Get started and then the folks join us. All right. Hello, good evening. Um, I now call the order the Hamilton select board meeting of Monday, November 18th, 2024. Uh, we do have a quorum in the room, uh, with Tom Myers and Bill Wilson, but we are remotely right now. Oh. that far Hello Rosie. No, I am, um. Joining obviously by uh Zoom tonight. Sorry, I’m not there in person. That’s OK. We’re just going to, we were just, uh, kicking things off. So I’m actually just going to take a roll call vote, um, and I’ll start with you. OK, Rosie Kennedy here. Tom, Tom Meyer here. Bill Wilson here and Caroline you here, and we believe that uh Bill Olson will also be joining us via phone at some point, at, at which time we will, um, Announced his presence. Um, I think, I don’t think Mark’s going to be able to join us because I removed him from the meeting and now they won’t let him, won’t let him in. So our planning director won’t be given to you. OK, um. Well, well, let me know when we get to the point where that’s salient. gets pretty close to the beginning. OK, uh, we will begin with everybody’s favorite, uh, announcements and board openings, uh, we are currently, uh, have a variety of, uh, boards and commissions on offer for folks who are looking to get involved. Uh, the Conservation commission currently has 3 openings. Uh, the Council on Aging has two associate openings, the Cultural Council has one opening. The finance and advisory Committee has one associate opening. The Hamilton Development Corporation has one opening for a 3-year term. The historic District commission has 2 openings for 3-year terms and 2 openings for 2-year terms. One must be a resident of the historic district, and one must be a resident realtor and our human rights commission has one at-large opening. Um, as always, if you’re interested in getting involved, we welcome you, um. And you can reach out to Joe directly if you need more information, uh, and he can sharper you through that process. Awesome. uh, next, we will move to our select board, uh, reports, and I will begin. Rosie, do you have anything to report on this evening? Yeah, a couple of things, um, just wanted to report that I attended and a butter meeting a few weeks ago through uh from the Gordon Conwell. Why am I on there twice? Um, and anyhow, um, Haven’t the abutters definitely made their opinions clear and we submitted a document to Gordon Conwell, but have not heard back from them, um, to date as far as I know, um, secondly, we did have that, which we discussed last week, we had resignations of two key members to the conservation commission, and I’m happy to report that today somebody um doing some recruit treatment here, um, somebody who has a lot of wet limbs experience has uh handed in her application today, so we know that the next conservation commission meeting is on the 25th. She will attend that, um, hopefully be endorsed by the Conservation commission and then come back to us for, um, final approval. Um, and then the only other thing I wanted to report is we had a counsel on agent. Aging meeting, um, last week and it was a very lively meeting and I will ask that the board of directors be on the um agenda for the next meeting. OK. And, and that’s it for me. Thank you. Perfect. Thanks, Rosie. Tom, anything to report this evening? Uh, nothing for me. OK. And for you, sir. Um, not a lot. I’ve been traveling, but I will, you know, as a PSA announcement the uh school committee does meet on the 21st. I think it’ll be a good meeting, uh, that’s the first time the uh superintendent will give his recommendation on the FY 26 budget. So that’ll be a good meeting. I did attend on your behalf, uh, the, the chair meeting last week with Joe, um, and I think a lot of that will come out during that meeting as well. I don’t think the school committee has met on their budgets yet, so nothing to share there. Um That’s it. I, I mean, I think most of the stuff I mentioned last time, uh, with the accelerated repair program, there’s a lot going on with the schools between the athletic fields, uh, the elementary school and potentially a new roof at the high school, so roof. I love it. Um, all righty. No. Uh, would you like to share anything with us this evening, sir, a couple of things real quick. Wednesday, this Wednesday is gonna be a pretty busy day, the 20th, um, at 11 o’clock in the afternoon, we’re kind of celebrating the Beginning of construction at the town hall project, uh, but more importantly for the public, the first quintuple boards meeting will be this Wednesday night, so we need representatives from the select board in FICO, as well as Wenham’s selector and Fincom with the school committee to begin our discussions about what the FY 26 budget, um, is going to wine. I know I was supposed to be there? We sent out information about it. Right. I, I knew, I knew. That’s our poster, right? I’m, I’m sorry to interrupt. Um, is there any chance that that little ceremony could be on Zoom, unfortunately, I need to um be in Boston on Wednesday. I’m so disappointed that I won’t be there, so I’m just wondering. So, most of the, most, I mean, weather permitting and mostly gonna be outside so it’d be a little difficult. I’ll try to get a laptop set up to be able to, uh. Have it there, but um might be a little bit difficult with the outdoor conditions so well, you could bring your cell phone. That’s true. You do that. So I’ll I’ll I’ll try to get a Zoom set up for that meeting. Did you get the you, thank you. I’m not sure if ESG was trying to do that. I’m not sure we’re gonna have to. You’re just not fun at all, Joe. I’m putting that on. That’s one of your goals this year. Be, be better, be more fun. Tiny shovels. Tiny shovels. Um, we had a plan, um, department head report, uh, with Mark Connors. Unfortunately, we encountered a little bit, we encountered a technical issue and we kicked him out of the zoom and he’s not allowed back, but he’s he’s going through a Zoom link, and if he does, I’ll let you know when he, if he joins us, we will, um, obviously cut straight to him. So next we have public comment. 3 minutes. Anybody online or in the room, um, just remember if there’s something on the agenda, wait for the agenda, but if it’s not on the agenda, how about it, tell us who you are and Share your comments. Lisa Terranova, Lily Mead, um. It’s not uh 3A and base code and you are on the agenda later, but I don’t want to derail that, um, discussion. This is more about transparency coming out of town hall and hopefully helping us move forward, because we don’t seem to be doing that too much. Um, I want to go back a couple of meetings to when HDC was here and they were talking, um, a lot was made about 3A and FB uh form based code being together not being separated, how in the world. the public get them so conflated, um, Deb even showed the the Venn diagrams from UTL and how, you know, they were basically together. Well, it’s kind of easy if you do a little digging when the RFQ went out from the town manager, it went out on March 4th, and in the RFQ it stated they were looking for a firm that could incorporate the elements of MBTA 3A zoning through form-based code. It also said the town seeks with form-based code development process to incorporate the requirements of Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 48 3A. And then when you sent its application back in I think around Beginning of April It said Hamilton’s decision to embed the requirements of the MBTA Communities Act in a more comprehensive planning process to build more community support is a wise one. And we look forward to the possibility of assisting. Accordingly, applying a new form-based code for Hamilton town center must be both flexible and finely tuned to the specific existing conditions to meet, um, the requirements of the META3A Communities Act, having led several towns in their efforts to comply with 3A Uil is well positioned to help Hamilton balance these two aims and let’s also remember that in the RFQ it stated that the possibility of the Winthrop school becoming. open and again it mentions. Uh Complying with 3A. So That’s where it came from. This wasn’t pie in the sky. This wasn’t the public making it up. Um, I don’t know. Going forward, I know you’re going to talk about this later on, but maybe it takes a 2nd Amendment to the contract, maybe, maybe separating the two can never be done at this point. And I think if you look all the way back to Article 11, town meeting, April 6th of 2024. You will see that the town was asked to approve the transfer of free cash in the amount of $125,000. To look at a plan for the town center for downtown. Nowhere was 3A mentioned. Nowhere was form-based code mentioned. V RFQ had already gone out a month prior. Two days later, after town meeting. It was announced on Facebook on the Hamilton town of Hamilton Facebook page that the town had overwhelmingly given this money so that UTL could come in and work on 3A and form base code. us not being transparent. That’s a lot of gas lighting. So then public gets upset the public says what in the world is going on? The public comes to meetings, you all get upset because the public’s coming to meetings and they’re upset, so. I just wanted to go on record that that’s where this is coming from. And we’re heading into another town town meeting season. I don’t know how town council approved Article 11 to be on the warrant to be that imprecise and that vague. How can you vote money, not knowing to whom it is going and for what purpose? What’s the deliverable on that? So as we look ahead to what’s going to be on the next warrant. I would just ask that we’d be very, very mindful of that so that we avoid what’s happened for the last 9 months and maybe we can actually start moving forward. Thank you. Thank you. comments. Anybody else online or in the room? Nobody’s raising a hand. OK. Uh, with that, we can move to the approval of our consent agenda, which just has one item tonight, um, and that is the Minutes of November 4th, uh, I will entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. So moved. So I got All right, uh, any discussion about the minutes or amendments to the minutes? Good. Alright, uh, I will do a roll call vote starting with you, Rosie. Rosie Kennedy, I. Tom Meyer. Bill Wilson I, Caroline Bull, you are. All righty. And on to uh our main agenda, um, which is discussing the timing of the annual town meeting warrant articles, um, And the possibility of pausing the downtown UTO form-based code zoning process and or pulling those apart, um, Joe, I’ll give you the floor if you want to just sort of give us a state of the state and then we can, uh, following Uti’s last advisory committee meeting, um, and following much input from the HTC from The public at our meetings, the public at planning board meetings following some input from the playing board chair and others, uh, Uti has sent us a memo and it’s in the in your packets asking to pause the project until, um, until at least the end of the uh. Milton case, uh, once the SJC is ruled, they, they’re proposing restarting the project perhaps with the uh uh a varied scope or a different scope, but they feel that in the current climate it’s you’re unable to move forward with any part of it until we have some definition around, uh, what’s happening. We, you know, they feel that The school that school, uh, site issue has to be decided even though we’ve already taken. went to school site out of the the project scope, um, they feel that the uncertainty around whether we’re going to be forced by the state to comply with 3A or not is, uh, Just making it difficult to even talk about even the form-based code part, um, so they’re recommending, and I agree with the recommendation that we pause. The util project and Bring it up again, you know, or rebegin it after, uh. After we have some kind of clarity from what the SJC does. In the meantime, there are a number of items that are already gonna make for a very busy ATM I’ve listed some of those. In your packets as well, um, there’s one that isn’t there too. I, I think there’s like. 18 or 19 uh articles there including several planning zoning articles that have nothing to do with downtown, um, and we forgot to include under the Hero Act, which was a state law that was passed over the summer and needs a local adoption, so they’ll be those plus the hero Act. Um The thought here is that we could get through the annual town meeting and Once we have some idea of what’s going to be forced upon us in terms of a vote, we can We be, you know, restart the, the process for the downtown planning and determine what comes out of that for a special time being. So, essentially the discussion that we’re having here tonight, which can be as short or long as we want is, um, pulling to Joe’s point, the form-based code. This 3A. Zoning conversation and the, um, any other refinements or modifications to the zoning bylaw out completely. And that would make annual