00:05:52,467 S1: I know like go go go go go go go. 00:05:58,701 S2: Okay. It is, uh, 635 and I want to call to order the this meeting of the Hamilton Master Plan Committee. Uh, first and foremost, happy Valentine's to everybody. Sorry about the night that we, uh, um, we picked for the meeting, but, you know, it's here. We finally have the master plan in one fluid, 100 page document. So I thought it important, you know, that we get together one last time, maybe walk through, not page by page, because we've looked at every page and a lot of good feedback. And Sarah did a great job putting everything together, but maybe just hit the major headers. Um, if anyone had the opportunity to read through it. Comments, anything like that, we can take the opportunity to do that. Um, and then really discuss if we should take a vote on, you know, finalizing it, at least for this stage to be forwarded along to the planning board for. To be adopted. So with that, Sarah, if I can ask you to kind of show us what's behind door number one here. 00:06:59,501 S1: What are we going to do? Attendance, sir. 00:07:02,901 S2: Attendance. 00:07:03,968 S1: Attendance. 00:07:04,767 S2: Do, um. 00:07:06,167 S1: Roll call. 00:07:07,167 S2: Okay. Okay. Um, let's do a roll call. Start over to our left. 00:07:12,167 S1: Uh, Marty Crouch here. Rosie Kennedy here. 00:07:14,767 S3: Ted Ashworth. 00:07:15,767 S2: Bill Wilson here. Jack Lawrence. 00:07:20,367 S2: That's it. We have a quorum. Thank you for making sure I did that. 00:07:25,567 S1: Is this everybody? Are we missing? Um. Dana. 00:07:28,801 S2: Dana, you just missing Dana. 00:07:30,367 S1: Okay. 00:07:31,000 S2: Which is pretty. 00:07:31,567 S4: Good. Only missing one person. All right. So it's great to be back in Hamilton. It's been a few months. Um, so. Yeah, Bill pretty much summed it up. Um, we have this full draft of the plan. And at this point, um. Our job tonight is to sort of get this into a spot where you all feel comfortable taking a boat on it. So your final duty is the master plan. Steering committee is to, uh, formally vote to recommend, uh, this plan for adoption to the planning board. And then, you know, they obviously have their own, uh, full hearing on it. Um, so it would be great if we could, you know, with discussion, I'm sure. Um, I'd be very surprised if there were no comments. But hopefully, you know, by the end of this session, we'll go through, um, any corrections changes? Um, and hopefully you'll feel comfortable making a vote, you know, with, you know, conditions and, um, you know, with changes as discussed tonight. I know, Patrick, you already pointed out, um, an error with the zoning map that's been noted. Um, just. 00:08:38,167 S2: How was that? I'm sorry. 00:08:39,367 S4: So apparently there was some zoning change. Whatever source I used, I at this point, there was once a guy made this map, but some zoning change there was not reflected, but Patrick pointed it out. So? 00:08:55,167 S5: So maybe. Would you like me to make a comment? 00:08:59,100 S2: Sure. I don't like logistically. Do we want to go around the room and mention comments, or do we want to go through the headers and then have an opportunity for individual notes within each of the categories? Whatever. 00:09:10,667 S5: Well, we could do that. I would. 00:09:13,167 S2: Go ahead. Jack, why don't you. 00:09:14,801 S5: I just think this thing I can't see that this thing is even close to being ready for for, you know, daylight. Um, it's got a tremendous amount of of, uh, typos in it. It's got a lot of, uh, strange, you know, that. Just things that are wrong. Uh, just an example. Woodland. Woodland mead is woodland meadow, for example. Um, there are such things as 5.6 miles of interstate in Hamilton. Interstate is defined subsequently as being a road connecting different states, where the speed limits would typically be 55mph, up to 80 or 80 miles an hour, or something of that nature. There is nothing in Hamilton that I'm aware of in all the time that I've lived here that's even close to that. There's just a whole lot of stuff. And then, um, I, I basically because my, my printer would not print. I skipped to page 78, which was the recommendations, and ended up with just a whole lot of things that, uh, were either wrong or misstated or, uh, for example, the CPC said that, uh, is providing for the town hall rehab. $1 million, I believe. Patrick, correct me if I'm wrong. It's $4 million, is it not? That's correct. And there are things like that. It's just a whole lot of errors of fact all through here without taking you through all these. 00:10:55,868 S2: Yeah. So we do want to fact check everything and go through anything like, like the interstate or the mileage or, and it may be in areas because things because some things are all outdated already. Right. Like. Exactly right. Like probably the million became 4 million. And maybe we just talk about sources of funding, which or not to the the other big thing around Town Hall was, you know, it's going to be carbon neutral. You know, Patrick, you're probably. 00:11:19,100 S5: Some of the known of anything happening in this town, housing wise or commercially, is water. And I went to the meeting on the 30th, which was the, um, Bruce Towers wrap up of where we are right now. And one. One option is spelled out here, and that is to access the Beverly Salem Water Board. The Beverly Salem Water Board is probably the least attractive option. The main option, I would believe, subsequent, you know, pursuant to the engineers coming out with their final readout on March, by March 31st, and hopefully sooner than that will be, somehow we can hook into the MW IRA, right, and not have to go and spend 50 plus million dollars on a new plant for the Beverly Salem Water Board, and another billion plus for some reservoir up on route one that drowns one of the prettiest valleys around here. It just doesn't make any sense to me. So? So these are things that are critical to the commercial. It's really the scenic one own of doing anything in this town, as I say. So it's that it's that level without going through all my notes here. 00:12:37,701 S2: Right, right. know. And I think that's where we run a risk. A little bit of, like, we shouldn't give a solution. Like even in your water example, to say this is the best solution, we should say. No, no, no, we need to resolve. Right. Yeah. And we could call out options, you know. But but make sure that when implemented the water department, we put people who are responsible for each of the goals and tasks, you know, to to make the best decision when the time comes. But we also want to make sure this, you know, hey, my my understanding was, you know, this still had to go through some cosmetic stuff and some vocabulary stuff. I noticed too, where I think Winthrop was called Whitman. Uh, Whitman in there. So that was on page 71, I believe. 00:13:16,367 S5: Um, the down below is back to Winthrop again. 00:13:18,567 S2: Yep, yep. And so then there's a couple of things like that that we got to go through. But I also want to make sure, and I don't know how to resolve if it's best for, you know, Jack on your notes or if others have examples too, that we either we just kind of go through and make sure we correct anything that's not factual. Um. There were some miss things I saw too. Like a number of acres in town was one thing on one page and then another page. It was off. But I think some of that I read to believe in an asterisk that it didn't include, I don't know, roadways or something. So I kind of just skipped by that. But um, yeah. Any anybody else find? You know. 00:13:56,467 S5: There's one other thing that's really critical. And that is our representative and former member, Kristin. Its last name is not Castner, it is Castner k a n e r not a ksb n e r. So we've got that. That's a critical thing to get right right off the bat. 00:14:18,801 S1: Um, I have to, um, share Jack's concern. I found numerous typos, um, numerous inconsistencies in Capitalization, naming of entities, consistencies, and references to state law. Whether numbers are written out or spelled out, or the numerals themselves are used. There are references to chapter 61, but of course there's chapter 61 A and 61 B. Uh, you know, substantively, there are problems with respect to Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, which is which should be always identified as Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. And it's sometimes referred to as Gordon Conwell or Gordon Conwell Seminary, but the correct name should be used. But the master plan refers to the seminary leaving the site, and and now, uh, at least my present understanding is, uh, and I think that, uh, Ken Barnes can corroborate this is that the seminary is going to remain on the entire site, and it intends to sell just the apartments. So that has to be clarified. And then the whole discussion of the MBTA communities law is a little bit, um, too brief. And it also doesn't reflect the fact that the Select board has, um, authorized the expenditures of funds to have an initiative for a form based code that will address, at least in part, some of the section three A requirements, so that that's a bit of an issue as well. And then I just found that the, um, that the charts at the end, uh, have have problems. Um, the for example, the key refers to immediate short term and long term and ongoing. And we have references to medium term, near term and just all sorts of inconsistencies. And they may be addressed through a finding replace. But right now if this in this condition, if it were to go to the select to the planning board, um, I would be distressed because it would reflect badly on me as chair of the planning board, that I didn't insist that a lot of these the problems that I see here aren't corrected before it's circulated. 