Elementary School, um, we are also offering the meeting, uh, electronically via Zoom. Um The a it also is being broadcast on HWCAM. Tonight we are here to discuss the status of the MBTA 3A zoning amendment, um, Including the recent, I think we should probably have a little conversation about the town’s action taken recently,

um, and then some discussion and a vote on recommending or not, the MBTA3A zoning amendment warrant article for June 9, 2025 special town meeting. We have already held the public hearing on the zoning amendment as proposed. So in the meeting is that hearing has been closed, um, at our last meeting, we deliberated for a moment, uh,

or two, and took, in fact, a straw poll, but did not take a formal vote on whether or not to recommend the zoning amendment forward to the select board for placement on the warrant. So, With that, I think we can, oh, we can begin the conversation. Is there, um, is there a report from staff, or

should I ask Mr. Pascarello to report on. I’d be I don’t recall the precise date, but the, the, um, select board authorized and the town has filed a Civil action lawsuit, um, which is consolidated in front of Judge Gilday, challenging, um, certain aspects of 3A under the unfunded mandate. Provision, um, certain classifications for the

town of Wenham as Uh, with respect to the number of units we’re required to have, and I believe one of the counts concerns the lack of fiscal impact study for the state. So, Um A motion for a preliminary injunction has been filed the state has responded, um, opposed and filed a cross

motion to dismiss as it did in the other cases, um. There were 5 towns who initially filed there was previously a motion hearing held, I believe there are two other towns that also have filed in addition to Wyndham Duxbury and Weston. And we are waiting for a motion hearing date. Which We thought

might happen this week, but I don’t think it’s happening this week. So. That is the status that there’s a pending motion for a preliminary injunction that’s been filed, um. And we expect there’ll be an argument on that and a. Cross motion to dismiss if you had to guess, would you guess that there’ll

be a decision on the preliminary injunction before the special town meeting. If I had to guess, I would guess that there will be a hearing this month. Um Judge Gildea has already taken under advisement. Substantially similar motions by other towns, which happened back in the beginning of April.

So I think there’s a good chance that there could be a decision. Before our special town meeting on the motions. Thank you for that update. That’s helpful. Um I know the there’s other claims in the lawsuit about the treatment of, um, Wenham in the as-applied sense that is that the regulations as applied to Wenham are arbitrary and

capricious and otherwise irregular. So, I, I don’t, I don’t know whether the unfunded mandate claim or the arbitrary and capricious claim is more compelling, but I did just so people know, those are the range of arguments out there, um, and there’s a Request that Uh, for mandamus that EOHLC actually issued the fiscal impact statement.

Their response as we did issue one, we said there’s no fiscal impact. Right which and it wasn’t very compelling, I’ll say the fiscal statement that they did. Um, so tonight we have to decide what we are doing as far as voting on the amendment as we have constructed it, um, the bylaw,

as we’ve constructed it. We are led to understand that without a favorable vote forward, um, and whether that’s tonight or at the town meeting itself. Um We need to have Positively moved this forward or something of the same character cannot come back before the town if the town rejects it. For 2

years, so we would be out of compliance for 2 years. We’d need a favorable planning board vote. In order for something similar to come back. So we’ve received differing Legal opinions on that issue. It’s, I would say, Dave, feel free to wait on this, that it’s, that question’s unresolved. Um But it certainly presents an interesting Question.

Could somebody explain to me the difference between we referred this on to the select board for inclusion on a warrant. Versus our recommendation, right? So I, as I understand it, we’ve already moved this forward. So now the other vote is, what do we think about it? Correct. Do we vote? We do we like it as

written and report to the town that we think this is good for the town. Well, I wouldn’t say that. I quite in that way, I would say we are voting to move this forward because it’s the best we, I personally would say it’s the best we can do, but

didn’t we already do that? Yes. we didn’t say we approved this. We just simply recommended it forward. Thank you. So the favorable sorry I interrupt, but the language from the statute about a favorable vote from the planning board. Speaks to this question about what we need to do. You know how I

think in the warrant, there’s always a, I get it I get it, but I, I, that’s why I’m talking to Dan’s point. We’ve kind of already recommended the town that it passes muster. If it didn’t pass muster, we wouldn’t have said to the select board, you can include on a warrant. We’ve already

sent it to, we’ve, we’ve done our work on the we’ve sent it back to the select board. To put on the warrant. There’s a statutory requirement that a planning board make a recommendation to town meeting, that we have not done that yet. Correct. And so that is uh just the terminology, the, the

recommendation part is what we haven’t done. We need to do that before town meeting or at town meeting or before it’s presented to town, the town needs to know what our recommendation is, which should be 5 minutes before the meeting we’d have to notice the. Correct. The hearing, but so I

think what you’re getting a hearing, it’s a meeting. Correct. The, the warrant, I just want to be clear. No, I just, I was just gonna say logistically, I think where you’re going with this is the timing is, it just has to be before town meeting. What our formal recommendation is, and I

don’t think, I think it can be at town meeting. But the warrant will be published with a no recommendation from the planning board in it. If we don’t do it tonight. That’s correct because we’re running into the deadline for the warrant. And I know somebody’s online ready to report that

result if it does come to that, to the select board this even the select board is meeting right now also, but they’re taking up the warrant discussion, probably by 7, 7:30. So once you decide what you want to do, then I’ve, after we’re here, I’m gonna run over to the select boards, um, and

you’re all invited to attend that afterwards, that warrant, as long as you snacks? Yeah. Sorry, um, yeah. So depending on what you do now, I will let the, um, select board know. And then once they close the warrant tonight. Your recommendation or lack thereof will be in the warrant, yeah.

