00:03:05,870 S1: But we agree just to separate. I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got a couple items. All right. Good evening everyone. 00:03:14,430 S2: Uh, welcome. Uh, those online and those here. 00:03:17,229 S1: Okay. 00:03:17,900 S2: Uh, at this point, I'll call our select board meeting to order for Monday, March 4th, uh, at 704. Um, we have a quorum. We don't have anybody online from the Select board. Uh, Mr. Olson will not be joining us tonight. Um. 00:03:34,870 S3: Miss John. 00:03:35,800 S2: We have a handful of board and committee openings. Uh, community preservation committee. We have one opening conservation commission, two openings. Council on aging, two associate openings, finance and advisory committee, one associate opening, uh Historic District commission, two openings for three year terms, two openings for a two year term. One must be a resident resident of the historic district and one must be a resident realtor. Folks, if you're at home, please fill these positions so I don't have to keep reading these. Human Rights Commission one opening planning board one associate opening. Zoning board of appeals one associate opening. All right. Now we have time for public comment for three minutes on topics not already on the agenda. If you're online, raise your hand. If you're here, just come to the podium. State your name and your business. 00:04:28,899 S2: All right. We'll move on to our agenda. We have one item on our consent agenda, and it's to approve the minutes of February 5th, 2020 fourth Select Board meeting. 00:04:40,470 S4: So that's a concern. Yeah I approve. I moved to approve the consent agenda as outlined. 00:04:46,529 S1: Second. 00:04:47,629 S2: All right. Any discussion? All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All right. unanimous. All right. 00:04:55,199 S1: I'm sorry. 00:04:57,769 S2: Where's your. 00:04:58,129 S1: Hand? 00:04:59,670 S5: No hand. Stop interrupting me. 00:05:03,000 S2: All right. Uh, on our agenda, we have, uh, approve a new common license for meadow Brook farm review and vote in our applications. You can see the. 00:05:13,769 S1: The finance committee there. 00:05:15,199 S2: The application. 00:05:16,269 S1: Bill. 00:05:16,500 S6: Bowler sitting in front. 00:05:19,670 S5: Um. 00:05:21,500 S1: Yeah. You've got you've got. 00:05:23,269 S5: The application in front of you. It's all in order. It's been reviewed. Uh, in the office. A the applicant is online if you wish to talk to her. Katie Vandy, um. 00:05:33,170 S1: Up to you. Yeah. We need a motion. 00:05:35,199 S4: Uh, I move that we approve the new common license for meadow Brook farm. 00:05:41,000 S2: All right. Um, any discussion or. 00:05:45,569 S1: Second. 00:05:46,500 S2: Any discussion? Do we want to hear from. Is she still online? 00:05:50,870 S1: Yep. Nope. 00:05:52,230 S2: Uh, we have a rep from Green Meadows Farm. If you want to say anything, you can say hi. 00:05:56,370 S7: Hi. Hi, there. Um, it's Meadowbrook farm. 00:05:59,569 S2: Meadowbrook farm? Yeah. Um, any questions or comments on the application? Pretty standard. 00:06:05,399 S1: Yeah. Straightforward. 00:06:07,370 S2: All right. Um. 00:06:12,029 S2: All those in favor? Aye aye aye aye. Ayes have it. Thank you. That was quick and easy. 00:06:19,230 S7: Thank you very much. 00:06:20,399 S1: Yeah. Have a good night. 00:06:23,129 S7: You too. Thanks. 00:06:24,430 S1: Yeah. 00:06:25,930 S4: Tell your friends. 00:06:26,769 S1: Yeah. Yeah. All right. 00:06:29,199 S2: Up next, we have, uh, approve, uh, letter of the National grid regarding the town hall project and the related rooftop solar project on the DPW garage. Uh, review and vote. We've got some new kind of energy stuff we're going to talk about tonight. Joe. You want. 00:06:43,600 S1: To. 00:06:43,870 S5: Yeah. Real, real, real briefly. Um, obviously, you know that the town hall project includes a decarbonisation project. A separate but but attached decarbonisation project. Part of that includes the use of solar on the rooftop of the garage to power the electrical needs of the building. That project has been designed as National Grid normally does, except for household rooftop solar. Anytime a solar projects recommended, they put it into a study group. Our project is currently in a group, but two study groups out. It does not. The timeline does not match up with our timeline to do the construction here. So the Hamilton Environmental Impact Committee has working with us at the town manager's office. Reached out to Senator Tarr and Representative Kastner and got them involved. We've got a meeting in mid-March with representatives from National Grid asking them to remove us from the study. But Senator Tarr suggested that a letter from the Select board and another letter from the town manager might help get that conversation going in the right direction. I have taken the liberty of drafting you a letter along the terms outlined by the EIC, and it's in front of you for your consideration. You can make any edits changes you want, and we will get that out with the chairman's signature. I just ask that when you make a motion that you authorize that the motion includes an authorization for the for the chairman to sign on your behalf. 00:08:14,370 S2: Um, yeah, if you wanted. It's on page 13. 00:08:18,769 S1: Of our. 00:08:19,769 S4: Warner. 00:08:20,230 S1: One. Yes. 00:08:21,670 S4: Uh, all right, Mr. Warner, I'm writing to ask for your assistance in helping the town of Hamilton move forward with a critically important energy efficiency project at our historic town hall. Late last year, the town of Hamilton authorized a renovation and decarbonization project at our historic town hall, located at 537 Bay road. A key part of the decarbonization relies on a small rooftop solar array, which will be installed on the roof of our adjacent public works garage, which is being sought to provide power to the town hall. The Town of Hamilton understands that its critical rooftop solar project for the historic Hamilton Town Hall has been placed by National Grid in Cape Ann. Group study 002, which will result in a significant delay in approval of system interconnection by a national grid. This project involves a relatively small solar array of approximately 46kW, the impact of which on the grid will be further reduced by the town halls consumption of electricity behind the meter. Given the small impact of the project on the grid, the importance of the project to all residents of the town, and the goodwill that will accrue to the company by facilitating the renovation of a historic building using state of the art green technologies, including geothermal heat pumps. The Select Board would respectfully request that the project be expedited by being removed from the group study. If the project remains in the group study, it is therefore delayed. We fear the construction and financing timetable for the entire renovation project may be endangered. We look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. Below is a screenshot from National Grid's Massachusetts data portal showing the status of the project as of February 1st, 2024. Unfortunately, the timing of the National Grid Study Group and our timeline for completing our town hall renovations are not currently aligned. Our project is ready to go for bid for a general contractor, and we already have a third energy services company under contract in order for this project to move forward as designed. We ask that you allow the small solar project T we're missing an O to be pulled from the study group and allowed to proceed. If you have any questions or. 00:10:08,529 S1: Or need or. 00:10:09,429 S4: Yep, yep. Need. For further information about this project, please contact Hamilton Town Manager JD at JD at Hamilton MassDOT gov or phone number. Best regards, Sean Farrell, Hamilton, Lockport. 00:10:22,000 S2: Any comments edits other than those two kind of typos that Caroline pointed out? 00:10:28,600 S4: The only question I would ask is just for. 00:10:34,830 S4: The sake of distinctness. Like where it says I'm writing to ask for your assistance. Like, could we just say I'm writing to ask that you remove something from this. Like, should we just state it up at the top? Yeah, because it does feel like we then go into like three, you know, a couple of paragraphs that where we sort of talk about it all. I mean, maybe they get letters like this all the time. It doesn't matter. But it seems like if we just said like. 00:10:54,269 S1: So. 00:10:55,070 S4: We're writing to ask you to remove us from the following project. And here's why. It just might be. 00:11:00,570 S1: Yeah. 00:11:04,669 S2: So I'm writing ask for your assistance in removing the town of Hamilton from the. 00:11:12,970 S1: What'd you say? I'm writing to ask. 00:11:14,629 S8: That we be removed. 00:11:16,500 S1: Yeah. Okay. 00:11:17,700 S5: Yeah, I work, I work in that. Yep. I get from National Grid. 00:11:20,370 S1: It's a good study. Yeah. 00:11:23,629 S4: Otherwise I'm fine to move to approve the letter as written with edits. 00:11:29,029 S1: All right. 00:11:29,600 S8: What is the timeline that. Oh, this study would be versus when we think this. 00:11:33,970 S1: Over. 00:11:34,870 S2: February of next year and we'll be done by then. 00:11:37,669 S8: We'll open up next month or. 00:11:40,070 S2: What's that? 00:11:40,570 S8: What do we think? This will open it up immediately. 00:11:42,769 S5: It should. I mean, it's. 00:11:45,000 S2: Basically. 00:11:45,429 S5: The size of the project is similar to the size of a housetop rooftop. It shouldn't impact the grid at all. 00:11:52,000 S2: Um, it's all behind the meter. So we're not paying back in or, you know, it's it's it's a relatively straightforward. 00:11:59,299 S8: Yeah. It doesn't seem material. 00:12:00,929 S2: Good. But they don't drag their feet on it like they have in the past for different things that we've had. 00:12:07,230 S9: I have a motion standing. 00:12:09,870 S8: It's been seconded. Right. 00:12:11,169 S2: No, you just did. I'd love. 00:12:12,570 S7: For you to. 00:12:12,870 S2: Do that. Any further discussion? 00:12:19,129 S7: It's really great. 00:12:20,029 S4: Um. Indian condiment. 00:12:21,230 S7: You can talk about it later. Okay. 00:12:23,070 S2: All right. It's been made and seconded. Uh, no further discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye aye. All right. Uh, Joe will edit that and then get it to me and I'll sign it. We'll send it out. Yep. Thank you. All right. Uh, Up next, uh, we are going to open our joint meeting, uh, with the finance advisory Committee. 00:12:47,100 S10: Okay. Yes. 00:12:51,799 S10: Yeah. I'd like to call the, uh, March 4th Finance and Advisory Committee to order. We do have a member online, so we'll need to do a roll call. So it's 713. 00:13:05,129 S11: John privilege. Present. 00:13:06,799 S7: Christina Hargrove. Present. 00:13:08,929 S10: John McGrath, present. And on the zoom. 00:13:12,629 S12: Alex Randal is present. 00:13:14,200 S10: Great. Thanks, everybody. Any comments from the public regarding the fin com? Just give folks an opportunity to. 00:13:24,600 S2: Just that they're awesome. 00:13:25,769 S10: Just. Yeah, well we're trying hard but not succeeding. Okay, great. Let me turn it back over to Sean. 00:13:34,230 S2: All right. So we have a and I'll entertain the request. Okay. Uh, we have, uh. Excuse me. A handful of things on our kind of joint agenda here. I'll read through them, and then I'll briefly talk about a request to kind of change the order of things. Uh, uh, first, uh, we have reviewed the draft warrant for the annual town meeting. Uh, reopen the warrant to add or remove articles, if so needed. Uh, close the warrant again if we reopen it. Uh, and then vote Selectboard and finance and advisory Committee recommendations on articles. And then close the joint session with the finance advisory Committee. We've had a request from the, um, proponents of the citizens petitions. If we could talk about theirs first at the top of the agenda, instead of going through all of the warrant and leaving them for last. And I'd entertain, um, ideas if people are okay with that. If they are, we'll go ahead and proceed. If not, we'll go through the regular order. Does anybody mind if we do that first? 00:14:32,700 S5: I'm okay. 00:14:33,100 S8: With it. 00:14:33,669 S10: Yeah. 00:14:34,370 S11: No. 00:14:35,429 S2: All right. All right. So let's go into the warrant. Then we'll start with the citizens petitions. 00:14:41,169 S5: I'm gonna. I've got the warrant up on the screen. Um, uh, there's a slightly updated version that Wendy made some adjustments to that I have on the screen, which might be different from what was in your package. Okay. 00:14:52,070 S2: Um, and we're looking at 3-4 to start. Um, which is, uh, citizens petition resolution on use of artificial turf at the Hamilton one and Regional School District athletic fields project. 00:15:11,870 S2: Um, 00:15:14,570 S2: Jay, do you want to speak to this? Are you the point person? 00:15:19,899 S13: Uh, yeah, I think I got this short straw tonight. Uh, we really just wanted to come to get your opinions on these different petitions. I know that Tom had mentioned at a previous meeting that he had some concerns over them, so we wanted to see what those concerns were. Each one of these petitions will be. The motion will be made by a different person, the lead person on the original petition. Um, and so we're anxious to see how the board and the finance committee feel about these. As you go through it tonight. Thank you. 00:15:50,700 S2: All right. Uh, and just a brief summary. Here we have this article seeks a vote on whether town meeting supports the use of artificial turf at the Hamilton one and regional school athletic fields. 00:16:03,470 S2: In Finicum. Did you guys at your meeting and know you got the warrant, like Tuesday morning? I don't know if you guys made any votes on Wednesday. I'm assuming we didn't, but. 00:16:11,870 S10: We haven't made any votes. Okay. So we're here to participate and we'll probably make our votes on Wednesday night, which is our next meeting. So we'll we'll certainly, you know, participate here tonight. But again, there's still some information that we need to get our hands on here. 00:16:29,470 S2: All right. And if there's any kind of low hanging fruit tonight on other articles. 00:16:33,470 S10: Yeah. 00:16:33,870 S2: Welcome to vote online. 00:16:35,129 S10: Absolutely. Yeah. 00:16:37,629 S5: Yeah. And we do have time. Typically we vote this early because we were worried about printing and getting it out. We don't have to do that now. So your next meeting is the 18th. You would still have time. Um, if you if there are any that you wanted to hold the vote on, you could vote them on the 18th. Okay. 00:16:53,830 S2: Um, but good to know. 00:16:55,100 S5: If you clean it up now, that's even better. 00:16:56,470 S2: Sometimes we do, but sometimes you do have carryover. If we didn't get all the information. Yeah. All right. 00:17:03,870 S14: Okay. Three, four. Do you want to ask council to town council? 00:17:09,630 S2: You want to give us your opinion? Sure. I can't remember. This is in your in the packet. The opinion. Yeah. 00:17:17,599 S11: Yeah. So. Okay. Thank you. Mr. chairman, members of the board. Uh, with respect to the first article, that is up for consideration. Article 3-4 as indicated, it's a citizen's petition, which essentially boils down to a resolution on whether town meeting approves of the use of artificial turf at the Hamilton Witham Athletic Field project. It is simply that it's a resolution. It's not binding, and it is more or less just takes the a vote on what the sense of the meeting is with respect to the use of artificial turf. 00:17:57,569 S2: All right. Any questions? Comments? 00:18:06,200 S9: I mean, I guess since it's not. 00:18:08,769 S4: Binding, it's quite literally to take the temperature of a sample of people who are in the room. Right? For no other purpose other than to have the information. 00:18:19,200 S10: Yeah. 00:18:20,700 S7: Okay. 00:18:21,599 S2: Yeah. 00:18:27,630 S10: Yeah. Um, I can make a couple of comments. And I mentioned this last week at the fin com. Um, last year when this was voted, um, the fin com did not offer a favorable recommendation to the entire project because of the size. But we also mentioned that we didn't feel, um, the health and safety issues had been vetted enough. Um, and that certainly could be debated. This article is just another opportunity for the town taxpayers to vet the, you know, the project. So, you know, our thought is, um, the more opportunities the public has to express their point of view, the better. And we do realize that this 00:19:17,700 S10: we do realize that this doesn't have any, um, sort of binding action. But just to reflect back on last year's vote. You know, we think it's, you know, a positive thing to give the town an opportunity. So that's just a little bit of a retrospective of the whole project. I've just been. 00:19:36,299 S5: Done. I just note that Benton member Harry Phillips. 00:19:38,269 S14: Will join you in on. Yeah. 00:19:40,069 S10: Okay. Thanks, Harry. 00:19:43,970 S10: So that's. I don't know if there were any other comments, but. 00:19:47,099 S15: Yeah, I mean, taking a step back. I mean, it's sort of hard to look at this article in isolation because all three are related. And we had the proponent at our last meeting, it was um, he he had basically said that this is a belt and suspenders approach, which is, you know, we're going to try to amend last year's article, but short of that, we're going to try to, you know, also like, you know, adopt a new bylaw as well as, you know, instruct. You know, just for this is the sort of least effective of the articles, but to send a message that this should be, you know, the very least talked about at the school committee level. So I think you sort of have to look, it's hard to vote one way on this article and vote a different way on the other articles. Right? 00:20:39,799 S7: Um. 00:20:42,000 S4: I mean, I don't know how much we want to discuss, like, our feelings about it versus. 00:20:48,430 S2: Well, it's I mean, like Joe said, the goal tonight is to make recommendations. But if we can't come the consensus, we feel that we need more information. We can wait to the next meeting. But I guess for me personally, I don't I don't know if I would recommend it. I don't know if I would not recommend it at the moment, just because it's a non-binding sense of the folks that show up the town meeting, and I don't. 00:21:15,130 S7: Know which is. 00:21:15,529 S2: Going to be, I don't know how we make a recommendation for against that. You know, it's not There's no binding thing to it other than a sense of the meeting is, as council said in the memo. And I could care either way if the sense of the meeting gets voted on or not, I guess because it's just the sense of the meeting. 00:21:39,470 S4: Right? 00:21:39,869 S2: I you know, it's not it's not a financial impact. It's not a bylaw. It's not a binding thing. So it boils down to everyone's. 00:21:48,029 S16: Personal opinion on how they feel about turf, and who are we to push someone in a direction on their personal opinion, on turf or no turf? 00:21:54,970 S7: Right. 00:21:55,230 S16: It's almost like an abstain across if you. 00:21:57,500 S4: Yeah. Like I don't have an opinion about whether you want to vote on. I think there's. 00:22:02,470 S2: I mean, we could say that if the board we could say the select board neither recommends or speaks against this action. 00:22:11,099 S4: Right. Like if you want to. I think my concern with all of these in aggregate is the I mean, for anybody who was at the the town meeting where we vote on this, like no one who vehemently voted for it was confused about the fact that it was turf. They knew that it was turf. That's what the recommendations at the what's the meetings had been about. And so it feels like a lot of tomfoolery and like well-meaning but like Monday morning quarterbacking to say, like we're now going to take a step back and try to switch around these things that actually have a downstream impact on everything about the project, right? The size, the budget, the scope. Nobody has said anything to me about also doing like fertilizer studies and runoff water around live green grass fields and the impact of fertilizer. It's like it's so myopically focused on this one particular thing and there and I just worry that like, right. 00:23:05,029 S2: Or studying Pingree Field. 00:23:06,329 S4: Yeah, there's all these things that sort of feel like they're pulling on the threads of a sweater, and the same folks that have worked really hard to get this through. Like, there wasn't confusion about what we were trying to pass and it passed. And from an optics perspective. Like whether I agree or disagree. Like it feels like I'm challenging the town on the decision that it made. And there's a lot of vitriol and anger about how this has been handled. And I worry that if we then say we stand behind this like we couldn't even explain, like the reasons why the stabilization fund had nothing to do with our support of that project. 00:23:40,329 S10: Right? 00:23:40,900 S4: So there's no world in which I can say, like, we support any of these articles without it being interpreted as us once again standing in the way of something that the entire town, end quote, voted for. Yeah, right. And I it it does feel like tomfoolery, even though I know that's not what it is. I know it's well-meaning, but it's like the vote was last year and it was a turf field, and we can say it wasn't in the motion or it wasn't there. And it's like, but everybody knew. Nobody was confused. 00:24:08,769 S7: Right. 