meeting in April be solely focused on sort of the business as usual budgeting stuff, the, the school, um, consolidation proposal, as well as a number of, um, zoning articles that are on the table. And then we would sort of figure out, you know, assuming uh special time meetings are typically September, October, November. Is that? Yeah, but the, the town bylaw allows the select board and consultation with the time moderator because call a special time meeting anytime you feel like it. So you could, it could be depending on what you want to do after we hear from the state, it could be as soon as June or as late as next November. So the first question I would ask is, does anybody see any, any reason why we should maintain the 3A or the form-based zoning in the April town meeting. Yeah. Yeah, I think I’m. It’s, it’s the, the most, it’s the primary topic of the town right now. I don’t know why we wouldn’t at least allow, uh, a gathering of our citizens to talk about it or do something with it, I kicking the can down the road, you know, waiting for Milton for both. Seems like we’re You know, we’re not discussing important business in April when most people show up to town meeting. OK. I mean, I got the the unbuckle thing, the form base code, but effectively what we’re saying is UTO can’t do anything unless it’s 3A related. So, I mean, we have a, the HDC was here about a $2.6 million project. I mean, what happens to that, you know, if, if somebody’s not helping with form-based code that’s unrelated to that and is more downtown related, uh, to some of the improvements that the HCC wants to see, um, so initially, like when we even spoke about it and I could be wrong with this, but I thought we would move one, you know, but not both. And I think 3A, we should do something. It needs to be discussed at town meeting. OK. Tom, did you have? So, as, as town council weighed in on the the plan just cuz I’m wondering, I mean, from my understanding of the Milton case, we’ll likely get a decision, you know, early next year, maybe January, right? I mean, I think it’s the rough timeline, assuming. The judge, you know, the court comes back and says, this is totally compliant, you know, this is fine. This, this rule is OK. Like we’re gonna be kind of, you know. Sitting ducks, right? We don’t have anything in place and we’re out of compliance and, you know, we’re supposed to be. I mean, I don’t think is it are we gonna get a grace period because there was a case, even though they said the the law was completely justified. I just feel like we’re wasting valuable time, you know, if we’re not even putting effort into to at least make, you know, understand. That kicking the can down the road and Yeah. And that’s kind of where I’m at. Um, You know, where we can’t, we got to control what we can control, you know, we can on the Milton case. Who knows when that will be? If it’s that soon or not, but it’s an opportunity, you know, to make a statement from the town, you know, for or against, you know, I switched it, right? They went and said, you know, deferred it indefinitely, you know, we should do something, I think, related to the 3A. OK. Um, curious if Rosemary. Rosemary, did you, um, wanna weigh in? Um, so I heard both comments and My, my thought is, um, they’ve been so many amendments to the Uh, guidelines we’re not really sure. How we would be in compliance given this, given this case. I mean, it, they may find for Milton. They may find somewhere in the middle. They may find against Milton, um, we have a volunteer planning board, and they have a lot of things on their plate, which they are diligently working on, and I’m, and, and they’re in favor of putting this off as, as far as I understand it, and it seems that the cleaning board does an enormous amount of work, and to make it all for naught. Um is a very frustrating concept. And so I am for postponing this. I, I would almost guarantee that if 3, if the uh guidelines are found, um, reasonable, and we are going to institute this, this statute, then I think in reality, all these times, many, many times will need more time to do it, so I don’t think we’re going to hurt. ourselves by waiting to see what the ultimate decision is. It’s a lot of effort to do 3A. There’s a lot of confusion in town. There’s a lot of frustration in town. Now, in terms of the form-based code, I feel frustrated because I wasn’t aware that they were going to be so closely aligned. I would be thrilled to have a form-based code, but apparently it it is planned to be tied in with the 3A. So given that, I would opt for postponing until such time as we know what the outcome is and what the consequences of that outcome will be. Well, that in itself could be a a vote or decision, you know, where the town makes that decision versus us as a board. We could vote to, to say just that. So I guess and actually maybe y’all will have some insight here. So one of the, the main reason that The form-based code and the 3A compliance became so tied together is because if you look at it from the, the other perspective, it was, if we are going to have to comply. We want to comply in the way that is the most homogeneous with the town and what we want the town to look and feel like. And so it was like at the very least, let’s do the form-based code so that whatever we end up doing in compliance looks and acts and feels the way that we want it to. Now, if we pull those things apart. And we pass a form-based code or a code that is not compliant with 3A, then we’re in a different space. But what I’m not 100% clear on is Even if the decision comes back that the law is compliant. I do not get the sense that that has any impact on whether people who are against 3A will vote for it. It will still get voted down even if the decision is that it is legal, and I don’t know what that means. So I mean I think we, it’s still gonna have to go to town meeting and it’s either gonna get voted for or against, and that the town will decide, right? But at the end of the day, like, it’s our response if we have a law to comply with that, the, the board of this town to say that as of right now, it’s a compliant law, right? We to our understanding is that we need to comply with this. No judges came back and said anything to date. There are people contesting it. I don’t think that the court will come back and make any changes to it. They’re going to defer to the discretion of HLC. They’re either gonna strike it down that you didn’t have the authority and you need to re-promulgate it, or it’s legit, right? And so I think we have to go into it assuming that it’s a valid law and that we need to act in the best interests of the town or face financial repercussion and bring it to the voters, and if the voters strike it and say no, that’s up to the voters. they can do that. Right Right, so the board should be thumbing our nose at the states, my question though is like, Whether it’s a great plan that we take to town or not, the folks who are prepared to vote no are voting no, regardless of the, the decision. And so this idea that You need to come up to the microphone if you’d like to speak. Did you just UTI has said they won’t have anything ready by Springtown meeting. So what would people be voting yes on. So that’s that’s the distinction that is part of the message in their memo is that basically they’re Ability to get input from the community thus far on what they want the form-based code to look like. Continues to get derailed because every meeting just gets caught up in the, why are we even doing this? It shouldn’t have anything to do for this coach shouldn’t have anything to do with 3A, as, as they explained to, to us, If they were just doing form-based code, it will look very much like what they’re presenting to folks now. Right. But people think that they’re doing it to comply with 3A and they’re saying no, the town town part aside because the downtown part-based code. The downtown the downtown part alone won’t satisfy 3A because it it doesn’t create enough housing with the other zone, the other zones will have to be in other places. So they can’t even move to the point where the planning board can start having public hearings on this and get it ready and that’s what the planning boards worried about. Um, Until They have a sense of being able to move off the conversation. And right now they haven’t been able to do that. They’re hearing, they’re hearing the frustration. They are trying to respond to the advisory committee, to the HDC to the planning board. They’re not, they’re not trying to thumb our noses. Bear in mind when we recommended this course of action last January, we said that it was going to put us in violation of 3A effective December 31st because we knew we were gonna miss that deadline all along. We said that it was going to include 3A component we we send that all along, the first time that I mentioned this in a public meeting at the last year’s budget and capital presentation we talked about it, talked about it with the FICO. The idea was to make sure the town had the information it needed to to consider it thoughtfully and if something was going to pass, it would pass in a way that the town would It would fit in with what the town currently has. We all agreed that the numbers that were in the guidelines were extreme for our community. We had gotten, you know, free. Public planning help from the state. Well, from, from not, not, not from the 3, but no, well, but the planning help that we originally got was on, was on a grant from the state to, to just tell us what 3A’s district would look like, and it was abhorrent. There was no way to put that forward. So we felt we weren’t trying to deceive anybody. Maybe we didn’t do a good enough job communicating our goals, but the goal all along was, As Tom just said, the select board’s job is to make sure that we’re complying compliant with state laws. Time to manage your job is to make sure we’re compliant with state laws. There was no way for us to bring something forward that would have a chance of passing unless we went through a complete process and that’s why we asked for the planning money, was to have a complete process and that and whatever was proposed for the downtown would fit in with the scale of what Hamilton is used to. That was always the goal, but Perhaps we didn’t do a good enough job uh explaining that I, I thought we had it well explained by the FICO. I, I know the select board at the time was on board with it, so. No, I do and and in no way do I think there’ll be a plan that gets thumbs up or down. I just think at no time during the year, does the town have more people in one room on such a topic where we shouldn’t have it discussed or talked about, and even if it’s simply, you know, explaining just this, you know, we’re, we vote to defer it until the grayness is out of the, you know, the, the Milton case and whatever happens between now and then, but just to kind of, you know, tuck it in the corner and let the day come and go. just seems like a wasted opportunity to me. That’s all, that’s. I don’t think there’s something to vote on. I just think we’ve got people in the room we should take advantage of it. Well, sir, are you saying that there should be an article or are you saying that there should be a discussion or presentation. Uh, you know, that’s a great question. I haven’t gotten there yet. I mean, whether it’s a presentation or here’s what we’ve done, but I, I fear that would just be more what we’re doing now. We hired a group, you know, there’s stuff going on, they can’t design something when it’s, it could change and that doesn’t do a lot, but it’s more how do we gather, you know, a census from the room. You know, so that we can resoundingly go back and say, hey, no, I, this is what our town is saying, not just the people behind this desk, because if we put forward an article and a zoning article and it fails, you have to wait 2 years to bring it forward. So if the state upholds, if the state upholds, if the SJC upholds the legality of the guidelines and says, no, you have to comply the way HLC said to, and we failed to pass that. We’ll be, we’ll be under whatever Punishment for lack of a better term, the state wants to give us for at least 2 years. And you don’t like the state’s gonna still punish us because we did nothing. We sat on our hands. We’re still not. Well, we haven’t brought it forward yet, I think Joe’s but that’s our fault and we didn’t do our job. Right? I mean, if we don’t bring it forward, we’re getting punished. But if anyone gets punished for like 3 months. We’re saying once we vote no, we can’t bring it back to vote again for what it is which just do? Didn’t they just defer a vote until further they, they, they, they indefinitely postponed the vote. So they didn’t, they didn’t vote yes or no on it. But so right, so they could come back around and do what you are suggesting, just have it later to say, hey, we did take a pulse. We talked to our