So So, further discussion, is that where we’re going? Um, It’s So we, we, OK, so we covered. This ground, I think twice at our last meeting about the timing for our formal recommendation, straw poll, whatever. Given the development with the town filing suit and Um In filing a motion for a preliminary injunction, the standard for motion for

preliminary injunction is you have to have the court has to find that you have a reasonable likelihood of success on the merits. That’s one of the prongs for injunctive relief. You also have to show a irreparable harm and that the balance of harms would be in your favor, but Given that

we’ve got an injunction motion that’s pending and then it could be decided before town meeting. Um, and it likely will have a pretty big impact on the remainder of the suit. So, if we prevail on a motion for preliminary injunction, the court is effectively saying we have a likelihood of success on

At least one of our claims. Um I, I think it would be premature for us to make a formal recommendation to town meeting tonight while that is out there. So I would recommend that we wait a bit longer before we make a recommendation to town meeting. Any discussion? Um, I, I get, I get why you say

that, Dan, and I, uh, and I respect kind of the, the thought there. Here’s my thinking. Kind of from the scenarios. There’s 3 options that happen. 4. The first is Uh After tonight, But before the town meeting, The court, uh, Grants the motion to dismiss or denies the motion for

preliminary injunction. Um, I suppose in that same, so if that happens, Then there’s nothing on the warrant to guide the town at the time of town meeting. That doesn’t stop. An or someone else from standing up and saying. Here’s where we are. Given this development. But it doesn’t give any

indication in advance to folks who pick up the warrant booklet. The second scenario is that, um, But we would have a better. I think we’d have a better ability to vote in that circumstance. The second situation. In terms of whether or not we want to recommend because the lawsuit would be

over effectively. The second scenario is we don’t get a response until after town meeting. In which case, I think we kind of have to vote as a town or at least as a board with the expectation. That it’s going to be denied or that we’re going to lose the lawsuit. Cause I don’t. Anyhow, and then

there’s the scenarios where It’s granted, obviously before town meeting. That would actually encourage the most are taking the vote tonight. In my opinion, because that’s the easiest news to deliver. That might even cancel. Well, I don’t know if it would cancel the town meeting, but It’ll obviate the whole thing and that’ll be the end of it.

And then the final scenario is that it’s granted after town meeting. I think in all of those scenarios, I don’t know how. Well, I just presented that. I think we do the town the best service. By Voting tonight. To give some indication in the warrant book. Um I really don’t see the harm. Uh, it doesn’t

look like there’s gonna be. Discovery What’s to discover this board faced with a Hobbesian choice. What is it Sophie’s a bad choice, a choice with no good outcome made a recommendation. And, uh, do you mean discovery in the litigation. Oh, they’ll be discovery in the litigation if, if it’s not, but what’s to discover? plenty to discover

what what did EOHLC do? OK, sorry, Discovery of us relative to our recommendation. Yeah, I’m Yeah, I’m in touch with. No, no, that’s what I mean. It’s like, what, what does it matter what we do today? How is that relevant, um, To the town’s position to the town’s position in the litigation. I don’t know

that it is. I mean, they’re gonna say, well, you’re, you’re prosecuting this lawsuit, but your own planning board recommended in favor of it. I mean, sure, take my deposition. I’d love to talk. You know, like, yeah, I’d love to talk about the, the position that this board was in. You know, I

don’t know that I don’t know that it harms us. That’s one person’s thought. I tend to agree with that, um, I’m also This notion that you can’t bring anything back within 2 years. Suppose the town votes this down, which is a possibility. Um, we could not bring anything substantially,

it’s not substantially similar. That’s the wrong statute. It of the same character back, um, in 2 years, we’d be out of compliance for 2 years and we would be losing a fair amount of state money during that period if we’re not successful in the lawsuit, um, Unless we could bring something back

within that two-year period if the planning board gave a favorable vote to this, which doesn’t necessarily mean A round full-hearted endorsement of the this that we have to work with because this is what we can do. With what we’re working with. Not maybe the best. But see, I think that’s

the vote we already took, right? That’s me, to me, that’s the vote we already took was we did the best we could do. No, no, no, no, no, the vote that we sent it off to the warrant. That was the vote that said, to me that This may not be perfect,

but yes, we did the best we could. We’ve given it to the select board. If you want to put it on the warrant, do it. So that, that to me got their approval. Now we’re just giving our opinion and our opinion can wait till the very end because

who are we? I mean, we are the planning board, I get it, but, um, With 400 people in that room saying, whatever the result is of our, our, our, our opinion. Um, I think that’s valid time. I think to, to, to, to kind of parrot with Dan says.

