00:00:08,369	S1:
How do you know?

00:00:12,169	S2:
All right. So we evidently have somebody presume on me as somebody is trying to mess with our meeting.

00:00:16,899	S1:
Oh, great. Um, we used to take you over.

00:00:22,370	S2:
Sorry. Uh, we evidently have somebody trying to take control of our presentation, so I apologize for that. Thank you, everybody, for coming out tonight. My name is Joe Lopez. For those who don't know me, I'm the time manager here. I have been for about five and a half years. Um, sorry.

00:00:38,130	S1:
Um.

00:00:40,429	S2:
So I really appreciate everybody taking time out. I know a bunch of us like me, want to be watching the South East game tonight, so it's great that you took time to come here and talk with us tonight. Uh, don't have a big, uh, agenda or presentation for you. Um, the goal of tonight's meeting is really to have a little bit of a conversation. We want to take a few minutes and present some information to you?

00:01:02,170	S3:
I'm okay. I was.

00:01:06,670	S2:
Okay. I wanted to be able to present some information to you. I want to introduce our consultants. Um, there's a lot that's facing the town right now. We know that there are a number of issues that people have been concerned with. We have, you know, a proposed 40 B development over in Tobacco Woods. We have the student housing at the seminary being sold. We have, uh, we'll we'll just go forward with the in-person meeting. Uh, it is being taped. It's being broadcast on w cam. So hopefully we'll be able to share that with you. The good news is you'll all you in the room will all be able to see our presentation, because nobody can mess with that now. Um, so the purpose of tonight's meeting is to just, like, talk to you a little bit about how we got to where we are on some of these issues. So I I'd love to I think we're planning to do more of these types of discussions on some of the other issues. But for tonight, what I want to do is spend a little bit of time and talk a little bit about how we got to where we got to around the three a the proposed MBTA three, a zoning and our proposal, our planning process to do form based zoning for the downtown. And we're going to let the school department talk a little bit about their process on the elementary school project, because there's some overlap there, and I think there's some misunderstanding about how things transpired. We don't want to really spend a whole lot of time and have really lengthy presentations. We want to present a little bit of information from our point of view, and then spend a little bit of time taking some questions. This is just the beginning of a process. Um, so we we won't have time enough tonight to talk about everything that you might be concerned about. We'll probably make presentations here for about 30 or 45 minutes, and then take questions from you guys for about 45 minutes or so. I'd love to try to wrap this up between 830 and 9:00 and let everybody get back to their lives. We're going to be the town's going to be having other informational sessions on other topics. The consultants that we'll be introducing here in just a minute. We'll be having lots of public input sessions. They'll be launching a website this week. They'll be putting out an electronic survey. They'll be having public meetings. So there's a whole process that plays into it. They'll they'll describe that in a few minutes. I want to take a quick moment and recognize some of the folks that are here in the room. I was going to mention the people that were on zoom, too, but they're no longer on zoom. We have Caroline Beaulieu from the Select board, Superintendent Eric Tracy, Dana Lara from the school committee, myself. And Patrick is the planning director, and Wendy is our finance director. Uh, John McGrath is the chairman of the finance advisory committee. We have Amel Dahlquist and, um, Jonathan Poore and Beth Herr all in the room as members of the planning board, as well as Jeff on, who's a new as well as Jeff Vaughn, who is a new, um, uh, associate member of the planning board. and they're all here like us to listen, take information, share information, share perspectives. Um, so I want to look at my list of bullets I wrote. I tried to write something to be more, you know, professional for you. And I tried five times, and I wrote five different drafts, and I didn't want to bore you, and I didn't want to get too dense into information. So I've only got a little bit of bullet points here. Um, I think that particularly when we're talking about the three a zoning, I think it's important for folks to understand this isn't something that the town initiated. It's something the town is trying to figure out how to respond to. We don't haven't formulated that response yet. Um, we by undertaking the process we're taking, we are actually going to miss the state's deadline. We're not saying that we should or have to do this this way or that way. We're starting a process so we can figure out what is in there, what can help the town. Hamilton, what is it that we're concerned about? What do we want to protect against and see if we can come to a place where there's enough good that we can pass something that satisfies the state. But we we can't say no to the state until we get it before town meeting. And in order to have it before town meeting, we have to have this process to develop what it is that we're putting forward before town meeting. So we're not nothing's been decided. Nobody's saying, oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. None of those decisions have been made yet. Um, also with us tonight are the folks from Util. That's Matthew Little and Zoe Mueller in charge of our project for us. Um, so I think I've rambled on enough here. I'm going to turn it over to Zoe and Matthew right now.

00:05:34,699	S1:
Okay.

00:05:38,029	S4:
Thank you. Joe.

Um. 00:05:53,870	S4:
I'm going to hit.

00:05:54,829	S1:
Okay.

00:06:00,230	S4:
Okay.

00:06:08,800	S4:
All right. Thank you. Um, my name is Matthew. I'm a principal at UTC. I'm joined by Zoe Mueller, associate principal and project manager. Um, not with us tonight are two critical sort of urban designers from our firm, Carlos Sanz, Cassia and Sharon Zhang. And Mark Bobrovsky is also assisting. He's, uh, helped over 100 communities in Massachusetts develop zoning code. So he's quite literally written the book. Um, our firm is an approximately 65 person firm in Boston. Uh, we do a lot of work in in large and small Municipalities, both planning urban design and also sort of architecture. Um, so we're very happy to be here. We're going to give you a very brief overview of what we're up to, what the our assignment is, and how we'd like you to participate. Um, I will say in advance that there will be other opportunities to participate and give your input as we move further along in this kind of inquiry about what it might mean, um, to develop a form based code for the town centre. Um, I'll talk a little bit about the goals. Um, I'll talk a little bit more detail about the timeline and what this process will look like. Um, I will give you a 3 to 4 minute primer on what a form based code actually is, and we can talk about that at greater length later on. But I think it's important thing to understand why we're choosing it. And then Zoe will talk a little bit about what really the meta community's, um, law is requiring of us, what the sort of technical requirements are and how it might apply to Hamilton. Um, so the goals for this project really came before, uh, this project even existed. These were ideas and objectives to, um, uh, revitalize or revitalize the the downtown. Uh, coming from previous plans, other work conducted by the the HTC. Um, economic vibrancy was a very important one. How to support the businesses that are there, how to promote new ones and and to develop a sort of vibrant, walkable town center. Uh, part of that involves fiscal sustainability. Um, There is an effort in many towns to, um, a have more businesses, more people, more opportunities for employment in the town, but also through commercial uses and other kinds of uses to both grow and support the tax base to support basic town services. Um, another important piece that was identified in the housing production plan, and I think probably experienced by many who live here, is the the desire to create, um, more varied types of housing. Um, the demographics are always changing. Um, there are older, empty nesters, younger empty nesters. There are young people who might want to both live and work in the town, who may not need, uh, the single family house that is the predominant sort of housing type. Um, so part of what we will explore is what kind of code could promote more varied types of housing that could be more suitable in size and affordability, and promote some walkability in the town centre. And finally, um, our charge is to, um, really guide what we would call context sensitive development patterns, and that is to look very carefully at, um, what it is about, uh, Hamilton downtown that gives it its unique character, uh, its sense of scale. And how can we promote a kind of sensible development that respects that scale and can even perhaps enhance it? Um, our study area is quite loosely the the town center. Um, just to orient everyone, this is the the commuter rail. Um, Bay Street moving up here. Um, as this project evolves, Um, these sort of areas for zoning or other kinds of particular aspects of this plan will get into sort of more detail about what particular areas are affected. But generally speaking, this is sort of the the general area that we'll be focusing on for the most part.

00:11:04,970	S4:
Um, there are what we call two other distinct but extremely related issues. The first is the use of the Winthrop School site. We know that's been part of a lively discussion, and that will factor heavily into how we think about downtown as a whole, what the possible future uses of that site might be, um, whether it's housing or not. Uh, that will be part of the equation that we will want to consider, um, as we, as we move forward. Um, the second piece is the MBTA communities compliance. And so this is the what's known as act three. A um, as Joe mentioned, the state is requiring all communities served by rail to create a what we call a multifamily zoning district of a certain size. Zoning will speak in more detail about what that involves. Um, but with respect to how we approach this plan, these are two very important factors that we will obviously have to consider. Um, as we, as we move along. Um, so we are here in, in June, uh, we've been working with, uh, Patrick and Joe and Amol, um, on a sort of basic site analysis. We are gathering data about the town. We are reviewing some, uh, past planning efforts. Um, understanding a little bit what the existing density is. Um, those sorts of things we will when we next meet with the public, we anticipate what we call a public visioning workshop sometime in the middle of July, and we will send you details about that as that firms up. Um, but that's that's the event at which we want to get, um, uh, we want to solicit sort of ideas about how the public envisions the future of, of downtown. As we move into September, we will have another kind of big engagement event, um, where we begin to take that vision and translate it into a possible code. What are the elements that we want to control for? What are what are our objectives in terms of scale, character, um, and how we might, at a conceptual level, sort of translate those into a form based code. After that, we will be working on sort of taking taking that feedback and refining it into a sort of draft code, during which this is sort of in the late fall here. During during which time we will be soliciting feedback on various drafts and. Last and certainly not least, the final warrant we expect in March. But at the end of the day, the town will actually vote on on the the product that we have developed and proposed. So. An important reminder that while we encourage all kinds of participation along the way to to create the best possible input that we can get. Um, this will, as Joe said, end up in a town vote.

00:14:19,299	S4:
Um, we, uh, the town has assembled an advisory committee for us, which is which is terrific. It's an informal, um, body of residents who are not really decision makers. They are have made themselves available to us as a little bit of a resource and a sounding board so that we can meet with them with a little bit more frequency as we go along. Um, they can give us a better read of, you know, generally what's happening on the ground. And I think, uh, another important function for that group is to provide constructive feedback, but also to, um, help promote this process throughout the town and help to help us to communicate to all of you what's going on and to gather both formal and informal feedback from the residents.

00:15:11,899	S4:
Okay. I'm going to give a very brief description of what a form based code is. Um, the town, uh, solicited the RFP with a very specific idea, um, to use a form based coding technique for downtown as the most appropriate way for development. We think it's the right decision. Um, and you think it's important to give you guys at least a kind of three minute working knowledge of what it is. And in in later iterations, we will be talking in more detail about how it works. But as the name suggests, it's a type of zoning code that is concerns itself less with, let's call them abstract metrics and numbers like floor area ratio or units per acre, and is more primarily concerned with the actual form of buildings. Um, and the reason that one of the advantages of this kind of code is that it gives the town more prescriptive control over the shape and the character and the scale of buildings at a sort of finer grain than simply a table of numbers. Um, one of the best ways I can explain how this works is to give you a little snapshot of the work that we've done in Littleton, In Massachusetts, um, which is a similarly sort of suburban, rural village center kind of town. Um, there we identified sort of appropriate types in this case. Um, there are a lot of examples of what we call the sort of aggregated house, the big house, little house, back house, barn. It's a very common New England farm. It's something that everybody loves. Um, but it was a way for us to, um, imagine the building blocks, um, of future development in forms and shapes and of a scale that was appropriate to this particular context. Um, and so you'll see here, um, what we've imagined is sort of conceiving of the code as consisting of a series of basic forms. There's a series of rule sets about how those aggregate and a kind of visualization of, of how that might result in a building of a, of a certain size. This idea gets translated into the final code. One of the nice things about foreign based codes is that they tend to be represented in images. The intent is that it is easy to understand and to interpret, and is very explicit about what the elements of of a building are. So it covers everything from the treatment of dormers to the way that certain buildings connect. In the case of Littleton, we allowed what we call the sort of primary massing that had a maximum size. And then there were various ideas about how you could take that primary massing and sort of aggregate it into a, into a form that would result in a building. And again, this is a way to create a building of a certain size that is broken down into elements that are more, more consistent with the sort of the context. Um, In Littleton. This is a proposal from a developer that actually resulted from this code. It follows the rule set pretty effectively. So you can see a series of I think this is a commercial use primarily, but instead of just a regular strip mall, which a regular zoning might have normally allowed, or at least not prohibited. Um, what we're getting is something a little bit closer to what the town had imagined, which is a series of buildings that appear to be more of a village, less of a sort of shopping center. Um, another very important thing about form based codes is that it generally promotes walkability and the sort of enhancement of the of the public realm from a sort of pedestrian standpoint. And so you'll notice in this case that a lot of the parking and the auto sort of focused uses are in the back. That's a very typical form based code sort of rule set. And as a result, um, what was required was a much more enhanced sort of sidewalk condition that makes this a much more pleasant and sort of more village like sort of assembly of commercial uses than, than it normally would under a traditional code. I will hand it to Zoe to talk a little bit about, uh, give you a summary.

00:19:56,869	S1:
Of three ideas.

00:19:58,470	S5:
Thanks, Matthew. Um, I, uh, sorry for the mask earlier. I'm coming off of being sick and didn't want to get you all sick, so, um, in any case, uh, I need the clicker.

