00:00:00,167 S1: Seven. It's 7 p.m. and I'm calling the October 10th, 2024 Planning Board meeting to order. The meeting is being recorded and I will begin by taking roles. So when I call your name, please indicate that you're present. I know Pat Norton will not be here. Jonathan. 00:00:22,100 S2: Poor Jonathan, poor present. 00:00:25,367 S1: Uh, Bill Weedon. I don't see him yet. Emil dahlquist. 00:00:30,067 S3: Emil Dahlquist here. 00:00:32,367 S1: Uh, Beth Herr. 00:00:37,901 S1: Uh, Darcy Dale. 00:00:39,467 S4: Joining us. 00:00:41,467 S1: Now. Liz. 00:00:49,801 S1: Did you say that, uh, Bill Wheaton was joining us? 00:00:53,701 S4: No. Uh, Beth. 00:00:55,868 S1: Oh, Beth. Uh, Beth. Her. Better. 00:01:01,267 S1: You're muted Beth. 00:01:02,367 S5: Yeah. Sorry. Here. 00:01:04,267 S1: Uh. Darcy. Dale. 00:01:07,467 S6: She can't unmute herself. 00:01:08,601 S1: She's too. You're muted. 00:01:11,467 S6: She said she can't unmute herself. 00:01:16,400 S1: Can you unmute. Darcy. 00:01:21,267 S7: Okay. Great. Here. Darcy. Dale. Here. 00:01:25,100 S1: Uh, Jeff. Austin. 00:01:26,467 S6: Jeff. Austin here. 00:01:28,167 S1: Good morning. Crouch present. And I don't know whether Matt Hamill will be able to join us. Um, he has a family emergency, so we have a number of items on the agenda. But I did invite Mark Connors, our new, uh, planning director. Uh, director of planning and Land use, to join us very briefly to introduce himself to us and, uh, just enable us to put a face to a name. He has a birthday dinner with his mother, he advised me. So we don't want to detain him because family is more important than anything. Uh, so, uh, Mark, if you would just like to introduce yourself, just briefly summarize your background. And unless someone has some pertinent questions for you or we have or you have pertinent questions for us, we will let you get to your family obligation. 00:02:31,868 S8: Great. Can you. Can you hear me, Marnie? 00:02:34,267 S5: Yes I can. 00:02:35,267 S8: Okay. Well, great. Thank you for having me. I apologize, I'm a little blurry, but I'm at a winery in New Hampshire, and, uh, it was very loud, so they put me on the patio, so. 00:02:48,667 S1: Maybe we should be there with you. 00:02:53,267 S8: Um, so I'm very happy to. To meet you all. At least electronically. Um, my name is Mark. I've been in planning for about 12 years. Um, I started off in journalism, so I covered, um, I covered some planning board meetings as a as a reporter, and that kind of, uh, spurred my interest in it. So I'm back to grad school, uh, to focus on planning. And I started my career in regional planning, did that for about four years. And the last eight years I've worked for municipalities. So I worked mostly in New Hampshire, um, for the town of Bedford, which is a fairly large suburban town just outside Manchester. And I currently work for stratum, which is a town on the seacoast in New Hampshire. I kind of drive right by Hamilton every morning on my way to work, so I'm very happy to, um, be getting a little bit of a shorter commute. Um, Because I live in the Boston area. Um, and Stratham reminds me a lot of Hamilton. It's a kind of a lovely, um. Uh, suburban rural community has a lot of pockets of some pockets of suburban development, but, um, a lot of the town has been preserved. A lot of active farms. Um, when I tell people I'm going to Hamilton, the first thing they always say to me is that that horse town. So, uh. 00:04:21,100 S1: Um, the answer is yes, at least from my perspective. You know, horse owner. 00:04:28,100 S8: I told them it's pretty horsey. It's from my perspective. So, um, so that's just a little bit about me. I'm happy to to answer any questions you have. Um, since my career has been mostly in New Hampshire, I've been focused a lot on trying to catch up a little bit on some of the issues that you're focused on. I know MBTA communities is a big one. Um, as well as catching up on your bylaws and your master plans. So I hope to come in with a fairly good grasp of things, but obviously it's a bit of a learning curve. And I'm going to be meeting with, uh, Patrick tomorrow to to sort of catch me a little bit up to speed as well. 00:05:04,567 S1: Right, great. Well, um, if there's anything I personally can do to facilitate, um, your, uh, work in Hamilton, you just let me know. Uh, does anyone have any particular questions for Mark? 00:05:19,367 S7: I'd like to welcome him aboard. 00:05:21,868 S1: That was nice. Yes. We're looking forward to having you. Yeah. There's a lot, a lot of work that we have to do. It's not necessarily reflected on our agenda this evening, but we know that there are trains coming toward us. And I don't mean that it's just the MBTA communities, but there are there's a lot on our plate. I mean, we have the implementation of the master plan and and most interesting, and I think most compelling is the form based code for our town center. 00:05:51,267 S8: Yeah. 00:05:51,767 S5: Yeah. 00:05:52,467 S1: Uh, there's a lot of things to consider, and I'm sure once you figure all that out, you'll wonder why you took the job. No. 00:05:59,667 S5: Just kidding. 00:06:03,467 S1: Anyhow, I'll let you go and wish your mother a happy birthday from the Hamilton Planning Board. 00:06:07,801 S9: Okay, I will, I will, thank you very much. 00:06:10,300 S8: And have a great meeting. I'm sorry to have to cut out early, but I hope to hop on your October 22nd meeting. 00:06:15,667 S5: Okay. Very good. Thank you. Mark. 00:06:17,801 S3: Great. Thank you. Thank you. 00:06:21,267 S1: Okay, so we'll start with the, um, A&R request. Um, we do have an A&R, uh, request that the applicant is Jolene Campbell. Uh, I believe that, um, Kirsten Grable is authorized to speak on her behalf to fill us in on what the intention here was with, uh, with respect to the A and ah, madam. 00:06:51,367 S3: Madam chairman. Yes? I'm going to have to recuse myself from this project. I'm, uh, I have a personal involvement in this application, so I would like to sign off temporarily. 00:07:04,167 S5: Oh, okay. 00:07:05,000 S3: And join you after. Thank you. 00:07:07,667 S4: Welcome. 00:07:11,667 S1: So, is Karsten here? Yes. Yes. You're muted. Kirsten. 00:07:17,367 S10: Can you hear me now. 00:07:18,567 S1: Yes. And so I believe, um, that, uh, you can speak for the applicant, but as, uh, Patrick gave us a brief summary of what is intended here, and I think that what is intended here fits squarely within the four corners of an A&R request. So unless any board members have any questions for you. I see, uh, Phillip Lake is, um, uh, on the zoom call as well. Unless there are any questions, I think we can, um, make short work of this A&R request. 00:07:54,067 S10: And the the applicant is on as well. 00:07:57,667 S5: Oh, good. 00:07:59,000 S1: Does anyone wish to ask any questions or to add anything? But as Patrick says, uh, the, um, the, uh, the lot that that is being transferred will make 192 Linden Street a conforming lot. It will have no impact on the other lot in terms of its, uh, being a conforming lot. And it's pretty straightforward. So. 00:08:24,567 S2: So, Madam Chair, what might make sense, though, is for the public's benefit is, is if somebody can share screen and just just walk us through it for a minute or two. 00:08:33,968 S5: Right. 00:08:36,467 S1: Can anyone do that? I know the planning board has the, uh. 00:08:40,467 S11: I can, uh, Phillip Blake here, and I'm We're working with Kirsten on this. I can explain it. It's fairly self-evident, but if you want to pull it up on the screen, that would explain itself. I think largely it's someone able to pull it up on the. 00:09:01,701 S4: Can you do that for us, Jeff? 00:09:04,567 S6: Sure. Let me just find it one second. I got it right here. One minute. 00:09:26,501 S6: Okay. 00:09:41,701 S6: Can you see my screen? 00:09:43,367 S2: Yes. 00:09:44,000 S7: Yes. 00:09:44,767 S3: Yeah. 00:09:45,167 S11: Beautiful. 00:09:51,000 S6: I'm not sure if I can rotate it or not, but can you? If you can see it that way. When we rotate it. 00:09:55,000 S2: We see a screen saver. 00:09:57,000 S5: Oh, right. 00:09:57,868 S1: It's a nice location. Where is. 00:09:59,567 S5: It? I have. 00:10:02,367 S6: My apologies. Let me get the other screen. 00:10:07,267 S6: Let's see. Up two. 00:10:11,667 S5: There we go. Yep. There we go. Perfect. 00:10:14,501 S11: Perfect. 00:10:18,901 S4: So I can narrate a little bit here. The the two involved lots are depicted as lot one and lot two. And lot two would be Transferring this parcel A, which is 6586ft². 00:10:49,667 S4: This area would be transferred to lot one, which, um, uh, as Marnie had mentioned, makes it a conforming lot. Uh, I'll also mention the test for an A&R lot. Is that the the resulting property has to be accessible and has to have frontage. And you can see that both, uh, lot one and lot two have adequate ample frontage and adequate ample, uh, access. So that was, uh, you had the basis for my recommendation to the board that it be approved. 00:11:42,100 S1: Does anyone have any questions or comments? Any board members? Any members of the public? 00:11:51,567 S7: Marnie, shall I make a motion so people can discuss it after? It's seconded. 00:11:55,901 S5: Certainly. 00:11:57,200 S7: I move that we vote to approve this. Um, anr. 00:12:03,567 S1: So I have a second. 00:12:04,767 S2: Second. 00:12:06,100 S1: Uh, any any further discussion? Any discussion at all? Any comments from the public? 