00:01:16,767	S1:
Hello and welcome again to time's Past. My name is Edmund Josephs. Today our guest is Mr. Francis Newhall of Beverly, Massachusetts. Hello, Mr. Newhall. Nice to have you on the program today. Thanks. Um, you were born here in Hamilton in the year of 1908. That's right. And, uh, that would entitle you to be 80 years of age today. Well, that's that's wonderful. And you grew up down in Asbury Grove.

00:01:45,300	S2:
And the Ashby Grove area. Not actually in the Grove. We lived out on Highland Street, about halfway between the Grove and the Wenham line.

00:01:53,868	S1:
I see. And your your family is the de family of Hamilton. Could you tell us something about. About your grandfather where you grew up with and.

00:02:03,400	S2:
Well, I, uh, they ran a farm there on Highland Street, about a 20 acre spread there, and it was a working farm. And they raised seven children on it. And.

00:02:19,167	S2:
As I say, I spent, uh, the farm was a place where they got their living from. And since they passed away, because that was a good many years ago, that's been developed into housing lots.

00:02:32,501	S1:
And where exactly was that done in the Grove area? Mr..

00:02:36,100	S2:
Well, as you as you head out of the grove and head toward one of them, it would be on the left, uh, probably half a mile down the street from the grove.

00:02:44,501	S1:
Not too.

00:02:44,901	S2:
Far?

00:02:45,367	S1:
No, not you were able to get. Get there and back and enjoy your young days down there. Yeah. Now, um, you, uh, lived there until you were about five years old. You were telling me that.

00:02:58,067	S2:
I lived on the farm until I was five years old. Yeah, because my mother and father were working in Lynn and GE at the GE. I see my grandparents brought me up, but even after I, I went with my parents at age five, I still spent a lot of time on the farm.

00:03:13,067	S1:
I see. And you went to school here in Hamilton and the first few grades? Yeah. Tell us where.

00:03:19,067	S2:
The Old South School on Railroad Avenue, where the old age housing is now.

00:03:24,000	S1:
I.

00:03:24,200	S2:
See. And, uh, would you like to know something about the school? Sure. South school.

00:03:28,601	S1:
Surely.

00:03:30,200	S2:
Well, there were two annexes out in the yard, and the main building was central of the lot, and it was about a one acre plot there, the school yard and buildings. So the first annex you went to, the first and second grade, then you went over the other side of the building. You went to the third and fourth, then the main building. The first floor had four big classrooms. That was grades five, six, seven and eight, and the second floor had four big classrooms nine, ten, 11, and 12. So the whole thing was all combined in that one area. However, my first recollections of school here in town, there were three other schools which were probably 3 or 4 grades, maybe six grades. There was one in East Hamilton, which is now the American Legion Post.

00:04:20,667	S1:
Oh one School.

00:04:21,300	S2:
Street. Yeah. And then there was another one on Bay road, just past the old and not all, but the Myopia Hunt Club polo practice field. And then there was another one up on the back road to Ipswich. But they were all closed eventually. And the kids in the outskirts were brought into the South School.

00:04:44,267	S1:
I see.

00:04:45,000	S2:
But then later on that was the name was changed to the Jonathan Lampson School.

00:04:50,100	S1:
Well, speaking of Mr. Lampson. Now, he and your uncle John Mann were the bus drivers. Is that correct? For the in the school district?

00:04:59,167	S2:
My uncle had the bus contract for good many years and there were only two buses cover the whole town. One did half of the town, and John Mann hired a driver to do half of the town with his bus. And then Johnny Lampson did the other half of town, and he drove the bus himself.

00:05:19,000	S1:
Now, this fellow, John Lampson, was the father of our Katherine Nickerson of Hamilton.

00:05:25,767	S2:
And he had a farm up on the road to Ipswich. I see. I think that farm was eventually bought by Pingree. That became became part of Pingree Holdings up there.

00:05:35,567	S1:
Right, right. We interviewed Bill Heitz, interviewed Katherine Nickerson, and she had some interesting stories to tell us about the farm days up there and up on the Pingree grounds. In fact, the bus company and I now is still in the Lampson family. They serviced the Hamilton district.

00:05:52,467	S2:
Yeah. That's right. He's got quite a string of buses, hasn't he?

00:05:55,801	S1:
Yes, he does quite a fleet of them. Yeah. Now, you did move away from Hamilton for a bit. You tell us about that.

00:06:02,400	S2:
Yeah. After the third grade, we moved in rapid succession to Beverley Land in Swampscott. Then after about two years, we came back and my parents built a home on Highland Street on a plot of land that my grandmother gave my mother.

00:06:19,167	S1:
Near.

00:06:19,467	S2:
The farm. Near the farm. It was really part of the farm. And that was about 1918.

00:06:26,000	S1:
And you were able to continue and finish your schooling right here in town.

00:06:29,367	S2:
I went back in about the fifth grade or sixth grade, and then I finished right through high school.

00:06:34,767	S1:
And in those days they had, um, high school. Hamilton High School was right here in Hamilton. It was not a regional high school, nor did the kids.

00:06:43,167	S2:
Want to go to the part of the South School.

00:06:45,267	S1:
I see. And you might tell us something about this place that we're at right now, which is the Hamilton Town Hall, brings back a few memories to you.

00:06:53,300	S2:
Yeah. That's true. Uh, back in the old days, they used to hold dances in here. And, of course, the high school and junior high school graduation was always held in here. As I told you, when I graduated from the ninth grade, we had six years of grammar school, three years of junior high, and three years of high school when you graduated from the junior high. They put us out here in the hall in the front, the couple of front rows.

00:07:20,667	S1:
Just on the other side of this partition here.

00:07:22,367	S2:
Yeah. And when he graduated from high school, we came up on the stage at, uh, and of course, there was a senior dance and there was a senior reception.

00:07:34,267	S1:
Higher the grade, the higher the elevation in sitting.

00:07:37,200	S2:
Yeah, right.

00:07:38,300	S1:
You know.

00:07:39,267	S2:
Because when I graduated in 1924, there were only 13 in the graduating class.