00:20:08,029	S1:
Oh. I'm sorry.

00:20:08,829	S5:
Thank you. All right, so I'm going to just give you a very basic overview of what the state is requiring with the MBTA communities law, so that you can understand how it might interact with the visioning process for the town center. So this is, you know, really just to get you started with this, this is a lot of there's a lot of numbers involved here. It can get very technical, but it's best to start early and repeat it often. And it'll it'll start to sink in. You'll start to get the kind of the logic of it. So just as by way of introduction, this is a type of work that we've been doing a lot of recently in all different contexts Newton, Milton, Belmont, Cohasset, Lincoln, Arlington, Norwell, Watertown and Winthrop. So we've worked with all of those communities very different in terms of their context, pattern, density, goals. So I mostly say that to reassure you that we're here to listen to you and adapt to what you want to do in your town center and help you understand how it relates to this law.

00:21:08,170	S5:
The second piece that's helpful to kind of as a starting point, is to understand that the state has structured this so that it is tailored to or proportional to the different sort of communities that exist within the service area of the MBTA. So what that means is that places that have higher levels of transit service, greater access to downtown Boston, have a greater proportional kind of obligation under the law. So they need to meet higher numbers. So Hamilton falls in the adjacent, sorry, the commuter commuter rail community category. And so that carries specific numbers that are related to your existing population, your existing number of housing units, your existing land area. So it's all customized to you based on kind of the state's big picture goals here.

00:22:01,799	S5:
Um, and, you know, I'm not going to dwell on this too much, but I do want to just give you a sense of, you know, what's on the line here. Um, so the state has some enforcement tools at their, um, you know, at their disposal. Um, and there's kind of two ways that they're doing that enforcement. One is kind of explicit legal enforcement, and that's related to fair housing law, anti-discrimination law. So that's kind of a legal toolset. The second sort of enforcement tool that they have is withholding funding. And so there are real consequences to this. So that's something that we, you know, we want to just help you understand. We're not here to, you know, push it forward. We're here to just make you aware of what's, um, what's kind of on the line. Okay. Um, understanding the basics of the law. There's lots of details here, but the big picture is that the state is looking for each community that's within that community's area to zone for multifamily buy, right in a portion of their community. And that's defined as three or more units on a single parcel, allowing for three or more units. It doesn't have to be that that's what's built and that it has to be as of right. Which basically means that, um, somebody can follow all the rules in the zoning and move forward through site plan review and move forward with the development. So there's not a sort of a special permit that they have to argue their way through. They have to just follow the rules, and then they're allowed to pursue what they're interested in developing. Um, there's some nuances around ground floor commercial. Um, and also, uh, there's you can't have any restrictions on the, um, basically the way that the housing gets used. In other words, who is occupying the housing, the age, the number, size of bedrooms, the number of occupants. So it has to be flexible enough to be able to meet the housing needs that exist in your community and in the kind of region around it. Um, and I'm going to come back to the ground floor commercial in just a moment. Um, so the state got a lot of feedback that where people want to do this is in their town centers, and the town centers are where you have commercial and you want to protect the commercial. Um, so the state developed this option to give you a tool to protect, um, kind of that, uh, that sort of, um, minimum kind of commercial, um, uh, protection. Um, so this is something that is an option for Hamilton and that we can make use of to protect those sort of critical commercial uses in your town center as part of this kind of 3D approach. Um, so the next piece and this is getting into the details of the numbers for Hamilton. So, you know, I mentioned before, those numbers are tailored to each community. Um, so the numbers for Hamilton are that we need to find a district that is at least 49 acres. That doesn't need to be all in one place, but it needs a total to 49 acres in order to meet the state requirements. Um, the second set of sort of guidance or requirements is around the location of that district. And this is really intended to make sure that it's fulfilling the sort of the desire for this to be transit oriented as much as possible. Um, and so there's a requirement for at least 20% of the district to be within half a mile of the commuter rail station. So again, just 20%. It doesn't have to go above that. It can go above that. But that's the minimum. And then the second piece is that essentially the majority of the district has to be contiguous. So in other words, you can't just scatter it across lots of little parcels all throughout the town. It needs to have some sort of like center of gravity. Um, so that's really to make it a coherent sort of zoning approach that can result in some of the benefits that the state is looking for around sort of transit oriented, amenity rich places for housing. Um, the last piece is density. And this is, again, to that goal of trying to encourage kind of more walkable development places that can support a greater variety of, of uses and, and lifestyles to some extent. So 15 units per acre is the the number that the state is using to measure that. And so that's kind of you have to have zoning that allows for that level of density. Um, and that's what kind of as we get further in the process, will help you to visualize what that means. I know it's a very abstract number. No one thinks in this way about housing. So we'll help you understand what that looks like. It's not as scary as it sounds. Um, the last thing is, um, the last piece is the number of units. So the zoning has to allow for at least 731 units again. Doesn't have to be all in one place, but that's the target that the state is looking for. Um. All right, so with that you have just a couple more slides here. Um, so we wanted to give you some sense of proportion. So what does 49 acres mean for Hamilton? So this kind of blue square here, um, is to scale 49 acres. Um, if you think about the entire area of Hamilton, that's what we need to kind of look at. you know, where in Hamilton might that go? And what's a good fit? Um, and then if you zoom in and you'll notice we just put it outside of Hamilton because we're not we're not talking about where it's going right now. Um, and then if we kind of zoom in and we think about that relative to the town center, this is again that 49 acres. Um, in proportion to that half mile kind of radius around your commuter rail station. So that just gives you a sense of kind of scale. Um, do you want to chime in on that?

00:27:47,000	S1:
Sure.

00:27:48,630	S4:
Yeah. So I just, I just before we close out, I just want to acknowledge that, um, you know, we've we've done a lot of three a work in other communities. It it is always controversial. It is often quite divisive. We just want to acknowledge that up front. Um, our ask is, and our charge from the town is to, uh. Okay, this this is a mandate came down from the state. Um, we need to explore what compliance actually looks like. And at a minimum, try to imagine what compliance looks like in a way that is either good for the town, or at least the least bad option that will give the residents a chance to sort of vote on this. And so, um, I, we have in other towns, I think, come up with solutions that, um, we think actually made sense from a planning standpoint. It's important to acknowledge that the, the rules of three A are a little clunky and sometimes they don't fit perfectly with, with what a town wants to do. But on the whole, we feel confident that in other towns we've gotten pretty close to something that, uh, makes sense from a planning standpoint. And so our ask is for you to keep an open mind while we at least see what that looks like.

00:29:15,269	S5:
Thanks, Matthew. So I think the last thing we have here is just to kind of get you oriented to what's next. So, um, we have here a QR code. If you point your camera at it, it'll take you to the project website. We just put that it's live as of today. Um, I promise it's not going to be anything unwanted. You know, it's just information. Um, and that's going to be your hub for information throughout the entire process. Everything that we do, it will land there. So if you miss a meeting, if you hear something and you're not sure if it's right, this is where you should go to find out. Um, the next thing to kind of do, if you arrive at the website and you want to be kept in the loop, we have an email list that you can sign up for. That way, each time we have something that is coming up, you know, a draft work product, draft recommendations, or we've launched a new engagement tool, um, we will notify you via email so you'll know right away. Um, so go ahead and do that if you're interested. And then in the next couple of weeks, we're going to be launching a visioning survey to start getting input from you all. And then we will also be firming up the dates for the visioning workshop, which is we're targeting July for that. So I know it's coming up soon. So we'll get that date settled real quickly and get it out to you so you can start planning around it. And once again, every single meeting we do that those materials will go up on the website. So don't worry if you kind of if you can't make all of the meetings, we'll still make sure we keep you on the loop and that there's ways for you to provide input. So I think we'll close there.

00:30:50,099	S2:
Um.

00:30:56,529	S2:
So I started to say at the beginning, and then I got lost track because we got some bumps and it was really unsettling. Um, I think I would like to express to everybody that there isn't anybody in town Hall and any of the elected offices that I know of. That is like a big fan. Rah rah. We need to adopt three a the way it is right now when the law came out. Communities such as ours were asked to comment on it and give feedback to the legislature. We did that. We pushed back on a number of things in three A and told them why we didn't think it would work if it was passed the way it was passed. The response back was crickets. We got nothing. They didn't. They took our commentary and didn't even respond to it. They passed the law anyway. We pushed forward. We we we asked again for the when they were adopting the regulations, we made comments. Then I signed on to a letter with a dozen or more other towns to like push for certain things in the in the regulations. Again, the state under. Then it was then Governor Baker and his Housing and Economic Development secretary. They just pressed on with what they wanted to do. We knew that this was coming. We asked the state to give us some help to try to understand it, and they provided some grant funded engineering expertise. They worked with Patrick through two iterations. By the way, the first thing that they gave back to us, we said, this is ridiculous. This doesn't do anything for the town at all. You need to you look at this again. Patrick met with them again. They went back. They came back with something slightly better. We discussed it. I think Patrick discussed it with the planning board. We realized it was not something that was going to work for the town of Hamilton. We understood that the product that was being given to us by the state funded consultants was not. It was cookie cutter. It was just here. This will meet your requirement, but it wasn't going to help us. It was probably going to hurt us. And so that was a time in the background. And I forgot to mention Rick Mitchell from the HTC is here as well. And since then Rosie Kennedy has joined us and a few other folks. So Karen Kail, our town clerk. So we've got a lot of people here in the in the room that are, are working every day on your behalf to try to help us do the right thing for the town. So in the background we were talking the Hamilton Development Corporation, but wanted to have a plan for the downtown. The Planning Board, as I said, has been talking about form based code for two years and against the backdrop of understanding that what was presented to us was horrible and wanting to have something better. I asked through the select board in the fin com in January, if we could include an article in the warrant to ask for $125,000 that we could use to hire our own consultants so that we could take control of this process so that we could decide what is the best thing for Hamilton in this unwelcome environment. And that's what this whole process is going to be about with three. We're not trying to say that we are pushing forward to pass it. We're trying to say that we want to we want to study it and understand it a lot better than what the state was giving us, so we can see if there's something there, if there are there some benefits. We we know that we have things that the Hamilton Development Corporation wants us to do in this in the downtown area, we want to make sure that our business center is vibrant and has enough people to support it. We want to make sure that the. That whatever development comes along in the future, whether it be through. Three a or something else, is consistent with what our town looks like. We want the town of Hamilton to continue to be the place that you all love and call home. So that's the purpose of the form based code. That's the purpose for this whole planning process. If we're able to get something out of it that we can present to town meeting next year, that's the way we speak to the state. That's the best way we can speak to the state. And as I said, we're already going to be on their their naughty list because we're going to miss the deadline in December. And but I don't see any way to go through a process other than that way. So, you know, please work with us, keep an open mind. Um, be honest, tell us what it is that you think. Tell us what it is that you think is acceptable. We can find ways to work that into into the plan that that will help us all, um, and take advantage of all the opportunities to reach out and participate in the process. Utilize one way. You can also contact my my office. You can contact Patrick's office. Our email addresses are on the website. You can call town hall and ask to talk to us. We want your input. That is why we're doing this. So nothing's been decided. Caroline, would you like to say anything as the chair?

00:35:21,030	S1:
Mary. Excuse me.

Yes. 00:35:23,369	S2:
And then we're gonna. Then we're gonna hand it over to Eric.

00:35:26,130	S6:
That is a light. Hey, y'all. Uh, Caroline Boyle, you, uh, chair of the Hamlet Select board? I thought this was great. Thank you, util for going through that. I was talking to two residents before this began, and I did want to clarify a couple of points that I just I know sometimes the misinformation gets disseminated very quickly. This is just a change of zoning. It does not give land to the state a development.

00:35:55,570	S1:
Excuse me. Oh, please. Look, we're we're here engaging with you. We want to hear from you, but that's not respectful. We're not. It's not to.

00:36:05,500	S1:
Tell the truth. So the truth is. The truth is the state wants us to pass on.

00:36:10,099	S6:
They want us to pass the zoning.

00:36:11,800	S1:
But there is. There's no conveyance.

00:36:13,500	S6:
When it's right, there's no. No. There's not the.

00:36:16,769	S1:
The.

00:36:17,699	S6:
The land is private. Our land belongs to either the town or to. Or it's private land. We would pass the same way we have downtown district zoning. Or we have, you know, other districts. If we pass the zoning, the land would still have to be purchased by a developer with a housing plan, which is where the form based code comes in. This is not a transfer of 49 acres to the state. It is applying. I'm not suggesting whether it is or isn't. Somebody came before the meeting and was under the assumption that we were going to transfer 49 acres of zoned land to the state. That is absolutely untrue. It is literally saying this land has by right, multifamily zoning approved on it. So developer, if you buy this land, you can put multifamily housing here by right without having to go through a special permit process. The only difference between that and the current downtown zoning that we have, which allows for multifamily, is that a developer would have to go through a special permit process, which we would control. It takes that element of control over what the developer can build there. It minimizes that. I'm not saying that's good or bad or indifferent. I'm not. I'm not saying I'm pro or con. I want to be clear that we are not transferring land to the state of Massachusetts. We couldn't if if your house falls within that zoning district that we decided to approve on, they can't come seize your house. You would have to sell your house to somebody who wanted to do this. You. Absolutely. We still live downtown. They just put they put multifamily downtown because it's zoned for it through a special permit. We live there. You have to sell your land for somebody to take it.