00:12:16,701 S1: Hearing none. I, uh, I'll call a roll as to whether to approve it or not. Jonathan. Poor. 00:12:25,367 S2: Jonathan poor. 00:12:26,200 S1: I am sorry, Amel, uh, has recused himself. Beth. 00:12:32,701 S5: Her I. 00:12:35,067 S1: Darcy. Dale. 00:12:36,200 S7: Darcy. Dale. 00:12:37,000 S1: I and Marnie Crouch, I. So, uh, the application is approved. And, uh, the matter can proceed. 00:12:49,968 S4: Let me mention that, uh, I will take the mylar. Copy that. Kirsten provided us, uh, as well as to, uh, paper copies. I'll put those on the table in the main entryway to, uh, our town hall so people can sign those. So please sign those as conveniently as, uh, you folks have the ability to do so. 00:13:24,367 S1: We'll do that. So I think now, uh, Aimo can, uh, rejoin us and we can go to the next item on the agenda. So if everyone can get that mylar signed as soon as possible, that would be helpful. 00:13:44,000 S10: Thank you. 00:13:45,367 S1: You're welcome. 00:13:50,167 S5: Thank you. 00:13:53,400 S5: Okay. 00:13:55,067 S1: So the next item on the agenda is a status report on the comprehensive plan. I don't know how many members of the Planning board attended the presentation by the consultants on September 30th. I was present. I know I saw Jonathan and Amel. Um, did you attend Darcy? 00:14:20,000 S5: I don't know. I was there as Jeff was present. 00:14:23,467 S1: Beth was present? Yes. Were present? Yeah. So anyhow, if you could just give us a brief synopsis that might be helpful. 00:14:33,300 S3: Thank you. Marty. Um, yeah. I'll give you a very brief synopsis. Um, since our last meeting, the only, uh, public engagement with UTA was at the September 30th meeting, and, uh, and they titled it the Public Code Development Workshop was a title that they had used. Uh, and that was kind of in reference to where we are in this process. Um, right now, uh, now being in October, we're roughly going to be transitioning into the code aspect of the comprehensive plan. Uh, so they're going to be starting to, uh, get into some of the code writing. So what they did at this, uh, workshop was to the in person was to start to lay the framework of what some of the how they envision framing the coding. So a good part of that was, uh, Mhm. Set up to show. Uh, given all of the surveys that they've gone through and the numbers that they're looking at, and a lot of the input from the advisory committee, uh, they're sort of zoning in now on how to organize the codes and what the features will be, how it gets organized. And they began with some of the guiding principles that were established by the advisory Committee and agreed to by Util. And they they laid it out in a more graphic way, including historic patterns, the vibrancy, variety, housing diversity, and connected and cohesive. These were aspects that were brought up, or these were actually core values that were brought up that, uh, the advisory committee was encouraging util to, to satisfy as we go through the process. Um, they, they did bring in some of the, uh, Drawings that the advisory committee prepared for their meetings for the workshop. And I'll ask Jonathan in a minute to explain a little bit, or give a little bit of a reference to what actually happened in some of the workshops. But we had come up with a couple of strong things. One was that streets became became very important as one of the organizing, organizing features for the comprehensive plan in downtown. Because of the nature of the or the character producing nature of what streets are like, for example, how does railroad different from Bay road? And, you know, they're pretty strikingly different in how they're laid out and so forth. So it's a good way to kind of look at this util is kind of leaning toward frontages in which they'll explain, and we'll explain more in detail as we get into the code. But frontages, as one of the things that they see as a strong feature. So they're combining those two aspects into something. I think that they're going to start laying out their code. They have not done any code work yet. But um, the the one missing piece now is that we need to get into some of the visioning aspect on the, on the project. But they went through they had a series of their, uh, zoning framework. They had the, um, they had brought in some photographs, I guess, of different towns like Falmouth, westerly, Rhode Island, Weston, mass. Exeter, New Hampshire. And they were included in, uh, one of the surveys. And they had come up with, um, they it was a preference survey. They were asking people, uh, if this were to develop, in what manner would you like to see it shape up? I mean, Hamilton has its own character. It has its own distinctive quality. So not that they're going to replicate one of these towns, but they wanted to get a sense from people. Uh, what? What are the attractive features that some of these communities had that might be put into the visioning part of the process as, as they go forward? They relying quite a bit on the survey analysis. Uh, and then they, they did a piece on the frontage types on in the historic village center, which is railroad, um, Railroad Avenue, uh, the scenic corridor on Bay road, which is something the advisory board was really stressing to kind of look to the past on Bay road. At one time it was a tree lined, uh, street, quite beautiful. Uh, and there were some photographs brought by one of the some pictures, historic pictures brought by one of the members of the advisory committee in one of the workshops. And he had a series of old pictures that were really, uh, really quite engaging and I So the idea was to kind of not turn. Not turn the Bay Street or Bay road into an active commercial place, people trying to cross the roads and so forth, but kind of build on the strength of what Bay road is and kind of bring back some of the street trees and make it a more comfortable and enjoyable place for people to walk and to look at the whole downtown. There was a lot of conversation on Willow Street. That was one of the areas that they felt there was most interest in changing. It's the Willow Street, um, industrial part, not the residential part. The residential part. Most of the folks on the advisory committee felt that it was, uh, um, you know, it could be strengthened, but it was primarily they like the way it fits in with the the old village itself, just everything to the west of Willow Street. Um, and then the advisory committee was interested in some of the, the aspect of a greenway which would be great to walk, be able to walk from the southern to the northern, or vice versa, parts of the downtown along a greenway. And so there were some options there that were investigated. So just, uh, that was really kind of the substance of a lot of what we were doing and what UT was putting together now is some, some graphics of what is a street profile, what is a railroad street profile look like so that it can be documented and, and used as a design tool going forward. Um, so as I mentioned before, we're out of transition. What remains now is to come up with, well, what what are what are the changes that need to be made, if at all, in downtown Hamilton? Uh, and the way that, um, you feel is going to be working on, uh, from here on out is to kind of focus on community involvement and and coordinating a code with a visionary plan or a vision plan going forward. And what they will probably do is start a series of meetings that have not been established yet between some of the major boards in town, like the Select Board and the Planning Board. Uh, they're going to prepare a code and then look for, uh, go through a series of feedback loops. They'll make a presentation initially to the boards and then get a get feedback on it to be sure they're still on target or on track, and kind of with the emphasis of bringing it to the community. You know, at some legitimate point. So I think that that's sort of what's to happen. So the transition transition goes into the code aspect, uh, in about a month in November, and then we work on it through, uh, through the winter and uh, heading toward the town meeting in April and trying to meet the deadline for the, um, uh, the town warrants. Uh, I'd like to ask Jonathan if he would just say a few words on the advisory committee. Jonathan chairs the advisory committee and has been instrumental, uh, to, you know, putting together a lot of these, uh, a lot of these meetings and, and, uh, being a spokesperson, really for, um, uh, for that group. Jonathan. 