00:07:44,100	S1:
13. And the whole town of Hamilton. right? Yeah. And at that point in time, we did not deal with the Wenham children or any.

00:07:51,567	S2:
Know all the youngsters when I went to.

00:07:53,701	S1:
High school. Hamilton children. Yeah. Well class of class of 13 people. Oh my goodness.

00:07:59,901	S2:
Six boys and seven girls.

00:08:02,567	S1:
This would have been the graduating class of 19 2424. Yep.

00:08:07,300	S2:
And I think we did pretty well up until the the first 50 years out of high school, we were all pretty lucky.

00:08:14,567	S1:
To.

00:08:14,701	S2:
Keep in touch. We had several reunions. Yeah. But after 50 years, things started going downhill. And right now, I think we're doing pretty well with still five of us left. That's great. Five that I know of. Now, there's a girl down in Maine. I don't know whether she's still alive or not, but I know if she is still alive. There are five of us, uh, three girls and two boys.

00:08:38,167	S1:
Christmas cards and things like that. You send each other? Yeah. That's good. Yeah. That's good. That's terrific. Well, then after high school, I see here by our notes here that you worked out of town quite a ways. Out of town?

00:08:51,467	S2:
Yeah. When I graduated, I worked in Philadelphia and I worked in Brooklyn, New York, and then I worked in New York City for about three years. But that wasn't for me. I got homesick.

00:09:04,501	S1:
I couldn't couldn't stay away from the hometown.

00:09:06,400	S2:
So I came back to I came back to Hamburg in 1927, and I stayed here till I got married in 1937. And then I went to, uh, I went to Beverly to live the first year, and then we hopped over to Swampscott for a couple of years, and I came back to Beverly, and we got to able to pick up a piece of land. We built our own home. We've been there ever since, and it was good because it's only about a half a mile from the United Shore. And that's where I worked.

00:09:32,367	S1:
You went to work there in 1927, I see, and retired in.

00:09:36,100	S2:
1970.

00:09:36,868	S1:
1970. So you've had some wonderful years of retirement and yeah, hopefully many more.

00:09:41,667	S2:
I've been.

00:09:42,000	S1:
Lucky. Yes, indeed you have. We're going to talk twofold here. We're going to talk a little bit about the Asbury Grove, in particular, the Hamilton fire of the Asbury Grove fire of 1927. And we're going to go down to Depot Square and view some pictures of the area down there. But first of all, I think I might ask you a little bit about maybe your memories of playing, growing up, playing, having fun as a boy down in the Asbury Grove area. Do you have any of those fond memories to tell?

00:10:14,767	S2:
Yeah, the Asbury Grove was my home away from home because my uncle was a superintendent up there, and his wife was the she ran the post office. I didn't know what he would call her a postmaster, a postmistress, probably a postmistress. And not only did I have a lot of fun up there, I worked up there a lot.

00:10:36,801	S1:
Uh, your uncle put you to work, did he?

00:10:38,567	S2:
Yeah, I worked for him, and I. I work for people in the Grove. You know, there was no water in any of the cottages, but there were several pumps scattered around the grove, probably 10 or 12 of them. And it was good water up there, too. But people were fussy about lugging their own water. So I carry a water carrier. I had several customers, and I would carry water for them in the morning and carry water for them in the evening.

00:11:06,367	S1:
What? What did they give you or what did you charge them for that kind of a service?

00:11:09,467	S2:
Well, some of them paid me a dollar a week.

00:11:11,400	S1:
Well good money. Yeah. Those days.

00:11:13,601	S2:
Those days.

00:11:14,200	S1:
Yeah.

00:11:14,467	S2:
Yeah. Yeah.

00:11:15,868	S1:
And before we talk about lighting the lamps, what you'll do in a minute, uh, your, um, your uncle John Mann, we have a picture, one picture of him that survived through the years. It's not in very good shape, but we're going to show it here.

00:11:31,067	S2:
It's kind of kind of dim.

00:11:32,767	S1:
Yeah. And he, with his fellow workers, is standing, I believe, third from the left in the picture and they all look rather severe. I mean, they they the gentlemen, they they look rough and ready, which of course they were, but they all, uh, uh, what kind of severe was he? A that kind of a fellow. Did you enjoy him as an uncle?

00:11:52,868	S2:
Well, I liked him. I think he liked me because we had we had a relationship over the years, a good many years. And, uh, he lived he was a he was a strict man, but he was fair.

00:12:08,767	S1:
Demanded an honest day's work. He would tell.

00:12:10,567	S2:
Me. Yeah. That's right.

00:12:12,067	S1:
Yeah. And he lived until you were an older person. And you knew him then as a as a grown up. Uh.

00:12:18,901	S2:
Well, I understand that he and his brother, he had a brother, Jesse, and they came down here from Shapley, Maine. Now, I don't know what year that was, but it seems to me that those two men were always here in Hamilton, and they were both carpenters and builders, and they came down here and they worked at that trade. So carpenter and building. But but then he got into a, he got into a lot of things that they all paid off. And I think at the time he passed away, he was probably a pretty rich man. I don't know. He never told me how much he had. I know he left it all to his daughter. They had they had one girl. Now he, uh he passed away in 1952 and he was 88 years old. And he he filled that job at the Grove up until he was on the out of there 4 or 5 years at the most before, excuse me, before he died. So he was active right up to the end. In fact, when he passed away, he had a bad spell one night and they loaded him into a station wagon and they took him down a cable hospital, and he was gone by sunup. That was beautiful. I mean, no.

00:13:24,767	S1:
That's the way.

00:13:25,100	S2:
To do it. No long, uh, painful death.

00:13:29,200	S1:
And, uh, quite an elderly age to that. He achieved 88 and he was the superintendent in the Grove and Mr. Theodore Johnson probably would have succeeded him. Is that correct?

00:13:38,567	S2:
That's right. He came. He came after him.

00:13:40,801	S1:
My friend and co-producer standing over here, Bill Heitz, has interviewed Mr. Johnson. In fact, before we see this program, we will have seen the program with with Mr. Johnson, who tells quite an interesting tale about the Grove. So we will won't dwell on the on that, uh, as much. Uh, now lighting the lamps down in Asbury Grove. Uh, the kerosene lamps, I am told. Can you tell us something about that as you used to do it?