Yes. 00:38:06,670	S1:
How can you say you're ambivalent if the town is under control of the zoning in those 49 years, you have to take a stand. Either you're in favor of it.

00:38:16,369	S6:
I do not actually have to do that at all. What I have to do is support a process.

No. 00:38:20,670	S1:
Represent us, I am.

00:38:22,869	S6:
I'm trying right now to represent both sides.

00:38:25,269	S1:
No. Good. You're here to represent us.

00:38:27,300	S6:
There are two sides of y'all.

00:38:29,300	S1:
No, no.

00:38:30,570	S6:
The entire. We are.

00:38:33,429	S7:
Other towns have their select board, have taken a stand and said no.

00:38:37,630	S6:
And I appreciate that they have. I appreciate that they have done that. No, we have a.

00:38:42,900	S7:
Stood up for those towns and stood up for those townspeople.

00:38:45,900	S6:
And we have not approved anything. We have not even put a plan before.

00:38:51,269	S7:
Trying to sell.

00:38:51,800	S1:
It to us.

00:38:52,369	S6:
I'm not we're not trying to sell anything. I'm going to pause. I'm going to pause. This is the same Compliance I.

00:38:58,099	S1:
If you go look at the state website, Hamilton is an interim.

00:39:01,269	S6:
Because we have done nothing.

00:39:03,170	S1:
And submitted by these two gentlemen.

00:39:05,000	S6:
So what I'm asking is, is your request of the of the town government. If the state comes to me with anything, my personal opinion about that thing should allow me to tell the state to go pound sand without going through due process, to understand the perspectives of the constituents of this town. That is what you're asking me, that I have full authority to decide, at my discretion, to tell the state what I decide I don't want to comply with. I do not think that's true. My job is to go through a process that allows the town to put their feedback forward, and then the town will vote. The town will vote.

00:39:40,570	S7:
That's right.

00:39:41,769	S6:
Absolutely. And you may vote it down, but you may not say to me that my job is unequivocally to take a singular position and not allow a process by which the town gets to have a say. That is not what you mean. Because if this was an issue you agreed on and I came forward and said, I'm not going to entertain your position, I'm going to say no, you would be on the other side of this argument.

00:40:03,969	S1:
Here's the challenge. Okay. The town is in interim compliance because the town has submitted an action plan to comply with three A, and the state has approved it where interim compliance cannot deny that.

00:40:16,429	S6:
We have not passed.

00:40:17,429	S1:
Zoning.

00:40:18,099	S7:
We have not passed zoning. Compliance. No one can build anything if we do not pass zoning compliance.

00:40:25,800	S1:
It is a fact.

00:40:26,630	S2:
That is true. That is that is true. All we did, all we did with that was we. We filled out some forms, and Patrick did it with the help of the Hamilton Housing Authority and a couple, I think, a member of the planning board. And there were a couple, two, two members. Excuse me. Look, as the Select board chairman just said, there is a process to do anything right. I can't, as a town manager say we have to do this or that without going through the select board. The select board can't say we have to do this or that without going through town meeting or hearing from all of the people in the town. That's why we have the town meeting. That's why we'll have a vote on it. Interim compliance just meant that it gave ourselves time to study it, and unfortunately, we're going to wind up with less time. We're not taking, Rick. We're not doing.

Uh. 00:41:13,599	S1:
Can you talk about what the actual process is to just one vote? Um, you.

00:41:18,369	S2:
Know, so it'll be it'll be so.

00:41:20,170	S1:
So.

00:41:20,730	S2:
So the the processes I see is what's going to happen here next is that Utah is going to do their work. They're going to go out there first and foremost. They're going to develop a form based code for our town center which is something we want. They're also going to look at ways that we can try to ways to work with three A and see if there's something in there in the discussions with you all, with the public visioning sessions, with the surveys. See if there are ways in there that we can find something that we think would actually be helpful to us, or minimally disruptive that we could present to town meeting through the planning board process. When utils got their draft work done, they will present it to the Planning Board. The Planning Board and Util will take it through the process with more public hearings, more public input.

00:42:02,570	S1:
Planning board has to approve it or does not.

00:42:06,769	S2:
Not required to approve it. What? What normally happens in the town of Hamilton is that zoning goes through the planning board. State law does allow the select board to take through to town meeting. This town. This town, as far as I know, certainly not in the five years I've been here. Zoning hasn't been presented by the planning board, by the Select Board. It's been only presented by the Planning Board. Our goal is to do the same thing here. Follow our normal process in town. Follow the process through the planning board. See what comes out of it. Get it to town meeting floor for a vote. If it fails the town meeting floor, it fails at 24. The thing that you have to understand is that the that that vote, that decision will come with some consequence. And the responsible thing is to make sure that as many people as possible know about what the potential consequences are before we make that vote. That's that's why we want to follow this process. We want to have the process. That's not persuasion. We're not trying to talk you into anything.

00:42:57,469	S1:
It's the process.

00:42:58,670	S7:
It's the process that we showed you. You feel putting.

00:43:01,070	S6:
Together a comprehensive.

00:43:02,099	S7:
Plan.

00:43:02,829	S6:
That decides.

00:43:03,400	S7:
What the.

00:43:03,670	S6:
For base coat is, where we.

00:43:05,199	S7:
Would want the designated 49 acres to be, how they may look for base code. We present that to the town at town meeting one vote. It would probably be a four base code or an article.

00:43:16,070	S2:
That's the way zoning is usually approved. Zoning usually goes through the planning board to the town meeting as voted in one meeting. No, that's what that's what we're going to do. Yeah. One vote in town meeting.

00:43:24,469	S7:
It'll go to town meeting. And at that town meeting vote, people can say, we reject the plan, in which case we turn around to the state and say Hamilton rejects three a we found a plan that we thought everyone would like. They don't they don't like it. We reject it.

00:43:40,369	S2:
So yeah, actually, you know, interestingly, yes. So the Milton town has a charter that allows for the voters through a citizen's citizens petition to establish a ballot question, to reconsider something that they don't like that the town meeting did. You don't have that here. You'd have to defeat it at town meeting. But town meeting in Milton approved the three a zoning that was that was developed. The voters who didn't like it got a citizens petition to question it together, put it on, got it on a ballot, and convinced enough voters in the town to reject it. And that's why the town got sued by the state. Now, now, that case is going to be heard by the Supreme Judicial Court in October. So we're going to know a lot more about that process and what the state's and what the court's opinion is at that time. Um, interim compliance doesn't mean that we're doing anything beyond agreeing that we're going to look at this law and try to put something in front of town, meaning that's all we really did.

00:44:32,170	S1:
Once we submit the action plan, E.O., HLC monitors your progress. Comments. Yeah. Is it possible to get a copy of the action plan?

00:44:41,469	S2:
Yeah, probably.

00:44:42,429	S8:
Do you have.

Yeah. 00:44:44,199	S2:
Is it on the website? We can get it on the website.

00:44:47,400	S1:
Yeah. Can I come on?

00:44:49,699	S2:
We have.

00:44:50,730	S8:
You. Let's grab that.

00:44:52,599	S2:
Can we let. Can we let Eric speak? Or do you want to just go on this for right now?

00:44:56,869	S7:
Thank you.

00:44:58,869	S8:
Okay. Can you please.

Yeah. 00:45:04,400	S8:
Yeah. Stephen McWhorter, 18 Cunningham Drive. I have a question about the presentation I just saw. If you look at it, more than 50% of that circle is in one of them. So they're overly penalizing a very small town with a formula. That's unfair. That doesn't make any sense. What's when I'm doing on that other side of that circle. Why why is the 50 acres on the wrong side of the line?

00:45:32,130	S2:
So there's a there's a similar a half mile radius circle on one side of the line. They have their own requirements to try to meet there, according to what we heard from their planner today. They're planning to move forward for a special town meeting vote in this fall. We have been trying to engage them to find out what their plan actually entails. We've heard some rumors, but we haven't really been briefed on it. We haven't been able to get the two planning boards to talk yet. I'm hoping that we're able to get that to happen soon.

00:46:00,099	S1:
The fight that started. It's not a knockdown.

00:46:03,530	S2:
We only have to. We only have to. We only have to do in our town. So.

Right. 00:46:10,269	S1:
But you put in the whole point.

00:46:11,570	S2:
I'm so, so so so so so so there's another example of like some information that's out there that's not completely accurate. We haven't we haven't proposed it. No, no. The the 49 acre blue square was not in was not on our side of the map at all. It was just to show you by scale what 49 acres would look like, and to show you that it could fit in our side of the circle. But we're not actually looking at that. We've asked them to look at several other pieces of property around town that may be able to take some of that burden, as the presentation showed. Only 20% of that area of that 49 acres has to be in the downtown near the commuter rail station. It may be likely that more than 20% of that would be downtown, but I don't really envision us going forward with only one multifamily district in all of it being downtown. I think that's ridiculous. I think that it'd be I think it would be ridiculous for us to assume that we would even be able to put 731 units in a half mile radius around the the train station, so we're not trying to do that at all. Again, that we've said from the beginning, a lot of people are out there saying that it's going to mean this, that or the other thing. The fact is, we don't know what it's going to mean yet because we haven't even started to study it. That's what we're doing now. Well, I mean, you and I can have beers over what the state doesn't know. That's. I mean, I.

00:47:28,570	S1:
Said, you're going to congregate.

00:47:31,329	S6:
Well, Wynnum has their own.

00:47:32,630	S7:
Set of.

00:47:34,070	S6:
Wyndham, have their own set of requirements and units and space and.

00:47:37,369	S7:
All of that.

00:47:38,030	S6:
That's separate from.

00:47:38,730	S7:
Us.

00:47:40,730	S6:
That's they have like 300. I don't know what theirs are. Yeah. So that's separate.

00:47:45,570	S7:
So I don't know how this works, but.

00:47:47,170	S1:
Maybe I don't need that. I gotta make.

00:47:48,969	S7:
Money.

Okay. 00:47:50,300	S1:
Um, my name is Salvador Celeste. I'm from 20 Puritan Road in Wenham, and I'd like to enlighten you guys as to what happened at the wedding when I'm up. Yes. A couple of disturbing things. First off, the, um, the way they tried to sell it was verbatim exactly what you said. They said this is a zoning exercise, and all we want to do is comply by making this zoning area with three family multi multifamily units, affordable housing. But we're not going to do anything. When I give up any land. We're just going to let it happen. Now that was I found that a little bit disturbing because it was almost verbatim, which I found strange. The next part is. Hold on.

Yeah. 00:48:41,630	S2:
So with all due respect. With all due respect, this isn't me. Excuse me? This is a this is a meeting for Hamilton residents.

00:48:49,170	S1:
I know what's going on because I'm very concerned. What's going on here? Part of it is very disingenuous. And what it is, they're showing you a circle, but what they're omitting is one third of the impact of what's going to happen here, that blue line, that much of this train station. It's imaginary. That circle is going to have a thousand units in it. All right. Yeah. No, let let me speak. I know a lot of developers in there salivating to come through that open door. Trust me on this.

00:49:21,269	S9:
All right.

00:49:25,570	S1:
This is the important part. When we have very limited resources. And unless Hamilton has a hidden pipeline to the reservoir. Okay. And I don't know about. You're not going to not only be sprinkling in the laundry if you take a shower once a week, right? Okay. Because there is no way that we have the infrastructure. The second part is when they say that it's going to happen in this this area that's a congested area, okay. And it's going to represent almost one third of the population of what we got right now. Mhm. We can't support that. It's affordable housing that they showed us all these nice houses. They did that exactly in one of them as well. And you go wow these beautiful. Yes. Well when you have those types of housing units which are affordable housing, what happens in I was born in Heber and I watched this happen. Here's how it happened. They came in and the first thing they said is you want to consolidate the school. Great. And they said, well, what are you gonna do with the property? And they said, oh, we make parks. We're going to make all kinds of public units. No, what happened was after they put in the affordable housing And they did the consolidation of the school system, which turned out to be bad because rather than have small classes in separate units, they had large classes. And then when ultimately ended up happening, was the old school know all the alternatives? Wait, wait wait. Let's try the Stieglitz thing. The Kennedy, the singlets, the Kennedy and the, um. The Higgins High School used to be a memorial high school. Yeah. What did they do with them? They turned them into affordable housing. That's what they did. All of those nice buildings, they could. They had eight buildings at first, and then people couldn't afford the education. So then they had to call them the state. And then if you drive through me, they'd go look at all those beautiful moments. After four years, they deteriorated. And what started as an absolute circus, the they're being disingenuous. The reason why they're not showing you the impact. Now I ask.