00:22:46,467 S2: Sure. Um, so you covered quite a bit of what we've worked on in the, uh, in the workshops that there's been three independent workshops that the advisory committee has had, and the first two kind of focused on, uh, mapping out what was special or worth preserving downtown versus what things could use improvement and looking at desired connectedness for various parts of the downtown, including even outside of town. How could you connect Patent Park to Pingree Park, for example. Um, and uh, uh, so mapping those things out, those maps, that information has been all shared with the teal. Much of that was presented at the last public workshop. And the advisory committee has been working closely with the information that you, teal, has developed through their mapping, their research, their observations and their, uh, uh, polls, their surveys. And then in addition, the advisory committee of late is trying to take all those pieces. And a lot of them are sort of in pieces, you know, street types, subdistricts, survey information. There's a lot of kind of fragments of, of things. And looking at how they fit as a system downtown, looking at the connectedness of all those things. For example, um, if this is a street type or a or or frontage type. In this area of the downtown, how does that transition and relate to the next, uh, street type that's adjacent to it? So looking at the the connectedness or the connectedness of patterns and then also the movement through those patterns. In other words, how would you move from one street type or sort of sub neighborhood to another? How would you walk? How would you drive? Um, are there road connections or there parking lot connections? So looking looking really at the bigger picture. Um, and so that's what the advisory committee has been looking at of late. And there seems to be a nice amount of engagement in that process. And folks getting, uh, interested and excited about seeing the possibilities. And each time we have a workshop, what's been interesting is we come up against our time limit and we say, well, we could stop here Or we could talk for a little while longer, and every workshop has run an hour long based on folks engagement and I'd say enthusiasm. And so, uh, that's been very, uh, for me, very inspiring and I think very helpful for folks to, to bring all their ideas together. And everybody's had ideas, everybody's contributed. Everybody has been engaging, um, which has also been very nice. And there's a lot of different viewpoints and background and a lot of history. A lot of folks on the advisory committee have been in town for 40 years, 30 years, and have a lot to bring to the to the conversation. So it's been, I think, a very rich conversation. And then we've been endeavoring to to share that those dialogues with UTC. And I think other than that, I think Amy covered quite a bit of, uh, what the, the general profile the progression is. 00:26:10,601 S3: Well, one thing I did over overlook was, uh, util for the first time, uh, announced that there will be two votes, I guess, at the town meeting. One for the form based code as the the governing or the regulating, uh, code for the downtown itself. And the second was A3A and how the three A component would fit into part of the downtown. And they did they did some mapping if you get a chance. I don't know if that's published yet on the on the website. I don't know if you know that Marty or or Patrick, whether it has been. But their presentation that would be useful to look at. Uh, but there's been no to date. There's been no study on what the three eight would look like. And it's not really been a focus of the, uh, advisory committee at this point. Uh. 00:27:00,367 S2: Yeah. I would also add that, um, uh, there's a there's an idea to separate form based code from three a, uh, and the specifics of the mechanism. How of how that's to be done is unclear at this point. It's it seems it hasn't it hasn't been shared with anybody. And the advisory committee has really not in any way engaged in that. 00:27:23,067 S5: Right. 00:27:23,501 S1: I just have a just a couple of comments and they're almost questions. So I will be really, um, intrigued to see how, um, the form based code evolves the and and and how the actual text of the code references the visual work products that your, the advisory committee is engaged in, uh, in formulating. So that part of it, I think will be really fascinating and will probably, um. 00:27:59,968 S5: Yeah. 00:28:00,367 S1: Occupy the planning board's time, you know, because obviously the language that will be part of the form based code should address a lot of the concerns and questions that people might have with respect to what happens to my property. 00:28:17,868 S5: Right? 00:28:18,300 S1: Nothing will happen to your property unless it's sold. But that kind of factual, specific information will be embodied in the code. But the important thing, from a planning perspective is how the town can evolve pursuant to this form based code in a manner that will make it, um, really, um, ultimately spectacular. I might not see it in my lifetime, but someone will be the beneficiary of it, because those pictures, the historic pictures of Bay road, were stunning. I mean. 00:28:55,767 S5: It. 00:28:55,901 S1: Was it was just stunning. And to think that all those trees got cut down, I mean, all of them, they must have been spectacular. But the only other question I had with respect to the work of the advisory committee, and this is really triggered by my time in London, just, you know, just this past week is whether the bike paths are somehow being incorporated into the planning process. Um, because that goes to sort of the connectedness between the two parks, the smart growth and all of that other stuff. And these bike paths are ubiquitous in London. And, and, uh, not only do you have to make sure you look the right way so you're not hit by a car. You have to look the right way to make sure you're not hit by a bike. And and, you know, all through the city, just like in Boston, you can rent a bike and go. 00:29:51,601 S5: Where. 00:29:52,267 S1: You know, wherever you want. I mean, it's it's the wave of the future. We're not there yet, but I wonder if that's part of this form based code. Um. 00:30:01,667 S3: Oh, yeah. That at the, at the early part we. We had a list of kind of micro elements and corridors being any number of things, not just roads, but corridors can be can be the train, commuter rail, it can be, uh, hiking paths or bike paths. We wanted to figure out where that could exist in the downtown and especially get it off the roads if possible. And so that was one of the one of the things that we were kind of studying in looking at the downtown plan, you know, and, and how we could do that. The idea being, uh, make the environment, um, at least give as much attention to the pedestrian, uh, in the downtown as to the automobile conceal parking, uh, make, make, make the downtown comfortable for people to walk or bike. So the idea, as Jonathan was saying, connectivity was really key and get people to easily go from one part of the town to the other, encouraging them to walk as opposed to get in your car in the southern end and drive to the northern end and get out and walk around. 00:31:11,767 S2: Or worse yet, get in your car and drive across the street between Cumberland Farms and Crosby. 00:31:18,667 S4: Marty, Jeff had a comment? 00:31:21,367 S6: Yeah, I have a few questions if it's okay. Uh, and, uh, forgive me if I should know some of these answers already. What is driving the the deadline warrant date? And what is that date? 00:31:32,467 S3: Patrick? You know, the, uh, the deadline date on that? 00:31:36,167 S5: It's the annual. 00:31:37,167 S1: Town meeting, but I don't have. I don't have the date. 00:31:39,868 S3: The warrant date? I think when that has to go in, I think it's two. 00:31:42,868 S5: Yeah, it's early. 00:31:43,868 S3: Month, a month ahead or something like that. 00:31:46,167 S6: So March is that we're saying March or next year. 00:31:48,667 S7: March. 00:31:50,567 S6: And what happens if we miss that. 00:31:56,200 S7: Well again get on the warrant. 00:31:58,067 S3: That's. Uh, what is the deadline? I mean, the the warrant is when it gets. That goes out for publishing. That's one of the reasons they wanted it at that far away from town. Uh, the town meeting. Uh, but from what I understand, based on last year's, uh, town meeting, they went actually a little bit late getting getting in. So I think you could modify the warrant, you know, up to some deadline. But again, Patrick should know that. And. 00:32:28,367 S4: Yeah, actually, uh, it's it's not unusual for articles to be amended all the way up to the actual town meeting. Uh, you know, people don't like that. But, you know, when you do have work that, uh, is very detailed and sometimes controversial, contentious, etc., uh, it sometimes has worked on Done all the way up until you get to in the actual meeting. So you know. Uh, I know that the town meeting is, uh, April the 5th. 00:33:15,567 S7: They usually what they might do is they'll have a placeholder so work can continue. And then when they when we get the approval from the, you know, the law firm Cape Law, then we'll then we'll know that it can go on the warrant. 