00:17:10,767 S4: And that is the aim of tonight. We will, um, fix all that. So I think so if Jack and Marnie and maybe some others have like long lists of individual corrections, maybe the most efficient way to do that would be to get those in writing. Unless there's some that you think are worth discussing. Um, further than we already have. But, um. 00:17:38,067 S1: One of the problems I saw was that there's an inconsistency in the number of housing units in Hamilton. Um, we found that I'll have to see where I can find that at the beginning 30. 00:17:51,467 S5: I think it's. 00:17:52,400 S1: Uh. Oh. Okay. On page 44, it's, uh, 202,783. 00:18:00,567 S1: And on page 69, it's 2804. It makes a difference because on page 69, it says that, um, Hamilton, um, would need to add 166 affordable units. Now, if Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary were to sell its apartments and there are 209 apartments now. Undoubtedly, there would be less a fewer number of apartments after they were rehabbed, but if those apartments were leased and 25% of those apartments were affordable, at 8,080% of Ami, we would satisfy our 10% requirement under the subsidized housing index, and we could take control of the 40 B situation in town. So that's something that I think needs to be considered here. Well, it's also speculative and it's future. It's not. It's not anything that has any substance right at the moment. Right. But but the one thing is true is that the seminary is is staying and they're selling the apartments. 00:19:16,701 S5: That's immediate. 00:19:17,667 S1: That's amazing. 00:19:18,300 S5: It's got to be. 00:19:19,400 S1: That has to be addressed. 00:19:20,567 S2: So but that's not negotiated yet, right. I mean, we're not at a point, right? I mean, we do. The last thing I think the planning board talked about. You didn't want to split it up, right? 00:19:30,167 S1: Well, the from what I understand right now, the the, um. 00:19:39,000 S1: Uh, Joe and, uh, John Whitten and probably Moe and Walters are addressing the sale of the apartment somehow, someway, coupled with the development agreement. 00:19:53,367 S2: Right. And which is critical piece. Right? So if that development agreement didn't come into play and we got some type of financial benefit, because if we add those 209 units, right, that's going to impact all of our services and be a cost to the town. Right? Oh yeah. And so I mean, none of that is done. And I think that's what Rosie's point is for all of this stuff, we're talking about the risk we run of saying what it is right now is it might be wrong next week. So how do we not instate the solution but talk about even MBTA? Here's the here's the recommendation or whatever you want to call it. We need these parties need to stay in tune with it and comply. Or these are the, you know, consequences. Um, water. You know, we have issues with water. We need to find a solution, you know, and maybe we name a few examples, but I think unless it's done in checked, I don't think we call it out. 00:20:43,000 S1: Well, no, I'm just also, I mean, because then you can never have a master plan because there's always something that's, um, in the future or something that's on the front burner. 00:20:55,100 S2: But to Marnie's point, too, we have to. It's a living document, so it has to be fluid in that it evolves and changes as decisions are made. But we need to make sure we are covering the topic so that those who are handed it to implement and address them and resolve, know that this is what the master steering committee through, you know, community meetings, you know, has determined is important. You know. 00:21:17,801 S5: The big problem is I've been told reliably they have a buyer and all they that they're just saying now. The only thing stopping them is the town is negotiating with the town, the terms under which the zoning will be made appropriate so that they can then transfer a title. So the worry is that it's absolutely critical that we use this opportunity to take care of our 40 D obligation. 00:21:42,968 S2: And so all that's going to. 00:21:44,667 S5: Be this is just a critical factor at this date. Because if we blow that in the negotiation, you know the town's a whole going to go a whole different direction. It's going to be really bad. It's just going to get worse and worse. So this is really it's a warning shot across the bow, as it were. Um, but but it's just. 00:22:02,701 S2: It's back on roads, the same thing right. 00:22:05,100 S5: Back our road, it says Tobacco Road was supposed to be completed in 2020. It's still not tired. 00:22:11,567 S2: It's got. Yeah, but I don't mean that. I mean the property. 00:22:13,801 S1: And at 133 Essex. 00:22:15,968 S2: Yeah. 00:22:16,400 S5: Yeah that's. 00:22:17,300 S2: That's another 40 V I mean all that. 00:22:19,167 S1: Even mentioned in here and it really doesn't need to be. 00:22:21,767 S2: No it doesn't, but we brought up the Gordon Conwell needing to be part of our TV. That's why we stay away from naming places that do that. Other than knowing that when the property is available for at Gordon Commonwealth, that you know that the town, you know, put the best interest in. I don't know what we. 00:22:38,601 S5: But the discussion in here was back when the Gordon Conwell was thinking of selling the whole place. Right now they're saying we're definitely staying. 00:22:46,667 S1: Yeah, that has to be fixed. They're staying. 00:22:49,400 S5: It's not. I mean, if we know things, there's no sense in putting something in there we know is already inaccurate. 00:22:55,667 S2: Right. So them staying might be inaccurate in a month. 00:23:00,601 S1: Well, I. 00:23:01,467 S2: Tell you, none of that. Everything's in flux, right? 00:23:04,567 S1: The future plans, of course. 00:23:06,000 S2: You said, you know, they have a buyer. I mean, they could be doing a. And I'm not speaking as a select person. I got to be careful because I know nothing. But, you know, they could be just passing off for cash flow to get buy something and then selling the rest of it. 00:23:17,400 S5: Well, I think they're desperate for cash flow. 00:23:19,067 S2: Absolutely. That's my. 00:23:20,300 S5: Mind. That's the nervous. 00:23:21,467 S1: No. 00:23:21,667 S2: If you're going to have a hard time a it's not zoned appropriately. And we need to be careful about what we do there, but be doing anything on that, especially with what happened behind on Bridge Street. 00:23:32,501 S5: What scares me. And I brought this up with Joe at the cop con here recently, and that is that I sent a letter to to Vicky who said, for example, in the library, if you put PV on the roof of the rec center, we've already got PV on the roof of the library. And she said, we're trying to electrify the buildings because it's probably the best way to go, public safety and all the rest of them. And she said, well, I can get you free PV, but it's going to cost for operation. The whole point is you should get the production from those panels. Apparently in the last contract that was done, all we got was A22 cents per kilowatt hour discount on, on on the electricity we buy from National Grid. Now if National Grid that's next summer went up 40%. That's not giving us any hedge off. It's giving us nothing. So these are things that we need to kind of look forward to. And I think have to be in here because of the town pays any attention to this thing. 00:24:38,501 S2: So they just got to know. Yeah. Right. That we want to be carbon neutral. Carbon neutral. I don't know that I read that in here by 2040. Maybe I missed it. I didn't have go line by line. But those things like that and we need to do what we can like and hedge like we energy class. So logistically how do we go through just to clean this up then? I know you were I mean. 00:24:57,901 S5: Um, I'm happy to type all my comments here. I'm happy to go through all of this stuff and send it along to you. And I'm happy to, you know, if you particularly in the, in the let's go, let's do stuff area, if you want to send me a draft of that, I'm happy to go through all that stuff because I'm pretty well up to date. I think at this point on where things are. Yes. If I'm not, I know who who is. 00:25:24,100 S3: I'm hearing. You know, there's a lot of fact checking and grammatical cleanup to do that seems reasonably straightforward. And we already have some written notes guiding some of that. I'm hearing, you know, the strategic plan is meant to be more generalized plan looking ahead over the next ten years without so much current specificity that it could be outdated to next week. 00:25:43,767 S6: Right, exactly. 