community, they did, they all either did or didn’t defer, you know, vote to defer it until More information is in. We don’t have enough, you know, if we’re 100% relying on Utah to do the form base and stuff, we don’t have that. There’s nothing to vote on. So what was the what was the language in Ipswich’s warrant article, do we know? Or was it a motion on the floor? I think the motion on the floor was still a definite indefinite. It was a motion, so they had a a compliant versus not compliant article and then and then somebody made a motion to defer the because I don’t, we can’t put a article to permanently defer I I I I could make a motion, so how do you like I would say to defer it until further, you know, we could cite things that are going on in the Melton case, etc. until we could do it uh like a non-binding referendum. Can you do something like that that just gives an indication of whether how many signatures for the citizens petition? And for the ATM. I think it’s only 20 for ATM 1010,,, 1010, yeah All right, for his ATM it’s not a high bar. You’re looking at us? Do a non-binding citizens resolution for an up down on the, uh, whether it’s not even a, uh, it’s not even a non-binding referendum. I mean, you can put an article as a citizen’s petition article on the warrant, right? To defer the vote. But what But what is the purpose But what is the purpose? What is the purpose of the the vote like I don’t understand the purpose like we’re saying to the Milton case settles down, like the people that are against 3A aren’t going to change their minds on 3A regardless of the Milton case, right? So, that’s where I’m trying to figure out what are we to do? So if we separate 3A and this form-based code, we just come up with a plan for form-based code that doesn’t account for 3A, then We’re not gonna be what 3A looks like though. Yes, the yes and no things you’re right. I think people are, are on one side or the other, so regardless, regardless of what happens, they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna change their mind, right? So like we, we either have to come up with something that incorporates 3A or we’re bringing something that doesn’t incorporate 3A, we’re just voting on a foreign-based code for downtown. But if we’re trying to engage the town in a form-based code that includes 3A. Well I think the other option is you come to, you don’t show anything to anyone, you come and say, do you support 3A as an ideological in town, and if people say, no, we don’t, then we just say, you, your job is now just random form-based code for downtown, but like they’re not the, the consultant’s not gonna get meaningful, meaningful dialogue. If they can’t get it now, they’re not going to get it in 6 months. So it’s like. Either we, I mean, like we’re pay, we have the, we’re paying them now to do a job and they’re saying they’re not getting meaningful dialogue. I mean, like I’ve worked with consultants before. It’s like, OK, when you get your, you get the job done. You say this is what we’re moving forward. We’re not talking about, you know, we’re not gonna sit here and contest 3A. We’re here to discuss form base code and you run the meeting that you need to run the meeting. I think you have to. You have to first yay or nay 3A. And so my question is, can you take 30 to a vote without a proposal for 3A. Can you zone, I don’t, I, I don’t know if it, if that is a, a legal entity. I, I don’t know if you could, if you can vote. On an ideology, I think you have to vote on, um, a zoning bylaw. The specific zones. Right, to have that ready for meeting and they’re just not gonna be ready for it. I think the planning board also feels that, that they, they’re supposed to be picking up the process at this point and moving it forward from here and they just don’t, they would. They, they don’t have it. They don’t have. And, and honestly, um, I’m sorry, um. Tom, I, I wanted to say that the reality is that you cannot just make as a consultant cannot just make um a, a, a zoning bylaw and define um 3A zones for us. I mean, that’s, that’s not what we’re hiring them to do, and because there’s so much confusion and frustration and frankly anger about all this, you’re absolutely right that it’s that it’s going nowhere, but the consultant cannot do this. unilaterally So I think OK Can I, can I just make one quick comment. I’m sorry, um, I was on the advisory committee, and, um, was at every single meeting with Jonathan and, and Amal and, um, I don’t know if you guys remember, but there were the two circles, you know, this is gonna be the first vote which was just form based code and then there was this with the circle with like a hatch mark, and I kept asking the question like what’s this part that’s on this circle, but here it’s layered over as 3A, right? And it, it was a question worth asking. Hard to get a straight answer on, but to me it’s the crux of why we have a problem because we can’t just do the form-based code because there is a subset within the downtown that they were going to build in housing that wasn’t going to be sufficient for 3A, but it would be increased density that would be added to the 3A and when I asked about whether it was, it was a Willow Street, was the property line. It was, it was to add it there. Can we just pull that out of this circle and then we really just have kind of currently existing commercial residential areas and just do the zoning for that part, because that seemed non-controversial. We’re not coming up with the density numbers sort of randomly that would add to this. That’s when they decided to stop. So I think I just think that that’s why there’s like there is this, I think this was an important decision yeah and and I realized that we’re sort of Chasing our tails because. If we think about an area that’s not currently in the, the, the zone for downtown. But it could be in a zone for 3A. We would want form-based code to extend to that zone. I agree because if somebody bought that land, we would want For-based code to extend to it. I agree. And so part of the The, the issue that’s happened here is that when we first said we’re going to do a downtown plan and then it was like, well, if 3A happens and you have to extend the downtown to, to make room for that housing. You need to make sure that that form-based code covers where that density would be, so that they could build stuff that’s exactly what we want it to be. So UTL was like, great, and then there’s gonna be this other part of 3A that doesn’t fit in this quarter mile radius and it’s gonna be over here, so we’ll add that so that you kind of get this comprehensive plan. And then I think to Lisa’s point, like then there’s all this conflation and there was the we didn’t know we were trying to put together a compliant plan, and it’s like, but if we didn’t do it, Then we pass form-based code, not covering the 3 areas, in which case, somebody can come in and build whatever they want that looks whatever they want it to look like within the reason of our bylaw. And so where I don’t know the answer, is that every time we talk about pulling them back, somebody will then say, well, what happens if we end up having to be compliant with 3A and you didn’t, why didn’t you put form-based code in these three areas, and I’m like, Because when we tried to do it with 3A, we, we were told not to do it and then we do it without 3A and we’re told, why didn’t you do it? Yeah, that’s why I’m like, well, one of the two things has to be off the table completely. It seems to clarify the conversation, which is So that was UT was like, well, let’s just wait. And if they say it’s legal, you have to do it, then that’s where my question came is, is that that doesn’t mean that Hamilton’s going to vote for it just because it’s legal. People may still say go pound sand. But I don’t have a crystal ball and I don’t know if that’s actually the case, and there’s many, many people I’ve talked to that are like, well, I’m against it, but if it’s legal and the court says it’s legal, you know, we’ll vote to be compliant with it, in which case we’re caught with their pants down because we go to do this compliant thing and we don’t have form-based code. So I feel like I we’re just like going round and round in circles about like, pull it out, put it in, pull it out, put it in, we’re gonna vote, we’re not going to vote. What do we do? And I’m like, y’all, like, yeah, no, I. Just for the record, I agree with you. OK? I just want you to process that, OK, for a second. Uh, if we had to do 3A, having it under form-based code is, is the right answer. I’m a believer in that, right? Um, I think that the conflict came in that the first circle that was supposed to be the non-3A form-based code separate from 3A actually wasn’t really, and that it was always in that half mile. There was that little that little part here that’s both circles that that’s the part that ultimately was in this code and so that meant that a certain area and to vote for foreign-based code for downtown was going to include a residential area as being multi-family. Not necessarily fully 3A compliant, but it was going to include multi, multi-family. Zoning As part of this form-based code for this first circle extending the full, the full, the full amount in the downtown, but there was a subset. It’s this, it’s this little hatch mark here that’s on both library that isn’t currently part of the downtown is a part that was in the first circle like the colored hatch mark you can picture those those colors included the Willow Street, right? And then the 3A overlay, not the library, uh, no. Linda, between Lyndon and uh Pleasant. As Asbury Asbury. So we don’t, it’s just the point, I think that I’m just trying to make is that I think separating the two does make sense to have like a downtown. And then a 3A. But I don’t want to speak out of turn, but I also want to be careful with that specific example because that’s you’re talking about where Dodge Tree is. No, that’s not, well, that’s on the other side. I’m talking about, that’s ***. It’s hard without a picture, but I can talk to you about it offline if you want, what they were talking about and I think that if you can actually separate out the 3 no matter when we do it, I think it would still be important to do kind of the downtown and then the, this is what 3A will look like, and these are the 3A zones that we want to approve up, down, and this is how it would look. And I think that they’re just not ready. I mean, that’s, that is the bottom line is that they aren’t ready because they’ve been, they’ve met with more resistance, and I think it stopped them, and I think that our group Emma and, um, Jonathan have been amazing in their, their work and their creativity with what they’re giving you teal and um you doesn’t want to take it like, so there’s this interesting dynamic that’s going on, but I think that you can ultimately get to that, to, to a point. Can I ask you a question? I think my, I, I, I agree, but there’s a part I disagree with is that it’s easy to say like that sliver is what derailed us. But I don’t think I believe that, and that’s where I’m concerned is like, What you just described is perfect, right? Like, here’s form-based coding for downtown and if 3A it would be an overlay like this, and it would kind of look like this and go over here. That’s actually the conversation UTL was trying to have this whole time. Like, what is Form-based code look like and how does 3A fit into it? And It had nothing to do with the sliver. It had to do with the words 3A completely derailed the conversation. I mean, I’ve been on a lot of meetings with them. I’m not sure that I totally agree with that because we understood that if you have to define 3A, there has to be a zone outlined, and there wasn’t really a disagreement about that. No, but like the willingness to have a foreign-based code conversation because it made us 3A compliant is ultimately what stopped this. And I’m like, So, I love what you’re saying, but I’m like we’ve tried to have nuanced conversations about this, and nobody’s playing along. I don’t think that’s gonna change. I’m just saying that in those in those meetings though. And again, I’ve, I’ve talked with them extensively. The part that was the most concerning to me was the part that is addressing 3A, you know, increased housing. I can’t use the word density, I guess. Increased population in existing areas that, um, also would add into the 3A, that where does that number come from? And is there a way to take that out? And then we’re really just dealing with the downtown, I think that could pass, but that it was after that discussion that they then said, we’re stopping it. So I’m just making it. Maybe it’s wrong. I’m just saying that that was an important discussion, and then like the next day they said we’re, we think we’re going to stop. So because they’re, they’re, they’re mingling, impetus for doing this was the 3A with the form-based code, and, and