00:33:27,667 S6: Well, the reason I'm asking, if you just bear with me for a second, I was at that last meeting and and and the few before that. There still seems to be a lot of contention, a lot of anxiety, a lot of confusion from the town and even even myself. Several months ago, I was like, what's this form based code? Why has it come in and seemed like it was connected to three? I'm educated now. It's not connected to three a there's aspects that could touch it, but the town residents itself there will be voting on this in April. I think a large majority of them either don't have the desire or the time to make that distinction between what form based clothes code is and how it's not connected directly to Threea or Winthrop. Um, so it's part of our and just indulge me for a second. It's part of our job of making sure we instill trust and confidence in the town. I would think it would be wise if possible. And I know this is not the most welcome idea, is just to postpone this project and let three A and the school consolidation project either succeed or fail on its own and then bring in form based, coordinate, educate the community. This is what it is. It has nothing to do with that. Now you even know you're playing with three A or with Winthrop or not, but right now it's just so conflated with those other two issues, and it's so compassionate. I mean, you were in that meeting, this last past meeting. There's people just they're just shut off. They just want to say no because they're so compassionate to three A or the school. They just want to say no to this as well because they see some sort of connection to it. So I think it would be beneficial. The form based code would be beneficial for us, but it would also be beneficial to succeed if we waited 6 to 9 months to bring it into the town and make it come. After three days cleared up after the school consolidation decisions are cleared up. 00:35:11,167 S12: I think I would agree with that 110% that the town will be so suspicious and so suspicious of anything around three A that they'll vote this down as towns are across the Commonwealth. I think there's another reason to postpone it, which is if the towns receive a favorable ruling from the court and send this back to have, you know, a different process for administrative guidelines or whatever it is, a year from now, we may be faced with a different set of constraints for three A, which is half as many units or smaller radius or whatever. And we will want to rethink a little bit how we rezone if we're not going to do as much rezoning as we're afraid, we're being forced upon now. I mean, we might have a different proposal and and to try and anticipate all that. Now, um, seems to me to be foolish and we might expend some political capital with the town, um, in trying to do it. 00:36:28,467 S4: Marlene, Marni has a or. Excuse me. Deb has a hand up. If, uh, board members are willing to indulge the public at this point. 00:36:41,000 S5: Well, I'd. 00:36:41,567 S1: Like to hear from any other board members before I hear from the public. 00:36:46,000 S5: Abel, do you want. Is that. 00:36:47,267 S2: Okay? 00:36:48,267 S1: Uh, does anybody else have any thoughts on that? 00:36:51,767 S2: I would like to add something, which is that it's helpful for everybody to remember that, um, the form based code was the leader here. It's been talked about for many, many years. Um, the consideration of how to improve the downtown rezoning downtown has been sort of on our agenda for since I've joined the board over four years. And three, I just sort of came along and smacked us on the butt, so to speak. And we had, in fact, already even made a commitment to, uh, to hire a consultant to help us with form based code. So in a sense, three A is along for the unwelcome ride in in a sense here. And while you. 00:37:40,968 S4: Could. 00:37:42,200 S2: It's not it's beyond my pay grade to to to decide or tell the town whether to delay the vote on on, uh, form based code. You could do that. But the point is that to do the preparation work is part and parcel with this consultant's work. So we can't stop that work. We can't stop that form based code because it's all it's all the same real estate. Even if there are different subjects, it's all the same planning lens, even if they're different subjects and different goals. And so we really need to continue looking at form based code, develop form based code, you know, and then whatever the consultant or the town needs to do on three a and separate them as much as they can. And then, um, it would be up to the town, you know, or maybe the plan planning board could make a recommendation of whether you take that completed work or semi completed work and then separate the votes, delay the vote on form based code until the the temperature of the town is settled down. But that's beyond my pay grade here in terms of how how this works. But it's very helpful to remember that the the the dog is is is form based code. The tail of the dog is three a in terms of this consultant effort. And you know, what do you want to add to that? 00:39:03,501 S3: Yeah I wouldn't rule out what about Jeff and Bill? You know, we were commenting on uh, the town had committed is going to it's going to miss its deadline of December 31st to meet the three a section three a requirements for some some kind of and the the reason given was that we wanted to do a study on that, uh, whether or not it was anticipated that the resistance would be as greater as it is, I don't know. But, um, um, my sense is once we, um, once we do hit the code part of this, uh, the planning board is going to have to educate itself in a lot of ways about what it means, what a form based code can do, can't do, and why, it turns out, is really the best tool that the the the I think the planning board has going forward. Um, and we're going to get through and these will be public meetings and hopefully the public will tune in and get learn a lot about it. Why? It is, number one, the best tool to plan your your community, because it has a certain amount of certainty to it. It's predictable. The developers like it because they know what is expected of them. Uh, the community is completely involved, or they should be, you know, at the outset and kind of coming up with the ideas of what is the what is the downtown that Hamilton wants to see? So that input is really important. And you have a, you know, have a top rate, uh, I think, uh, urban planning firm working on this. So I think that I think the, the combination is right. Whether whether I think we're going to find out in another month or two where we really stand on this with regard to, uh, public information and public, you know, whether they whether people are going to agree to three a or not, uh, is is really an open question. 00:40:57,601 S5: Right, right. You know. 00:40:59,300 S1: The way I look at it, the form based code is really protective of the town. 00:41:05,667 S5: Because. 00:41:06,100 S1: Once that form based code gets implemented and the form based code does provide for as of right, consistent with its parameters. So the form based code has the form of any future development in the town. So and it's as of. Right. So it, it puts some type of a break on what might happen with three a depending on the outcome of, uh, the Supreme Judicial Court's ruling. So having the form based code as a platform, if we have to put three A on top of it, we already have something that will prevent like just a free for all of three a which, you know, given our infrastructure issues, I'm not sure. 00:42:03,801 S5: It would. 00:42:04,868 S1: Be a total free for all, but the form based code would would channel or put parameters around what might happen if the town, um is required to implement three a and I listened to the arguments that were made before the Supreme Judicial Court. And there are many, uh, very interesting issues, the complicated issues, um, the questions that the justices asked asked were very piercing, and, uh, it's difficult to predict. I wouldn't even begin to predict how they would rule. There were more than 22 amicus briefs that were filed. Um, so there were definitely, uh, housing advocates that were very much in favor of of, uh, section three A to address the housing shortage in Massachusetts. So, but the the justices were very much focused on the three questions they identified for the amicus brief. And in particular, they were concerned that the guidelines, which are not regulations, the guidelines have the effect of regulations, but they were not implemented, um, in accordance with the Administrative Procedures Act. So, so there was a real question there. So the statute itself is mandatory. The if the guidelines go away, then there would have to be some alternative. And of course, there was arguments about whether the attorney general even had the ability to enforce this through a statute. But I think the form based code and again, I, I'm it's a preliminary thought in my mind. Subject to change. I mean, I think it's always wise to keep the door open for because someone may come up with an argument that's very, very compelling or there'll be some new information that would cause me to change my mind. But I actually look at the form based code as a shield for the town, so that when when three A comes down the pike, we have a bit of an armor if we need it. 00:44:23,701 S5: Yeah. So I'd. 00:44:24,400 S4: Like to add. 00:44:24,968 S2: A key. I'd like to add a really key component to that. And you sort of touched on it, but I'd really like to nail it home. And that is let's pretend three A vanishes okay. Form based code is also the number one shield, the defense for Hamilton to prevent unwanted change or development. It is not. It is not a floodgate for development. It has nothing to do with that. It's a control. It's a guardrail. It's a it's a it prevents unwanted development. If you think of it that way, you know it. It promotes what you want and it stops what you don't want. Current zoning doesn't do that. You don't have that protection. Yeah. And three A is one example. If I can just finish here, three A is only one example of that onslaught, that of undesirable development. So whether or not you agree with with with three a or not form based code, you know I and I and I and I'm sort of I want to make sure that you understand when Amel said developers like it, Developers like it not because it opens floodgates to development. Developers like it because there's no surprise about what's allowed and what's not allowed. That's really key. Really, really key. I'll stop there. 