00:25:44,701 S3: But I also we know there are, you know, a good number of very active projects or issues happening right now. Right, right. That ought to be somehow or another reference in there. We can't be can't ignore them, and we don't know how half of them are going to turn out either. But, you know, I'm not seeing it here either as its own section or or located in relevant sections. You know, a lot of relevant discussion about these on these active projects that could have a major impact in the in the future ten years of the town. 00:26:22,767 S5: Well, there are two facts in the in the 40 B area, two that are omitted. One is is on Asbury Street. What is 145 units that no. 00:26:32,167 S1: 45 units on Asbury? 00:26:33,868 S5: 45 units and that 19 across the street. 00:26:37,000 S1: So I. 00:26:37,801 S5: Think that's not in here, that. 00:26:39,567 S1: There are ten, ten across the street. Ten across the street. 00:26:44,000 S5: Ten I think it's more than ten. Ten I stand correct. 00:26:49,567 S3: Well, who knows, next week it might be a different number, right? That's our point is we're not we're not trying to put a pin on pin on it. Just. But it is a very relevant project. 00:26:59,100 S6: I think. 00:26:59,767 S3: It should be mentioned in. 00:27:01,000 S6: Here. 00:27:01,400 S1: I think we have to address the current situation and, and say it's conceivable that this can happen, although it may not. I mean, but we should recognize that possibilities or possibilities. So, you know, certainly if, you know, I think I personally think that it. It would be so advantageous for the town to have, um, some 200 units on the shy from, uh, Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. That referencing it in the master plan would assist Joe and whoever is the next chair of the Select board in negotiating with the seminary. And I think that the seminary, um, has been engaged with the town for years. It has been, um, masterful in its ability not to make commitments. And so I'm, I'm trying to be circumspect that that a little, you know, a little, uh, statement in a master plan might just be the ticket. 00:28:14,901 S2: Yeah, but I think danger. I agree. We should say. 00:28:18,300 S6: Just. 00:28:18,667 S1: Say it's. 00:28:19,467 S2: If it weren't to have every neighbor around Bridge Street when that comes and said you as a town put it in your master plan. 00:28:25,300 S6: So no, I'm saying. 00:28:26,567 S1: Just the potential. 00:28:27,868 S6: Right. 00:28:28,100 S1: Just recognize the potential. 00:28:29,767 S2: And wording matters though. And I think what we would say is something like when large properties become available, like, you know, currently, Gordon Conwell say, the whole theological seminary, you know, they should explore all opportunities to, you know, capitalize on that. You know, like that because you could call out Tobacco Road Tobacco as well right now. Why wouldn't we call that out? 00:28:53,467 S1: Well, actually that that I think that's slightly different. 00:28:58,267 S2: Why wouldn't we call out Winthrop? I mean, I think it's. 00:29:02,267 S6: A school site that isn't. 00:29:03,667 S2: Oh, not. 00:29:04,567 S6: Is it. 00:29:04,868 S5: Whitman? But it's. 00:29:05,567 S2: Yeah, I know, but I mean, is it is it in. But I'm saying like. Yeah. So that's where the consistency is and where it is like like but where you address, you know, we want to comply with state regs like, you know, 40 B's or like the MBTA. Every opportunity should be explored, you know, such as and then call those out. That's all. 00:29:23,501 S6: There is. 00:29:24,567 S5: I mean. 00:29:25,167 S6: There is. 00:29:26,167 S5: Sorry. With the property discussion in here. That is in. 00:29:29,167 S2: Here, there is that's under because it says the school is looking to. But I don't know that it ties in with it. Could 40 be I mean that might. 00:29:36,968 S3: Be section five is key issues. And yes, it does touch on uh, strategic issues like water availability and commercial growth, but it also mentions specifically some of these projects. Um, but I think it could go further and cover more of them. Really. It's only, you know, specifically any of these major ongoing projects. It's really only calling out, you know, the maintenance of this building, the, um, the planning for the, uh, the three. And, you know, I didn't even call it planning for the the Winthrop School site. It's really the three. Um, it's really the Cutler School is with driving it because that building is is end of life. Um, Gordon Conwell gets, uh, you know, eight lines. Um, there's nothing about a number of these other projects in here. 00:30:32,767 S2: Right? And it should. That's good. It's in key issues, but should it end up in, you know, goals and implementation at the end, you know. 00:30:39,567 S3: Or a new section of like, current major projects? 00:30:44,167 S6: Well, to. 00:30:44,701 S2: Me they should line up with the key issues, right. So we have key issues and we have ongoing projects that are addressing our key issues. We should continue to explore these and others as they become available. 00:30:55,000 S6: So I. 00:30:55,367 S4: Feel. 00:30:55,501 S6: Like there's. 00:30:56,000 S1: A section under, uh, Key Issues for Affordable Housing, and that's where we can reference some of those projects. 00:31:02,267 S4: Yeah, I feel like the key issues is probably the section to address some of this. 00:31:07,667 S6: Okay. 00:31:09,267 S4: So. 00:31:13,167 S1: The other thing that I noticed is that some of the footnotes, I tried to follow them and get more information, uh, with respect to them. And I was not able to do that in all instances. 00:31:25,767 S4: Double check the footnotes. 00:31:26,868 S2: Got it. And, Marnie, I mean, it's coming to your group next. So I would absolutely take your guidance on how you know the best form and this to come into, into something that you're going to like lead, you know, for the adoption with the next planning. 00:31:41,868 S1: I think Patrick knows me well enough. And in the way I go through minutes that Sarah, I apologize. You're not going to like me after you're done with my comments. 00:31:52,267 S4: Oh, that's all right. I can take it. 00:31:54,801 S5: You know, the other thing is there there were maps were not labeled, and there was, uh, on page four, they talked about the town owning 800 acres, as shown on map 4.1.1 and I never could identify 4.1.1 800 acres is a hell of a lot of acreage. I think, referring to vacant land that was up for grabs kind of thing. I'd love to see that. 00:32:23,267 S3: If you if you look at the recent Cutler School Building Committee report, it lists it lists something like two dozen potential alternate sites, most of which are are public land. Really? Yeah. Which I didn't realize is that. 00:32:38,667 S5: Is that on the town website? 00:32:40,400 S6: Uh, it's. 00:32:41,267 S2: On. 00:32:41,367 S6: The school. 00:32:42,167 S2: It's on the, uh, the school website or a link to. 00:32:45,000 S6: The the Hamilton. 00:32:47,267 S3: There's like one page Hamilton's alternative sites. And one page was when I'm alternative sites, but there are a lot. Now, now, a few of those were developable. They're mostly wetland or buildable. But it was still surprising to me how many sites there are around the town. The two towns that are owned by the town. 00:33:05,300 S6: The schools as. 00:33:07,000 S3: Well. And the middle schools are. Their leases are running out in 2025. Yeah. I guess the town still don't. I don't know who. 00:33:13,901 S5: Well, no, actually the regional. 00:33:16,000 S2: No one pays. 00:33:16,567 S6: Middle. 00:33:16,868 S5: School, high school site. But all the rest of the leases are running. 00:33:20,701 S2: Yeah. And that was done intentionally to come, you know, at this time. Now that'll be like a 15 year lease or something like that. 00:33:28,801 S5: But that's a lot of acreage and we don't want to keep building in swamps. I don't think. 00:33:34,868 S3: It's more expensive. 00:33:38,000 S5: I know the guy who did the digging. He said it was black muck. So differential settlement is not so good. 00:33:47,901 S2: I had a lot of notes too, but I'm just trying to think of logistics logistically, how to move forward. 00:33:53,000 S3: Yeah, I'm hearing we're not we're all agreeing this isn't really ready to move forward next. 00:33:57,267 S2: Definitely not. So now it's like what are the next steps? Is it a you know, like like a small group that gets together or do we all go in and send notes or I think when we do that, then we get back and I don't know. 00:34:10,467 S6: We're further down. 00:34:11,567 S1: Maybe good at, um, synthesizing if we went by section by section, um, or chapters and added notes there. You've always been pretty good about synthesizing all of the input, if that's something that would be agreeable. 