Hi, I'm Paul Germain, and welcome to another session of smart boating. As you know, if you watched the show before, we cover a wide variety of topics here from men overboard to navigation. And the general idea is to provide you with some information to help you make smarter decisions and have more fun on the water.

But every now and then we take a little side trip like we're going to today and we're gonna look at the very interesting world of Maine lobster boats. And joining me is a very knowledgeable guy in that area, John Johansson. John, how are you? Very good. How about yourself? Not bad.

John, we got a really cool show here today on Maine lobster boats, but before we get into it, can you share a little bit about your boating background and specifically that which relates to Maine lobster boats? Well, I was brought up in Mattapoise, so we weren't really, we did have lobster boats and they were Maine and

my father was involved in them, but he passed away when I was really young, uh, but we've always, I grew up in a boatyard next to a boat yard 100 yards away. Alan Weitzy's boat yard, which was in Matapoisea. And my uncle was a shipwreck diver, so I've always been on boats.

He used actually used, uh, boats similar to a Maine lobster boat for going out wreck diving, uh, but my real love came when I moved to Maine, went to private school, and, uh. Uh, after getting out of medicine, I went into, uh, writing for the Bangor Daily News and then I started my own

newspaper on just boats, so I got into all the boat shops, got to know all of the boat builders because I growing up in a near a boat yard. It was really what fascinated me and also its history. So not only did you go in and you followed what the boats

were being built and getting that information, but go back and see what was the history, how far back do these families go, and you can chase it all the way back into the early 1900s, right, right. So when did you start doing that? How many years you've been doing that? 0, 40, 40 years.

OK. All right, thanks more. Well, it sounds like you got just the right experience for the show today, so I hope so. Why don't we get right into it. Sounds good. We've got uh a variety of of photographs from different yards, and I think it might be interesting to show people.

Some, some examples of what the boatyards in Maine do. And uh maybe starting with some of the older boats. Now, what we're gonna do is we're gonna swipe through various pictures of different style boats in the families, um. Just as a kind of a mental marker, any idea of when lobstering kind of was established in Maine.

This is one of the earlier boats, obviously, but yeah, lobster started back in the 1800s, mid 1800s, but it was actually not food for the, the people. It was actually food for the health. So it was really a throwaway food. They actually also used it for fertilizer.

And, and it started with what we call a peapod, so it's a double-ended skip. OK, OK. Then it actually the engine started coming well before even the engine you had what was called the Musconga space loop that went to the friendship loop and then they started putting in. Then the evolution started.

Now you can get into big argument, uh, and the main one that's stuck so far is that a guy came over from Digby, Nova Scotia and his name was Will Frost. He settled on Beals Island in the early 1900s. And started to create what we know as the modern lobster boat.

Now, the evolution also was derived in special localities, you know, so our boats in Jonesport are a lot different than, say, boats to the western in southern Maine, but also what drove it was the size of an engine. Yeah, right, so this would have had this picture that we're

looking at here would have had a fairly modest engine. I would guess it's got a, you can see it has central bow, kind of an interesting stern there and I don't know back then, a 30-40 horse or something was probably a big new back. Yeah, and that could be a transition from a sailing

vessel, you know, because they basically tried to shove. But in anything they had, it kind of looks like that shape, right, especially the transom. This is more modern and this is what we call a spray hood and it was trying to get you out of the weather a little bit more

because these fish have been fished all year around and, and back then there was no climate change and it was nasty. It was, yeah, yeah, yeah. And these guys would fish no matter what. So this is about a 22 ft maybe something probably 25 footer out of wood, all wood, wood and some of them were what we

termed as a throwaway boat. Uh, they weren't built overly well, but they would. Maybe last 7 to 10 years they'd run it up on the beach, build a Planned officer lessons, yeah, yeah, and uh how many traps new one.

00:05:19,870	would something like this haul? Oh, they probably could haul 20 to 40 traps a day, you know, when we're hauling 300 to 400 traps. Crazy. There's another older boat. What kind of kind of following a trend, uh, an evolution if you will, and, and this has it looks like a steadying sail on

the this is a riding sail. This is a boat that was built by who we knew was June day. His real name was Frank, but his father was also Frank, so he was junior, so it broke down to June, and he built in Brooklyn, Maine, which is home of Brooklyn Boatyard and a

number of other boat builders, uh, very, very well. Uh, and his brothers Arno day and a lot of people uh who are wooden boat aficianos and some of his boats actually made it down here was, uh, his brother Arno's boat, but very, very good planers and this boat here, uh, was probably built in the 30s. Or 40s.

