00:02:55,229 spk_0: Yeah 00:03:01,169 spk_0: we're good to go. Um, it's, um, 00:03:05,030 spk_1: 7:03 p.m. and I am calling the August 5th, 2025. Hamilton Planning Board meeting to order. The meeting is being recorded by HW Cam, and I'll begin by taking role. So when I call your name, would you please indicate that you're present? Pat Norton, Jonathan Poo, 00:03:29,229 spk_0: Jonathan Po present. Bill 00:03:30,699 spk_2: Wheaton, Bill Wheaton 00:03:32,030 spk_1: present. Amil Dahlquists. 00:03:36,430 spk_1: Darcy Dale. 00:03:41,000 spk_1: Darcy, I is intending to be here via Zoom. She's on muted. 00:03:51,469 spk_1: to be muted 00:03:52,000 spk_3: muted. 00:03:56,500 spk_3: Yeah you And feedback Darcy. 00:04:02,669 spk_3: So 00:04:04,430 spk_2: see down it's like a 00:04:05,629 spk_3: little red line. 00:04:08,629 spk_4: She looks like she is unmuted and trying to cause she turned up green for a second there. 00:04:16,500 spk_1: Darcy, can you hear us? 00:04:18,269 spk_5: I can hear you, but I know you can't hear me. Oh, we 00:04:21,170 spk_1: can't hear you. 00:04:22,269 spk_5: Oh, you can. OK, good, good. I've been talking, so. Good thank you. 00:04:27,629 spk_1: So I'm calling Rolls so when I call your name, I know you're present. 00:04:32,399 spk_5: Yes, Darcy Dale present, 00:04:34,230 spk_1: uh, Matt Hammill present and Marnie Crouch present, and I know for the record that, uh, neither Beth her nor Jeff Austin are here this evening. Uh, so our first order of business, if no one minds, I'm going to take it out of order is, uh, the continued hearing. On the special permit application pursuant to mass general laws. Chapter 48 section 10 and Section 7.3 of our bylaw with respect to the wireless facility for Walnut Road and the applicant is new uh new singular Wireless PCS LLC and it's represented uh by um. Uh, Edward pair of, uh, Brown Ruddick, so I understand that, uh, the applicant will be, uh, requesting a continuance, so, uh. I Do we have to uh open the special permit hearing in order to continue it? 00:05:41,199 spk_6: I don't think so. You're certainly welcome to ask any questions if well he's here with us. 00:05:47,930 spk_1: Well, anyhow, um, we're, we're continuing the hearing, so, um, uh, Mr. Per, you can, uh, uh, make your request on the record. 00:05:59,230 spk_7: Yes, thank you, Madam Chair, members of the planning board Ed Perry from Brown Ruddick, uh, so as you recall we had identified a pole to attach our small cell facility to, uh, there were a couple of neighbors that came out at the public hearing a couple of months ago. Uh, we agreed to look at some other, uh, utility poles. We have one. It works for us. We think it'll work for the utility company. Uh, but the wheels of the utility companies turned slowly. Uh, we have not gotten their approval back yet. Um, there was a at the last meeting we had suggested that we continue, so we're at this meeting now just requesting the continuance until your meeting on 00:06:41,000 spk_1: September 00:06:41,870 spk_7: 2. 00:06:43,069 spk_1: Uh, September 2nd or September 15th. 00:06:47,000 spk_7: Either September 15th would be fine with us. 00:06:49,670 spk_1: Let's see. 00:06:50,930 spk_7: Uh, no, I don't think that's a meeting date. No, no, no, I think September 2 was the date. 00:06:55,500 spk_1: September 16th is the meeting date. So, um, it's your preference, September 2nd or September 16th. 00:07:03,170 spk_7: Uh, you know, I, I think September 16th probably makes more sense now that we're already in August and I don't have an answer back from the utility company. So, uh, if, if the board would be inclined to approve or continue to the 16th, uh, likewise I'll get a letter out tomorrow to Mark just extending the, the shot clock and the, uh. Uh, for the decision filing, uh, to the end of September. 00:07:25,629 spk_1: That's fine. Uh, so I'll entertain a motion to continue the special permit hearing from August 5th to, uh, September 16th at 7 p.m. So moved. Do I have a second? Second, um. So when I call your name, please indicate your present, uh, your assent to this, uh, request for a continuance Pat Norton, Pat Norton, Jonathan 00:07:51,230 spk_0: Poo, Jonathan I Bill 00:07:53,069 spk_1: Wheaton Wheaton Amil Dahlquist. Darcy Dale. Darcy Dale I and Marnie Crouch I. See you on the 16th, Mister Perry. 00:08:05,569 spk_7: Uh, thank you all. Enjoy the rest of the summer. Much appreciated. 00:08:09,800 spk_1: Thank you. 00:08:15,029 spk_1: So, uh, why don't we go to agenda item one, the review of the minutes. So we have. 00:08:26,769 spk_1: 7 sets of minutes and um. 00:08:33,730 spk_1: Is there any discussion about the minutes from. April 29th. 00:08:49,570 spk_1: I had uh several very minor um corrections to the minutes for April 29th and I believe they could be approved subject to uh Mark uh making sure that the uh edits have been made. 00:09:10,200 spk_0: Make a motion that the meeting minutes from April 29, 2025 be approved, um, with the edits requested by Marie. 00:09:18,730 spk_1: Do I have a second? Second. Um I, we can't do all in favor because we have a member appearing um via Zoom. That's OK, Darcy. We're not gonna hold it against you, uh, Pat Norton, Norton, Jonathan Poo, Jonathan I Bill Wheaton, Amil Dahlquist, 00:09:41,230 spk_1: Darcy Dale, Darcy Dale I and Marnie Crouch I. Uh, and then we have the minutes from May 13th and uh. I Uh, had agreed to make the edits that I had previously suggested to these minutes, so I think they're in pretty good shape. Uh, is there any comment or corrections with respect to these minutes? 