00:00:00,701	S1:
Right. There's two items on the agenda tonight. And we're going to start with you guys first. Great. All righty.

00:00:13,267	S2:
Yeah. So your second item was a solar canopy over the to the parking lot right behind town hall.

00:00:22,200	S1:
That is it. It's in, um, keeping with the master plan to go net zero by 2050. Um, they already put a geothermal system in.

00:00:35,467	S1:
The. It's odd. Well, it makes sense that it does it. To me, it's, um. Interesting, um, that they're coming to us solely and then other people with, um, to get our thoughts about it, and we don't, but we don't have any say and what the costs are. Um, what is the impact, you know, what are the cost savings, so forth and so on. Or is this purely looking at from the historic district purview?

00:01:14,501	S2:
Right.

00:01:15,300	S1:
So, yeah.

00:01:17,167	S3:
See, um, our bodies here as well. And Bob Knowles, I'm still waiting on a couple of HCC members here out here. Mike Reid is here. Hi, Bill. How are you?

00:01:27,300	S4:
Good. How are you doing, bro?

00:01:29,400	S3:
Good, good. Like I was saying, Bill, we're just going to go over that application first and then we'll talk. Uh, we'll get over to you after that. If you could just stand by for a little bit, I'd appreciate it.

00:01:39,901	S4:
I'll probably go ahead.

00:01:41,667	S3:
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Hi, Mike. How you doing?

00:01:46,701	S4:
Good. Good to see everyone.

00:01:48,701	S3:
You too.

00:01:50,000	S4:
Great.

00:01:50,868	S3:
Hi, Bob. How you doing?

00:01:52,767	S4:
Good. Thank you. How are you? Thanks for having me.

00:01:55,467	S3:
No problem. We're still waiting on. At least we need at least one more member to start. Okay, so thanks everyone for your patience.

00:02:09,801	S3:
I don't know if you're able to text Bonnie. I think she said she was coming, but, um.

00:02:13,501	S1:
Yeah. One second.

00:02:46,868	S1:
Is Lisa.

00:02:49,267	S3:
Lisa is as well, but she is not here. I just I just sent her a message.

00:02:55,601	S1:
We do have a quorum, guys. So that's.

00:02:57,300	S3:
Yes.

00:02:57,901	S1:
One more body.

00:02:59,100	S3:
Okay. One more. Yep.

00:03:11,701	S3:
Well, are some awesome bunnies here.

00:03:16,767	S3:
Okay,

00:03:19,467	S3:
skip on in here.

00:03:24,167	S3:
Hey, Bonnie.

00:03:25,067	S5:
Sorry I'm late.

00:03:26,267	S3:
That's okay. No problem. Hey, Bonnie. We are good to go, though, because we have four now, so, um, call it, uh, Kelly. Or you can do a call to order whenever you're able to.

00:03:34,868	S1:
Okay, great. Uh, today is, uh, Wednesday, October 23rd. The time now is 5:04 p.m.. I'd like to call to order the meeting for the one Historic District Commission. Please say your name. And, um, we are.

00:03:52,968	S5:
Bonnie Anderson. present.

00:03:55,300	S1:
Nelson Alexander present.

00:03:57,367	S4:
Michael Reid present.

00:03:59,100	S1:
And Kelly, Schmidt.

00:04:02,000	S3:
And Kelly, if I may, I just want to say I think there's some public comment for the solar potential solar project, but I just want to let folks know we're just going over the there's a resident that is applying for a, um, application at 153 Main Street. So we're just going to do that first and then we'll go on to the solar piece. So again, thank you for your patience. Um, and if Kelly if you're good, I can we can start with, um, with Brian Stein for the 153 Main Street project.

00:04:28,667	S1:
That'd be.

00:04:28,901	S3:
Great. Um, okay, Brian, you can take it away whenever you want. I'm just gonna share the information you gave me. Just let me know if I'm scrolling too fast or whatever, but you can kind of give a rundown whenever you're able to.

00:04:38,467	S2:
Okay, great. Yeah. Once you pull that up, I'll, uh. I'll start.

00:04:42,467	S4:
Yeah.

00:04:49,167	S3:
Yeah, you can get. I'm gonna just share the agenda so you can you can start. Go ahead.

00:04:52,300	S2:
Yep. Um, yeah. So I'm sure you're all familiar. 153 main. Um. It's interesting. I was looking at it again today, and there's two differing dates on when the house was built. Um, one is on the house for 1697. Um, and the other is 1731. That is on, you know, the town's historic site. And Makris so I'm assuming it's the 1731 is is more accurate. But anyway, um, you've all seen the house. Um, my or the, uh, our client bought it, um, a number of months ago and has done a little bit of just brush cleanup in the back. It was pretty well overgrown as some of the pictures you'll see here. Um, when we took them, our, uh, you know, the buildings then back were kind of overgrown as well as the additions to the house. But, um, essentially what we're looking to do is, is keep the existing home more or less as is, uh, the original home itself. Uh, the front sides. Obviously the back will change, but I'll explain that in a second. Um, there's a very odd single storey angled addition off the rear of the home that is, you know, very, very much encroaching on the setback. Um, and then there's also a small old cobbler shed behind that, and there's an old barn on the other side of the property, kind of at the end of the driveway that we're looking to remove. Uh, as I mentioned, uh, while I, you know, on the cobbler's shed, we are going to save that and renovate that, but move it for now to the back. Uh, more behind the, uh, new garage we're proposing, and it might eventually become a either just a shed for storage or potentially, like a little pool shed if the owner goes forward with a potential pool down the road. Uh, but we are planning to keep it, um, because we think it's an interesting piece of the, historic fabric of the property. Um, so, yeah, if you actually, if you go back up real quick, um, on those images, you'll see the existing rear of the home as we saw it a few months ago. Um, a little bit overgrown that you see the addition? There's a kind of a square addition off the back there, and then it angles off to the left there in this picture on the right. Um, so that will all be coming off in the, you know, existing piece of the home will be staying in the front there. The original kind of rectangle of the home. Um, the front of the home, if you go back up one, uh, one page there. Um, can I see it as it is today? I took a picture to show you. The top left picture here shows the single story addition on the on the right side of the house as you see it from one A across the neighbor's driveway and the other side, uh, heading up one way towards Ipswich. You. It's. It's overgrown enough and there's enough foliage in the front. You don't really see what's really going on in the back very, very easily. Um, but the existing front of the home is, is is quite handsome. We're looking to essentially preserve that. Um, a lot of the wood is in poor repair. Um, so the owner is proposing to, you know, basically replace all, you know, soffits, trim and etc.. Um, there are two little windows on the side of the bump out entry that are these arched windows that don't are definitely not original to the home. And we're going to just remove those, um, but, uh, you know, the windows will be replaced essentially in kind with new, uh, you know, clad windows. Um, but we are proposing to remove the shutters. Um, and again, uh, as you'll see Farther down in the set here some. The window trim will be kind of bumped up a notch, a little bit higher. Style federal is what we're looking to do. Uh, for that, um, the main. Well, there's the inside of the cobbler shed. Uh, you really can't see what it looks like from the outside, given all the overgrowth. And then. Yeah, below there is the barn there we're proposing to remove that is in really tough structural shape. Um, originally thought about keeping it, but it's it's the structural members. It's just built into the dirt, essentially. And it's in pretty, some pretty rough shape. Um, I don't know exactly when that was built. Um, so as we keep coming down here through the set, um, you'll see if you go to the next, I think two sheets down, it shows our proposed site plan. Yeah. There you go. Um, so you'll see what we're proposing to add. as I described in the project description, it's kind of a, you know, big house, little house, back house, barn kind of idea where the left side of this is a large barn slash garage. And then the infill between that is the, um, little house and back house, um, off of the main house. Um, the main house is actually relatively small. The the kitchen is not currently in that section of the house. It's in. Well, it's kind of half in and half out in that rear addition. Um, so we're proposing, uh, the section right off the back of the house, there will be the new kitchen. And then behind that is essentially mudroom and a bedroom, first floor bedroom. Um, the as you'll see, the dotted area there is the existing addition that was done, you know, quite a number of years ago is very much nonconforming. We are trying to bring this back into zoning conformance. So the new addition is fully conforming. Um, and, and it still allows us to get the driveway around to the back of the, the barn and garage. Um, if you keep going down, this floor plan is flipped the opposite way. So, um, the barn is on the right and the and the one A is on your left, but you'll kind of see the layout here is basic, you know, the, the four rooms on the front of the house essentially stay the current, um, upper room called the living room. Um, is currently one room with a fireplace in the center. Uh, we'll probably be bringing that back to two rooms, but you'll see the kitchen with the scullery. The bedroom I talked about and the kind of mudroom area. And the garage and barn. Some mechanical space. Um, this will this will not have a basement under it or anything. So, uh, second floor if you keep going Again, mainly bedrooms. Um, you know, to serve the client's needs. Um, and then. Yeah, if you keep scrolling down, we get into the elevations. So. Front of the house is very much as you see it now, minus the shutters. We've detailed some of the trim as we're proposing here. And then the drawing showing from the driveway side from the west side shows the addition. Step down from the main house, the roofline with two small gabled dormers in the bedroom, a rear entrance into the kitchen, and then kind of the, uh, go back house there with the arched openings and the French doors, um, that essentially are, you know, filled in barn openings or garage openings from an old house. And then we have the full barn in the back. Um, that we've kept very simple. You know, no dormers. Um, just a good size old barns. What it looks like. Um, yeah. I guess you can keep going through the other elevations as well. So that's the rear. You won't see any of from the street. You really don't see most of this at all from the street, other than a little bit of the roofline. You'll definitely see the new barn from, uh, kind of the east side of one. A, um, you'll see the height of it. Uh, you won't see too too much of the middle part there between the barn and the existing house. Other than a little bit of the roofline. Um, so we, you know, we feel this is very much in keeping with the existing house. The owner, uh, really wants to put a wood, you know, a wood shingle roof on the house, which will really, you know, um, bring it back to what it should be. Uh, you don't see too many people doing that anymore, given the cost of it, but it really, really adds to the look of the home. Um, and obviously, you know, cedar clapboards and trim and so forth. So, um, he's the owner has done quite a few renovations to various historic buildings throughout New England and other areas. So he's actually very familiar with, uh, style and what it takes to renovate and add to an old building. And he's, you know, very excited about this. This is he's going to live here. Um, so it's, uh, kind of it'll be a fun project for him. Um, I think that's pretty much it on my part. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have.