I think because. They didn’t feel that we were receptive to 3A within the form-based code that they didn’t feel that they could do that, and I am as perplexed as anybody else who feels that there was a dare I use the words again, bait and switch, um, unfortunately, the way the concept has worked out, it’s not too different things. We’re paying a boatload of money and the And the philosophy is that we will do a form, a form based code that incorporates 3A. density. I am going to use the word density because that is really the the only difference here. And so I’m, it’s clear that they are not feeling like they can go forward. I think some of us on the board are feeling like we can’t go forward. I would love to just see a 3A, um, excuse me, um, a form-based code. Yes, I would like to see that, but I don’t think that was the ultimate reason behind paying these people $125,000. So given that reality and given that they don’t feel that they can get this done by April because there’s a lack of cooperation and they need citizen input to do this. They can’t just do it for us. I don’t want them to do it for us. And because the planning board also feels that there’s too much in limbo. I feel like there’s too much in limbo. I think it’s very reasonable to put it off. We are not alone in this. There are many, many towns. Who have postponed, postponed, postpone their town meetings, and if, if this, if these regulations are found to be um viable and and legal, then there are. Just several, several towns that are going to need to get up to the speed, and I think that the, the court would want to give a grace period to anybody who hasn’t yet complied because of all the confusion. Look at how much time we’ve spent talking about this, and we are just going in circles, Caroline, as you say. I, I feel very strongly we should just Put this, put this on hold because there isn’t any solution right now to it. I think, I think we want to put it on hold, is what I’m hearing. And what changes? Nothing. We get, we get to talk about it. I mean, we’re still going to be at the same. place just saying, OK, I honestly don’t think anything I just feel like, you know, this is just kicking the can down the road maybe there has to be a, maybe at the town meeting there has to be sort of a someone stands up and says, you know, this was on the docket originally and it’s off, and these are the reasons why it’s off because we want to do a really good job at it and it’s not ready. So that’s a great statement. But then, so then what do we sit here today and decide we do differently because nothing’s gonna change after the Milton case. Like, do we take a different tack? Do we just get a company like Utah? and do, you know, downtown economic vibrancy and do something on that. I mean, we feel like we’re spending money, wasting time and doing nothing. And I just feel like there’s a low likelihood that there’s gonna be additional grace period because if the court comes back and says it’s a viable law, like nothing changes with the law, it’s still the same law that was in place 2 years ago, like we’re supposed to already be in compliance, we’re supposed to already understand it, they’re not going to give us a grace period to comply with the law that we’ve already known about and should already be in compliance with. So if we don’t have a plan, come town meeting. then You know, that’s just more time that we’re just, you know, like, you know, to Bill’s point, we’re kicking it down the road and regardless of, you know, separating it now or or adding it in later, there are going to be people within the town that are going to be against it and not wanting to participate because they don’t support 3A in general. OK, so there’s, there’s two, there are two paths here, binary paths. The first is we punt, we punt the whole thing to a time after I’m on the board, um, where we take this. We take it, we do that and, and let’s set that aside because that, I think, Rosie, I’m hearing, I’m hearing that. The second is we say no to all the reasons we’ve said, doesn’t matter what and barring the Barring it coming back that it is unconstitutional and we do not have to comply, which is, I guess, one of the, the options, assuming these things. We do want this to go forward. We do feel like we owe it to the public to have a vote. We still have the issue of needing something for them to vote upon. Which we don’t have, um, which would mean that between now and April 4th, we would need to get a form-based, or not even for a 3A zoning plan to the planning board before November 26th, which is when public hearings begin. For them to socialize, to have it prepared to be on the warrant for the April 4th meeting. So if we choose to go forward with a zoning vote, we would then have to make an executive decision between now and like next week as to what are the zones that we’re putting forward. Because if UTL has come to us and said, there’s no, there’s no plan. We have nothing to give you. And we still want a vote in April. We have to decide what we’re offering to the planning board. And I don’t know how that works within the bounds of the advisory committees and all of the people that are part of this who will light my house on fire. When they they learn that we just like picked it up and we’re like, well, here’s the, here’s the circles vote on it. Yeah, I guess I never, never once thought anyone heard me say we’re right the circles and vote on it. I’m trying to take an opportunity when we have the largest number of people in the room. But that would be just to have a conversation, I think, or to say we has spoken and we’re deferring it or the town is spoken and we’ll do it. I know you said that can only happen. I don’t know. I’d ask an attorney through uh a citizen’s petition, but I think it’s one of the things we we a company and they’re not going to deliver, right? That’s what I’m here. March 1st, I think if I remember. It’s that’s I know, I understand that. So what’s going to happen? We’re gonna just park them until April or do we fire him? They didn’t deliver. They’re delivering for whatever reasons. I think they’re asking to, I think we’re gonna be sitting here in April saying the same thing I think the concern though and I agree with Bill here is if the, the ruling comes back that it’s constitutional and we have to re-engage with UTL and there is still this form-based 3A. They’re not going to have any more luck engaging with the public on creating compliant zones because the people who are dead set on voting no on 3A will not change their mind on voting no, just because the The State has determined that it is illegal and compliant order. And so it’s like, how do we say? Like they’re still going to be a group of folks who, who show up. To, to, to disagree with the process regardless of whether or not It is a compliant law. I think that was gonna always be the case. I mean, that’s always going to be there, and the fact is we’re paying them to do a job, right? And like they’re gonna be people that disagree with it, but like expand the scope of the advisory committee, like what is the planning board doing? It’s a planning board advising on this, like this is the point where the planning board’s supposed to pick it up and start to have their public hearings about it now, so that has come up with nothing in their engaged for about 56 months now and like they’re coming back and saying that they have nothing for us and they’re not gonna be ready to go for, I mean, we hired them for a job and yeah, they’re gonna get opposition. This is a controversial piece. of uh of law and for zoning, but like, what are we paying for? I mean, and then if we come back in 6 months and it’s gonna be the same thing, we’re gonna have individuals that are against it too. They’re gonna tell us, oh, we still can’t do it. Let’s push it out 2 more years, like this is the job that they would. paid to do. So Tom, it sounds like you’re more frustrated with your teal than you are about anything else. Do, do I understand that correctly? Like it says that you wants to pause until. The town has received the Supreme Court judicial ruling on the Attorney General’s case. I think that matters 0%, honestly I don’t think has been given clear direction from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts about Hamilton’s obligations under 3A. I also think that matters 0% and has decided how the town will address those obligations. I don’t know how we uh how we determine addressing those obligations. If we don’t have a zoning plan to vote on. So I, I agree like I feel like They’re telling us that we need to go figure this out so that they can do their thing. And I’m like, well, the third one, deciding how the town will address these obligations. It was their job. No, they’re saying they can’t do their job. It’s too hard. I just want to know from the I think so. It is if this is at the workplace, believe me, this would not fly. Remember when we used to have to make decisions about like lawn mowers and stuff. Remember last year, remember those days where it was like, can we have a leaf blower? and I was like, no. That was your first order of business, yeah, what happened to those days. It’s your fault, Double door. So I, I think that on the planning board people who are on the advisory committee are not satisfied that what you feel is going to be bringing to the planning board is going to be sufficient to do a really good job and make it pass. And so I think that there’s some with 3A. Anything. Yeah, because They haven’t I just don’t think that they’re sad. That’s sort of the sense I’ve gotten in watching and you’re on the planning board, you can attest to that, but, um, so plenty’s not happy with the product that’s we pay like Yeah. Tom’s point, then is the problem with Our consultant Or, or is it ours because our scope was so wide and it’s volatile. Do we redirect them and just do downtown stuff or who do they feel everything’s so tied now that no matter what UTL says it’s related to 3A and it will fail. Well, I particularly concerned shake it off because to your point, if we pull out just the form-based code. They say in here, sneakily on page 2 towards the end, that they’re, they’ve, they have no more, they’ve used all the scope for public engagement. And there’s no more public engagement scope, which means if we go back to them and say pull out just the form-based code and only put that in there, we would have to pay them for additional public engagement. Yeah. What does the planning board need to move 384. Yeah, yeah, on the mic. So The Milton case. Milton is not suing the state. The state is suing Milton because Milton voted no. Yeah. It’s not the constitutionality of 3A. It is whether or not a town has the right to say no, now. The Supreme Judicial Court when they had the oral arguments, they asked questions specific to the guidelines because the guidelines were not promulgated in the normal way. What Milton is guilty of. Is not being in compliance by, I forget what their date was. OK, that date was set up in the guidelines. If the SJC rules that those guidelines are not permissible because they weren’t formulated correctly, then those deadlines, the deadlines we’re talking about go away. So we’re not, not in compliance anymore. The, the, um, SJC led people to believe or or the feeling is that that those guidelines don’t have any teeth. Those deadlines don’t have any teeth. That’s what’s going to be decided now if the guidelines go away, this is very important. You go back to having the original 3 paragraph law that states that the 3A district must be within a half mile of your commuter rail that means for us in Hamilton Wenham, we’re going to have 1100 units of multi-family housing with no cap on the number of bedrooms or the number of residents around the railroad around our MBTA. stop 1100 units that 80% is in the secondary guidelines. If the guidelines hold, that’s a whole different argument. So trying to go forward with what we have now in the situation with UTL. I, I don’t, I don’t know. And then to Caroline’s point to other people, the people who are going to vote now are going to vote now and people are going to vote yes are going to vote yes, because don’t forget, we’re talking basically about the loss of local zoning. You hand it over to the HLC and it has been shown very recently, um, a lot of towns have been putting in pre-approval for their districts and HLC’s come back and said, no, no, we’re not approving this. Your language is not strong enough, and even when you come back to us with stronger language, that’s not going to be a guarantee that we’re going to approve it, which says to me, what has been said for a few months now, HLC, the state is going to control those districts, and if you want to vote away your right to, I mean, to me, that’s one of the most American things we have. You want to vote that away? OK. You want to call that noncompliance and we have to comply. That’s a