00:10:11,429 spk_1: No, so I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes from May 13th, um. Uh, 00:10:23,330 spk_1: 2025, so moved. Uh, Pat Norton, Pat Norton, Jonathan Poo, Jonathan Po I Bill Wheaton, Bill Wheaton Amil Dahlquist, Darcy Dale. Darcy Dale I Marnie Crouch I. Uh, the minutes from May 20th, I, uh, had several, uh, corrections to these minutes and I believe Darcy. Had some comments about these minutes so uh my corrections were all, uh, stylistic, um, oh, the one thing I did notice on the minutes, um. Is that uh. When the members of the planning board are listed in the second paragraph with their um terms, uh, uh, the terms have not been extended, so uh I would hate to lose Eil Dalquist, Bill Wheaton, and Beth Her because their terms have expired so that the correction should be to, uh, 2028 so that pertains to the minutes of May 20th, um. 00:11:34,000 spk_1: So, um, any discussion of the minutes from May 20th? 00:11:43,500 spk_1: Uh, OK, uh, so, uh, hearing no discussion, I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes from May 20th subject to the stylistic corrections, uh, that I've made, and I will give these, uh, minutes to, uh. Uh, Mark so that he can see that these corrections are made. So moved. Do you have a second, uh, Pat Norton. Jonathan 00:12:10,830 spk_0: Poo, Jonathan Po Bill 00:12:12,769 spk_1: Wheaton, Billy Hamil Dahlquist, Darcy Dale. Darcy 00:12:18,799 spk_5: Dale, I and 00:12:19,799 spk_1: Marnie Crouch I. OK, June 3rd. And I had agreed to make the edits to these minutes, so, um, I think they're in pretty good shape. Did anyone have any, um. Uh, edits to these minutes. 00:12:40,730 spk_1: OK, 00:12:46,000 spk_1: so I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes from June 3rd. 00:12:51,000 spk_0: So moved. 00:12:52,429 spk_1: You have a second. OK, so when I call your name, um, Pat Norton, Pat Norton, Jonathan, 00:13:01,669 spk_0: Jonathan 00:13:01,730 spk_1: Bill Wheaton, Bill Wheaton Amil Dahlquist. Darcy Dale. Darcy Dale I Crouch. Oh, we're making progress. So let's talk about the next 3 sets of minutes. So that's June 17th, June 24th, and July 1st. 00:13:23,669 spk_1: I have stylistic corrections to these minutes, minor corrections, um, similarly, uh. That's for June 17th, similarly, June 24th. They're really quite minor, um. And then also July 1st, very minor corrections and so uh I would entertain a motion to approve these three sets of motions subject to the stylistic corrections that I have, uh, noted on the uh minutes. So moved. Do you have a second? 00:13:58,830 spk_3: Second, Uh, 00:14:02,500 spk_3: yes, I'm sorry. Yes, which, 00:14:15,730 spk_3: right, right. 00:14:17,970 spk_3: Mm Uh 2025. 00:14:23,129 spk_1: Right, I picked that up on. 00:14:26,700 spk_1: I picked that up on all of them, so is that the only uh. 00:14:32,529 spk_3: Uh yeah, 00:14:34,129 spk_1: OK. All right, so We can go ahead and vote to approve those 00:14:40,669 spk_0: minutes. Do we need to state the motion again? Yeah, 00:14:43,500 spk_1: uh, do, do we have a motion? Help me here. 00:14:46,899 spk_0: We had. We had, we had a motion. We second it. All 00:14:49,700 spk_1: right, so now we just have to approve them. So Pat Norton, Pat Norton I, Jonathan, 00:14:54,629 spk_0: Jonathan I, 00:14:56,000 spk_1: Bill Wheaton, Bill Wheaton, Emil Dahlquist, Darcy Dale, Darcy Dale I and Marnie Crouch. OK, making progress. Uh, the next item on our agenda is the attorney general's review of our zoning amendments that were passed at town meeting. So I know Mark, um, uh, provided us with some information, and we do have the, uh, letter that was addressed to, um, our town clerk from, um, the attorney general's office, uh, outlining, um, the problems with site plan review and. 00:15:37,629 spk_4: Sorry, Marnie, did we skip July 1st or we just did we just 00:15:40,370 spk_1: do July? We did July 1st. We just did 3 00:15:44,700 spk_1: Did you have any issues with July 1st? Nope. 00:15:47,200 spk_4: OK, thank you. 00:15:49,830 spk_1: Uh, so, um, the. First article, uh, that's um. There's a continuance that's been granted for the review of Article 4.4-5. That's, uh, the article dealing with ADUs, and I, uh, surmise that, uh, the attorney General's office is inundated with, uh, bylaws to review with respect to ADUs so we don't have to worry about that and then, uh, the, uh, there was only one section of the site plan review article, um. And that was. 00:16:34,399 spk_1: 1064 yeah thank you thank you I have that and so um in a in a communication with Mark, uh, we agreed that we would um request um KP Law to weigh in on how we should amend, uh, this particular section 10.6.4, uh, with respect to the Dover amendment, uh, 10.7 is our bylaw that deals with, uh, the Dover amendment, so I think we just need. Uh, to have a, a carveout for the Dover Amendment and then um. And and and just uh. Uh, otherwise comply with their, uh, with the uh attorney general's comments, um. 00:17:25,099 spk_1: I, I don't think it's, it's going to um. Um, be, uh, particularly difficult to address. Uh, there was an issue under the floodplain bylaw, but I think that that these can be resolved fairly expeditiously and, uh, until we hear from KP Law, I don't think we have to, uh, dive deep into this this evening. Um, because that was the only section that, that, uh, uh, elicited a response from the attorney general. Does anybody have any comments with respect to that? 00:17:58,630 spk_3: Just to, just to clarify, is that, uh, for government uses now they, they would, uh, have the Dover Amendment privilege. 00:18:06,970 spk_1: Well, I don't think they would have the Dover Amendment privilege, but I think they just have an exception. 00:18:14,599 spk_6: And uh specifically state and federal, not not municipal uh there's a question of whether or not we can require it for state and federal uses. 00:18:26,170 spk_1: And we don't have any. Oh, we do have the post office. 00:18:34,400 spk_1: Oh, that's right, yeah they do so in our forms. 