Let’s wait till we get more information, right? Um, and we have almost 30 days between now and then to do, I mean, it’s a holiday in there, so a little less, but, um, I think we should be waiting and I, I think the only thing that’s different now than was the case before is that now there’s a

preliminary injunction pending and there’s no guarantee that that will be decided. No, between last time we met and now, the town filed. And there’s a preliminary injunction and there’s a preliminary that’s a motion for preliminary injunction. You could That’s the only thing that’s different. That’s a lot though, right? I would think

that’s a lot for the town to be guarantee that the court will act before I know, but we don’t know the answer yet. No, but the fundamental difference is the select board decided to file a lawsuit. Under the, you know, one is that one of the claims is under the unfunded mandate. Why would we take a

position that’s fundamentally at odds with what the select board has done. I don’t think we are, but we would be. Like, why would we I think we would be, I think we’d be putting the The, the cart out in front of the horse here. There’s no need

for us to do this tonight, I think people are going to be paying attention at town meeting to see what the recommendation is. Um, I think we’re overvaluing the one line in the warrant that says, Planning board number, you know, whatever, 3 to 24 to 11 to 4, whatever it is, um. If it says

recommendation is pending. I mean, people are following this issue. So I do think that there’s potential harm if we get out in front of this and take, um, And, and, and take a position that it could be at odds with what our litigating position is. I, I don’t see that it’s at odds with the

litigating position at all because the litigating position has to do with whether or not the state properly applied the regulations. We’re not, that’s not this vote. This vote is, did we do the best we could with what we had, or did we follow the law? Can we recommend this forward because

it satisfies to the best of our ability, the regulations we’re dealing with, that’s all it says. That’s not what the recommendation to town meeting is. Yeah, sure it is. No, the recommendation to Tom meeting is we think the town should adopt this or we don’t think the town should adopt this.

Well, if we, if we don’t say we think the town should adopt this, and it fails at town meeting. Then we’re, then we, and we don’t win this lawsuit, then we’ve got 2 years where we’re non compliance for the 2 years, I know that town council said it’s 2 years. What is the differing opinion we’ve

received on that. The statute says 2 years, um, well, the statutory, so the, the dispute is when does the less provision kick in in the statute. So, I don’t have it in front of me, but to paraphrase. It basically says if you bring something, um, a zoning. Ordinances or or amendment to Either your city

council or town meeting. I can bring it up and it’s and it’s all right, let me just wrap this up there. And it’s acted on unfavorably. You cannot bring a substantially similar. Proposition back within 2 years of the same character. Within 2 years. Unless the planning board has recommended its

approval. So the dispute is When does the planning board have to give its approval? Is it the first go around or is it the second go around? So I would argue it makes more sense that it’s the 2nd go around and not the 1st go around. I Opinions can differ on this. I say that because there’s a

similar exception provision in a different section of the statute, um, so if a developer comes before us and asks for zoning relief and they don’t get it, they can’t come back within 2 years. It’s a 2-year bar, but there’s an exception provision. Unless such and such happens. So, I would think that

the exception provision should apply when you’re considering the exception to the two-year ban. Right that not the first go around. So that’s, that’s why I think it’s an open question. There’s also a question about what of the same character means because if you came back with a different

Bylaw that met a different set of rules. Is that of the same character or not. We don’t know and I don’t know the case law well enough to know. Well, I would just say, let’s say we bring the exact same proposal back, OK? Um. I think practically speaking, I don’t see a court saying you can’t do

that within 2 years when there’s a state mandate, um, I, I also don’t see a court telling the attorney General. Sorry, Attorney General, you can’t. Bring action to, um, to enforce the statute or bring, you know, somebody into compliance because there’s this two-year bar. I mean, I, I

think the Attorney general is going to seek to enforce and a court’s going to say, yes, you can bring this up for so it will be I think considered called this provision a ban on reconsideration of defeated items that haven’t received the planning board’s blessing. Who said that? Sorry court in Penn

versus Barnstable. Yes, so that’s the issue. So the Penn versus Barnstable case, there, there is a decision by a trial court judge who said it was, he thought the provision. And was for the first go around. The interesting thing about that case is that both of the parties on the appeal said, we

think the court got it wrong and it’s really the second go around, but the appeals court didn’t consider that issue. The governor wants 370 or so so units of of of housing in our town. I am sure that if we don’t approve it and the governor wants those units, they’re going to reconsider it

as soon as we have a policy that conforms to their thing, right? Because she’s hell bent on getting this. So I think politically it’s going to overrule whatever case law we have because they’re gonna want to get it done. And the other question, the other thing I have is, It’s not Our

recommendation is, do we think In the future, for the future of Wenham. This is a good idea. Not did we do the best we could do given the constraints of the law, but as elected officials, we need to say, do we believe this is the best for Wenham.

And that’s where I, I think we differ in what that vote means. I, I look at it as, uh, If this happens, we have the potentially potential all potential I’ll start using lawyer terms. We potentially have the, the liability of roads, schools, maintenance, all that kind of stuff. We also

have the potential of changing the character of the town. And once we open the door, you know what I mean, then the doors open. So I think we have to decide what we’re voting on. Are we voting? We did it the best we could do or we’re

voting this is the future we see for Wenham. Well, it’s a state mandate and the state mandate includes a suite of regulatory requirements, which we have done the best job we can do. to comply with. So that doesn’t mean that any of us necessarily would write the statute the way it was written

or write the regulations the way they were written, or certainly we wouldn’t apply them the way they’ve been written, but it’s not as though. Get dark in here. Yeah, would you mind just getting up and walking around there’s motion. I think the lights go off emotion activated. Here you go.