00:24:09,500 S4: And I don't I don't know what to do with that. Now. 00:24:13,299 S10: If I could make another comment, um, In the finca is going to formally vote on this on Wednesday. We really haven't talked about the the petitions because we were hoping to get some more information tonight. But anyway, to my earlier point, um. 00:24:31,269 S10: It's it's fair to give folks an opportunity to discuss this, but as I read through all three of these and as I listened to conversations around it with town council and council and other folks, my understanding is that, um, we can't go back and change the vote, but the school committee has control of this project as we speak, and I believe the school committee could make adjustments to the project. They could decide they're not going to do turf and they're going to do grass fields. So I believe they have that ability because we've given them the funding I believe they have the ability now to do that, so that the voters of the town don't have the ability. Right. I think that's fair, but the school committee does. 00:25:25,970 S4: Um, but where was this participation during the ten years of the process is my question. Why now? Why? 00:25:32,869 S10: I completely. 00:25:33,670 S4: Get it. In fact. 00:25:34,500 S10: I completely get it. All I'm saying is, this is a big project. It has a number of aspects, and it's fine to have a conversation. Yeah, I don't see that these three articles have. Have any have any, um, have any impact on the decision that's been made. But the school committee can they could adjust the project going forward. But anyway. 00:26:08,299 S15: Yeah. And I also I mean, this is a lot has changed in the last ten years. I mean this is a very hot button issue. You've got what it went on in the vineyard. You've got other towns passing moratoriums. It's, you know, in some sense, I actually I do think that even though it had been going on and I agree that most people voting for it knew exactly what they were voting for. Um, it wasn't really a topic of discussion at the at the town meeting, and I personally think it's a very appropriate discussion just because, you know, it's it was it was really focused more on the money. And in retrospect, I'm actually glad it went down the way it did, because these articles are not doing anything to take the funding away. And now it can actually focus on, okay, we've got a lot of money that's been dedicated to the project, but how do we do it in a way that you know the best possible way as well as, you know, it's consistent with, you know, we're now a green community. We're you know, we can't just pay lip service to potential environmental Concerns. And I would just. I'd hate to have a project this size where we're on the back end of trends. If everyone's starting to reconvert, you know, turf fields into grass fields and is there another way to do it? Um, I think to a certain extent, I remember this came up. I can't remember if it was actually in town meeting or a discussion with, uh, the superintendent, but it was it was sort of left open, you know, what the infill was going to be and whether it was going to be organic or not. And, you know, now I think it's, you know, I think it's right to actually question, you know, what, what the actual specifics are for this project. Um, and I can sort of see them as being consistent as opposed to, you know, I think the wording of the article certainly makes it seem like you're sort of going back on it by, by changing the wording of it. But I think it's more of, you know, making it clear that we're not taking money away from the project. 00:28:04,130 S7: I don't. 00:28:04,470 S9: Think people are worried about. 00:28:05,529 S4: That. I think they're worried about we already took out the money. We're paying $400,000 in interest on the money, and this will delay the project. It delays the scope. It goes back on. If we have to have multiple fields to to, that means we take away the girls, you know, soccer field like the scope of the project now changes and all the schematics. And again I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I think it's I don't think we can say like it isn't about, you know, it's it is it's about stopping this where it is and saying like, hold up. We need to revisit that. And I think that's where I feel really conflicted, because people are so mad about what it looks like we're doing at this point. Well, let's get I mean, we're I mean, everybody up here is getting like my personal cell phone, my email, like I'm getting vitriolic, awful messages from people about this. Like, what are y'all doing? Like, what is your problem? Why can't you go through the process and. 00:28:58,099 S10: Stick with it? And that's it's unfortunate that you're getting all the negative stuff, but the core issue is health of the community. Yeah, and that's what's driving the conversation. If it was some other issue, I would probably side with what you're saying. So the fact that people are misbehaving, that's you can set that aside. But what's the core issue here is PFAS and health of the community and the rivers and sort of so that's I have no problem having that conversation and giving everyone an opportunity to vet that. That's. But at the end of the day, the school committee can digest this and they can make a decision. 00:29:47,400 S2: Right? The balls more in their court. 00:29:49,500 S10: The ball is in their court. That's what I believe. Unless I'm way off, way off base. 00:29:55,400 S8: Has anybody reached out? Excuse me, to the superintendent or the school committee to see if proactively in response ahead of town meeting, anything new was developed in the last 12 months? Not really ten years, because we did. They did talk about infill and products and organics and bamboo and all sorts of stuff, you know, to prevent or to mitigate, I guess, so they can come and maybe speak to it, because otherwise we're just going to have a discussion back and forth and a lot of yelling and nothing could happen. But if there was an update, maybe that addressed some of the concerns and maybe that's the position we take is we encourage a discussion. But I do think they address the health issue at town meeting, you know, not in detail. And I don't know what new what has happened in the last year, ten years for sure. But it was discussed infill products and and plastics and the blades and all of that. 00:30:43,829 S7: I know the proponents, at least it was reported to us that they tried to appear before the school committee and were not permitted to. Um, but, um. 00:30:56,630 S7: I think I'm where Carolyn is right now. Um, yeah. The school committee should be having this discussion, but, Um, I don't see how we could vote in favor or against any of these petitions. That sort of has to be. They are what they are. They're asking the question, and people have to answer for themselves. 00:31:15,670 S8: Well, maybe a letter from the select board to the school board to encourage, you know, a discussion to update, you know, concerns that have elevated in the last three months, you know, prior to town meeting, or ask if they wish to have further discussion during during town meeting and present, you know, findings on pros and cons, turf to grass and health concerns, uh, financial concerns, all of it. Well, I mean, I think it's just going to be a. 00:31:46,099 S10: Yeah, every time I've, I've spoken to Eric Tracy about, um, presenting information at town meeting, he's more than happy to do that. 00:31:53,599 S8: Yeah. 00:31:54,200 S10: And every and every time we have a school building committee meeting, um, or the budget quintuple board meetings this year. He's more than happy to give an update. Um, and he's been. Uh, so I'm sure he would be more than happy. And he will give an update on both projects, the fields project and the schools project. Um, so he's. 00:32:20,130 S8: Yeah. No. 00:32:21,230 S10: That's how I always will. 00:32:22,730 S8: Yeah. I'm just wondering if he'd be willing to address these petitions and kind of just counter that, you know, with where, you know, the school stands at this point knowing all this is going on. Yeah. 00:32:33,170 S5: I'd I'd back up what John says, I'm sure, particularly if he's asked. But I think he'll probably be prepared to answer questions even if he's not asked. 00:32:41,230 S8: Um, yeah. I think if we ask it, it it's a good move for the select board, you know, to represent concerns that we're getting, whether it's blowing up our personal form, uh, phones or a petition. It shows that we're reacting. 00:32:57,099 S8: That's just my thoughts. I know you guys. 00:33:03,170 S8: But I do know I'm a little weary about setting a precedent as well, about coming back around after something voted at a town meeting where things were discussed. I get the open forum and discussion, um, and always coming back. I'd measure twice and then we cut. Right. So um, but I but if if we were to put in a letter we, you know, we don't advocate and things and I don't know, I have a problem doing that out of the gate right now without hearing. 00:33:30,230 S2: I worry about setting precedents. And it's okay that come back. If you're not happy about a town meeting, vote. 00:33:35,970 S5: Well, I think council's opinion on these articles is reflects that in the particularly around the second article. Yeah. Do you want to get that up there? Yes. 00:33:47,470 S11: Sure. Thank you. With respect to the second petitioned article, which is article 3-5 in the warrant package, um, In this one, the Citizens Petition seeks to amend the vote taken under article 2023, slash 452 to essentially add a condition with respect to the funding of the project, that it cannot basically be used for the funding of an artificial turf field. The reference to the article in the petition, or to the from the prior town meeting in 2023 is incorrect. I don't think that's fatal, however, to the article as it appears to just be a typographical error. And they did include in a footnote the actual language from article 2020 342 Dash 14, which was the article voted and approved by town Meeting to fund the project. And as you may recall, this is a school debt that was undertaken by the by vote of the Regional School committee. Town meetings role as a member in the regional school district is to simply approve the debt that was incurred by the school district. There was also a debt exclusion vote under proposition two and a half, which passed at the ballot box. It's my understanding that the district has already borrowed 10 million to date, out of the $15 million that were authorized, and has engaged Gale associates to begin the design of the project, which is my understanding, is pretty close to complete at this point. Um, at this point, in my opinion, which is also backed up by an opinion from bond counsel that this vote essentially has no effect. Um, under town meeting time, uh, there's limitations on rescinding or otherwise amending votes that were taken by town meeting. Specifically, when a vote is self-executing, for example, you cannot undo the vote at a later town meeting. Similarly, where action cannot be taken without affecting the rights of third parties when their rights have already vested, you cannot undo that action here. The projects are borrowing has already taken place. The bonds have been issued with respect to this project. So at this point there is no ability to affect essentially the funding mechanism for the project. It's it's done and done. 00:36:29,969 S2: This one's a little more straightforward for me. 00:36:32,170 S16: Yeah. 00:36:32,969 S2: And I, I would recommend unfavorable action on it just because it sets precedent to go back and reinvent the wheel basically. 00:36:45,099 S5: Could I add to that? Yeah. It's you're right. It sets a precedent. But it also it makes it seem like town meeting can do something that it cannot do. So to recommend anything other than unfavorable action leaves it open to interpretation that maybe they could do that. If the vote were to pass, we couldn't do it anyway, right? We're not legally allowed to do what it asks us to do. 00:37:11,469 S2: Right. So we've already bonded the money, etc.. It's it's already moving forward. 00:37:20,699 S8: Is that accurate? I mean, I know the money's bonded, but have the RFPs and and the scope of work and what, what ingredients and materials are to be used is the. 00:37:29,699 S5: The scope is still being worked out and they've still got got to go out to bid for the contractor. But they have engaged an engineer and started and paid for the design of the field under the terms of the borrowing. So they've they've initiated, they've already contracted. And um, if, if the school committee did choose to change the scope now, that would, that would likely change the price. Just just starting off with having to change the design. 00:37:53,130 S7: Right? 00:37:56,300 S8: You know, I'm with Sean on this. It's a little more straightforward than the others for me to prohibit something where if we took a poll in town and said, what did you vote on? You know, I think most people would say an artificial turf field. You know, just buy. Right. And to come back around and say, oh, no, we prohibit artificial turf field. I mean, I would think that's the general consensus. Let's do it. 00:38:17,369 S14: Right. 00:38:20,329 S2: Um, feel free to chime in, but I was just going to say with the first one, three, four, I mean, we can kind of come back to that one, but if if people feel it three, five is a little bit more straightforward for them. We could vote on a recommendation for it now and then come back to three four and move on to three six and then come back to three four because it's a little bit more vague, up to the will of the board. 00:38:48,199 S8: Does anyone feel I should be, you know, a bucket is together. 00:38:53,429 S17: I'm not sure if you noticed, but Jay Butler has his hand raised on the zoom here. 00:38:57,969 S5: I can't see everybody now because. 00:38:59,530 S2: Thank you. Jay, if you're, uh, you can unmute. If you if you can and you can speak. 00:39:03,099 S8: Yeah, yeah. This is Jay Butler. 00:39:05,230 S6: Um. Could you. My question is, can you advance the copy of the warrant so I can read the 3-5? Sure. It was stuck on three. Four. 00:39:16,969 S5: Sorry. Jay, I'm trying to multitask and obviously failing. 00:39:22,630 S6: Okay, now I see it. 00:39:29,170 S8: I'd be curious if you have something to add on this one. 00:39:32,170 S10: Yeah, I don't I, I, I personally agree with council that I don't. Yeah I don't see how you go back and change a vote. I just I don't know. Um again we have we haven't voted on it but I don't I don't see how you how do you do that? 00:39:52,369 S2: Well, if this one do we want to vote on this one? Do we want to discuss this? Okay. So I'd, I'd entertain a motion for a recommendation. 00:40:00,630 S7: Uh. 00:40:01,769 S4: Do you want me to move to approve or recommend or move? Not to. 00:40:04,570 S7: Record. 00:40:05,269 S2: Whatever you. 00:40:05,670 S8: Want. Just move to recommend. 00:40:07,969 S4: All right. I move to recommend article 3-5 as. 00:40:15,030 S9: Outlined in the ATM. 00:40:17,230 S5: What do you recommend. 00:40:19,070 S14: For. 00:40:19,670 S5: Your recommend action regulation? 00:40:21,570 S4: That's what I'm asking. So do I want to just recommend. 00:40:23,699 S2: I would say if you're leaning towards not favorable action I would say that in your motion, just make it cleaner. 00:40:28,829 S7: Uh. 00:40:30,230 S4: I move that the select board take unfavorable action recommend. Yeah. Recommend unfavorable action on article three five as outlined in the ATM board. 00:40:42,469 S2: All right. Second by anybody. 00:40:45,769 S16: Second. 00:40:46,300 S2: Good. All right. Any further discussion? I think we've kind of had it. Unless anybody wants to say anything else. 00:40:52,170 S8: Yeah, I think we had it. 00:40:53,269 S2: All right. All those in favor of not in favor say aye. Aye aye aye. All right. 00:41:00,869 S9: Do we have to have. 00:41:03,369 S4: Recommendations for the, uh, 3-4 to the earlier conversation? Like this isn't this isn't something where it feels appropriate to recommend or not recommend. It has it's not a policy and or tax like. Could we just say. 00:41:21,900 S5: On on any of the articles. You could we. 00:41:23,829 S2: Can, we could say whatever we want. 00:41:25,230 S4: What could we just delete it. Can there just be nothing there. 00:41:28,099 S2: Make no recommendation. We could just say the Select board makes no recommendation. 00:41:31,300 S5: Okay. 00:41:31,699 S2: Yeah. 00:41:32,429 S4: I feel like Ben Khan feels the same way about that one. Well, the other. 00:41:36,570 S8: Discussion is what they were saying, which I would vote. I think that's a good thing to say as well. We encourage further discussion. 00:41:42,170 S2: Because for me, it's Kind of really here nor there if the meeting feels one way or the other. 00:41:49,599 S4: Right? Is the because ultimately just to confirm, it's literally saying like, do you recommend that people get to cast a vote for whether they like turf, right? If you sure you want to take a little Qualtrics quiz at the top of the hour. Like, have at it. Right. 00:42:06,269 S7: Um. 00:42:08,199 S2: So does the select board feel that we want to make no recommendation? 00:42:15,070 S16: I would say no recommendation. 00:42:16,300 S14: No recommendation. 00:42:17,130 S2: Okay. Did you just make a motion, Tom? 00:42:19,969 S16: So I'll make a motion that the select board make no recommendation on article three. Dash 43344444. 00:42:31,170 S2: Now I'm sorry. I'm looking at three four. I got an outdated version. I apologize to the folks in the audience at home. 00:42:35,469 S4: I'll second the motion. 00:42:36,800 S2: All right. Uh, all those in favor of not recommending any action Or I'm not making any recommendations. Sorry. 00:42:46,570 S16: So how does that work? So will it show us, like the select board makes no recommendation five zero whatever? Or is it just going to sit there. 00:42:55,429 S4: And then whoever does it makes the motion. We'll just say, right. 00:42:59,170 S2: We can stand up and say, we didn't feel like we wanted to stop the sense of the meeting. 00:43:03,329 S16: So yeah. 00:43:04,429 S2: Everyone gets their voice heard at town meeting. So there it is. 00:43:07,469 S16: Yeah. 00:43:07,829 S2: Makes sense. All right, so you made a motion. Was there a second on it? Okay. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye. Okay. On to, uh. 00:43:17,929 S4: Three. 00:43:18,199 S2: Six. Three. Is it six still? Three. Six. Three. Six. All right. Uh. And this one is, uh. Sorry. I'm in my wrong position. General bylaw amendment, moratorium on artificial turf fields. 00:43:35,329 S9: Um. 00:43:38,230 S2: And this is basically seeking to adopt a general bylaw imposing a three year moratorium on the installation of artificial turf fields on any public land in the town, including land owned or leased by the school district. Mr. MacKinnon. 00:43:54,300 S11: Thank you. So this article seeks to impose a moratorium for a three year period with respect to the approval or installation of turf fields on public property. Um, so there's a few issues with this article. First, I don't think I've ever seen a moratorium in the context of a general bylaw. You see them typically in the zoning context, so it's somewhat unusual to see a moratorium. However, in light of the generally broad powers towns have with respect to regulating issues of public health and safety. It probably would be acceptable from the attorney general's perspective. But again, I haven't seen that the issue is really more, in my opinion. One of timing. Um, again, we're talking about a project that was already voted and approved by town meeting last year. $10 million has already been borrowed. An engineer has been engaged to design the project. By the time that this bylaw is approved by the Attorney General's office, it's quite likely that town that the school will or the school field project will already be under construction. And at that point, it does not appear to me that would be enforceable. Certainly, with respect to the authorization, that would not be likely enforceable, since the authorization will have definitely been given by the time that this article is approved by town meeting. And ultimately, assuming it gets approved by the Attorney General's office, which will likely take place sometime in the summer. So I think it's one of, again, timing with respect to whether or not it's enforceable. Um, but, uh, from a legal perspective, it probably would be legal to or permissible to adopt a moratorium as a, as a general bylaw, although it's not something that you typically see. 00:45:54,800 S2: And, Tom, even if timing wasn't the main issue, I mean, there's other issues with it. But even if the I mean, the project's been voted, it's been bonded, it's been more or less permitted and construction has started. Even if that moratorium did happen. Would this project still be it would be grandfathered in anyway. Wouldn't it? 00:46:20,699 S11: Or so. Right. 00:46:22,670 S2: It would be on a new turf field other than this turf. 00:46:25,300 S11: Right? Most likely because at that point, again, that's really the timing issue. So this is a general bylaw as opposed to a zoning bylaw. So as you may know, general bylaws are effective. Once town meeting votes to approve a general bylaw, it then goes up to the Attorney General's Office for review. The Attorney General's office has 90 days. They often take longer than that as well, but by statute, at least 90 days to review a bylaw. Once the attorney general approves it, assuming that they don't find any conflicts with state law or other constitutional issues, it then is they send a determination letter. And once that takes place, the bylaw would then become effective upon publication of posting by the Town Clerk in accordance with General Laws. Chapter 40, section 32. So general bylaws do not become effective until they've actually been posted. Unlike a zoning bylaw, which relates back to the date of town meeting. So, um, that's really, you know, one of the big issues with respect to this is but there are other issues with respect to just general enforceability of this type of a bylaw, law, but ultimately by the time the bylaw is approved, it's quite likely that the project will already be under construction and will certainly have been authorized at that point. 00:47:44,670 S16: Right. 