00:18:37,930 spk_1: With the post office, but they, I, they have plants in their windows, so 00:18:48,200 spk_0: they're exempt from almost every regulation. Um, they're exempt from historic district. They're exempt from, yeah, every, 00:18:55,970 spk_1: everything. But they can voluntarily comply. 00:19:00,369 spk_1: and I, and the people at the post office are very friendly. I 00:19:03,769 spk_3: mean, you're dealing with the Northeast 00:19:12,369 spk_3: region. Oh right, I know I familiar with them, they're not quite many years ago they started this process to create a kit of designs. They wanted to create one post office that was identical in every single community. 00:19:22,269 spk_1: McDonald's. 00:19:24,700 spk_3: they came up with a building type design that was supposed to be universally appealing to every single. 00:19:32,599 spk_1: How does that work? 00:19:35,900 spk_1: How bad was it? How bad was it? Did you say it was pretty bad, I imagine. Oh man. 00:19:44,769 spk_3: I need a little blender 00:19:49,900 spk_1: There was someone who didn't study architecture or history. Oh jeez. All right, so I, I, I think that, uh, those kinds of things are, are, are readily, uh, fixable, so, uh, we can move on. So the uh next item. Is the follow up from the July 4th town meeting and I wanna take the opportunity to thank uh Mark and Amil and especially Jonathan who presented at the town meeting for um uh essentially covering for me in large part uh at the meeting, um, I, I, I obviously couldn't watch it in real time. Because I was in 6 hours time difference in Switzerland, but I did, uh, watch the highlights, uh, after the fact. So thank you all for doing, doing that work. Uh, so I think, uh, um, Amo sent, um, a little flow diagram which I guess is your specialty now. 00:20:59,730 spk_1: And it's hard to use the town center code, and I think, uh, you know, I haven't, you know, I, I, I looked at it and I thought this is great. I mean, I don't know if this is the final version, but it's certainly 00:21:16,900 spk_1: if you didn't have a chance to print it out again. 00:21:35,599 spk_2: You know, while, while, while we're here, I'd like to make a comment and congratulate everybody on the 3A approval. You know, we won by 4 votes. 00:21:46,930 spk_1: I thought it was 1441. 00:21:49,799 spk_2: I did the math. 00:21:50,500 spk_1: That's 4 00:21:51,630 spk_2: and um. I think you know, the Mark's presentation was terrific and it was just, it worked very well. Everybody deserves a pat on the back. Yeah, really did. I 00:22:03,369 spk_3: in the end it all came together pretty quickly without a. Communication I thought Mark did an exceptional. 00:22:12,029 spk_2: Mark, yes, Mark. Mark 00:22:14,029 spk_3: and you're hired Jonathan. 00:22:17,430 spk_6: Well, I think that the handouts helped because uh. Uh, Joe had told me, well, 99% of people made up their mind before they come to the meeting, but we had all these handouts and people are taking a like. I felt like majority of people were taking the handouts were really interested in kind of reviewing it and and to me it seemed like they were, um, you know, still swayable in their opinions. 00:22:42,299 spk_0: I talked to several people after the meeting and they said they came in ready to vote no. They were really firm. They were gonna vote no and after the presentation they voted yes. 00:22:52,970 spk_0: yes, so it was worth it was worth the effort, especially if it was just a few votes, so. 00:23:01,170 spk_4: I was getting text messages to the similar effect. As Jonathan described, meaning people who intended to say no, but then they were texting during the thing saying this doesn't sound so bad. I It's not so bad. 00:23:17,029 spk_1: Well, I think it's going to be good and, and, uh, I, I, in looking at the minutes, I mean, uh, Matthew from UTL, he said that there were a few communities that incorporated just a few elements of the form-based code, but I think we're the only community that really has a robust and it obviously could possibly be strengthened in the future, but a robust form-based code, and I think that is really uh. A remarkable achievement and I think we have to really congratulate Amo because he started laying the groundwork for this form-based code probably what, 3 or 4 years ago. 00:23:57,529 spk_0: He laid the groundwork in his interview process to see if he could get on the planning board. I, I listened to it. That was the introduction to form-based code when he basically shook hands with the planning board. Marie, would you mind moving your mic a little closer so I can hear you? So anyway, that's, that's when when Amil started it all. 00:24:15,930 spk_1: But I remember he gave a presentation to um uh the uh master plan steering committee and he he really he sold me from the get go I mean I thought it was a great idea, but you know I I have a historic preservation background um that was many years ago but um it it it made perfect sense to me, uh, to have a cohesive community, uh, so, um. Great job. 00:24:46,569 spk_3: Thank 00:24:46,599 spk_1: you. I'm here and I I I remarks. 