00:45:50,100 S5: Again. I'd like. 00:45:51,367 S7: To. Excuse me. Um, I, um, I think we should consider a strategy, though, because there are no more newspapers, and it's going to be really hard to get John's ideas out there. So maybe what we should do is consider, um, at town meeting and see how things go. And if if one of if we perceive that the crowd, the the legislature at town meeting are going to be kind of negative about it, we can always pull it and save it either for a special town meeting or the following town meeting, because if if we let it, if we know the town's going to go against it and they do, we can't bring it back for two years. 00:46:32,868 S5: Right. 00:46:33,467 S7: We'd have to be very. We have to strategize about how we want to use this system that we have. 00:46:38,367 S4: Yeah. We agree. 00:46:39,067 S2: So all those statements. 00:46:40,601 S5: I will. 00:46:41,367 S4: Make the I, I think Darcy's comment is is definitely important to to make. But let me, you know, put a footnote in that because the public hearings process that you have to do on any article. Mhm. You know, and certainly both of these, you know, zoning efforts are going to have to have an article with individual hearings associated with each, you know, the public tenor and temperature is going to be, you know, I have to believe, you know, very much apparent during that process. And if it's clear to the board Word that it's, you know, the discretion is the better part of valor and holding it off. Uh, either one of them. I think that might be another. You know, uh, you know, thing to remember because, uh, you don't want to have an important opportunity being subordinated. Yeah. Based on the the bad, you know, comfort level of the vibes. 00:48:03,601 S12: Here. 00:48:05,868 S2: Again, it's important to remember, though, that all of this is tied to one consultant, um, contract. And so we can't pull the plug on the on the form based code development process. But we absolutely can pause on the vote whenever we feel like it. Again, that's not my decision, but it would be a wise decision. 00:48:25,467 S5: Right, right. 00:48:28,000 S12: The only thing I would say is, if I were the consultant, I might think about a slightly different code, uh, depending on. Let's just be quantitative. I don't know how much development three was going to force upon the town, and if it wasn't much, then we could think about a form based code that that keeps the town and its kind of small little rural character. But if we have to build a, you know, 25% more housing units, then, you know, then the front, then then then then the form of the form based code is going to look a lot different. Yeah. The consultant I that would make a difference in sort of how I might. 00:49:18,467 S5: Write. 00:49:18,767 S3: There really when you when you look at when you look at town planning, there is an ideal size and relationship and balance between the different aspects of a downtown between the commercial part of it. The residential part. The mixed use part, the very careful balances that they're going to try to achieve. So this isn't a this isn't a matter of just putting as many residences in there as possible. This is about getting the right balance. And I you know, I think that that's that's kind of key to town. 00:49:52,367 S5: Planning. 00:49:52,801 S3: And I think that that is the object. 00:49:56,601 S5: Yeah. 00:49:56,901 S1: The other the other aspect of three a at least in its present iteration is that the, the um, there can be other districts where. 00:50:06,801 S5: There. 00:50:07,567 S1: Were multi-family housing can be constructed. And one of the districts that um, UTL was contemplating was, um, out at the end of Tobacco Road toward route 128. Uh, another was on the Gordon Conwell uh Site and then obviously some part in the downtown. But we we will know the parameters of um of three a probably at the latest in mid February. 130 days approximately from October 7th. 00:50:45,100 S5: Um, yeah. 00:50:46,167 S1: And that will really shed light on on how everything unfolds here. Um, and, uh, but but the downtown isn't necessarily the only place where there can be multi-family housing. It can be elsewhere. 00:51:07,501 S6: So, look, one last thing I understand and I completely appreciate, uh, uh, full based coding. I see value in it. Absolutely. I've learned that, and I see value in it. Again, my biggest concern is the public perception of how they are connected, whether it came first or second. That's my concern. And so I kind of lean towards what I see. It's naive now to say, let's postpone the whole thing because there is a project, there's a contract there with this group that's helping us to build this. Um, and so, you know, I lean towards what Darcy said, but let's just be cognizant of what the temperature is out there. The only assessment. The only other thing I'd say, though, is that the UK utility website still has a lot of heavily. Let's try to meet three a in there. And that's that's I think that sets a lot. 00:51:50,467 S5: Of. 00:51:50,567 S7: Advertising the effort. 00:51:52,267 S5: That's I'm sorry doing. 00:51:53,367 S7: It is sabotaging. 00:51:55,000 S5: The effort. 00:51:56,167 S7: Of form based code, trying to get it out there in front. And all everyone sees when they go to that website is three a yeah you're right. 00:52:03,167 S6: So I'm not sure if there's a way to to make that distinction or separation on their website. But right now, I mean, as you read it, I'm looking at it right now as you read one of the paragraphs. I mean, it's it's while contributing to meeting three A requirements. It's written in there several times. So I mean, that's just that's just torpedoing the whole project. 00:52:20,467 S12: I mean that's probably that's probably because we have 170 towns and utilities sitting there thinking, well, if they're all going to adjust form based code, we're going to have a lot of contracts. And so I mean, they're they're kind of hitching their wagon to that horse. And but I, I, you know, from our point of view that's that's counterproductive. 00:52:42,868 S5: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 00:52:44,467 S1: Well, did anyone from the public want to make any comments? I think we need to move on because so right now, we're, um, um, kind of, uh, we don't have this precise question on our agenda. 00:52:57,467 S7: Can I can I be from the public for about a minute? 00:53:00,467 S5: Sure. 00:53:00,801 S7: Look at the northern lights that are happening right now. Outside. I if you go. This was taken in my front yard just a few minutes ago. 00:53:08,467 S5: Okay. 00:53:09,467 S7: No. Right now. 00:53:11,767 S5: Right on. Hurry up with this meeting so that we can go. There's supposed to be tomorrow night. 00:53:17,067 S12: There's supposed to be. Or Saturday night. There's supposed to be a comet, too? 00:53:20,367 S5: Oh. 00:53:21,100 S12: Yeah. Oh, yeah. All in all. All in the times one. 87 years. You see this comment? So we've never know. Human has ever seen it. 00:53:29,567 S5: But see if. 00:53:31,267 S12: They'll. 00:53:31,567 S5: Be out there. Yeah. 00:53:32,968 S1: If anyone's smart, they'll go see something that they may never see again. As opposed to this. 00:53:38,167 S5: But. 00:53:39,968 S1: Uh, does anyone from the public want to make a comment or. 00:53:45,400 S6: I believe Deb has her hand up. 00:53:47,567 S5: Hi. Yep. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, yes. So, yeah, I have a few comments. One, I think I would agree with Jeff that the town's perception is that three A is what's driving the form based code, even if that's not how it actually happened. I believe that the town manager has a deliverable to util. That is, how does three get implemented. So UTC wants to meet the deliverable set by the town manager. That's the client. And I think until that deliverable shifts they're going to persist in having a three day presence, so that's just something important to remember. Um, the thing that I, uh, brought up that I'm still not content with, uh, in the meeting on the 30th, was the drawing of the two circles. Um, there was the, you know, the first vote representing the votes the town was going to have won was just a circle, and the other was a circle and then an overlapping circle. And there was that gray part. Do you guys remember that from the meeting? 00:54:45,467 S3: Yes. 00:54:46,200 S5: And and I was asking the question, what's in the gray part that's different in the second vote. That's not there in the first vote. Right. Because it's it's overlapping circles. And so if you take the second vote away, that gray part is still within the first circle. But how is that portion of land or whatever it's representing? How is it different? And I was not uh, I didn't feel ever that I got a good answer. And I even spoke to the man, On whose name? Not Zoe, the man, whatever his name was. 00:55:19,367 S3: Matthew. 