00:47:46,469 S2: All right. Comments. Questions from our board or. 00:47:51,369 S10: I mean, my thought on this is, um, this would have no impact on the school project, you know, cutting to the chase, right? Because it was voted last year. And even if procedurally everything fell into place, it's very similar to three five in that you can't go back and and change. 00:48:11,769 S2: Right? I think to your point, John, even if the, even if the Will of town meeting said we want this moratorium, it still wouldn't affect this project. 00:48:20,000 S10: That that would be my read. And I'm not an attorney at all. But that's that's how I that's how I read it as, as I went through it. So again. 00:48:30,099 S8: Is the intent of this article to impact the current study or any future before it's looked into. 00:48:37,469 S10: I think what we heard from Mr. Shields is the one who came to our meeting of the night. This is a belt and suspenders. These chums. I think that he actually said that. Did he? He did? Yeah. He tried to do the best he could to construct. Um. 00:48:52,230 S2: Yeah. Offense voice tonight, would you? Would you say that it's for this current project, in any future project that might happen in that three year? 00:49:03,570 S13: This is why I wanted to hear Tom's opinion. Um, it was our intent that it would affect the current project. Um, there are several bills before the legislature right now, um, that, um, are looking to ban artificial turf throughout the Commonwealth. Um, the way they're worded is, is kind of like what Tom had suggested is that, um, any project that's already in place, um, would not be affected until, say, the turf war out. And then ten years later, you couldn't, you know, put new turf in. I think it was our intent and our hope that this would affect this particular one, because that's that's what we're looking at. Um, but obviously, if it sounds like if it does get voted and goes to the, um, uh, to the state that, um, future projects, if they wanted to put the turf, say, down at um Patent Park or something, that would be affected, but. 00:50:04,070 S2: Um, in that three year timeframe. 00:50:05,929 S13: Exactly. But but, uh, at the same time, we, we appreciate the opportunity to be able to, uh, to take a reading on how people feel at town meeting about it. All right. Okay. 00:50:17,099 S2: Thank you. Jay. 00:50:23,300 S2: Does anybody want to. 00:50:24,369 S8: Just it's kind of redundant to 3.4-4, but takes it one step further and and freezes any other projects. That's how I read it. Like the first one impacts the current project, you know. And then this last one is kind of like stopping any future stuff from coming in and growing. So I kind of lumped this in with 3.4. Then our same kind of maybe we vote for no recommendation. 00:50:53,429 S8: What do we want to direct any studies from? Zoning bylaws were mentioned. Is there anything we want to do as a town to further take a pulse, or reading on some of the claims on safety and injury and all of that before we do something, a patent park or somewhere else? 00:51:16,630 S8: There's there's no other private group looking, right? Like. 00:51:20,230 S2: I mean, I, I would say we we don't have any additional turf projects on the horizon. Yeah, that's definitely so I think it's mute. I mean, I would recommend not favorable action on this one, but it's up to the will of the rest of the folks sitting here just because I think it's mute. 00:51:37,769 S5: Yeah. The moratorium is only is only related to public or artificial turf on all public land within the town. So it wouldn't even. 00:51:44,699 S2: Extend. 00:51:45,070 S5: To put. 00:51:45,269 S2: It another field if they wanted to, or some other entity could iron rail or something like that. But that's in Wenham. But and I think I mean being a prize of the current project, I mean, it's been being talked about for 20 years, and in the last ten years it's been being worked on, and I don't see another project coming from start to finish in a three year moratorium. And in that time, I think there would be a lot more involvement in health and safety and materials and stuff in that time period, with all the new information that's trying to be figured out. 00:52:28,469 S8: So I move that we recommend unfavorable action on article three six. 00:52:32,329 S2: All right. Second by anybody. 00:52:47,130 S2: We can second it and then discuss it. And then. 00:52:49,929 S4: I'll second. I'll second it. 00:52:51,570 S8: So what other options would you consider. 00:53:00,099 S4: I don't disagree that as a town. 00:53:06,530 S4: My focus right now is that the order of operations of this is a nightmare like. And I said that from beginning like all of this is just like, do I think we're going to be on the wrong side of history with turf? I'm not sure that we won't be like, I, I don't want it to sound like I don't think these are concerns, I think. You know, this one in isolation to say like, hey, after this project, like, let's take some time and put together a group and like figure out, like in the 8 to 10 years of this field is here. Like, what should be next and what should we shouldn't do and like actually take the time to do it. Yeah. In in a vacuum. I think that's a I think that's a great idea. We should all because right now from what I've observed of the conversations happening online, which is again a vacuum, nobody is listening to the other side, right? Everybody has their own studies, their own experts, their own everything. And it's just it's a hot mess. What I am candidly afraid of. And we can all talk about what a coward I am, is that if we do anything here, it it just looks again, like I said, that we're just trying to, like, screw with the outcome of what the town voted for and that we're trying to take a back door to, like, trying to stop things. And I just hate the optics of it. I hate everything about it. I hate that, like, this is a it's a great idea To to have this conversation. But it's so associated with trying to backpedal on this other thing that it feels very uncomfortable to me. 00:54:30,869 S2: Right. If it was, if it was different scenario, same in intention, even though the original intention was to stop this project. But if the intention was more stop future projects without study. 00:54:43,230 S14: Right. 00:54:44,369 S2: That would be more palatable. Right? Right. 00:54:47,769 S16: Yeah. 00:54:48,469 S4: Because again, like, as I remember, like the cons. Com even looked at the turf field project two years ago. Like it went through the channel. 00:54:58,969 S2: Through. 00:54:59,099 S4: The. It's it wasn't like it was like a fly by night. Like nobody knew what was happening. And so now I'm like, we're basically saying none of those people did their due diligence or their jobs, right? Nobody made the correct recommendation. Nobody had the right conversations. And I think that's a that's a dangerous thing to say when we know that it went through those channels. 00:55:15,869 S2: Right. 00:55:16,400 S4: Yeah. Maybe not to the satisfaction or I mean, as we know, in town government like people pay attention after something that they disagree happens. But. 00:55:25,400 S2: Right. Yeah. And I get your sentiment. I think that though right now we have to vote with the original intent of the petitioners. 00:55:33,070 S16: Yeah. And this one feels similar. 00:55:34,670 S2: To even though we may feel more look into it has to happen before the end of the life of this field once it's built, because we will be replacing it in ten years. So what is that process in the next ten years, and how we look at it and assess what the state's doing, what the right the whole country is doing, everything else. 00:55:54,030 S16: So yeah, I was going to say this feels just like somewhat of three dash for the it's a temperature check really of the select board of what. Where are we for turf. Are we against turf. And it seems like regardless of what we recommend, whether it passes or it doesn't pass, it doesn't seem that it's going to be any major impact. Regardless. 00:56:08,699 S2: It's not gonna have any impact really. 00:56:10,030 S16: Yeah. And so it's just whether, you know, they're gonna whatever it is, it's, you know, it's Caroline said. It's the optics of like, oh, well, they don't support the turf and they do support the turf. And I think it's, you know, the bill's point earlier, I think we assembled A34. We we make no opinion of it. And people can vote the way they want to vote if they're anti-terror for for turf and get their opinion heard. But it's not going to have any real impact. Yeah. 00:56:35,170 S13: Mr. chair, if I may, I'd just like to say that I take exception to the idea that this is something new, that, you know, that we should have brought up sooner because, uh, the, uh, the studies and the research that's being done on PFAS and artificial turf, it's it's it's going at a freight train rate. Um, so a lot of what you're hearing from us now is things that have just been discovered in the last couple of years, or even in the last couple of months, it's moving ahead at a tremendous pace. So I just want to, you know, make that point that this isn't something that, uh, we're we're just trying to change everything all of a sudden know things are changing and they're changing rapidly. And that's why we put these petitions out. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 00:57:22,929 S2: Thank you. 00:57:29,329 S18: Susan Lawrence, 105 Rock Maple. Now, I'd just like to make one other point. I don't think that anyone who's on the other side of this, if you're talking about the other side being natural grass, is trying to stop this project. No one is trying to stop the project. The money is there. We want to see it go forward. We want the kids to have the best fields of any town anywhere. So just, you know, on that topic, it's just that I think there's a lot of concern. There's a lot of coming out about PFAS and about cancer causing things in this turf. And, you know, I won't I won't go any further on that. 00:58:04,269 S2: Thank you sir. 00:58:09,500 S2: And come any comments. 00:58:12,769 S10: I mean, these are pretty contentious. Just, um, discussions. Um, I, I think we're going to spend some time Wednesday night on these three articles. We may decide to vote on all the other plain vanilla articles tonight, but, um, I want to give the income a chance to, you know, convene and discuss these three, uh, before we make the votes. 00:58:35,369 S2: So let me put it in the spot. Didn't work. 00:58:36,969 S5: So. Oh, yeah. 00:58:38,530 S19: Well, yeah, I mean, no, because again. 00:58:41,369 S10: We wanted to benefit by. 00:58:44,030 S2: Yeah. 00:58:44,400 S10: Oh yeah. The full conversation and all the commentary and then let it digest because again, what we're, what we're doing, uh, just to speak for the income is we're actually memorializing our thoughts in paper in detail, and we spend hours preparing that commentary. I want to give the think I'm a chance to do that because, you know, it's there in writing forever. Um, so anyway. But again, all the other one, most of the other Warren articles I think are pretty cut and dry tonight, so that would be my thought. 00:59:17,500 S2: This is a side note, but related to Caroline's point earlier. You know, it's like the lesser of two evils is the maintenance of a natural turf field with pesticides and chemicals and fertilizers going into the miles, river, etc.. 00:59:34,630 S5: Right. 00:59:35,300 S2: Equal to or as bad as or, etc., you know, and I don't and I don't know if, you know, the school would use to I think Susan said that. Would they use organic, would they use what everybody else is using. You know, maintenance and rotation of fields, etc. it makes it really complicated when, you know, majority of our teams, every field that they play on, besides Hamilton is on a turf field, right? You know, and when we do we can't use our fields. We are renting turf fields from other schools. Yeah. You know, we couldn't have a lot of games the last couple of years in track, etc. at our school because we don't have the facilities. 01:00:15,570 S10: So yeah, it. 01:00:16,500 S2: Makes it tricky. 01:00:18,170 S10: If you go back in time and we wrote this last year that there were three studies that Gail did going back ten years. All three of them said do a phased project over time. Don't do this all at once. So they said that three different times. Um, and that would have required, you know, the committee to come to town meeting three times to get money. So the experts said, why don't you do this over a decade, not do it all at once? Um, if we had done that as a community, we probably would have been able to be very effective at flushing out these issues, or listening or giving people more time to recommend how we spend $15 million, you know? So unfortunately, the history of the project is long and long and winding road. But we didn't even listen to the experts on how to do this. We just said, okay, it's been ten years, let's get it done. You know? So, I mean, there's a lot of history and I'm not I haven't been involved in it, but, um, I unfortunately the votes been made, um, people knew it was turf. And my view is the school committee owns this. And I think, you know, they can make some decisions on our behalf, but that doesn't preclude having a healthy conversation. So I know I'm on my I know I'm on my soapbox for good. 01:02:02,599 S2: No, I think you're accurate. 01:02:03,730 S7: You're an I, um, to add to that, I keep going around and around in my head because of finance and advisory committee. And, you know, we give advice on we're asked to give advice on all topics. But honestly, I don't feel educated enough on this to say we should stop the turf fields or we should go forward with the turf fields. It takes some kind of expert that I am not. And so my inclination at this point is to give no recommendation because, I mean, when we've had people in to talk about it, but it would take a lot more education for me to feel, um, comfortable saying, um, you know, put a halt to it or don't put a halt to it. Um, so, yeah, I think that's where I am right now. 01:02:47,429 S15: I do think this is just an inherently it's a very personal, you know, opinion and preference, and it makes it hard for committees and to give opinions when there is no necessarily right answer. Um. 01:03:03,429 S7: I mean, it's hard. I mean, eventually I guess we'll have science that says maybe this was not a problem or it is a big problem. 01:03:10,269 S15: So trends and everything like that. 01:03:12,030 S7: It's hard to say, you know, go ahead. When the danger is there that it's going to be a terrible decision. Yeah I just don't know. Sorry. 01:03:19,369 S8: Jay. You used the word freight train. I mean, somebody is. We need information. I agree with everything you just said. Do we have that? Here's what we've learned in the last year. This freight train of information. Is there something new that is glaring? And it's science, not opinion, that would lead someone to make a different decision than was made last year. Do we have that information? Is that something your group has? 01:03:41,530 S13: It is. 01:03:42,170 S8: So. Well, we you share that with Joe and us. 01:03:45,900 S13: We'd be pleased to do that. I mean, I was under the impression that tonight was not the place to disagree. We've been over this again and again. 01:03:53,369 S8: Yeah. Well, yes. I mean, I would like to see it at least, even if we don't go over now, that'd be good information to digest. 01:04:00,070 S13: I'd love to show it to you. 01:04:01,230 S8: All right. 01:04:01,670 S13: Okay. I'll call you. 01:04:05,269 S8: But that's why initially when I made the motion, I just don't feel like I have the expertise to say yay or nay, which would almost lead you to say we can't impact what was done, but we can kind of take the foot off the pedal a little bit on future stuff. That's why I was asking, is there a pipeline? Things coming through? I don't see anything in the next three years, so I don't know how valid a three year moratorium is, but should we initiate any further findings on new facts that have come in that might lead us to a different decision in the future? 01:04:34,269 S5: Well, I think aside from the separate citizen petition articles for this warrant in this town meeting, the Select Board can absolutely take under advisement the idea of putting together some kind of a study group or something for future projects, to make recommendations to the Select board in a town meeting for future actions. Um, I think that Jay's right. A lot has been developing quickly in terms of the information and the the data and the research into it. On one hand. On the other hand, a lot of things have been stated and then paused, for instance. A lot of people looking at the EPA has had leaked that what their recommendations are going to be for new acceptable measurements for PFAS, and yet they have done nothing in almost a year now to move that forward and actually put it into place, I think largely because it's really hard to say this one thing or that one thing is the cause of the PFOA that's in the environment. Now PFAS comes off of, you know, plastics and other man made materials that have been leaking into our environment for over 50 years. So it's going to be really difficult for the EPA or the DEP or anybody else to say, oh, this is the source problem. We've got to stop it there. So they haven't finalized their rules and they haven't finalized their regulations because how are they going to enforce it? They. I don't think they know yet. 01:06:06,269 S8: Fair enough. 01:06:07,269 S17: One one question I had on this is has the I got the name on the Environmental Impact Committee. Do they have an opinion on this space? 01:06:17,969 S5: So the Environmental Impact Committee is was organized by the Select Board as a response to the, um, the article a couple of years ago that the Select Board put forward to, uh, you know, to put a pause and make the town go carbon neutral. The biggest part of what the committee is supposed to do is make recommendations to the Select Board on policy and recommendations to the town government on operations for getting towards that, um, you know, carbon neutral by 2040. So make recommendations to us. 01:06:51,900 S2: Right, right. Not necessarily a turf field, but more operational, as Joe said, like our our fleets, um, you know, lighting stuff like that. That's that's making the municipal part of the town. 01:07:04,469 S7: I'm just going to mention for the record that that was Harry Philip, who asked the question. 01:07:07,630 S2: Yeah. Thanks for asking me. 01:07:08,500 S19: Yeah, thanks. 01:07:12,070 S2: Um, so to rewind it back. Did you make a motion, Bill? And it was for. 01:07:19,699 S5: It was. 01:07:20,769 S2: Favorable action. 01:07:21,769 S5: It was for unfavorable action. 01:07:23,429 S8: Uh, I mean, since it wasn't second, I mean, I think I'm. 01:07:26,500 S2: I seconded you seconded it. You did. Okay. Yeah. 01:07:29,369 S8: I don't know. I'm kind of lumping this in with three. Four. 01:07:31,769 S2: Yeah. I mean, but I guess for me, I roll back onto it. 01:07:38,630 S2: I understand you're thinking of the intention as it has morphed tonight, but the original intention is to stop the project. I, I, I guess I would lean more towards voting on favorable action other than not recommending any either way. Because It's it's it's too far from what we're wanting it to be, to say you're neutral on it. Do you know what I mean? No. Just because I mean, if it was if it was a different article and it said, we want to stop and take the time to study this over the next three years for any future projects that come up or, you know, the carpeting of the field or something like that, and charge the school committee who is the actual owner of the project, to do so, which, even though it really couldn't be because you can't enforce your will on an elected board. 01:08:34,930 S19: Right. 01:08:35,899 S2: You know, but with the original intent, I'm still leaning in that unfavorable action. 01:08:45,869 S8: Yeah. If the intent was to impact current projects. 01:08:48,270 S19: That would be great. 01:08:48,970 S2: And and and it won't. So. 01:08:50,869 S19: Right. 01:08:53,100 S2: Tom, I saw the wheels turning over there for a second. 01:08:56,199 S16: Yeah, I'm still sort of in the, um, not recommending any action camp. I still feel, you know, I see that side of it, but I do still, still think that regardless of what the vote is, it doesn't seem that there's going to be any impact whether the town improves it or doesn't approve it. And to me, it just feels like a temperature check that, you know, we're either voting yes or no on turf fields. 01:09:20,729 S2: And I will add that whatever I say on my recommendation. Most of the people at town meeting are going to vote the way they're going to vote, whether they agree with me or not. That's why they're showing up. So, you know, my recommendation isn't going to sway them either way. And if it does, you know. 01:09:37,229 S19: You're. 01:09:37,430 S4: More powerful. 01:09:37,930 S19: Than you thought. So yeah. 01:09:40,670 S4: I lay awake at night wondering what you think about all sorts of things. 01:09:46,529 S2: So do you. Do you want to make a vote on it, or do you want to discuss some more? 01:09:51,569 S8: Oh, I mean, I think I'm more comfortable how I initially like recommend. Okay, no action, but encourage further discussion on town floor. Of all of. 01:10:02,899 S19: These voted. 01:10:04,630 S5: You can withdraw. 01:10:05,300 S19: It. 01:10:05,630 S2: You can withdraw your motion. 01:10:06,829 S19: If you want to. 01:10:07,270 S8: I can't just amend it. 01:10:10,869 S2: What would you amend it to recommend? 01:10:13,270 S8: No action. 01:10:15,229 S2: No recommendation. 01:10:16,399 S8: Right? No recommendation. And the position of the Select Board is to encourage further discussion on influence, because we are influencing it if we lean one way or the other. The discussion. 