whole different argument. I mean, I, I, but. The, the Milton case is, it’s going to determine not the constitutionality, but whether or not those guidelines stay. The deadlines and where the districts are because all this business about we can only put so much downtown, which is obvious, and we’d have 80% in two other places and, and what I’m doing the same thing that goes out the window if the guidelines go out the window and the deadlines go out the window too. If I could just add because then I wanna sit down. I just, I, to segue on from that is the other thing that’s in the law are the four things of debt that you know you’d be subject to, and if, and if that changes, like right now they’re trying to add on all these other things in the guidelines for, um, debt that is gonna, you’re not gonna have, um, so to, to that point, um, if we’re going into a school. thing where we’re getting a potentially 50 million of debt from the state. I’m just like to be on the record is asking that if we end up doing that, that it be noted whether that is going to be contingent. Upon passing 3A in the warrant, so that it’s clearly stated. say that you’re asking the 50 million in debt is going to be a lever that is withdrawn if we don’t pass 3A. I think that needs to be in the warrant, not in this, in this, not in the appendix. I know you don’t know right now, but I know that they’re adding these things and I think to be fair, I, what I wouldn’t want to do is is have people vote for this and think it’s a great deal, and then come back and say, well, actually we don’t really want 3A and like, well, then you don’t have 50 million and you just approved this school. So if that could be, and I know, um, Joe, that the warrant for the Uh, you te thing didn’t say it in the little blurb, it said it in the back, which is the bigger description, so it’s true, it was there. It’s in the back pages, but if it could be in the front page in the little subset, please, because I think that’s an incredibly important piece of data if it comes up to that, and that was my only, my last point. Thank you. Um I, I’m just back to the, you know, the whole deadline guideline is interesting. If that changes, then everything changes. If we, so I mean, is that what UTL is is you is telling us they think that could happen or are they telling us we’re not getting the support So I don’t think they are saying that. I Yeah, OK, so we’re back to the, we’re not back to it, we are on the same question. We’re not getting out of here at 8. We have to make a decision about The, the warrant and whether or not any of this goes on the warrant. We have to make that tonight. We, we, no, but we have to get pretty close because you won’t open the warrant until January, but you have to, we need to in April and then to me it’s more the like What? But UT needs an answer by tomorrow we should get rid of him. Well, OK, which we can, so that’s definitely an option. I mean, right, right now, I mean I’m not, I’m being funny in a way, but honestly, I’m trying to keep some momentum and something instead of, I know a lot of people just want to say, put it on pause, it’s gonna go away and then we go away. That’s what we’re saying. I think what I think. a lot of people want. And I’m not saying I’m not bad. I, I’m, I’ve got a lot of issues with all of it. I just have a lot more issues just in the way my mind thinks in that you always got to, it’s November and we’re we’re just gonna like put the toys away to me it comes down to though, like, What is the Like PR aside. Sides of it aside, what is the actual thoughtful right answer here, which is. If we’re parents and our, and our kids are asking us, like, I don’t, you know, these are, these are the things, right? I’m supposed to turn this thing in for my teacher. I didn’t get what I needed from somebody else. I’m supposed to give this thing like, is the right answer to say like I know it’s super frustrating for the town, but the right answer is to wait. Like, I’m, I’m genuinely asking that question. Or is the right answer to say like, no, we have an obligation to do something by April. We said we’re going to do something by April. We’re gonna force it through by means that will probably annoy many people, right? Because if we have to make zoning recommendations to UTO to put into a plan to give to the planning board within the next 2 weeks. I can imagine that will ruffle some feathers. I’m just gonna put that on record. That’s, can’t wait. For The letter about that. um, and so Caroline, yes. I’m, I’m sorry, I just wanted to say that the fact that the guidelines more. Almost continuously, how can we make any bona fide. Concrete plan, knowing that these guidelines, there’s, they’re, they’re sort of there’s such chaos right now. It’s, it’s just crazy to think about making a plan that ostensibly complies when we don’t know what the guidelines are going to say tomorrow until the SJC comes down and and makes a definitive answer for us all to understand. So maybe I would ask this, let’s say until the next meeting, because to your point, we have time. We’re going to assume that we are not going to put this on the warrant. I want everybody to just think about if we’re not going to put it on the warrant, what do we want to say at town meeting? Right? Cause that’s really when I started, I mean, I don’t know that we would have a plan because that would go by and not ruffle feathers, right? So I’m just again trying to take an opportunity where we have a lot of people in a room and leave that room smarter on the topic. I 100% agree with that, but I think to the point of like, let’s say today we’re saying, We think this won’t go on the warrant because we don’t have a thing to put on the warrant. But if that’s the case, what are we going to present. I have half a mind to tell you to get up there and say, Here’s how far we got and here’s what we did, and here’s where it stopped, and here’s why, and do a little dance for us because I’d like to at least see, you know, their PowerPoint prowess at this point. Um, And then maybe next time’s discussion in 2 weeks is. Since then, do we feel like there’s a reason to put it on the warrant, unless anybody is right now leaning to put it on the warrant. Are you leaning towards put it on the warrant? I want to hear from you what they would have ready. For April. You want me to bring you chill in at the next meeting, December 2nd. Do you wanna have UTO come to the next meeting. Yeah. Cause it means they’re not gonna have anything to present, then yeah, we, I agree we can’t put it on the warrant. We need to have something, but I’m also, I’d like to talk to them and express my frustration of why that, that’s that’s gonna be a very exciting meeting, um, I would say. If they had to put together a compliant plan. What would it look like? And have them just present that in 2 weeks, what would they, what could they we bring so we could take, you know, speak to the community, solicit feedback and some fashion because that would be the largest. You know, focus group they would have had thought about this. Yeah, the plan board still has their own role they have to take to recommend it here the planning board, be like, no way. I mean, well, this would be if we don’t put it on. So it would be more of an of a. You know, a presentation on what happened, what we we’re at and what we think is gonna happen further. They wouldn’t come in and I can ask. Well, we can also see if it can be a joint meeting with the planning board. We might have to do if we do a joint meeting, we might have to do it. I, um. O Zoom virtual only because I don’t think we have, well, I don’t think we have I don’t think we have I don’t think we have If you say you have nothing, is it you have to your point about the plain board, is it that you have nothing good or you have nothing complete or you have nothing. Because if we’re saying it needs to go on the warrant. People wanted what I hear is like people want the opportunity to vote it down. Put on the warrant so we can vote it down and move on. Like that’s what I’m hearing. So I’m like, so show me what it is we have here and you don’t want it on the warrant, right? I mean, I do not want the form-based code, and I will say that some of the things that were being addressed, there was like sidewalks and traffic exchanges and and ease ease of movement throughout the downtown and kind of solidifying what the look is and creating like tree-lined entryways and a signage to make, you know, Patton Park actually have an entryway that says Patton Park and like there were some really great things in it and also like how do you how do you solve a traffic jams, and could you Could you create like the concept of, of roads going in new roads being created to, to ease with the flow. Like there were some great things in there that have nothing to do with 3A, but have everything to do with kind of beautifying the downtown and making a cohesive feel to welcome to Hamilton, you know, and I think that’s the frustration is that is that all that good work needs to be incorporated in, and that’s what the advisory committee was doing and all their sub-meetings with Amil and Jonathan, and, you know, beautiful. vision of what it could look like and then the complexity comes in because they’re looking, they didn’t want to just take that because they’re consultants and they want to have their own way of doing it, right? So there’s this massaging that has to happen with the planning board and UTIs and then it really gets handed off to the planning board, and then they kind of massage it and do it and present a beautiful picture, and I feel like, you know, Jonathan Ammo, who had been running it, need more time to do that massaging to try and give it the best shot to get. it, to get it across the line. Um, but again, I still stand that it should still be separate, like there should still be that kind of beautification of the downtown and ease of transportation and the concept of a rotary, you know, Asbury in 1A. It’s like Amen, right? Because it’s a disaster and some other interchanges that are so disastrous, like, and then, like, where do we want to add more density? Where do we want to allow for multi-family to happen, and if we did that, what’s it going to look like? Because I’m, I’m a, I believe that if we, if we actually had to do 3A because there was a gun to all of our heads and, you know, whatever, I don’t know what they would have to do to make me be happy about it, but if you were going to have to do it, like you would want it to look not like Beverly right now. Which is a disaster like I, I can’t believe all the buildings that are going up in Beverly, right? You just wouldn’t want that here. So this is sort of a protective. Of what it looks like. But I think that that’s that cohesion. So I would be, I’d be I’d be. Worried about coming and having them give you a presentation about like What the buildings are going to look like and what the density is going to look like when the planning board hasn’t done kind of their interpretation of it that’s what I was just gonna say that that’s the part that they’re they can’t tell you what it will look like because that’s the part they haven’t been able to get out yet, like they ask, OK, it’s form based code. The, the big question is what do you want the forms to look like they’re not getting an answer on that so you can’t draw it and show you what it looks like, really, because they’re not getting answers from, what do you want the films to look like? But, but here’s my question. I’m, I’m back on like taking it all out of it. What zones are we proposing for 3A. That’s all I want to know is like, what are the zones? Can I just jump in, can I ask that we You, I think you want me to bring you till to the December 2nd meeting. I’ll ask if the planning board wants to do that as joint or at least if they send, uh, A subcommittee of planning board members to meet with you and we can talk about, that’ll be a big. The only thing I’m gonna do is that we’re gonna ask to to detect classification here firsts aren’t here all night long, but, uh, that, that’s the other major thing that’ll be on that meeting on the 2nd. OK. Two quick caveats. It’s great uh form based code and, and try and get have walkability and beauty and all that. I’m telling you right now, I have read at least 12 letters from HLC back to communities who thought that they’ve complied and HLC comes back and says no we’re doing, we’re doing it our way. So I don’t think form Bas Coast is gonna, I’m, I’m sorry, from his code is going to have any effect on what HLC tells us we have to do. And second, and, and, you know, your decisions are your decisions. I just want to give you this other caveat. Towns who have already voted 3A in. have voted them in under these onerous guidelines and to Rosie’s point, these guidelines are constantly changing. Once you’ve changed your local zoning and handed over to HLC HLC can say you’re in compliance today and you’re out tomorrow and you’ve got to put in another 500 units. That’s the way it is. So once you hand it over to them. That’s it. So just, just keep those things in mind, that’s all. Thank you. Yeah, and again, I, I don’t think there’s anything to vote in April. I just I’m trying to. Yeah, I think if we think the guy, I’m just trying to get more people in the community comment on stuff and I, and I feel, I feel bad about all the downtown vibrancy stuff that could be happening, the cool discussions they were having in meetings that got complex when you’re throwing. 