00:55:20,367 S5: Matthew. I spoke with him for about 20 minutes afterwards in front of that chart. Like, explain to me what that is. What does it represent and how? How if that second vote goes down, like, how do we know that three A isn't folded into the first vote because it's an overlapping circle? And so I think these are the kinds of questions that make us concerned that something might be coming in, you know, under the radar, um, without, uh, you know, without clarity. It would be better if we could understand, like, what's in that second circle that's overlaid onto the first circle for the gray. That wouldn't be there if the three day vote didn't happen. Does that make sense? Am I am I am I asking the question? Do you get it? 00:56:07,100 S3: Yeah, maybe. And let me just try to answer it. See if I can answer that. I thought it was an excellent question when you asked it. And, uh, The question got fumbled during the course of the meeting, and I'm glad you tried to pursue it with Matthew later, because it was an excellent question and a legitimate one, certainly. And, um, and it wasn't a satisfying answer. The reality is, at this point, they have not really, uh, determined what threea looks like in the downtown. As far as we know, we've not seen any information along those lines. So, uh, what? I can only sort of guess at this point that they were looking at mixed use where it could be business or commercial or retail on the ground floor and, and residential on the upper floor. Um, in a good part or a good amount of. They're looking for 20 acres, 15 to 20 acres in the downtown for residential, uh, to meet their requirements, meet the three a requirement and then the rest would be at a remote site. But the fact is we have not seen any of the three A yet, and we are eager to see how they're going to manage it. But that's not information we have at this point. As part of the advisory committee. 00:57:24,367 S5: But but is the but is the form based code portion that represents that. Let's say it's multifamily housing on some portion of that first circle territory, right. Is that multifamily form based code content in the first circle, whether the circle is overlaid or not? Does that make sense to me? Does that make sense to you? 00:57:51,167 S3: Yeah, we don't know. We don't know the answer to that. 00:57:53,467 S5: Yeah. And so and so I think that's a really important thing, because if you show two pictures and you're going to have one that's overlapping the other, how do I know that? What's in the first. Isn't. Yeah. Still the part that's great. Even though we didn't vote that in I guess that's you're not going to be. 00:58:07,100 S3: You're not going to be happy with the answer. But we're going to have you're going to have to wait a little while. Yeah. To wait till they actually create something. 00:58:15,667 S2: Can I just weigh in? Just for a second? It won't be a mystery when they develop the code. You'll be able to tell what that circle is. It's just they haven't done it yet, so it's not like they can sneak it in. But know what? They can't sneak it in. It's not like a secret. It will be explicit, but the explicitness isn't there yet. We haven't reached that step yet, so we all have to just be patient and see how it unfolds. 00:58:40,501 S1: Okay. 00:58:41,100 S2: Again, we have to continue. We have to continue on the on the form based code. And the three a track will happen simultaneously. We just all need to be patient. There will be clarity in the future. There will be clarity in the future. 00:58:55,000 S5: Okay. Since the topic was to follow up on the meeting, I just thought it was important to raise that point. And I just also want to publicly thank Emil and Jonathan for their leadership of the advisory committee, because they've put in a ton of hours on their own and have brought really good content forward. And they're patient with all of us trying to understand it. I just want to publicly thank them for that because I know it's a ton of work. So thank you. 00:59:21,367 S3: Yeah, okay. Thank you. 00:59:22,868 S1: Can we move on? This was a useful discussion, but I don't think we're at a stage where we can actually make concrete decisions. But Darcy, your your suggestion as to, um, uh, withdrawing any bylaw implementing a form based code if it looked like it would not pass is is a good one. So, um, let's move on to the inclusionary housing bylaw. At our last meeting, we did discuss this quite at length. And Matt, um, Hamel provided us with a clean copy. Uh, did everyone have a chance to look at this, um, version of the inclusionary housing bylaw. 01:00:13,000 S5: Yeah. 01:00:14,567 S7: But it wasn't. It wasn't that long ago. It was just a few, maybe a couple of hours ago. So I haven't really. You know. 01:00:24,467 S3: When I read it, I thought it was actually. 01:00:26,167 S7: Committed to memory. 01:00:27,667 S3: I thought. 01:00:29,367 S13: They were really. 01:00:30,200 S3: Nice. Work was. Was excellent. Yeah. What he did. 01:00:33,968 S1: Yeah. So there were really only two sections of the inclusionary housing bylaw that were subject to amendment, and they were clarifying how the number of units would be counted. And then the other was clarification of area median family income, so that the area median median family income for a family of A4 is always the measure of the um, payment in lieu of the construction of affordable units. So I went through his document. In fact, um, what what he worked with was provided by the Affordable Housing Trust. And, um, I went through his work product. I actually downloaded it. It was a word document. Uh, I found, uh, two spacing issues, which I corrected. And, uh, the omission of a parentheses. I added that back. Those were the only minor, minor, minor things that I found, but I now have them in a word document that I can forward to Patton. And then the only other thing that we have to do with respect to this inclusionary housing bylaw is to correct, um, the definition Of area median income, it should now be area median family income. That definition appears in section 11 on page 107. In a vacuum, I would recommend that it be moved to page 112. This pagination will change, obviously, but the definition should be included under include the inclusionary housing bylaw. The way the definition section is set up is is a little confusing, but that was something that Matt um, didn't address but that I can do. So um, at the last meeting, it was my intention for us to vote to improve, uh, these amendments to the inclusionary housing bylaw so that they can be passed on to town council. Now, bear in mind that Rob and Stein, um, actually drafted two opinion letters with respect to the two areas of this bylaw that we're amending, and we have amended it in conformance with how she interpreted it. Uh, we're just now making it eminently clear, so that the issue that arose in the context of the special permit for 133 Essex doesn't arise in the future. So does anyone have any questions or comments about this? And, um, do you feel that we're ready to vote to approve the proposed amendments and then forward them on to town council so that the amended inclusionary housing bylaw can be put on the warrant for the annual town meeting in 2025. 01:03:45,868 S6: Marnie, do you want me to share the document that you emailed or. 01:03:48,767 S1: No, you can, uh, Patrick, forward it to us. As I said, the the one typo I found was, Um. 01:04:02,300 S1: In section 8.3.5. 01:04:10,267 S1: Subsection three. 01:04:15,667 S1: And the. Um. 01:04:19,901 S1: There was just a missing parentheses. And the only other issues were spacing. 01:04:25,267 S3: Yeah. Three right after, uh, median family income right there. Uh, where your cursor is, there's a missing, uh, parentheses. 01:04:36,167 S1: Right. 01:04:36,901 S3: And a space after the second parentheses. 01:04:40,100 S1: Yeah. Yeah. 01:04:42,267 S3: Yeah. 01:04:44,501 S6: Okay. 01:04:46,868 S1: So we went over these changes at the last meeting, and my recollection is no one had any, um, issues with how he drafted. In fact, he he did a good job. 01:05:01,000 S7: Shall I make a motion? 01:05:02,801 S1: Please do. 01:05:04,267 S7: Um. I move that we vote to approve the amendments to the zoning by zoning bylaw and zoning map. Is that the right one? 01:05:15,767 S1: It won't be a zoning map. It would be an amendment to the, uh, 8.3, um, the inclusionary housing bylaw, and then a concomitant amendment to section 11. Um, the definitions so moved. Do I have a second? 01:05:32,667 S2: Second? 01:05:34,868 S1: Uh, any discussion, any further discussion? 01:05:40,200 S1: Any comments from the public with respect to this amendment? Uh, these amendments to the inclusionary housing bylaw? 01:05:52,267 S1: No. Uh, shall we take a roll call? vote. Uh, Jonathan. 01:05:58,567 S2: Poor Jonathan, poor I. 01:06:01,167 S1: Bill Wheaton. 01:06:02,367 S12: Bill Wheaton, I. 01:06:04,400 S1: Am Dahlquist. 01:06:06,167 S3: Well, Dahlquist, I got her. 01:06:09,000 S1: She's still here. 01:06:11,667 S6: She is not. 01:06:13,367 S1: Uh. Darcy. Dale. 01:06:14,367 S7: Darcy. 01:06:14,767 S1: Dale I and Marney Crouch, I, uh, so, Patrick, I will forward you, um, this, uh, just very, uh, modestly revised word document and, uh, the, uh, definitions, uh, either tomorrow or Friday. And, uh, we've accomplished one thing tonight for sure. 01:06:36,601 S7: Did Bill Wheaton vote? 01:06:38,467 S12: Yes? 01:06:38,801 S5: Did you vote? 01:06:39,667 S7: I'm sorry. 01:06:40,100 S13: He did. 01:06:40,567 S3: He voted. 01:06:41,667 S2: So, um, Barney, while we're on the subject of definitions, can I just, um, can I talk a little bit about that section of the bylaw for a moment? 