00:34:31,167 S2: Is this where you saw that? 00:34:32,100 S4: Yeah. Let's see. 00:34:33,000 S2: Jack, this is what you're talking about, data. 00:34:35,968 S6: Yeah. Okay. 00:34:36,868 S5: It's actually repeated between 800 and 3800. Quite a number of spots. So this would be very enriching at Texas 29. 00:34:46,100 S6: All right. I'll double check that. At least a good. 00:34:48,267 S5: Description of the clay and. 00:34:50,100 S3: I could I got it in an email. I can forward it to you. 00:34:53,267 S4: All right. So all right let's see. So what form Deere notes exist in? Like I know, I see Jack's got a notebook there. Um. Like Bill, Marnie. Anyone else who took notes? Did you guys just, like, scribble in the margins? Like, what are we looking at here? 00:35:06,400 S6: I scribbled it. 00:35:07,267 S2: I scribbled in the margins. 00:35:08,400 S6: Scribbled? Um. 00:35:10,701 S4: Let's see what's the easiest way to do this? 00:35:12,701 S6: Oh, I. 00:35:13,467 S1: Have another question. We have an introduction, which is probably one chapter that the public will read. But who's going to draft that? 00:35:21,400 S5: Are you going to write that? 00:35:23,567 S6: Yeah. 00:35:23,767 S2: What did we do? You want to take a draft and then together we could take another look at it. Or do you want me to take a shot at it? That doesn't matter. 00:35:31,601 S7: Go ahead. I'm out for a couple of weeks. 00:35:33,567 S2: All right, let's do that. And then when you're back, we'll. And now someone else has a because we have some examples from other introductions inside. So I think I'll take a stab at it. 00:35:43,167 S4: And Phil, if you want us to take a look at it like me and Judy, um, we're happy to. 00:35:47,868 S2: Okay. 00:35:48,267 S4: But yeah. 00:35:49,100 S2: And so and maybe what you did last time I thought was effective, we kind of had a sheet and we referenced page number, maybe paragraph, and people gave you, you know, the comments. Is that a way to facilitate. 00:35:59,467 S4: The common resolution matrix? I mean, if you all are willing to go through and put your comments in that form, that would make it easier. Um, yeah, that would actually be great. I mean, considering, um, I, I was not going to force you to do that because you've already taken your notes without, you know, having that plan from the beginning. So I was going to give you some leeway on that, you know, for the other notes. I insisted on it. But if you're willing to do that, that would be helpful, because then again, you can go and see exactly like what? How they were addressed. Um. 00:36:31,367 S1: Well, some of the, some of the issues that I have, you know, really aren't amenable to that. I mean, there really I think you need to go into this document in word and identify when you're going to capitalize town and when you're not, when you're going to refer to downtown Hamilton, capital D, or when it's going to be, um, not capitalized when you're going to refer to the town of Manchester as Manchester by the sea, which is its official name, not Manchester. Um, multi-family should be hyphenated. Um, you know, they're just those types of, uh, consistencies can be easily addressed through the word functions. But I had some just stylistic stuff, just word choices. Then I found some paragraphs for just a little redundant and awkward. There was some redundancy in some of the documents, and I found, you know, just typos, you know, sentences without periods and that type of thing. And I think Jack found even more critical things with respect to the maps than, than I did. So I don't know that I for me, if I had to insert my comments into a form, it wouldn't. You know, I don't know how efficient that would be. 00:37:50,868 S3: I think there's a basic level here that you guys should be able to do without us having to highlight a grammatical inconsistency or spelling. 00:37:59,701 S4: Yeah, that's not if I can go through that. 00:38:02,167 S5: I can go through with it with a with a red pen. If I can get a hard copy that I don't have to print because my, my printer, as I say, is proven utterly inadequate to the to the thing. I get that. 00:38:13,567 S6: And there you go. 00:38:14,467 S5: With the introduction. Which of the appendices have you got? The appendices? 00:38:18,868 S4: Oh yeah. That's all stuff you've seen anyway. But yes, I can forward those along. 00:38:23,100 S5: So I got a complete. So it all ties together because I'm going to read it. That's what I'm. 00:38:27,501 S6: Going. 00:38:27,701 S2: And even if you highlighted some of those capital D I mean, to your point to some of that is just a sit down, roll up your sleeves and. 00:38:34,367 S6: Deal with it. Right. Yeah. That's yeah. 00:38:39,267 S1: No, I don't. 00:38:39,767 S6: Have the. 00:38:40,167 S2: But it's like the inconsistencies too or where it's like, you know where the numbers might be different based on the source. I know we listed sources and such, but you know that those are some of the things I was highlighting. 00:38:53,067 S6: Um, so. 00:38:54,901 S1: One. 00:38:55,367 S8: Of the things that I can think of is so, uh, when you talk about, uh, residents, um, single family residents, there's yet a, um, I don't know. That's I don't know, it's not acres. It's acres. I'm sorry. Land use. Nope. I'm. I'm sorry. 00:39:15,767 S5: Let me ask another question. 40 s is 40 s still extant out there? 00:39:23,667 S4: Um. 00:39:25,167 S5: No. Which is? There's still money at seven units per acre available for school expansion and stuff. 00:39:32,167 S4: So the deal with 40 S is it does still exist, but, um, the criteria is so tough that it's hardly ever been used. Like, it's something you can't really ever rely on. 00:39:44,701 S6: Um, I. 00:39:45,701 S7: You know, in talking to my fellow planners in the Commonwealth. No one knows of one that's been awarded yet. 00:39:55,767 S4: I feel I feel like there maybe was one a long time ago, but like, it basically never happens. So usually when people ask about it, we say, um, try to forget about it because, um, there's enough like wiggle room in how they do their calculations. It always ends up they don't know anything. So that's just how it is. I don't know all the details of why that is, but that is sort of the reality of chapter 40 as well. 00:40:19,367 S5: All of our school buildings are obsolete, and we're going to put a tremendous amount of money into them, or something's going to happen if they don't get new. And when you've got 750 units, 730 units, whatever it turns out to be MBTA same thing going into into Wenham. That's 1500 units. I don't know how many children are going to come out of that. And then you go, well, if the Gordon Conwell Caldwell Apartments get repopulated with affordable families. We could have a tremendous school population out of this whole thing. So we really need to be looking at relevance of this going forward, which is, you know, big stuff. Um, it's kind of where I am. I mean, meta is, what, 17 units per acre and. 00:41:10,968 S6: 15. 00:41:11,567 S5: And, uh, we don't want it spread all over the area because that's going to totally destroy the quality of life in this town. 00:41:19,601 S4: Yep. 00:41:20,267 S2: But do you all do you want it all in one spot? 00:41:22,767 S5: Well, that'd be great, but I don't. Story buildings. 00:41:25,868 S6: That wouldn't. 00:41:26,367 S2: Be great. Here's my point. You know. 00:41:27,801 S6: I. 00:41:28,000 S5: Wouldn't. 00:41:28,267 S6: Be afraid. 00:41:28,868 S5: But but there's a you know, there's a it's that's it's going to take a lot of planning and nudging and. 00:41:35,067 S6: Regulation. 00:41:36,000 S5: To get something that doesn't destroy the. 00:41:38,000 S6: Town. 00:41:38,267 S2: So right now, I mean, we have to define an overlay district, right. So by, you know, so well, you know, we should say, you know, it's important to comply or whatever the wording is. And then look at all opportunities to manage you know how and clients with it. Right. And I think that's part of like the adopting. New planning tools and such to look at areas like the Winthrop School. Right. The form based stuff I meant to say. 00:42:03,200 S6: Right. 00:42:03,467 S5: I mean, I take I take Rosie's point, but we have to assume it's going to happen because the state is desperate and. 00:42:10,100 S6: Well. 00:42:10,300 S2: We assumed Phoebe was going to happen to in the percent. And how many years later? Now, I know there's a stick on this one, but there's a lot of communities that are saying, okay, I'll just give the district. But there could be a wave of voices that. 00:42:22,167 S6: Well, we'll know, we'll. 00:42:23,667 S1: Know in the next week because Milton is voting tonight. And so the referendum in Milton is whether or not the districts that were approved at a representative town meeting are going to stand. And then we'll see whether Andrea Kemp sues, um, the the town of Milton. 