00:14:18,467	S3:
Thanks, Brian. Any questions from the commission?

00:14:24,767	S5:
Um, yeah, I would I don't know, it's a question, but I would recommend that we do a site visit. I've been through this property and it is one of the best preserved, homes in the historic district. So for us, this is a really big decision and I appreciate everything you've done here. Um, but I certainly have some concerns, but I would want the bigger commission to be here as well.

00:14:58,000	S4:
Hey, Brian. Just a couple of questions. One. Um, so on the site plan, I didn't see the relocation of the cobbler's shed. Is that to be determined?

00:15:05,767	S2:
It's TBD. Yes. Exactly where it's going to go. Yes.

00:15:09,267	S4:
Yeah. Okay. Um, and then, um, what was the decision about? What was the kind of process of deciding to remove the shutters and not replace or kind or restore them?

00:15:22,467	S2:
The owner likes the cleaner look of, um, of, you know, having no shutters. Um, you know, it's I was looking at various images of of of homes from this era. And, you know, some have some some don't. Um, as you probably know. Um, so yeah, it was just, uh, just to have the slightly cleaner look, um, on the front, but it's, you know, it's it's not a deal breaker. You know, if you. So you really have to have them, then we're certainly open to it.

00:15:54,067	S4:
Yeah. It's just a question mark in my mind in terms of, like, preserving the original look of the house. Um, with the understanding that, you know, there are houses built at this era, that is. But this one does so.

00:16:08,167	S2:
Right. Well, it did at some point. Yes. Yeah.

00:16:12,367	S4:
So yeah, we only go with I doubt there's any old photos of this.

00:16:16,467	S2:
But yeah, we're not 100% sure. You know, if it was built in 1731, like a couple of the, like Makris shows. Um, we kind of thought it might have been upgraded in the late 1700s. Yeah. Um, but I 100% sure it's what it kind of looks like us, but yeah.

00:16:33,667	S4:
I wonder if the front entry piece was put on later.

00:16:36,567	S2:
Yeah, pretty sure it was.

00:16:37,801	S4:
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:39,067	S2:
Yeah, it was definitely altered later with those arched little arched windows. Um, which aren't inappropriate.

00:16:46,167	S4:
Right. I think I think, um, I mean, I don't know if this is outside the purview of the committee, but, um, just in terms of the thing, I mean, if you look at the footprint and it's like tripling the footprint of the building and the massing of the barn is, is quite large, um, in comparison to the original house. Um, I think you've done a good job of kind of tucking the addition in the kind of one story bedroom portion back. Um, so and I don't, you know, I guess I don't I'm not I'm unclear about, um,

00:17:23,000	S4:
the, the existing barn. I totally understand about the structural nature. A lot of these old buildings have no foundation, stuff. Um.

00:17:34,267	S1:
Yeah. It's, um, I've walked the property as well. I didn't go to the copper shed when I was there, but I think a site visit would be helpful. The, um.

00:17:47,501	S1:
I think the overall concern is that, um, the addition is severely altering the historic nature of this house. Um, and I'm just one member of the committee here. Um, uh, and the barn that is there now is not at all what is represented in the drawings.

00:18:19,267	S2:
Um, no, it's that that would be gone. The existing barn would be gone.

00:18:23,801	S1:
And to the best of my knowledge, um, The commission has never approved demolition of an existing building. We don't have a demo bylaw in place. Um, but to the best of my knowledge, and I haven't been on this committee for a decade, but I don't know of any, any in the historic district. And maybe, Joe, you may know that of existing buildings being demolished only.

00:18:57,901	S3:
Um, I'm not aware of any currently.

00:19:01,100	S1:
Only rebuilt or supported. I understand. I mean, Brian, you know, I'm in construction and I understand, and and Michael's that architect as well. So he understands the cost items involved with all these all these things. I mean, it's a beautiful it's a beautiful piece of property. Um, and, um, it's just, um, it's quite a sizable alteration altogether.

00:19:26,300	S2:
Oh. It is. No, there's no. There's no question about that. We're not, you know, denying that. It really comes down to if you look at some of how these houses were added on to over the years. Um, not just here, but other places around New England. Right. What was appropriate, and a lot of them had the house. They had a barn. We can, you know, discuss the size of that barn. You know, they're all over the place. Right. And what happened in the middle, right. They all not all a lot of them got added to to connect to the barn over the years. Right. And that's kind of what the this story here is. Right. The. Yeah. Um, there's a huge precedents for that.

00:20:00,767	S6:
There's the big house, little house, back house, barn. And that is exactly that's a book written by one of the local shoemakers he wrote. He either wrote the book or he references that book. Right? About the big house. Little house, back house, barn. That's kind of what you're showing here. Exactly.

00:20:19,100	S7:
A lot of L-shaped houses. Yeah.

00:20:22,300	S5:
But that's not what this house was. um, so this house had one of the very traditional cobbler sheds that, um, is somewhat unique to the north shores when I gather. And in this, this one Wellington pool lived. Who is my personal hero? Who was a former town clerk?

00:20:43,667	S2:
Um.

00:20:44,767	S5:
And a really important historian for the town. So the you know, I, I'm particularly concerned about that the shoemaker cottage and sort of what's going to happen to that, um, as well as the barn and the just pretty radical change to the, the whole thing. And I live in a big house, little house, back house, barn kind of house. But that's not what happened here. That's not the development of this particular house. And one of our things is we can't just pick something, you know, that's historic in other places and try to put it into a property here. Um, everything in the historic district has, I think, a de facto demolition delay, that the fact that we don't have it in the rest of the town is irrelevant. Everything in the historic district is Christian.

00:21:33,701	S6:
And how how does that apply to outbuildings? I mean, um, because I have an old property from the 1800s, and I know there was a big barn here at one point, but then that was away, you know, so it's like built these kind of wooden structures don't last forever, but.

00:21:50,601	S5:
Right. And our historic district only came into play in the 70s, so anything that was demolished before that was not protected. So I can't speak to anything before then.

00:22:02,167	S6:
But certainly like, what about out structures? What about outbuildings for concrete?

00:22:07,767	S5:
It's everything is under review.

00:22:10,467	S6:
Yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure that because there's two sheds, there's a little one and a bigger one. The big one.

00:22:16,868	S1:
The barn is directly down the driveway.

00:22:19,100	S6:
All the way down the.

00:22:20,000	S1:
Poplar shed is you, you you won't be able to see it unless you walk the back of the property, right?

00:22:25,501	S6:
Oh, okay. I was on, I thought I saw it. All right. Thanks.

00:22:29,868	S3:
Bonnie, do you have your hand up?

00:22:30,901	S6:
Bonnie?

00:22:31,567	S7:
Yes. Thank you. Um, so my question. I agree with Kirsten. I agree with what you're saying. A counterpoint is like, we also have to respect the the future owners of this house. And may they be as historically inclined as we all are. Like it must be a usable space. So the cobbler's, uh, shed, barn, whatever that I, I love respecting that. But we have to also take into consideration that it should be a usable space. It should not just be allowed to, like, fall into ruin. I know that's not what you're saying, Kirsten, but It like we have to consider just there's a balance here. And from the. Just like from a historic commission perspective from the front, I think this looks really good, like better than it does today. Um, so my concern is mostly I love this home and I want to I want we're I believe we're all committed to preserving the way that it looks and historic feel. But we have to also consider that the future, the next 100 years of this home, we have to, like, allow that barn to be, you know, updated the cobbler shed to be updated. These should be usable spaces and comment.

00:24:10,167	S1:
Yeah. The body to your point, the barn is getting demolished. The culvert space. I don't know what's going to happen to that.

00:24:17,267	S2:
Yeah. Now that we're absolutely saving it. It's going to get moved. We don't have an exact plan of where it's going just yet, but it is going to be saved and, you know, redone to a point that it's brought back to what it was. Um, we it still seems fairly solid. And we will, you know, obviously do our best to preserve it as much as possible. Um, it's. Yeah. You really, like you said, can't see it right now. It was. It's overgrown, you know, you have to walk back into the property, you see it, and you still will have to do that. Obviously, it'll just be farther back on the property. Um, and again, whether it's a, you know, you know, man shed, she shed, storage shed or pool house or, you know, we're not 100% sure, but it will be on the property and remain there and be saved.