00:14:08,868	S2:
Well, I think when the back in the real old days that the all the avenues were lit by just oil lamps, and these lamps sit in a glass case and there's an oil lamp inside. They had a bale on the top of them that you could hang them on a bracket. And the bottom there was a round cylinder that was either welded on there I don't know how I was attached, but you could set it on a post. So some of them set on posts. But over the years, the oil lamps were replaced by street lights. And they had a very active group of ladies in the grove. The Ladies Aid Society and these ladies worked all summer with the.

00:14:56,367	S2:
Bake sales, probably rummage sales, we'd call them today. And entertainment in the Tabernacle every Saturday night.

00:15:04,767	S1:
Kept it lively and.

00:15:05,601	S2:
Interesting. I suppose anything would make a buck. And all that money was given for changing from the oil lamps to the electric lights. I imagine probably the Advent Golf Corporation must have thrown some in. You know, I don't think. I don't think the ladies did at all.

00:15:24,267	S1:
Were there any gas lamps over here in Hamilton?

00:15:26,601	S2:
Not that I know of.

00:15:28,200	S1:
So I was reading in Beverley. That's when they started, 68 1868 at night with gas lit lamps over on Cabbage Street. But they probably didn't do that here that we know of anyway, they may have.

00:15:39,267	S2:
I had that job for a couple of years, and there was about 40 lights to take care of at that time.

00:15:46,300	S1:
What was it worth to you monetarily?

00:15:48,767	S2:
That was a good job. $30 a month.

00:15:51,100	S1:
Fantastic.

00:15:52,100	S2:
Very good.

00:15:52,868	S1:
Yeah.

00:15:53,868	S2:
But there was a down at the edge of the swamp there. There was an oil house, and I'd go there in the morning and pick up the oil. And there was a little four wheel cart. Pick up the oil and the wicks and the chimneys that might have to be replaced, and some cleaning rags to do the chimneys, and I'd make the rounds. I never had any help in the morning. But some of my pals used to like to go around with me at night and light them up. So I'd give them a handful of matches, and we'd start out on our bikes and we'd light the lamps in very short time.

00:16:28,667	S1:
They trusted you young fellows with with matches.

00:16:31,000	S2:
And when they go into the superintendent's house and pick up a bunch of matches and the way we'd go, and that job was from about the middle of June to the middle of September. Then the the lamps were all taken off and stored in the, down in the oil house.

00:16:53,567	S1:
So that was a good, good paying job for us. And you enjoyed it and probably have the distinction of being the last surviving lamplight.

00:17:02,000	S2:
I don't imagine there's too many people in the area that ever took care of oil lamps.

00:17:06,567	S1:
Oh, sure.

00:17:08,167	S2:
It was good. And then it was mean to if you ran into a storm. Yeah, I wasn't fussy about lighting them. If we had a terrific thunderstorm about five, 5 or 6:00.

00:17:21,567	S1:
We'll talk about those in just a moment. Quickly. Here before we go on. We missed. I missed asking you about Hamilton Grove. Down here, I believe it was called the Foot of Asbury Park. Hamilton Park? Yeah. You played in that area. Or go up down next door to it?

00:17:37,300	S2:
Yeah, there was a tennis court. There was one tennis court there, and there was two tennis courts in the Grove. So we played quite a lot of tennis courts. Uh, croquet was a pretty good game in those days, too.

00:17:48,167	S1:
We have a picture right here that we're going to put on.

00:17:50,467	S2:
And the in the grove, there was a place prepared and all leveled off and everything, and they had boards around it, you know, and, uh.

00:17:59,267	S1:
So a good time, good time. Take it all around. You had a good time growing up?

00:18:02,667	S2:
Yeah. Very good. And the people that came to the Grove are a very nice group. Good. Probably middle class and upper middle class. Well, they had to have a few bucks to afford a cottage in the grove.

00:18:14,667	S1:
Sure.

00:18:15,801	S2:
And we had people from all the way from Newburyport to East Boston and Chelsea there. And it was quite a colony in the summer.

00:18:26,067	S1:
Well, Mr. Newhall, we're going to talk a little bit now about Frank, okay? Frank. Thank you. Thank you. Frank, we're going to talk a little bit about the Asbury Grove fire of 1927. But before we do that, I thought it would be interesting to to just go back to the very first year of the Grove's existence. So we went over to the public library in Beverly and microfilm records over there. They have a Beverly, the early Beverly newspapers, and which was the Beverly Citizen, which preceded the Beverly Times. The citizen was in Beverly for about 50 years up until about 1900, and The Beverly Times took over. So we have a couple of articles here. I'm going to read one, and you'll read one, and we'll kind of flip it back and forth here. So the first one I have here is Beverly Citizen. Saturday, June 25th, 1859. Dateline Hamilton, the annual camp meeting of the Methodist denomination will be held this year in Hamilton, in this county, instead of East Ham as heretofore. We understand that the committee, who have had the business in charge have bought ten acres of land, including a pine grove about one mile from the depot, for the sum of $600, and at least ten acres more for 10 or 20 years, as they may desire. The Eastern Railroad Corporation have agreed to carry their baggage Committee ministers free, and all others attending at half price. They also give $100 per year for police service and $300 more the first year towards expenses and preparing the grounds. The camp meeting will be held sometime in August next, and will commence on a Monday and close on a Saturday of the same week. This course has been adopted in order to avoid disturbances, which have sometimes occurred by the large number of disorderly persons that have attended on the Sabbath, and this was recorded from the Lynn Bay state newspaper into the Billy Citizen. It might make note that the Eastern Railroad was the forerunner of the Boston and Maine, which now, of course, is the T that comes through town here. And you have the second one, Mr. Frank.