00:42:40,601 S6: Yeah. 00:42:41,000 S1: Which could happen. She's threatening to see. 00:42:42,901 S7: Them going to go where there's infrastructure and where there's access. Right? And we have pretty much no infrastructure. Right. And limited access. Right. 00:42:54,868 S2: I don't know how the MBTA trains are going to handle it. 00:42:57,300 S7: Let alone we have the train. And that's great. But it takes a lot more than a train to know. 00:43:04,000 S2: Yeah. I'm saying I don't think the trains can handle that many people. 00:43:07,567 S7: But yeah. And the likelihood of developers picking communities that are really difficult in terms of the, the access part, the infrastructure lack, they're going to go where it's easier to develop. And that's not us that's today. 00:43:26,901 S5: But in ten years, if the water situation straightens out and everything, we have to be ready. 00:43:31,567 S7: That's exactly. 00:43:33,267 S6: What happened. 00:43:33,868 S2: And with that density, they're going to get a lot more money for it. 00:43:36,467 S7: So if we get connected to the MW array then you you bet your bottom dollar it's happening. 00:43:43,567 S5: They're going to love it. 00:43:46,000 S2: And so we mentioned, you know comply but maintain the scenic or the culture of that resides in Hamilton today. 00:43:55,100 S8: Well you know that's not going to happen if all of these contingencies happen. 00:44:00,467 S5: It's going to maintain control of our of our little town here. 00:44:04,000 S8: We will. 00:44:05,000 S5: We need to. 00:44:05,567 S6: We. 00:44:05,667 S5: Need to plan. 00:44:06,267 S6: Ahead. 00:44:06,601 S5: We need to be ready. 00:44:07,868 S2: It's 270 plus towns having the same discussion right now. 00:44:11,200 S6: Right. That's exactly. 00:44:12,801 S1: Right. 00:44:13,167 S6: So a lot of. 00:44:13,868 S8: Them are pushing back. 00:44:15,167 S2: Really hard is big time. 00:44:17,801 S8: Yeah. And you know, it's it's one thing to say theoretically we have to do this and this and this, but yet we are a small town and people love a small town. And we need to think about the trade offs if we just comply with these idealistic and theoretical mandates. Quote unquote, from from the state. We need to think about the the realistic possibility of that happen and that happening in. Patrick. You bring up some some very good points. Um, I mean, and I don't um, this is totally off subject, I realize, but but what is the reality of our little town hooking into m w a I mean, I don't know. 00:45:08,100 S5: Well, they're they're in Redding. They're in Marblehead. They bracket Salem on both sides. They they have waived entry fees for new customers for five years because they're desperate to bring people in, bring new towns in to make up the cost of the new aqueduct they just built. The question is, is that aqueduct sufficient to do us and the other towns downstream, or would they have to build another new aqueduct if they have to build another new aqueduct? It's not going to happen. 00:45:40,000 S8: And what does it. 00:45:40,767 S6: Cost. 00:45:41,767 S8: For that? 00:45:43,567 S4: Yeah. So I think the way the plan can address that is to have as part of the, you know, discussion of wastewater, you know, as a recommendation, you know, that is one of the potential options, you know, continue to assess the feasibility of that. You know, just make a note in here. M to is a potential solution. And the town should continue to, um, you know, actively, you know, engage with that agency. So that's how I'd address it in here. Um. All right. 00:46:16,767 S2: Should we make a list of current projects? Like, we just brainstormed and talked about a lot that we can, you know, make sure, you know, we have on one piece of paper, you know, that Sarah and all of us can look at and see how we work those in, you know, and referenced, if anything, into this document. So it doesn't look like it's a generic document, but it actually talks about key issues. It talks about, you know, what the community has said. You know, they want to maintain, protect, etc.. You know, and these are in how do we insert some of these? So they go, oh yeah, yeah, they know this is going on. It's not the final answer, but do things like this to continue, you know, to. 00:46:55,601 S8: Make them current, you know, sort of issues. 00:46:58,100 S2: And just then we can kind of like go through the doc and find out where it's reference and it's in there. So as people read this throughout the community and about the in the town, they say, okay, yeah, yeah, they got the key issues, right. They see that we're working on some things they wanted to continue, you know, to comply and work on things but maintain, you know, the, the, the culture of Hamilton. Is that worthwhile or do you think that's already been communicated? You know, I think I could write it on a sheet, but I would want to make sure everybody's got. 00:47:25,601 S5: There's one other issue. Judy Barry put her finger on it back in 2004, 2006. And it's only mentioned kind of in passing here. And that is need for, I think, a full time planner, not somebody who's been bogged down by Michael Lombardo and 50 million other minute minutia, which, you know, has made it absolutely impossible. I mean, this is a this is a huge point right now when there's so many things that are cranking. Uh. 00:47:56,968 S2: Did we. 00:47:57,267 S9: Reference something like that in the. 00:47:59,667 S5: Am I right or. 00:48:00,267 S6: Not? 00:48:02,567 S5: I mean, you were buried. 00:48:03,968 S6: Yeah. 00:48:05,267 S5: Buried. 00:48:06,767 S6: Mhm. I mentioned something like that. 00:48:10,501 S5: I don't need to pick on you because I know you, Michael put you on a hell of a spot. 00:48:15,267 S4: All right. So that recommendation would be like at a full time planner position basically. 00:48:19,901 S5: Yeah. Well Judy said screw it back into that then you've got it in here. 00:48:24,767 S2: And we talk about hiring a full time conservation agent. Uh, for I didn't know if we had said something on the planning side. 00:48:31,567 S4: I don't think we do, but that's good. Yeah. Planners do like to say hire. More planners. That is true. But yeah. No, I think I think that's a good one. 00:48:41,267 S5: If somebody does. If we don't have someone who can run numbers on this stuff, we're never going to know where the hell we are. 00:48:47,901 S2: All right. So. 00:48:53,868 S2: I'm just trying to think of the best next steps where we're in a timeline to come back around and and get this a, you know, uh, into a former because I fear a little bit that will send it off in pieces. Come back in and I don't know. Did you review this as already. Do we know or did I know she had sent us a no. Patrick said she was not feeling well, but I think she has by now. No. 00:49:16,000 S4: Or she has looked at it, however, um, clearly, um, just as a firm and, you know, personally, I did not give it the level of careful review that I probably should have. So I apologize for that. That will be rectified in the very near future. I'm putting this on the top of my list to fix all this. I'll be going through it with a fine tooth comb, looking for, um, you know, just rereading it generally, but also the specific things that were mentioned. You know, the capitalization, the, um, consistent referring to entities, um, making sure the numbers match. And if they don't, then there's a good reason, making sure that's clear. Um, I've got a lot of notes. 00:49:57,367 S1: Um, I had this is a little out of sequence here, but, uh, in the economic development section. So we have these categories of jobs. And I thought to myself, who who works in these categories? I mean, we know doctors and lawyers and accountants and nurses and administrative assistants. I mean, so when you talk about some of these jobs, couldn't you put in parentheses edgy and gives some examples. So professional scientific and management and administrative and waste management services. What jobs are they. I mean really so professional or are they doctors and lawyers and accountants and, you know, scientific. Are they engineers? I mean, what these these categories don't resonate. They're they're just they're planners speak. They're not people speak. I mean, we're trying to write to the citizens of Hamilton. And so these categories, it seemed to me they didn't elucidate much of anything in my mind. Um, so that was one thing. Oh, and the other thing, there were reasons why the school population was decreasing. And in conjunction with that, it's been noted that the population of Hamilton is decreasing. And so maybe one of the things that needs to be addressed and it might connect the dots is that the the occupancy of the apartments at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary is substantially reduced. And those apartments were not just for individual students, they were for families with children. So the decline in the population of Hamilton and the decline in the, in the number of kids in the schools might be attributable to the decline in the residency at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. And also maybe, you know, professors moving out of town because their jobs are gone or, you know, they just don't, you know, they're retired or whatever. And so that or their children have grown. But, I mean, the, the, the whole model of the seminary has changed. I mean, it used to be where the students attended classes on campus. And now that the need for that has been substantially diminished and I'm not making this up, and Patrick can corroborate what I'm saying, because Ken Barnes has said it to the planning board on numerous occasions. Their model is now, you know, teaching online. So there will still be students there. A much smaller number. And they want to have some space available for students that come for special courses from overseas or whatever, but they will not have the same level of student population as they do now. And so those the apartments are things I think have a lot of vacancy. And so that. 00:53:13,100 S5: Might be. 00:53:13,567 S6: 50%. 