00:25:04,901	S3:
Uh, Mimi, did you have a comment? I just want to make sure you have a question.

00:25:08,267	S8:
Well, it was answered that you are keeping the cobbler shed, which is really nice. Um, uh, for what it's worth, I think it's a beautiful design. And I agree with Bonnie that we need to all live in this century. And the other factor I wanted to point out is that in the past, we have made our neighbors on Main Street restore their barns. And, you know, I think we need to be careful about what we're we're doing now and moving forward. Maybe we set a new precedent, but, um, you know, on the street, some people have been made to renovate their barns, and I don't think that's necessarily fair. And, um, I don't think, you know, we have a right to spend people's money. So I really like this design. I think it's in keeping historically. I think it's beautiful. And I respect the fact that you are going to put money into the cobbler shed. So I think it's a win win. So thank you for your beautiful design.

00:26:17,100	S2:
Thank you.

00:26:23,067	S1:
Um, just as the chair of the HTC. I don't feel necessarily comfortable with asking for a vote this evening. Um, I think we're we're split at the moment, so, um, like, I make a motion to see you guys are in agreement to do a site visit.

00:26:40,300	S4:
Sure. Um, can I also just. In terms of the collar shed, I think, um, because that has historic significance. And you are planning to restore it, I guess I think a more concrete idea of what that is and where it's located would be helpful, as opposed to just a to be determined. If we give approval to this, then that could be anything. And so I think we need to have some sort of documentation as to what is actually going to be restored and where it's been.

00:27:10,367	S6:
I second that I yeah. Before we, we could see some idea like we we need to see what? Why walk the property if we don't know what you're doing with the, um.

00:27:20,667	S4:
Yeah. Right.

00:27:21,367	S2:
Yeah. And we can we can certainly do that. And I know, you know, the owner had mentioned a potential pool and having it, you know, bring that in some way. I, you know, and we can show that without an issue. Um, I'm just wondering if, you know, circumstances change, you know, a year from now and he's like, I really don't want a pool. Is that going? You know, how would that affect, you know, if we wanted to move it someplace else, right. We have to come back to alter that location.

00:27:53,167	S4:
Just I think that would be a reasonable request, though. I think, you know, things change. But I think the idea I think generally it's it could be like location to be determined because obviously the you have to site the pool as well. But I think a general plan and like elevations and the look of what is going to be restored would be okay..

00:28:12,000	S2:
That's fine. That's fine.

00:28:13,601	S4:
Um, I think the. I think generally, I agree, I think taking the one story addition off that's nonconforming and restoring that elevation to probably what it was more like originally is a good thing. Um, I think overall the concept of, you know, big house, little house, back house, barn is generally good. Um, I think the shutters issue, I would probably lean towards refurbishing or replacing the shutters because that is, you know, whether they're original or not. That's what we see now, right, as this historic. If we consider that, we look at it, this is a historic building. That's what we see. I think that's probably what should be preserved. Um, and then I guess for the committee, it's like the question is if if we do say, okay, this is that's fine. Let's go ahead with this plan. Uh, just implications For future people who come before the committee and say, well, you approve this one. I want to put a, you know, something even larger than this on the back of a house. You know, we have to kind of consider the precedent we spent with the committee as well. So I just want to that probably should be part of the discussion.

00:29:30,701	S6:
I'm not a few minutes late to the discussion, but what about the heights where the heights of, um, you know, the you have the original height with the chimney, and it looks like you're going up high with the little, um, cupola. Mhm. And then what is the height of the roof of the back area matching the any. Does it need to match any of the elevations of the front.

00:29:59,801	S2:
The we purposely drop the roofline of the section directly behind the existing house. Um, it's, it's a little narrower. So that roofline drops, which is appropriate. We didn't want it to match the height. We wanted it to step down to the barn. And, you know, the barn would typically, in a lot of cases, be taller than the house.

00:30:20,968	S9:
Mhm mhm mhm mhm.

00:30:22,367	S4:
But I assume you're you're below the height limit. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. The 35ft whatever it is. Yeah.

00:30:29,400	S5:
Um so we actually have a motion on the floor. Just wanted to get back to that up um to continue the conversation at a site visit.

00:30:41,501	S7:
So moved.

00:30:43,100	S5:
Well, does that Bonnie? Are you seconding?

00:30:46,701	S7:
Yep.

00:30:48,901	S5:
So then, Kelly, we would need to have a vote on that motion.

00:30:51,868	S1:
So all in favor of doing a site visit at a time convenient for, um, the architect and the committee?

00:31:02,667	S8:
I I.

00:31:04,467	S6:
I.

00:31:06,367	S5:
I.

00:31:08,000	S1:
Said, Brian, what we're going to do then is, um, thank you for your presentation first and answering all the questions. Um, we will do a site visit and we'll circle back in terms of when it works for you. Um, I don't know if your client wants to come or not. And the committee and I know you want to get this going, so we'll try to be time sensitive. Um, and then in the interim, if you have any ideas of where this cobbler should be, we could have some idea, like, we can talk about it while we're on site. I think would be best. Yeah. And then, um, we could then reconvene at Town Hall afterwards. Should there be any public comment about it? Does that sound okay to you?

00:32:02,000	S2:
Yeah.

00:32:02,868	S1:
Okay.

00:32:03,767	S2:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you guys want to just give me a, you know, a date or two that works for everybody, that'd be great.

00:32:08,567	S1:
Yeah. Okay. All righty.

00:32:11,567	S8:
Um, say that this house matches Mrs. Hunter's house on our street. I don't know what number it is, but it's two over the one next to, well, two over from me. It's the same exact format.

00:32:26,801	S7:
To the Hamilton side or to the one on the side.

00:32:30,167	S8:
Um, well, on my side, so.

00:32:32,667	S7:
I know on your side, but I mean to, like.

00:32:34,667	S8:
Oh, going towards Beverly.

00:32:36,567	S7:
Okay. Thank you.

00:32:37,467	S8:
The white House is set back from the street in the front. She has the same exact format. Big house. Little house?

00:32:47,767	S9:
Yeah.

00:32:48,868	S7:
Yeah. They have a nice set back, so I've never noticed, but. Yeah. Cool. Thanks.

00:32:55,167	S1:
All right, let's move on to the. I've got a hard stop at six.

00:32:57,801	S9:
Thank you Brian I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, Brian.

00:33:01,100	S3:
Um, yeah. So we thanks for the public commenters the patience we went a little over, but I believe we have a couple of public comments regarding the potential solar project. If Kelly is okay with proceeding to public comment, we can do that.

00:33:16,200	S1:
Please.

00:33:17,267	S3:
Uh, so please raise your hand if you'd like to speak.

00:33:25,267	S3:
Uh, yep. Thomas. Star. Go ahead. Tom.

00:33:28,667	S10:
Hi. Yeah. Uh, so I'm tuned in, uh, partially because I'm on that climate and sustainability committee. And so, you know, um, I've talked to Kelly about trying to bridge things going on between the two committees. Um, and I, um, I'm always speaking now as a resident, not not as a member of the committee. That's my other thing. And in that. But in that capacity, of course, you know, I would be for the solar canopy. But, um, as a resident and kind of, you know, similar to the discussion that just took place, although I didn't know there was going to be that discussion. Um, you know, I'm a little concerned about precedent with the solar canopy, and if that's the best place for it, I know that, uh, the last meeting I attended, there was a robust discussion about the value of it in terms of energy savings. Totally all for that. You know, as a resident as well as in my position on the committee. But but as a resident, you know, there's only one historic district, there's only one historic town hall. And and there's only one historic district commission. And it seems to me that in addition to what all the other committees are evaluating about the solar canopy, um, the one thing that your committee could weigh in on is its effect on the historic district and what kind of precedent it sends.

00:35:07,767	S1:
Yeah.

00:35:08,667	S10:
That's quite a comment.

00:35:12,000	S3:
Um, we also have Bob Knowles. We'd like to speak. Go ahead. Bob.

00:35:15,200	S9:
Yeah.