01:10:30,630 S5: So if you want to amend to know no recommendation and the SB encourages what. 01:10:38,069 S8: Well, I mean I'm just elaborating. I want to hear one thing tonight was we want we don't discourage further discussion. You know, in response to the citizens petitions. We want to hear what people have to say, not necessarily try to influence their decision on this. 01:10:58,630 S7: Just the second stand. 01:10:59,569 S4: Or do I need. 01:11:00,069 S19: To reset? 01:11:00,369 S2: You need. 01:11:00,670 S19: Every second. Every second. Okay. 01:11:03,500 S2: Any further discussion? All right. All those in favor say aye. 01:11:08,699 S19: Aye aye. 01:11:09,899 S2: All those opposed say nay. Nay, nay. 01:11:13,930 S19: So you. 01:11:14,899 S8: You'll be thrown off. 01:11:15,930 S4: We recommend. No. 01:11:19,699 S2: I recommend a recommendation which is unfavorable. 01:11:23,369 S19: Got it. Okay. 01:11:24,500 S2: But it won't be listed. I'll be thrown into the ether there. 01:11:27,470 S4: I'm happy to start. 01:11:28,869 S2: I'm just trying to confuse. 01:11:30,369 S19: No rumors. You're live. Yeah. 01:11:35,329 S2: Sorry. Any further discussion on citizen's petition articles? 01:11:44,000 S2: All right. Mister Burnham, thank you for joining us. 01:11:46,569 S19: Thank you. I think the efforts. Great. 01:11:48,069 S8: What do. 01:11:48,699 S19: I. 01:11:48,770 S10: Mean? Thanks, Jay. 01:11:49,500 S8: I encourage petitions. 01:11:51,170 S2: And Miss Lawrence. Thank you. 01:11:53,869 S19: Bill. I'll call you. 01:11:56,170 S8: Thanks, Jay. 01:11:58,170 S2: I'm calling late to dinner. All right. Back to the. 01:12:03,270 S5: Petitions. 01:12:05,300 S8: I asked for information. 01:12:07,170 S2: He encourages information. All right. Um, let's go back to the top of the warrant here. Uh, article 1-1 is just our boilerplate, uh, election of officers. I don't think we need to comment anything on that. Uh, next one, one, two is to accept reports. Standard stuff. 01:12:30,529 S19: Do we have reports? 01:12:33,000 S5: We have all the reports of the committees for the annual report. Um, that no reports have been given verbally at town meetings since at least Covid, maybe even the year before that. I don't think there's been a report given the town time, meeting verbally in at least four years, maybe five years. 01:12:51,829 S2: I did a brief one, but I don't think it was anything substantial. 01:12:55,600 S19: Right? 01:12:56,270 S11: That's my recollection. Generally speaking, we just accept the annual town report. But I think there was at least once there was a free presentation with respect to maybe it was the golden card. 01:13:11,630 S19: I think I did something. 01:13:12,470 S2: With the body, the overlay. But but I would say if Mr. Bowler has been great about encouraging efficient meetings. 01:13:28,000 S2: And and I'm all in favor. In fact, I would suggest that if if fin come. I know you have your book of recommendations, but it meetings in the past before Covid and Mr. bowler was Mr. Efficiency. We did have some enforcement. I would encourage any board of committee that wants a report that we can submit it Um with our our warrant and PDF online so people can read it ahead of time if they'd like to. If Mr. Moderator and everybody else is okay with that, because sometimes it is good to get the kind of state of the Union from whatever boarding committee is, is, is. 01:14:00,970 S19: Going. 01:14:01,369 S2: To be presenting. 01:14:02,069 S10: So is the is the annual report that we've all written or are writing. Is that going to be delivered at town meeting or. 01:14:11,270 S5: No, it's missing one piece I wasn't pointing. 01:14:15,970 S2: I wasn't I'll give it to you tomorrow. 01:14:17,270 S5: Lori I think it's missing one piece. So it's all. It's all but. 01:14:20,000 S19: Ready. I'm just waiting for a couple. Okay. With the outline. 01:14:24,369 S10: Online. 01:14:24,829 S2: I like that you said. Okay. 01:14:26,170 S19: I appreciate that. Okay. 01:14:28,100 S7: So they were saying not not to present them for verbally. 01:14:31,829 S2: Yeah. Won't be presented verbally. So. But if there's something else that's not included in your annual town report or. 01:14:38,470 S19: We. 01:14:38,630 S10: Put the whole kitchen sink in there. 01:14:40,170 S19: Yeah, yeah. 01:14:41,600 S3: All right, that's fine. 01:14:42,899 S2: Um, articles for consent motion. I think we should kind of run through and earmark as we go. Ones that we think would be consent. And then we can confer with, uh, counsel if they can be on the consent based on whether they're simple majority or not. 01:14:59,569 S19: I don't think there's much here. 01:15:01,229 S11: I actually did take a look at last year's script to see which ones were. So I do have kind of a running list which we can go through. 01:15:09,569 S2: Um, excuse me. And then, uh, next is the compensation classification table. 01:15:17,329 S11: That was one that was on the consent count. Uh, consent article the last few years. 01:15:22,529 S2: All right. And I would I would recommend putting this on the consent again if people are fine with that. 01:15:27,930 S10: So have we seen that yet? I don't think I've seen that yet. 01:15:32,000 S5: It's in development, so it'll be able it will be ready in time for the meet. For the meeting. What was holding us up was, uh, collective bargaining negotiations. I have verbal, I have, I have, uh, I have agreements, verbal agreements with four of the five unions, and I have a meeting with the fifth tomorrow. Um, it looks like we'll be able to make all the adjustments we need to before town meetings, so we won't have to keep guessing at that stuff. 01:15:55,600 S19: Okay. Oh, great. So I was. 01:15:58,130 S5: Wendy has something to add to that. 01:15:59,199 S19: Sorry. 01:15:59,600 S20: I just want to add that the the dollar amounts will not be sitting in the personnel line items. They still will be sitting in the reserve. Just so you. 01:16:08,270 S19: Understand that, right? Right. 01:16:09,569 S20: But it will be reflected in the tables. 01:16:11,170 S5: But the tables will. 01:16:11,869 S19: Roll. 01:16:12,100 S2: As we've done in. 01:16:12,729 S19: The past. 01:16:13,300 S2: Make it easier for all involved. 01:16:15,470 S19: Okay. Thank you. 01:16:16,600 S17: Just so process question there. Would we want like would we be comfortable voting favorable action if we don't have a updated table at the time of need to place those votes? 01:16:27,529 S10: No, I think that was my question, Harry. It's like, okay, in order for us to take a vote on, we want to physically have the table in front of us. 01:16:36,500 S19: You will. 01:16:36,930 S10: Okay. Okay. 01:16:38,770 S19: You heard I'd. 01:16:40,529 S8: Like to see you have the table in front of me. 01:16:42,029 S19: As well. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, but. 01:16:43,800 S10: It probably should land on the consent agenda. 01:16:46,630 S19: Yes. 01:16:47,229 S10: Eventually. 01:16:47,770 S19: All right, so. 01:16:48,670 S2: Let's earmark this for a consent agenda and say that we'll recommend an action favorable or unfavorable at our next meeting. 01:16:57,270 S5: One 318. 01:16:58,329 S19: Okay. 18th. Yeah. 01:16:59,800 S10: And when could we expect the table? 01:17:04,800 S10: I'm just trying. 01:17:05,430 S19: To. 01:17:06,369 S10: I'm just trying to plan a vote. 01:17:07,930 S19: Yeah, we have a good one. 01:17:09,369 S10: Give me a date. 01:17:11,329 S20: 318. 01:17:12,399 S19: No, no, she's 23. 01:17:15,029 S20: Well, I'm. 01:17:15,770 S19: I'm going to April 6th. 01:17:17,170 S20: Yeah. I'm going to try to get that accomplished early next week. 01:17:20,970 S19: How's that? Okay. 01:17:21,729 S5: Before your meeting on the 13th. 01:17:22,829 S19: Yes. 13. Okay. 01:17:24,369 S5: We're meeting. You have a meeting? 01:17:25,569 S10: You have a meeting on the 13th. Right. So we obviously want to vote. 01:17:28,399 S19: Yes. 01:17:28,630 S20: Is that work for everybody? 01:17:29,670 S10: Okay. 01:17:30,029 S19: And then they believe on the 18th. Okay. 01:17:31,800 S2: And I will say that, Mr. McGrath, that if you don't have it, you can always make a recommendation on the floor. 01:17:38,329 S19: Correct? 01:17:39,500 S21: No, but I will not let you down. 01:17:40,899 S19: Okay. 01:17:41,399 S21: I'll have it. 01:17:42,600 S10: Great. Thanks. 01:17:44,229 S2: All right. Prior year bills. 01:17:47,229 S5: We don't have any. 01:17:47,899 S19: Regular or none. Do not have one. So I. 01:17:49,829 S2: Would like. My question is then to the the select board is do we want to. And we have a few other things here. Do we want to reopen the warrant now to take out this article and any other possible ones that. 01:18:05,970 S19: So come on out. 01:18:06,630 S5: So while I, I support the idea of reopening the warrant to maybe remove a couple of things that may you may want to remove. I would say that with this one. 01:18:15,369 S10: I'll leave it in. 01:18:16,199 S5: I'll leave it in because we can always pass over it. If it stays this way, we have nothing. But if we take it out and then. 01:18:21,199 S19: Move. 01:18:21,399 S5: On the week before. 01:18:22,430 S2: We get a bill. 01:18:22,970 S5: We get a bill. We can't move. 01:18:24,170 S19: It. 01:18:24,600 S5: Yeah, yeah. So we I leave it in, not make any recommendation at this time because there are none. And you could always make a recommendation on the committee floor. 01:18:31,670 S2: I'm okay with that. And we can just take no action on it. Sound good? 01:18:36,970 S19: Okay, Perfect. 01:18:38,170 S2: Uh, article two. Dash. Can you slide up a little bit on your. 01:18:44,029 S19: Yeah. 01:18:44,899 S10: Two. Three. 01:18:46,569 S19: Come on. 01:18:47,229 S2: Is it two. Three? 01:18:48,229 S19: Two. 01:18:48,470 S11: Three is the budget? Yes. 01:18:50,300 S2: So our general budget. And we've got a number in there, which includes the school district and the, uh, was it the. I'm going to call it Essex Aggie, but it's. 01:19:02,069 S5: The Essex North Shore. 01:19:03,430 S19: Agricultural. 01:19:04,270 S2: And cultural tech. Uh, and this is appendix B. 01:19:10,770 S2: And it's to raise an appropriate, uh. 01:19:17,229 S2: $2 40,000,078. 956. 01:19:22,770 S20: Is that. 01:19:23,069 S19: What you know. 01:19:24,069 S2: What you got? You get a different number. 01:19:25,130 S5: 40 million. 01:19:26,229 S19: 2626. 627. Oh, I've got it. 01:19:28,500 S10: So that's changed. Okay. 01:19:29,699 S19: Yeah. 01:19:30,630 S5: That was changed today. Sorry. 01:19:34,829 S2: Uh, and, Tom, is this a. 01:19:40,869 S11: Not a consent. 01:19:41,899 S2: Not a consent, but a simple majority though, right? 01:19:44,069 S11: Simple majority. Unless we were appropriating funds from stabilization, which has never been the case. 01:19:49,699 S5: Okay, so does our question. Tom, real quick. So the way this reads right now is to see if the town will raise an appropriate or transfer from available funds. That would include free cash. 01:19:58,329 S11: That would include free cash. Yes. 01:19:59,800 S5: So sum of money to defray the expenses of schools and all of the town expenses for the fiscal year beginning or take any action there. And then we explain what the what the what the total dollar amount is and where it would go to. 01:20:10,069 S11: Right in the in the motion, it would specify how much money is being raised and appropriated and transferred from other sources, which could include free cash or other line items. 01:20:20,529 S5: So that'll be in the motion. So that that gets to the heart of what we discussed. Um, Sean previously about the the retirement payouts. Right. So that will be in there, but it'll be used. Use of free cash for retirement payouts. But it'll be all in there. 01:20:34,829 S2: So did you catch that about the retirement stuff? We won't have a separate article for it. Weren't included in this article. 01:20:40,100 S19: Okay. 01:20:40,770 S8: Um, is there a presentation from the school on their budget, on updates on projects before this? 01:20:47,100 S5: And there is always a presentation from the school. 01:20:50,000 S19: And. 01:20:50,470 S8: They'll come up during. 01:20:51,199 S5: Yes, they'll. 01:20:51,600 S19: Come out during this piece. 01:20:52,430 S2: Yeah. We'll recognize Eric to. 01:20:54,000 S19: Speak to this. 01:20:54,670 S5: Eric will spend his amount of time to discuss his budget. 01:20:59,369 S2: All right. So moving along. Do we want to make a recommendation for favorable non favorable action? I'll take a motion. If somebody wants to. 01:21:06,369 S19: Make it. 01:21:07,100 S10: You want to vote. 01:21:07,770 S19: On it. I move. 01:21:08,229 S8: That we recommend. 01:21:09,800 S19: Action on article. 01:21:10,770 S8: 2-3 and approve the school budget. 01:21:16,399 S2: Uh, all those in favor say aye. Aye aye. All right. Unanimous. 01:21:23,000 S2: Uh, 2-4. 01:21:24,770 S10: I think I think the Finn is going to vote on. 01:21:26,970 S19: Some of these. Yeah. Okay, great. All right. 01:21:28,229 S2: Thanks, John. 01:21:28,770 S19: Go ahead. 01:21:29,270 S10: So I'd like to get a motion on Article 2-3 from Behnken to approve. 01:21:36,069 S7: I moved that the fin com make a favorable recommendation on article 2.23. 01:21:43,029 S15: Second. 01:21:44,470 S10: And can we do a roll call on the zoom? 01:21:49,069 S17: Harry. Philip, I. 01:21:53,569 S10: Alex, are you with us. 01:21:57,199 S5: Okay Alex you Muted he's there. 01:22:01,630 S10: He's probably putting one of the kids to bed. 01:22:03,600 S19: Maybe it could be okay. 01:22:05,569 S15: Um John I. 01:22:07,369 S7: Christina Shank Hargrove I. 01:22:09,430 S10: And John McGrath I. 01:22:11,199 S19: Forgot. 01:22:11,470 S5: Nothing about. 01:22:12,029 S19: Okay. Yeah. 01:22:13,270 S2: All right. 2-4. 01:22:17,369 S2: You want to scroll up. 01:22:18,029 S19: A little bit? Yep. 01:22:19,630 S2: Uh, our capital expenditures and this is the see of the town, will raise an appropriate, uh, borrow or transfer from available funds unless the script is changed here in the new version. 01:22:30,000 S19: Let's don't see. 01:22:31,569 S2: Some of money for the purpose of funding capital expenditures, and further, to authorize a town manager to administer and expend these funds from state accounts or take any action there to or relative thereto. And the expect request is 1.6 million and change. 01:22:51,069 S19: Yeah. 01:22:52,369 S2: Um, and is that comment still relevant? Is for two thirds vote if we're bothering to leave it. 01:22:59,430 S19: Oh, we aren't borrowing. 01:23:00,369 S5: This would be, uh, all of the funds expected in this are going to be free cash. 01:23:06,270 S19: Right. 01:23:06,670 S11: Okay. 01:23:07,369 S10: Is it all free cash? Because some of it was Arpa and some of it was. 01:23:10,699 S5: Was voted by the Select. 01:23:11,430 S19: Board and. 01:23:11,899 S5: Actually probably voted prior to town meeting at either the meeting on the 18th or the meeting on April. 01:23:16,369 S19: 1st. Yeah. 01:23:17,100 S5: So those are. 01:23:17,869 S2: The remainder will. 01:23:18,500 S19: Be free cash. 01:23:19,930 S5: Um, well, actually no free cash. Free cash. And, um. Um. Sorry. Yes. Uh, overlay. 01:23:25,899 S10: Overlay. 01:23:26,470 S5: Overlay. Well, the two, the two, the two that have to get voted by town meeting are the assessor's overlay and the free cash expenditure. Does the assessors overlay use of assessors? Overlay doesn't require two thirds does it? No, it does not. Okay. Do you have. 01:23:36,699 S10: A list of the line items. 01:23:39,899 S11: So if if you know at this point if we knew the specific funding sources and dollar amounts coming from those particular funding sources. 01:23:48,300 S5: We'll get I. 01:23:48,930 S11: Will get we can include. We could I could redraft the article so that it specifically addresses that, in which case then it could go on the consent agenda if you wanted it to. 01:23:59,000 S5: Okay. Well we will get you that. 01:24:01,270 S10: For for purposes of the vote. It's the snowblower Chevy pickup truck, dump truck sander, sidewalk and road repairs, HVAC upgrades at the service building, fuel canopy, HVAC at the recreation center, painting at the library, and a new cruiser. That's a million. 610. Right. And there's three sources. Free cash is a million won. Arpa was 250 and overlay was 250. So that's the million. 610. 01:24:31,800 S11: Yeah. Town meeting doesn't vote on Arpa funds, though. So for purposes of this, it would be to. 01:24:37,199 S5: It'd be less than one six. So we'll have to adjust that number minus two. 01:24:40,829 S11: And whatever projects are being funded by Arpa would not need to be included. 01:24:44,670 S5: Right. They go to select board one of the next two meetings. Right. 01:24:47,869 S2: So you and Wendy will. We'll adjust that out. 01:24:50,199 S5: We'll take that out and we'll redraft that with the sources of funding being free cash and assessor's overlay. 01:24:56,329 S11: Right. And as I said, if we specify the specific the exact dollar amount and funding source. So from each one of the the exact amount. 01:25:03,600 S5: 150,000 from the assessor's overlay, and the rest of it will be from, um free cash. Free cash. 01:25:08,800 S11: Right. And then as long as you have a specific dollar amount and funding source and. 01:25:13,770 S5: We'll get you that tomorrow. 01:25:14,729 S11: It can go on the consent agenda. 01:25:16,670 S5: Okay. We'll have you that tomorrow. Okay. 01:25:19,199 S17: One just super quick note. It should be the 2024 appendix book here, not 23. 01:25:24,630 S2: Thank you. Thank you. Harry. Um, so do we. 01:25:28,199 S15: Do we want to put capital on? 01:25:30,069 S2: I was just so I was just going to ask. I don't think. 01:25:31,829 S15: So. That's a budget. Yeah. 01:25:32,800 S5: You don't. 01:25:33,399 S2: I mean, it would be great to to have it on there, but I wouldn't want. 01:25:37,029 S10: Someone might want to. 01:25:38,369 S16: Write. 01:25:39,029 S10: The sand or forgot, you know. 01:25:40,600 S5: So yeah. 01:25:41,470 S2: I doubt anybody will. But I just like to be more transparent with parents. 01:25:45,000 S11: Sure. Okay. So we will not include that. So the article doesn't need to change. Then the motion will just specifically identify the funding sources at that time. 01:25:53,029 S5: We'll get that. 01:25:53,970 S11: We could change it but it doesn't have to. 01:25:55,869 S5: Yeah. 01:25:57,800 S2: Um, anybody on this side want to make a motion to recommend favorable action? 01:26:02,569 S8: Well, just one more thing. You can change the narrative on the request if funded by taxation. Do we need to say if do we just strike that or. 01:26:09,600 S5: Yeah it won't. We can change the narrative. Um, the brief summary and the fiscal tax rate impact that won't have an impact because it's not going to be from raise inappropriate. It's all going to come from the assessors overlay. So that whole. 01:26:20,470 S2: Whole section. 01:26:21,000 S5: Will change to say that this will have no impact on the tax rate. Right. Right. 01:26:25,229 S8: And I would move that we recommend favorable action on an amended. Uh capital expenditure number to exclude the opera funding. 01:26:34,869 S2: All right. 01:26:35,529 S21: Second. 01:26:36,529 S2: All those in favor say aye. Aye, aye. I. 01:26:41,930 S2: Think, um. Do you want to? 01:26:43,130 S5: Yep. 01:26:44,529 S10: I'll entertain a motion. 01:26:47,470 S7: Um, I move that the fin com recommend favorable action on article two for second. 01:26:54,229 S15: Second. 01:26:55,930 S10: Okay, we'll do a roll call. Um, on the zoom. Harry? 01:27:00,170 S17: Harry. Fall bite. 01:27:01,729 S10: Alex, are you with us? 01:27:05,270 S10: Nope. Okay. 01:27:06,470 S15: John, I. 01:27:08,529 S7: Kristina Shankar Grove, I. 01:27:10,170 S10: And John McGrath. I. Okay, thank you very much. 01:27:14,930 S2: And Mr. Chair of our finance advisor, you can always add Alex's votes in later on Wednesday. Yeah. Yeah. 01:27:22,930 S10: Yeah. 01:27:24,630 S2: All right. Uh, 2-5 water. Enterprise budget. This is to see if the town will approve the fiscal year 2025 water enterprise budget, as set forth in appendix E, or take any action therein or relative there to. And the expect to request is, uh, what is it there? Is it changed? 23199 2,300,000. 01:27:47,399 S21: 319. 01:27:49,229 S2: I can't see it from there, but. 01:27:50,329 S5: I two um. 01:27:52,100 S2: What is the latest? 01:27:52,729 S21: 1,319,978. 01:27:56,800 S5: Thank you. 2,309,978. 01:28:01,130 S11: This is an article that typically has been on the consent agenda as well. 01:28:04,729 S5: Oh, it has. 01:28:05,130 S11: Been it has. 01:28:06,430 S2: Put it in there since we kind of cleaned up our water enterprise budget and all that stuff we've put on the consent. 01:28:16,600 S2: Um. 01:28:19,430 S2: And this is supported by water fees. The adoption of the budget will not impact the tax rate. 01:28:28,029 S2: So I guess two questions to my board. Do we want to include it in consent as we have previously done, and do we want to recommend favorable action? 01:28:37,199 S4: Is there a good reason not to put it in the consent agenda? 01:28:39,899 S2: No. 01:28:42,569 S8: Only in the discussion we just had about budgets being. 01:28:48,029 S8: You know, not in the consent gender agenda. We just had that discussion right. 01:28:53,100 S10: Before that was for capital. 01:28:54,569 S5: Yeah. 01:28:55,000 S8: For any any. 01:28:58,430 S8: I'm not opposed. I mean it actually decreases right. 01:29:04,630 S2: Say that last part again Bill. 01:29:05,899 S8: It actually goes down right. What goes down. 01:29:09,100 S2: This says it reference a decrease right. 01:29:11,029 S21: Yeah. Oh no sorry that changed. 01:29:13,069 S5: You get the wrong. Yeah. 01:29:14,199 S2: We're looking at an older version. 01:29:15,430 S5: Looking at an old version. Okay. The the You have the. 01:29:19,670 S2: It's an increase of. 01:29:20,869 S5: 30 34,001.5%. 01:29:23,670 S20: We didn't we didn't have the compensation at the time. So we had to add that to it when we presented it to the select board. Gotcha. We add that and then we were able to calculate the indirect cost as well with the compensation. 