00:20:35,868	S2:
Okay. This is also from the Beverly Citizen, and it's dated Saturday, August 20th, 1859. The camp meeting at Hamilton will commence on Monday next, the 23rd instance. The first public service at the stand will be at 3:00 pm, when a dedicatory sermon will be preached by the Reverend A.D. Merrill of Lynn. The committee with the authorities of the town of Hamilton have made ample provision for securing to the meeting the full benefit of our excellent state laws respecting camp meetings. Mr. J s l Eveleth, as will be seen by another advertisement in another column, has made arrangements to convey passengers and to and from the meeting at a very low figure. Then there's a footnote here, and it's headed for the camp meeting. And. Omnibus will leave the post office for camp meeting on Tuesday at 1:00 pm and return at 5:00, and on each succeeding day of the meeting. Ticket for the trip $0.30 for sale at the SD store. And this is signed by J.S. Eveleth. And the stated same date of the August 20th, 1859.

00:21:52,367	S1:
We have a picture coming up later on of what they called in those days, an omnibus. It was a horse drawn vehicle on tracks of the forerunner of the bus as we know it today. Okay. Saturday, August 27th, 1859. The Beverly Citizen Methodist Camp meeting at Hamilton Asbury Grove is the title given to the woods where this meeting is held. It is a beautiful spot, the tall pines and hemlocks affording a most complete and desirable shade. The camp is laid out in a regular shape, the tents of which there are about 50, constituting the outside bounds. A large part of these are duly designated by placards bearing, respectively, the name of the society and place to which each belongs. The weather, with the exception of Thursday, has been all that could have been desired, and multitude would have flocked to the meeting from all quarters. On Wednesday we paid a short visit to the Grove and listened to to an able discourse by Reverend W.R. Clarke of the Linn Common Society. From acts five, numbers 31 and 32. Good order has generally prevailed, and but one accident of a serious nature has occurred, and an account of which we copy from the Inquirer, and I quote serious accident to a vehicle with a Manchester people were returning home on Tuesday. The carriage containing Mr. Joseph Prescott and his wife, Mrs. Isaac Ayers, and an infant Mrs. John Harris, and Mrs. Joseph Prescott, all of Manchester, was overturned down an embankment while another vehicle was attempting to pass, and several of the occupants were hurt. The elder Mr.. Mrs. Prescott, had her right wrist and shoulder dislocated and was wounded on the forehead. Mrs., as it was feared, had her right leg fractured her child in her arms, prudently escaped uninjured. The others were not seriously injured. The wound received all the attention possible and was conveyed by railroad to Beverly, where the Gloucester branch connects with the main road. So I guess they had their dangerous driving.

00:23:43,567	S2:
Even when the horse and buggy days. Right. The horses buggies went off the road. Yep. Okay. Ready for this one? Yep. This is also a reprint from the Beverley Citizen and it's dated Saturday, September 3rd, 1859. This is kind of a bad one. Fate of camp meeting Romulus John Whipple and Thomas Highfield, who were arrested at the Ashby Golf Camp meeting on Tuesday last for selling rum on Saturday, taken from jail where they had been confined and examined before Justice Foley of Ipswich. They were found guilty of making seven sales of liquor, and were sentenced to six months imprisonment in the House of correction and to pay the fine of $50 and cost the prosecution. If the fine and costs are not paid, then three months additional imprisonment is to be imposed. And this is from the Boston Journal. So the sons began selling liquor at the Grove camp meeting.

00:24:43,200	S1:
Can you.

00:24:43,567	S2:
Imagine that? And and on top of that, if they don't pay the fine, they got to spend three more months in jail.

00:24:50,267	S1:
They don't. Fool. Didn't fool around in those days. Oh, Frank. No way. And just a quick follow up. The last piece we have here, and this is dated 1867 from the Citizen. That's eight years beyond from where we were reading the liquor Agency in Hamilton, formerly located in the center of the town, which was extensively patronized, was removed two months since to a shop near the Methodist campground, since which time up to last Saturday not a drop of the ardent has been sold. Hence it is concluded that the townspeople have suddenly become unusually healthy.

00:25:26,100	S2:
That's pretty good too.

00:25:27,167	S1:
So ends the saga of Asbury Grove in 1859 through 67.

00:25:31,901	S2:
And the liquor problems.

00:25:33,501	S1:
Yes. Now to a much more serious affair that went on at that time. In your time, I should say. In May of 1927. May 8th. Sunday evening, as I read the accounts of it, a most serious affair happened in the Grove, Frank. And I'm going to read in a minute. I'll read a little just a little excerpt from the front page of the Beverley Times, which we have here and are showing right now of the headlines of banner headlines of that night and the next night, also about the fire. Um. What? Would you like to make any comments right now, and then we'll talk specifically.

00:26:14,767	S2:
Well, I guess I was in the grill when the fire started. In fact, I was in the grove most of the time. And this was a Sunday evening about, uh, about suppertime. And I was probably not more than five minutes away from the first cottage while the fire started. And the the story was at the time that a mrs. Ward had been in that cottage, and she'd been preparing it for a summer occupancy, and she went home. Uh, they figured that she left a fire that got too hot and singed the woodwork and back and developed into a blaze. And, uh, as I say, I was probably down there. I was there before the fire department was. I know that, and I'm standing in front of the building and it's all ablaze. And when the. There was two pine trees, one on each side of the cottage, big ones. And when the flames broke. So that the roof of that cottage. They raced right up those two pine trees, and he had two flaming torches there in a matter of seconds. And I thought to myself then, oh, boy, this is going to be a fun night. And as you face the as you face the glow of the entrance, the fire started way over on the left and it was swept right across the grove and went as far as it could. I mean, it stopped when there were no more buildings to burn.

00:27:35,767	S1:
At this point, we'll continue with what you're saying. Let me just read this first paragraph of the May 9th Beverley Times, because it kind of says it all, sweeping over a path nearly 300 yards wide and covering a stretch of nearly a quarter of a mile from Asbury Avenue to beyond Skinner Avenue. And at one point, nearly out to Asbury Street, a spectacular fire wiped out approximately 125 cottages at Asbury Grove famous Hamilton meeting grounds last evening, causing a loss estimated at $75,000.