00:35:15,567	S11:
Thanks, Joe. Um, so I have a quick written statement here. Hi, everyone. I'm Bob Knowles, 201 Main Street one. I'm. I'm a founding member of the Hamilton one m Climate action team. H w climate action. I'm sure most of you hopefully have heard about us over the last three years. Our first major success when we formed three years ago, was creating both towns climate change resolutions and getting them approved by Wenham Selectboard unanimously two years ago, and in Hamilton at their annual town meeting by an overwhelming 95% citizen support. Also, two years ago, uh, might actually it was three years ago. Almost both towns resolutions call for an overall goal of zero carbon by 20, 40, 50 to only 15 short years from now, folks. Um, not a whole lot of time. We have a lot of work to do, and both towns have created committees to help move the needle, so that's great. Wenham and Hamilton were among the first green communities in the state, having achieved this designation ten years ago. Climate Action Team has had several key successes over the past couple of months, including number one. Helping to facilitate was involved in all 3 or 4 of these directly involved over the last 12 months. Number one, helping to facilitate the regional school district switch over from fossil buses to 17 fully electric school buses under their new ten year contract with Dougherty's garage. Um, so that was a huge win. I was able to help facilitate a $5 million federal grant that that they were able to achieve, even given the new administration. So. And number two, with the great support of Essex County state Reps. Sally Kerins and Kristin Kasner, we facilitated the iron rail, 288 kilowatt ground mounted solar project and the high school 250 kilowatt solar park and canopy fully out of National Grid's cap and study process. Uh, the canopy at the high school has been in their study for three years. Two more years they were talking about we had a couple of meetings with National Grid at town, at Wenham Town Hall, and as of this month, they're pulling both projects out of the study and allowing them to proceed. So that was a massive victory. Iron rail Project will provide one, a municipal 68% of their electric load under long term power agreement with the developer Select Energy and three. Finally, the Hamilton Housing Authority also, which I was directly involved with under H.W. Cat, in partnership with son Wolf, will be going rooftop solar on all seven of their homes, supplying 100kW of clean electricity to the residents for the next 20 years. Our Climate Action Team helped facilitate the Housing Authorities Board approval over a three month period last spring. More and more. When I'm in Hamilton, residential homes are going clean energy every month now. That's a lot of our work with H.W.. Cat is just creating a lot of awareness and educating the residents in how to how to get cleaner. Installing solar heat pumps. EV chargers buying eBay's EVs. Energy audits done by mass saves. So as it as it pertains to the to the canopy proposed on the town hall proposed and modestly scaled solar park and canopy at Town Hall is a very important project that will help the town meet at Zero Carbon by 2040 goals on time, it will help power the new geothermal system currently under development, providing the perfect 360 degree clean energy solution. This canopy will be a wonderful statement of innovation that our town will feel proud to showcase. Let's keep this great clean energy momentum moving forward. I urge the Commission to consider some flexibility in our bylaws and approve this important project. First church of one I'm 22 kilowatt solar roof project, which I was always in, also involved with, which was developed last year. The commission. Your commission allowed that project to proceed in the historical district, as I understand that. Let's do the same for this solar park. And can it be a town hall? Thanks very much for your time, everyone.

00:39:45,868	S3:
Thank you Bob. Is there a further public comment from any residents?

00:39:54,000	S3:
Bonnie, I noticed your hand is up, though.

00:39:56,000	S1:
Can we reset the stage though before we jump in to comments?

00:40:00,501	S7:
Really? Yes.

00:40:01,467	S1:
Commission. So we met, um, the last time we met, um, with ESG. Um, it was the first time I was hearing about the solar project, and, um, I in the interim, I also talked to the CPC because that's where the financing would be coming from. Um, I've also we've also received a letter from the town administrator, um, about the project. Um, we also know that in the master plan for one of them is to do, you know, net zero by 2050. Um, since the master plan was executed, the geothermal system has gone into, um, to support Town Hall. The reason why the town started with the HGC and um, TPC, everybody else is, is pushing back to us is that we are only to look through about this project in respect to what the bylaws say, how the solar will affect impact the historic nature of.

00:41:23,868	S1:
The historic district of Wenham. That is the only guys that we've been asked that that's how we should be approaching this, not that, not the impact of, you know, going to net zero, not the cost, not because 68% of the energy produced is coming elsewhere for the town. It's only based on What we are established as a committee to do. Part of the priority discussion, though, is that we asked ESG to do some renderings, which they'll talk about tonight, as well as propose additional sites to consider where putting a solar field, given the sensitivities of this very historic town and everybody wanting to preserve that look and feel and, you know, being a collective group, probably for the better part of a year and a half now. Um, so I hope that's clear with everybody. Um, what we're tasked with tonight and, um, but so anyways, go ahead. Joe. Aw.

00:42:29,167	S3:
Thanks, Kelly. I just want to quickly mention I was tasked with checking in with public safety on this. Uh, both the police and fire chief are okay with the current dimensions, and they are not concerned that there would be any EMS vehicles having any trouble getting through the parking lot. I just wanted to point that out. Also, um, financing would likely. probably not, actually not come from the CPA, likely from a different source, perhaps free cash. But I wanted to point that out as well. Um, it likely would not fall under one of the categories, um, for CPA funding. Um, I also wanted to mention that, you know, just as a reminder, this committee did task me with drafting the new historic district guidelines, which do allow for a bit more flexibility with solar. I did want to point that out as well. And, um, I, I believe Bonnie also has her hand up.

00:43:18,267	S7:
Uh, thank you. Joe and Kelly agree. In the interest of time, Kelly is a hard stop at six. Um, I, I believe everything I was going to say has sort of been said, so let's move forward.

00:43:34,000	S3:
Our body is here. If you wanted to just. I don't know if you had any further questions from him. He sent those renderings I sent to the commission. But I want to let you know Bill is in attendance for questions. Should the commission have any?

00:43:44,167	S7:
Yeah. My only question, the feedback or question I have is why must it be set? If I'm looking at town hall from the front. Yeah, the the canopy is set somewhat to the right. I would in my mind. I saw it in like directly centre in the back, um, to be as hidden as possible from the street. Uh, that must be possible. I mean, it's full sun back there. Am I wrong?

00:44:19,167	S9:
So if.

00:44:19,667	S12:
I can, can I share my screen.

00:44:21,567	S7:
Please?

00:44:22,501	S12:
Okay, I sent the request.

00:44:25,868	S9:
Yep.

00:44:26,267	S3:
Go ahead. Bill.

00:44:27,167	S12:
Okay. So I want to share this. Um, this is sort of the aerial view from from Google. Uh, so a couple challenges. You know, there's always a number of constraints when designing solar. Um, and, uh, I think to Tom's comments earlier. I think there's a lot of support in the state for Municipal Canopy, the way they they help incentivize it. Um, and that's why you don't see a lot of these outside of, you know, schools and, and municipal properties. Um, and you really would like unlikely see one in a residence type thing. It's just not not effective. Um, but so so first of all, we looked at the land. There's not a lot of land space. And, of course, that that that is a much worse view. You have the fence around it, and it's not very practical. The roof itself is, is this roof is, is is older. It's from 2007. So at some point in the next 5 to 10 years it will have to be redone. You typically don't.

00:45:24,267	S9:
Want. Yeah I'm sorry.

00:45:25,367	S3:
Bill. We're not seeing.

00:45:26,367	S9:
Your we're not seeing.

00:45:27,300	S4:
Anything if you're sharing. I think you need to hit the share button.

00:45:30,067	S9:
Yeah, sure.

00:45:33,367	S12:
Why is that?

00:45:34,467	S3:
The green share button in the middle at the bottom of the screen? It should be a green arrow says share pointing, pointing upwards.

00:45:40,868	S12:
I thought I hit it.

00:45:42,100	S3:
Um, I want to try.

00:45:43,501	S9:
It.

00:45:43,567	S4:
Again to confirm it.

00:45:46,367	S12:
I share, okay. It's just picking which one I want to share.

00:45:51,667	S9:
That's my okay. Thank you.

00:45:55,868	S12:
All right. So, um. So this. So the canopy works because it's got a center stage in here. Over. And this is a parking area. Two parking spots back to back. Um, I think are you suggesting that this kind of move towards this way, which is, quite frankly, this is somebody else's property here? Um, and, um, it can't be center line here because also, that'd be offset. Anyway, so so this was the best spot from an from a, from an orientation. It does it it says behind us we can make it, um, without getting into other property. Um, and then leveraging sort of the space to maximize and get a size of array that would, would net zero the building. Um. You behind the meter? Uh, solar is the best because it's offsetting everything directly. Uh, so you basically, your solar is feeding yourself first and then, um, versus, say, like the iron rail project where it's really credits are being applied to different accounts. Those those are, those are just financial credits. So a two net zero building is that now it's geothermal. There's no more gas being burned on the property, the heat. And you're making your own electricity to do that. So you're zero. Um, the roof wasn't going to work. You only really have only small orientation points for south here and here. And that was the the size of the church, which would only be it wouldn't net zero the building. So it kind of defeats some of the purpose. Um, and then this roof does in 5 or 10 years, you're going to have to be shingled this roof. And you don't want solar on there that you have to pull off to do that. It's it gets expensive to kind of pull off and put back on. Um, and ground mount really wasn't an option, you know, Especially, you know, given historic district. So this is kind of what we had to work with. We talked about stuff in the back, which is is really tight back here with all these trees. And you don't have to start taking down trees, which would affect a butters. Um, and so, so that's kind of where we felt the best spot was, um, that would fit for the project.

00:47:58,667	S7:
Thank you. That's very clear. Is there a world where, instead of this being the horizontal rectangle I'm looking at for it to be a vertical rectangle? I mean, like, flip it 90 degrees or whatever, so that.

00:48:15,200	S9:
You won't do.

00:48:16,100	S7:
This. I'm asking this is because I am fully in agreement with the gentleman who made the comments earlier. Um, we must move towards the master plan and making us all, uh, you know, like green. However, there are people in the town who aren't of my mindset, and I want to prepare all of us for the inevitability of people saying this doesn't look good. So if we can make it as less as invisible from the street as possible is why I'm asking the question. It's not because I don't want the project, it's because I'm just trying to protect the project to go forward as smoothly as possible.