01:29:36,770 S2: And I think in the past we've included it in the consent agenda because it hasn't impacted the tax rate. 01:29:41,899 S16: And there's an option to withhold it to right. When you go to the. 01:29:44,930 S5: Consent agenda, somebody can always hold it. 01:29:46,770 S16: So if someone had a burning desire to discuss it or vote on it separately, they could. 01:29:50,699 S2: Yeah, I think it's a valid point, Tom. If somebody really had a bee in their bonnet about the water enterprise budget, they could hold it. 01:30:01,699 S21: In motion to move it to the consent agenda. Can you just go ahead? 01:30:05,729 S2: Say that again. 01:30:06,930 S21: Yes. Make a motion to move it to the consent agenda. Or does it just go away? 01:30:10,000 S5: You'll do that at the at the end, you'll make a motion to put the ones that we're calling out, and you put the list of them into the consent agenda and then that will be read at town meeting. 01:30:19,300 S2: Hopefully Joe or Tom is taking notes because I'm not reading right now. 01:30:22,800 S5: So right now we have two one. 01:30:24,130 S2: I'm usually pretty good about, but I just realized that he was saying that I haven't been writing him down. 01:30:27,369 S5: So again, right now, 2125 so far. All right. Perfect. Right. 01:30:30,470 S8: Well, I guess to start I move that we recommend favorable action. 01:30:35,100 S2: On 2-5. 01:30:35,930 S8: To article 2-5. 01:30:37,100 S2: It's not good. All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye. All right. Any further discussion about consent agenda? 01:30:45,529 S8: I'm opposed to it. So. Okay. 01:30:47,399 S2: All right. So let's put that one in the consent. 01:30:49,569 S5: Okay. 01:30:50,729 S2: Uh, in fin comm. Do you guys want to weigh in? 01:30:53,199 S10: Yeah. I mean, we haven't looked at the budget yet, the details. So we're going to hold that one until Wednesday. 01:30:58,130 S5: Okay. 01:30:58,930 S10: So, I mean, I think it's appropriate to wait. 01:31:02,470 S5: Yeah. 01:31:02,970 S2: All right. 2-5 is, uh, 2-6 is our annual financial actions. If you can scroll up, I'll try to read it. Uh, see you at the time. Authorize the following financial actions or take any action therein or relatively there. Two to transfer 2000 from the cemetery. Sale of lots and graves to the general Fund for cemetery purposes, and transfer 500,000 and change from the Water Enterprise Fund to the General Fund to be used for indirect expenses and the transfer of 6300, and change from the interest of the Clark Fund to the Conservation Commission Trust Fund for conservation related expenses. This is, uh, what kind of impact? 01:31:57,930 S5: This creates a reduction in the estimated tax rate, because these funds take the place of money that would have to otherwise be raised and appropriated to the tax. So you take money out of the cemetery loss fund, and we can use that to purchase certain things in the cemetery department without affecting the tax rate. Same goes for the Water Enterprise Fund. If we didn't see this change, we'd have to raise the money for the town side to work on the water enterprise account instead of reimbursing the town from the water rates. And the Clark Fund was an endowment or a gift to the town many years ago, the interest of which goes to the Conservation Trust to help them with their related expenses. 01:32:35,300 S2: Right. And so we're reducing our tax rate impact of this by about 510,000 01:32:44,829 S2: or so roughly. 01:32:45,800 S5: Yeah, a little more than that. Yeah. 01:32:46,970 S2: A little more than that. 01:32:48,630 S11: This is another article that's typically on the consent agenda as well. 01:32:54,300 S8: Just for my clarification, sorry if I missed it on be fun to be used for indirect expenses. What does that mean. 01:33:01,800 S5: What do you. 01:33:02,069 S22: Want to do. 01:33:02,630 S20: So that's the calculation. Um, that basically how many personnel are used to help? operate the water enterprise. So basically the administrative staff. Town manager, finance, treasury and all the benefits and salaries that go with it, as long as well as other expenses that are in the budget that would affect it. 01:33:27,100 S5: Got it. 01:33:27,430 S20: So there's a. 01:33:28,029 S8: Percentage. 01:33:28,470 S5: Deputy directors time, for instance. And all of. 01:33:31,029 S8: His they do an allocation of time to support. 01:33:33,729 S20: There's actually a policy on indirect expenses. 01:33:36,300 S8: Okay. 01:33:36,630 S5: There is the time follows and follows that policy. And calculating this expense. 01:33:42,829 S2: That was a big one when we passed it. 01:33:44,170 S8: And just again from I for a so even though it came in the funds from cemetery sale of lots, it has to be voted out of there to be used for. 01:33:53,470 S2: The way that fund is. Yeah, it's kind of silly that way, but yeah. 01:33:58,770 S2: And we've done that before. Within the Select board in that town meeting, we've released money from there to do specific things. 01:34:04,770 S5: Yeah. Specific things. This is just an annual allocation at the beginning of the year. So they they know they have they can buy. 01:34:09,470 S8: They have. 01:34:09,729 S5: Money. Fertilizer, whatever they have. Right. 01:34:17,930 S2: In the income. Money is somewhat administrative. I think they do help the school district pay for some field trips or something like that occasionally. Yes, I've remembered incorrectly. There's some some program that they give money to the school to offset the cost for the students to participate in it. At least they used to. I think they still do. 01:34:39,399 S8: It's pretty specific. Number 6351 is that. 01:34:42,100 S5: It's the amount of it. It's the amount of interest that accrued since last year. 01:34:45,300 S8: So it's the balance of the interest accrued. Okay. 01:34:49,569 S2: All right. Any further questions on this one. So we want to make a motion to recommend some type of action favorable favorable recommendation. 01:35:04,270 S8: All right I move that we recommend favorable action for article 2-6. Okay. 01:35:09,869 S2: All right. Uh, seeing no further discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye aye. All right. And then second question. Do we want to include this as we have in the past on consent? 01:35:21,569 S8: I have no problem with that. Okay. 01:35:23,199 S21: Do we still put actions in consent? 01:35:28,569 S21: Yeah. 01:35:29,630 S4: We put our recommendations. 01:35:30,800 S2: Yes. In case somebody pulls it, it's going to be. It's printed in the warrant, even though it's just the consent is at the meeting. Really. When they read the warrant they're going to see our recommendation on it. Makes sense. Yep. Fin com. 01:35:42,729 S10: Yeah. I think we should take a vote on this. It's pretty. 01:35:46,369 S2: You know what you're saying. 01:35:47,000 S10: But pretty cutting. 01:35:47,829 S4: Yeah. I just thought they were all listed, like, bulleted in there. I misunderstood. 01:35:53,970 S10: Entertain a motion to. 01:35:56,470 S15: I move that we recommend favorable action on article 2-6 second second. 01:36:03,130 S10: And let's do a roll call. I see. Harry. 01:36:07,569 S17: Harry. Fall. Bite. 01:36:09,569 S10: Alex, are you living in person yet? Okay. 01:36:15,300 S15: John. Privilege. I. 01:36:17,029 S7: Christina Shankar Grove I. 01:36:19,199 S10: And John McGrath, I. 01:36:23,770 S2: All right. 01:36:24,300 S10: Thank you. 01:36:25,170 S2: Thank you. Uh, article two seven, the HTC, uh, and see if the town will raise and appropriate the some of you scroll up or down, whatever, whatever way we're going there. Uh, $58,000 to the Hamilton Development Corporation or take any action there in or relatively there to expect a request is 58,000. 01:36:51,000 S11: This is another article that's typically been on the consent agenda. 01:36:56,470 S2: Yep. And this is our annual meals tax put into the Hamilton Development Corporation's kitty so that they can do downtown improvements, etc.. 01:37:11,699 S8: Any history on how the 58,000 was calculated, or whether it should be relocate, or what the total in meals taxes we get and what percentage is of that? 01:37:21,899 S5: The history of this has been a little bit all over the place. Um. Uh, it's the will of the town meeting in 2010. Was that the meals tax money be dedicated to the Hamilton Development Corp.? Uh, calculating what that should be. Each year has been a little bit difficult, and the number goes up and down. Um, at one point prior to my coming to town, the town had, you know, just targeted a number that was around about what they were annually getting and were just putting it in every year. We've made some adjustment to that. What was the calculation? 01:37:49,770 S20: This is the same as last year. 01:37:50,869 S5: Same was last. 01:37:51,329 S21: Year. 01:37:51,670 S20: Talked about. 01:37:52,170 S21: Potentially. 01:37:52,899 S20: The adjustment for next. 01:37:53,729 S8: Year. 01:37:54,069 S5: Right. 01:37:54,500 S21: Yeah. 01:37:56,130 S8: Yeah I think we should probably have a discussion of what their current balance is and what lies ahead. 01:38:00,470 S2: And I think and when you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think with the kind of what I call the receipts for that year of meals taxes different from our timeline so they don't quite line up. Same with CPC funding. Yeah, we get it in November, but are we deciding in July what we're giving and etc. so. 01:38:18,100 S20: That's why we discussed looking at it and you know, maybe adjusting it for next year. 01:38:22,970 S21: Okay. 01:38:26,869 S2: Um, anybody want to make another motion to recommend favorable action? 01:38:31,800 S16: I will make a motion for recommending favorable action on article 2-7. 01:38:37,470 S21: Okay. 01:38:37,930 S2: All right. Uh, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. And do we want to include this, as we have previously, in the consent agenda? All right. 01:38:48,199 S8: Fine with it. 01:38:49,369 S2: If you want to weigh in. 01:38:52,000 S10: Yeah, I think we should. Um, we'll take a vote on this. 01:38:56,869 S15: I move that we recommend favorable action on article two. Seven. 01:39:01,329 S17: Second Harry. Philip I. 01:39:05,829 S10: Okay. Harry. 01:39:07,600 S15: Job. 01:39:07,930 S7: Privilege I Kristina Shankar Grove I. 01:39:11,829 S10: John McGrath. I. 01:39:15,000 S10: Four zero thanks. 01:39:17,630 S2: All right. 2-8. Our annual contribution to our Op-Ed. Joe, if you want to scroll down a little bit more and we're going to do 125 again into it, uh, and from free cash. And this doesn't have an impact on our tax rate. Right. 01:39:37,329 S11: This is another consent. 01:39:38,930 S2: And we've done this on consent in the past. Uh, and this is my usual question that I always forget every year the answer to. But there's a certain amount until we're kind of vested in it. Where where are we on that timeline? Do we know. 01:39:55,229 S21: Oh, no, I don't. 01:39:56,399 S20: I can look it up right now. 01:39:57,470 S21: Real quick. 01:39:58,270 S5: What do you one. 01:39:59,100 S2: All right. Well, Wendy's doing that. Anybody want to make a motion to recommend a favorable action. 01:40:03,369 S21: I move that we take favorable action on article 2-8. 01:40:08,829 S16: Second. 01:40:10,170 S2: Uh. Any discussion? 01:40:11,630 S8: Uh, what did you just ask? 01:40:14,369 S2: So you pay in a certain amount, you get kind of vested in it, and then our money is just. Exactly. And I know I can't remember the timeline I remember. 01:40:23,170 S5: Yeah. According to the summer here, Wendy's looking up the actual number. But according to the the latest summary that we had, the actuarial determined unfunded liability was approximately $5.9 million. The town has currently set aside $1.198 million. 01:40:35,670 S2: So we're about about fifth in there. 01:40:37,000 S5: Yeah. 01:40:37,399 S8: We're right. 01:40:39,199 S2: And I guess my my like, well, let's let's vote on it first. So all those in favor of favorable action recommendation say I, I, I. Okay. Uh, and how about on the consent agenda? That's fine. Yes. Okay. Uh, and then my question would be to fin com. Um, we've kind of had 125 for a number of years. I think one year we put in a little bit more. We've put in a little bit less at times, but I think we've stayed fairly steady. Is there any inkling urge, urgency to do more? Not this year. 01:41:18,329 S23: We don't have it this year. Right? Yeah yeah, yeah. Don't change that number now. That would have been a discussion in January. Yeah. 01:41:27,300 S10: I mean I mean, it's certainly a fair question. I mean, here's what I would say. Um, over the next six months we're going to spend some time looking at water. 01:41:39,029 S2: Yeah. 01:41:39,670 S10: Revenue, expenses. Capital. We could certainly take a look. 01:41:44,470 S2: Yeah, I think I think it's worth looking at that 125 a year investment and seeing what the run of it is till we get to our, you know, $6 million. 01:41:55,300 S10: Yeah. 01:41:55,930 S2: There. You see how long that's going to take? At least we can get a prediction. Well, we're going to we're going to be at this for the next 25 years at 125,000. And if we can throw in a couple 200,000 or something like that. What's that shrink on our, you know, it's like paying off your bond. You know, it's the same kind of thing. 01:42:13,470 S10: Yeah. That would be a good summer project for the income. 01:42:16,369 S23: You know? I mean, you're looking for your project. 01:42:18,899 S15: What was the last time we had an actuarial? Do you know. 01:42:22,529 S20: 2021? 01:42:23,600 S23: Yeah, yeah, a couple of years ago. 01:42:24,729 S15: Like, I think we're due probably for another one. 01:42:26,569 S20: So you have to by audit standards, you have to. So with the, um, it's called the, um, um, measurement date. So the audit allows 18 months for one Gatsby and it allows 24 months for another Gatsby. So we will be up and coming this year. 01:42:43,130 S23: Okay. 01:42:43,470 S15: Yeah. I think once we get that new actually. 01:42:45,199 S2: Maybe a better. 01:42:45,729 S23: Ballpark. 01:42:46,100 S15: Right. And then we really are. Yeah, exactly. 01:42:48,500 S10: Bring it to the right. 01:42:50,329 S23: Yeah. 01:42:50,699 S10: Have a discussion. 01:42:51,670 S20: Yeah, but they're looking at all the way to 2053 in this particular actuarial. 01:42:58,329 S23: Okay. 01:42:59,029 S20: So because the liability changes with each. 01:43:02,670 S23: Yeah. Every year. 01:43:03,270 S2: So each time you get a different. Yeah. Right. It's a it's a moving target. 01:43:06,930 S21: Right. 01:43:08,529 S10: So it's fair to have an updated conversation right over the next year. Let's just say that right. 01:43:13,630 S2: I mean, I don't I don't see us gaining a ton of employees in the, you know, any near future, but you know, this. That's more payout in the long run, right? 01:43:23,369 S23: Yeah. 01:43:23,600 S5: You you you might not add a worker count to the annual operating cohort, but as people retire and then you bring on new people, the cohort, the overall number does change. 01:43:38,229 S23: Right. 01:43:38,930 S2: So right. 01:43:41,869 S20: It does look like the potential. 01:43:43,470 S2: Right to cross a change too. 01:43:44,529 S23: Right. 01:43:44,869 S21: Go ahead. 01:43:45,229 S20: So right now it looks like the potential break even is like 2047 ish. 01:43:50,229 S2: So that's actually not. 01:43:52,170 S21: That's not too bad, right? 01:43:54,000 S15: Like we're following the plan that was set. 01:43:55,800 S2: Yeah. I mean, years ago. Jenna, we figured that out. 01:43:58,199 S23: Exactly. 01:43:58,600 S20: And that's. 01:43:58,899 S21: Giving. 01:43:59,229 S20: One that's 125 every year. 01:44:01,270 S23: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 01:44:02,800 S2: That's not bad. 01:44:03,369 S23: Yeah. Yeah. 01:44:04,770 S2: Do your summer work if you want to. 01:44:06,000 S23: Yeah. Yeah. We're good. 01:44:08,029 S2: All right. 01:44:08,569 S5: So what? I think I'm going to go on this after. 01:44:10,869 S23: Yeah. One. Oh, sorry. 01:44:11,600 S10: Why don't we have the income vote on the OP? 01:44:15,000 S15: I move that we recommend favorable action on article 2-8. 01:44:20,470 S7: Um. Second. 01:44:23,029 S23: Okay. 01:44:24,699 S10: Harry. 01:44:25,699 S23: Harry. 01:44:29,470 S10: Harry! Alex, are you there? Nope. 01:44:32,829 S15: Shall I? 01:44:34,069 S7: Christina. Shankar. Grove, I. 01:44:36,500 S10: John McGrath. 01:44:37,300 S21: I I broke in the baby asleep. 01:44:40,000 S2: All right. Article 2-9, uh, stabilization fund. The city of the town will transfer $82,781 from free cash to general stabilization fund, or take any action therein or relatively there to. And the expected request is as stated seconds ago, and this is a two thirds vote. Since it's a stabilization fund so it won't be on the consent. Um, and this will not impact tax rate because coming from free cash. 01:45:11,630 S23: Correct. 01:45:18,100 S21: Uh, I move that we. 01:45:20,430 S4: Recommend favorable. 01:45:21,300 S21: Action on April 2-9. 01:45:24,270 S2: All right. Second Tom. 01:45:27,899 S8: Go ahead. Because I just I just kind of have a question on a comment balance. And does it already be meet our policy of 5%. 01:45:34,369 S23: This isn't. 01:45:34,930 S20: Nearly there. 01:45:35,699 S21: Sorry. 01:45:36,029 S23: It's like nearly. 01:45:36,930 S20: A little over 2 million. But this will just keep us. 01:45:40,130 S5: The the number moves every year. Every time the budget goes up, then the amount that we have to have in stabilization goes up slightly. So this it becomes kind of an annual appropriation. It fluctuates a little because every year how much you have to justify to get to to meet the minimum. So that's. 01:45:54,729 S23: What we're going. 01:45:55,300 S8: To do to pretty much get us right at five. 01:45:57,199 S21: Pretty much. 01:45:58,069 S23: Yeah. 01:45:58,699 S21: All right. 01:46:00,300 S8: Guys. 01:46:02,529 S2: All right. Uh, all those in favor of recommending favorable action, say, a high income. 01:46:11,399 S15: I love this. 01:46:11,970 S23: One. 01:46:13,329 S10: Yeah. Can I get a motion on the stabilization transfer? 01:46:17,470 S7: I move that the fin com recommend favorable action on article. Is it 2-99. 01:46:26,529 S15: Second. 01:46:28,670 S10: Harry. 01:46:30,000 S17: Harry Philip I. 01:46:32,500 S15: John I. 01:46:34,699 S7: Christina Hargrove I. 01:46:37,399 S10: John McGrath. I. 01:46:40,130 S17: I just asked a quick question on this. Would it ever make sense to change the bylaws such that it's majority to put money in, and then two thirds stake it out such that we could put this on consent agenda in future years and not have to vote on it separately every year. 01:46:53,569 S11: So certainly you could. By statute, the statute was amended a while back to allow that monies paid into a stabilization fund are only subject to majority vote. Monies coming out are two thirds vote, although they just change that again. And I think it's I don't recall what it was, but I know that they did change, um, that there's a difference between monies that are appropriated out of a general stabilization fund and a special purpose stabilization fund. One is now majority, one is still a two thirds. So I will need to check to see specifically what that is at some point before town meetings start coming up. But I do know that that was a recent change made in December by the legislature. So, uh. 01:47:41,529 S5: I'd be happy to have us look at this for next year's annual timing. 01:47:44,000 S23: Tommy. 01:47:44,770 S17: Yeah. I just love to have this, like, a set agenda in the future. 01:47:48,670 S2: Yeah. No, I agree with Harry. If we can verify that simple majority be a lot easier, 01:47:56,100 S2: at least putting it into it. Taking it out is probably always gonna be two thirds. 01:47:59,300 S10: Yeah, it does make some sense to make it harder to spend money than to save money. 01:48:03,500 S23: Yes. Right. Exactly. 01:48:05,670 S8: So especially if you have a policy on it. 01:48:08,430 S23: There you go. 01:48:08,970 S5: In my personal life, it's way easier to spend money. 01:48:11,029 S23: Than your personal policy. Right. 01:48:17,569 S2: All right. Um, article two dash ten. 01:48:21,630 S8: Did Finn want to move on? That one. 01:48:23,100 S23: Oh, here we did. 01:48:24,770 S10: Yeah, we got it. 01:48:26,470 S2: Uh, two dash ten. Uh, just see, the town would transfer. Am I on the right one here? 01:48:32,600 S5: Yeah. $235,000. 01:48:34,069 S2: $230,000 for free cash stabilization to the excuse me, capital stabilization fund. Or take any action there on a relatively there They're two. Uh, and this is a two thirds vote. 01:48:46,529 S23: It's not a. 01:48:47,529 S2: So it's not a consent or simple majority. And again, this is coming for free cash. It doesn't affect the tax rate. 01:48:56,100 S5: So you'll remember that last year we took a sum of money from the Capital Stabilization Fund to help offset the cost of the fire engine. Uh, according to our financial policies and the promise that we made the town meeting last year, we would try our best to repay that over the next two fiscal years. So this is half of what we borrowed so that we can try to meet that obligation, that that promise you have when Wendy says she wants to disagree with me in public. 01:49:24,899 S23: Well, let's hear it. 01:49:25,729 S21: I don't like disagreeing with you, Joe. I'm sorry. 01:49:28,100 S20: I don't I just don't want you to mislead anybody. 01:49:31,329 S21: Sorry. 01:49:32,869 S5: Let me rephrase that. I was I was advised previously that we were required to try to repay it in two years. And that was what we said on the floor of town meeting last year that we would repay it in two years. A new reading of our financial policy on capital stabilization indicates that we don't have to pay it within two years. But as we did say that we would. 01:49:51,800 S23: We will. 01:49:52,500 S5: I'm doing our best to make sure we do. Is that. 01:49:55,270 S23: Better? 01:49:58,770 S23: I plead. 