01:06:52,467 S1: The inclusionary housing bylaw? 01:06:54,167 S13: Law, they. 01:06:54,868 S2: Know you mentioned the definitions also have to be um. Have to be revised to, to support the, you know, the, uh, inclusionary housing bylaw. This is more a broader this is more broader question about that section of the. 01:07:08,100 S1: But I will just say the definition, the definition itself doesn't have to be changed. But instead of calling it area median income, it will be area median family income with the same definition. 01:07:21,501 S2: Agree what this is. This is a different subject, but just related to definitions. Okay, I don't want to hijack, I don't want to hijack the agenda, but I just wanted to. If this is the right time, I'd like to just offer an observation about that section of the bylaws. 01:07:34,501 S1: Right. Go ahead. 01:07:35,901 S2: Okay. So I do find you mentioned this. It I find it a bit unusual the way the definition section is set up with the, um, subsections referencing the special, um, the subsections of definitions, reference referencing the special sections in the bylaw. I find this a little bit clumsy. Um, but I'd be interested to hear what other people think about it. And then in addition to that, when you go through and basically look at the definitions globally there, I find it might be worth looking at them to tune them up a little bit. For example, the building height description, um, is, I think, um, not very complete or good for the town. I think the, uh, there's really not much in here to talk about, uh, lot coverage. There's no definition of lot coverage. Um, there's just some things that that it might be worth looking at, that's all. That's my only comment. 01:08:42,100 S1: Well, yeah. And and usually you like to define things up front. 01:08:47,567 S2: Yes. That's most bylaws. 01:08:49,467 S13: It starts with Definitions. It starts there and it's just alphabetical. 01:08:55,167 S2: So why is it. 01:08:56,100 S13: Section. 01:08:56,467 S2: 11 and why is it all chopped into pieces? And then why are the pieces missing? 01:09:00,701 S13: That's why sometimes. 01:09:01,901 S1: It's chopped into pieces and sometimes it's organized. 01:09:04,868 S13: But yes. 01:09:06,000 S1: The first comment I had when I looked at this zoning bylaw was like, why are the definitions in the back? And you don't even know they're there until. 01:09:14,367 S13: You. 01:09:14,567 S1: Get there? 01:09:15,367 S2: Yes. Exactly. So. And, and and there really I find very disjoint to read if you I mean, I've had to use this by this bylaw for other projects, and I find it very clumsy compared to other towns bylaws for that reason. 01:09:29,667 S13: Um, okay. 01:09:30,501 S2: So I had an employee who's who just blew up when he couldn't find, um, the, the definition of, of, uh, lot coverage. So, anyway, um, I'm not saying we do it tonight, but I'm just saying it could be worth looking at that. The planning board looking at the definition sections kind of globally. Is this where it belongs? Is it complete? Is it well organized to be used properly? It's a question. 01:09:57,267 S1: It's a question. And that well, I the next item on the agenda was to look at these accessory dwelling units. So I made a first crack at at at amending the applicable provisions to address the new law. Uh, we talked about separating, um, the any new, uh, provisions to accessory accessory dwelling units within, uh, an existing residence versus a detached building. That was a good idea, but I have nothing further to add on that. But I did want to ask Patrick whether you have heard anything from town council about, um, the issuance of a guidelines or regulations with respect to accessory dwelling units. 01:10:55,467 S1: You hear that? Patrick. You're muted. 01:11:00,067 S4: Yeah. Thank you. Now those haven't come out yet. 01:11:05,067 S1: Yeah. And I don't know when they will. And uh, when you look at the guidelines that that were developed for three A they evolved over years. So uh, it, it it's something that we have on our plate, but I'm going to put it aside for now. So the next thing I wanted to talk about was, uh, Richard Maloney's errata. And so this sort of goes to your point. Uh, Jonathan, uh, I sent out a memorandum, and I am asking every planning board member to, 01:11:48,000 S1: Look at different pages of the bylaw, different sections and read them through for Scribner's. Error, not substance. We will not be able to, uh, look at amending um, for example, the Open Space and Farmland Preservation Development bylaw. That will not happen before the annual town meeting, but we certainly can address the errata that Richard Maloney found. And when I was looking at the accessory dwelling unit, uh, sections, I notice in the table of use regulations, it's quite an interesting sequence because the numbers jump all over the place instead of being one through whatever. 01:12:36,000 S1: Let's see if I can find them. Uh. 01:12:41,467 S1: Oh, here we go. Uh, so just by way of example in the table of use regulations for community facilities. Um, it's one through eight and then there's another eight in residential. There's one through seven that 8.2 and then 11. 01:13:04,267 S13: So it doesn't. 01:13:06,267 S3: It doesn't make any sense. 01:13:08,000 S1: It's just silly. I mean, it's like the, the, the bylaw evolved, but nobody fixed these kinds of things. And this is what, uh, Richard Maloney is, is finding too. So I'm asking and everybody has assignment. So, Jonathan, do you want to do definitions? No, I'm just kidding. Uh, I assigned section 11 to Beth, but we really, um, I don't think I think the the point of this exercise is to just get rid of any egregious mistakes. 01:13:41,467 S13: Mhm. 01:13:41,901 S1: Um and, and not to do substance. And so in terms of substance. You know changing the definitions would be a substantive endeavor. And it would require um, making sure that the definitions, you know, comport to the relevant sections of the bylaws that they appear in. So it is a much bigger task. But um, and, and so I have assigned these, this, this, these tasks. And I've given everybody, um, a lot of time, uh, into November to, to proofread approximately 13 pages, which I don't think is a monumental amount of work. Uh, so I figure that if we do clean up the bylaw, it it unnerves to everybody's benefit to have it to, to eliminate those mistakes that that we could get. Um, these the correction of errata on the warrant for the annual town meeting, and it would probably just be on the consent agenda. So I think that would be a worthwhile thing to do. Um, but again, it's we don't want to make substantive changes because that would potentially involve public hearings where we have to have public hearings. Patrick, to correct errata in the. 01:15:14,100 S13: Yes. 01:15:15,267 S1: We would. 01:15:16,167 S13: Yes. 01:15:17,567 S1: But I mean, I'd be hard pressed to see how some member of the public could say keep the numbering in the table of use regulations the way it is. I mean, I wouldn't anticipate we would get pushback on that type of exercise. 01:15:33,367 S4: Yeah, I would agree. Usually it goes the other way. They see things that we haven't gotten to yet. Is more likely, uh, a comment, but, uh, you know that. That's fine. 01:15:50,767 S1: So then the only other question I have, and in the way I set it out in the memorandum, I think if everybody just prints out their pages and, and and makes whatever corrections they find on that printed page, then it's easy to compile those pages. And then one person can make the corrections. But we would need to have the PDF of the zoning bylaw eventually made into a word document. So, so that the corrections that the Planning Board approved could be incorporated. Do you follow that, Patrick? 01:16:34,868 S13: Yes. 01:16:35,868 S1: Okay. 01:16:36,767 S12: You must be somewhere in a word document. 01:16:39,567 S1: Yeah. Somewhere must be. Yeah. So did anybody have any problems with their assignment? 01:16:50,801 S1: I mean, I just kind of did it at random. So. Okay, so we can move on from that. Uh, so be advised of the dates in the memorandum. 01:17:07,467 S3: So are we not going to deal with Richard Maloney's memorandum then? 01:17:13,067 S1: Oh, I think we should consider it all at one time. Once we get everybody's errata all together, we'll go through. Go through it individually. 01:17:22,467 S3: Okay. 01:17:23,367 S1: Um, so now we can, um, turn to board business. And at our last meeting, uh, I had drafted a letter to the Select board with respect to the formation of an implementation committee. And so we talked about the parameters of that letter. So I went ahead and provided you all with a draft letter. And I'm wondering if you have any comments or questions or whether you request any changes to that document. Um. 01:18:02,267 S7: Marnie, did you get my two typos? 