3A, that all stays and sits on a rock until April. And then Nothing happens. And we’re not moving. We should have a plan to at least move something, do something. But, um, but I do feel, you know, That we won’t have a plan and for, and probably a good reasons we shouldn’t vote a thumbs up or down on a decision in April. Just trying to think what something else could look like to, to talk about, you know, what we’ve done, where we’re going, and what happens, why, you know, what’s going on with Milton, you know, educate people in your, your point is well taken, it might be a good time to set aside part of town meeting to talk about that at the beginning, uh, we usually do, we do a report and like as we’ve done with other things in the past and um it’s a big enough town anyway with everything else going on. I think if you say it’s such a big topic, we’re gonna have a separate meeting. for that so we can give it enough time and not have people stay there until 5 in the afternoon. Yeah, no, that’s, that’s valid. Because they’ll come back, do an update. they’ll come back, they’re gonna come back. You’re gonna get enough people to show up for a meeting to deal with it whenever we have to deal with it, if we have to deal with it. And if, if the SJC says the regulations were not properly organized and, and sends HLC back to the drawing board to go through a whole, um, constitutional process. That, that alone will buy us more time. Well, I don’t think there’s anything wrong, and I think it’s a very good suggestion to um think about an update at the beginning of town meeting. It doesn’t have to be a long discussion. It can’t just be informational. Um, I, I appreciate your frustration about that, and I agree, and we will have a lot more information in general by the time April rolls around and we’ll be able to give that to the public. So yes, I, I agree with you. Um, might be. There probably will be you’re likely to get something in January, but From January to April, just for the amount of time you need to propose for meetings and things like that, you won’t, you wouldn’t be able to get it done in time for 845. I also think there’s something to be said for breaking down in that meeting. Not 3A, but like in order to pass form-based code, you’re talking about expanding one of the actual warrants is expanding the downtown district. But potentially, yeah, there’s expanding the downtown district, there’s passing form-based code within whatever is defined as the downtown district. Then there is the definition of 3A zones, and then there’s the adoption of form-based code within those 3 A zones. And I think you have to sort of walk through because then you frame the conversation as First we’re going to start with, do you want to extend the downtown area. To include these areas. Yes or no, regardless of what happens there, you still have form-based code alive. For code passes, you still have the idea of 3A, and the 3A passes, I think you have to do it in reverse because you can’t. Pass. 3A, you can’t retroactively add zoning onto or compliance onto 3A, but whatever it is, I think maybe walking through that would help people understand that like. Within each of these, you can control some of the levers. You can just vote for form-based and not extend downtown and not vote for 3A. You can vote for 3A and not form-based code and not extending downtown. It’s like a buffet. It’s a buffet. It’s a buffet of zoning, but nobody thinks they’re not linked. Right, right. And that’s the whole reason the HDC came in and said, you know, I don’t want it to go down in flames, you know, because it has a 3A label on it. Um, This was a good, this was good, um. I’m not, we’re gonna probably move on from discussing this agenda further, but, um, I do think that The, I mean, the elementary school is going to be on here, um. And we should at some point just have a, a powwow with, uh, Eric. So that just so you know, Eric has uh said that they’re, they’re playing at the quintuple boards meeting to provide an update on the process on the consolidated school proposal at the quintuple boards meeting so that will be the first half hour probably of our meeting on, on Wednesday night, Wednesday, Wedneday night at 6:30. 6:30. Can’t wait. Just 1 2nd. Hey, I’m missing my wife’s birthday for it, so that’s a terrible thing to do. I’m bringing my child. He’ll love it. Um, OK. I see that Mark is here. Do we want to cut over to Mark. Welcome, Mark. Hi there, can you hear me? We can’t. There you are. There he is. Yeah. Hi there, how are you on your inaugural meeting. I apologize, I tried to to log in through my laptop. It was unsuccessful, so I’m trying uh try an iPhone, so we’ll see how that goes. Looks like it looks like it, you’ve been here since you got in and haven’t had a problem, so that’s good. You wanna, uh, folks, this is Mark Connors now, uh, our director planning menus, um, obviously you all know that Patrick retired last week. We brought Mark in a few weeks ago, um. And he’s been Working with Patrick to get up to speed on things, um. I think I, we asked him to prepare a little, you know, talk with you and be able to answer some questions, so I will let Mark take the floor. Great. Well, I could, um, thanks, Joe, uh, it’s great to be with you. I just wanted to uh introduce myself briefly. Um, I, most of my career was in New Hampshire, a lot of time on municipal planning, a little bit of background in regional planning. Uh, a little bit in Massachusetts. I worked um in northern Middlesex County for the regional planning agency there. Um, and then in New Hampshire for the National Regional Planning Commission, uh, mostly in transportation kind of land you explaining. And for the last 8 years have been on the municipal side. I worked for uh the town of Bedford as the assistant plan director. Um, Bedford’s kind of just outside Manchester has a fair amount of developments, so that was my position was very much focused on site plan review and sort of um reviewing applications as they came in and getting it through the process, um. The last 4 years I was in In Stratum, New Hampshire, uh, which is just outside of, uh, Portsmouth. It’s uh approximately the same size as Hamilton. It reminds me a little bit of Hamilton, uh. of a rural semi-rural suburban community. Um, I would say conservation was a big issue in, in Stratum, but they’re also very interested in historic preservation, uh, trying not to be heavy handed about it. They didn’t want to create a historic district, but they wanted to uh have a little bit more regulatory say in when historic buildings could be demolished. Um, they’re also interested in sort of um Improving housing diversity similar to Hamilton, it’s a, uh, mostly a single family kind of uh. Housing options they’re looking at sort of diversifying that a little bit. We didn’t have in Stratum, we didn’t have MBTA communities, obviously, so, um, the town could be a little bit more, they could choose how they want to do that, and they chose to um really tie it to historic preservation. So, um, we, we drafted up by a lot for town meeting that. Uh, it created a heritage district and it, if you were willing to preserve a historic building and invest in that building. There were certain incentives for the property owner. Related to increased density and things like that. Um. And I think anytime you talk about density, you’re in a rural community of sort of lovely rural community, people get concerned and it’s, it sort of can be a tough sell at town meeting, but because, because this approach was, I think the planning board is really focused on historical preservation side of things. Um, it was successful, um, so. Uh, I realized that Korea is really taking up a lot of oxygen right now, uh, in Hamilton, but, um, it is an interesting challenge and uh Looking forward to working with the planning board not only on, on 3A, but there’s a lot of other things kind of floating in the works. There’s the accessory dwelling unit law that’s coming into effect. And the planning board is very interested in kind of. Uh, advancing the master plan and implementation of that, so just wanted to uh introduce myself and, and answer any questions if you have any from, from me. Awesome. Thanks Mark and welcome. How fun for you to to jump in at this time. Yeah Any questions for Mark? Yeah welcome, Mark. Do you feel like you got a good handoff with Patrick and how the ample amount of time, time in transition, uh, information, you know, through that process. I think so. It’s a good 3 weeks. Uh, today was my first day, kind of solo, so, um, No, no issues yet, but it’s only been one day. Um, but, uh, I think, I think Patrick’s said he is available by phone if there’s any questions that pop up and uh we have a great staff that are available to kind of help me along the way. Absolutely. Anybody else? Welcome. Just, I just want to say welcome, Mark. It’s very nice to have you here. Look forward to working with you on various issues. Thanks, Rosie. Likewise. Awesome. Well, I’ll tell you what I tell everybody else. You won’t hurt our feelings when you hang up. You’re obviously welcome to stay. But we know that you probably don’t want to, um, so, but thanks, thanks for coming and introducing yourself and hopefully we’ll We’ll get to see more of you. Thanks, Mark. uh, thank, thanks for your perseverance and getting back on to the meeting. I apologies for the mix up earlier. OK, no problem. See you tomorrow. Thank you. Right. Cool. Uh, OK, so folks may remember that last time we were looking at the, uh, meeting calendar and we had requested a couple of shifts and shuffles. Joe was just gonna make sure that there were no conflicts with, uh. The only, the only thing really that we had to be cautious about is that um the board has to approve the um election ballot question language, uh, for this new school and the slate of candidates in advance at a certain number of time, a certain amount of days in advance of the actual election and by making sure that you have that by March 10th, we’ll be fine with that. So, um, the, based on your recommendations and your requests, the only Tuesday meeting will be Tuesday, January 21st, um, right after the holiday. But then the other meetings that we had been looking at shifting in February, um. It works out pretty well because of the uh. 5 week month in in March. cool. Just as a heads up. So we punted, uh, the meeting from February break week out. Also happen to be my birthday week, so we planted that out. Um, and then the two, the meeting that was on normally would be 20th was, uh, is, uh, MLK Day, so that’s now going to be on Tuesday, um, we still do have an April break meeting, but I think we determined that we would have quorum, um, either way, um, and then for Cinco de Mayo, there will be a party afterwards, which she can say cause she’s saying that she’s not gonna be on the board anymore, so she’s going to have to host the party. Yeah, I’ll be in the car. I’ll be in the parking lot with. Nerolo and tacos, um, all right, so do you want us to vote on this? Is it, it’s we, we usually ask you to vote on it. I will entertain a vote to uh confirm the select board meeting schedule from January 1st, 2025 through, uh, June 30th, 2025. Remod. 