00:51:40,869	S6:
The point of the process is to show impact. I cannot have you come to a Hamilton meeting and single handedly you have gone through the school. I understand that, but nothing has happened yet.

00:51:53,969	S2:
You're telling us what happened in Peabody?

00:51:55,670	S6:
I would, I respect that. I respect the position.

00:52:00,070	S1:
Showing you the analysis.

00:52:01,070	S6:
By a show of hands who has come here because you are anti IEA and would like us to be totalitarian anti IEA. I understand and respect that position. I acknowledge because we have not started the process. That's why our consultants are here to kick it off. Why we said.

00:52:20,000	S1:
What.

00:52:21,570	S7:
Okay.

00:52:22,199	S2:
All right. So what. With due respect you've had a lot of time to talk. I have a lot of Hamilton residents that I think would like to talk.

00:52:27,769	S9:
Please let me know if I stay here and I. The advisory committee and the advisory committee and how that relates to the project. Would you describe them and how so?

00:52:42,869	S2:
Yes, I will. I will tell you right now.

00:52:44,500	S9:
All right. Selection process for who's on that.

00:52:46,900	S2:
I was anticipating question. I can I can answer that.

00:52:52,070	S2:
I you know, I'm uncomfortable saying this stuff because I don't like to say, hey, I'm the time manager, I do this, I do that. The fact of the matter is we have time manager act. That established my position, and it gives the town manager the authority to hire consultants and sign contracts and do all these other things. The consultants in their in the procurement process, they propose a stakeholder engagement. In talking with the folks, we decided that we thought we wanted it to be a little bit more robust in that we wanted to identify as much as possible a broad area of people that could represent just different viewpoints, different perspectives. You know, keep bearing in mind that we've had a lot of correspondence, emails, people at public commentary meetings submitting their their thoughts about it and understanding that we wanted to have somebody representing the business community, somebody representing various boards and committees that are going to have to analyze all this stuff. I asked a member of the Hamilton Development Corp., a member of the planning board who is knowledgeable about three about multifamily zoning, uh, form based code, rather as well as two staff members to help me, like, I don't make any decision in a vacuum. So. And I don't know everybody in the towns. I tell them, give me some names of people who could represent the business community. Give me some names of people who have been around for a while. Work with the community house or work with the HDC. Give me some names of people who would be open to this. And by the way, we have this list of 15 or 16 people that have been emailing us. Let's pick a couple of those people that we think would help inform that other side of things. Ultimately, once I signed the contract with UTM, I was responsible for providing them with the name of whether you want to call it stakeholders or focus groups. We chose the name Advisory Committee. In retrospect, maybe that was a poor name. It is, as they said, a group of people that can can provide some consistent feedback throughout the process. Where are we getting things wrong? Where are we getting things right? What do you like? What don't you like? It's not a committee that's going to have any votes. It's not a committee that's going to control the process. They're informing the consultant so they don't go too far afield in one direction or another. And ultimately they were pointed by me, but I saw it input from multiple other people so that nobody could say that the town manager handpicked who we wanted.

00:54:55,769	S9:
Okay. And so but are there are people on the advisory committee, uh, that are, uh, who vehemently.

00:55:06,070	S2:
Yes.

00:55:06,500	S9:
Oh, yes. Vehemently believe that this is an outreach policy.

00:55:11,699	S6:
Yes, yes. Sarah Lavender is on the advisory committee.

00:55:15,099	S2:
Tom Connors.

00:55:15,730	S6:
Tom Connors.

00:55:16,570	S2:
On the advisory.

00:55:17,300	S6:
Both like on the also on the lawsuit for this, the lawsuit against the state. They're on the committee a Butters it's a very balanced.

00:55:26,400	S2:
And we didn't appoint anybody we invited. They said that they could handle a group of between 12 and 15 people. So we invited 15 people. 13 of them said yes. That's where we're at with us.

00:55:39,130	S9:
Is that when we sit, when we're saying, well, we are on an interim status with the state. All that means is that you've shown them a this particular schedule.

00:55:50,730	S2:
Yeah. Process. We're moving through trying to do this. Right. Right. And and as it was pointed out, they'll be checking in to see how we're making. And along around about October, November, December, they're going to start getting angry with.

00:56:01,000	S9:
Us.

00:56:01,869	S2:
Because we're not going to make that December December deadline. So. So, um. Yeah, sure. Deb Safford is on the advisory committee.

00:56:12,570	S6:
That's there.

Yeah. 00:56:13,500	S7:
Here. I think it's on. But if there's one.

00:56:16,570	S10:
Do I have to stand back there?

00:56:17,929	S9:
No.

00:56:18,269	S7:
So it's just making noise.

00:56:21,699	S10:
I don't know who. Um, so I think one of the issues that we're dealing with and why there's a lot of sort of tension in the room is because we're being asked to do a zoning situation, that the state is dictating the parameters, which we wouldn't do normally. And so there's a lot of resistance. So I think when we say the state's going to own it, it's because the state's telling us how to zone for it. And therefore and their guidelines keep changing. And, you know, to be in compliance like that's a temporary thing. And so I think that that's a reason for some of the concern about it just to understand it. So yeah, we're not transferring ownership. But we do know the developers would like it and that they can pay cash for a lot of people's houses. And it would be developed if it's going to be zoned for that, it might be there. I just wanted to clarify that. Um, and there's a sense of, I guess, being pushed to do it. And I think that's, you know, the energy in the room for those who are concerned is because, you know, the state's dictating how the rural, suburban, rural community. No, not urban development, but suburban. Rural is what we are. And so we just really have to make sure that we have that represented in the plan. So for util I have a question. Um, I understand you're going to be doing form based code, and there was a conference, I think you had just said that there's going to be something that's going to be voting on that says this is how the three A would work in this within this form based code, vote yes or no. So my question is, can you guys do and will you be doing a form based code that is independent of three A so that there would be there would be something that's like form based code and then something that would be compliant with three A so that we don't have the convolution of them.

00:58:13,369	S2:
And honestly, I think we're still trying to work that out. We've had some of these conversations about that because I, I really want to make sure the town has a form based code that we can say.

00:58:20,469	S10:
I think I mentioned that at the first meeting, I asked if that.

00:58:24,000	S2:
Could be worked through what that looks like, but.

00:58:25,570	S10:
I think that's really important. I think from the integrity of the community. I think if we can pull out three a from what util does and if we can pull out, I'm so sorry I'm hitting you if we can pull out Winthrop as well. These are super charged, um, topics, both of which have to be voted, and I think it would be a waste of our resources if all the consultants work on is A3A integrated form based plan, including Winthrop. I think these things have to be in separate buckets. And I think Jonathan poor I don't know if he's here, but he's the one who brought that up originally about doing three buckets. And I would hope that the work that you do as a deliverable would, would include sort of separating those out. I also think it would be helpful if we could get information from the consultants about the amount of services that have to be increased for the population that would be coming in should they be built. So looking at water, looking at public services, looking at education, we're building a building or we're not building a building, I think that those have got to be paramedic. Can't just be the structure. I think to really be a valuable deliverable, it has to be a full picture. Like we can't just make these decisions in a vacuum. We've already talked about the water. We've talked about a lot of different things. And I really hope that we can address the actual consequence of having these things developed, because they will be developed. If you build it, they will come, and if you zone it, they will build it. The other thing that I would love to know, that no one seems to be able to answer us, is on commercial space. There's a lot of people that say, we've got to have, you know, increase in commercial because then it's going to help our taxes. But, you know, commercial brings a lot of cost with it. And I would love it if within this plan, since we're looking at mixed use of multifamily and commercial, if there's a sense of actually if you do this and add this much commercial, what's the real consequence to our tax dollar? Like how much, how much square footage commercial do we have to add to be able to.

01:00:19,469	S2:
A lot more than you want to add.

01:00:20,599	S10:
I know it's like a million, which is like a hundred CVS. And so I think so, I think, but can I just I just I'm sorry. I just want to finish that because, because there's, there's just a lot of marketing that goes into this. Right. There's the um, let's project that, um, we're going to consolidate this select board did their vote on March 18th, and they said, you know, let's renew the lease to Cutler for 30 years so that we can project our support behind that consolidation, because we want to show our support about commercializing Winthrop. That's almost a quote from someone. And so I think that that's really important, that how much of Winthrop would have to be renovated into commercial space to actually have an impact. So there's this misnomer that if we add some businesses, it's really going to help us. And I don't think that that's the case. So just some really good points. I think I, you know, be great to work with you on these things, but these are the deliverables that we have to have to make it factual, not emotional. and that people have the information to really make a constructive decision instead of an emotional 1 or 1 based on lies from what the state thinks they're going to do or not do. The other last thing was how much money would we be foregoing if we didn't do three? I think that's an important number to how much grant money we actually getting. Would we? Is it 28,000? Which I've heard because now they're adding more. So just a few thoughts to try and clarify what the deliverable is to make it useful. Thank you.

01:01:52,699	S2:
So so we're not we're not going to be able to answer all those questions right now. But we but it's valuable to have them. We're recording this. We'll be able to provide those answers over the over the course time. There was another part of this because we've a couple of folks have referenced it with the school site and I, we wanted to at least have Eric talk to you a little bit about their process and what they've done. It's 8:00 now. We've got about a half hour to an hour left. I think we're going to lose our school, our superintendent, our school school committee chair here because she has another engagement that she's not going to be here much longer. If you allow me to let Eric speak briefly, I know that Rick, who's been a part of the HTC and helping us get the consultants on board, would like to speak to. So let me give it over to Eric.

Yeah. 01:02:38,929	S9:
If anyone does not believe how far along in the process this is in the state, I urge you to go tonight on a PC or website search. Hamilton. You can search your own house, you can search your neighbor's house. You can search every property in that little circle. Click on it. It will show you what it shows. Every developer that's looking at Massachusetts, how many units they can put, where your house is, how many units that can go on your neighbor's house. This is what's coming. They already have it all planned. And I'm not saying they mean the town. I mean they the state and the developers. I can look at my house. I can look up every house and every person in this room. It is frightening. Mapes. Thank you.

01:03:31,969	S11:
Thank you.

01:03:38,900	S12:
Thank you. Joe asked me to come and just give you an overview of the the process that we've gone through since, uh oh, gosh. Goes back many years with the submissions of what they call sois or statements of interest on our elementary schools. Mostly, we have also submitted statements of interest on things like our high school roof to try and get state support. Uh, we were accepted in 2022 for the Cutler, uh, school project. We had submitted SOS for all three elementary schools. Uh, state came in and looked at all three elementary schools and said we would support, you know, something to do with Cutler or something to do with Cutler and Winthrop. But we want to leave. We would stay out of the the bunker process, if you will. So they came back to us and said that they would invite us into the program. They gave us four options to work with, something as basic as just renovating the the Cutler School, or building just a new Cutler School to something of combining some grades, like three through five, with a larger number of students to a little bigger through a K to five with just Winthrop, and then a district wide reconfiguration of one through five, which would give put all all of our first, second, third and fourth, fifth graders in the same building. That process went to town meeting in 2023 for the feasibility process, which is the third stage of the eligibility process for MSBA. The initial one is kind of the invitation, and then you go through this jumping of hoops to decide, you know, what things that the state would like to have in line. And then they invite you into feasibility. We're invited into feasibility, um, which required a vote at town meeting for funding to be able to fund that process, which is, um, engaging an OPM and an architect, which is an OPM as an owners project manager. And it really gives us the opportunity to to look at what all the options were. Uh, those two agencies both asked both towns, Hamilton and Wenham, what types of properties they had available that might be useful that would fit, uh, a school in general. I think it was like a seven acre minimum. Uh, the towns gave us, um, a list of all the properties that were available on both sides. It was over 20 something properties. Um, they went through and vetted each property for build ability or fit, if you will, for an average sized elementary school. And then they they looked at things like wetlands. They looked at things like access. Some of the some of the properties were landlocked. So they weren't able to be used. Some many of them, quite a few of them actually were, um, wetlands, lots of wetlands. Which is why they're available. One of them was a cemetery. And the the topographical issues came up with with a couple of the other sites, mostly hilly and non buildable area that was combined with wetlands. So that process brought us through winding down from all these different possibilities into, okay, what's really usable and useful. And they really came down to the two sites of the Color and Winthrop schools to be able to use those sites, um, without wetlands, without those, those issues, because they're already schools on those sites. Um, and it made sense for the for what we had available after that process. They, they, the architects and the OPM build out, um, opportunities of each of the models across the two sites. So, you know, the the state requires you to, to look at and vet multiple models, like the model of just a renovation, just what they call a code upgrade, bringing it up to scale, uh, which would have been extensive in the Cutler school a a renovation and add rental, which they call an addition renovation or new build or consolidation. So those were really kind of what, what the state asked us to look at. Going through that process, we looked at a number of options and availabilities for kids and across, you know, what we had available now. Um, in in also the site availability, the process of school building committee was almost a year long and, you know, just almost exactly a year long. And they worked down through these all these different models. They were, I think 14 originally and came down to 4 or 5 and then down to the, the conclusion of, um, the consolidation of Cutler and Winthrop, but also allowing the redistricting of all of the first, second, third and fourth grade, uh, first through fifth graders in the district. And that was kind of debating where that would go, what that would cost. Um, each of the sites had different, different prices. They, you know, prices ranged from, I think, as low as $80 million all the way up to over $160 million, depending on the site and location. So the the building committee made a choice to support the consolidation option, which they called C 3.4, and that basically combined Cutler and Winthrop, but allowed the first through fifth grade across the entire district to go into one place and then give us the opportunity to still use the Bücker as a kind of a pre-K K. We have we have three pre-K classrooms and seven kindergarten classrooms that would actually fit in that building fairly nicely. So the that that kind of played itself out through the process as it.