00:53:14,467 S5: Full. 00:53:14,868 S1: Yeah. So that might be why there's, there are less students in the schools. 00:53:19,267 S5: There aren't a lot of houses around here that are boarded up. 00:53:22,267 S1: No, no. But they would be. It could be from Gordon Conwell. 00:53:26,767 S8: There was only a decrease in like 200. 00:53:30,400 S2: Yeah, but that would imply yeah, there were probably, what, 65 kids at its peak. That went to the school? 00:53:35,567 S6: Yeah. 00:53:36,601 S2: We didn't get any money for that too. So one would think to our average. 00:53:39,868 S6: Yeah. 00:53:40,167 S8: So yeah. 00:53:41,901 S2: But that could be you're right. I mean. 00:53:43,767 S6: It's. 00:53:44,000 S2: Possible some of that. We also have a lot of open space in this town. You know, as a percent of total, you know, that's probably a leading an indicator. Have we purchased more properties and made it open space than initially, you know, over a period of time to and if it shut out development growth of housing in that manner as well? There were a number of things we've done as a community and where, you know, we are where we are. And but every time a property comes up, you know, our first reaction is to protect it. 00:54:12,367 S5: Take a look at it and look at the marginal revenue, and then try to figure out what the marginal cost is going to be. And an awful lot of times the marginal cost is going to exceed the marginal revenue of whatever development comes in, just in new pipes and sidewalks and God knows what else. 00:54:26,868 S6: Right. 00:54:28,367 S5: The other question that as I ran into this thing, I was trying to find out. Pleasant Avenue, I didn't realize Pleasant Avenue. There was a thing about striping the lines where as we street and Highland Street come together with Pleasant Avenue. And there's also a pleasant street, which I think is right over by Rosie. And it turns out Pleasant Avenue is the driveway of Asbury Grove. 00:54:58,467 S6: Oh, okay. So is the Grove even. 00:55:00,467 S2: Mentioned in this? So I don't know that I saw the Grove. 00:55:03,467 S6: Mentioned that's mentioned the Grove. It should. 00:55:05,367 S5: Be mentioned. 00:55:06,367 S2: See it in. 00:55:07,000 S5: But that's whatever it is. 00:55:08,067 S6: I finally found Crawford. 00:55:09,567 S5: Avenue and they want to put a zebra. And there's all kinds of, you know, changes of radius and zebras and stuff going in on the road. Do we really have to do that for for Asbury Grove? I mean, it's a private it's a private, uh, community. 00:55:25,100 S1: Well, I had a question. Rosie said. It is in Hamilton, but I thought Pingree Park was in Wenham. 00:55:31,267 S8: It's both. There's there's a portion of it is in Hamilton. 00:55:34,701 S1: But the boundary. I looked at the boundary and if it would just be a fragment. Right. 00:55:40,467 S6: But what. 00:55:40,801 S5: Is. 00:55:41,000 S6: Not in Hamilton? 00:55:41,701 S2: Where is it? In Hamilton. Like in the front right corner? Maybe. 00:55:44,801 S8: Or probably. Yeah. 00:55:46,467 S6: Yeah. 00:55:46,801 S1: Well, I mean, I checked that because it says I mean, I googled it, Pingree Park, it says Wenham. 00:55:53,767 S6: It's Wenham. Well, no. 00:55:55,901 S8: There is a portion that's in Hamilton. Granted, it's a very small portion and I don't know exactly how much of it, and I don't even know why. I don't know how I know it, but I do. 00:56:09,901 S5: You got to believe the whole thing's in Wenham. But I'll tell you what's not in Hamilton. And that's the Audubon sanctuary, as far as I know, that's Topsfield. 00:56:19,601 S3: I see a corner of Pingree Park in Hamilton. Yeah, I thought 47. 00:56:25,267 S4: Well. 00:56:27,267 S6: 48. 00:56:28,267 S8: We do have a portion of it in Hamilton. 00:56:30,767 S4: I'll double check how it's discussed. If it's like Pingree Park is in Hamilton. That's misleading, but I'll take a look at that. 00:56:37,467 S6: I mean, it might. 00:56:39,000 S2: Be the least of our. 00:56:39,801 S6: Worries. No. That's fair. No, but I'm 47. 00:56:43,901 S3: 48. 00:56:44,467 S1: I was always under the impression it was in one. And then there's Fairfield Park, which I'd never heard of. But it's Fairhaven Field, and I still hadn't heard of that. But that's in Hamilton. 00:56:56,000 S5: Fair Haven field? 00:56:57,467 S6: Yeah. 00:56:57,868 S5: Is that the one of the library with. 00:56:59,467 S6: The rec. 00:56:59,868 S1: At the rec center, I think. 00:57:01,267 S6: Yeah. Is it? 00:57:02,100 S1: Yeah. 00:57:02,767 S8: Yeah, I think it's. 00:57:03,501 S1: That Fairhaven field. 00:57:06,067 S6: Huh? 00:57:07,400 S1: Yeah, I had to Google that. 00:57:09,100 S6: Oh, because. 00:57:09,701 S5: The Fairhaven. 00:57:10,801 S6: School. 00:57:11,501 S5: This Fairhaven, um, uh, nursery used to be there right in the old, in the old, uh, high school, The old Lamson School at Fairhaven as a child care took out over, and then they moved over to the the other side of town. 00:57:27,767 S2: Huh? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't doubt that I remember I know what you're talking about. 00:57:31,567 S6: Go to the. 00:57:32,267 S2: No, I mean, I could have probably, but no. 00:57:36,367 S6: Um, can. 00:57:37,267 S1: I talk about the implementation program a minute? Sure. So, number one, we have a huge list of leadership parties, key to priority rankings and key to elemental abbreviations. So I would prefer seeing all of those abbreviations eliminated and just write out what needs to be written out in the implementation program. If it fits. If it doesn't fit, I would put the list of leadership bodies in the other the other categories in alphabetical order so you can find them more readily. And then the other thing with respect to the implementation program, I would get sorted out in the, you know, whether, you know, you're using immediate, short and long term, I would color code them. So it was really clear what is immediate, what is short term, what is long term and what is ongoing. So you know obviously red would be immediate. Mhm. And in that way you know when the Select board, the Planning Board and the other boards are reviewing this, they'll know the priority right out, out of the box because it's color coded. 00:58:53,367 S4: All right. 00:59:01,501 S2: Okay. 00:59:03,400 S6: All right. 00:59:07,567 S4: So I'm just waiting for more comments. Or we can start talking about how we want to transmit them and writing, I don't know. 00:59:18,267 S8: I think I think using one of your matrix pages was, was really helpful. And then we could we would see each other's like we did last time. Right. So that if we're concerned about something, somebody else has already addressed it. We don't need to belabor the point. 00:59:37,367 S4: Yeah, we can certainly do it that way. Um, that would also make it easier for us as well. Um, as to what you were saying, Mani, about a lot of your comments. Maybe not fitting into that. Um, hopefully a lot of that will come out in just, um, a general careful review of everything I've also taken. Like I said, I've taken notes of the types of issues you pointed out to pay special attention to. Like if there's any like more like types of issues you that we haven't discussed, that you wanted to point out in the, um, in the written document. Um, you could do that. Otherwise, just focus on more like, um, specific instances of factual or grammatical corrections, rather than things that repeat a ton. 01:00:20,901 S1: Well, sometimes, um, you know, you had abbreviations and I was like, what? 01:00:26,400 S2: Okay, so maybe a good move is, you know, from tonight, everyone kind of said kind of the themes that you, you would like in that view that Sarah and team are going to do like typos, inconsistencies, you know, capitalization, you know, things like that. And then in parallel, maybe you resend out that grid, you know, and we can for those who want to, you know, throw, you know, page this that, you know, so you can go specific. It may just be a validation for you because you've already found it when you went through it. Or maybe some oh, okay. I'll make sure I hit that. I do think it could be valuable for Marnie and or Jack and you to kind of either get together and plow through it with it open. I think that would be more efficient. But absent the ability to do that, you know, I'd, you know, I'd recommend, you know, sending stuff back and forth, whether it's bullets in an email of topics and themes to look for, and then maybe a grid that kind of on page 64, this, you know what I mean. 01:01:24,267 S8: By the chapters. 