See if we were having a public hearing, public hearing, it would be like public hearing, public hearing, it would be like you are the man, we need some more gesticulation we need to be waving our arms are Italians up here too. We should be able to do that. Um, I forget where I was, but you

know what I, but you know what I mean. I, I don’t, I don’t think any of us would be, would be putting this forward. In the best interests of the town on our own. Volition I think it’s a mandate. And if we don’t comply with it, the town

doesn’t get a whole lot of money. So I, I, that’s just So I know we just disagree. That’s OK. That’s just two different a point that both of you made, which Yes, it’s a mandate, um, and eventually we’re gonna have to Adopt a 3, I mean, I think

eventually we’re gonna have to adopt a bylaw. Um, But We did, and, and we did the best. I think we did the best that we did, but we did the best that we could under the rules that were given to us and The main reason why I think we ought to

wait a little bit longer is because one of the goals of the lawsuit is Challenging the rules as they’re applied to our town. And the key is the key issue here in the litigation is those metrics could change. So We’ve, we’ve done the best we could, but it’s for 365 units and it’s for so many here and

so many over there, um, if a result of this lawsuit, you know, by disposition or settlement or otherwise is all right, one of them, you don’t have to do 365. We’re gonna, we’re gonna say it’s 219, then we wouldn’t have drafted this the same way, although we have a sunset provision, don’t we,

that we’ve agreed to? We have a sunset provision, yes, but there’s no guarantee that the Attorney general is going to Look favorably upon our sunset provision. And so only speaking personally, if the number of units were halved. Right, or this unfunded mandate gets resolved in some way. My opinion might change. Because I think we’re being treated

unfairly by the Commonwealth, uh, so. I think we need to give it more time. Before I can come up with, hm, OK, so today if nothing changes, then I’m probably still gonna think the same way I did, but if they’re cutting the units by half, and

we can have it spread over a further area or we’re going to get some reimbursement for, let’s say, road infrastructure, then my opinions change. And that’s why I don’t think we’re at a point where we can. I can honestly do it. I’d have to abstain tonight. I, I think we, we also went on record two

weeks ago. Like, I know we’re calling it a straw vote. now, but it, it wasn’t a straw vote until after we all set our piece. So I think that anybody who’s been paying attention knows the opinion. The opinions of the board members, um. If you’re watching, if, if, if you’re watching, um, but, you

know, the, the public hearing is available, um, We, we definitely have changed circumstances, um, but I, I think we all know how we feel about what we’ve put forward over the past 2 years and I’m, I’m not gonna. Repeat everything I said two weeks ago, but. We, we have provided, um,

our thoughts and feelings and opinions on On this Does Scott you have anything you wanna say? Uh, I mean, I would, the only thing I would add is that I do think the filing of the suit. Merits us waiting a little longer, and that would, I was

in favor of taking the vote at the last meeting. So my opinion has changed on that. I do think that it’s enough of a change that we can wait. And I also do think that the town. Hearing our opinion from the floor at town meeting we’ll have equal

power to reading it. In the Warren book. I guess all I would add is, uh, Nobody asks my opinion about filing the lawsuit. And I’m not upset about that. Nobody asked, I don’t think anybody’s opinion on this board, at least as I’m aware of. And um I’m not saying anyone should have, but I don’t

think anybody’s worked as hard on this as this board has. And um. We’ve worked too hard. The tragedy of 3A is that we have lost. Countless meetings and time from this board. To chase and exercise that none of us feels so terrific about. And I guess it hit me last meeting. And then especially when I saw

HW news and what Hamilton’s now put forward. Mm I mean, wow, Hamilton, you actually are doing something with 3A that looks like something. You might benefit from. It just breaks my heart that this board I stuck in limbo. Yet more time is being spent on something that is not frankly productive for

this town. We have so much to do from the master plan which. There’s a lot of opportunity there. Part of me is like, you know what? Nobody gave me a call before the lawsuit. I’m gonna make my vote on recommendation one way or the other, and it’s out of our hands and let’s spend the next

month. Thinking about what’s really gonna make this town better and move it forward. And what’s in the master plan because to me, It’s just a total waste of time. And it’s been once this moved litigation is for the weak. Politics is for the power, powerful. As soon as it went into that

posture, we were done. And it, it breaks my heart because this board and many others have worked so hard, spent so much time, and here’s where we are and the icing on the cake again was looking at Hamilton and what they came up with. I’m just like, what happened here is a town. Why? I’m not saying

we didn’t do our best. It’s just breaks my heart that we’re gonna spend more time and be stuck in further limbo when we really need to be moving forward this town toward the vision and the The vision in the master plan that we all worked so hard on. So that’s my soapbox and it’s not directed

at anybody on this board or really anyone in this town is just more my gripe about where we are. And I’ll do whatever you all want for once in my life on this board. All right, so I’m hearing a lot of people say we should not vote tonight.

I, I’m gonna make a motion that we defer our recommendation, um, Until Before town meeting or at town meeting. I’ll second that Alright We have a motion in a second. Any further discussion of that? No Starting at this end, Mr. Anderson, Anderson, no. Weeks I Pascaello I John McGarry Woodland. So I’m

persuaded. We will stand up and a soft shoe at the meeting. We can practice at my house if you want. I get some music. OK, next item of business, and I, I’m sorry, Ian. What was that boat? You had a it was 41. should defer. That was Dave was

no it was a no. Thank you. OK. All right, so I think we’ve hit those 2 bullets. Um The next thing on the agenda is an update on the project to update the subdivision rules and regulations. Yeah, so we’re Um, I did go back to the town administrator with your recommendation for Innis

Associates and we are working on the contract with them. So we should have that ready next week to go and we can start that project, um. Grant funding’s in place and We should be all set to go. So, um, Emily Innes is the owner and,

um, of the firm. She’ll set up a meeting with this board as a kickoff meeting, and we’ll go over scheduling and expectations, um, at that time. Will she want to do that at one of our regular scheduled meetings or will she want a special hour long time with us at a different time. I think it

can be up to you, to this board, what you’d like to do if you want to do it at your regular meeting, um, or set something up. Or if you want to appoint, you know, maybe 1 or 2 members of the board to work with her after that? Well, I think it

would be nice to have the kickoff meeting with the whole board present hear what she has to say. Give her some thoughts about what’s needed because I think each one of us has some ideas about that, um, and then see where we are. Yes, OK, fine. Uh, so, um, after we get the contract signed with Emily.