01:49:59,670 S21: The. 01:49:59,770 S23: Fifth. I just sit. 01:50:01,270 S21: Here. 01:50:01,729 S23: That's good. Okay. 01:50:03,970 S5: Apologize for mis. 01:50:04,670 S23: Speaking. Well done. Yeah. 01:50:06,970 S8: So, do we have a balance that's in our capital stabilization fund? 01:50:10,729 S21: We do? Yeah. 01:50:11,930 S20: We'll contradict what Joe just said, though. So the total reserve expectation is 1.6 million and the total balance is 900,000. So there's actually a $700,000 deficit. 01:50:25,699 S23: So that's. 01:50:28,170 S5: Great. We're going to need to take more next year. 01:50:31,729 S2: So we'll have to we'll have to, uh, transfer a little bit more next year. All right. And that's what. 01:50:36,699 S8: That supports at least this. 235 then as an explanation as well. 01:50:40,029 S23: Right? Yes. Right. 01:50:41,430 S8: Got it. 01:50:42,199 S2: All right, so, um, if the select board wants to make a motion to recommend favorable action on putting money back in that fund. 01:50:50,529 S8: I move that we recommend favorable favorable action on article two dash ten. 01:50:55,729 S21: Okay. 01:50:56,229 S2: All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All right. Pinkham. 01:51:01,100 S10: Okay. Let's do it. Pinkham. 01:51:04,600 S7: Um, I move that the Pinkham recommend favorable action on article two dash ten. 01:51:10,670 S15: Second. 01:51:12,369 S17: Harry. Phillip I. 01:51:14,329 S15: John. Privilege. 01:51:15,029 S7: I Christina Hargrove I. 01:51:18,970 S10: John McGrath I. 01:51:22,630 S10: Alex. You're not there, right? Okay. Just checking. 01:51:27,399 S23: Okay. 01:51:28,100 S2: All right. Two dash 11, uh, Athletic field stabilization fund. This is the see of the town. Will transfer. Um, we don't have an amount here. 01:51:37,930 S5: I'd like to recommend that the select board consider withdrawing or removing this article from the war. Um, that's one of the reasons that I said it might. You might want to reopen the warrant to be able to remove articles. Um, as the Finn alluded to through Mr. McGrath at the last meeting, the the amount of money that's in there in the account is currently earning a better interest rate than what the district is paying in interest on the bonds they've taken out. The this would essentially have no effect if we took the money out of this account and put no effect on the town budget, it would have a it would have a little bit of an effect on, on the taxpayer as we'd be able to take, uh, around $633,000 from here and therefore reduce the amount that had to be raised in the debt exclusion to support the fields. But this is the first year of that and ten year debt exclusion. So you'll have another opportunity to do this next year or the year after we the budget this year does not rely on the use of any of this money. So the only thing that you would be changing is that you would reduce by a little bit the amount that each taxpayer pays for the debt exclusion that they just approved last May, last April. Um, where whereas if you let it run a little bit longer, earn a little bit more interest, you might have a little bit more of an impact. 01:52:57,529 S10: I mean. 01:52:58,399 S8: That's. 01:52:59,000 S2: That 600 K. What's the impact to the tax rate or the reduction per 1000 household thing? Would you know. 01:53:05,800 S20: That I don't know if the top of my head. Sorry, I did not run those calculations. 01:53:09,270 S23: Okay. 01:53:10,069 S2: I mean, that's my only question. I mean, I agree with what you and I have talked about, John, but I just I'd like to know that number of that reduction of the tax rate. That's fair. Just because I think people, you know, for my own edification, I'd like to know what that is, even though I know it's smarter to, you know, bank that interest and then pay it out later. 01:53:32,470 S23: Yeah. I mean. 01:53:33,500 S10: I mean, there's probably only a one year decision because if interest rates are falling and they are. 01:53:38,369 S23: Right. 01:53:38,930 S10: The rate would. 01:53:39,529 S2: Probably. My guess is the next year. 01:53:41,270 S23: Or. 01:53:41,869 S2: The year after it will be. Pull it all out and and pay it towards it. 01:53:46,270 S23: Yeah. 01:53:46,970 S8: So so can we table a vote to 318. Then maybe we'll have more information and discussion from fin com. 01:53:52,270 S23: Yeah. 01:53:52,569 S10: So Wendy and I can work on that Wednesday. 01:53:56,029 S23: Okay. 01:53:56,630 S10: Huddle. 01:53:57,329 S2: All right. So we'll we'll skip that since it's been tabled for us. 01:54:00,069 S23: Yeah. 01:54:03,399 S2: And we can reopen it. Remove it then if we wanted to. 01:54:06,470 S23: Right. Correct. 01:54:08,229 S2: Correct. 01:54:09,000 S23: Yes. Okay. 01:54:10,430 S2: All right. Uh, two dash 12. Uh, our town center comprehensive plan. This is to see if the town will transfer from free cash to some of $125,000 to fund a town center comprehensive plan, including all incidental costs or take any action. They're under the relative of their two. And this is for, uh, three A and overlay district, etc. for the downtown Winthrop School area. 01:54:41,199 S23: Yeah. 01:54:41,399 S5: So we're as you just so that everybody knows, on the advice of council, the way we've advertised the to try to find a consultant is as an RFQ process with identifying this as a town center comprehensive plan. So, um, looking for the consultants that would be um, certified to be able to work on a comprehensive plan for the town center that would include the production of language to create, uh, three a compliant zoning district that would be form based cook and would use, uh, public input and um, design charrette with the residents of the town and the butters to the properties discussed. The process would probably take about a year, which would put us not in compliance with three a as a town with a, um, commuter rail stop in our town, we're supposed to be compliant by December of this year. Um, this process will take a little longer than that. The reason we've recommended going in this direction and putting ourselves on the wrong side of the three. A discussion with the state is because I'm quite frankly, concerned that if we go forward without this kind of process, we'll get the same result that Milton had, which is that the voters of town meeting will turn down the opportunity to adopt three a zoning. So, um, I think that was has far greater implications than if we tell the state that we're working on developing a plan that will get great community support at town meeting. 01:56:17,729 S2: And I'll add that I had a meeting with Representative Kastner, um, our planning inspections director and a few other folks. 01:56:28,899 S2: Maybe. It's been a month now and had a lot of questions with three A and town meeting votes and whether we could get an extension, etc. and I have heard that sadly. Crickets. So I'm going to follow up on that. Uh, also, uh, I'd like to encourage this board, uh, to work with Joe and Tom were on the school building, um, stuff that we look at, maybe making a decision on recommending either the Cutler Winthrop site or look at those options. I'd like to do it before town meeting, if we can, just because I think this would have a lot more teeth if we knew the direction we were going for placement of that new building, if we're going to go in that direction and it still has, it still would work because we're still working on a three way zoning. But I think you'd have a lot more support about a comprehensive plan for that whole site and three a farm based, etc.. 01:57:27,770 S23: So. 01:57:28,199 S16: If we're out of compliance with three A, but we're moving in the direction to try and come in compliance, does that mean that the state is unlikely to take action? I mean, we look at what happened to Milton, whether. 01:57:38,000 S2: We could possibly lose about 60,000 or so for our housing authority, which would have to pull out a general fund. 01:57:47,000 S23: Would. 01:57:47,369 S5: We would plan to come to town meeting next year with the zoning and also a separate article to have that funding for the housing authority, because that wouldn't be restored until after the vote was approved and everything else. 01:57:59,970 S23: Would miss a. 01:58:00,470 S5: Year. We miss a year of that funding. Um, it there's potential for other grants, like, for instance, the Cultural Facilities Fund grant that we have to to build the facility up behind the patent homestead. Uh, we're the friends of the Pat homestead are still pulling together the final pieces of the match. So we haven't been able to get that funding in-house and initiate the project. So, um, if it takes that long, I could see the state potentially taking that funding away. Um. 01:58:26,500 S8: How much was that again? 01:58:27,369 S23: Do you. 01:58:28,199 S5: Uh, off the top of my head, I think the whole grant I think we got. We're granted roughly $90,000. Yeah, yeah. And then we had to match it with that assignment amount. The the select board gave a sum of money from Arpa to move towards that match. But ask the friends to finish raising the rest. They raised some. I don't think that they've raised all of their share yet. I will be checking in with them this week. Um, but that money would be at risk. 01:58:55,630 S21: May I ask a question? I didn't really want everybody to. 01:59:00,869 S4: Of the half million dollars we've spent on consultants and plans in the last four years, how much of that has had a meaningful and strategic impact on the choices that we have made in the process by which we've gone through to come to those choices? 01:59:22,470 S2: That's a good question. 01:59:23,430 S23: That's a good question. 01:59:26,329 S4: I just feel like it's a lot of 125 or 250. 01:59:32,500 S21: To. 01:59:32,899 S4: Not actually get where we're trying to go. 01:59:38,899 S2: Well, I think the I can speak to a couple kind of ones. Not all of them, but I think for the Patent Park master plan, that's been very helpful for future direction of the park. You know, we haven't put any capital towards it yet, but we will in the future. And I think the issue and why we wanted to do that plan for the park was because it's been fairly piecemeal over the existence of it. And so it's very disjointed and it's people love to use it, but it's not very user friendly. And so this helps guide us on those capital investments when we do do them, which I think is very valuable instead of just willy nilly. Uh, and we just invested in our master plan, which you were a part of as well. And that's rapping. 02:00:24,399 S4: Which is why. 02:00:24,899 S23: I asked which is for me. 02:00:25,770 S2: Which is why we asked. But now we're getting to the end of it where we have the kind of recommendations. And Bill, you can speak to this. 02:00:31,270 S23: Yeah, I think that's a. 02:00:32,369 S8: Useful document going down the road. I think we're about to wrap it up likely. Uh, I think we meet on the 13th of this month and it's going to go to the planning board. And then, you know, they're really going to sink their teeth into it. And that's where I expect a lot of back and forth. Now how the departments use it. They've been it went you know Joe and team had a meeting, you know, with uh Barrett and company and uh, you know, so they're working on the implementation of it. So it's a tool. I think that will be a useful one if used. But I agree with you. There's been a lot of plans. We've got other plans that are there's a housing production plans and there's probably required stuff too. But there's a lot of 200,000 here and there that we and the schools have. 02:01:11,970 S2: Spent in the in. To your point, with the housing production plan, that's a was it every 3 or 5 years. 02:01:16,869 S23: That. 02:01:17,399 S5: Every five years. 02:01:18,000 S23: Is required? 02:01:18,569 S2: Basically that's a requirement. We've been out of compliance with it before, and it's coming back to bite us a bit. And I think the other one that that I think has fallen short is our Gordon Seminary Consultants. That one. 02:01:31,829 S23: Is. 02:01:32,369 S2: Yeah. 02:01:32,970 S5: That's I think that the that one, the use of that planning document wasn't completely within our control. And the reason it hasn't lived up to its potential is because that the recommendations though the town was willing and able to follow them. Um, we're not something that all the parties involved embraced. 02:01:56,930 S4: Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's going to be the same 10 to 12 people providing the inputs. I don't know. I don't really want to I don't want to lay in front of the train, but I'm like. 02:02:13,029 S4: We haven't cracked the code on engagement on these things, and we certainly haven't cracked the code on the engagement of the folks who end up having feelings, thoughts and feelings. Right? Um, and I, I just for some reason, this one strikes me as particularly challenging. I also think it's going to be one that comes back asking for another. 02:02:35,100 S5: We won't have time. 02:02:36,029 S23: We just. 02:02:37,000 S5: We won't have. 02:02:37,500 S23: Time. 02:02:37,770 S2: We've got a short runway here. Yeah. And I think the thing is, the worry is that with or without this money, whatever plan we come through, it could crash and burn in town meeting. 02:02:52,829 S4: Well, I also worry that because it's, like, lightly conflated with the school building thing. We're not actually going to be able to give them a body of like a the, the true parameters of the project and that because those things aren't working, it's like there's going to be these huge assumptions that like a school is going to go here. Mm. 02:03:12,699 S21: You know. 02:03:13,500 S4: And how does that actually work that we spent all this money and then like, if, God forbid, the opposition for one over, I don't know, it just are we throwing good money after questionable money? 02:03:23,729 S2: And that's part of the reason why I'd like to have a decision before town meeting about where the school is going to go or you know, what, what style of project, whether it's going to be all at Cutler, whether it's going to be all Winthrop, whether it's going to be both or whatever combination the the consultants and the working group come back to us with, I think that's really something we need to. 02:03:44,270 S23: What's the date that the. 02:03:45,500 S8: The building committee makes, right. The school makes it right. 02:03:47,869 S5: They need a decision by May. 02:03:49,369 S23: So yeah. 02:03:50,130 S10: It's after town meeting. I mean, Hamilton controls the location of the new school. 02:03:55,500 S23: Yeah, yeah. 02:03:56,899 S10: Let's just point blank. And we've already estimated potential revenue for the Winthrop School site. And we were prepared to mention that at town meeting. 02:04:11,729 S8: So we gone over that if we as the board. 02:04:15,069 S2: Seen that we. 02:04:15,569 S23: Haven't yet. 02:04:16,069 S10: No, no, I mean. 02:04:17,130 S8: It would be of interest. 02:04:18,100 S23: For. 02:04:18,500 S10: Yeah. I mean. 02:04:19,329 S8: We would make a recommendation. 02:04:21,529 S23: Well. 02:04:23,130 S10: We were happy to do that, but, um. 02:04:26,569 S5: I think it'll. This will likely depending on the chair. Um, it will likely be on the agenda either on the next meeting in the 18th or on Monday, April 1st. 02:04:35,000 S23: And yeah. 02:04:36,300 S10: More than happy. 02:04:36,970 S23: To. 02:04:37,529 S5: Have income. Let us know what you've been working on so that the board has all the information they need. 02:04:43,800 S10: I'm sure sure we can do that. I mean, yeah, we shared it with all the taxpayers last year. All right. 02:04:49,300 S2: Um, yeah. And, John, you're updating all your numbers right from last year's. 02:04:54,399 S23: Right? 02:04:55,100 S10: Yeah. I mean, so the capital and the capital right now that's sitting in front of the school, and the town is anywhere between 83 and $181 million, depending on how big the school is. Right? Um, if you go at the high end of the school. You know, you you know, you're up at $1,500 a year for an average sized homeowner, right? Yeah. So we'll I'll finalize this and prepare the same exhibit we prepared. 02:05:25,729 S8: Yeah. No, I just don't recall seeing offsets based on revenue. 02:05:29,100 S10: Yeah. And I haven't you know, the offset is probably $22 million over 30 years, something like that if you developed that site. So I'll put that on the, you know, document. Again this is good faith estimates. 02:05:44,800 S8: Yeah. No I understood. 02:05:46,100 S10: Over you know so so the point is, you know, just a quick comment on Carolyn's point. Um, you really need to have some professional, you know, consultants augment the staff of the town because none of us have time or expertise to do it. 02:06:05,800 S23: That's. 02:06:06,630 S10: I've thought the same thing you've mentioned is, you know, we're spending a fair amount of money, But, um, I think you really need, you know, you really need to, um, bring some smart people in who know how to do this stuff. 02:06:19,970 S2: So, speaking of smart people. Jay Butler, you got your hand raised. 02:06:24,270 S23: Nice one. 02:06:27,369 S6: Yeah. My question on this, uh, two dash 12. How come there's no mention of the MBTA communities law? That's a fairly well mentioned topic. And yet it doesn't say that in this article. 02:06:42,029 S2: Yeah. I think, Joe, you want to speak to that. 02:06:43,869 S23: Yeah. Well, I would. 02:06:44,500 S5: Say that the article is to see if the town will transfer free cash for the same, blah, blah, blah. Uh, we can certainly add the brief summary here isn't built out yet, and I think that we would add into the brief summary what the plan for the 125,000 is. Uh, I would add that one of the things that actually has me a little bit more optimistic about this process is that both the Planning Board and the Hamilton Development Corporation have backed the idea and support it. And what? Are engaged in helping get it through. So those two boards have their own, I guess, constituencies that they could bring, uh, bring to the table. So in terms of actively engaging the public, you would at least be able to get a little bit more buy in or advancement from the business community and from the folks in town who tend to pay attention to zoning. 02:07:31,770 S7: And when you guys were talking about three a that's, that's that's what that. 02:07:35,699 S23: Was, that's. 02:07:36,270 S2: What that's what Jay is referring to. 02:07:37,670 S23: Yeah. 02:07:38,329 S10: So Jay, you're saying write it up and put it in there so people can read it. 02:07:42,899 S23: Noted. 02:07:43,270 S5: I will. 02:07:43,529 S23: Do that. Yeah. 02:07:45,130 S6: Full disclosure. 02:07:46,369 S23: Yeah. 02:07:46,670 S8: Help with. 02:07:47,170 S23: Uh. 02:07:47,770 S8: Extension on a timeline if it's in the narrative of. 02:07:50,729 S2: Yeah, yeah. And and I would say if, if we can maybe a conversation with HTC or Planning board or, or one of us stand up in the meeting, say HTC and Planning Board support this as well besides finance advisory and select board. So you've got four boards saying they're there in favor of it instead of just the two of us. You know, and they're they're really the ones that are going to be directly impacted by it. I mean, we're all going to be directly impacted by it, but they're the ones that are going to be carrying the weight of it. 02:08:20,130 S8: So expected request 125. 02:08:23,300 S5: We won't ask for more. HTC has agreed to offer up to $25,000, so the total budget for the project could be about $150,000. 02:08:30,699 S8: So they have agreed on 25,000? 02:08:32,470 S23: Yes. 02:08:33,670 S10: And and why is it a warrant article? It's in the budget. So are we doing it just for transparency? 02:08:43,569 S23: Yeah, I think it's more transparency. I mean, okay. 02:08:47,899 S10: I was just curious. 02:08:49,130 S11: I would note that this could be included on the consent agenda. 02:08:52,500 S23: But it. 02:08:53,300 S11: Doesn't sound. 02:08:54,069 S23: Like that is likely to be the case. Appreciate that. Thanks. 02:08:58,399 S10: I'm sure people are going to want to know. 02:09:00,069 S23: About 3 a.m. to. 02:09:02,300 S2: We we you know, people all know the three a zoning kind of threat that's overwhelming all of our communities. 02:09:08,170 S23: So I think. 02:09:09,470 S2: It's good to say we're trying that we're even I want to say we're being proactive, but we're not quite being proactive, but we're we're trying to. 02:09:16,569 S23: Be. 02:09:16,800 S10: You might get asked why. 02:09:18,029 S5: Yeah, why it took us so long. 02:09:19,170 S10: Why did it take us so long? 02:09:20,369 S23: Right. Yeah. 02:09:21,970 S5: Fortunately I can I can, um, deflect a little and say that the the new school project and the the master plan that we've just finished, uh, kind of slowed down our timeline because we weren't sure where we were with on that process, but on the with the school parcel. 02:09:37,329 S10: So we have a plan for our plan. 02:09:39,529 S23: Yes, yes. Noted. 02:09:43,170 S2: All right. Do we make a motion on this yet? 02:09:45,930 S16: So I'll make a motion for favorable recommendation on article two dash 12. 02:09:51,229 S23: All right. 02:09:52,000 S8: Second. 02:09:52,529 S2: All right. Uh, all those in favor say aye. Aye aye. All right. 02:09:57,869 S10: Finn, come. 02:09:59,100 S23: Do you wanna say something? 02:10:00,199 S7: I moved at the fin com vote. Federal action on article two 212. 02:10:04,670 S10: Second and roll call. 02:10:08,170 S17: Perry, Philip. 02:10:10,270 S15: John I. 02:10:12,029 S7: Christina Hargrove I. 02:10:14,500 S10: And John McGrath I Alex. You there. Don't make me lost them. Great. Thank you. 02:10:26,699 S2: All right. Article two. 02:10:30,829 S23: Go ahead. 02:10:31,199 S4: I was going to ask, um. 02:10:32,970 S21: Is it. 02:10:33,229 S4: A big deal to take them out. 02:10:34,199 S21: Or take one out of order? 02:10:36,229 S2: Yeah. Which one? 02:10:37,470 S21: Well, I think Mr.. 02:10:38,500 S4: Knudsen has to leave. And he was here for 3-1. 02:10:42,300 S10: Jamie? 02:10:43,630 S21: Yes. 02:10:43,869 S4: He's hungry. He didn't have dinner. 