00:28:07,167	S1:
Um, lacking water to fight the racing flames, firemen and volunteers were powerless to stop the spread until it reached beyond Skinner Avenue, where a valiant stand was made and a stop scored after an attack by Wenham and Hamilton firemen by water pumped from the brook coursing through the campgrounds more than a quarter of a mile from the scene of the blaze where the blaze raged, the fiercest. Cottage after cottage went down in a few minutes there was nothing left but the foundations and the chimneys. Pine trees blazed like torches and sparks were carried from the trees and cottages, touching off one after another of the frame buildings, most of which were unoccupied. It kind of really says what you're talking about. And, uh, you, uh, you have a story to tell us. Yeah, about a rescue of an elderly gentleman.

00:28:57,000	S2:
It was kind of interesting in a way. Uh, a friend of mine and I were kind of milling around at the entrance, watching all the destruction in front of us. And this elderly lady came bombing out of the main avenue. And she said, would you boys come in and take my husband out of the out of the cottage? She said, I'm afraid the cottage is going to burn. Well, the cottage didn't burn because she was way in the very back of the grove. However, we said sure. So we went in and the old gentleman couldn't walk. He was bedridden. He got him into a chair and we tied him in so he wouldn't fall out. Luckily he wasn't too heavy, so he didn't have any problem taking him out. We took him out the main avenue and the cottages to our right, which was the direction the fire was coming from, were not burning, but all the trees overhead were burning. And so we had burning embers and sparks and things raining down on us, which was kind of a hazardous trip out through there. We finally got the follow out to the entrance and someone took care of him was either the fireman or police or somebody. And we didn't see him anymore. But the the most amusing thing about that whole deal was the fact that I was working in the Mike O'Keefe Red front store downtown, which was that store was the forerunner of supermarkets. And the the elderly lady came in and she said to me, what did you boys do with my kitchen chair?

00:30:33,767	S1:
She had that on her mind as much as the fate of her husband.

00:30:36,501	S2:
Yeah. Actually, I don't know what the what happened to her kitchen.

00:30:40,701	S1:
But probably more kindling than the girl. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the fella was saved, and.

00:30:46,567	S2:
He was saved.

00:30:47,167	S1:
Yeah. One lady did not. However, she had a heart attack.

00:30:51,367	S2:
Yes, Mrs. Frank Trussell.

00:30:53,868	S1:
Did you know this lady?

00:30:55,000	S2:
Yes, I know her. Not personally. I mean, some of her children went to school and I was in school. Her husband was a contractor. She lived just down, say down that way between here and the cemetery entrance. Okay. Frank Trussell. He was a contractor here in town, and he did an awful lot of work for the rich people on the North Shore. There were several children in the family. Probably several now. 3 or 4, probably. Mhm. And, uh, they apparently drove up there in their car and they parked up at the top of, uh, Asbury Street. As you know, there's a long ride going down to the uh, down at the intersection of uh, Asbury and Highland Street. So she was walking down that long grade and she had a heart attack. Wow. They got her up onto a porch of a house there, and, uh, she died before she could, before any help would get to her. And I think she was only about between 55 and.

00:31:56,167	S1:
63, so.

00:31:56,968	S2:
58 or so. But but she was. She was kind of a stout lady, as I remember well. And she was a do gooder in town. Yeah.

00:32:06,701	S1:
As tragic as that was, it was amazing that other people did not suffer major injury, if not worse.

00:32:12,000	S2:
I know no no injuries that are from the fire because an awful lot of people that are in the back of the ground got in there and they took furniture out that they wanted to save, and they put it in the tabernacle.

00:32:24,701	S1:
Were there any looters or. No, I never heard of dishonest people going on around the place down there.

00:32:31,467	S2:
Uh, the furniture was all put into the tabernacle and locked up. And then as the week or two and by people went in and see if they could pick out the stuff they'd thrown in the.

00:32:44,701	S1:
Following night in the Beverly Times. And we have this headline also that we'll be showing here. Uh, the story, of course, continued about the Asbury Grove fire. And again, if I read just the first paragraph, it kind of sums up a little bit about fire, but we talked about plans for rebuilding many of the cottages destroyed by the disastrous fire at Ashby Grove, Hamilton Sunday evening are now underway. This is Tuesday, May 10th. Um, and there is every indication that after insurance settlements are made, that a finer residential colony than ever will be developed on the famous campground meeting camp meeting ground. The Asbury Grove Corporation, which controls the property, will probably have a meeting within a few days, and something definite will be done towards settling the plans for the future. Investigation and checkups made yesterday show that 119 cottages were destroyed, which tallies remarkably close to the figures given to the evening times during the fire by Superintendent John G. Mann, that 125 cottages had been destroyed. Renewed.

00:33:54,200	S1:
The agitation was started yesterday for a better water supply at the Grove as an aid in the firefighting. The wonderful work of the pumping engines, taking water from a brook over a half a mile from the scene of the fire, was the only thing that prevented the fire from continuing its sweep through the cottage colony. Frank, I imagine after this was all over and done, said that they had quite serious discussions about how to improve the fire fighting capacity in town here.

00:34:22,167	S2:
Yeah, I would imagine, as I recall, there was only one piece of kit here in the town, and there was a little model T Ford. I just had a couple of tanks on the back of it, a model T chassis. I might comment that if 125 or 400 cars had burned at a loss of 75,000, which not a big loss, can you imagine 125 buildings of any sort burning today, and only an estimated loss of 75,000? And now I don't know why that would include the trees. I would assume it would just, uh, include the the cottages that burn the buildings. So you figure that out. That would give you an average value of the cottages of each cottage of only $600.

00:35:07,167	S1:
Well, well, again, in those days, probably fair money, but certainly by today's standards, we wouldn't even want to discuss what they're worth down there today. Um, quickly about the thunderstorms down in the grove. You were telling me about the. You particularly noticed the fierce, uh, series of storms. Yeah.

00:35:27,467	S2:
There was something in the grove, apparently, that attracted lightning because there was a lot of lightning strikes in there. I remember particularly one bad storm, uh, cracked a big pine tree in the middle, and the pine tree toppled over on the top of a cottage, and it split that cottage at the ridge pole wide open.

00:35:48,567	S1:
I suppose it was God doing his work down there at the ground.