01:01:25,467 S6: Yeah. 01:01:26,100 S8: Might be keep it convenient. 01:01:27,868 S1: Oh, I had another. 01:01:29,067 S2: I just I just don't want a lot of time to go by without, like, getting, letting us get specific and finding things, you know, because they will be, you know, they it's important, you know. And I know Patrick maybe the town or somebody you know yourself. I know you're going to be out a little bit, but, you know, maybe that type of view is valuable to knowing all the different projects that are going on. Hey, we should reference that. Hey, um, you know, it isn't here. Check. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just not. I'm just throwing out ideas. I think what I'll do is I'll send you some bullets for tomorrow on just themes as you do your review. And then, you know, if you can provide a sheet, You know, for those who want to, we can kind of throw in more specifics. 01:02:14,467 S4: All right. So obviously a lot of the, um, just proofreading review I can start on right away. So in terms of, um, time frame for returning written comments and then when time frame for producing a new draft, let's see. 01:02:30,467 S2: So do people all agree we should return written comments or. 01:02:35,100 S6: Yeah, yeah, I think. 01:02:36,300 S8: I think it would be helpful. 01:02:37,267 S5: I think the first stage. Marty why don't I. I've got the complete copy here. Why don't I go through this with a with a red pen and then pass it over to you or vice versa. And then we'll we won't duplicate the effort. 01:02:51,167 S1: Yeah, that's a good idea. 01:02:52,467 S5: You want to do that? 01:02:53,300 S1: Yeah. 01:02:53,868 S6: If you go through it with a. 01:02:55,567 S3: Red hot potato. 01:02:57,467 S2: I like. 01:02:57,968 S6: That. And then. 01:03:00,300 S4: All right. 01:03:00,968 S3: I also find it very efficient to go through a printed doc with a pen and. 01:03:04,767 S6: Just. That's what I like. Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. 01:03:07,267 S1: No, if you do that Because I think you picked up things that I didn't. And so then, you know, you can do it in red. I could do it in green. And, you know, then she would she would have our, um. 01:03:19,167 S5: Did you get Woodland Meadow? 01:03:20,501 S1: I did, and I got the Essex County Trails Association when it's singular trail. 01:03:27,000 S6: Oh, okay. 01:03:28,801 S5: There we go. 01:03:29,367 S6: Okay, good. 01:03:30,501 S1: But I think you, you picked up a lot of things with the knobs. Okay. But one column I it's table 4.2.7 Hamilton complete streets. So there's the project name the project description and then well what's its status. So I thought we needed a third column. Is it done. Not done. Half done to be done. 01:03:57,267 S8: All right. 01:04:04,601 S10: All right. 01:04:07,767 S1: And then, you know, the check, the footnotes, because some of them I just, um. 01:04:15,267 S1: I just couldn't. 01:04:16,467 S4: Yeah. I will be going through and checking all the footnotes. 01:04:21,767 S1: Oh, and I know you, uh, the other thing, you referred to a water quality report from 2020. There's a water quality report from the DPW, from the water department. 2022. 01:04:37,801 S8: They do it every year, don't they? 01:04:39,667 S1: Well, we don't have the 2023 yet, but we have the 2022. 01:04:47,467 S5: Was that the Dewberry Report? 01:04:49,367 S1: No, it's on the town website. It's from the water department. And they have they go through and you know, the Commonwealth will tell them if there are deficiencies, you know, if they haven't done the appropriate testing or the testing shows. Uh, well, the school street well showed elevated levels of PFAS. 01:05:09,467 S5: They can't use it. The law is done. It's closed down. 01:05:12,400 S1: Yeah. So did they open it back up or it's still closed? 01:05:15,667 S6: The schools. 01:05:16,100 S5: They can't use. 01:05:16,701 S6: It. 01:05:16,901 S1: Yeah. So they have all that information on there. 01:05:20,868 S5: They'd say they could put a package plan in there to get the PFAS out, but, uh, reverse osmosis. 01:05:26,100 S1: I think it's expensive. 01:05:30,067 S2: I think they. Yeah. Not to drill into that, but. Yeah, I think the the grass was another thing. Right? That was I think I said I don't want to go down that path, but, uh. Um, and one other thing too, if we're just kind of lobbing stuff, I thought on page 57, I don't know that it made sense to have, you know, we talked we do talk about the development corp, HTC, but it's got a header of local policies and practices. I think it's kind of buried and maybe could use a little more meat on that bone, but unless it's referenced elsewhere, that's the only place I saw it. And we know Rick and Scott came into our meeting and they're going to be looking for that. And they've done a lot of good stuff. It references the mixed use housing, the way they started in 2016, and they're doing a lot right now to write. They've applied for a grant, but they continue to look. They're working with the town. They've got some money allocated. I think the working with the planning board. Right. So I don't know. Did what do you got. It's just under local policies and practices. I don't know if that deserves its own. 01:06:31,868 S8: What page is. 01:06:32,567 S2: That? I'm on 57. 01:06:34,100 S6: Okay. 01:06:34,501 S7: You know, to me, it's partly economic development. It's business development. Yeah. They're helping to promote the local reality of our business community, which is really important in my opinion. 01:06:50,868 S6: Right. 01:06:52,067 S2: It is in the major category 4.7, which is economic development. Just the header that is it's under is local policies and practices. 01:07:01,501 S4: Is okay? 01:07:03,100 S2: No, I don't know. I mean, what do you guys. I mean, it just seems buried. And there's probably a few more nuggets I'll send to kind of add to it, that's all. 01:07:11,167 S6: Yeah. 01:07:11,467 S1: So so that's that's true. And so on page 68 there's a key issue called strengthening the downtown. And that's where I referenced that the HTC was working in conjunction with the planning Board with respect to this form based code initiative, and try and incorporate section three A in that. So, um, the HTC its mandate doesn't extend to the Winthrop School. Their mandate is only in the business district. Correct. 01:07:45,868 S2: So just. 01:07:46,767 S6: Cutler. Yeah. 01:07:48,901 S1: Um, so, um, they almost have to work with the planning board in the event. And I know that it's not certain, but in the event the Winthrop School site became available. 01:08:03,767 S2: Agree. I messed up in printing. 01:08:08,767 S1: So yeah, that's another example. In some, uh, situations, you referred to the Hamilton Development Corporation. Corporation written out. Other times it's HTC and other times it's Hamilton Development Corp. Corp period. So we want to make sure it's all consistent across the board okay. 01:08:38,267 S4: All right. So. 01:08:41,701 S4: In terms of timeline for written comments just so I can get my calendar in order. Um, people who are actually planning on writing the comments push back if it, you know, doesn't sound reasonable, but, um, I don't know, like end of next week. Is that too soon? Um, what do you think? 01:09:00,467 S5: No. I get right on this thing. 01:09:02,000 S2: Yeah, I mean, that's fine for me. I mean. 01:09:03,767 S8: I actually have a week off, so. 01:09:05,767 S4: Oh. Very good. Yeah. And like I said, I'm not gonna wait to start this revision to get those comments back, but. Yeah, um. 01:09:12,000 S6: I. 01:09:12,767 S1: Actually, um, I don't know, when do you think you could get them to me, actually. You know what? I'll give you my comments here. 01:09:24,167 S6: Well. 01:09:25,100 S1: I'll give you what I have handwritten. You might have trouble reading my writing, but, uh, because I'm going to be really busy next week, and then I'm away for a week. 01:09:35,667 S5: Are you better off this week? Do you want to? Do you want to take this this week? And I'll do it next week? 01:09:40,367 S1: Well, I've already gone through it so I can give you my comments and then. And maybe you can just incorporate them and, uh, we'll leave it at that. 01:09:49,868 S6: Okay. 01:09:51,367 S1: And then you can always call me if you can't figure out what I've written. Just take a screenshot with if I'm going to be away, but you could take a screenshot with your phone and just say, what did you mean here? 01:10:06,868 S5: Of course, my writing is even worse than yours. 