02:10:45,470 S2: You got to have dinner in basketball. 02:10:47,300 S23: What's going on? 02:10:47,869 S4: So I just thought maybe it would. 02:10:49,670 S2: Would the boards be okay if we took a little bit out of order here for Mr. Knudsen? 02:10:53,069 S23: Uh, sure. 02:10:54,170 S2: Agenda. 02:10:55,869 S4: Oh, nice for you that you get to go eat. 02:10:57,970 S23: Yeah. 02:10:59,229 S8: I just like having you around. 02:11:01,869 S10: So. 02:11:02,569 S2: All right. Uh, so if no one's opposed to it, we'll move on to three one, uh, resolution, state flag and seal. Uh, and this is to see if the town will vote to approve a resolution in support of changing the state flag in the seal of the Commonwealth, of our great state of Massachusetts, set forth in appendix G, or take any action there in a relatively there to this obviously has no impact on the tax rate. Um, but this is just talking about the state seal, uh, in the state flag that Mr. Knudsen and others in the Commonwealth believe that is antiquated and not inclusive. And at the state level, there's been a couple of committees over the years that have agreed with Mr. Knudsen in the Human Rights Commission's opinion on it, but they haven't moved any farther than that. They think it should be changed. Jamie, do you wanna say anything else? 02:12:01,300 S2: I mean, you've been here all this time. I'd hate to have you not say anything. 02:12:06,369 S21: Uh. 02:12:08,369 S15: I mean. 02:12:10,670 S24: I don't know that I need to say anything more than I've said it past meetings. Um. It is. It's just a recommendation to the legislature. Write it. So a number of towns, 80 or so, have done that. Um, a number on the North Shore have, although, uh, there is one town on the North Shore that voted against it, but a number of others that have voted in favor of it. Um, 02:12:42,600 S24: I know that there probably are some people that, um, may not be may not have really given a lot of thought, like myself, to what the flag actually has on it and why it is, um, uh, not inclusive, as Sean said. Um, I won't make that presentation now, but it is available at. Change the mass. 02:13:15,430 S24: Um. 02:13:18,569 S24: So. 02:13:19,029 S10: And, Jamie, are you. 02:13:19,770 S24: Going to I can answer. 02:13:20,729 S10: Are you going to move this at the meeting? Tom? Meeting? 02:13:24,670 S24: Uh, if you guys tell me to. Yes. 02:13:27,000 S2: Are you fine with that? 02:13:28,100 S23: Yeah. Okay. 02:13:29,930 S8: I move that, Jamie. 02:13:33,270 S21: I have a quick question. 02:13:34,670 S4: Just in light of the way that we've treated some of these other ones, which is like the recommendation of the board is not really a bearing because it has nothing to do with. 02:13:45,000 S5: Well, in this case, this board sponsored the article. The board placed this on a warrant. It's not a citizen's petition question. It's not coming from you. You're doing it on the advice of the Hamilton Human Rights Commission, that it made the request of you. But the board placed this on. So your recommendation would ostensibly carry some weight. But it is. It is just a resolution. 02:14:03,899 S23: Yeah. 02:14:04,300 S8: So do we feel the legislature needs a nudge on this or didn't just last November? They advise a committee or a group get together to recommend a new motto and flag or or do they need a push, or do we feel like they are moving towards a solution and then that could be adopted? 02:14:22,569 S24: Yeah, I mean, the so the movement among indigenous peoples, uh, they feel like, yes, they the legislature needs some more push because this effort has been underway for a good 40 decade. I mean, 40 years or so. Yeah. Um, so all that, I mean, I shouldn't say all that happened. It was a big step, right? They they appointed the commission. The commission made a recommendation. Made a recommendation? Um, Two. Absolutely, 100% change the state flag. It's not clear what it's being changed to, but they so the commission made the recommendation. But that's still not the legislature. 02:15:04,529 S23: Right. Right. 02:15:06,500 S8: And nobody's come up with a recommendation yet. Right. Just a. 02:15:10,670 S23: No. 02:15:11,000 S24: There is not a clear recommendation for a change. 02:15:17,430 S10: So you want them to finish the process, study it. Engage 02:15:25,069 S10: in. Finish. 02:15:26,029 S24: Yes. And I guess the other change, the other thing I'd say so in your packet or or at least in the select board packet, right, is appendix G which does have the resolution itself. Um. 02:15:41,430 S8: All right. Yeah. I mean, Caroline, your point, though I do think it's the type of article that yes, we put it on there, but in interest of allowing our constituents, the community to to voice their opinion on it. I guess, you know, how is it different than we recommend it? I guess we could, but, um, my biggest thing here is, though, I want to hear the will of the people. 02:16:02,000 S4: Yeah, it just feels like it just. I'm not like we will still personally vote and I, I personally, but I'm like, does the board need to have like, I don't know, it seems like we're basically saying like everyone vote. 02:16:14,270 S2: So I would say that we would. My opinion is that we would recommend favorable action on this because we're in effect, sponsoring it. It would seem weird if we didn't recommend any favorable action on it or whatever. I mean, I agree that we want the will of the people to be heard, but we're sponsoring it, so it would seem a little awkward. 02:16:34,200 S23: Would you? 02:16:34,729 S5: Could I could I offer to that? For instance, two years ago, when the town had adopted the resolution to become a net zero carbon community by 2040, that was also offered by the Select Board, the board chose to do that rather than wait for the group, the citizens group, to put together a together. Citizens petition. And you did vote to make recommend favorable action on it. 02:16:55,670 S23: Yeah. 02:16:56,170 S4: And again that one though again I don't we all want to get out of here. That one though, it's like our town. It's in the interest of our town. We're doing this thing and we're saying like do it. Yeah. Like there's implementation. There's things we do as a government. Whereas this one sort of like we're saying like, does the town of Hamilton want to support this? We're asking the question, and if you all say, yes, we're going to go forward. If y'all say no, we're not have no problem putting recommendation. It just seems strange in our capacity that we're using our personal opinions about the flag in that way. I don't know. 02:17:26,200 S8: Because there's no action for us to move this forward other than. 02:17:30,069 S2: A letter. 02:17:30,569 S8: Voicing our opinion. We could. Yeah. 02:17:33,200 S23: Yeah. 02:17:33,600 S10: But speaking as a citizen, you folks were elected to represent the taxpayers and we appreciate your learned opinions. 02:17:46,370 S23: Yeah. 02:17:47,700 S10: It's a little scary, but. 02:17:50,700 S23: But I mean that's. 02:17:51,729 S4: Yeah. No, that's totally fine. And I think I was just splitting hairs that there's certain ones where sometimes I feel like we're saying to the citizens, this is a thing that in our learned opinion is the right thing and let's do it. And then there's other things where we're saying, this has come to us, and we want your opinion, and if you want it, we will do it. It just it just. But again go. 02:18:11,770 S21: Forth. 02:18:13,100 S24: Well can I may I say two things on that? 02:18:19,030 S24: Respectfully, I'd say that it is very much something that I think the Select board should make a recommendation on, that it's important as to the type of community that we are. And number two, if you I would I'd rather have you take it off the warrant than either recommend unfavorable or take, you know, say I'm not giving any recommendation. Yeah. That's me personally. I'm not necessarily speaking. 02:18:48,600 S23: For the. 02:18:48,899 S24: Whole Human Rights Commission on that. Just my. 02:18:52,069 S23: Personal. Yeah. 02:18:53,370 S8: Do you want the town to stand behind this recommendation? 02:18:55,899 S23: Yes. 02:18:56,370 S8: We are the town leaders. 02:18:57,729 S21: That's totally fair. 02:19:00,170 S23: Very fair. 02:19:00,670 S24: If you don't think it's important, take it off the warrant. 02:19:03,600 S23: All right. 02:19:05,969 S2: So here we are. 02:19:09,799 S21: Well, I. 02:19:10,370 S4: Move that we recommend favorable action on three dash. 02:19:14,969 S23: One second. 02:19:17,299 S2: All right. 02:19:17,799 S8: Two. Right now. Do I have it wrong? 02:19:21,370 S16: 3-1. 02:19:22,799 S2: All right. Um, any further discussion? 02:19:25,569 S23: Nope. 02:19:25,930 S2: All right. All those in favor say aye. 02:19:27,930 S23: Yep. 02:19:28,600 S2: Ayes have. 02:19:29,200 S23: It. 02:19:29,930 S2: Unanimous. Fin com. Do you care to weigh in on this? 02:19:34,200 S10: I think. 02:19:34,670 S23: We should learn an. 02:19:35,200 S10: Opinion. I think we. 02:19:36,129 S23: Should. I think we. 02:19:37,200 S10: Should take a. 02:19:37,770 S23: Vote. 02:19:38,370 S10: What do you think? Fin, come. 02:19:39,600 S15: I'm fine taking a vote now. 02:19:40,899 S10: I would say. Yeah. 02:19:42,329 S15: I don't want to discuss it further. I'm open to that too, but I move that we recommend favorable action on article three. 02:19:51,569 S7: One second. 02:19:54,569 S17: Harry Philippi. 02:19:57,399 S15: John I. 02:19:59,430 S7: Christina Shank Hargrove, I. 02:20:02,569 S10: John McGrath I. 02:20:06,829 S10: Okay. 02:20:08,229 S23: Thank you. 02:20:09,600 S2: Thank you. Jamie. 02:20:10,600 S23: Now, return to our normal program. 02:20:12,100 S8: Enjoy your dinner. 02:20:13,100 S2: Uh, back to, uh. 02:20:15,200 S10: Yeah, we gotta get we gotta get J. 02:20:16,870 S23: Uh, Butler. 02:20:17,969 S2: And we've got, uh. Back to Mr. Butler here. We've got our CPC articles. Um, are we here? Articles two. 02:20:28,229 S5: Two dash 13. 02:20:29,129 S2: Two dash 13, which is our overall community preservation budget. And I'll kind of just go through all of them. Then we can discuss each the community preservation affordable housing trust grant, uh, community housing. Sorry. Community preservation Housing production plan grant. Community preservation. Antique fire truck. Building. And is that it? 02:20:53,299 S23: That's it. That's it. 02:20:54,170 S2: And, uh. Jay, what? We've got you on the line. Do you want to relay the, uh, CPC's recommendations, even though I already know what they are? 02:21:02,870 S6: Well, every one of them was unanimous. Six zero. 02:21:06,899 S10: There you go. That's an efficient board right there. 02:21:10,399 S23: Yeah. 02:21:11,829 S2: And and as Mr. Butler knows and council knows, we had a few things. And Wendy, that was kind of like housekeeping stuff that I think is part of this. 02:21:20,399 S21: Well, yes. 02:21:21,829 S20: Where the funds are going to come from. 02:21:23,270 S23: Right. 02:21:24,270 S5: That will all be in the appendix F of the first article. 213 correct. 02:21:29,229 S11: So in appendix F, there was a it was missing a couple of numbers when I put it together. And there was one item that I had a question on. So we'll just need to clarify that. But at the time when I put the warrant together, we were missing the number for the administrative costs. So that will need to be inserted if it hasn't been. 02:21:52,569 S23: Wendy I'll give you that now. 02:21:53,569 S11: Okay. 02:21:54,930 S20: The administrative expenses is $30,195.12. 02:22:00,899 S21: That's okay. 02:22:02,100 S11: Okay. And then, um, there was a figure for the town hall debt service as well that needed to be $345,424.31. 02:22:19,430 S21: We're getting that from two places. 02:22:21,129 S20: Two places. Right. So that's the housekeeping we do have to do. We have to say which fund it's coming from. 02:22:26,430 S23: Right. 02:22:26,729 S20: So we'll we'll work that out. 02:22:28,530 S2: And just for folks at home and folks here, if you don't if we're speaking gibberish to you, it's because the CPC budget and we've got kind of one number of funds, but within that amount of funds we have these is we call them buckets for historic preservation, open space and recreation and historic preservation. And then we have an admin and whatever doesn't get paid at it. We have to pay a certain amount of each of those accounts for our grants. And then if it isn't, it goes into kind of a general fund within our budget. And so there's a lot of moving parts and numbers depending on where things come from. And over the years, depending where we're pulling the money from which bucket, sometimes it gets a little confusing. And this is kind of cleanup of some of those items. So make sure things are coming from the right places. Um. 02:23:15,700 S11: With respect to the town hall project, that, are we going to include it in the CPC budget article or is that going to be a separate article? 02:23:25,799 S5: I think our feeling was that you would recommend it to be as part of the budget article. 02:23:29,299 S11: So we can I just wanted to make sure I basically modeled it after there was an item in the budget for the last few years with to Appropriate $103,000 and change roughly from the Open space recreation for the Sagamore Hill Conservation Project. So I used essentially the same format for the town hall project, but that was all coming from one source. I mean, we can have it come from two sources, but. 02:24:00,100 S21: Um, that's how the CTC voted. 02:24:02,629 S2: We voted it from two sources. So let's call it out. 02:24:06,129 S23: From. 02:24:06,399 S20: You want me to tell you what it is? Yeah, sure. So for the, um, historic preservation project 11,000 is coming from Historic Preservation Fund and $334,424.31 02:24:20,329 S20: is coming from the preservation undesignated fund unreserved. 02:24:27,629 S11: Well, can you say that number again? 02:24:29,270 S21: Sure. 02:24:29,629 S20: Three. Three. Four. Four. Two. Four. $0.31. 02:24:34,469 S23: Okay. Thank you. Sure. 02:24:38,270 S11: Yeah, we can include it in the budget that way, but, um, it just obviously would need to be broken down. Typically, the budget, at least last year, was part of the consent calendar as well. 02:24:50,469 S23: Hey. 02:24:51,299 S2: J, do you remember we talked to the meeting about maybe putting it on the consent as we have in the past? 02:24:58,770 S6: Well, we did talk about it, but quite frankly, this is the first time the voters will see the first year impact of the full Mann and grants we approved. Right. I think I think on the Sagamore Hill, we put it on a separate warrant article the first year, and then we buried it in the consent agenda. Every year afterwards, I would think that since we're going into the first year of this bond, we would want to highlight it as as a separate warrant article. 02:25:29,200 S2: I think that's fair. 02:25:30,870 S23: Yeah. 02:25:31,969 S11: So you want to make it a completely separate article or just. 02:25:34,969 S23: No. 02:25:35,500 S5: It'll be in the budget. 02:25:36,430 S23: In the budget, but we won't. 02:25:37,899 S5: Budget in the. 02:25:38,500 S23: Content. 02:25:38,870 S2: It'll be called out in it, but we won't have it. 02:25:40,700 S23: Okay. 02:25:41,100 S11: That's fine. And when will the bond be paid off for the town hall project? 02:25:45,530 S20: I can. 02:25:46,069 S21: Look. 02:25:47,569 S23: Here. Bond. 02:25:49,170 S11: Okay. Thank you. 02:25:55,069 S21: Transfers can be in the budget. 02:25:57,870 S11: They can. That was the other question I had in the notes that I received. There was an indication that there was going to be a transfer of $22,000 from unreserved, so I wasn't sure what that was and where it was going. 02:26:13,000 S20: That was the difference. So, Jay, did you want to speak to this? 02:26:16,129 S6: Yeah. Last year at the ATM, as as most of you know, we're supposed to transfer at 10% of our total revenue into any, any of the three accounts that we don't have a bond running or have a grant, and we're supposed to transfer 71 grand into these two accounts. Last year at the ATM, and because we had a lot of moving parts and people changing jobs, we only transferred 60,000. So this is a make up action to make. 02:26:47,370 S11: Where's the 22 going? 02:26:49,000 S20: Community housing 11,000. And Historic preservation 11,000. There's nothing going into open space and recreation. 02:26:55,899 S5: Because of the. 02:26:56,329 S23: Pond. Because of the pond. 02:26:59,170 S6: This is a make up action from a clerical error last year. 02:27:02,600 S2: Right. This is just housekeeping. 02:27:04,370 S23: Yeah. 02:27:04,700 S6: Housekeeping. It's internal transfer of funds. 02:27:07,530 S23: Right? Nothing. 02:27:08,399 S2: The money's there. We're just. 02:27:10,100 S6: They were just moving it around. 02:27:11,469 S23: Okay. 02:27:12,600 S11: Yeah. So we'll have to. So 11,000 community housing and. 02:27:16,530 S23: 11,000 reservations for the preservation. Okay. 02:27:19,399 S20: There will be no transfer for open space and recreation. 02:27:22,299 S23: All right. 02:27:26,399 S11: Yes. Yeah. We would just include it as another line item in the budget as item six. Just transfers. 02:27:33,370 S5: All right. 02:27:35,270 S2: All right. Um, anybody want to make a recommendation. 02:27:38,530 S5: On this one? 02:27:38,930 S8: I mean, don't you think we need appendix F and the specified projects to vote on it? 02:27:43,930 S11: It's in. It should be in the package. 02:27:47,200 S5: But we just made a whole bunch of changes to it, I don't think. I don't have any. Yeah. Um, can we can we pick up the 18th? 02:27:54,870 S2: Somebody say that word, though? That fancy word. 02:27:58,370 S5: Table. Perfect. 02:28:00,329 S8: 318. 02:28:01,969 S2: Joe can say it, but it doesn't count, right? 02:28:04,600 S5: Okay. 02:28:05,170 S2: I just want to. 02:28:05,670 S5: Make sure just leading the witness on that one. We just. We just want to make sure we get all all of what we just discussed with the transfers and the mountains and everything all in one appendix F, so that. 02:28:13,729 S10: In the exhibits. 02:28:14,729 S5: And you can see it, and then you'll know what you're voting on. So we'll, we'll. 02:28:17,399 S10: Hold until we have the final. 02:28:19,270 S8: Okay. 02:28:19,969 S10: All the final. 02:28:20,469 S8: Docs. So I can see by the 18th exactly. Okay. 02:28:24,430 S2: All right. Uh, two dash 14 was community preservation for affordable housing trust. Um, and this is to take some money and give it to the Affordable Housing Trust. There is a number up there for. 02:28:36,870 S5: This $500,000. 02:28:37,899 S2: 500,000 for a grant to the trust. 02:28:42,899 S20: This this has also broken out two different funds. 02:28:47,270 S2: So does. 02:28:48,670 S20: Not give the. 02:28:49,229 S2: Doesn't down there. Do you want to send it to him or. 02:28:51,069 S20: Do you want me to tell you, Tom? 02:28:52,899 S5: Uh, sure. 02:28:54,469 S20: Sure. Um, so $310,945 will be coming from Community Housing Reserve, and $189,055 will be coming from the unreserved. 02:29:10,100 S2: Jay, do you want to say anything? 02:29:13,229 S21: No. 02:29:13,870 S6: Do you have any questions of what it is? 02:29:16,629 S8: Yeah. There are specific projects that support that. 02:29:19,229 S2: No. 02:29:20,030 S6: Well. 02:29:21,200 S2: Great. And if I can speak for you, Jay, and you can add if I've got something wrong. But, um, in the past, we've given grants to the Affordable Housing Trust, and they haven't been earmarked for anything because we wanted to give the affordable housing trust some fluidity on supporting projects, buying land, different things like that and not have to wait on a town meeting, vote, etc.. So, you know, if the timeline didn't work for requests from the CPC, wanted to give them flexibility on it. 02:29:53,229 S8: Yeah, I think. 02:29:53,670 S2: That and we've done that many times. 02:29:55,530 S8: Yeah, that makes sense. But do we so do we know the balance that they have for their fluidity? 02:29:59,930 S2: Uh, they're actually not going to be so fluid because they're giving a grant to the, uh, 40 be over at Asbury Commons, which which will pretty much 250,000, which I think gets some close to nothing when they're done. 02:30:16,770 S21: About 50,000. 02:30:17,870 S2: Yeah. 02:30:19,270 S8: Thanks for coming. 02:30:25,700 S2: So any other questions on that? Jay, did I miss anything on that? 02:30:28,770 S6: No, it's just that the the the genesis. Genesis for the Affordable Housing Trust to ask for this money is is their intent to use it to help support Asbury Commons. Right. The new affordable apartment complex being developed as a 40 be on Asbury Street. 02:30:48,670 S2: Right. So community partners had come to the CDC asking for roughly $1 million, but we didn't have it. So we gave them what we could. And then the Affordable Housing Trust, giving them another 250. So they're getting about 7 or 750 total instead of a million. 02:31:02,500 S8: So we think this all this five will go to that. We think. 02:31:04,670 S2: All of it. 02:31:05,069 S8: Will. Yeah. Okay. So 750 out of the million will. 02:31:07,670 S2: Yeah. 02:31:08,399 S8: Okay. Yeah. 02:31:12,170 S2: So anybody want to make a motion on us? 02:31:13,870 S8: I move that we approve article. We recommend approval action on article two dash 14. 02:31:21,129 S21: Second. 02:31:21,870 S2: All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye aye. I. 02:31:27,600 S10: Think I will take a vote. J had come to our meeting last week and walked us through everything. So I think we can vote on these three. Can we get a motion? 02:31:42,670 S15: I move that we recommend favorable action on article two dash. 02:31:48,129 S10: 14. 02:31:48,569 S15: 1414. 02:31:49,399 S10: Yep. 02:31:50,170 S21: Second. 02:31:50,600 S15: Thanks. 02:31:51,969 S17: Harry. Followed by. 02:31:54,969 S15: John. 02:31:56,600 S7: Christina Hargrove. 02:31:58,969 S10: And John McGrath. 02:32:04,370 S2: All right. Housing production plan. Grant from the CPC. This is for. I believe it's $40,000. 02:32:10,469 S5: Is that right? 