00:35:51,300	S2:
Well, he shouldn't have been doing it there.

00:35:57,300	S1:
Amen to that. Well, Frank, now we're downtown in Depot Square, and we have a set of pictures here that we've accumulated from both the Wenham and the Hamilton historical societies. And we are indebted to both of these fine groups for the loan of these pictures. And what we'll see here. Unless otherwise noted, our Conant Benjamin Conant pictures that he took between the years of 1890. All the way up through the first decade or two of of the 1900s. We're looking, first of all, here at a photograph of Depot Square and the Essex branch, which no longer is in existence, is in front of us. And of course, there are double tracks heading off in a northerly direction. Now, this is dated July 5th, 1890. Anything you want to comment about these as we go along? Why?

00:36:47,267	S2:
Well, this, uh, This branch that ran down to Wessex. There were 3 or 4 stations in Hamilton and East Hamilton where the train stopped, and it was only a two car train. In fact, we used to call it the peanut branch.

00:37:03,267	S1:
I.

00:37:03,467	S2:
See. And when this train went to Essex, it was only two trips a day. Came out in the morning, went back at night. When the train went to Wessex in the evening it stayed there and they moved out the next morning. I don't know how far they went. If they only if they came to the Hamilton station. Anybody going further like the Salem, Lynn or Boston, they could have changed for the main line here. So I have an idea that maybe this peanut branch just went to maybe Beverly or Salem and probably pulled off on a sidetrack there or, or entered the freight yards and Salem and waited there until it was time to go back.

00:37:38,667	S1:
Okay.

00:37:39,467	S2:
Oh, and I might say to this water tower and the windmill, the water tower was to replenish the water and the boilers of the engines. And somewhere around here there was a big pipe that swung out, and it would swing out over the engine and then they'd drop it down. Why? They wanted to put the water and get whatever water they needed to operate it.

00:38:04,000	S1:
Okay, I want to read the next one for us.

00:38:08,267	S2:
Well, this is, uh, Depot Square. Uh.

00:38:15,300	S1:
Looking looking in a westerly direction. Yeah.

00:38:18,767	S2:
As you note that the road is not paved or anything. It's just a gravel road. And over here again is the water tower and the windmill station and this building over here. Mhm. And you'll notice there's a street car over here on this side.

00:38:36,601	S1:
Building as we'll talk about later is. Some of them are still there. Some of them aren't. Yeah. In the next photo we have again another scene of Depot Square with the railroad station no longer there. Building is gone and a train is in waiting to to.

00:38:51,801	S2:
Incidentally, up on the second floor of the railroad station there was a tenement, and people lived up there. On the first floor. As you face the building, stay in the middle of it. They segregated the people. The men's waiting room was on the right, and the ladies waiting room was on the left. And in the middle was the the man that sold the tickets. And there was always a wireless key in there clacking away.

00:39:16,467	S1:
Okay, we still at the depot side view looking at the station and the train ready to come or go. That's an item for these are all. We're into 1891, by the way. This is an 1891 snap. And as we continue on, we're again November 12th, 1891, looking at Bay road right into Depot Square. The road is.

00:39:41,367	S2:
Again. Now, this is very similar to the one we just commented on, which I believe was number three.

00:39:48,200	S1:
And here's a side view of the depot. This reminds me very much of the Beverley train station, which is still in existence today. Or at least the facade is. There's a restaurant there now, but this reminds me very much of the Beverly Depot.

00:40:03,667	S2:
That's number.

00:40:04,267	S1:
Six. Number six? Yep. And going along here, a view of the square area looking toward Wenham.

00:40:12,667	S2:
Moving right along smartly.

00:40:14,801	S1:
Right.

00:40:15,300	S2:
Yeah. That's the same direction west with a streetcar there.

00:40:18,667	S1:
Yep. And in the corner of this building, over the right is still standing today.

00:40:23,167	S2:
That's. It's changed an awful lot, though, since those days. And this building, the one in back there is, uh, a mr. Conrad lived there, and he ran a fish market out front.

00:40:35,767	S1:
That one's dated November 26th, 1891. And the horse car is number 24. people would care. Now tell us something about the Smith Block on Railroad Avenue.

00:40:46,267	S2:
Here they are. The Smith Block was a bunch of shops on the first floor and the second floor. There were rooms to rent, and they were. I think they were all men in there. I don't think they allowed these girls in there. This middle section here with its, uh, dormer windows, was occupied when I was a youngster by Doctor King, who was a dentist, and he lived in Walnut Road, and he was in Hamilton two days a week. And the rest of the time he had a Boston office.

00:41:16,567	S1:
So if your.

00:41:16,968	S2:
Tooth ain't.

00:41:17,767	S1:
You had to have it on the.

00:41:18,767	S2:
Right. It was a nice guy. Yeah, he took care of our teeth. But the third floor, there was a fire in the building. And after the fire, the third floor was was cut off. That third floor used to be those tall dances up there. There was a stage at one end and they used to play basketball up there.

00:41:35,901	S1:
So today we see the building, two floors of. What was that three storied Story. Okay. Next, we're down at the depot again, and locomotive number 153, dated January 25th, 1892. I guess the name of it was the Nahant Engine. Certainly it didn't go through Nahant, did it? No. No. So they must have had.

00:41:56,367	S2:
A that almost looks like the one that used to run down to Essex.

00:41:59,367	S1:
Yeah. Again, the next picture shows the same train at a little distance. The full view of it.

00:42:05,167	S2:
And as you can see, there's just two cars on it.

00:42:07,367	S1:
Yeah.

00:42:08,400	S2:
That took care of the crowd going to Essex. Yeah.

00:42:11,267	S1:
That's all they were worth. Was two cars to Essex.

00:42:13,567	S2:
And one of them was half the baggage car.

00:42:15,868	S1:
Yeah. Okay, now we're hopscotch back down on Railroad Avenue. The reason we're doing this, I might point out, is we're taking the pictures in chronological order so that we're now progressing up to 1892. And again, we're at the Smith Block here. Yeah. Two years later. Comment about that little wooden building in the foreground.