01:08:55,729	S9:
Has been building.

01:08:56,529	S12:
Yeah. I'll tell you one second. Yeah. I'm just going to walk through this. The uh, so from that point we got to the end of the, the line with the school building committee of the school, uh, committee took over from there, and they reviewed the school building committee recommendation to the committee. They went through a process. They actually put a pause on the process for a couple of months so that they could do a survey. The community more deeply brought in a professional survey company, did a survey across the district which was presented last meeting, which was June 6th. Uh, survey was presented, basically showed that nothing would be supported across across the communities. Um, they in turn voted. They had to make a vote, yes or no. They voted to support the School Building Committee's recommendation of option C, 3.4, which was the consolidation model of the two schools. Uh, roughly at a cost of $150 million. And then, uh, from that point, it goes back to the state, and the state determines kind of the next steps. And we go into what they call module four, which is, uh, schematic design. Schematic design allows us to kind of take a deeper look at what happens inside that space? What types of rooms you need? Types of programs you need to support the needs of your kids in the. In the current programs. Special ed programs. Programs related to 504. Any types of specials like music and art and Stem and all of those pieces. They all come kind of now into the puzzle and get built into this process that will take us into the fall. In the fall, the process kind of brings the state and school department together to kind of mesh through, of all of the things that are in what they call the building plan, like the what, what's reimbursable, what's not. The idea is to really hone in on the reimbursable. We're currently looking at about a 47.6% reimbursement rate on the project from the state. That could change. It could go up generally not down, but it can go up and, um, it can go up, uh, if you add in. Just want to finish my thought. You can go up if you add in things like Leed certified certification, things like solar and energy efficiencies, geothermal, things like that, it can go down as well. You are correct. Thank you. Um, based on what they determine is reimbursable or not. And that's kind of the the next process, the schematic design process in the fall. Then we finalize two things. We get a fairly accurate price of the project. And then we get a, a very accurate reimbursement from the state. So we'll have the actual number then in the fall that continues on into the spring goes to the back to the school committee to vote to, uh, request funds that the funds get requested. And then town meeting in 2025. Is the scheduled vote to support or not support that project? So that's kind of the short version of what we've done since 2022. Jeff, you've listened to it several times, but.

01:11:56,300	S1:
Whereas the schools are within that district, what did they suggest, what the repurpose of the buildings would be if you did didn't consolidate.

01:12:05,130	S12:
The the architects.

01:12:06,369	S1:
Know the, the, the, the school buildings after the consolidation that would ultimately be abandoned.

01:12:13,430	S12:
No one suggested anything.

01:12:15,770	S1:
That's where the problem.

01:12:16,869	S12:
Yeah. The the right the state wouldn't. The state wouldn't tell you to do anything with the the building that's not being used. But the the town owns the way our the way our.

01:12:28,829	S7:
Yeah. Why was talking about.

01:12:30,770	S12:
Yeah that's why they were talking. Yeah. That's why they were talking about it happened.

01:12:34,100	S1:
Well and then they ended up being affordable housing.

Yeah. 01:12:36,930	S12:
And now so the, the, the I guess they are in the zone. Uh, the state doesn't the state MSBA doesn't say you got to do this this in the with the building. They just basically say it goes back to the owner. The current owner of the two properties and buildings are the is the town of Hamilton County. Hamilton owns the Cutler site. Cutler building when a Winthrop site, Winthrop Building and then the town of Wenham owns the Bücker site and the Booker building. We just leased them all through the regional agreement. The regional agreement requires us to keep a building in each of the one, at least one building in each community. Hamilton has many more of the buildings in their community, and one of them has just the Booker School, which is why I think they stayed away from that. Booker school is a consolidated option because of the regional agreement stating you got to have a school in each community. So. But yes, you are correct. Go ahead. Yep.

Hi. 01:13:31,569	S9:
Hi, Joyce. I'm a grandmother and I've only lived here for 11 years, so I don't know if that says I get to say something.

01:13:39,729	S1:
But I hope you live here now.

01:13:40,970	S12:
Absolutely.

01:13:41,899	S1:
You can say something.

01:13:45,000	S9:
And I.

01:13:45,699	S7:
Have.

01:13:45,970	S9:
Seen what large classrooms can do to kids. Mhm. And the idea of pushing all of these young children. I taught young children are pushing them all into this enormous building. Mhm. Mhm mhm. Is going to be so harmful to them. Mhm. I can't imagine the teachers will be thrilled at all this huge. And if we're talking about building all kinds of homes for people to come into the city, not only is our water going to reach us, but you're now dealing with probably double the number of children. Mhm. So how long is that building going to be able to handle that.

01:14:23,670	S12:
Yeah it's a great great question. Yeah. Great question. That's a great question. Go ahead.

Yeah. 01:14:35,899	S9:
My heart breaks for the kids of this town. Yes. We moved here because of how precious the center of town was. I don't know why we need to change it. It's beautiful. It's wonderful. I have no trouble walking around town. I love the fact that this community is the way it is. Mhm. The taxes continue to go up and we haven't even addressed the water problem. So now we're going to add on top of the raises and taxes we've had in the past couple of years. We're going to add this $150 million building rather than upgrade, and maybe add some rooms onto the other three, plus the turf field and the turf field. Then they reminded me the turf field, which has been proven to be toxic, more dangerous, cause more injuries. And yet we're going to push forward with that which is not good for our kids.

01:15:31,630	S12:
Let me answer the question you had related to the classroom. The the classroom sizes don't change. The state has a maximum classroom size, which is the same as ours. It's 22, roughly. The kindergarten is a little bit smaller, so they're not all.

01:15:50,170	S12:
It has the same number of. It would it would match the classrooms we currently have for for those kids it know it.

01:15:57,229	S9:
Actually, you won't have to worry about the numbers of kids increasing, because this tax increase is going to push us and many other people out of this town, and we're not going to be able to financially handle it.

01:16:11,329	S1:
Not to mention that a good portion of the value of my home is associated with good schools together. That's absolutely.

01:16:17,029	S2:
It. You're all right about that. And that is exactly why all that will get voted on again is the town meeting vote. There's also specifically for the school. There's going to be a ballot question vote because it would require a debt exclusion. And that can't be done without all of the people in this room that are registered voters and all the people at home who are registered voters voting. So you ultimately make the decision whether that gets done. The thing is, we in order for you to vote, we have to put something in front of you to vote on.

01:16:40,729	S9:
I understand I just had one more comment that I have been told by a very reputable source that if we don't go along with the governor and her wishes that we're going to lose, like, I don't know, a little bit less than $50,000 now, she might get mad and say, all right, I'm not going to give you this or that. But you know what? I would choose independence from that nonsense.

01:17:02,529	S1:
Yeah.

01:17:05,430	S13:
Um.

01:17:07,970	S13:
About 45.

01:17:08,829	S2:
Minutes left. Um, Rick, do you feel you need to say something, or can we let you keep taking.

01:17:14,829	S7:
Down.

01:17:15,229	S9:
What happened with the folks? I remember with the middle school, there was a vote in the vote. The vote? The vote. Yeah. So can you explain what the process would be? Should it get turned down?

01:17:23,229	S12:
Sure. If it goes to the town meeting. And remember, it has to have four votes. Both Hamilton and one of them have two votes. The vote at town meeting and then the ballot vote. Town meetings. Two thirds vote. Valid votes. The majority in both communities. So you need all four of those if it doesn't pass. Look to our neighbors in Ipswich. Um, they basically say if you read the website, we've gone back and forth with the state, um, that they would basically make you re-enter the soy project process from the beginning. And that's where currently. Where Ipswich is in their process.

01:17:57,930	S9:
And that won't be revoked after rebuild.

01:17:59,729	S1:
Like.

01:17:59,930	S2:
No no no. So we went. So I live in Swampscott. Um, about 12 years ago, 13 years ago, I had my oldest son was just getting ready to enter the school district, and he's now going to be a senior. So about 12 or 13 years ago, we had a school project that was put before the voters town meeting said no. The voters said no. It took us seven years to get back into line and basically wound up approving the same project, just on a different site. And now that school is going to open in the fall, it's the so but it would take you at least seven years out of the towns have been longer. I really don't know why Swampscott locked out was able to get back in line in seven years, but it's usually closer to ten years. Swampscott was able to get back in line, maybe because both of the buildings that they wanted to replace were over 100 years old. Maybe that that inched us up a little bit on the priority of this. Um, and they're just finally going to going to finally open that school in the fall. So even though 12, 13 years ago I voted for the project, I was outvoted by a whole bunch of my neighbors and friends, and that's fine. That's the process. And I voted for the most recent project, too. My kids are never going to benefit from that, but they're wanted to doing the same, same thing. Um, let's.

01:19:15,899	S1:
Uh.

Jeff. 01:19:16,670	S14:
Yeah. This is for Eric and, uh, the chair of the school board. So, Eric, you were a key in the, uh, school building committee, and you did recommend, uh, see, 3.4, and I think mainly because it was a cost benefit to that. Right? It was a it was better return on per student. I think it's what came down to, um, but then when we had the vote on the sixth in the face of the survey, uh, that had that one that was chosen as to be the most opposition from your own survey. And then there was a third option that was closer to being accepted. It was it was like 41 to 38 or something like that. Um, I'd like to hear. To speak to why they went with something against the survey's recommendations, as well as their own. Board member. Trent gave a really compelling, uh, uh, concern and employment and imploring you guys to say, let's consider something that has a better option of passing. But we chose not to. So I'd like to know two things. One is, I know you weren't a voting member, but would you have chosen to say, you know what, let's go towards this because this has a better chance of passing. And then I'd like to know from the chair why they went with something that didn't seem to be like, it's going to pass.

01:20:23,800	S1:
Right?

01:20:25,600	S12:
The 3.4 was was the option that that I actually picked. I'm on the school building committee. So that's that's the answer to that one. Um, that was really what's best for the most kids. Every kid in our district would go from Buca through, uh, brand new school. Good for our staff. Good for a lot of things, including, um, you know, having good places for our kids to be safe in school and to be, um, to have access to the things that they need. Dana, do you want to?

01:20:54,630	S15:
Um, so, um, I want to say a couple of things because you asked one. When you ask something why I, as a school committee member, I can tell you why I voted. Um, I can't get in the heads of everyone else and tell you exactly why they voted the way they voted. The committee did vote to put forward the consolidated option. Um, what I will say is this, that and Eric alluded this right off the bat, that there was a survey done, and it was pretty clear that we have an uphill battle to build any school.

01:21:39,229	S1:
There's one that's pretty close.

01:21:40,199	S15:
Though, that we have an uphill battle to be clear that at town meeting it needs to be a two thirds vote. It is an uphill battle. No matter what. And so this is the part where I'm going to. That was from the poll. This is what I'm going to tell you about how I voted. I respect that there are differing opinions about how and what is the best option for a school.

And. 01:22:15,470	S15:
For a variety of reasons. I believe this is the best option for our students. It has the capacity. The other options did not have extend extended capacity. This one does. Um, if at some point in the future, um, the town has additional students, this option has um, as required by the MSBA, has As plans for contingency plans to increase capacity. If at some point that were needed, that's a requirement. Um, so this option provides what I feel is the best option. It's a safe school. It's a school that is going to be equitable because all of our students are going to get to go there.

01:23:10,670	S1:
Yeah.

01:23:13,770	S15:
Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. I want to just speak. Oh. Hold on. What I said was a factual statement in that if you build a school that every student goes from grades four through, I mean, one through five. That is equitable. If you were to build one school, I don't understand why you're not, why you're all shaking your head. Because that is just a statement.

01:23:38,770	S1:
That's a controversial at all.

01:23:40,930	S9:
They don't know what actual.

01:23:42,600	S1:
Is is a social.

media. 01:23:45,029	S15:
Okay. What I'm. What I'm trying to say to you is that if we were that, if we are building a new school, if we are building. And you know what? Excuse me. I am here not to have you all yell at each other. So if you don't want me to answer the question, I will sit down.

01:24:08,630	S1:
While.

01:24:08,930	S9:
You sit down.

01:24:09,930	S1:
Please.

01:24:10,729	S9:
I want you to answer.