OK, OK. And it was, you know, this one is basically is, as you can see, it's not used as or lobster boat because it has no hauling side. I see, right, right, it's pretty boat. Yep. Now someone that was very popular early on was a Calvin Beal. Yeah, Calvin Beal has been probably since the 70s.

And Calvin came in. He learned from Ernest Libby Junior, who we know as Nie. Uh, Ernest Libby Junior, uh, helped Calvin learn how to build boats. And then Calvin took it to the other step. He started to look at the design of boat and so because Nerdy actually designed too, he designed the Young Brothers

boat, which we don't get into today, but he was a, a, a good designer on his own and he also has what there's a line called the Libby boat, which is still being built. Both of them are still being built today. Now we have some different photographs here. What, what in particular strikes you about this?

So this is what 2 or 30 this is 28 footer. It now has a probably you probably don't want to know the horsepower because it's over 1000. Uh, this is in a lobster boat race in Booth Bay Harbor, uh, but this boat made claim to fame when it hit the bridge in

1981 and lost the baby over the side, and they were able to recover the baby. The baby's fine. He's now known as Jeremy and Jeremy runs away. Beal's boat job, but this is a very, very fast boat and always has been, and it's basically the name is really little girl. They've taken the the S off.

Oh, I see. All right. We have about 6 pictures here. This is Kimberly Ann. This is an interesting boat because this thing, this one started out. Calvin builds a 30, 34. These are the new Calvin models that are produced by SW Boat Works. So they do a 30, 34, 3638. Then they wanted to do a 42.

These boats because they have what's known as reverse curve that goes from the keel out, it actually concaves. Uh, you can't cut it off at the transom and extend the transom, so you actually have to cut it well. Look at the back end of her name. That's about where she was cut,

and they added the 4 ft in there. Oh, I see. OK, a little modification. So this is now a 42. She's a very, very fast boat, a very good looking bow, and one of the more popular lines that Calvin has the 42. Yeah, this is Bailey and Bella. This is, uh, actually was built

before the 42 came into existence. Uh, most of these are great big offshore, uh, fishing boats, uh, more fuller up forward because they're carrying a lot of weight. They, they usually got. Some interior. uh, this one here actually does a lot of tuna fishing, does a lot of lobstering.

He comes out of, uh, Keith Jordan is his name, and she comes out of Cape Elizabeth, but he's always in the tuna, uh, tournament, so. Now, Calvin also designed numerous for numerous other builders. This here is a Mitchell Cove. Now Mitchell Cove was actually produced and went to David Schlaffer.

And David Slafer, uh, built, I don't know how many of these things very, very prolific. Uh, he doesn't do them anymore. The moles have actually ended up down in, uh, Cutler, and they're offered down there and there was a number of these boats. There's a 32, a 35, 37, but that was about as big as they went.

He also designed for, uh, Terry Jason, and those were known as T Jasons. Then he designed as we're gonna come up here next. This one here was actually an interesting one. This is a Calvin, uh, 30, uh, this is a uh Crowley Beal 33, and she was designed for Jimmy Beal, but

the 33 is actually comes from the Crowley Beal boat. All right. The Crowley 36. Jimmy turned around and cut it in the middle like I told you about where the window is, the port light. So he cut it there and took out 3 ft. Which was interesting because usually they go the other way

and I think he, he knew that some people were looking for a little smaller boat, something easier to handle, but anyways, and uh this one was actually produced. It's called the Crowley Beal 33 was another one that was very prolific. They did, did a number of these. This one was finished by uh Stevie Johnson, uh, at

Johnson's Boat Works on Long Island which is off Portland, Maine. OK. Now Calvin And a relative named Willis and Willis, we don't know what the relationship is. They're close, right, but Willis, and they started about the same time, but Willis only built wooden boats. He did, he does, did own some glass boats, still does.

This one here is one of his 38, and this was a prevalent model. This is silver dollar. Uh, she was owned by one person, Merle Beale, for years and years and years who lived on Beale's Island, fished it. He actually took this boat. And went all the way to Baltimore one time because he

got the got into the mood that he needed to go somewhere piled in. That's a nice looking boat. It is, and there's sweet models. They really go well. This boat now is on Islesboro, which is up Penobscot Bay, and she's being rebuilt. Oh, so. This one is a smaller boat. I think she's 35 or 36.

She was built in 1985 and you wouldn't know it. It's owned by Willis's brother, Robert. And uh she still fishes to this day, uh, but always maintained the high, high standards, beautiful. This is one of uh Willis's first fiberglass boat, so this is probably how we got paid because a lot of times when a

designer designs a boat they get one of the hulls. So and sometimes they get paid for each hull after that too, Oh, I see.