00:49:01,767	S12:
So you actually won't. I'm going to show you the renderings, which will show the tilt. This is actually going to be tilted. It'll be tilted down from from from from back to front to back here. Um, and so I'm going to pull this over. Let's see. Does that switch your view or do I get to hit something different.

00:49:17,667	S3:
Yes.

00:49:18,000	S9:
We see that. Yeah.

00:49:19,100	S12:
You see the binder okay.

00:49:20,300	S9:
Yes.

00:49:21,000	S12:
So, you know, obviously you have this road access and there's nothing you can really block here that you're going to see this here, but so you won't actually see the panels because there'll be a slight tilt here down towards the south facing sun, sunlight to pick up all the sunlight back here. Um, and, and uh, and so that's and we're working hard. We think we actually may be able to eliminate a stanchion. So there would be really only two poles. Um, but that's, that's the view that would cover this, this row of parking in this, this back parking area section from from Main Street. And then, uh, we kind of have a side view from the from the fire police area, which is that they're coming in from this way.

00:50:07,567	S7:
I love the renderings. Thank you. I reviewed them before the meeting. I, I love the project. I again, I'm just thinking about the naysayers and it's fully visible from the street. It's not it doesn't look good. Um, I would vote yes for it, but I'm thinking about getting this to be a yes for an overwhelming majority of our neighbors.

00:50:31,467	S6:
So I have a quick question too. Um, what was the explanation for why it couldn't go on the roof like the church?

00:50:41,567	S12:
Yeah, so two reasons. One is, um, the roof has got to be replaced at some point in the next five years. So if you try to do that now and add in the cost of the roof, it hurts the project. Um, so the roofs are from 2007. So, so probably have a 20 or 25 year life. Um, and if you don't put solar up and then have to pull it down five years later because it's just that gets costly from an install. Uh, and then you also from a south facing orientation, which is coming from this way, you really can't put it on these flanks. If you look at how the church did it, it just was on these pieces here, these little pieces here on the on the back building, because it had the proper orientation. And that would be a very small project, probably similar to the church size project, 22 kW. It'd be a quarter of the size of this. So you wouldn't be net zero in your building, could you?

00:51:30,767	S6:
Could you put.

00:51:31,467	S1:
It be that during your building?

00:51:33,601	S12:
I'm sorry.

00:51:34,367	S1:
You will not be doing your building.

00:51:36,567	S9:
I tried to just.

00:51:37,567	S12:
Do a little bit on the roof. It would be not enough power.

00:51:41,167	S6:
If you did, if you needed more. Could you go to that little structure that they just built in the back? Uh, that that little. Is that our. Is that the town's property? That new shed up on the hill?

00:51:55,000	S3:
Are you talking about? Yeah, the on one. The upper lot. I think that.

00:51:59,567	S9:
Was too.

00:51:59,968	S3:
Far away. Bill, I don't want to speak out of turn. Bill, did you say the upper lot?

00:52:04,467	S12:
This was this this year?

00:52:07,000	S3:
Yeah, I think that is it. The upper lot. They're the non one.

00:52:09,968	S9:
Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

00:52:12,267	S6:
And the non one can't have any any on it. Looks like it gets some sun there.

00:52:17,367	S12:
This is shaded quite a bit. Plus it's small. So you start. It starts becoming very difficult. And then you have to still get the wires back to here and integrate it into the building. Um.

00:52:29,167	S1:
Michael, you have your hand up.

00:52:30,868	S9:
Yeah. Um.

00:52:32,567	S4:
Just a couple of things I, I, I'm sympathetic to Bonnie's comments just about, you know, even though as much as I'm for this, um, from an energy standpoint and a net zero standpoint, um, and I understand the restrictions you have in terms of citing it because I do net zero school. So I it's a similar problem. I think the, the issue I have and I'm playing architect here is the, the way the, the design of it, the design looks like it's a gas station. And so I think that that is what people are going to see. They're going to see this as a center, you know, center pylon mounted gas station canopy. And so I think to me, I would if this looked more like it was a farm stand structure or something that at least had, you know, calm six columns instead of three center columns. I think that would be a much easier sell in terms of like, oh, it's putting up a kind of shade structure that is for the town or something like that. Otherwise, I just I feel like there's going to there'll be a lot of negative reaction to this as design. I understand it's more efficient to do that this way. But I think and, you know, and that's just kind of my feeling on this, this one. And I understand that you need that this amount of area to run it. So it's not like you can and you can't really piecemeal it. So I don't know if design has been a factor in, in the consideration of how this is being implemented or is it just an engineering solution? Because I think being in a historic district design should be considered as one of the primary drivers of this, not just an energy solution.

00:54:18,267	S8:
I agree.

00:54:20,000	S5:
Yeah, that was my thought too. And in the last meeting we did ask if there's anything you could do to make it. um, look more attractive. Um, and also think about landscaping that might block the view of it from the road.

00:54:37,267	S9:
Yeah.

00:54:37,567	S12:
So we could like.

00:54:39,267	S9:
The.

00:54:39,667	S12:
Owner's control contingency in there so that the town could just select what kind of landscaping they want. It would probably be along this edge here. Um, that that could that could be part of it. But, um, I don't know how this gets built as a wooden structure, and.

00:54:58,767	S4:
It doesn't need to be wood, but it needs to look like it's more of a building that would be built in the town and not one that's on route one.

00:55:09,000	S1:
Yeah. You're right.

00:55:09,567	S9:
Next. I don't need to be talking.

00:55:11,000	S4:
About this, but I just think I think, I think if we consider this as part of, you know, we're trying to preserve the look of the town, design needs to be elevated as one of the components. And of course, I'm an architect, so I'm biased on this. But I think this it really needs to be considered as a serious component of energy solutions for them to be viable. And so it's just not about energy solutions, not engineering solutions about efficiency of spans and columns. It's about also about how people react to it and feel about it in the town.

00:55:44,367	S1:
So like the church next door, we greenlighted it. But that was pretty. That was the first solar project that we did. Well, the second excuse me, Bonnie's house has it, but, um, that they went to great lengths to make sure that the panels, the solar panels were on the back and you couldn't see them. So the church itself, there on the front, you can't see them. But they did an amazing job. Integrate it with the roof. And it's pretty, you know, it's pretty seamless where this is, um, it's pretty. It's in your face. Um, you've received other comments, so I can't say, but I did ask. Um, and I'm not a solar expert, although I live in a fully electric home. I drive an electric car. Um, other site considerations.

00:56:39,100	S1:
Where were those other site considerations?

00:56:43,400	S12:
Well, well, we we looked at the entire property of the town hall, and as I mentioned, this, and that was the only location that would work.

00:56:52,701	S4:
Does it does it have to be located on the property of the town hall? Or it could be. Are there other siting options, like, um, near the fire station or police station.

00:57:02,901	S1:
Or.

00:57:03,200	S9:
Down to.

00:57:05,501	S6:
DPW? There's tons of.

00:57:08,667	S12:
Well, if you want if you want the solar to be.

00:57:12,267	S6:
Oh, I know what you're saying. Okay.

00:57:13,701	S12:
I'm sorry it has to be on the property. I mean, you can't cross it right away. A town, you know, right away. A utility right.

00:57:20,667	S9:
Away.

00:57:22,100	S13:
What about the girl?

00:57:23,767	S4:
Why can't you press it right away?

00:57:27,000	S12:
Well, I'm saying you can't put it, like, across the street and run a wire to connect it behind your meter. You'd have to go over the utility lines, and then that'll be a sort of a net metered project, like iron rails.

00:57:39,501	S4:
You could.

00:57:40,000	S9:
You could probably.

00:57:40,868	S4:
Cable.

00:57:41,601	S5:
We do have some cable.

00:57:43,000	S9:
You can't. They will. And guess what. Oh, okay.

00:57:46,868	S12:
Right away.

00:57:48,200	S5:
I know we have some. I think we have existing generator that goes from the fire station to town hall. Um, but my question is, how what would the expected lifespan of this be? Because one of the things we could think about is temporarily allowing it for 20, 25 years, with the proviso that, you know, assuming that technology changes, this wouldn't necessarily need to be a permanent thing for the town.

00:58:17,868	S9:
Yeah.

00:58:18,467	S5:
By then there may be. you know, I think they're talking about solar fences and paint and all kinds of things that that could replace some of these more clunky things.

00:58:30,000	S9:
Yeah.

00:58:31,200	S12:
Uh, I it has a 20, 25 year probably lifespan. Um, so you could, you know, you're probably going to see, uh, modifications to a lot of systems that are getting aging out that, you know, with new technologies and panels and other things that are coming into play. They typically can get modified. Uh, so that certainly could be an option then. Um, and it wouldn't be a wasted investment.

00:58:56,200	S1:
Besides putting it up on the upper lot and, you know, taking down trees, which we don't want to do, but.

00:59:06,567	S1:
Is that an a viable option at all? I'm trying to I think we're trying to work with you, but as it stands right now.

00:59:16,367	S1:
The consensus does not in my opinion look great. And we, you know, we we asked you to come back with some of these answers and we're trying to work with you to, to see if there's other solutions we can come up with right now. And anybody else that may pop on for public input or Mr. Knowles or Mrs. Mason.