00:24:53,269 spk_3: I think he did, uh, John, for a lot of reasons is uh is a good person to have on speaking on your behalf. He's, he's eloquent and, uh, I think he has the trust, uh, of. The public as I think Jonathan does certainly uh. Uh, but I talked with Matthew Latell afterwards and The reason for this chart, uh, is I said, do you, uh, do you plan to come to the planning board and sort of give us at least one lesson on how to administer this code. Because that is typically what these these consultants will do and I guess they, I think he's expired there, um, you know, he's finished his contract but I this is something I'm wondering whether uh how the board feels about that actually inviting them back. What I did was take a stab at at a chart. This is not finished. This is open for discussion. This can be changed. This can be modified, added to things taken away. This is something to put in place just to as a discussion point. With the idea of is this gonna be helpful or not, we have to keep it simple and not get it too complicated, but on the other hand that has to be helpful to everybody going through this whole process, you know, from developers coming in to, uh, property owners and and so forth and a planning board actually so, so I, I thought, uh, I would start this anyway for discussion and then see if there's any interest in through Mark whether we could get UTL back for at least one. You know Matthew was open to that idea. He just, he said, no, I'm not coming back to Hamilton again, so he is open to it. Well, 00:26:33,869 spk_1: I think in addition to this flow chart, it's incumbent upon the planning board to develop some regulations because There's no uh. There are no requirements as to what people actually have to file, how many copies. Uh, all those kinds of, uh, logistical, uh, aspects of implementing, uh, a code, so it's it, I think this is a fabulous, but we also, and I know in the code we we included a provision that authorized the planning board to issue regulation so we have uh regulations that we want we might wanna consider and also design guidelines. 00:27:20,400 spk_3: Yeah, that opens up a whole new 00:27:22,230 spk_1: project. What the Right 00:27:31,069 spk_0: Yeah, that's, that's not regulatory. 00:27:33,769 spk_2: That's 00:27:34,529 spk_0: that's guidance technique 00:27:35,829 spk_2: has a beta prototype of an AI software that manages all inquiries faced by the town. So you know this is Hamilton. What can I do you know, and if you say building permits or you say zoning or you say my water doesn't work, uh, or whatever it is, directs you, you know, eventually to some human that orders a repair or gives you some advice, but apparently it saves an incredible amount of clerical time, people answering calls and so on, that's AI guided software. Uh. It's really cool. I've seen it work. 00:28:18,069 spk_0: So what I would say is that the, the thing about AI is it's excellent and it's only as good as the prompts and the data that you put into it. So the first step is to create the data. 00:28:29,799 spk_1: so these, 00:28:30,099 spk_2: these are, these are people half my age who are smart and know how to do. 00:28:36,500 spk_1: So what, how, how far along in development is it? 00:28:39,269 spk_2: Uh, they have San Jose, California is using it in a beta test, and they got two other, uh, you know, good sized cities where where the menu of things you would, you know, want from a city is very broad, uh, there are two others using it now. 00:28:56,000 spk_1: I wonder if they want a little town as a beta test. I don't 00:29:00,069 spk_2: know. 00:29:02,829 spk_2: But you know, this kind of reminded me a little of that. 00:29:09,369 spk_1: Well, Mark, um, since you would probably be spearheading regulations, what, what, what is your, what are your thoughts on, on that? 00:29:19,230 spk_6: Um, I was just gonna say I think we'll have a little time because. Oh 00:29:23,099 spk_1: yeah, the Attorney 00:29:23,970 spk_6: general has, I'm hearing they're very backlogged, so I'm hearing 6 months to a year before we we get some kind of answer from them. So, um, we have a little time to um to work on it, but, um. I would probably have an application, like, you know, we, we did the, we'll talk about site plan application later, but I'd probably tailor the application to the requirements and Try to make it easy for people because some people won't, you know, it'll be like a regular, it'll be a small project, so they won't have an engineer or so you got to kind of walk them through it, hold their hand a little bit, um. 00:30:07,700 spk_6: Can I, 00:30:09,769 spk_1: can I resolve this. 00:30:12,900 spk_0: Can I shift gears for just a second? Same same subject, different subs, uh, after the Special town meeting, I did hear from folks some fairly alarming things about misinformation after the vote. Um, so, two anecdotes specifically. I heard of two elderly people who were in an absolute panic thinking thinking that they were now going to lose their house and they were calling around trying to figure out how to get a second person living with them in their single family house and they were in an absolute terrified panic, um, and that's really. Cruel in my opinion that that misinformation is out there and causing that level of confusion and alarm and I'm just wondering whether we I feel like we did a very marginal to poor job of getting information out beforehand because there was so much background noise on 3A. It continues the misinformation continues and I'm just wondering if there's something that we. 00:31:21,670 spk_2: Do you think this is purposeful misinformation? 00:31:25,230 spk_0: Well, there's still there's, yes, 00:31:26,170 spk_2: there's still, yes, yes, yes, and in 00:31:31,829 spk_0: in addition to that, I feel that there were some missteps in this special town meeting, especially surrounding eminent domain, which I think the answer was handled rather ineffectively and um. I wonder if there's something that the planning board can do to assist in continuing to sort of uh uh dispel the myths out there. 00:31:59,500 spk_2: Oh, we could Make up a little list and publish it of the most grievous of these misunderstandings. What 3A won't do it won't take your property, it won't do this, it won't do that. It won't do that. 00:32:15,069 spk_0: Or should there be something on the website that's easy to find or what I'm, I'm, I'm open to to to ideas but I think this is the the best way I can describe it is it's cruel. You know, for, for opponents to, to spread this misinformation and create this kind of terror and the elderly. 