00:12:26,830	but sometimes not, whatever, but this was done by RP. This is an RP 35, and he had this for a number of years before he gave it to his, uh, grandson or nephew, uh. And he fished this. I think he even did a little bit of dragging with it, but not very much. He mostly fished with it.

Oh yeah. So it's an older boat here, huh? Well, it's actually not. It's actually based on an older design. These boats were actually produced in Maine, um. Between the early 1900s, say 1905, all the way up into the 40s, and this is a torpedo stern boat and this was built by Willis in 1992 for a family

that lived down in uh Port Clyde. And we have that boat in the yard right now and she's just getting a spruce up. OK, so family, this is for recreational use, yeah, but this is actually would have been a lobster boat back in the old days and there's some really interesting stories

because as you see, it's around the transom. Now where did that originate? Who knows, you know, people went up and down the coast, the whole East Coast, and it was always by boat, and they would say maybe see this in the Chesapeake, the skipjack, you know, so maybe that's where it came from, who knows.

Now there was one guy up in Jonesport that always said that they were towing a model to test it out in the bay and it rolled over and it towed better upside down and that's how they got the stern, but most designers just laugh at that. That's a little different, yeah. And this one here is an RP40.

This was designed for Willis's son-in-law, Travis and uh. Uh, another popular model is the RP 40. Unfortunately, the RP, uh, 31, the 35, and the 40, the moles were burned up. They, the, the shop that had them, uh, which was RP Boat Works, which was in Steuben, uh, had a major fire.

They lost the shop, and all the moles were in it. They have been resurrected by tailored boats, so they are still available. Oh good, good. Now here's Willis building what he does now, and he always said that if you ever, because he was a friend of Alvin Beal and

I think that was his uncle and Alvin was a great boat builder. A lot of them boats ended up in Rockport from Alvin. So, uh, but Willis was told by Alvin, once you start building the play boat. You'll never go back to building a railroad, and these boats are built exactly like the original boat, and it takes

them a winter to a winter and a half to do one of these models. This one's 63 inches long and is, uh, based on the model which we know today is little rev, but it was Killer's boat, uh, William, uh, uh, Smith, who was known as Killer, uh, but because he was a good fisherman.

You know, another popular line is Hollins, and you know, when we think of a lobster boat, we oftentimes think of a 30, 32, 34. Here's a smaller sky and and a lot of times this is what kids fish out of. You know, they'll go out and haul 5 to 1015 traps, whatever they're license.

No, actually they probably have a real one because they they well they go through an apprentice program and I'm not sure how the apprentice program works but it it allows them to work their way up. So when they get out of high school if they still want to fish completely, they actually have a full blown lolicense.

All right, but the Holland 14 came in. Probably in the 1990s and uh this boat is actually racing and the kid actually made a lot of money. He thought that that was a real career for him because he, you could, you can make a lot of money depending on the races you go to.

But it's, but it's a very good boat. If it handles very well. It can take a lot of beating and a lot of fishermen use them either just to get out to their boat or whatever, yeah. Now the most popular, that's a traditional 32, right? This is the 32 and Glenn Holland, who owns Holland Boat,

uh, he went to Royal Lowe, and Royal Lowell is from a very famous family. You remember back when I mentioned Will Frost. Well, the Lowells are married into the Frost family and they've carried on the tradition. And this one was taken to Royal Old before he passed away,

passed away in 1984, and he designed this boat and of course Glenn had a lot of input because he wanted the traditionally looking boat. It's only got a 10 6 ft beam. They're pretty, pretty boats. They are and very popular both, not so much commercial because they don't carry as much gear, but the, the yachters love

them, but it's a day boat. That's what we basically tell people. This is the Red Baron. This one actually held the record for a number of years at 57.8 miles an hour, uh, with a chief engine that was 1100 horsepower. Chief Engines was out of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and he was

the smartest one because he went to a guy that built engines for offshore race boats, but this boat actually went to San Diego and was in the America's Cup as one of the chase boats in 1995. We shipped it out there and it actually got him to sell a couple boats out there, I believe so.

And the rumor is that this boat's coming back, uh, onto the racing circuit. I'll believe it when I see it, but he says next year. OK. This is actually the first boat before the 32. This is a Holland 30, and the Holland 30 sold a number of

models and was being laid up in East Booth Bay by Harry Farmer, and then he suffered a major fire and these moles were burned up. And so Glenn went out and asked all the fishermen what they would do different to the boat and that's when you got the 3 the extra 3 ft.