I’ll talk to her and see what, what, how much time she thinks she’ll need to do the kickoff meeting. And then I’ll discuss with you and you can decide if you want to have a separate meeting, especially for that. She’s probably a professional meeting holder. It, I, I, it would be appreciative, I think

from my perspective, if she could just do some kind of session where we brainstorm that we just like talk about what our visions are, uh, because I, I, I think you, you brought it up, but something formal like a half hour we could just, I don’t know if they’re still sticky still, you

know, we can just do that, but just to get out ideas quickly so she knows what direction we’re in. OK, terrific. And to Mr. Anderson’s point, we have a. To plan now that we I want to make sure that she’s aware of and that What she’s doing reflects all the elements that we are trying to move forward.

OK. Very good. All right. Thank you, Margaret. Yep, thanks. So we have to re-elect officers. So, um, because we had the election. And you know we have David’s been voted in again. So now we have to have a new election of officers. The, the town’s new regulation is that you have to have a chair, a

vice chair, a clerk, and if you have a board that manages funds, you have to have a financial officer. This board does not have your own funding source. So it’s like the Affordable Housing Trust would need one conservation on so but you don’t have a planning fund, so, um. So yeah, I’ll let you.

Discuss and You, so you need chair, vice chair, and a clerk. The duties of the clerk are listed in the paper I gave you and all of the clerical work of the board, including the correspondence, sending of notices this, it seems to me that’s like a stat that’s what a staff person does, so I don’t

know why. There are some boards that don’t have staff, and so they do need these people. Uh, they would need a clerk from one of their members, but Um, I think what the clerk on your committee might do is Look at minutes, review minutes or? Just Be called clerk, cause all of this stuff is what what we

do, what I can one person be the clerk and the vice chair? Because our vice chair now is an excellent. I, I would You prefer not to not really want to take on clerk duties if that’s what the no, no, I know if Catherine and I decide to

leave, then it’s all on that clip. Um Yeah, so I, yeah, again, the clerk is just one of those, I think, because if a board doesn’t have staff people. They would have to do that, but that’s definitely what we would do a clerk person, but they really just make sure the minutes get on the agenda and,

and they’re filed, but the administrative person does all the lifting, yeah. Yeah. shall undertake. Just a position in name for, you know, these are rules and regulations. These, yes, the article 2 organization is in your rules and regulations, uh, your administrative rules and regulations and then from the general bylaw Article 5, that

was what they um Voted in, I think a year or two ago. to have somebody appointed from their board to oversee those finances and regulations, but I just saw the low, yeah, and the bylaw says we have to have a clerk. Um So I guess what, you

know, you have to discuss. To somebody who wants to be the chairperson, who wants to be vice chair, and then you Accept the nomination. Someone has to nominate somebody, and then that person would accept it and then you would vote. fill them in. Yeah So. Someone has to. Um Do you guys want to keep doing

what you’re doing? Do you want to do it? I, I, let’s get this moving. It’s like, it shouldn’t be a big process, right? Correct. That’s what I’m looking at 7:30. I’ll need to be out. Uh I will, I will be clerk as long as you don’t leave. And Catherine, don’t forget Catherine. And I’m, I’m

fine with. The current situation. It’s, it’s A question for you this, it’s a lot of It’s fine with me. I can. Unless you want it. I’d like to make a motion that we um don’t need to make a motion or just you accepted, you’re all accepted. to nominate. OK, so I’d like to nominate, uh, and

yes, a slate and weeks as chair Dan Pescarello as vice chair and Scott Schomberg. Schomburger, um, as clerk. Second Uh, so now you all three have to say, we accept that nomination if you do it you do it in uni you do it you do it

in uni you do it you do it in uni you do it because we’re a slate. We got to lighten it up. I accept the nomination. I accept the nomination. I accept the nomination now. You can vote them all at once if you want. Anderson and I.

Weeksa Paro Schomburger Woodland, uh, I. Why is that vote the most complicated one that we have to. No, that was really good. We got it done. I Meeting minutes. No. You want me to bring them up, um, I don’t have them. There are only 2 sets of them, there’s only 2 session. Yeah, the executive session set is

not ready. So, um, Catherine noted these were really complicated. Meetings, I redlined both. The 16th and the 9th, um, the 16th was our meeting when we all went on record towards the end of the meeting and then turned it back into a straw vote at the public hearing. So I recommend that

you look closely at how you were summarized at the end. So perhaps we’re not ready to vote on that. Is that what you’re saying? No, if you can bring it up, I have not looked at them and I’m not gonna be able to see it this far away. Uh yeah,

we’re not gonna be able to see it so then I move that we table the minutes from the, from April 9 and. April 16th to our next meeting. I’ll second that motion. All right, all in favor Anderson I Pas Woodland. Other matters Um Margaret, do you have anything? No, I don’t think we have anything

important. Mr. Anderson does, and I have something, so you don’t Taken by your point about Hamilton’s multifaceted zoning proposal. I’d like to really look at that. I’d like to think about how Wenham can do something. With what we Have to offer read because. What I want is the chair’s blessing.