01:24:12,729	S15:
You know what? I actually heard people just say they'd prefer me not to answer the question.

01:24:18,630	S1:
The question?

01:24:19,130	S9:
When I hear what you have.

01:24:20,029	S1:
This place would be good.

01:24:21,899	S15:
Okay. In my view, the one of the benefits of a new consolidated school is that every Hamilton Wenham student gets to benefit from a beautiful, safe, accessible School, and that is what I think is best for the students of our district.

01:24:51,470	S1:
Can I ask you a question? Just a simple.

01:24:53,170	S15:
One. I'm going to I'm going to take a couple of questions, and then I'm going to look at Joe. And I don't know what you have other things to do I know. Yes, sir.

01:25:01,229	S1:
The question I have is that the will of the people was made very, very clear. And as government representatives representing us as part of this Republic of the School Committee, to use somebody's expression tonight like that was great. Basically the school committee said Gopal and said, we don't care what the town wants. We don't care what the people want. And there was a whole series of investigations that were put forward, um, comparing school based small schools and the educational benefit versus a mega school. We don't want to make school.

01:25:38,170	S9:
We don't.

01:25:38,399	S1:
Know. And I think the town has made it very, very obvious in the school committee, looked at all the people in that room and said, go. Paul said, right, that's what they called us and that's wrong. So it's like a Winthrop school.

01:25:51,029	S15:
So.

01:25:51,729	S1:
So they.

01:25:53,199	S9:
Have.

01:25:53,970	S1:
With three.

01:25:54,529	S15:
And so I, so I.

01:25:56,970	S1:
So I would you want to eliminate that school and open up a parcel for compliance with a bad law.

Right. 01:26:04,199	S15:
So, so.

01:26:11,029	S1:
For me. Yeah. For this forum tonight. It's it's very informative. It's well presented. It's well done. And there is definitely a benefit to the communication that's been really lacking. So thank you for that.

01:26:24,130	S13:
I appreciate you're thanking me.

01:26:25,529	S2:
And we're going to try to. As I said at the beginning I'm going to try and do more of this this kind of outreach. I think it's needed. But I just want to get to a couple of things that you referenced there. The Town of Hamilton Selectboard in 2015. The lease for the Winthrop School site was up in 2015. The Select Board at that time chose very, very specifically on purpose to renew the lease for ten years for two reasons. They the. From what I've been told, because I wasn't here, I didn't get here till the end of 2018. But from what I've been told that my understanding was they wanted to align it with the lease at the Cutler School site, and they wanted the school department leadership to start looking at their facilities and what their needs were going to be going forward, because we knew already at that time, or they knew already at that time that those buildings were going to need to do something. And without some kind of impetus, some reason to start doing something that was likely not going to happen. So they only gave them a ten year lease. They also did say at the time that if we want to grow our downtown at all the Winthrop School sites, the only site we could do it at, so we want they were that select board said at the time, we want to try to get that site back so that we can try to grow the downtown a little, but we want the school district and the regional school district is a separate entity from the town. They wanted the school department to make a decision about what they needed for buildings, and that's when the school department started applying to the state with a statement of interest, trying to get into the into the list for the MBA MSBA. Now I will I will also say that is completely coincidental to the fact that seven years later, the state passed a law. You can laugh.

01:28:06,329	S13:
You.

01:28:07,029	S2:
Respectfully, you can laugh. But the fact of the matter is, the select board in 2015 had no idea that the state was going to pass the three a zoning one. That was not that was not known. I none of us even imagined it.

01:28:18,130	S1:
That said, I think.

01:28:19,770	S13:
HTC.

01:28:20,470	S2:
Wanted that site to expand the downtown. They didn't want to own the site. And the other thing is, all of this conveyance of land, again, has to happen through town meeting. The Selectboard can't do that. The town manager can't do that. Conveyance of land can only happen at town meeting. The town owns the Winthrop School site. The only way anything happens at the Winthrop School site is if the Hamilton Town meeting says the town can do something with it. That's the only thing. Even even if we pass through zoning and put through a zoning over the site, if the town meeting says we can't sell it, nothing gets developed there. It can't happen.

01:28:53,270	S9:
If we vote no at the town meeting goes away.

01:28:56,569	S2:
Yeah. So I really want to be clear. And again, my purpose in asking for the funding to hire the consultants to look at this was, again, for us to take control of a state dictated law that we don't really like, but we want to see what's in there that can be helpful to our goals. We want to see what's in there that we can live with. And is there is there a way to comply? I don't not know. I'm not going to tell you that there is. I'm not going to I'm not going to stand here and say there isn't. It's my job as your time manager to find out, to help us find out.

And. 01:29:30,970	S2:
Again, the other thing is that everybody talks about the fact well they want by right Development by right. Development doesn't mean that it doesn't get reviewed at all, right? They still have to comply with Conservation Commission. They still have to comply with septic. They would because all construction in this town has to go through those processes. So if you give somebody the right. So if you buy a two acre parcel in the town of Hamilton, that's in a residential one, a you don't need a permit from the planning board of the CBA, you can go get your building permit as long as it has a certain amount of frontage, and as long as you can get the building plan through site plan review, which just wants to make sure you have a legal entrance onto the street, wants to make sure that you know where the house is going to be situated in relation to the size of the lot. They want to make sure that you get, and then you have to get a septic permit from the Board of Health, and then you have to get the conservation permit.

01:30:18,600	S9:
And a minimum number of maximums.

01:30:21,199	S2:
And, and there wouldn't be and there wouldn't be an A and there wouldn't be in a one, a district. If you wanted to build a single family home, you could build a single family home with eight bedrooms. And nobody could tell you not to.

01:30:30,670	S1:
But that's a single family.

01:30:32,029	S2:
No, no, I understand, but what I'm saying is that we're talking about kind of a fine point of of what's.

01:30:39,829	S1:
Isn't working out. You're talking about a school. The school option you guys are choosing is the 700 plus. If they were able to build a thousand units down there, you figure two adults in at least one kid, that's a thousand kids that are going to be coming into this community. We're going to put a.

01:30:57,770	S2:
I get.

01:30:58,529	S1:
A Peabody again. But if you look at the high school, it looks like a factory now blocking the windows so they can make more wall space. And the bus bridge is now turned into classrooms, and they've got a couple of portable classrooms stuck on the back of that place. And there's there's thousands in there and you know it. So know what happened there?

01:31:17,199	S2:
Again, I appreciate the voice. I appreciate the voice of what I do. I thank you, I thank you for having me. I would I would like to get it. I understand that.

01:31:27,029	S1:
Is going to affect.

01:31:27,970	S2:
Yes. Um, and so But I do want to allow HTC to speak for itself. I've said a few things on their behalf, and I think Rick wants to correct me.

01:31:37,500	S16:
Yeah, as I said, the last school committee I could be I could be the skunk at the garden party here. Um, but the reason I'm speaking is because the Hamilton Development Corporation actually contributed $25,000 to this study. But that's irrespective of why I wanted to speak to you tonight. First of all, thank you for everybody coming out and expressing your opinion. That's the whole reason for having this meeting and all the future meetings. Somebody was asking about the makeup of the advisory council. We recommended people that we knew were in opposition to this. Three concerns about Winthrop, because we didn't want people who were yes, people. We wanted people to be challenging the entire process, the integrity of the process, the outcome of the process from beginning to end because those questions are critical to answer. To convince people one way or another. So that's that's important. The other thing is Joe alluded to this, but this is about the town taking control. I think what's missing here is the town has made a conscious decision to tell the state to go pound sand. Okay. We are not going to meet the the December 31st deadline that mandates acceptance of this. So yes, there was an interim plan because originally the state wanted 1500 units. We negotiated and the planning board negotiated down to 731, but we recognized that was untenable. The public would never go for that. So the conscious decision was made. Forget it. We're not going to meet the deadline. We'll take the consequences. but we want to take control. And that's the whole point of this discussion and the future discussions of form based code. We would be doing form based code if if Threea was not around, and if the Winthrop School site had wasn't in play, we'd be doing this anyway, because we want to control the future of our downtown, and we want it to reflect what you and everybody else in the town Will thinks is acceptable and would allow to have happen. So that's why we're doing this. I thank everybody for being here. Please stay involved. Please ask challenging questions. That's why that's how we're going to get to either or deciding we don't want to do three A and take the consequences. And we'll figure out what the cost benefit is. That's up to you. Nobody says this has to happen, but I think what Joe is alluding to in the form based code is. Let's look at the options and what I want to point out. One other thing is Joe alluded to and this is true, the Supreme Court, based on the Milton case on October 3rd, will here and the challenge to three a now, I'm not a lawyer, but there are three potential outcomes. One is they reaffirm it and say executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities. Go right ahead and do what you've been doing. Two they'll overturn it and say, legislature. You've got to go back and figure out whether you want to have this law or not. Or three, they're going to send it back to the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities and saying, you've got to go through a public process to develop guidelines, to develop regulations because they only have guidelines, and that's what's being challenged. There's no regulations and regulations. You have to go through a public process, public comment. So this is a great opportunity because it could be in December or January, the Supreme Court rules, and it could be. It's gone. So that's it would be a great outcome. So anyway, we've got we've got plenty of time and.

01:35:41,770	S1:
We.

01:35:42,100	S2:
Have one over here that's been raised here for a while. I just want.

01:35:44,430	S1:
To.

01:35:44,829	S2:
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. You've been you've been patient I appreciate it. This doesn't go that far so I.

01:35:52,729	S9:
I don't know.

01:35:53,470	S2:
Yeah that's.

01:35:54,199	S9:
For sure.

01:35:55,000	S17:
I mean you guys can start the mass exodus now, but, uh, you're the same people that are at all these meetings. This is your echo chamber. I do want to consolidated school because I know what the special ed kids at Winthrop are doing. They're sitting on a stage in a makeshift classroom. I do the landscaping for Winthrop. I take care of the indoor garden. It's not a school worth being proud of. You should walk in there. You should tour all three elementary buildings. They're not to be proud of. And if we just do Cutler, then we're going to have to wait to do Winthrop and Booker. Five, ten, 20 years and it's going to be more expensive. But every single one of these meetings, it's the same. It's all 50 of you guys and it's an echo chamber. And I'm sorry, but like the taxes in town are wait, that's great. But I've got the mic. So you want you want to wait till I'm done? Okay, great. Awesome. Go for it. We got the cheerleaders in the back. Yeah! Mean girls. Let's do it. Let's do it anyhow.

01:37:12,800	S6:
I mean.

01:37:13,100	S17:
I know it's fine.

01:37:14,869	S2:
I just do.

01:37:16,970	S17:
Like you, teal and like. And and new planning board members who have signed on to the litigation and have a conflict of interest. Your. Yeah, I live in Hamilton, not Wenham, and I have kids. I have kids in the district. Do you have kids in the district?

01:37:38,130	S1:
No, actually, but I do pay.

01:37:39,569	S17:
Do you? Nancy? Do you? Nancy? Oh, okay. I'm sure you'll find me, because. No, whatever the the the the fact of the matter is, is that the town voted for Caroline. She's here because the town voted for her. And you guys can come here and be rude and, like, just have no class and congrats, but, like, listen to the meeting. They're here to give us a plan and a way forward. You can vote it down. You can vote for it. But to be just so close minded like this town is not sustainable. We don't have a thriving downtown. I go to the Black Cow on a Friday night. I can get a seat. I go to any of those shops. I go to Crosby's. They close at four. It's not sustainable.

01:38:31,300	S7:
It's great.

01:38:31,970	S1:
It's great. That's why we moved here.

01:38:33,399	S7:
That's right.

01:38:34,899	S17:
You can't. You can't. So that's why you can't get a gallon of milk for dinner. It's closed.

01:38:41,029	S1:
That's why we moved.

01:38:42,029	S2:
And that's and that. And you're right. So some of you have moved here for that and some have moved here for other reasons. And so the idea is that we have these community wide conversations to hear all those perspectives. And then we try to develop a plan with all that information in it. And we put it in front of you at the town meeting. We put it in front of you at the ballot box.

01:38:58,699	S1:
She's right about the schools. The schools do need to be improved, but consolidated school district can.

01:39:04,430	S2:
I'm sorry Steve, I've got other people that haven't spoken yet and I'd like to try to get. I'm going to I'm going to allow Beth to say something real quick, and then I'm not going to give the mic to any board or committee members. They have a platform that they can be heard all the time. So I'm sorry you'll be the last one.

01:39:21,970	S18:
Well, yeah. And that's. I am speaking personally. Not in any official capacity for the town. Um, I don't know what if Rick said there is possibly another opportunity. It could be that Home rule has decided that the entire law is unconstitutional. So that is another possibility. I wanted to clarify that. And then I wanted to encourage people if, um, if the Select board is meeting next week and the Planning Board has voted unanimously to ask them to send an amicus brief, and that means a a friendly brief on behalf of the town. And so if you think that's a great idea, let the select board know, because, um, as the planning board, we thought that was a good idea. So we made a recommendation to them. I just wanted to share that process friendly to the Milton case that basically says, I mean, they're being sued because they voted the wrong way. It's pretty much how that went down.