00:42:38,167	S2:
Oh, yeah. Well, it's either the man there with a white coat on who might be a butcher of some sort, but I don't remember what was there then. But I remember later on there was a shoemaker in there. His name was John Krol, and he was an old bachelor, and he lived in the back, and his shop was out front and hanging on the front of the building on a bracket. He had a boot which would be similar to there was a replica of a riding boot. You know, something would come up to your knees and that was painted gold. So all John had a gold boot hanging out in front of his shop.

00:43:16,567	S1:
Give the people the boot with.

00:43:18,067	S2:
Yeah.

00:43:18,801	S1:
Yeah. Okay. Uh, number 12, these are. We've numbered them for our convenience here. So this this is number 12, and we're looking at the corner of, uh, Bay Road and Railroad Avenue. And again, you have the the feeling of a country town here. The pavements have not yet come into being.

00:43:36,367	S2:
That's right. It's just a gravel road.

00:43:39,767	S1:
Smith block is in the distance. And that barn there is.

00:43:42,467	S2:
And we might mention that this barn and back here.

00:43:46,067	S1:
Of the corner store.

00:43:47,267	S2:
Yeah. There were a painter was in there at one time. His name was Lane. And then after Lane got out of there, we had a contractor here in town whose name was Lester Whipple, and he had an office in front, and he had his shop in the back, but that building was razed and the first national store went in there. I believe it's now an auto supply store.

00:44:08,067	S1:
Okay, we're at the station again, July 29th, 1892, and we'll just look at this quickly and move right along, Frank, to the next one, which is one of my favorite pictures here of the mall that we've collected today. This to me looks like a real western town. And we're looking right downtown here in Depot Square at the corner of Bay Road and Railroad Avenue. You can almost see the dust rising up in the, in the in the scene here, and it's a centennial celebration. And dated June 21st, 1893. Uh, Benjamin Conant took this picture, and I'm impressed with the with the with the stop action that this fellow was able to get with his camera at that time.

00:44:50,467	S2:
And I have a band going around the corner.

00:44:52,767	S1:
Yep. And right in motion you see there. Right in the morning. Look at the horse down in the corner with his ears perked up, enjoying everything that's happening there.

00:45:00,100	S2:
And this, uh, sorry. With the fringe on top. Similar to what, uh, you know, the song and the musical show Oklahoma!

00:45:09,701	S1:
You wrote.

00:45:10,000	S2:
In those? Oh, we had one of those on the farm. Yeah. Uh, we used to go to church every morning and that.

00:45:15,567	S1:
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:17,300	S2:
Every Sunday morning, I should say.

00:45:19,801	S1:
Okay. Uh, next item is just a shot again of the depot, and I'm just going to. We're going to go rather quickly now, Frank, so that we can get through. We have a large collection of them here. This is dated May 26th, 1894. We'll move right to the next one. Um, why don't we just swap? Read a date. Now read a date. So this one is May 26th, 1894. Same time.

00:45:45,100	S2:
Okay, this one is a different part of the town. And it's dated, uh, December 28th, 1895. And this was an area that was devastated in a fire and on Good Friday in 1910.

00:46:00,767	S1:
Mhm. And, uh, we're looking up Willow Street and this one, uh, still.

00:46:05,567	S2:
That's, that's about the same area.

00:46:07,367	S1:
And note that the attractor Asbury Grove railroad track goes right across the street here. Yeah. And the next picture, let's see. Are we going to stay.

00:46:16,267	S2:
Together about 19. What do.

00:46:17,400	S1:
You got? I've got 18.

00:46:18,567	S2:
Here. I got 18.

00:46:19,467	S1:
Yeah. I just wanted to point out that we just turned the corner, just turned the camera around here and shot the other way down, down Willow Street to get to to get this.

00:46:27,000	S2:
We got 18.

00:46:28,000	S1:
Yep.

00:46:29,100	S2:
Now, any comments on 19?

00:46:31,100	S1:
Well let's see. It's an old postcard and not a very good clear picture. But again, you begin to see some changes in terms of modernizing, shall we say, the square. Not not a great deal, but at.

00:46:43,501	S2:
Least on this shot there seems to be a big cloud cover there.

00:46:46,901	S1:
Yeah.

00:46:47,300	S2:
That's right. Which would which would not make for a good picture.

00:46:50,400	S1:
No. No, indeed. Okay. The next one we're looking directly at what is now Connolly's drugstore. And in those days it was the corner store had various names attached to it. The picture is dated 1900. June 11th, 1900. And across the street at what is now Talbot. This picture is dated June 11th, 1900. And again, the building itself looks much like it did back then.

00:47:21,868	S2:
Yes, it hasn't changed much over the.

00:47:23,367	S1:
Years, and we note that the Appleton Building is now in evidence here to the brick building, as it was called across the street.

00:47:30,501	S2:
Of course, was showing a lot of trees here, and those trees are long gone.

00:47:34,367	S1:
So okay, a close up. The next picture is a close up of the one that we have just seen. Again, it's the what we would now call the Talbot Building, I guess for a better name, lack of a better name today. And in those days there was a post office in there, Frank. And yeah.

00:47:51,000	S2:
My first recollection of this building was that this half was a paper store run by a mr. Pondexter, and the other half was the post office. And up over the up on the second floor. Excuse me. There was a tenement up there, and we lived there for a while. You did? Yeah.

00:48:08,167	S1:
Occupied the.

00:48:08,968	S2:
Whole. And also at one time this was the headquarters of the Hamilton police. But you didn't go in from this entrance. You went. There was an entrance around on the back that you went upstairs to go to. To the police?

00:48:22,667	S1:
Yeah. Okay. The next one, we're at the same store. Same scene. Only we have moved to June 16th, 1900, right in the same area.

00:48:33,000	S2:
Yeah. Moving up, moving along.

00:48:35,100	S1:
And then, um, same day, 1900, June 16th. Across the street in the brick building. Um, in those days, at that time, there was from left to right, the London Harness Company of Boston, where the horses in the window there. That company is still in business today. Then it was followed by Nehemiah McQueen, who was in there. Next door was Robert Robinson, the plumber. You can see his sign there. Yeah. And we had Hamilton Hardware store next door to that and the pharmacy or drugstore. It says on the notes here was operated by Mr. Brown of Ipswich and Earl Brewer and H that worked there as clerks. And Pondexter later operated the newspaper.