For you to let me and someone else. And maybe others form a. Subcommittee special committee select committee, blue ribbon Committee, whatever the committee’s name is. I like I like I like peerless peerless on this to get creative as opposed to defensive and really take the bulls by the horn. And deliver Something interesting? I’m 2030. Just something

interesting, something that can get people like, this is actually interesting. This is thought provoking for Wenham. It’s It’s sensible. It’s enriching. It’s something that actually makes sense from a livability sustainability, community enrichment perspective. It’s just wild thoughts. Can I just ask what you’re talking about? Like what kind of subcommittee? Are you talking about outreach to

Hamilton or, yeah, like a zoning bylaw study committee which you can implement some of the ideas of the master plan of 3A if it goes forward of all this stuff. And you got the chair’s blessing. I think it would be I would much rather be working. I would work on that. I Yeah, I was, I had reached

out to Dave about this because when I actually saw what Hamilton had put out and my question was more wondering if What the board’s discretion is to be proactive and targeted zoning changes or things that we thought would be more beneficial to the town thinking on behalf of the town. So we’re

implementing a master plan which we just completed, we do have that ability. I think spot zoning is not so great, but I think thoughtful, creative, what does one on one look like in 2030 is certainly. We did have a discussion about an implementation committee and we didn’t move that forward, so I

think this might be a way to bridge to the, to an implementation group. To go back in the way back machine, um, pre 3A, um, And I guess for your benefit because you weren’t, you weren’t here. So there was a time when we as a board were having conversations about What are we going to do

revising our zoning bylaw, and are we gonna, you know, where are we going to put, um, potential overlay districts that are gonna Loosen the restriction on one acre zoning or whatever, something more creative cluster developments or multi-use and then the whole process kind of got hijacked by

3A, um, I’ve not been on a planning board without 3A. It’s OK, so I’ve not seen that we were having conversations about this, about. You know, many years ago because there are parts, there are parts of town that sort of the older part near here, right, that have Smaller than 1 acre lots, um,

denser development, um, I mean, we heard plenty of concerns about people aging out of the community because it’s too expensive, uh, kids can’t, um, you know, come back because it’s too expensive. So, you know, what sort of options do we have? And then everything just went. 3 and to a lesser

extent master plan. There was, there was an intermediate step where we said, gosh, let’s look at the master plan for the town and see what it says about how to get creative. And the master plan, then we discovered for the town was dating from 1980. So then we thought, ah, 6 of whatever it was 60. Feels like

yesterday, um, but step one was OK, before we 5 people sitting here, decide what’s best for the town in 2030, we had better update the master plan and it better be an open and involved process, which I feel really good about. I feel it was.

So now we’ve, OK, taken step one, now we can take step 2, but then It, the bombshell of 3A dropped. Right at that point, so those things I was mentioning are part of the master plan. Um, It’s just we haven’t had Time really or ability to discuss them in in detail. So, Yeah, I think that

that’s a good idea, Dave, if it’s sort of a, like a. Idea, um, incubator. That Presentatives. I have a question though about Hamilton. I read the article in the HW News and I saw the, you know, the multicolored graph, but have they actually put a detailed plan for it. I thought

that they hadn’t done that yet, that they’re waiting till their next meeting to. I thought they’re getting ready to vote on it in 3 weeks at this special town meeting that they’re doing with the school because the public hearing is coming up right on there they haven’t had that yet a hearing

yet, I mean they must. Have something ginned up if they’re gonna go for it. Well, they’ve also, they’re, they’ve done a 10 citizen petition. As well to ask for an exemption from 3A, so. Right, just a different lawsuit from the one we’re engaged in, but. It’s not there. That’s gonna be interesting on

the standing. issue, but because it’s not the town itself that filed the suit, um, but remember it’s It’s not just about. The downtown in Boulder Lane Parcels. I mean, that’s where, that’s the tragedy of 38 Dan’s Point and what I keep harping on is we had that beautiful two-page map.

That identified target zones the iron rail, there’s Gordon College, there’s a lot coming up. There’s properties, there’s large properties, and for the large, for, for, for large part we’ve lost A lot of sight of that, and even things like food trucks. I mean like down to the practical little things that

make a town better. You know what I mean? We don’t have rulings or laws around zoning on that. Right, and, and commercial uses, um, particularly around the train station, around the village mixed use, um. Other types of opportunities. And what I think is too bad is that there’s

people with Uh, stakeholders in this town. That we are assuming. That I would assume are making decisions are in the process of making decisions. I don’t know if they’ve been waiting for this board or for this town, but that was a year ago. It’s like it’s time to start, it was gonna take a long time.

Let’s have some fun. Let’s, let’s. Make some maps and see what we can come up with. So at least we don’t have to feel like we’re constantly on the defensive. I get 3A is the is the elephant in the room or the Boogeyman. Whatever, but We don’t have to. Our board doesn’t have you paralyzed by

that. Let’s, let’s keep going and we have other Um, we, like, like the CPA is a great way to help bring those dreams up, right? They have the bonding ability, has the ability to disperse funds for projects, um, we need to tap in all those

resources, state money if we Go to 3A, um, and we don’t do a great, a small town, we have very limited resources. I don’t think we do the best job because we’re so tight on staff on getting Um, thinking about all the ways we could engage the Commonwealth on cash, so. There’s a lot we could be doing.