01:40:24,000	S1:
Um, what?

01:40:27,699	S1:
Do you think?

01:40:28,729	S19:
Um, Michael Madden, Highland Street. Just want to say a couple of things. One is, um, I prefer if we didn't use terms like you guys. There are many other words to describe what that means. So that's the first thing. The second thing is there's a reason why there's nobody in the blackout on a Friday. Saturday night is because it doesn't exist anymore.

01:40:52,470	S19:
Um, but.

01:40:59,199	S19:
But the main point that I want to make, because we're all about equity, right? We we want the same things that I hope you all want as our elected officials. And I would like to ask, where is the equity? When a kid that walks to Bücker is no longer able to do that. They have to get up 45 minutes early an hour earlier. Where is the equity for the same thing at Winthrop? There's no equity there. Where is the equity when they have to wait on buses that don't come for them? Thank you.

01:41:41,869	S20:
Someone over here, and then I get you. We're good. We're coming up about 15 to 20.

01:41:48,170	S21:
I'll be really quick. I just wanted to say that I think it's awesome that there's engagement and passion and also remind us all that we are a very small group in this room. There are a lot of people who live in Hamilton and Wenham who are not represented here, and so we should keep that in mind. This is this is not the be all, end all here. And I would also just say that a lot of the people up here are volunteering their time. I know some people are in paid positions, but these are volunteers who care about our town and ran for office and want to do good things for us, and I think we should just keep that in mind and be respectful. We live in a very small town. We are all neighbors. We see each other at the post, at Crosby's, walking our kids to school. And honestly, some of the passion has been really embarrassing here tonight and really disappointing. And I think we should strive to be better, all of us, regardless of what side you're on, because we're in this together. We're a small town. We all know each other. Let's let's try to be respectful.

01:42:54,869	S7:
Hey.

01:42:59,470	S1:
Charlie will drive.

01:43:02,029	S20:
You.

01:43:02,130	S1:
Just historically, if I'm wrong.

01:43:05,229	S22:
Somewhere in the last ten years, there was a drafted. I think there were 48 about housing on the ball fields. We went through school. The chief of police categorically stayed at one a day road, could not handle additional traffic and the entrance would have to go from walnut, chestnut, Elm, Fox, Tally Hall, over the bridle path where the gas line is onto the back field. So my question is if 40%, if that's what's going to go on Winthrop or whatever the percentage is, how is the traffic pattern going to work out?

01:43:49,970	S2:
So we don't we wouldn't be able to answer that question. And I think that's part of the thing. Again, the Winthrop School site is, uh, it's.

01:44:00,430	S2:
The town had already identified the Winthrop School site as a potential place to grow. 2015 2020, 2021 the state passed the what we now know as the three A or MBTA community housing law. And those two things are unrelated. They're both happened to be facing us at the same time. It's unfortunate. Certainly not something we planned on. It's not something that we want. I've said a couple of times here tonight already, I think that the three a law as currently written is a bad law. I think there's things about it that weren't considered properly, and I'm certainly willing to to work with the Selectboard and the town to push back on things and get the best deal we can for ourselves.

But. 01:44:40,600	S2:
Nobody in this process at all has said, oh, let's get the Winthrop School back so we can put 700 units or 400 units, and there's no number of units that we're trying to put on the Winthrop site. I think that from a planning perspective, anybody would look at that site and say it's a buffer area between an existing neighborhood and a different type of existing neighborhood, and any planner would would look at making that a transition. So if if the town and this is totally speculative. But if the town were to get that site back through a vote of the town meetings in both towns and a vote of the election in both towns, we'd get 14 acres back that we would then have to figure out, okay, we've got this zoning that we've looked at what would make sense here, and then bring that proposal back to the town meeting again and get that approved before we could even think about creating an RFP to put it on the market and sell it. We're not trying to do anything that you all don't want. We're asking we are really legitimately asking what is it you want? I've definitely heard from a lot of you about what you don't want and what you don't like and what you're afraid of. I get all of that. That's all good input. I'm happy to have that information. I also need to know what you want, what is okay to change, what isn't okay to change.

01:46:00,329	S9:
Downtown the way it is?

01:46:02,199	S2:
And that's a that's a valid that is a valid point. I've also had people in my office telling me we have to do x, Y and z. To improve downtown, we need, you know, we need more density to support our businesses. Because truthfully, part of the reason that part of the reason that the post is empty on a Friday night isn't because it used to be called the blackout. It's because there aren't enough people in town that go out to dinner every Friday night.

01:46:23,729	S9:
That's something that Massachusetts is facing as a whole. One of those states where there's been a population flight, people are headed out of here.

01:46:31,670	S2:
And so one of the well, I really don't want to get into debating how is it possible, but a big part of a big part of the data on that suggests that a part of the reason people are leaving. And anecdotally, people I know that have left the state have left because they couldn't find homes that they could afford. And, and the and the thing with remote work has made it easier for them to say, oh, I can take my position working for a financial services company and I can live in Charleston, South Carolina, and still do the same job, and I can get twice the house for half the money. So they're going there. And so we have that we have that right. We have that. We have that challenge here in the state of Massachusetts. I think that the intention of community housing law of the three, a law was it was well intended. The state is trying to incentivize towns to allow some more housing because we need housing. Part of the reason housing is unaffordable is because there's not enough of it for the number of people who want to live here. But I think that they did something strategically, technically wrong when they adopted it. I think it hurts small towns like ours, and we are going to make the case for that. We are making the case by doing this process, by inviting consultants in to intentionally look at something that's going to take us past our quote unquote deadline. We're trying we're trying to do the right thing by you. But what I need, what I think the process needs, what I'm hoping you can give us is the positives. What is it you want us to do? What what kind of change is acceptable so we can incorporate that stuff into what we want to do? Because without that information, we can run 15, 20 plans and people won't be satisfied.

01:48:04,829	S1:
Excuse me. I just want to answer that last point that you made. You know, the school.

01:48:09,600	S23:
Committee went ahead and voted 5 to 2 in favor of the big.

01:48:12,569	S1:
School.

01:48:13,100	S23:
And in complete contrast.

01:48:15,470	S1:
I understand.

01:48:16,000	S23:
To what the poll said. And it wasn't a survey. It was a scientific poll. They went ahead and did their own thing. What makes you think that the people in this room believe anything that gets said about that, when it was very clear in that survey that the big school was not preferred. So I told you what we want, okay.

01:48:37,470	S1:
We told you.

01:48:38,270	S20:
I.

01:48:38,869	S1:
Ignored.

01:48:39,770	S2:
So I hear you on that. Right. And what I can say is that the school and the town are two separate entities. I can't answer for what the school district, the school building committee has done. I, I on the school building committee. I'm in regular contact with Eric. I understand their reasons for what they did. But I also understand your concerns. But I can't ask you. Don't judge what we're doing based on what somebody else has done.

01:49:02,199	S23:
That's the.

01:49:03,130	S1:
Joke.

01:49:03,369	S2:
No I'm not. I'm telling you right now, I haven't. I have never lied to you. I'm telling you right now, I've never lied to you. And so please judge me based on that.

01:49:10,130	S23:
The people that are in this room are hearing these facts. Is there any wonder why you get the reaction that you do?

01:49:18,470	S2:
I'm just asking you to judge me and the work that my department has, the work that the Select board and I do together judge us based on what we do. I understand that some of you and some people in town have difficulty with what the school committee did. I can't answer that for them. That's not that's not my job. That's not my role.

01:49:36,199	S9:
The two mesh, though, is on the lease issue. Right. And it was that lease issue that had the Select board just said.

01:49:42,470	S20:
So.

01:49:42,670	S2:
The Select.

01:49:43,029	S20:
Board.

01:49:43,800	S2:
The Select board did say at that meeting.

01:49:46,029	S9:
I had to study that meeting. I literally have watched it so I can replay it in my sleep. And I saw how the decision was made, how people started out by saying, I don't think we should do that. I think we should not like we should let the town vote on. We don't want to look like we're leaning towards one. And then through a series of discussions, they end up making a motion to do it, knowing that they were intentionally projecting to the community their support behind one of the projects, because Winthrop was considered needed for three a and that was it was literally quoted. So please, like.

01:50:21,100	S20:
I would have to go back and watch it.

01:50:22,300	S9:
Video from the select board. So that's where the two kind of overlap, right? I understand about town meeting when that gentleman stood up and said, hey, FYI, there's $150 million consolidated project coming down. But don't worry, we're going to sell Winthrop for 20 million. It'll be fine. Like, that was like, insane. That's when my hair stood up. I said, what? Right. And so? So that's so they they do mesh. They do kind of connect and just separate the two. It really goes down to the lease. And it seems to me that if the Selectboard for ten years was really wanting to get rid of Winthrop, that would have been a great question to ask the community before changing the leases, saying, are you guys interested in developing Winthrop for commercial uses? Yes. No. Like that would have been a fascinating thing. Instead of giving the power to the select board to to choose to extend or not extend because of their agenda. Not necessarily representing the will. I mean, if people voted and they voted and they wanted to develop it, then so, so be it, right? That's the power of the vote. But our vote was taken away because Winthrop was taken off the choices. I listened to that Selectboard meeting to when when it said, well, it was only renewed for a few years, so we can't we just put an ex through all the Winthrop options.

01:51:36,829	S2:
Well, I think there was only one Winthrop option left at that.

01:51:38,930	S20:
Point.

01:51:39,869	S9:
In December. When the consultants looked at all those projects. Winthrop was actually higher rated than Cutler for a consolidated location. So. So to have Winthrop be removed from us because of the opinions of the Selectboard, that that's where the two really intersect. And I think that there's concern Concerned about like listening and and motives and and how and like what's like the the the the deep state of Hamilton. Like what's going on with with like things that aren't we don't get to vote on. I'm not trying to be like a bully or anything. I'm just trying to be honest about it. That's where that's where it really gets to me. As a resident of 30 years I've been here, I've been through a lot of the schools and and to have to have all this sort of going on in the background and not having had any idea of it is really disturbing. And I think a lot of people are waking up to that now, and that's where there's no trust, that's where it's been broken. And so, so the integrity of what the consultants do, the integrity of the people who are making committees and choosing and and people who have wanted to do it for ten years, like they shouldn't have so much power where we get like, I use this mantra at one of the select board meetings a few a few weeks ago. You know, when you're with a little kid, do you want to walk upstairs or shall I carry you? Right? That's a question you ask your kid. You give them a choice. Do you want to walk or shall I carry you? Either way, you're going upstairs, right? So think about that as we're presented. Options. Are these really options or is there a motive that's like we're just sort of being corralled in. And that's where I think there's got to be like a heightened sense of transparency and with the schools. And then I'll be quiet. I'm sorry, but with the schools, like we're doing this vote for the consolidation. And what's going to happen is that then Cutler and Winthrop won't get renovated, even just by the repairs that need to be done. Why can't we do that consolidated vote, which you guys have decided and have another warrant that says, you know, 50 whatever, 25 whatever to renovate Cutler so we don't screw the kids in color and like get, get pushed back seven years. Like, can we think creatively even though the state may not reimburse like it might be the same cost? Like is there a way to think strategically? So we actually have a legitimate vote to support our children and our schools without it being 750 mega Manga school or nothing, right? Like is there? That seems like a fortune.

01:54:07,100	S24:
All right, so we've got about.

01:54:08,529	S2:
Five minutes left in the night here. I'm going to ask, is there anybody hasn't spoken that would like to have something to say?

01:54:14,329	S20:
Um, just time to talk about your time.

01:54:17,130	S9:
Well, man.

01:54:18,100	S24:
All right.

01:54:18,369	S2:
So I've been asked to take a few minutes to talk about the Gordon Conwell land. Um, so the Gordon Conwell, um, that's that's going to require another whole meeting.

Um. 01:54:28,770	S9:
Listed for.

01:54:29,430	S7:
Tonight.