00:59:41,667	S11:
Um, could could I ask him a question? Yeah. Bill. Hi. Um, is there so design. So I'm here. I'm hearing it from Michael and everyone. Um, is there any way to modify the look and feel of it? From what we're. What, from the artists, from the rendition? Is there any way to improve? All right, so you could eliminate the middle column. So you got two columns. The scale is what it is. Quick question. Why is the scale what it is to to match the electric load of of the geothermal system.

01:00:23,167	S9:
Correct.

01:00:23,868	S11:
Right.

01:00:25,267	S12:
Okay.

01:00:26,167	S11:
Yeah. Um, is there anything aesthetically you can you could do to sort of improve its look and feel from the street? I mean, that's the concern is when I did this solar on my roof, it was I didn't have to go in front of this commission because it couldn't be seen from the street. Um, so I didn't have to go through historical, even though I'm here in this historical district. So I'm just wondering if there's anything at all design wise with your suppliers. Color, height, you know, anything at all.

01:01:04,767	S12:
Is there something that you recommend? Like is it color? Is is is my safe?

01:01:09,901	S1:
No. I mean, we came back to you. I mean, you're the expert in this.

01:01:13,367	S9:
Yeah.

01:01:13,868	S1:
I mean, make it seamless, Like the best thing would be put it on the roof, but you can't because it's going to be redone, you know? Hopefully the we have the money in the till to redo the roof when five years comes down the road. But I mean, I'm just googling right now images of, um, solo parking with solo parking panels, you know, in parking lots. And maybe that's just the restriction of the technology at the time. In five years, it might be completely different. Um.

01:01:45,367	S9:
Well.

01:01:46,367	S12:
Um, we didn't get into the renderings. You know, any, you know, any any landscaping. Um, but that that could certainly be done. I don't know if that would have would be acceptable enough at that point. Right. So if we can if we can row off all that in front of the.

01:02:07,701	S12:
In the grass area. Um, I mean, that limit a lot of you, but you still have, you know, you still come down the road. You, you know, the access road in. You can see down that.

01:02:21,868	S5:
Can we have the rendering back up.

01:02:25,868	S12:
So probably want to see the front one.

01:02:29,300	S5:
See the view from the road one.

01:02:33,567	S1:
Yeah I'll say I mean I know these are old you know relative effect. So soil collections within the district visible from the public way. Wood generally discouraged however relative how its relative the effect to the period of the dwellings. So I think that, you know, summarize Michael's point. That's what we're asking for.

01:02:57,467	S4:
I but I mean, some of the suggestions could be could it be a, you know, it could be a timber frame painted white with that, or it could be you could do this, a similar historic kind of, Um, more shed like building, but out of steel. I mean, I think steel is going to be probably your preference, but, um, you know, just something that I think we could say. Oh, that this looks like it could have been built of the era. Um, I think that's kind of my main concern. You know, I'm googling right now. I see, like, these. There's some, like, timber frame, kind of like pole barn type thing with solar on it, but, um.

01:03:43,367	S1:
Or is there a suggestion? I mean, I thought of like, okay, if the, if the to the roof needs a place in five years and that, you know, in five years is 2030, we still have ten years to go to do, um, to get to our goal of net zero. We can revisit it then.

01:04:04,901	S12:
Well, the only other factor, too, is that that right now the federal government is paying for over 25% of this project. Uh, unfortunately, that goes away. July 1st of 2026. So if we don't move forward with this in a fairly timely fashion here, it's not going to happen. Um, because then it probably wouldn't make then. Then the other committees won't approve it because it'll cost too much to the taxpayer.

01:04:32,701	S4:
What what's the provisions of that? You just have to have a signed contract. Or do you have to have a shovel in the ground?

01:04:38,467	S12:
Um, provision is, uh, if we give a signed contract by the end of the year, then we protect against some materials requirements for concerns of entity. But, um, if it's an EPC deal, engineer construction, which this would be, you just have to have 5% expended by July 4th, which would be, you know, design work that classifies that. So you actually have the shovel in the ground. Um, and then you have a couple of years to build it.

01:05:06,067	S9:
Our permit. Excuse me.

01:05:07,267	S1:
Michael, are just one year.

01:05:10,701	S9:
Yeah.

01:05:12,267	S3:
Okay, I'll just note for the minutes, the town administrator is also in attendance. Who just signed in for the questions for Steve. He's also here.

01:05:19,701	S6:
Thanks, John. Um, real quick, guys, can you hear me? Um, what about a different design? Can we break it up? I was just looking at different designs. Almost like the solar powered, um, street, um, parking lot lamp. So they just look up, they go up straight, and they're individual panels. I mean, just is there a way to create a different style than this?

01:05:51,100	S12:
Because the challenge becomes cost effectiveness. This is, you know, that's.

01:05:55,367	S9:
Okay.

01:05:56,067	S12:
Challenge.

01:05:57,567	S6:
This is the the most cost effective design there is.

01:06:05,701	S12:
Correct.

01:06:07,300	S9:
Okay.

01:06:09,100	S6:
Be interesting to see a couple others.

01:06:11,367	S5:
First question can. Could this be pushed back a little bit more so that it's over the that hill there and next to the Enon, whatever that thing is called the fire truck shed on one.

01:06:25,968	S3:
Yeah.

01:06:27,667	S5:
Um.

01:06:28,567	S9:
I mean, so.

01:06:30,167	S12:
One is I don't think that helps you visually. I don't I mean, I really think it buys you much. Um, but the other is you do get you do get the advantage of now you've got shaded parking. We probably are going to recommend EV charging on the stanchions. Um, so people could charge in there as well. Um, and, and so some of that is an appeal as well. And that's why some people are okay with, with canopy because it functions as, as sort of a weather shelter as well. Um, yeah. And I don't know how forgetting how steep. That's probably not to scale how steep that hill is. If you start like where it would like dig into the hills where you can almost like walk down the hill and walk right up on onto the solar canopy. At some point it gets too close and then you have to fence it because you can't have people there. Solar panels. Um, so.

01:07:26,567	S5:
It doesn't fit.

01:07:27,400	S8:
Again. Historic district. It needs. The design needs to change. It doesn't fit in to our district. What if we're acting like a good neighbor and we put solar panels on the one? A museum and the town hall? What about that?

01:07:46,200	S5:
I actually have a lot more concerns about anything on those historic buildings than freestanding. That doesn't have to be permanent.

01:07:55,367	S7:
Is that because of weight, Kirsten, or are there other reasons?

01:07:59,501	S13:
I think you put the buildings there.

01:08:02,567	S8:
No, I'm talking about the new part of the Wenham Museum, not the old part. The part that you can't.

01:08:07,901	S5:
Right. Well, we have nothing to do with the one in museum. We don't own it. That's not our property. We don't have any control there.

01:08:14,300	S13:
Um, but.

01:08:14,801	S8:
Maybe we could be a good neighbor, and I don't know. But that structure does not fit in the one in historic district.

01:08:23,767	S7:
They also desperately like there. Well, actually. Never mind. Uh, forget what I said.

01:08:32,000	S1:
So is there I want to sort of. We're going to keep going around in circles. Um, anybody from the committee or from the public that would like to weigh in and ask any more questions.

01:08:44,167	S3:
And raise your hand, please, from the public if you have any further comments.

01:08:48,567	S1:
And then let's stop sharing so I can see everyone's face, if you don't mind. Thanks.

01:08:55,167	S3:
I am seeing no hands raise their noses.

01:08:57,968	S9:
Yeah. Oh. I'm sorry.

01:08:59,467	S11:
Yeah. I'm sorry. My hand raising isn't working here. Um, just just quickly. So, um, Bill, there was a comment about the longevity of it. So it's a it's a 20. Pretty much 20 to 25 year lifespan. Um, it would be, uh, I assume, decommissioned at that point. I mean, we're talking I guess it's short. Not really short term, but it is kind of short term. I wonder if just that comment that somebody on the commission made around around that, the fact that it would be decommissioned after.

01:09:38,701	S9:
It.

01:09:38,801	S12:
Would likely be repealed. Right. So it still has, you know, it could live it has a longevity. It's the panels are about 25 years, maybe 30. Um, but but you know, definitely over 20. So let's call it 25. And then by then with technology there's so much, you know, they're bigger, you know, and they produce more power. You might be able to reduce the size of it to give the same output type of thing.

01:10:04,701	S7:
So write in the mindset of a local voter. I believe that information is, you know, like that's like bullet Z. We just want to make this a project that people will say that this is obviously a good choice for our town. So the 20 year thing that I, I find it relevant for us, but for the like public presentation absolutely irrelevant.

01:10:36,000	S11:
I agree.

01:10:40,667	S1:
Anybody else? Steve, do you have any comments or questions?

01:10:44,267	S9:
Lisa.

01:10:45,667	S3:
Oh, Lisa. Yep. Go ahead. Lisa.

01:10:47,267	S6:
Um. Hi, guys. Okay. This is my last ditch effort on the roof option. Why don't we get a solar company to bid us, uh, you know, solar paneling and work it into the cost of a new roof and kind of do keep with the traditional roof mount and get a new roof out of it. Can we finagle that with in some capacity and then, you know, kind of get a deal?