2nd they got it. We, we’ll give second by to Rosie because she tried twice. I like that. I get something. Give her 1 and 2, Uh, we’ll do a roll call vote starting with you, Rosie. Kennedy I. Tom Meyer’s eye, Bill Wilson I, Carolyn you I. The eyes have it. What happened? Nothing. Just asking if you want your favorite word? Oh, OK, so, uh, also last time we met, we talked about the 2025, uh, town manager and select board goals. Um, I had actually asked to tables so that we had a little bit more time to come back and talk about the specificity of those goals. Uh, and then I had. Asked Joe, if we could also just put a line item in here for communication planning goals because, uh, with Cindy, Cynthia Cindy, did she wear Cindy. Uh, coming on board, part of her role is active communication management and outreach, um, and so just sort of considering like what are the areas of priority that we have for her, we’ve tossed around like all sorts of things about like, you know, doing a website readout or understanding the reach of the red alerts or getting, um, quarterly direct to mail stuff out there, but it would be nice if she had some hard and fast, uh, COMs goals, so I thought maybe we could talk about that as well. Um But since last week, the town manager and select board goals. We’ll start there. Not everyone it wants. I do find it overwhelming. Um So I do think. The water one was the, the big one from last time, um. We have had an ongoing back and forth, and Rosie, you and I had, there was very robust conversation when in the planning meeting that there’s been this like will we join Salem Beverly, but even if we joined Salem Beverly, does that actually matter because we’re all using the Ipswich River and ultimately this is about getting on. An alternative plan and so we just needed to have like a a notional agreement within our town about like which direction we were gonna go. So we’ve been working with the North Shore Waters resilience task force that’s uh Senator Tarr had organized that a couple of years ago. We’ve been working with them. They’re, there’s a lot of work getting ready to start around that right now, um, with, there’s been a lot of planning work that’s been going on behind the scenes for the last couple of years and the planner that was hired, uh, Dewberry, happens to be the towns. So they’re very familiar with our water systems and our water needs both and, and our water challenges. So, um, They’ve just put me on a subcommittee that’s going to be looking at making recommendations to the whole group of communities in the water resources task force, so I think that first thing I could say is that the next step would probably be um tied to our communication goals of better explaining to the public here and uh and to the board, um, what the task force is looking to do, um, they haven’t. Voted on that yet, but we’ll be doing that over the next 10 to 12 months. Uh, the goal is for them to have a set of recommendations to take forward and then petition the state, uh, legislative delegation to help us get funding, uh. Through the state and federal government and other means, uh, there. Really focused on a wider uh regional solution that would include Hamilton, and I think that to this point, the task force recognizes that just having people partner with Beverly Salem without additional water coming into the region isn’t a solution. So what that looks like is still up in the air. But So I don’t want to say anything that would then be taken out of context and said, oh, town manager Hamilton said such and such is gonna happen and then that’s nothing’s been decided yet, but there are a handful of, uh, Solutions that they’re looking at. OK. I do think it would also, I, and I think this, this goes along with the The education of public like. What is sort of the boilerplate around, you know. We hear like we have 5 years of water left, or we have 20 years of water left. Um, and I know that we have the reports, the water reports and the stability growth reports and all that, but like, what is the state of the state for water. And I think being able to say like, realistically this is where we are, I think, you know, this has come up for 3A, that we have a 3% growth ceiling, um. Interestingly enough, I was, I pulled the Salem Beverly and they have much larger growth quotas, but we share the same water source, which is bizarre, um, so just sort of understanding the impact of, you know, where are we now? Let’s all get on the same page and then. Your point, add that to the communication goals for how we sort of talk about it going forward. Anything else around water. Is there a date for when? You would issue a report So, we have, when was the last um water report 19, um. And I, I Those had, those were, those had forecasts in them that are still viable, um, and I think we could probably revisit those. I don’t know when we need to refresh. That Data, I, I think my, my concern is more like, you know, Things move at a snail’s pace, and if we’re saying that either a pipeline or a daisy chain or whatever it is, is gonna take. 15 years and $100 million and we have about 15 years of water left, like. We should be starting to build something. Or have a plan, like, I don’t know today, um, and I don’t know what levers we need to pull to, you know, I know Bruce, Senator Tarr. It focused on water, and I know that, you know, Casner’s focused on water, but It, it kind of just feels like a conversation topic, not necessarily like an imminent. So I mean, I think there’s been more, and I guess that again goes back to communicating. There’s been more than just communication, uh, just conversation rather around this as I said they spent um about well the two different grand streams of totaling around 3500 to $400,000 in state grant money that’s been set aside and is being used to study the issue and make recommendations on viable alternatives to protect not just Hamilton but the entire region. Some of the things that we found by going through the process where that, for instance, Hamilton and Wenham are included in the original charter for the sale in Beverly Water Board district so it would just take a vote of our communities and sound and Beverly for us to join them. But there’s a ton of work that needs to be done at their plant for them to have the capa capacity to serve us and, uh, you know, we need a little bit better understanding of what that would mean financially for our ratepayers if we were to make that kind of change. And we’re still just using the same water, we’re just taking it from Beverly Salem instead of producing it ourselves with our own wells. Right. Um. You know, and So those are all part of the conversation. Hamilton has a plant now that is basically removing PFOS to an undetectable level. So we’re already compliant with current, uh, EPA standards on that. Some of our neighbors aren’t. Um, what does that mean? If we’re going to partner in the long term with all of our neighbors. And it’s a larger regional conversation is that sound and Beverly Water is that MWRA. those two entities par a partner, how much does it cost to tie us into that. So that’s what Duberry, um, and another agency have been doing their study work on. So this subcommittee will now look at all the work that’s been, been done with those grants and start to make recommendations to the larger group. Yes, sir, um, John McGrath Fincom, um, Last April. I’m speaking as the chairman of the FinA at the last um town meeting, uh, when we’re reviewing the Capitol, uh, I specifically called out water. And um and mentioned that the Final is going to uh Dig into the subject of water and then report back. Um, at the next April town meeting. Uh 2026 or 202525. So in 24, I said we’re gonna, we’re gonna. To roll up our sleeves and take a look at it, um, and then we’ll just come back with a point of view. So we, we’re, I, um, so we’re, we’re still on the hook to do that. Um. referenced the Dewbury report, um, and a couple of members of FICO have said. Uh, they want to devote some time and, and we are going to have a point of view and, and it revolves around financials, um, and there are some pretty stunning financials in the Duer report in terms of cost. Anyway. Um I think we owe the town. A healthy. Point of view on water. All right, I think that I think it’s not just the Fincom, I think it’s a select board and Joe and hey, here’s the state of the state. So I wholeheartedly agree that um I mean, the FICO is going to do something. But I think we ought to partner and give the town a pretty healthy update. Um, water is a big piece of. create concerns as well. So anyway, um, we’re we’re planning to do that. We haven’t made a ton of progress yet. Um, we actually want to spend some time, um. With uh Mr. Olson. And learn more about the infrastructure and and sort of what’s going on. But anyway, just as by way of reminder, we wanted to devote some time and At least give um our point of view and if we can have it be a more robust report out to the town. I think it’s a, it’s a report at the town meeting that might be worthwhile making and it doesn’t have to be for that as our Our goal as well that like we have like a 5 slide that includes what we, like the state of the state and then the financial implications of that and then an overview of like the Dewberry, the subtask force, and just sort of start there. And that’s why I asked what was the goal. So I think, you know, we’re more than willing to partner. Um, because I just think You know, after what we’ve just been through here over the last You know, summer and now. Water being an issue, it, it’s just kind of raises the uh the temperature, so to speak, on the whole topic. So I just think we need to do a nice job. And it may be every year, we do a report out in April on water, something like that I do think that like when you talk about goals, I mean, I think there’s the goal of of a plan which it sounds like we’re working on, but. I mean, more and more just the idea that like going into these conversations, we all need the same. Basic understanding of the situation. And I think that’s something we can start doing now because I’m hopeful that when we do finally get presented with the options. We don’t have to spend all our time educating about the background, we can actually focus on the options and like. What to do because what seems to derail us is a disbelief about The inputs, if that makes sense, and I’d like to start that conversation. Now, yes, sir. Uh, Jeff Austin, 50 Sharon Rhodes speaking on behalf of myself. Just curious with the water conversation, is there any Uh, entity on the North Shore thinking about a desalinization plant. I gotta think when you think about the whole cost of new pipelines, that’s got to be comparable and probably more life, life to it than a pipeline. Just curious. It’s a good question. Um, so desalination is one of the things that um. Deberry has been asked to study, um, Horsley Whitness is also involved, so that’ll be part of the, uh, Horsley wins another engineering company that’s being looked at. Um, I’m not sure that I don’t believe they’ve released financials yet on that, but I know that’s not the, that is not currently the. option they’re favoring. Cost of desalinization is high and then at the new desalinization plant, even if you build it, you’d still then need to run pipes to that to get it into the rest of the network. So it’s not. It’s not just like do this instead of that, um, but Yeah, there’s a lot of things that factor into it, absolutely. Debury and Horsley Whitten will have information for the task force to consider. I think there was, there, if I read correctly in the, in the interwebs, there was one, was it Brockton that was like $75 million to build. And of course there’s all the operating costs and things but I just weighing it out against other options also I was wondering. So I think a lot of our discussions around sources of water, right? What about infrastructure and what are the projects that we have to do as well, that’s probably part of what you’re doing that’s part of the Hamilton local Hamilton discussion is, uh, the water capital issues, there’s two sets of capital issues. Do you continue to make improvements and investments in the water plant to produce our own water. Um, and then you still have to continue to upgrade the pipes because many of our pipes are very, very old and have to, are in need of replacement and, you know, we’ve seen that in the last couple of years in the wintertime, especially with various, you know, Pipes breaking and having to be replaced and and fixed in emergency situations. So we’ve done a good job in the last 10 years of replacing some good runs of pipe. There’s still more to be done. So the question becomes with capital, you have a limited ability to do capital projects every year. Do you focus on distribution, the pipes or do you focus on production, the plant. We’ve put a lot of money into the plant in the last 5 years, that will get us to the point where we have hopefully another option. Uh, for a different source. Um, it’s a balancing act, right? I mean, I just want to make sure this goal has to do with the infrastructure I don’t think we did anything last year cost for capital if I recall, did we? We, well, you got to remember the towns through. has been spending has been upgrading both the plant and the pipes for the last 10 years at a cost of like Almost $15 million in money that’s been bought bonded just out of the water enterprise fund. There’s not a great capacity to continue to do that without bankrupting the water enterprise fund. So we’ve been very cautious these last couple, this last year, 1 year and a half and what we’ve recommended to do there to make sure that we’re allowing ourselves, in fact, you’ll remember when we set water rates when you set water rates last time, part of Tim and the Tincom’s plan was to set the water rate in a way that you can build some reserve and Do projects with cash instead of having to bond, so. Got it. That’s where we’re at. I was very annoyed with the select board when I got my water bill. It was. Did