01:54:30,399	S2:
Was listed as one of the things that we're facing. And I tried to say at the beginning of meeting that we probably weren't going to have time to get to all four of those things, but I will say really quickly, Gordon Conwell has identified a buyer for this student housing. It's the six buildings and some associated land totals, about a little more than 11 acres, a little less than 12 acres. Um, there are 209 units of student housing there. Um, they've presented there in a purchase and sale agreement. Right now, has a 60 year, 90 day due diligence period. We've met. We, meaning myself and the building commissioner, have met the the buyers. One time we they'll be asking questions. They've been into the building office a little bit. They've been looking for certain forms, you know, not forms, but looking for some certain records and things to to show how they can reuse the building. Um, we've had legal counsel. We've had two separate legal opinions, um, on, on what their proposal is. And so we're reviewing that the Select Board has asked for me to try to, for me in the town council to to work on a memorandum of understanding with the proposed buyers and a development agreement, quote unquote, with Gordon Conwell Gordon. Commonwealth's largely agreed to the terms the Select Board had asked. Uh, we're going to have a draft of that development agreement available at the Select board meeting on Monday night for them to discuss with John, the attorney and, uh, John has at the mine and the Select board's urging Drafted memorandum of understanding that we then present to the buyers. That hasn't been done yet. That's a more first draft. We haven't really discussed a lot of that with them yet. Um, the idea there is that they would buy the units there. They're proposals to buy the units and operate them as, uh, market rate housing with some set aside for affordable. The Select board has asked for 25%. And then we would make the case to the state that since it's a rental project and 25% of the units are affordable, we should get credit for all 209 units on our ship. That is the case we're trying to make. That's the case we intend to make. The purchase and sale agreement between Gordon Conwell and the buyer lays out a scale of between 10 and 25% to be affordable. So Gordon Conwell has signed off on that already. The buyers are aware of our request and they have not said no. That's the purpose of the memorandum of understanding. We're trying to get them to agree to that. That's going to probably require a little bit more negotiation and discussion. Um, I'm always a cautious. Optimistic. It's just the way I prefer to go through life. I try not to be a pessimist. So, um, we will hopefully see something developing that over the next couple of months. Um, that would put those units on the tax rolls. Now, it wouldn't be like a condominium because I can't tax into each individual unit, but I could tax the property to the owner and that would give us some tax relief, some additional tax benefit for the town, which would offset whoever moves in there that has kids. Because we as we know that student housing was, was designed for small families because a lot of the seminary students had children. So for the first time since those units were constructed, we would actually get a tax benefit from the buildings that would help us afford the schools.

01:57:35,699	S9:
So with.

01:57:37,270	S7:
The three A.

01:57:39,569	S24:
To be.

01:57:39,869	S2:
Determined.

01:57:40,470	S24:
That that.

01:57:41,069	S2:
Question has been raised, we've asked those consultants to look at that. But I also have to talk to the buyers about that. You know, we have to see what that does. From my perspective, this is me. I haven't had any direction to select board on this yet, and I have to have a conversation with them. From my perspective, I think it would be a good thing for the town to see those those buildings sold to a private landowner that we could tax. It would be beneficial to us. It would ensure that the buildings are kind of brought up to code and improved a little bit and are safer, and it would ensure that we get some new tax revenue that the town desperately needs. Asking them or letting them know that we were thinking about putting a zoning overlay over their property, that that that still has to be investigated. I think it's possible, but we need to we need to answer some questions on that. And that might if done, that might help us. But we still need to have that conversation with the with the new owners. We have to have kind of an internal look at it, like, what does that do? What what what are the consequences of that action.

01:58:43,199	S1:
So is there any additional development within.

01:58:46,800	S23:
The 11 acres.

01:58:47,930	S1:
Or.

01:58:48,000	S20:
Is it.

01:58:48,300	S2:
Not as currently constructed? So that's the thing, right? The the buildings. And we finally tracked down the records. It looks like all six of the buildings were ultimately built under the Dover exemption with Dover protections. So that means that when they separate from the seminary, they will gain the status of pre-existing nonconforming use legally. And so they can be operated the way they were built and the way they've been operated in a by a different entity, which would mean that we'd be able to collect taxes on it. They can't expand the footprint. They can't do anything different there. They can't add new buildings because we don't have zoning in that area that would allow for that to happen. So that's some of the stuff we're trying to negotiate out real quick. I'm going to let my my good buddy here talk.

01:59:33,399	S25:
Uh, Tosh Blake Saginaw Street. Um, it's been a very entertaining from start to finish for sure. Um, and spirited, which is good. We don't want to get too spirited, but spirited is good. Uh, a few things, um, addressing some of these points. are, I think, Miss Beaulieu, she mentioned, you mentioned about I've heard this before, especially almost exactly from um, uh, a representative from Harbor Light, which is a developer and said made this point, which I think is kind of gets people a little maybe angry is when you say the zoning, it doesn't mean anything is going to be built there. But to me, that's like saying, okay, well, look, uh, you have a house. We just want to get rid of, rid of the locks in your house. No one's actually going to go in there when you're not there or anything. Don't worry about it. But it's very suspicious because obviously zoning is kind of like a lock. It's a safeguard against unwanted effects. So if you see that it sounds, you know, not intentionally but sounds very patronizing, like, oh, don't worry about it. It just just removes the locks. Nothing's going to happen. Probably. So just as a point of because I've heard that from other sectors included interested parties like Harbor Lights saying the same thing and didn't get a good response then either. Um, uh, in buzz words, just another thing for the school. If you say equity, sometimes people are going to react negatively to that word just because it's a politicized word. Um, you know, don't want to get too much into that. But, uh, even I know you mean. Well, it's it's a it's a legit word, but it gets it gets a little. It's a little loaded, let's say. Um, but I think one question is, as you said, what? You try to get a good deal with the state and things like that when they or when they, when they first proposed stuff, you tried to negotiate early on with the state with units and things.

02:01:05,529	S1:
Rick. Rick said planning.

02:01:06,529	S2:
Board, he was on planning for the time, the the.

02:01:08,329	S1:
Planning board.

02:01:08,930	S2:
And.

02:01:09,300	S1:
A lot of planning boards. Robert said, pushed back on what.

02:01:11,130	S2:
The state was saying because the.

02:01:11,930	S1:
Original projection.

02:01:13,069	S2:
Was that the new zoning.

02:01:14,430	S1:
If.

02:01:14,729	S2:
Adopted.

02:01:15,170	S1:
Would.

02:01:15,369	S2:
Mean.

02:01:15,529	S1:
1500.

02:01:16,170	S2:
Units to the town.

02:01:17,699	S25:
I think.

02:01:18,300	S1:
But yeah, take credit for it.

02:01:19,829	S25:
But Rick Mitchell.

02:01:21,029	S1:
Yeah, it was a lot of different.

02:01:23,270	S2:
Planning boards, a lot.

02:01:24,029	S1:
Of different.

02:01:25,100	S2:
City.

02:01:25,329	S1:
Mayors and staff pushed back and wanted.

02:01:26,869	S2:
The regulations amended. And they did it.

02:01:29,029	S25:
I mean, that's good. They got a better. I think one concern just about that point is it's good that you're doing that. I agree with that. And, um, you know, trying to push back. But I think part of the problem is and maybe a lot more towns should have done this. The only one town initially did push back on the initial request by the state to have some kind of clarity plan. It was one town where a lawyer in the town said, what is this? This is nuts, right? And we're not even going to give them a preliminary plan. So towns like Hamilton, others, you know, you're all alone in this kind of started negotiating with the state and in a way, on principle, in my opinion, maybe a lot of other people's. The state is completely in the wrong and it should have been on its face, you know, and maybe, you know, I should have been there. You know, I'm not a member of a committee, but said, hey, like, the town shouldn't even and it kind of happens behind the scenes in defense of the town in advance of Home Rule. Should not have even said anything to the state, maybe, and not said, oh, we're going to start horse trading, possibly, and see if the state is amenable. On its face. It was a ridiculous law, and I would think people who are in public positions, really your loyalty and duty should be to the town. Nothing to do with the state, nothing to do any so-called outside stakeholders who might have an interest in developing the town. Right here, the word stakeholder. I get nervous because there's a term called outside stakeholders, which could be people don't live here, but they have designs in a town which may not be in the town. People's interest. So when you say, well, we were doing this in this estate, I know you meant well. And that's what a lot of other towns are doing, but it just it looks almost like you in some, you know, not that you do, but agree with the state law or the state law is very offensive because of the way it, you know. You sure?

02:02:59,399	S1:
Yeah.

02:03:06,329	S24:
So I had somebody.

02:03:08,829	S2:
Make a similar statement to me last week in a private conversation.

02:03:12,869	S24:
What I tried to express.

02:03:14,399	S2:
To them, I hope I do a little bit better job of it tonight is as the town manager in the town, my my principal responsibility always is to make sure the town, which is in this case or in all cases, the corporate entity, corporate municipal entity known as the Town of Hamilton. My my job is always to make sure that the town of Hamilton complies. We we spend all day of our lives, myself and my department heads. That's almost all we do all the time. My finance director complies with our financial policies and best practices for accounting. My planning director complies with best practices and open meeting law, and we comply with procurement law. So whenever we get presented with a new law from the state, we've all the modus operandi, the the the state of operation is always how do we comply with this. And it's always it's not. It's almost always just do what they say. It's almost always how.

02:04:08,000	S24:
Can we.

02:04:08,670	S2:
Get them, make them happy and.

02:04:10,729	S24:
Still.

02:04:11,100	S2:
Protect what we have. And we always go to that. And so that's that's really where we're at right now. This whole process here is, is a, an exercise in trying to see if there's a way to comply. I don't know that there is or that there isn't, but I do know that I do know that the entire town of Hamilton should be involved in the conversation before a five member board or one town manager makes that decision.

02:04:34,529	S1:
I want you to board with one so representing that circle in its entirety.

02:04:39,829	S7:
They did bring that up at the meeting.

02:04:41,229	S1:
And they did.

02:04:41,770	S2:
Yeah.

Yeah. 02:04:42,470	S1:
And, and and.

02:04:43,470	S2:
I, I know that we've I know that there's been some effort to try to coordinate that. They're planning board has been trying to contact our planning board. I don't I don't run the planning board. I don't know what.

02:04:55,329	S9:
They said that about.

02:04:56,130	S1:
You. That's what they said last week about me.

02:04:59,170	S9:
I tried to get in touch with you.

02:05:01,029	S1:
In the planning and.

02:05:01,729	S9:
Here.

02:05:02,100	S1:
Yeah.

02:05:02,630	S2:
So I. So if they're trying to get in touch with me to get to the planning board, I think that's probably the broken process because I don't usually run the planning board, I don't Patrick is the is the staff to the planning board. When they need something, they come and ask me for, you know, money for some consultants things, but I don't I don't manage the planning boards.

02:05:17,569	S1:
Report when you show it at 72% of the circle, and when it shows it is 33 or whatever it is, and it minimizes the impact, it's not the true impact. I understand on everything else except for this thing. And when you show it that way, it looks like we're being guided into something that we don't want to be.

02:05:36,229	S2:
I'm not trying to guide you into it.

02:05:37,500	S1:
So it's.

02:05:38,869	S7:
That.

02:05:40,029	S2:
I will, I will. After tonight, I will. Now, I've been trying to focus on facilitating this meeting for the last three and a half weeks. So now that this is off my plate, I have room to dry.

And. 02:05:51,930	S1:
Um, so just a basic question, and I apologize if it's already been addressed. How much are we talking about at risk if we don't comply with what is.

02:06:02,329	S2:
So that so so the so right now the only thing that we know for sure that we benefit from is a is some housing money, some money to the Hamilton Housing Authority. And like I think it's about 30 or $40,000 I don't know. Um and so and so.

02:06:18,699	S1:
So we're spending all this time and resources, we're in about $30,000.

02:06:22,699	S2:
Well but it's but it's but it's also all the other stuff that gets taken away. So, so in in in.

02:06:28,930	S1:
Is there a place that.

02:06:30,430	S2:
In October it was in October. The town. I'll give you an example. In October, the Hamilton Development Corp., with a little bit of assistance and support from the Select Board, might have been earlier than October. They applied to the state for a one stop grant to be able to get $4 million to work on physical improvements to the downtown along Bay Road Railroad. Willow. They want to redo the sidewalks, crosswalks, sidewalk planting trees, you know, just really beautify the place. And that Grant. We didn't get it. But that grant, we wouldn't even be able to apply for if we don't comply with this. So that that that's potential for $4 million of state money to fix our downtown, to fix Bay road, but we can't even get a line for it if we don't pass this. And I'm not saying that that's a reason to pass it. I'm just saying that quantifies is one thing. There are a ton of grants. We have a lot of problem with water in this town. Even though we're not a coastal community. We have a lot of inundation flooding. We would not even be allowed to apply for MVP grants, municipal vulnerability preparedness grants. We wouldn't if we wanted to fix flooding at on Bay road near the pond at the park, we wouldn't even be able to go to state and say, hey, we have this problem, we need a bigger culvert. They wouldn't give us any money. They wouldn't. They would say no to that. I'm just saying.

Yeah. 02:07:42,130	S1:
So does this mean that you're going to.

02:07:44,270	S23:
Push for compliance?

02:07:45,100	S2:
No. I mean look here we we're going to present something for you to vote on.

02:07:52,930	S7:
But I hope.

02:07:53,630	S1:
I don't look I.

02:07:54,729	S2:
Don't want to.

02:07:55,270	S1:
Look.

02:07:55,970	S2:
I don't I don't want the money. I don't think I said that at all. I, you you asked me a question, so I answer the question. So now I want to get you a moment. Well, that's that's a little disingenuous. So this it's 905. It's almost 910. I think I want to be respectful of everybody's time. I appreciate you all coming. If I keep you here till 11:00, you won't ever come to another one of these. So I'm going to say the meetings overnight.