01:11:22,267	S12:
The the other challenge, the challenge you have for the it's too small, um, for the workable spaces of that roof. So it's not a, it's not going to net zero the, the town hall. Um, and.

01:11:39,567	S6:
Income, income, you know, and use that back building as well. Maybe do a combo.

01:11:45,467	S5:
Well also Lisa that there's the the clock is ticking on the, the financing but it wouldn't be enough and we wouldn't necessarily even approve it Either.

01:11:57,367	S6:
Okay. Okay.

01:11:59,000	S5:
Yeah.

01:12:00,767	S3:
Tom Starr, go ahead.

01:12:02,567	S10:
Hi. Thanks for. Recognize me. And, um, first I want to say, Robert, you know, I totally appreciate all the work you've done. Um, and, you know, it's outstanding. And, you know, I'm really torn on this, obviously, for, you know, any climate sustainable project. Energy saving. I'm totally for it. Right. Um, but I did want to clarify what I was saying earlier when I said that it could set a precedent when I met. Is not that because I think Bill mentioned this? Not that anybody would put a solar, um, you know, carport on their property, although those exist. I just googled it. Um, but that someone could push back if you're trying to protect the view, um, on their property, whatever they're doing in the back, whether it's a barn that's oversized or whatever, because you could say, look, if you're putting this steel eyesore behind the town hall, why can't I do x? Just playing devil's advocate there.

01:13:06,868	S7:
Yeah. Tom. Thank you. I mean, so I'm a vocal advocate for solar in the historic district. I have solar in my home. I'm lucky enough that I live on the Beverly side of Main Street, so it's not visible from the street, but for everyone opposite to me on the other side of Main Street, that's just an unfortunate thing that I believe is unfair. So to your point, yeah, it would set a precedent if we were to allow this carport or this canopy. Excuse me, that was totally visible. I am for it, everybody. I just want to be crystal clear. I would vote yes. I'm simply thinking about everyone else who will not be for it. And I want to be sensitive to the precedent that it does set. That's all. So I would love to for it to be more hidden behind town hall. And, uh. But. Tom. Tom. Sorry. I appreciate and I agree with everything you said.

01:14:02,367	S10:
Sorry. I just want to say that that's fine. I think if you could poll the town people and see where they stand on it, that would be really great. When I'm afraid of is you're going to get a real bad reaction if you go forward without checking first, you know?

01:14:17,367	S1:
But that's kind of the point of like, why is this? Why are we the first step? I mean, there's got to be so many factors that go into it. And they don't want the town doesn't want to make the time or the money investment to proceed.

01:14:28,868	S10:
Right?

01:14:29,167	S9:
Yeah.

01:14:29,601	S1:
Historic district says aesthetically it meets the guidelines by which we are charged with. And I to to your point, like you just heard the the prior, you know, applicant saying, well, we want to take this historic 1600s early 1700s house and duplicate the size and call the back part a barn. Well, you know, I lived my my my old house abuts that lot. I mean, they're beautiful properties. My house is, you know, way where the butcher. Right. And it's. Why wouldn't I want to do that next and connect it to the barn and double my value. Right. But I was never allowed to do that. You know, his Harriet said absolutely not. And so be it. So, you know, we're trying to protect the historic nature of one of them. That's our charge tonight, guys. So, um, I think I think if everybody's in agreement, I'd like to make a motion to vote on whether to proceed with putting, um, the parking podium solar project to proceed with it or not to proceed it. So make a motion to make that vote now.

01:15:45,167	S5:
Um, our motion to amend, I would, um. I. I don't think I could vote to support it how it looks right now, but I would love to see renderings and I would. I think I would support.

01:16:01,067	S1:
We asked for renderings and this is what we got.

01:16:05,367	S4:
Yeah, I guess I would say I would not I would not vote to support it as designed now. But if it was, in other words, if the intention of it was to be designed in a historic manner, I would entertain that as a as a structure, but not as designed now.

01:16:23,567	S5:
And I think it would be.

01:16:24,767	S9:
I don't know if.

01:16:25,100	S4:
That's an amendment.

01:16:25,868	S9:
To the vote or.

01:16:27,067	S5:
Yeah.

01:16:30,801	S5:
So I guess it would.

01:16:32,100	S13:
Do we want to.

01:16:33,467	S5:
If the town is able to do that or if it is what it is?

01:16:38,567	S2:
Well, yes.

01:16:39,267	S4:
Steve.

01:16:40,367	S2:
Um, I just curious, what.

01:16:43,000	S4:
Would a historic solar panel look.

01:16:45,100	S9:
Like?

01:16:46,567	S4:
It's just more this. It's more the structure itself. So right now it looks like the stanchions for a canopy of gas station. So if it was had more the look of like say a pole barn or a farm stand or something, or, you know, some something that would be known in the 1800s had a double cantilever roof structure. But they did have, you know, like a more like a barn structure that would be open air. So that would, you know, similar to what's at the, um, the food project or something like that, that, that canopy. And so and even if it was a shed roof, does the shed that, that kept with a solar performance, I think that would go that would be a much easier sell to the residents of the town than the way it is going now. So I think there is a design solution here. It's just not we're not seeing it right now.

01:17:44,100	S3:
Kelly I know, can I just ask real quick? I know time is a little bit of the essence here. If we do work to get something, I'm not. You know, I'll check in. Can we rearrange a quicker meeting than sort of the monthly meeting we've been doing? Just trying to keep that December 31st deadline, just, you know, conscious to everyone. Is that something that we can rearrange? I know sometimes this commission meets a little bit sooner than the one month time.

01:18:09,100	S5:
We could tie it into that, um, the site visit, and then we would also be able to see the site, you know, if we met in person at Town Hall, we could also then look at the the site ourselves.

01:18:24,467	S7:
Uh, yes. I'm. I'll make myself available anytime. Joe. That works for Kelly, Kirsten, Mike and, uh, Mimi and Lisa. Uh, just to answer Steve very quickly, if it could just be, like, as little visible from the street as possible, that I believe would match as closely to the consensus of the historic commission as humanly possible. Sorry, Joe. Back to you.

01:18:52,367	S3:
No, that's that's okay. That's that's all I had. Steve, did you have any other comments you wanted to make?

01:18:59,767	S9:
No. I mean, I guess it's.

01:19:01,801	S14:
Just generally that the town is, you know, made a commitment to go, you know, carbon neutral by 2040 and is now pursuing at this town coming up, coming to town meeting the new designation from the state commit carbon. Excuse me climate leader community which further, um, expedites that timeline. And, you know, I mean, it's just it would be it's going to be very difficult to achieve that goal and to have it fit within historic regulations. I feel like, you know, it's kind of like to find a way to blend, you know, modern and green initiatives with. Yeah, antique or historic looking thing. I'm not. I guess I'm not. I'm not sure how we're going to achieve both is what, what I'm trying to say. And I think the community needs to consider that, particularly as you're rewriting your guidelines.

01:20:00,667	S7:
I agree, Steve, but in in I'm thinking I would vote yes on this whole thing. I'm just thinking about every other Wenham resident who might come to town meeting and think, this is a ridiculous thing. I just I want this to be as beautiful as possible so that it's an obvious yes for everybody, that's all.

01:20:19,000	S4:
Yeah, I guess, I guess, Steve, we're trying to find a middle ground. So this is not a way to stop the project, but as a way to get it. So everybody wins. And so I think if you, you know, the structure that the food project on March Road, that's a, you know, an open air structure, you could you know, you could even make that a mono roof, but even make it out of steel but has six columns instead of three. I think that move alone, and it's not a major thing, and that could be redesigned fairly easily, would be a middle ground that I think would be a huge step in the right direction that some, you know, we're not asking, you know, to make this as if, you know, there's no way we could have a solar canopy that was designed in 1740. Right? So this is kind of a middle ground for that.

01:21:08,067	S1:
I still I'm weighing in it now as of not as the chair, but I have a very hard time. This is going to set a precedent for other people saying, well, you've built this thing, right. To support our initiatives, I want to support my family and add 2000ft² to my historic home.

01:21:28,901	S13:
You know.

01:21:30,267	S1:
It's I'm just really worried about it. And design or not, you're still going to have something behind this, this hall and next to the one I'm historic museum, which is, you know, a part of our fabric, of our history. And unless you put a huge row of our bodies in front of it and completely hide it, I think we're going to we're going to get a lot of flack.

01:21:56,667	S1:
And I don't I don't see any designs or options that would may work, I don't know. I mean, Michael, you're you're the expert in and being, um, being an architect, um, and I why can't we. Is there any other options in town? Town owned land. Why can't we put it over an iron rail? Why can't we put it over for the food pantry? Not the food pantry with the on large row. I mean, is there other options?

01:22:22,667	S14:
We are putting one at Iron Rail. Um, but we have a lot of energy consumption to offset, and there's not really enough room to do so.

01:22:37,000	S7:
And Bill, did you say earlier that it must be on the property in order to service Town Hall? Is that right?

01:22:44,100	S12:
Well, um, the economics are best when it's behind the meter because you're offsetting, like, the utility distribution charges. And, um, it's a true net zero, right? So you're making your own power there. Other than that, it's a net metering credit situation where you're.