00:49:15,767	S2:
In his own store.

00:49:16,567	S1:
Yep. Okay. Which was across the street back. Back across the street where he.

00:49:21,367	S2:
Also where Robert Robinson was at that time was the a branch library at one time. And I guess along about here is why the hunt is in was. Yes, it is why the hardware store used to be the hunters in now.

00:49:34,667	S1:
Next, next picture here is exactly the same block at a different angle. Shot on the same day.

00:49:39,868	S2:
I believe I got it at number 25.

00:49:41,767	S1:
We're on 25 and 26. Again. We're looking at the Depot Square, but now we're up to about 1907. This has a circa 1907, so it could be right in that area. And again, August 12th, 1907. Next picture with the gates down here. You told me a story about you used to go over there to that gate there when it was other.

00:50:05,868	S2:
I used to hang out with a cross and tender. But I might mention on the in this picture, this crossing tender shanty was moved from here, over here, and I think was probably moved over there because they could take care of the gates at the Essex branch that tracks ran over Walnut Road.

00:50:23,467	S1:
He used to give the gate tender a hard time. You were telling me?

00:50:26,100	S2:
No. We had a good time together. He had a he had a fiddle. And when he wasn't putting the gates up and down, he played tunes on the fiddle.

00:50:33,868	S1:
That was good.

00:50:35,267	S2:
He fiddled around.

00:50:36,601	S1:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

00:50:38,701	S2:
He was a nice guy. I had a lot of friends in Hamilton when I was a kid.

00:50:42,067	S1:
I bet you did. I bet you did. Number 28 again, the same view, 1907 view of the Connor store and the Appleton block. And we go right along to the next picture, uh, 1907 again. Uh, a little bit to the pin to the right here and down Railroad Avenue. We're looking. And now we begin to see the streets looking a little more modern. Uh, the hint of some sidewalk.

00:51:07,367	S2:
Some curb stones.

00:51:08,267	S1:
Curb.

00:51:08,467	S2:
Stones. And you've also got an oil lamp on top of a pole there.

00:51:11,501	S1:
Yep. That's right.

00:51:13,100	S2:
Which I had to contend with. And as we grow.

00:51:15,400	S1:
That's right.

00:51:17,100	S2:
Same thing for a dollar a day.

00:51:18,901	S1:
Yeah. Smith block. Next one, 1908. And, um. Let's see. Tell me about a restaurant that was in the.

00:51:29,701	S2:
Yeah. This, uh, this little annex here on the end of the building. It's marked American Express was apparently with an had to be an American Express office later on. Uh, a Greek man named Pappas ran the ran that store. Ran that as a restaurant? Yep. And we used to call it the Greasy Spoon. Not very original, but, uh.

00:51:52,167	S1:
Subtly to the stomach.

00:51:53,267	S2:
I mean, that at that time and and.

00:51:58,667	S2:
Place was all right.

00:52:00,868	S1:
Yeah. Okay, next. We're going right along here. Number 31, a 1908 view of the depot. Still horses and wagons. But we begin to see automobiles in the little course. Uh, open horses, open carriages there.

00:52:16,567	S2:
That's number 31.

00:52:17,767	S1:
Right. Number 31. Right. 32. The next one, we have a view of a of a, um, uh, electric street railway car. Uh, car number 23. You write on those Franklin.

00:52:31,267	S2:
One of the cloth car, and the other one's an open car. Yeah, I used to ride on my lot. Yeah. At the time, you could buy a 20 ride ticket for a dollar. That was the ticket that the. And the rides were a little squares around the outside of the car, and they would punch out for each zone you went to. And from Hamilton to Salem was for punches. $0.20.

00:52:52,868	S1:
There you go. And here we have a good, nice close up picture of, uh, of the open horse car here. An omnibus, I guess you would call it. Uh, as we talked about earlier.

00:53:04,100	S2:
You notice the canvas curtains that are rolled up? Right. In case of rain, they'd roll the curtains down.

00:53:09,367	S1:
Right. Right. And quickly, as we go through the last couple here, we see in 1910 the advent of the coming of the automobile. And there they are, putting, putting up and down the street here, right in the scene where.

00:53:25,267	S2:
You got the open car and over there to the open cars are fun to ride in in the summer.

00:53:30,767	S1:
Well, I don't know. I'm saying. Yeah, but I don't know, Frank. I'll take your word on that. And again, the automobile. Then we jump quickly here to 1966.

00:53:42,000	S1:
This picture was taken by our good friend Lee Kaiser, who was the chairman of the Continental Advisory Board here in town. And he took the snap of looking the other way in the reverse direction. And this house is no longer there, frankly.

00:53:56,167	S2:
That's why the gas station is now. And that was Mrs. Clark's boarding house. And she took in people in the summer that came into town to work for the rich. She they got room and board there.

00:54:08,467	S1:
What? Lots were running out of time here. One last picture of the 1968 celebration year. It was 175th anniversary of Depot Square, and there is a picture with the banners decked out on the On Talbot building. Today we're going to stop here. Frank, as much as I'd like to go on and talk more, we have more pictures to do. Maybe another time. When we have some time, we'll sit and talk more. I know that you wanted to take me downtown and show me some things down there which we'd all be interested in, in seeing at a at a future time. I want to thank you so much for coming on the program with us, and I enjoyed it tremendously, and I hope.

00:54:51,167	S2:
Well, thanks. It's been interesting.

00:54:53,167	S1:
Thank you. And on behalf.

00:54:54,467	S2:
Of something I've never done before.

00:54:56,267	S1:
Yeah, well, you did a wonderful job. Thank you. Excellent. Behalf of my partner and friend, William Heights over there. Producer. And Lynn Kay standing in the background with a pretty smile. And our cameraman, Peter Vaughan.

00:55:10,000	S2:
And a pretty blouse.

00:55:11,767	S1:
Yes. Yes, indeed. You know. Thank you for joining us. And we'll see you again soon.