They wanted an extra 3 ft on the boat. OK, so. But it was also a very, very popular model. Now every once in a while somebody comes to Glenn and asks to extend the boat. Now this is a horror show for a guy that's a naval architect.

Yeah, you know, basically they look and go, you can't do that what you're thinking you're doing because what they do is they cut the transom off, probably a foot. You just cut it with a grinder, right? Then you move it out line it up by eye sometimes you use

straight edges and then you got to extend the skeg usually. Sometimes you don't have to because there's, you know, maybe there's enough room there so that the skeg in the prop and everything works fine. But this one is a 41, and he went in one week and asked for

it to have 1 1 ft longer than all the 40s that had been built and there's only a handful. There's not very many 40s out there. The biggest one was Whistling Dixie, which is owned by, uh, Johnson, Andy Johnson out of Harpswell. And but anyway, so he had this and a week later another guy

came in and ordered another 41, so he wasn't the only one. This one's very well finished off. He actually put a fur deck in the uh platform which is really, really nice.

00:19:27,130	Here's another brand. Oh yeah, we're in Westpac. Actually not designed in Maine. I believe it was designed by somebody from Massachusetts. And, uh, but what he brought it Big Beam, uh, and there's a line of them. I don't know how far they go down. 38 is the one that's more popular, and then it goes up to

42, and then there's a 46, and then they actually expanded the 46 to have a super wide 46 and then they've extended them all the way up to 55 I believe and I think there's a, there's a 57 coming. Because the main marine patrol is getting a 57 with a tier 4

engine in it, and we won't go into the tier 4, but it basically has to do with the mission. I see. And they're gonna be like the guinea pig, but this one, this is a this is a super wide, uh, 46. Now this is another lobster boat.

This is a full time, this is Marshall Spear out of Portland or Yarmouth and uh he's, this is a 46 that was extended from a 42. I believe now they actually have a mold for the 46 super wide. OK, but this one had 4 ft added to the transom.

Now not all boats in Maine end up lobster boat. This one here was finished off by West Mac and is the boat that goes between Stonington and Isahoe, and most people here know Linda Greenlaw, uh, who used to fish out of, uh, Gloucester here. Uh, she actually has ties to Isahoe,

even though she's married to actually she's married to Steve Wessel who owns West Mac. OK, so. We always said that she, that he's the one of the best salesmen in the world and and could sell, you know, uh, I used to Eskimos but she knows all the Eskimos because all the Eskimos know her. All right.

But anyways, this boat actually is typical of when you uh. Uh, see something done for, uh, another special organization. This one's to be in a ferry boat running people back and forth, but they've also done some for schools where they actually do a lot with, uh. Uh, research with that different types of uh

superstructure there, do they have to do anything changing the design aspect of the no sometimes you actually bring a designer in because if, if you're gonna take people out, the Coast Guard gets involved, then you go to sub dey and all of the regulations that fall under that stuff.

So it would have had to pass Coast Guard inspection and you know, and they're pretty close anyways because they don't want to build a boat that doesn't. Isn't right. Of course, of course, yeah, I just think that would change. I have all that weight up there would change the perimeters of

what the hull should be doing, you know. This is a sport fish. This is a sport fish. This is called backstabber, and I remember this boat when they actually, uh, took the order, thought that they could do it in a year. About 3 years later, she went out the door and she fishes basically out of Portland.

How many is this? This one is a 454 I believe. Yeah, and she's a fishing machine. So when they go after tuna or swordfish or I think this one goes out after anything, you know, anything that's running, they'll go out after it and she's out most days.

I believe that Pete, uh, Peaches, who used to be on, um, Wicked Tuna, he helms this boat a lot. He, uh, he worked in Portland and I think he fishes that boat out of Portland Yard Services in Portland. Well, we've got a few, uh, photos from, uh, John's Bay boat.

So now we're gonna go luxury side of things. Well, not really because he prefers to build a real, uh, lobster boat, but his real lobster boats, one of them went out to Metinius Island, and what was interesting, the old fishermen came down. Well, wooden boat. This is really nice, and they got on board.

Then they took a look below deck and they go, that ain't right. Yeah. It's usually everything's varnished down below. The ceilings all varnished, and then the, uh, all the bursts are mahogany and they're all varnished and some have a simple galley, some more involved galley, uh, none of

them would have a head because most people in Maine still use a bucket and because it never breaks, you know, uh. But this one was a guy that actually had 3, had had had 2 boats from Peter because uh John's Bay Boat Company is owned by Peter Cass. And so he came back and asked Peter to build.