01:10:10,501 S2: Try to hit Friday next week. You know, if people need extensions because it's going to take longer. We want to get it right, you know? We'll definitely give some. But from from a planning perspective, let's try to, you know, get some feedback. 01:10:24,868 S5: Yeah. Let's get right on this thing so we can get it done. 01:10:27,567 S2: And certainly before then, maybe even tomorrow, start sending these themes of things that Sarah can have in her head as she goes through it and say, oh, yeah, okay, I should be looking for that, you know. 01:10:38,367 S4: And, you know, again, I've got a lot of notes from tonight, so, um, I'm ready to roll on fixing this up. Um, we're going to get you a really good document that, um, we all can be proud of. Um, this will all be ironed out. I will, I will make sure it is all right. 01:10:54,868 S2: Perfect. 01:10:55,968 S4: Um, so then you'd want to meet in March. 01:11:01,267 S2: So then, like, if we look at a calendar, like, if we get a two by the end of next week, you know, you need another week to do incorporate or look or you think by then you'll only need 60% of what we gave you because you've already hit it. You know, that's. 01:11:14,000 S6: Hard. 01:11:14,167 S4: To say. I mean, not having seen the comments, I don't know how many there are. I mean, I will certainly have addressed some of them in the general proofreading, um, wave. And based on the stuff I've already taken notes on, but I'm not sure. Now, the next couple of weeks are not that crazy for me, which is the least busy I get. So the timing is fine. So I can I can start right on it, I think. 01:11:40,868 S6: Um, so. 01:11:42,267 S2: So why don't we say so by 223? We're going to send you comments then, you know, by March 1st, you know, you'll shoot them back and we'll take another look at it and then try to get together. I don't know the first or second week of March. 01:11:58,367 S2: What did. 01:11:58,767 S6: We. 01:11:58,868 S2: Think about that? 01:12:00,100 S5: Yeah. I'm. 01:12:03,868 S5: I'm gonna. I let me get this thing out as fast. 01:12:05,701 S2: Yeah. Me too as well. 01:12:08,567 S6: Yeah. 01:12:09,167 S4: That's my goal as well. Um, you want to get this done and done right? So, um, I think that will be all right in terms of timing. 01:12:22,200 S2: And let's try to get a tentative date then on our calendars in March. What do I have going on? 01:12:32,467 S2: We have. 01:12:42,367 S2: We could be looking. What was our standard? Was it Wednesdays? 01:12:46,567 S4: Yeah, I think it was the second Wednesday. 01:12:48,367 S2: So yeah. Like the sixth or 13th. 01:12:51,601 S8: 13. 01:12:55,968 S2: Is that too far out or too close in or. 01:12:58,968 S3: That's our default meeting date. 01:13:02,267 S2: Okay, so 213. 01:13:04,000 S3: Because we're doing. Yeah, the 13th of of March, right. Every month and the second Wednesday. That's that. 01:13:10,567 S6: Okay. 01:13:14,267 S5: And we'll aim to have a final by then. 01:13:17,067 S6: Right. 01:13:17,567 S2: So maybe Patrick, should we just posted I don't know your availability. Um. 01:13:23,267 S7: We should just. 01:13:24,000 S2: Post. Let's just post it for, you know, review, uh, draft of master plan. And we're always looking to approve minutes if we have any. And, um, you know, pretty much mirror what we did for today. 01:13:36,567 S1: Oh, and could we get the appendices? And at that point, will we have, like, the pictures and any of the graphics inserted in here? Whatever. 01:13:46,067 S4: Um. 01:13:48,767 S4: Probably not. Probably going to be too focused on the content to get that done within the next few weeks. Um, but yeah, probably not. But those that would be the next thing we work on. Once, once the actual like content is set, then we can start formatting and making it look nice and you know. Yeah, no, the plan will look very nice. What you're looking at is, you know, ugly, unformatted. It'll look a lot nicer than that. 01:14:17,167 S5: Introduction. 01:14:19,167 S2: I'm going to take a stab at that and we'll circulate it around, you know, in parallel of what we're doing over the next two weeks. 01:14:25,067 S6: Mhm. Um, well, you know, I. 01:14:28,567 S1: We're the appendices actually referenced in the document. 01:14:32,467 S4: So the appendices are the um summaries from the public meetings, um, which you have seen I believe. Um, so basically that's just a record like a very direct record of what the public's input was so people can at least go and see what the public said, even if not all of it got, you know, perfectly incorporated into the plan. They at least have a record of, you know, this many people came. Here's notes on what they said. Um, just having that, you know, data live with the plan is something we'll typically do. 01:15:08,400 S1: Well, sometimes you reference public input. And I thought, you know, you might then refer to see appendix whatever. Um. 01:15:17,000 S6: Where. 01:15:17,467 S1: Oh yeah. Said the following. 01:15:18,868 S6: You know. 01:15:19,300 S4: Yeah. That makes sense. 01:15:20,067 S6: Actually. 01:15:20,868 S4: Yep. 01:15:22,701 S10: All right. 01:15:36,667 S10: All right. 01:15:38,667 S2: Any other discussions on the kind of schedule we outlined, you know, and what we'll do over the next few weeks. So by, you know, send tomorrow or by the end of this week. Some general notes on things to look for. By 223 we'll send back written comments. I don't know if you can provide a document for that us to put it in. 01:15:59,467 S4: I'll be sending a blank template for that. 01:16:00,868 S2: And then you'll push it back by March 1st. And then we'll post a meeting for 313, which is our regular, um, second Wednesday at 630. 01:16:14,367 S10: All right. 01:16:15,767 S5: And you think 4.1.1 map is is in here now? 01:16:21,701 S4: Uh, yeah. I will make sure that all the maps are labeled properly. And in the final document they'll probably be, um, like, interspersed in the relevant sections. Um, not all, like, thrown in at the end. 01:16:34,467 S5: I'll go check. Ted's information. 01:16:37,901 S6: About. 01:16:38,167 S2: Hey, he emailed. 01:16:39,267 S6: It to you. 01:16:39,667 S5: 800, 800 acres. I mean, does that include the cemeteries and everything else? 01:16:44,167 S6: Yeah. 01:16:44,601 S4: Yeah, it probably does. Yeah. 01:16:46,300 S3: Yeah. We could build a school in the cemetery. 01:16:49,767 S4: I mean, I'll double check. 01:16:50,767 S3: Obligated to, you know, propose or list. 01:16:54,300 S2: Yeah. 01:16:54,601 S3: Conceivable alternative sites before they concluded that it would be the same site, the current Cutler site or the correct. 01:17:01,567 S6: Cemetery. 01:17:02,100 S5: Would move once it used to be across from the post office. 01:17:05,267 S6: Post office? 01:17:07,100 S5: They moved it across the street. 01:17:08,567 S4: As a planner, I might not propose that, but hey, not my town. 01:17:14,400 S5: That would augment, apparently. 01:17:18,367 S5: All those damn stones. 01:17:19,601 S6: All right. 01:17:21,567 S4: I have nothing else. 01:17:23,100 S2: So I think we have a plan. 01:17:24,200 S6: Okay. 01:17:24,767 S2: Um. Good. Um, thank you, everyone, for going through this. And, you know, it's constructive discussion. We've got some work to do, but, uh, you know, we'll get there. As Sarah said. 01:17:34,567 S5: You want a motion? 01:17:35,567 S2: No. Any minutes available to approve. 01:17:38,567 S8: You know what? Nobody. I wasn't here last month, and nobody took minutes. and we didn't assign anybody tonight. I can take care of tonight's moments. I was paying attention. 01:17:49,000 S2: Okay. I will make sure we get minutes. 01:17:51,167 S9: On the next one. 01:17:51,667 S3: Then tonight. Tonight's minutes basically have one bullet point. 01:17:54,567 S8: I know I'll do them. 01:17:57,367 S2: And we'll. 01:17:57,868 S3: Shoot ensued. 01:17:59,167 S6: So let's. 01:17:59,567 S5: Head over. 01:17:59,968 S6: There. 01:18:02,067 S3: Real time. I'm eyeing it. 01:18:04,467 S2: The Jack attack. 01:18:05,801 S3: Jack is already summarizing. 01:18:08,467 S6: You. 01:18:08,601 S3: Jack. No, I wasn't I wasn't taking it. 01:18:10,667 S8: Okay. 01:18:11,100 S6: Yeah. 01:18:11,467 S2: So. Okay. So motion with a yes. 01:18:14,167 S5: Please move that. We adjourn. 01:18:15,667 S6: Second. 01:18:16,601 S2: All in favor? 01:18:17,868 S5: Aye aye. 01:18:18,801 S6: Aye. 01:18:19,667 S2: We adjourned at 748. 01:18:22,167 S6: Oh. All right. 01:18:23,367 S7: Thanks for driving. 01:18:24,267 S6: Up. 01:18:24,801 S4: Oh. No problem. 01:18:25,767 S2: Thank you for making the drive. It's good to see, you know. 01:18:28,767 S4: My pleasure. 01:18:29,601 S5: Um, that's useful now. 01:18:31,868 S4: Absolutely. I think this was good to be in person for. 01:18:34,567 S2: I don't know, I think we scared you.