you look in the mirror and I Then I forgot to pay it again and got the late fee, so that was good, um, your sprinkler. I, my, my, my lawn looks like we cook drugs for a living. I have not watered that thing in years. I’m just kidding. It’s terrible. Um, All right. Cell tower, I think we covered this last time, but as a recap, uh, we are punting the continued cell tower conversation. I do think that’s part of the communication. I don’t think so, not entirely. Um, because we’re, we’re going to focus on the on the mesh network so we’re gonna look at that and we should talk about the lease buyout thing as well where we, we’ll get they’ve called me again, um, but they’re just offering the same amount of money, so I haven’t responded to the voicemail but I think we had the expand carriers was the prior year. and I think we determined that we would no longer be looking to expand carriers that do you mean expansion that’s up to we can’t do that. That’s something that don’t do that. That shouldn’t be his goal. His goal should be really, uh, you know, expand tower locations. We you know, the, uh. But I think we decided that’s a second tower wasn’t worth it because there was no carrier interest on the tower we had. There’s been there have been two things. So we were told by, uh, the, the entity that built the last hour that they were having trouble getting. More people to get on the tower and um just a general, I think Bill’s commented on it too, just in general like. Pause right now and building more towers, not a lot of companies are out there doing it right now. So we’re looking for ways to improve, particularly in the downtown area cell service without a tower. Right, I just want to make sure that right here we have a goal that it’s expanding carriers and look at town-owned properties. My understanding was that we were not going to do that for the next 12 months. We were going to focus on the wireless network. Well yeah, I mean we should always hope they expand carers at the existing tower. That should be something that we we that’s something for Everest we that’s something for Everest to do something that Everest, who is the third party who just want to make sure they don’t beat you with a stick that you don’t want to be beat with no, no, no, I’ll help him with this one. He’s gonna get an A on it. So yeah, this, this, this cell tower is more. Digital connection and in the downtown, which has turned into the mesh network and the lease buyout negotiations if there are any. Right, yeah, so those three components we’re looking at maximizing revenue on the existing tower, you do that multiple ways, you could sell out the lease, you could expand carriers on it right now. I think it’s Verizon and Dish and you can hold up to 4 on there and that’s, you know, what,, $2400 a month or something. There’s a decent revenue stream there over a 20 year period that you could capitalize on, but, you know, Everest has said they’re having a hard time getting other carriers to come on. This is a tough year in communications, you know, there’s a lot of hope for next year, 25, you may see, you know, more, more. towers built, but the net, these fixed wireless mesh networks are kind of taking over. It’s a, a lower cost rollout with better coverage and dense areas if you will. So I think that’s something we’ll explore. I will say carriers, you know, one of the big prohibitors, we don’t have to solve these now, sorry, but was the school right there? You know, it’s really no, they said people don’t want to build a tower around a school for many reasons, absent that, you know, they may, you may get more interest in something like that. I don’t think that’s ever been discussed, but That’s a good goal. Well, um, could I just ask, what do you mean by mesh? I’m sorry, I’m not a techie and any more integrated. They call them nodes and you, and you run the signal through like a mesh net network instead of like beaming something from a big 100 ft tower as far as you can. It’s like every 3rd pole might have something and they all integrate like if you have a wireless network in your home. You could buy, you know, these 4 little orby things and they’ll all talk to each other versus going back to your router and they create what’s called a mesh network. It does have a wireless and me and you’ll see ski mountains doing that. We’re doing installations and stuff. It’s pretty cool so that’s, that’s the wave of the future, that’s going to be a factor for our needs. Is it more or less expensive than um. A a a cell tower. I mean, obviously some, uh, a third party. It’s, it’s, it’s. It’s less expensive primarily, but the bigger trigger is, you know, you can roll them out there, it’s less disruptive to a community. In 100 ft tower. OK. But it does provide better network. It also provides Wi Fi and you can, you know, just, then you could have all your businesses just, you know, when picture yourself downtown on your phone and you’re going to Crosby’s, all of a sudden it says, hey, welcome to the Hamilton Wyndham Wi Fi network. Would you like to join? And then you could be Wi Fi calling or texting about the milk you’ve forgot to get or something, so. So, that sounds like the, it’s the most advantageous solution, at least in the downtown area. I think so. Yeah, I It’s also the one that we have the most agency over. We do. We don’t seem to have much agency over driving interest and towers or carriers. So. Yeah. OK. Um, town hall. Could you just get that little shovel and we’re gonna go pictures on Wednesday and. Opening the building up on December 1st, so I mean we’re, we’re moving contracts are signed, everything’s moving forward. Great. Uh, you know what, actually, good point though, um, because the contractor’s taking over the building and the contractors have decided that they do not need to take the building completely offline, uh, they’re gonna set up their offices and or they’ve already set up their offices in the basement and we’ve moved Tim and Pete to the basement to track the project, but our, our clerical staff for that department, um. Gale and Dolors were originally supposed to go into a a construction trailer in the DPW yard. We have instead, um, got them secured for them in office space in above the post office and they’ll be like, they might be getting moved in there today and tomorrow. So they’ll be moving over there, uh, their hours and stuff they’ll the appointment, it’d be. Visit them by appointment, but they’ll be, uh, they’ll be in the office the regular hours and available to meet with folks as needed, but, uh, the landlord has asked if we could just make sure that it’s by appointment to come up and see them if you want to pick up a. I was a sticker for your mattress or something, you can just call the department to find out that they’re time you come up and you’ll get your sticker they left the compost bins unattended in town hall? Uh, like asking for a Pete and Pete and Tim were in the construction. It’s gonna be a construction site. Nobody’s gonna be able to get into the compost bin, you don’t know what I would do. The raccoons already I’m gonna pretend I didn’t hear the raccoons already took care of the lid on my new one. OK. Uh, 3A community housing zoning, um, God, please, let’s not go over that again. Yeah Yeah, we’re not gonna No comments. No, I would just I would just add that, you know, the primary liaise between, um, UTL and the, the sort of management of decision coming out of. just like That’s That’s important. Um, so for communication, uh. Joe had discussed like working up a goals plan. With Cindy and bringing that back to us to sort of put together her 12 month calendar and then we can review those goals, uh, more discreetly. Does that work? OK. Um, and I think what we’re hearing is like staying within the themes, it’s. Um, You know, happenings around, like happenings and then it’s water, it’s things of that nature, um, and I think we talked about like dividing it into two, there’s the, the topics and the channels and how we sort of divide that up and just making sure we’re clear on. You know, we have the red alert and then we have the general alerts. We have Facebook, we have Uh, direct to mail, we have letters in the water like it’d be nice if she could just put together a whole list and then we could go from there awesome, um. Gordon Con all good. All right. Any other stuff on the The goals that we want to go through. Uh, do do do. There will be, well, I don’t know if it’s. Um, depending on what happens with the development agreement that went to Gordon, we may need to pick up the overlay district conversation again. Um with the planning board chair already. You did, OK. Oh, or they may tell us to just go pound sand. We haven’t heard from them yet, so OK, uh, master plan, that be a goal? Well, I’m asking. The planning, I mean, really mess, I mean, it’d be a combination of the planning board working with my office, I guess to get the resources the implementation of the plan like publishing on the website, like I guess we we’re working on that now, yeah. OK. It’s, um, a lot of the components of the master plan were not integrated into one document, so it’s trying to get them all to talk together and every time you play with it in one format, it, it changes. Settings and things and it’s been a bit of a challenge, so we’re working on it now. And Mark mentioned that right away. I was pleased to hear that, so that’s good, um, honest answer. digitization of records. Did we digitize any records? OK, that’s fine. I, I, I love that. Do we want to pretend we’re going to digitize records. I think we need to records. We need to actually make it a a. Not just a gold one like goals here, but we have to find the resources because they save money there’s just this feels like a very ripe summer internship project. So we fit in nicely with the town hall renovation plan too we’ve been trying to catch on fire and that’s the end of them. You don’t have to just bring everything back in and find a physical home it’s digitized. OK, we, we, we have like we’re talking like 10s of thousands or like 100s of thousands. Going towards the 2nd hundreds of thousands of records there. Yeah, I’m sure the state is just chopping at the bit to give us the money, so. Um I can look at grants for, we can look at Grants for. I would say let’s just, let’s just get the plan for the plan. *** or get off the pot is what I’m sort of thinking in my mind. I’m sure none of those other microphones picked that up. Um. digitize or don’t digitize. There is no perhaps digitized. Um, OK. Anything else? On goals, anything we’re forgetting. I like the communication ones. I don’t, is there any update on like when the first is it HW News, right? Will be published or any, cause that, that’s a good vehicle, right? No, no firm date yet. Cool. I’m excited for it. By the end of the calendar year. Awesome. Bill’s hoping that he can have his headshot on the front page. So if you could just make sure that happens. Um, And then the um do we want anything around, and maybe this isn’t a goal, uh Joe goal or an our goal. It’s like just we talked a lot last meeting about boards and committees and kind of communication between, does that go in maybe this or a separate subset about. Kind of creating glue between all our groups and making sure things don’t bubble up and it’s too late to impact. Yeah, I mean, it seems like we should have some sort of like aging report on vacancies and like try to figure out like what the, the timing is, um. Lori had organized that, you know, what the, what the different terms were and who’s up each year and when Cindy and I will work to continue to, you know, roll that forward every year, um, it’s. But communications between the boards is just the, the part that, um, Specifically between your board and my office and those and the various committees. Are we allowed to use targeted Ads for The hardest thing you can do like. You know, zip code-based Facebook ads for, you know, we need a planning board member, we can certainly have um. We can certainly have between Bobby and Cindy create some messaging on our official town sites, we can, I can, we can ask them to look at what it would what it would take to do targeted Facebook ad or Instagram ad uh to folks who live in our I just feel like it’s an echo chamber. We’re all asking the same people to join the same boards and maybe, maybe there’s some new, some new blood out there. Be nice, um. Alright. Looks good. Would we like to, does anybody have any new business? OK, um, When’s our next meeting? December 22nd. Yep OK, good. That’s OK. You’ll be meeting the 2nd and 16th and then you’ll be off until. January which I might need you to play chair that day. Um, all right, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. No, you may may 2nd that. All right, we’ll start with a roll call vote, Rosie. Rosie Kennedy, I. Tom. Tom Meyers, I, Bill Wilson I, Caroline Bou I it’s a wrap. Uh, that’s a wrap. Thanks y’all.