01:22:59,767	S1:
But then net, but you're still doing net zero if you have it somewhere else, which is the goal. Right. And then you the town gets its goal of going net zero even though it's not 100% net zero. And then we achieve our goal commission by keeping with the guidelines. Isn't that a win win situation?

01:23:19,567	S12:
Um, depending if they if they consider that net zero that's built off site, if you're building enough stuff off, off property to offset the usages. Um, that's still debatable whether that's an official net zero. But, um.

01:23:34,701	S1:
We already put geothermal and that's a pretty big investment. I mean, that's.

01:23:38,367	S9:
I mean, yeah, it's.

01:23:39,467	S13:
Closer to net.

01:23:40,367	S7:
Zero than we are now.

01:23:41,901	S13:
Right?

01:23:43,100	S12:
Yeah. You reduced. You reduce your carbon. You reduce your your energy usage. It's part of the project. We got rid of that big compressor that was outside. That was, you know, you had to look at as well. Um, and we did get the grant based on the fact that we were going to try to net zero this building. So, um, I know Steve's trying to get climate leaders, and I guess they'd have to have a good reason why they didn't go with the solar as part of the $500,000 grant that that you got. And that doesn't rock the applecart with the climate leaders approach and all that stuff. Um, as long as the town made its best effort to try to do the solar, that was the obligation. So, um, we can I can see what the challenge is going to be. Um, you had more stanchions. You had more cost. That doesn't seem to. It seems that you block more spaces. Um, I don't know if wood can be built to hold this, but I hear lots of objections that I just. I'm not I'm not grabbing to something that works like, some say, put it on the roof, but then others say I wouldn't approve it if it's on the roof. Um, but, you know, plantings around it, you can only put those so high and then they can't go above it because you start shading the thing. Um. Uh, I don't know. I wish I knew, like, what would really do the trick, but it it seems like you don't really want it on the property. That's.

01:25:08,267	S13:
No.

01:25:08,567	S7:
Is it possible for it to be, uh, instead of, like, horizontally rectangular? Vertically rectangular? I heard you say there's a property behind it that is obstructing that, but that's just the one thing. It's that, again, if you put this in front of me on a ballot, I would vote yes on it. I'm thinking about everyone else in town who's going to say no. And it's not. It doesn't look good if it could be vertically rectangular behind the building as much as possible. Even if it shaved off a few feet, that would be palatable to. I can't imagine someone that wouldn't be palatable to me.

01:25:47,968	S12:
I'm having trouble visualizing that. You're saying that?

01:25:51,901	S13:
I'm just saying instead.

01:25:53,167	S7:
Of.

01:25:53,467	S9:
Like, you.

01:25:54,000	S4:
Mean rotated by 90.

01:25:55,200	S9:
Degrees on.

01:25:56,000	S4:
Sight?

01:25:57,000	S5:
I think you run into some fire truck issues.

01:26:01,167	S7:
I'm not talking about being on number one. I'm just talking about, like, when I'm walking back of town hall.

01:26:08,000	S13:
Yes.

01:26:09,200	S5:
No. I think emergency vehicles getting through might be an issue.

01:26:13,467	S13:
But I heard.

01:26:14,367	S7:
I heard.

01:26:14,901	S13:
Bill being.

01:26:15,667	S5:
Closer to the buildings. Not necessarily good. Um, I would, Steve, if I were you, I would really pitch the financial benefit to the town. Um. What is.

01:26:27,467	S13:
It?

01:26:28,367	S5:
Hold on.

01:26:29,267	S13:
Yes, sir.

01:26:30,701	S5:
Now, how much is this going to cost? How much are we going to save? Is that jobs that we're saving, etc.? This shaded area has a lot of potential for use for town wide events as well. We could absolutely use some shady rain proof area for some of the events that we have. In addition, just regular parking. The, um, I didn't see any rendering of the, um, uh, you know, the power source for cars, the charging stations that should be on this as well if we're going to be approving it. And it may be as simple as just some wooden cladding over the steel, you know, like just this just looks. I think Michael said it really well, it looks like a gas station and we don't that's not the look we're looking for in front of an old historic town hall. Now behind the fire station and police station, right across the street. That is not real historic right now. So and that is, as far as I can tell, just full sun. So that's something the town might want to look at as well. And as far as I know, there is some kind of cabling between the two buildings.

01:27:47,367	S13:
So I mean.

01:27:49,300	S5:
Enough or possible, but just something to consider that I don't think anyone's going to be mad if we're adding solar to those buildings because they're already not particularly gorgeous.

01:28:00,801	S13:
But Bill.

01:28:01,367	S1:
You looked at other options and no other options were viable.

01:28:05,467	S9:
So we didn't we didn't.

01:28:06,367	S12:
Look at putting it on those buildings now.

01:28:15,367	S7:
How can we best respect your time, Bill, and go forward? Still seeking options while not just like going around in circles, I.

01:28:27,000	S12:
I think I think we probably should table the vote. And, uh, you know, I'll huddle with Steve and Joe and and some of the engineers. And if we think there's something, we'll come back. If there's nothing that it won't have to.

01:28:41,400	S9:
Um.

01:28:42,300	S12:
Yeah.

01:28:43,100	S1:
I mean, the whole concept of, you know, HTC has to prove is to tick everything else. That's all we have to do is approve it, aesthetically or not. All the other stuff is not our responsibility. And the this commission should not feel responsibility responsible.

01:29:00,200	S9:
Correct.

01:29:01,167	S1:
Making the town go green.

01:29:02,367	S3:
So that's correct. It'd have to go through fin com and select board. That's correct.

01:29:05,267	S9:
Kelly.

01:29:05,567	S1:
So we're just one part of the wheel, but we're the first part of the wheel.

01:29:10,200	S3:
And so I believe town meeting Steve can correct me if I'm wrong. But this would also have to go to town meeting as well. So there's definitely yes for the financing. Right.

01:29:19,567	S14:
And yeah, I mean, you know, ultimately, you know, if it doesn't pass the aesthetics test here, it won't go any further. In general, if through, you know, through discussions, we have, you know, buy in from, uh, you know, everybody. Uh, so we really just need the aesthetics to, to go through. It's not a financial it's really not a financial proposal. It doesn't really save money at the end of the day or won't until 20 years out. The idea of this is that it's budget neutral and we'll net meter or carbon, you know, make it carbon neutral. The energy consumption that the town hall uses, uh, and that's one of the criteria we need to meet by 2040 as it stands.

01:30:09,167	S1:
So then just put it, you know, then let's use another area.

01:30:14,200	S14:
Of a party putting I mean, we have a lot of buildings to net meter. We have the police, we have fire, we have the DPW facility. So the DPW facility, we're putting a large canopy system down there that probably won't quite net meter that, and that's taking up a significant amount of land. The town's town owned land.

01:30:39,868	S1:
And is that mine? All right. So I'm going to make a vote, a motion just to table the discussion. We'll figure out. We'll we'll regroup when we regroup with the 153 Main Street. If that's amenable to you, Bill.

01:30:57,667	S9:
You could let.

01:30:58,100	S12:
Us know what date that that gets selected.

01:30:59,868	S1:
Yeah, well, we'll check with you when it will. The the the committee will circle back and see what date works for everybody. And then, um, we'll make sure that it works for you and. And 153 applicant.

01:31:12,000	S13:
Um, second.

01:31:14,267	S1:
And then it'll be a public notice that anybody else that wants to come and talk is tonight because your comments are valid and well received. Um, There'll be a public comment as well.

01:31:25,067	S9:
Okay.

01:31:26,567	S12:
Thank you for your time in the discussion.

01:31:29,167	S3:
Thank you Bill. Thanks for your time.

01:31:31,000	S9:
Yep. Okay.

01:31:34,267	S13:
Okay.

01:31:35,367	S5:
I'm not sure.

01:31:36,267	S9:
There's a vote on the table.

01:31:37,467	S13:
We don't we don't need to vote. I don't know. We need a vote.

01:31:40,400	S5:
I'm not.

01:31:40,868	S13:
Sure, but.

01:31:41,367	S5:
We go ahead and do it. No.

01:31:42,868	S9:
Okay.

01:31:44,000	S13:
Okay.

01:31:45,200	S9:
Yeah.

01:31:45,968	S3:
But just. We will try to meet pretty soon, I guess. Right inside of the, you know, instead of the November meeting. Yeah. Okay.

01:31:53,367	S9:
Um, great.

01:31:55,801	S3:
I think that's all we had.

01:31:58,000	S13:
All right.

01:31:59,667	S1:
Thanks, Mr. Knowles. Thanks, Mr. Star. You can stay on. We just sort of close out the meeting and. Yeah, I don't think there's anything else that we need to know. Is that correct? There's nothing else on the agenda.

01:32:09,367	S9:
No, I don't.

01:32:10,968	S3:
Mr. Carson.

01:32:12,000	S5:
No. I'm sorry. Not yet.

01:32:13,767	S9:
Okay, okay.

01:32:14,968	S11:
Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Kelly. Thanks, everyone.

01:32:17,267	S13:
Thanks, everybody.

01:32:19,200	S9:
Thanks. Yep.

01:32:21,868	S13:
So.