00:32:37,930 spk_3: Maybe dispelling some of the myths about this and what is true and what is not true. And uh just very simple. response, you know, to uh. Do that and certainly get that 00:32:51,069 spk_0: on. So the question would be how to get it out there also you know get it how to get it out there so that it's accessible. 00:32:58,269 spk_1: Well, I mean certainly uh we could get it on the planning board's web page. It could be on the. 00:33:04,400 spk_2: Maybe we, maybe we have a place on the planning board website where people can ask questions. Will 3A do this and then. Some group of us are Mark, you know, just provides a one line answer and it's all displayed so that if 2 or 3 people had the same misconception, they'll see what the truth is. 00:33:28,200 spk_1: Well, that's a good idea, but also that the uh Hamilton 00:33:32,970 spk_0: newspaper would probably do the best job and so the question would be. You know, now that the vote is done, could there be an article or a, you know, a data sheet that's in there that helps dispel those myths, um, that's, that's not considered political at this point? I, 00:33:49,769 spk_3: I would think that any discussion we would have would have to be in a public forum. So if we're gonna respond to a question that should be done at a meeting. We, we have a list compile at the meeting we need to start with a, 00:34:05,069 spk_3: yeah, then we can respond as a board, you know, because I think it has to be done in public, so we're not 00:34:14,599 spk_0: You know, I, I hate to rain on the, on the celebration parade, but I just those kinds of reports were alarming and sad. 00:34:23,769 spk_1: Well, let's let's think about this. I mean we could even uh allocate time at one of our meetings where the public could come and ask questions now I there's there's a caveat here because I know the uh select board had an issue. Uh, they had a question and answer session with the, with the school superintendent, and that triggered. Uh, a complaint about under the open meeting law. So, uh, I, I would have to follow up with that to see if that. Uh, it's something that, that would work, um. But I think that compiling the questions and having the answers on the town's web. Page is certainly appropriate. 00:35:16,030 spk_4: And, and I would suggest it be framed in a not the spelling myth kind of because that's that's sometimes controversial but I think starting with Tom voted now what like it's interesting information that Mark has given it's like that would be probably good information for the rest of the town you know too like the town has voted. To apply the form-based code, but that doesn't mean it's automatically printed and in the books. It's currently with the attorney general, you know, that that would be a great question to start with. And in the meantime, here's what that means and then once applied, here's what that means. And then instead of like a dispelling myth. You know, you're right and we're wrong conversation. It's uh what's happening next conversation 00:35:58,369 spk_1: I think there's there's nothing on the table until the AD approves 00:36:02,429 spk_4: and that could be some time, um, and I think that would be that's information not a lot of people know about, um, probably nobody understands that they probably realize, you know, we voted yes that means it's. It's, it's gone, it's, it's, it's, it's been implemented, um, but that's not the case. But I think if we, I, I would suggest you, you know, if we were to craft that language. In the form of a memo to the select board saying here's helpful information that we think would be nice to be made public and then that could be either in the form of an article in the newspaper or some people consume information that way. Some people, uh, I know a lot of people get action on the town Facebook page for good or bad, um, so that's maybe an interesting place to put it to in addition to the. Maybe online, maybe all three places, but it, I think if it goes to the Texas 00:36:56,630 spk_2: way what I worry about is that if, if, if we try and Come up with something as opposed to just having an open town hall if you if you're concerned about 38. Come and ask us a question a question. In in the sense that. I'm not sure I can imagine all the. Horrible horrible things that people think, you know, is is going to result from 3A. Um, there may be some out there and if we just had a Uh, half hour. Open hearing something for you know for the next two meetings or some sometime like that um if nobody comes then we close that hearing, right? If there's 20 people there we can, you know, take all the time we need and um. I kind of like that idea. I'm just a little afraid I won't. We won't, um. Cover all the concerns of that. People may have been fed or believing. Mark, 00:38:00,170 spk_0: do you have any thoughts on this? 00:38:02,699 spk_6: I was gonna say that we could mail the letter to everyone in the district with not that many properties. Mhm. Send them a letter saying. 00:38:14,929 spk_6: answers and if you have other questions come to this. 00:38:21,130 spk_0: I mean, do you, I'm just reporting what I've heard. I don't know if anybody else has heard anything since the vote. 00:38:29,670 spk_4: I haven't really heard I think you also wanna be sent, you know, not reacting to the. Opinion of a couple people, you know, doing so much work to address. 00:38:42,000 spk_0: That's what I'm asking. It's, it's just, I'm just sharing, sharing what I've heard and then trying to. Figure out is, is it an action item? Is it not an action item? What, what action if you did take on it would be appropriate? 