I think this is only a foot longer than his other one. All right, and he lives in, I believe it's Westport, Massachusetts with that experience, he's, he's incorporating all the things he's learned along the years in terms of what he likes, and he uses this boat, does he? Yes, quite a draft it.

Yeah, she probably, because I believe she was a 47. So she's probably drawing 5.5 to 6 ft and as you know she's actually sitting on a cradle. Yes, and this is actually brought out of the shop on a cradle like the old days no brown L trailers, no great big lifts, lifts.

No, this is all done by human power, yeah, yeah, but how many what did we say this? Probably it's 47, yeah, yeah. Now this is some of the work that they do and they some of it is subbed out to people in town that are very, very good

woodworkers that you know that Peter doesn't have to put on staff, you know, so they'll build a cabinetry and stuff like that but you can see the teak deck and the if you go back. There's a a fuel hatch in the deck that's bronze that comes out of a company called RE Thomas.

They're only $1200 of crap, but they're really, really nice. Oh, I bet they are. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful I mean and a lot of AE Thomas does a lot of custom work for Peter Kass. Oh. Now this is the interior. That's a shot of the galley. This is just before this boat was launched, and you know,

it's just impeccable work and he likes doing it, but I'm not sure that this may not be the last over 40 ft boat from Peter. They might be able to talk him into more. Oh look forward right here, yeah, and you can tell that this boat is for cruising and I believe he took this boat

because it was launched in June and she went almost immediately over to Canada so he could cruise the Canadian Maritime mhm.

00:26:02,369	And here she is going in the water the old way with breaking the bottle and what's even more interesting is we, uh, the owners come all the owners of all the Peter Cass boats come to the launching and we line them all up in front of the

boat and take the pictures and we try to get the crew, but usually the crew's kind of shy, you know, on a tradition, yeah. And this is a traditional lobster boat. Uh, actually Stonington has about 13 or 14 of these boats in the fleet. And people ask me, well, why would you go to a wooden boat?

Well, a wooden boat fish is better. If you want to extend your fishing life, you fish in a wooden boat because it's not as snappy as a glass boat. And they've tried to make glass boats and they keep telling me they can, and maybe they can, but.

For the most part, but Peter Kass has been dubbed the actual Cadillac builder of the Maine lobster boat. The first one would have been Harold Gower of Beals Island, which would have been back from the 30s, 37 up to probably in the 70s. And then there was a guy, uh, Herbie Baum out of Kenny

Bunkport that was deemed the Cadillac builder, and now it's Peter Kass. And this is Shari Anne. Uh, she, uh, is notorious. Uh, she was in a, uh, involved in a shooting in, um, Metinius. Well, we won't go into that. OK, uh, this is my wife's boat. Uh, she's a full fledged fishing boat. Uh, my wife doesn't fish.

She does valve jobs on humans or did, uh, but anyways, uh, this is a 40 footer. Now this is the next to the last boat that Carol Lowell designed. Now remember I talked about Royal with his brothers Carroll. There were 4 brothers. And so Carroll was another one of the designing, uh, he picked

it up mostly after his brother Royal passed away. And so, uh, Peter started with Carollo designs and then two boats after this, Peter decided to actually change the design a little bit, which is typical of all these boats. They've always gone to somebody and if they see something they like, they incorporate it into theirs.

Yeah, makes sense, yeah. Well, John, uh, we're covering a lot of ground on the, uh, lobster boat waterfront if you will today, uh, from the earlier boats, the different yards and the different designs that they provided. Um, is there anything you'd like to share before we wrap up the show today? I don't know.

I think it's interesting to see the, the design changes, uh, over the years, and it's very hard to put that into, uh, a half hour program, you know, and show exactly all the little nuances and sometimes what's even more interesting is the stories that some of these boat builders have, you know, but.

And there's some interesting museums up in your neck of the woods, right? I'm, I'm actually the uh president of the board of the Penobscot Marine Museum. Uh, we host the half of the Atlantic Fishermen Collection. We have a beautiful photo archives collection which is all online. All those photographs are online, all scanned in.

Uh, so anybody can go to that. So they want to learn more about that. What was is there, uh, address URL for that? Uh, it's Penobscot, uh, Penobscot Marine Museum. Just search for that. And the other one is Maine Maritime Museum, which is in Bath. All right, good.

Well, thank you any time, and thank you smart boating viewers for joining us. If you have comments or questions, uh, please visit visit us at our website. www.smart voting.com. Thank you.