02:32:10,969 S2: Yes, $40,000. And this will go to update our, um, housing production plan. 02:32:17,870 S11: Are there any of the CPC articles that you'd like to include on the consent agenda? The last one, for example, could be included, but I kind of assume, given the amount and that, that there were various questions here, that that's not something that you would want to put on the consent agenda, but it could be. 02:32:35,270 S2: Other than our annual budget, we've always kept it separate. 02:32:38,670 S16: That's fine. Yeah. 02:32:46,030 S2: Any questions on the affordable housing production plan? If somebody doesn't have any, they could make a motion. So we could move this along. 02:32:57,700 S21: Uh, I'm reading it. Okay. 02:33:04,200 S8: And this is required, right? Actually, every three years that we update our housing production. 02:33:08,500 S5: Every five. 02:33:08,969 S2: Years, every five. 02:33:09,700 S8: Five. 02:33:09,899 S2: Years. And we did it in 2000 and. 02:33:12,799 S5: It wound up being approved in 2018. It was 2017 plan. It ended up being. 02:33:16,170 S8: So we're due. Yeah. 02:33:17,270 S21: Yeah. So I moved that this look would recommend favorable action on article two. 02:33:23,899 S16: 15 second. 02:33:26,270 S2: All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye. 02:33:28,299 S25: I think, um. 02:33:31,229 S15: Move that we recommend favorable action on article two dash 15. 02:33:35,629 S7: Second. 02:33:37,270 S17: Harry fall by. 02:33:39,170 S15: John I. 02:33:40,500 S7: Christina Hargrove I. 02:33:42,930 S10: John McGrath I. 02:33:45,469 S2: All right. Moving right along. Uh, CPA grant for antique fire truck building. Uh, this is the amount of $150,000. 02:33:55,899 S2: Um. 02:33:57,299 S21: I move that we recommend favorable action on article 216. 02:34:01,100 S8: Second. 02:34:02,670 S2: Any discussion? 02:34:03,500 S21: No. 02:34:04,170 S2: All those in favor? 02:34:05,629 S8: Will somebody to present this or show pictures? 02:34:08,569 S2: Yes. And Jake can speak to this. We typically have Jay talk about them. And then if if there's other proponents in this case, um, it was an amazing model for the little building that it's pretty cool to see, but I don't know if we'll bring it to town meeting. 02:34:26,799 S5: Take pictures of it, put it up on the screen. 02:34:28,299 S2: But yeah, we can take some pictures of it. Maybe. Lori, if you want to reach out, maybe we can take a couple snapshots of it. Yeah, talk to Ray and stuff. 02:34:36,329 S6: I think you parked the truck out front. 02:34:39,370 S2: Yeah, that's a great idea, Jay. We could. We could do. 02:34:44,969 S5: Yeah. I'd take a ride on it. 02:34:47,270 S2: And maybe Lori asking if they want to park it out front of town meeting. 02:34:52,270 S15: Pinkham I move that we recommend favorable action on article two dash 16 second. 02:34:59,870 S21: Okay. 02:35:00,899 S17: Harry. Followed by. 02:35:02,530 S15: John. 02:35:03,329 S7: I Kristina Shankar Grove I. 02:35:06,000 S10: John McGrath I. 02:35:09,969 S10: Okay. 02:35:10,770 S2: All right. Um, we're getting there. 02:35:12,969 S21: This is the one that we have. 02:35:14,500 S4: To do it. We don't. 02:35:15,329 S21: Know the some yet, though, is that. 02:35:17,469 S5: We know what's in there now. We don't. 02:35:19,870 S2: Ever gonna. 02:35:20,530 S5: Be. It's $7,709.33 this year. It's what we currently have received in opioid settlement funds. 02:35:28,129 S11: What's the number? Zero seven. 02:35:29,329 S5: $7,719.33? 02:35:32,569 S10: Joe. Joe, could you do a quick recap on this? 02:35:35,829 S2: Yeah. Just so this is article two Dash 17 to see if the town will vote in accordance with provisions of chapter 77 of the acts of 2023 and transfer, blah, blah, from, um, the Opioid Special Revenue Fund. 02:35:51,200 S5: So last year, the town, like many towns in the state of Massachusetts, started receiving funds from settlement with the opioid companies over the increase in opioid addiction and the, the, the way that those companies were marketing their drugs. Um, as part of that, the settlement required that the funds could only be spent in a certain way. The. We've been waiting for about a year for DLS to tell us how to kind of account for those funds, because there are only certain things we can spend on them. We finally got a guidance from the from DLS this last month or so, recommending that we set up a separate special fund, special revenue fund for the money to go into and that be designated that only certain things could be extended out of it, and therefore it wouldn't require annual action by town meeting. This. Is that correct? Right. Yeah. So this is the establishment of that fund. It's considered a best practice for us to do it this way. We have sequestered the funds within the general fund until now. And so this will now put those funds into a very transparent way. So when we get our annual payments, and our belief is that over the 10 or 15 years of these settlements getting paid out to towns, Hamilton is only going to get around 45 to $60,000. We're not expecting any more than that. We got about $7,700 last year. Um, the payments will go down over time. So this gives the Department of Health, the public Health Department a fund to attack the opioid addiction problem in town. In town? So? 02:37:34,100 S10: So this is not a spending article. This is just the establishment. 02:37:38,370 S5: It's to create the fund and then the terms of the fund allow the the Department of Health, with the town manager's approval, to spend the funds on things that are specifically allowed to be spent on. 02:37:49,170 S11: Right. It's essentially an accounting issue. So it allows the creation of a separate fund for the purposes of receiving any settlement monies from the opioid settlement. There's very specific guidance in the settlement documents, as well as from the Attorney General's office, with respect to what those funds can be expended for, and it just makes the accounting for that more simpler. And my recollection, too, is that you do not need further town meeting authorization to expend those funds for those purposes once they're in that special account. 02:38:25,069 S5: So without this fund, all funds are general funds or general fund funds. So then you need to appropriate them from through town meeting. So this this streamlines that process. So if we get a sum of money there say we get 10 or 15,000 built up after a couple of years in the public health department identifies something that could dramatically help the way we treat opioid illness in the community. They have the flexibility to do that because the funds are there and it's not a general fund appropriation. 02:38:54,200 S10: Thanks, Joe. 02:38:55,469 S11: And this could be a consent agenda item if you wanted it to be. 02:39:00,270 S21: That sounds like an excellent idea. 02:39:02,870 S2: You want to thank you. 02:39:03,600 S21: Thank you. 02:39:04,299 S4: I move that the. 02:39:05,530 S21: Board. 02:39:05,899 S4: Recommend favorable. 02:39:06,729 S21: Action on article two dash 17. 02:39:09,500 S2: Second, all those in favor? All right. Consent agenda. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh, we've been com. Oh, sorry. Fin com. 02:39:19,170 S10: Think I want to do this. 02:39:20,600 S15: I move that we recommend favorable action on article two dash 17. 02:39:24,930 S7: Second. 02:39:27,399 S17: By. 02:39:28,530 S15: John I. 02:39:30,030 S7: Christina Hargrove I. 02:39:32,100 S11: And it does say CPC in there as well. But that was a typo. It was just when I was recapping the recommendation from a prior article. 02:39:39,729 S10: John McGrath I. 02:39:41,170 S21: Look it up. 02:39:42,170 S2: Thank you. Thanks. 3-2 Acceptance of General Law. Chapter 32 subsection four. Parentheses two. Parentheses b c. If the town will vote to accept provisions, as I just said, which allows, call firefighters and reserve police officers who subsequently become permanent members of the fire department or police department, and thus members of the Essex Regional Retirement System to be credited for more than five years of service allowed by statute or any or take any action therein or relative to there to. 02:40:12,670 S5: I had a question for Tom to us, um, when I was reading the the the way this article was worded today, my question came up. It says to be credited for more than five years, but should we be calling out the fact that they actually have to buy that time back as well? It's not just being credited. So the Tom will explain more fully in depth or answer questions. But currently the state law allows a firefighter call firefighter or reservist who becomes a full time employee and in the same time where they were call or reservist to, uh, purchase back up to five years of of towards retirement based on a formula. This would allow us for those people that have more than that, that become full timers, would allow them to buy buy back an additional amount of time beyond the five years, subject to a certain formulation that requires, you know, accounting for so many hours of response time in a month to get them. A month's worth of time. And then they would have to pay their share of that for it to be credited. Um, couple of things that came to light as we discussed this since the last meeting last week. We have a couple of people that would be that could potentially be impacted by this in the current department, as most of the people who have in the current department had been, uh, call firefighters in the town previously. But going forward, if the town does intend to expand the fire service at some point, they're likely not going to necessarily be looking for people who have 15 to 20 years of call firefighter experience. They'll look like going to be looking more likely for people who've only had 3 or 4 years of experience. So this may not even come into play down the road for many of the people we hire in the future. But it will give the ability for some of those that we currently have on staff to purchase back some of the time that they did put in. Did I get that right? 02:42:04,129 S11: Yes. So this was when we talked about it at the last meeting, and it indicated that Tim Sussan, who's my one of my colleagues who works in the labor and employment area, was away on vacation. So I had waiting to get some feedback from him. So essentially, if by accepting this statute, which I understand, the Essex Regional Retirement System also has to take action, which according to the website, they haven't, although Joe indicated that they have contacted him and other folks have contacted him to say that they actually have taken whatever action they needed to take. But essentially, under the statute, if you are a call a firefighter or reserve police officer and you get hired by that town department, you can buy back up to your up to five years automatically. By statute, there's no local action that's required in order to allow that to happen. This by accepting the this local acceptance provision of the statute. It will allow folks to buy back more than the five years that they're currently allowed to buy back by statute. 02:43:10,370 S10: What's it mean to buy back? Like, what do they have to. 02:43:13,370 S8: Do. 02:43:13,799 S6: Part of the part or. 02:43:14,430 S5: Part of being in or in a in in the retirement system is that you pay a portion of your salary, goes into fund your part of the retirement, and then the town matches it and you get vested after you've been in the system for ten years. Call firefighters and reservists because they're not full time, aren't allowed that option. So once they become full time, if they can account for the number of hours that would require the accrual of hours towards retirement, they can pay that out of their own pocket, the share that they would have paid if they'd been employed full time. They could pay out of their own pocket to buy that time back. And then then the town would then become, um, you know, obligated to meet its response on the other end when they retire. 02:43:52,799 S11: But yeah. So there is a financial impact, obviously, to the town associated with this. It's not just completely funded by the individual, but it does allow somebody. And there's a formula. 02:44:05,000 S2: Yeah. Yeah. There's like. It's not like if you've been a call for five years, you get five years. Correct. 02:44:10,469 S11: It depends on how many. 02:44:11,430 S2: Calls or a certain number of calls. And b, you know, there's a there's a whole ratio. 02:44:15,329 S5: After you've done work. And and so, you know, ten years of service on the call fire department might only result in 4 or 5 years of accruals depending on how much how part time you really work. 02:44:26,069 S10: So thanks. 02:44:30,370 S8: So sorry if I don't understand it. Thank you for asking that question. Has it grown in scope or participation in the week last week since we discussed it? Based on feedback? I'm sorry. Has it grown in scope and impact to the town now from what the initial intent was? 02:44:48,370 S5: I don't think it's grown in scope from what the initial intent was. And since last week, if anything, I feel more comfortable that this isn't going to necessarily be something that financially burdens us down the road. As I said, at this point, if the town is seeking to at some point in the next couple of years, seeking to expand the full time fire force. Um, we're not going to be looking for people who've been on the call fire force for 20 or 25 years already, because those people would be much older and would be looking to rebuild the department or build a new department with younger folks. So they're not going to be likely the best candidates. Um, we're going to wind up by, you know, hiring somebody that maybe is on the call department, but only has been for 4 or 5 years, right? 02:45:24,930 S2: Or fresh out of the academy or something like that. 02:45:27,569 S5: So it's not likely that it's going to be a large, you know, problem for us down the road. We know that we have a couple people that might be eligible for it under the current. And then we have a couple of people who were call firefighters, but they were call firefighters in a different town so they wouldn't be eligible. 02:45:42,069 S2: It doesn't count. It's going to be here. Got it. And we've got about what, 27. 02:45:47,100 S5: 27 I think call firefighters. Right. 02:45:50,329 S10: And you think a couple might be eligible as we. 02:45:53,700 S5: If they if they get elevated to full time down the road. A couple currently full timers were called firefighters in our department and would be eligible if they want to, if they want to do the right. 02:46:05,670 S2: Uh, do all the. 02:46:06,329 S5: Math, do all the math, and. 02:46:08,930 S21: The. 02:46:09,000 S8: Money and the impact for us would be to match what they buy back or something. 02:46:12,600 S5: Yeah, there's a calculation percentage. Yeah. 02:46:14,370 S8: You don't have to go through it, but okay, I understand. 02:46:16,729 S16: That sounds. 02:46:17,200 S10: Okay. 02:46:18,200 S21: I move that the select word or recommend favorable action on article 3-2 02:46:25,000 S21: second. 02:46:25,969 S2: All those in favor? All right. 02:46:30,170 S10: Why don't we take a vote? 02:46:32,370 S15: I move that we recommend favorable action on article three two. 02:46:37,670 S7: Second. 02:46:39,530 S17: Harry. Philip I. 02:46:41,569 S15: John I. 02:46:43,329 S7: Kristina Shankar Grove I. 02:46:45,870 S2: Simple majority on this. 02:46:47,170 S10: Graph I. 02:46:48,200 S11: Yes that's correct. Just acceptance of the statutes of majority. 02:46:52,770 S5: Is this something that. 02:46:53,770 S2: I was. 02:46:54,100 S5: Going to say. 02:46:54,629 S11: Did you want. We could add it to the consent agenda if you'd like. 02:46:57,670 S2: What do you think? 02:47:00,670 S8: I'm okay with it. 02:47:02,270 S2: Okay. 02:47:02,799 S11: I think Bill is in favor of it. I can't see him nodding over. 02:47:06,100 S2: Mr. moderator, you. You in favor of efficiency? I think so. All right, so that was 2-33222. 02:47:17,399 S2: Excuse me. Uh, 3-3. Uh, amend the town manager act. I talked briefly with Mr. Wilson today. Um, I feel that maybe we want to discuss this a little bit more, but we can talk about it tonight. 02:47:35,700 S8: Yeah. 02:47:36,100 S2: So I think I miss getting on, but I don't want to drag out too much. We can wait till our next meeting and we can chat about it some more, but it's up to you. 02:47:44,899 S8: Yeah. I think when, um, Bill Olson and I have been meeting with Joe, we had an initial meeting, and by now you have heard or will shortly heard each of you individually, you'll kind of get some updates on where we are. But one tool we don't have, you know. From everything we talked about tonight. We got a lot of projects going on that are going to take a long period of time right now. The, the, the the town manager act only allows us to negotiate a three year contract. This would just give us the ability to do up to three, up to five years. Still could do three, 4 or 5 but give us flexibility to, you know, contract him through some of these larger projects now. It did go through legal and we do have some other options. We could do a three year. And then you know, once we're in year two we could add, you know, always stay under the three at another year or two. Or we could put some type of provision to auto renew based on criteria. So we have other tools. This is the recommended one by Tom Legal Counsel. Um, but I think we can still get there with a successful contract I think without this tool. 02:48:42,299 S2: Right. And I think and I haven't talked to Joe specifically about this, but I feel that I'd like to have him weigh in on it, but I don't want him to do it right now in a public meeting, which I'm sure. 02:48:52,370 S5: You came back. You did not know. 02:48:54,600 S8: He did not initiate it. 02:48:56,530 S2: In fairness, he and he did not initiate this war. An article for the public record. But, uh, so I'd like Bill and Bill to talk to Joe and myself at different times before our next meeting. And then a better, better sense of the the room. 02:49:11,899 S8: I guess when we brought it up, I didn't realize what we would need to go through it up to to move this. 02:49:17,200 S11: So right then I would just say, um, five years is not unusual in the sense of like for example, swamps gets charter allows for a contract with the town manager, town administrator there. 02:49:28,370 S2: Right. 02:49:28,530 S11: It's not up to five years. Yeah. So it's not outside of the realm of what is fairly commonplace. 02:49:35,100 S2: Right. So, Bill, if he could use that magic word that I can't. 02:49:38,770 S8: So we'll table this or to, uh, our next meeting. All right. 02:49:42,700 S2: Um, three four. We covered three five. We covered three six. We covered in, uh. That's it. Yeah. 02:49:51,170 S11: So just going back to the articles for the consent motion. 02:49:55,370 S5: I have, Tom, we want to compare notes. I have I have 1215. 02:49:59,430 S11: Yep. 02:49:59,770 S5: Two six. Yes two seven. Yes two eight. Yes 217. Yes. In three. Two. 02:50:06,930 S11: Exactly. Yes. 02:50:08,329 S2: All right, Mr. Buller, anything to add before we close our meeting? 02:50:13,129 S21: Uh. 02:50:14,129 S16: No. 02:50:14,930 S2: Good. 02:50:17,969 S2: The board appreciates that. 02:50:19,270 S5: I don't know how happy you made it. 02:50:22,600 S2: All right. I won't even ask new business because we got a lot on her plate next time. 02:50:26,969 S4: Perambulator. 02:50:27,729 S21: No. 02:50:28,629 S2: Uh, yes. I was just going to say I would, uh, let me get back to my top of my agenda here. We need to. We need to, um, use that magic word again if people are not opposed to it on our last table. Table it. Table. Our preamble of town boundaries. Neighboring towns. 02:50:45,829 S4: Uh, that does not mean that my enthusiasm has waned. 02:50:48,969 S5: No. 02:50:50,670 S4: In fact, I'd like to. I'd like to say on record that my enthusiasm has increased. All right. 02:50:54,770 S2: Last week. All right. So, fin com if you'd like to adjourn your meeting. 02:51:00,229 S10: Okay. I'll take a motion to adjourn. 02:51:02,399 S7: I move to adjourn. 02:51:03,500 S15: Second. 02:51:05,000 S17: Harry. Philip I. 02:51:06,469 S15: John Berlage, I. 02:51:08,229 S7: Shankar Grove I. 02:51:09,469 S10: John McGrath I. 02:51:12,229 S8: Alex. 02:51:13,030 S15: That was creepy. 02:51:15,469 S10: Alex. Adjourn a while. 02:51:16,500 S2: Ago. The only one on the zoom. 02:51:17,700 S10: It's got three little kids, so I can imagine what he's doing right now. Yeah. 02:51:21,299 S2: And before we make a motion to adjourn, Joe has one last thing to add. 02:51:24,770 S5: Tonight, I have one thing I want the public to be aware of, actually, the boards as well. And then the select board does need to sign some things before you guys leave. Um, I have here finally a completed FOIA styled budget document for the town of Hamilton. Um, it's it's final draft. I'm going to send it out electronically to the department heads. Just have them double check their sections. Correct. Any typos we can, and we'll be publishing this to the website and then creating some hard copies. Um, hopefully next week. Um, this was a long time coming. Yeah. Um, a lot of effort went into this, particularly from all of our department heads. Wendy, the folks at the comment center. But, you know, this is what a modern municipal budget is supposed to look like. So I hope that the folks in the town will take time once it's on the website and look through it and, you know, get a sense of what it is your town government is doing for you. 02:52:20,129 S2: And I just yeah, congratulations. I say good work to Joe and especially, uh, Wendy as well, who's really brought it to the finish line. I really appreciate it. Uh, motion. 02:52:31,370 S8: I move that we adjourn. 02:52:32,700 S21: Second. 02:52:33,430 S2: All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Thank you everyone. We're adjourned. 02:52:37,700 S10: Thanks, Harry. Good evening. 02:52:38,870 S17: Good night. 02:52:39,170 S2: Everyone. Before we.