00:38:56,000 spk_8: There is some guidance already out there. um, I'm looking at it right now, and it uses the language pat doesn't like it's myth busting the MBTA Commun law by the MAPC that if we wanted to like repurpose that for our town into something that was kind of more. You know, not a political statement, something more focused on what our town's concerns are and people's concerns are. 00:39:22,630 spk_1: Could you share that with everybody? 00:39:24,769 spk_2: Yeah, that would be a good, a good place to 00:39:26,269 spk_1: start and just do, uh, you know, make sure to put in there, uh uh uh do not hit reply all to that but um. 00:39:36,730 spk_4: I think it would be interesting to just at least post on our page that that what you know, so what now 00:39:44,199 spk_1: you voted 00:39:44,829 spk_4: yes and it took the the the code is currently with the attorney general's office and we're 00:39:50,730 spk_1: waiting our response which I 00:39:51,829 spk_4: think that would be nice just to, 00:39:53,900 spk_2: yeah, that'd be step one and then I. People can come And talk at our meetings yeah 00:40:02,170 spk_4: yeah. 00:40:03,599 spk_5: So Marnie, this is Darcy. uh, it seems like if we hit all, all the metrics for putting this information out we could do the newspaper, Facebook, we could do a public forum, and the planning uh planning board website. I think if we did that, I, I think that. Would bring enough attention to it and people would have enough that there'd be enough avenues for people to seek out the information they're looking for. I'd say go with everything. Yeah, 00:40:32,829 spk_1: no, and I think that's true. So the, the first is that it's really not in effect yet until the uh. Attorney general, uh, blesses it, uh, but I, I think that that what Jonathan's point is going to is, uh, is private property rights. I mean 3A does not affect private property rights. I mean you still own your home and you, you are the, uh, captain of your ship. You can sell your home in a 3A district to another individual and you do, there is no, uh, obligation on your part to ever sell it. To a developer and so and similarly with eminent domain I mean a a a government entity can take property by eminent domain, but there has to be substantial cause for doing that and then uh if that were to happen, the, uh, the property owner has to be compensated with the fair market value of their property and so eminent domain and 3A are are. They're unrelated and and I. Absolutely can't see a scenario where any community would purport to take private property by eminent domain to make to to create uh 3A housing. 00:41:51,000 spk_0: I felt what was missing in the eminent domain answer was that historically speaking generally eminent domain is used for, you know, large infrastructure projects by the government in large areas like interstate highways in the 1960s and and dams. You know it's that kind of thing, not, not, not to take no and that that was missing that was missing that was missing in the answer 00:42:21,000 spk_2: unfortunately, unfortunately, community needs sometimes included urban redevelopment, 00:42:27,130 spk_1: uh. That that was 00:42:32,030 spk_0: I'm just saying generally historically speaking 00:42:34,329 spk_1: and 00:42:36,800 spk_0: I know that's why it was a hot potato at the public at the special town meeting and nobody wanted to answer it, you know, but it, it basically didn't get answered 00:42:45,769 spk_1: and, and I think no so anyway that's. 00:42:53,469 spk_0: That's, those are my comments. 00:42:57,329 spk_1: So we will get the uh information from that and then um. 00:43:05,869 spk_1: I think that uh. 00:43:09,769 spk_1: Mark, do you wanna take a stab at um. Kind of a 00:43:15,829 spk_1: I don't want to say FAQs but just a statement about the ramifications of uh 3A, the most important one that it's not in effect, and number 2 addressing, you know, potential fears that that property owners whose homes are in a 3A district might be compelled somehow some way to to sell their property to a developer or or to. Vacated because they're there it's not multi-family um just just something kind of broad, and then we can revisit this at our next meeting. Does that make sense? And I think if any of our board members have any kind of questions that they think maybe should be addressed in this uh uh uh. Hand out or or yeah and it would be it would be something that would be sent to um the newspaper or posted on Facebook um uh you could share that with Mark. 00:44:22,269 spk_6: OK, so in the next meeting I'll have some draft materials for you to review. 00:44:28,900 spk_5: You know, I, I, I this, I just have to say something earlier in the year, um, we had a, a, um, someone from the Hamilton Development Corporation going door to door asking people to that telling people they wanted first refusal if they go to sell and this was in the downtown area and I just think we have to be wary of those things and I think the town, some of the townspeople, especially downtown that had that experience. Uh, made them feel a little uncomfortable, so I think we should be very careful, um, you know, to, um, make sure that stuff like that doesn't happen. I think it's really important. 00:45:10,329 spk_1: So do we have any um. Direct evidence as to who. 00:45:17,570 spk_1: Yes, it was a part of the HDC was engaged in that. Yes, 00:45:21,730 spk_5: it was, yes, it was Scott Maddern, and I learned about it because I was watching a Fincom, um, a Fincom, uh, meeting, and he described what he had done, and, um, I just thought that was, was not a good, uh, thing for a Hamilton Development Corporation to be doing, but you know, with 3A in the in the background. I just didn't think it was, I didn't think it was ethical. And um I just think we need to you know make sure that if anyone's soliciting they also need to get permits from the police department so that was another thing um we just can't have people going around saying we want first refusals. 