Um and if I, if I could, so, uh, are you talking about like an implementation master plan implementation kind of thing. No, that, that I know that’s Kate. Kate is on on top of that. Yep, so, so the specific items in the master plan that we’re saying we’re doing. She’s approaching it from I assume

kind of a checklist. Prioritization. What we need is something at a higher level. People that are freed up from the checklist that can actually look at the whole thing and say. Let’s think about The whole thing, the big picture. From the experiences that we’ve had with 3A from the master plan.

You know, what’s going right in Wyndham. What’s not, we got the feedback in the master plan. How do we incorporate nudges, the first core theme, but all five of them about preserving resources. Intergenerational living. put it I, I, I think it would dovetail nicely to have start having that conversation

when the subdivision, um, consultant is here just so she can hear it. Because I think part of, I mean, Subdivision roles are kind of a yawn. It’s all about streets, etc. etc. because it’s a state law constrained thing, but it also, I think she needs the flavor, she needs to hear what the

flavor is of where we would like this to go and what we wanted. To be like. It’s a great opportunity for community, 5, but community engagement one thing I, I, I look back to 20. 7 years ago when I moved here, uh, one thing that was wildly successful are the side, the roadside path committees had

local neighborhood meetings when they were working on the, um, The sidewalk in your town. If you weren’t here at the time, uh, these people raised $300,000 to build sidewalks because the town said they couldn’t afford them. um, and but they did that as a very grassroots effort. They had a

lot of house meetings. So if you, if you’re looking at, OK, what do you want to do in your neighborhood? House meeting, right? Engagement, small, small conversations to get feedback it worked again, yeah, and it worked great. It got people thinking about what it could be, and it, we need to keep the

master plan alive, if not, my fear is in the next. couple of years, it’s going to fall off the table, uh, which I think may have happened in the 1960s. So I think it’s a good idea. I have a recommendation structurally. So, um, Because I think there’s a lot of interest on the board to. Yeah, we

should do this, kick it off, get it going, but we don’t want to silo two members of the board so that you’re permanently, you know, separated from the rest of us. I think we ought to rotate people through that and we can’t go more than 2, right? So maybe we say. You and Scott

kick it off for 3 months or 4 months or whatever, and then somebody else rotates in and then somebody else and we have to do everything in a public forum. Well, so I that’s the question. Well, so. Having been on. Well run but horrible committees. With 1112 members, 13 members. God, those were

rough that met every week. Some of you were on those with me, I think. That’s for a while that’s tough. But at the same time, I do think that anything we do on this topic, I would welcome, we welcome community inputs, so I don’t have, I think it’s great that it’s a publicly noticed meeting at

regular intervals. in the evening. Or at town hall. Where we can lay out maps. I, I think. Maybe we all 5 want to be on, and whoever shows up that night can show up, can show up. And we, and we, and we, we just, it’s extra meetings, but

there’s, we’re all there, and if you want to come and dream big, then you’re there, you know, and we make it public. We just have to notice it, right? And we have to take minutes. No, we can utter it. Moderate That’s allowed? So, so as long as somebody reviews it, right? I, I didn’t catch what you said

is an AI tool that does a voice to text, and it can, it can follow this conversation. It could do this, and it would keep everybody separate. So Dave, this is kind of on your point. I wanted to share this because I had a long conversation this week with a resident who is very pro 3A,

which is the side of this that we don’t, we haven’t heard as much. Um, And there are people out there on both sides of the issue. I mean, had a very long conversation. It was a really good conversation. And one of the things that came up was You know, one of the unintended consequences, I think, of, of

3A that could happen in this town is We, in order to do what you’re talking about, right, for these new innovative, uh, proposals in line with our master plan, we’re gonna have to go back to town meeting for zoning amendments and what, what is the appetite going to be for that, if any, after we

go through the 3A process, which is a, you know. Um Its. I understand the pragmatism there, but I, I would say let’s, yes, I, I would say let’s not that be the driver I’m not saying that. No, I, I, I just, I wanted to say that reality

check, I get it. Yes, even, even what I’m saying is even on the pro. create a side of this, right? It, it, it may eat into other projects that that we have, but, um. You know, it’s good, it’s good to know that there are, there are voices out

there on both sides of this issue. We just haven’t, we don’t necessarily hear all of them. I, I would just say I’m not just talking about housing. And I’m not just talking about dense housing. The master plan. In its Wholeness created concepts like pocket parks. I mean, who’s who’s gonna stand

up there and say, I’m anti-pocket parks, they’ll say who’s gonna pay for them. That, that’s what’s that’s fine. We can talk about who’s gonna pay for them. I don’t even think they cost that much. They’re just small spaces where people are Intersecting and engaging. It’s that level of thinking.

Across all 5 themes, core core themes that I think we want to get back to because You know, 3A has been so much about dense housing. At best mixed use dense housing, we’ve forgotten about commercial. Is there an appetite for that? We’ve forgotten about all types of things that were embedded in

that master plan and I think that’s recreational opportunities and making it a center for outdoor activities and attracting other people in. I know I’m gonna put in a pitch for the park on 97, which is under construction right now other committee I’m on West, yeah West West, yeah West West,

yeah. Higginson playground. You gotta get that name back. He was very nice to donate that land. That’s a big project. He. It’s been a joy. To see it. Um, and the trails being connected, which I think is great, we can do that. Yeah Yeah To. Um OK,

so anyway, just an idea, uh, for the agenda for next time agenda for next time. Can I make a motion to adjourn? No, I’m gonna make a motion. No, you can’t. Can’t make any motions. Yeah, this is, uh, other matters not reasonably anticipated. Um, so you can’t make any votes, yeah this is

discussion only when we reconvene, what I want you to do, I want this board to do is create. A Working committee, no, I want to be the chair of this. I wanna be the working committee chair. That we’re all on And we’ll meet at 2-week intervals. Opposite to the meeting will notice the meeting.

