was going to be turned into a school. Into a girls school. You know, that was like a favorable part of the agreement. And I have no aspirations that it should be turned into another school. I think we have enough schools in our town. That's just my personal opinion. Um. What is? Is there any more recent information that I'm not privy to that you feel that you want to share about? What's up with that property right now, where it stands? Um. Interested parties, anything? Because I just. I would love to see it. I want that property to to remain how gorgeous it is. And I would love her to serve one of more than it has since it was Mullen. 01:19:34,729 S2: I don't know anything about. Oh, did you ask me? 01:19:38,000 S6: That should be an agenda item we're getting into, right? Unless that's a new business. 01:19:45,399 S1: I'll just say quickly that the the auction was. Yeah, the auction was just cancelled. You can call the broker. The auction was canceled on Tuesday, and there is interest. 01:19:55,770 S2: Oh. It was. 01:19:56,770 S1: That's all I can say. 01:19:58,869 S9: Is if it's a developer, I. Kirsten, I appreciate what you're saying. I mean, I'm just. I did not anticipate this before it was. But if it's a developer that's going to make it into, like, a bunch of townhouses, that is sad for our town. 01:20:13,270 S6: This is where the demolition delay. 01:20:15,670 S9: I agree. You're right, you're right, you're right. 01:20:18,369 S6: Because right now, there's nothing stopping anyone from tearing it down. 01:20:24,470 S2: And I'd be a shame. 01:20:25,500 S1: I don't think it's going to go there. We we we. So John Wise, who's a senior living developer, was in negotiations with, uh, Jim Mullen to make it into senior living. John Wyse did senior living. And they got that's why the overlay exists in one of them. And, um, they even took deposits down for it. We were the name or whatever was the name architect or do you see? EGA was the name architect and um, wise pulled out and then it was sold to the family that then opened the school, who also is in construction. And then they went into receivership. 01:21:21,029 S4: Yeah. Thank you. 01:21:22,829 S2: I heard that Mullen held a big mortgage for that school, but I don't know whether that's true. 01:21:30,630 S4: Hmm. 01:21:34,329 S6: So it seems like that would. 01:21:36,000 S4: Be I think so. 01:21:37,899 S1: There's also other issues on it, like. 01:21:41,829 S6: Yeah. Like, is it on the register, for example? Not that that's that's anything but. 01:21:50,130 S1: Is it on the historic. 01:21:51,329 S4: Register? 01:21:53,729 S6: I would assume it's on the National Register of Historic Places, but that we should look that up. 01:22:00,399 S4: I don't think. 01:22:01,300 S2: That's. 01:22:01,569 S4: True. 01:22:02,600 S6: I'm tearing it down, though. If it were a landmark, that would be different. Um, so if we are interested in keeping that property, then we should be talking now about that. I mean, keeping it as a building. 01:22:22,630 S9: Yeah, I'm protecting it. 01:22:24,229 S4: Right? 01:22:27,000 S4: I wholeheartedly agree. 01:22:31,569 S4: Yeah. 01:22:32,270 S1: I don't. Just from a construction standpoint. The original building that's there. Um, that was never in back then. And now I don't think anyone's intending to to to pull it down. I think around it. They have ideas about, um, building around it. There's also wetlands back there. And there's also an issue around, um, you'd have to bring your own sewer system in, and you'd also have to bring in. There's some. You've got to figure out the water supply. 01:23:03,930 S4: Yeah. So yeah. 01:23:06,270 S6: Beautiful building. And the renovations were amazing. Looked at it for my daughter, actually. 01:23:14,229 S11: What you done? 01:23:16,369 S1: Okay. It's now 730. Um, is there anything else, guys? 01:23:23,529 S4: No. 01:23:24,199 S1: Okay. So just to recap. So Monday, end of business and any other additional changes regarding the scope to Joe, please directly to him. And then, um, everyone can do their own due diligence about solar and historic communities. Um, and it looks like Bill had his ducks in a row in terms of what he needs to pull together. So hopefully we'll get some good feedback at our next meeting. And Joe, you need to, you know, to pull in, um, the other two committees speak with them. I'm happy to speak with their chairs as well, to understand. You know, maybe the three committees have a pre meeting. The chairs have a pre meeting. I don't know what the guidelines allow that. 01:24:08,069 S5: Um uh planning and slick. 01:24:10,329 S4: Work. 01:24:11,199 S1: You know. And it was nice to for us this. Yeah. Because this is a big deal. So um, you know, it was nice to go first, but I don't want to be the one that's green light. We can't greenlight this. 01:24:31,000 S1: Like, that's where I felt that gentleman was asking us to give our opinion. Yes or no? Um, nobody has enough knowledge, so. So I don't I don't know how to pull that together. 01:24:49,500 S9: I agree, Kelly, I mean, Bill sounded like he. 01:24:53,199 S4: He. 01:24:54,199 S9: Had a good grasp on what he needs to do and like, pull that together and give it to Joe. I felt good about that punch list. I couldn't rattle it off to you right now, but, um, like specific renderings, materials, um, what it will look like from 1AI, I think that if he can come back with that. Um, I won't speak for everyone here. I think that would give me a much clearer vision into what it will look like, and that would be the info I would need to then ask other people to come join in and look at it together, like Kirsten recommended, which I agree with. 01:25:36,569 S6: I think maybe the chair is doing it on site visit raising whatever questions. Maybe you bring in the fire chief, you know, whatever or the what a museum that like a pre meeting to get out major issues in advance would be a smart thing for them to do. 01:25:54,270 S9: Like a pre meeting before all this info comes in. 01:25:56,869 S6: Yeah, but not a meeting of the of a quorum of any committee. Right. So that is allowed. 01:26:06,369 S4: I. 01:26:07,800 S9: I appreciate your perspective. I don't I would not get value from that. 01:26:13,869 S4: I just want. 01:26:15,369 S9: Info. 01:26:16,000 S4: To. 01:26:16,199 S9: Meet before I even come back and talk about it again. You know, that's just my perspective. But, um, that's just me. I'm not saying no. I'm just saying I could be there. I just wouldn't help me. 01:26:30,130 S4: Yeah. 01:26:31,670 S1: Joe, why don't I call you, um, Monday if you're off tomorrow? Um, just to get some more, um, some more feedback or some more, um, guidance on how this should come together legally. You know, so we don't, um. 01:26:50,069 S4: Uh. 01:26:52,500 S1: Uh, get in trouble? 01:26:55,470 S5: Sure. Happy to chat further about that. No problem. I can bring in Steve as well. 01:27:00,300 S1: Okay. Yeah, that would be really helpful. 01:27:02,329 S4: Okay. All right. 01:27:03,699 S1: So with that, um, I'm going to conclude this meeting. Um, if nobody has anything else, it's seven. No. Everyone. Good? Okay, good. Um, the time now is 7:30 p.m.. Um. Thursday, September 18th, 2025. Um, make a motion to close the meeting for the one Historic District Commission. 01:27:24,930 S9: Seconded. 01:27:27,869 S4: Favor? 01:27:31,529 S1: I I. 01:27:33,470 S4: Okay, sorry. 01:27:36,069 S1: All right. Okay, everyone, I thank you for your time tonight. It was super helpful, super productive. And, um, we will see you at the next meeting. If not, have feedback and dialogue before.