00:46:02,269 spk_1: Well, the question that I would have. Is whether Would be in the purview of the HDC and even if it were, is the HDC now going to. Or think about or be in the business of creating multi-family housing. I mean this is a rhetorical question in in the downtown area. 00:46:25,429 spk_5: Yes, I believe so, yeah, 00:46:29,329 spk_3: yeah, 00:46:29,530 spk_1: they did it. Well, they, they acquired property for the Willow Street project, yeah, so I wonder if they, um. Um, actually, uh, obtained any rights of first refusal. 00:46:46,230 spk_1: I, I don't Their their meetings are not recorded. I don't think they just have minutes. Is that correct? 00:46:54,900 spk_1: Does anyone know? 00:46:56,469 spk_5: I, I don't know. I, I know it was, um, it might have been, it might have been a different meeting, but I'm pretty sure it was an HDC meeting. 00:47:10,469 spk_5: I'm sorry, a Final meeting. And I learned that 00:47:15,570 spk_6: they meet at the uh public safety, so it would be difficult to record it. 00:47:22,630 spk_6: Right, right, and they meet 8 a.m. in the morning I think. 00:47:30,269 spk_1: Well, the whole, um, I'd have to, uh, refresh my recollection on, uh, the HDC's, uh, uh, authority if you will, and I think it was confined to the business district. 00:47:47,199 spk_1: And 00:47:47,599 spk_3: I think that's right, 00:47:49,170 spk_1: and we don't have a business district anymore. 00:47:54,400 spk_3: They, they went to, I think, 2 town meetings ago. They applied. They were looking for acquiring developing rights at Gordon Conwell and also the downtown. I think that was the business district at which I think they already had. They were trying to extend to be integral to whatever happens out of Gordon Conwell and that got approved 00:48:15,369 spk_1: I guess. Oh, I don't know. I mean their their whole, uh, the, the, the. The Commonwealth actually authorized the HDC, so their purview is the downtown. They, I don't think they've ever been authorized to, to get involved, uh, with Gordon Conwell. 00:48:35,000 spk_3: Uh, it was on the, uh, it was on the it 00:48:37,929 spk_1: was 00:48:38,900 spk_3: approved? I believe so. I think it went right through with everything else. 00:48:43,630 spk_0: Can, can we get a reference to what the enabling legislature is that. That defines what HTC does. 00:48:51,170 spk_1: You go to their web page it's there. OK. I just haven't read it. 00:48:57,670 spk_2: I thought HDC was the same legislation as a redevelopment authority that it's a pint size redevelopment authority. Redevelopment Authority has eminent domain. Doesn't it? I think so. Mark, do you know that? Yeah, redevelopment Authority does, and I, I remember when they were building the building across us down the way. Uh I, I asked them about where, how HDC was came to be, and they said, oh it's the same enabling legislation as a redevelopment authority. Pint size one. 00:49:44,170 spk_2: But I'm not 100% sure of that. 00:49:50,199 spk_1: Well, that's something we can certainly look into and I would suspect that um. The HDC has to look into that as well as uh uh. I, I'm not gonna get, get good um. Internet. Uh, service here to look that up. 00:50:09,170 spk_1: But uh that's something we could do. And so the question would be whether there uh. Their charter if you will, authorizes them to do that and if it does, then that's something that the people in town should should know about we should know about it. That's why I'm asking. Right, right, but, um, again because the, the whole downtown has been rezoned at least um hopefully it it will become effective when the AG um issues um uh her decision uh it it is something to to consider. 00:50:54,329 spk_1: And If for example uh our our our bylaw two bylaws were struck down in some way, um, then getting a right of first refusal for 3A housing by the HDC would be a meaningless effort. If it were just if the purpose of the right of first refusal was specified as 3A housing as opposed to just the acquisition of land in and of itself. 00:51:26,469 spk_1: Thorny. OK, 00:51:29,670 spk_4: sorry, the development zone. That's Listed in their charter or their legislature that whatever the documents they have on their website is, is, uh, the sections in the town zoned as the business zone B district and zoned commercial overlay districts where the corporation may carry out a development project consistent with this 00:51:50,329 spk_1: act. Yeah, so the overlay district, yeah, 00:51:57,369 spk_6: so that would have to be updated since that district. 00:52:10,269 spk_1: Any more uh discussion on that? 00:52:14,099 spk_3: Uh, just one thing, Mark, uh, in addition to 3A, any questions about form-based code, I guess would be part of this. Yes, 00:52:24,269 spk_1: yeah. So, so really we we're just at the uh inception of our discussions here because obviously we have to dispel uh misinformation and I'll also present uh really important information about the status of what the town voted on on July 14th um we need to consider this flow chart regulations and also, um, potentially design guidelines because the. The I was it the HDC that issued that has the design guidelines. There are design guidelines for the downtown, but they, they're really obs will be obsolete if the AG uh approves the form-based code. So we should think about that as well. 00:53:16,230 spk_2: So a development corporation does not have eminent domain powers by right, but the encompassing city can grant them eminent domain powers. 