For more than an hour. What happens if we don’t have a quorum? it can’t You can’t, but you can sit there. You just can’t have a meeting and conduct business, but you can meet. OK, so it doesn’t matter because we’re not doing anything as long as it’s been noticed, yeah, we’ll notice it

on regular two-week intervals. No, you can have a meeting, you just can’t take conduct business. You can you can you can you can have an agenda and vote on anything you want if you post it you don’t have a quorum, you can’t vote without a quorum, no, so you, that’s the question is if somebody

can’t come, like I have an alternating two week, you know, thing on Thursday night’s 2 weeks, so we’re gonna set it up. We’re gonna, we’re gonna do it. And we’re gonna dream big and we, and if people wanna come. They can come if it’s like

board wants to come, they can come if. We can, we can use the distribution tools they now have and the email system and the town to get out the word every week. This week’s topic is this week’s topic is and try to generate some interest for specific topics as we go through and we can plan out the

agenda for two months at a time. This is the topic for the next week, and people can plan ahead. Say what? I like the energy, the energy you see me at CPA. Mhm Do you anticipate staff support for that group? Well, I don’t want you, you can come

and dream big too. I would love to. I think it, as, as far as that goes, I think. I don’t know if we can compel you to come to all our extra meetings. I wonder though if we can ask you during the work day to prepare some stuff for us to

work with, it’s for the plan board, of course, um. Yeah, so why don’t we do this over the next till we meet again. Everyone get their ideas together for how that will work and then we can put that together. Yeah, sounds good. OK, discussion only is do it any more on that? Now I can do my,

I can do my do you would you like to, I’d like to make a motion that we adjourn the meeting of the planning board at 7:29 p.m. Um, our next meeting will be so your regular next meeting date would have been this Thursday, but do you want to have another meeting in May before town meeting or do

you wanna maybe put a, uh, put a date for a town meeting morning. Well, that’s it. You’ll have to meet before town meeting, um. Is it Tom eating after evening evening in the evening It’s on Monday, June 9th. Um, let me see if I have the correct time Thursday, Thursday, June is Thursday,

Thursday, June is Thursday, um here on Monday June 9th. to take your vote, you can meet, you can all meet at the town where town meeting location is. We can post it for here. And then um you can sit together. In a room and meet and make your recommendation, and then announce it at 10. Town meeting

starts at 6:30. So 6 o’clock. That means you start at 6:30. that’s not until. 6:30 a.m. No, they’ll they’ll, they’ll they’ll call it and schedule it for another night, believe me, I’ve, they’ve done that before, yeah. Good So that’s the end of my motion. So then our next meeting will be June. 9 at 6

p.m. at the Bucher Auditorium. Well, wait, wait, hold on, what about the, the lady, she can she meet before then to get that going, or is she not gonna be ready? Oh, lady, what lady? Subdivision rules and regs in. Oh, I don’t I I don’t I know I

I don’t know I I don’t know I that that Madame wow, wow, the lady, I think if they’re women now as she should be ready to schedule something with us until June. Um, I would say by, by the end of the, you know, end of this there’s too much

for one, I know. I’m wondering if you want to meet before then with her now. No, sorry. No, I, I think let’s let’s just let it ride, I think the select board is planning a meeting on June, uh, actually. Yeah, June 2nd on Monday evening June 2nd, to go

over the warrant and. Yeah, I have information. Do you want to attend that meeting with them? Do you want to you want to make that a meeting for you? In other words, to take our vote at that point. I don’t think that was the spirit I’m just wondering if you want to be at that meeting. Yeah, I

won’t be there. I think if we’re waiting for the court, let’s wait till the last I think it makes sense to have it here. Because if people Yeah, people are gonna be here if they want to come to this meeting and then. Go right to Tom Me. I think if you’re just before town meeting. You, we

won’t have a lot of time to have. public input or anything. It’s mostly just gonna be for you to make your recommendation. I think that’s right. Yeah. So then the consultant. Meeting would be Either later in June or July, is that the, well, you’re, you’re regularly scheduled meeting would be June

12th. That’s good. For your June meeting. So June 12th don’t we do that’s not too far off, David, right? No, that’s, that’s, that’s great. We’ll hopefully by then maybe Margaret could give them some background on us and she’d be wedding, but that’s OK. Where is this one gonna be? You’ll be

completely composed completely fried. That’s the last one. No, it’s the first one. So do you want then, so the next meeting will be June 9th before a town meeting to make your recommendation. Do you want to do it that way at 6:00 p.m.? Yes, at 6 p.m. and then we’ll have our regularly scheduled

meeting on the 12th. OK. And that would, right? That meeting will be in person only and it will not be on Zoom or um on HW camp. On June 9th before town meeting we’re just gonna vote. One agenda item. What agenda item in person at 6 p.m. to hear us deliberate. Come a little early. They’re gonna

come to town meeting anyway, so. OK, and then we’ll schedule June 12th will be your. Regularly schedule meeting for June and. Have um OK. Was there was I. To adjourn until June 9th. Yes. All in favor. And we see the 6 p.m. 6 p.m. 6 p.m. on