01:18:05,167 S1: I did get your two typos and I fixed them. 01:18:08,067 S7: Okay. And the other thing is, um, I think it's important when we are talking about the composition of the implementation committee, that we stress that it's a broad array of town townspeople, town leaders, and it provides, um, checks and balances so that there's no one group, whether they're elected, appointed or just an employee paid employee has has, um, the power. You know, there's not concentrated power. Um, and that we're we're trying to make sure that checks and balances are in play. 01:18:46,400 S1: Right? Uh, did you did you have any specific language or. 01:18:51,367 S7: Well, that's, you know, just the composition of the implementation committee has been populated to provide checks and balances so that there's no concentration. Uh, something along that line might be helpful because people are looking for that right now. 01:19:09,267 S13: Well. 01:19:10,701 S1: Where I think that might be, um, addressed is with respect to the authority of the implementation committee, because, um, what I said is that the only ability of the, uh, implementation committee to vote would be, um, to, um, change any of the particular particular goals or action items if circumstances changed. So, um. 01:19:45,367 S13: I think. 01:19:46,667 S7: You know, having a broad array of, uh, town leaders will provide us with, um, you know, the security knowing that we're going to get a broad range of ideas and, um, people will work together and we will have checks and balances of some. I don't know, I just. 01:20:06,100 S1: I understand I can add it right at the beginning. Um, um, let me take a minute. 01:20:14,968 S7: I you know, I like it when. 01:20:17,167 S1: The committee would be comprised of the following 11 members. I see I didn't get a colon, but I don't need one now. Um, the following 11 members for the purpose of providing a broad array of viewpoints and and, um. Checks and balances as well. 01:20:40,701 S6: Mark McGwire up on the screen. Share it. 01:20:43,501 S13: You can. 01:20:44,000 S1: Yeah, you can chew. 01:20:56,667 S1: Did anyone else have any comments? 01:21:24,300 S14: I'm good. 01:22:00,200 S2: I have a comment here. Um, do we really want to. 01:22:08,868 S2: Mention Weston and Samson's performance here? 01:22:15,901 S4: Yeah, that seems a little bit more personal. 01:22:21,767 S2: Yes. 01:22:23,000 S4: Then what would be necessary. 01:22:25,868 S2: Yes I agree. 01:22:28,167 S3: Yeah, I think that's right. 01:22:33,267 S13: Yes. 01:22:34,567 S12: I would agree with that. 01:22:42,667 S2: You know, we could mention a factual history, but we don't need to characterize it in any particular positive or negative way. 01:22:52,667 S1: Okay. I'll just say the transition which navigated um the transition. 01:23:05,467 S1: Associated. 01:23:11,567 S3: But you had associated with inadequate work product by Western and Samson. 01:23:16,567 S2: I mean, I guess is that even critical to this? 01:23:19,767 S1: No it's not. 01:23:21,200 S2: Yeah. So that it seems like we could kind of delete that nature of comment. 01:23:27,868 S1: I'd just say the transition, um. 01:23:32,767 S1: Between Western and Samson. And they're planning. 01:23:38,868 S13: Yeah. 01:23:39,667 S2: Yeah, yeah. So it's more of a timeline, a factual timeline than an editorial comment. Sounds good. 01:24:12,601 S1: Any other comments? 01:24:19,467 S6: Can you. Maybe it's already in here, but do we need to have a definition of what, um, what implementation consists of? 01:24:28,167 S1: Uh, that's an authority. It's really just the implementation committee is a cheerleading squad. 01:24:41,167 S1: It's really there to to oversee whether or not the, um, master plan is being implemented and if it's not being implemented, to try and assess what assistance can be provided so that the plan can be implemented. You don't develop a master plan and put it on a shelf. You have to. 01:25:08,167 S13: Yeah. And I was. 01:25:09,701 S6: Just I was just trying to be cautious for future for further in the future. Somebody misunderstood misinterpreting what actually the action is for implementation. 01:25:19,200 S13: Yeah. 47. 01:25:20,968 S1: So look at authority then, and see if you would want to add anything to that authority of the implementation committee. 01:25:44,100 S6: No, that looks good. 01:25:48,968 S3: And that paragraph, um, at the September 17th, you need a space between September and 17. So. Yeah. Right there. 01:25:58,667 S1: Where is. 01:25:59,100 S13: That? 01:25:59,667 S3: Right there. You just had it. 01:26:02,100 S1: Oh, uh. 01:26:05,267 S3: Just a space. 01:26:17,300 S14: Conservation. 01:26:19,667 S3: Right there. September. Space 17. 01:26:25,100 S1: Oh, right. There you go. 01:26:27,367 S6: Conservation needs an eye in it. Under the Composition of Implementation Committee. 01:26:36,367 S13: Well. 01:26:37,701 S1: Um. 01:26:40,100 S13: Yeah. 01:26:40,467 S1: Here's another thought here. Um, this this letter didn't make it onto the agenda. Um, it is part of the master plan. So you can make an argument that we don't have to vote to send this letter. It's just something. 01:26:58,467 S13: That. 01:26:59,367 S1: We do. Or we can put this letter on the agenda for our next meeting, and everybody can thoroughly review it and send me, um, um, comments. and I don't think there'll be substantive comments within the next day or two, and I will incorporate them. And we can vote to send this letter to the Select board at our next meeting. Does that seem like a plan as opposed to. Yeah, as opposed to trying to read it now, but at the at the at the risk of sounding like a really, um, irritated school teacher, I have to urge the planning board to do their homework and, and read the materials, because we can't be reading these lengthy letters in minutes during meetings. It only takes a half an hour or 40 minutes to prepare to, to be able to address these things. So, um, um, we will we will address this letter at our next meeting. And so if you see typos or problems, send them to me now so that we won't have to, um, go through this process of, uh, the next time. So, um. 01:28:37,767 S1: Uh, does anyone have anything else? Uh, to report to the planning board. Patrick. Do you have anything? 01:28:44,868 S13: I do not. 01:28:46,567 S1: We do then have minutes from September. Oh, wait. I did have questions for you, Patrick, though. So we approved the regulations at our next meeting. Now, those regulations don't have to go to the Commonwealth for any type of improvement. They're not a bylaw amendment. So have they been posted on the on the planning board's web page yet? 01:29:11,400 S4: I believe they have. Yes. 01:29:13,167 S13: Great. 01:29:13,801 S1: And the master plan still hasn't been compiled. We still don't have someone who can get those maps inserted it. Is that true? 01:29:24,100 S4: No. That's correct. 01:29:26,100 S1: Do we have any kind of timeframe where that might happen? 01:29:30,267 S4: Uh, that's going to be one of the first things that, uh, Mr. Conners is going to be working on. 01:29:39,801 S4: When he starts on the 28th. 01:29:42,467 S13: Right. 01:29:43,667 S1: Because it's it's it would be important to get that up on the town's, um, website. And so, so then I guess the last order of business are the minutes from September 10th. And I did go through them. I picked up a couple typos and, uh, and just, uh, made very minor revisions to this. So, uh, does anyone have any other, uh, amendments or or problems with the, uh, the. 01:30:18,801 S13: I see. 01:30:19,601 S15: I see a. 01:30:20,767 S7: Typo. Status report on the comprehensive. Is there an extra H in there? 01:30:27,400 S6: Does missing and are missing? 01:30:29,000 S15: Is that what it is? 01:30:29,968 S7: I should put my glasses on. 01:30:32,100 S3: Yeah, Pete. 01:30:33,100 S7: That would. 01:30:33,367 S3: Help. P r e yeah, right. 01:30:36,667 S1: And missed that. Actually, you know how I missed that word. 01:30:45,300 S13: Uh. 01:30:47,267 S1: I think I said this through, you know, I do that, uh, um, uh, review function. 01:31:17,100 S1: Do I have a motion to approve these minutes subject to the correction of that typographical error? 01:31:24,300 S7: I move that we vote to approve these minutes as long as they are corrected. 01:31:31,067 S13: Right. 01:31:31,667 S1: Do I have a second? 01:31:32,467 S12: Sorry a second. 01:31:34,501 S1: Any discussion? 01:31:40,167 S1: Any discussion? 01:31:43,367 S1: Okay, we'll take a roll call. Vote. Uh, Jonathan. 01:31:45,901 S2: Poor Jonathan poor. 01:31:47,367 S1: I will Wheaton. 01:31:49,367 S12: Will read, and I. 01:31:51,000 S1: Will Dahlquist. 01:31:52,167 S3: Emil Dahlquist abstain. I wasn't there. 01:31:56,000 S13: Actually. 01:31:57,100 S1: You know what I learned? You can vote on these even if. 01:32:00,100 S13: You if. 01:32:00,901 S3: If I if I look at the video. Yeah. Yes. I haven't looked at it yet. 01:32:11,267 S1: Oh, okay. Darcy. Dale. 01:32:13,167 S7: Darcy. Dale. 01:32:14,167 S1: I am Marnie Cratchit. So I will make the correction to these minutes. Um, and, uh, we can go from there. So. Does anyone else have anything further to add to our meeting this evening? 01:32:32,100 S3: Um. 01:32:33,267 S13: No. 01:32:34,467 S7: So I make a motion. I move. 01:32:37,000 S5: That. 01:32:37,167 S13: We get. 01:32:37,667 S1: Outside and look at. 01:32:39,100 S13: Yes. 01:32:39,767 S7: We're going to. I make a motion to adjourn so we can go outside and look at the aurora borealis. 01:32:45,767 S13: Second, second. 01:32:47,667 S1: Um. Jonathan. Poor. 01:32:49,667 S13: All right. 01:32:50,868 S1: Uh, Bill Wheaton. 01:32:51,901 S12: I. 01:32:52,968 S1: Am. 01:32:54,067 S13: A. 01:32:55,100 S1: Darcy Dale. 01:32:55,901 S7: Darcy Dale, I Marnie Crouch. 01:32:59,100 S1: I gotta get outside. 01:33:00,367 S15: Yeah. 01:33:00,667 S7: Get out there. It's beautiful. Bye. 01:33:02,901 S13: Everybody. Bye bye. 01:33:04,567 S1: I'm putting it out there.