00:53:26,199 spk_1: I, I don't think that it has eminent domain powers. I, but I don't think they've been granted. I don't think I don't think they did in this case. 00:53:35,170 spk_8: No, yeah, the, the legislation says they can accept the choir other than by eminent domain. So I don't believe they have that bar. I haven't read the whole thing, but just from what I can tell. 00:53:46,429 spk_0: So again it would be useful to for us to clarify what the enabling legislation is and just sort of look at the big picture so I, 00:53:56,599 spk_1: I. 00:54:00,269 spk_1: I don't have web access so I, you know, 00:54:04,099 spk_0: it's not, I don't, it's not a task for tonight, 00:54:06,170 spk_1: but it's. 00:54:11,099 spk_1: So any further discussion on this? Yeah. So to be continued and and hopefully we'll have a little more clarity on this. 00:54:22,670 spk_3: The only other thing is there any interest in getting back I, 00:54:26,199 spk_0: I would definitely support that. 00:54:30,199 spk_3: I don't know, Mark, if you could, well, I don't know if you want is that a vote. 00:54:35,829 spk_1: Yeah, we could, we could conceivably, uh, do that. We could um vote 00:54:40,900 spk_0: to force um Matthew to come back. 00:54:47,000 spk_1: No, I think what we would have to do is, uh, request the select board to offer the expenditure of funds so that we could have, uh, UTL, uh, make a presentation to the select board about the implementation of the form-based code. 00:55:06,199 spk_4: Well that's start with um. Draft of a request for proposal. In that case, no, 00:55:12,429 spk_1: it wasn't included 00:55:13,369 spk_4: in that. No, I mean, 00:55:15,469 spk_0: doesn't doesn't seem like it needs to be that formal. It just needs to have an intention behind it, and it might be worth having a little bit of an explanation for the select board to understand why it's important, you know, maybe a Couple 00:55:27,400 spk_3: sentences, 00:55:32,170 spk_5: you know, uh, I actually the, the town manager is the one who would choose the, the consultant and it would be up to him. It really isn't the select board. 00:55:43,429 spk_3: Yeah, I think that's true, 00:55:45,099 spk_1: yeah, so we'd have to just wait there. But 00:55:47,369 spk_4: when we need to like. At least dock it or or write what we hope to get out of the effort. If it's not a request for proposal, it would be helpful for. The town manager and U to understand in writing like what it is we're asking for. 00:56:03,530 spk_3: Yeah we could do a draft then to maybe for the next meeting. 00:56:10,429 spk_3: And then kick that around if that's OK, then we'll 00:56:13,300 spk_1: yeah so are you are you. Um, for, for you to flush out this type of flow chart or or suggest, 00:56:22,230 spk_3: uh, I don't think the flow chart will be part of the code, but no, 00:56:25,300 spk_1: it wouldn't be part of the code. It would be part of the regulations. 00:56:28,469 spk_3: They're going to show us how to administer the code in a in a. Uh, in a consistent manner. Uh, from beginning to and trying to answer all types of questions that we're gonna be confronted with. Where we may find a little bit of confusion into nonconformities and whatever. So they, it would be to create something like this, a flow chart of really what is the process going through from beginning to end. In dealing with the code, 00:56:58,869 spk_1: right, but there are many permutations in dealing with the code, 00:57:02,429 spk_3: yeah, yeah, it has to get simplified because it'll, it's got to be, I think a single page, but the uh. I, I think it would be useful that I've seen that before done in a pretty effective way and uh. 00:57:16,599 spk_4: Alright, is it a design guide document or rules and regs document, or are we asking for both? It's how 00:57:22,469 spk_3: to read the code, the code now, so it's not guidelines, but read the code and administer it to an applicant when they come in so that we're. Fair and consistent throughout the whole process in dealing with 00:57:36,769 spk_4: it's an owner's manual for the code. 00:57:40,869 spk_0: And it would tend to inform the it would inform the regulations and the guidelines, you know, that, that sort of tutorial would inform those two efforts. 00:57:51,699 spk_3: Yeah, because I would bet there, you know, some members on on the board now. You know, might be A little hesitant about what's the first step, what's the second step, and so forth, where to go and. So I think it'd be good to have that at least that one session with them. 00:58:09,269 spk_1: Well, it, 00:58:10,630 spk_4: is it, sorry, is it a document they're developing or is it training 00:58:13,300 spk_3: for it's a training exercise 00:58:15,300 spk_4: cause people 00:58:16,000 spk_0: change. Well, that's why I'm saying it would, it would tend to help inform the process of building the guidelines and the regulations we can 00:58:25,599 spk_3: take what we learn we can take what we learn and put it into 00:58:28,500 spk_4: a char, right, 00:58:30,469 spk_0: yeah, so it builds, it builds the first step in institutional memory and then we put that into documents and then that lives beyond this group of people 00:58:39,070 spk_1: since you have some experience in, in, in this, could you just draw some language and then we can um. You know, I can, well, between the two of us we can put it in, uh, into an email to the town manager requesting him to uh expand the funds so that we can have this training, let's call it, it's training, isn't it essentially training 00:59:03,099 spk_0: good questions about why. We can rely on that from you or what's that? Uh, well, 00:59:15,369 spk_1: I'm amenable to to to a vote to initiate the process and then also once we have the language, uh, we can vote to actually um hit send so I, I, does everyone agree that that a training on how to use this code is warranted. 00:59:35,099 spk_0: Yes, so it, so we're making a motion that Amil writes something. Is that what we're making a motion on? 00:59:47,170 spk_1: Yes, yeah, agreed to yield a response and then everyone can review the language because, you know, more brains are better than one or two so you know once you see what what's drafted, um, you might.