00:01:58,870	S1:
Do I need to push this? You can hear me without me pushing it.

00:02:04,230	S1:
Pull the legs of the chair here. It being 7:00, I'd like to open the planning board meeting for Thursday, February 8th, 2020. For the for the town of Wenham. We're meeting in Town Hall. There's also a link available on zoom, and it looks like we are being broadcast on H.W.

cam. 00:02:23,699	S2:
Um, I'm getting a reverb.

00:02:25,830	S1:
This is a lot of reverb. Should other people turn off their mics when I'm speaking? No. Yeah. I'm good. Okay. Um, okay. So the first item on the agenda is, um, a public hearing on a zoning bylaw amendment that we started considering at our last meeting. Um, do you want to read this into the record, or shall I.

00:02:54,430	S3:
Um, either one in, if you would like to hear.

00:02:56,830	S1:
Um, it's a hearing pursuant to Mass General Laws, chapter 48, section five on a warrant article to amend the zoning bylaw of the town of Wenham to see if the town will vote to amend the Town of Wenham zoning bylaws to add a new section entitled Inclusionary Zoning, which will require a certain percentage of housing units in any new development, b to be deemed as affordable.

00:03:21,129	S1:
We had a conversation, Mister Madison.

00:03:25,270	S4:
Hello. Hello, madam chair in the.

00:03:27,569	S3:
The public hearing notice was in the newspaper on Thursday, January 25th and Thursday.

00:03:32,330	S1:
Oh, right. It's on the screen. And yeah, probably. I don't know if folks at home see the screen or not, but there's a public, uh, the the legal notice was posted on January 25th and February 1st. We had a conversation, um, after the last meeting with town council, who suggested that we not put this forward for the warrant. Do you have. Do you want to tell us about that?

00:03:56,930	S3:
Sure. Um, we've had a couple. Of iterations on this. And town council's advice was possibly to push this off until, hopefully, the fall town meeting. It's not quite ready yet for, um, to be finalized. And there's some question about current case law that recently occurred that may impact how inclusionary zoning can be used in municipalities going forward.

00:04:22,430	S1:
The the Stoneham case. Yeah, I think yeah. Although I think that wasn't her primary concern or primary concern.

00:04:28,269	S3:
It wasn't her. No, it wasn't her primary concern. She had some other concerns about, um, some of the details of the bylaw that we've drafted.

00:04:36,899	S1:
Yeah. The other conversation. The other part of the conversation was a thought that maybe the Affordable Housing Trust folks could come in and talk to us about the concerns that she was expressing to us so that we can work through what we can do with.

00:04:51,370	S3:
Yeah, and it doesn't seem like we'd have time to complete that before town meeting.

So. 00:04:57,329	S1:
Yeah, before the warrant has to be.

00:04:58,970	S3:
Yeah. Well, the warrant actually closed last night.

00:05:01,329	S1:
Right.

00:05:01,800	S3:
So we'd have to petition them to reopen it to get this on.

00:05:05,730	S1:
So that being the case, I'm going to open the public hearing because it's been posted. And if anyone's here to speak about it, we'd love to hear general ideas or concerns or anything. I don't want to turn anyone away from giving that testimony if they want to, but we don't have the the final text of the ordinance to to look at. So if no one's here to speak to that, I'm going to take a motion then to close the public hearing. And then at the time when we do have a text to talk through, we would repost a public hearing and do this again. So can I take a motion to.

00:05:47,370	S5:
I move that we close the open hearing?

00:05:50,029	S1:
Public hearing. Can I have a second?

00:05:51,529	S4:
Second?

00:05:53,170	S6:
Another going into executive session right away or closing?

00:05:59,670	S3:
Sorry.

00:06:00,230	S1:
Someone is. Yeah. Someone needs to mute if they're online. I appreciate the number of people attending online. I think it's terrific. But I would ask you, please, to mute yourself. You're not.

00:06:10,629	S3:
Smoking. I was going to say if somebody does want to speak, you can raise your hand and you can be recognized by the chair.

00:06:18,870	S1:
Thank you. So I have a motion and a second. All in favor?

00:06:23,899	S4:
Uh, woodland? Yes. Uh, Anderson I.

00:06:27,569	S1:
Weeks I.

00:06:28,329	S4:
Pescarolo I.

00:06:30,029	S5:
Clay, I.

00:06:30,870	S1:
Okay. That's fine that thing.

00:06:35,470	S1:
So the second item is um, administrative. It's a request from the Spring Hill Farm road subdivision for street acceptance. They would like to go to town meeting. And the last we heard about this, there were still things to do. DEP was going to go out there and take a look and see if they had done what they were meant to do. And then there was a question about tree planting. And so I don't know. Margaret, do you have a report? And I don't know if there's anyone here from Spring Hill.

00:07:07,399	S3:
Yep. I can fill you in. Um, the Select board did vote to, um, refer this back to the planning board for your recommendation. So the next step is for us to do our review of the project. And I have contacted the peer review engineers and the DPW director who will be going out inspecting the roadway and making sure all of the drainage is done correctly. I will have a final report for you for that February 29th meeting that you're going to be having. So at that time, you'll be able to make your recommendation to the select board as to whether or not you feel this road is ready for acceptance.

00:07:47,569	S1:
And will that be enough time to get it on the warrant?

00:07:50,730	S3:
Yes.

Yep. 00:07:51,769	S1:
Okay.

00:07:52,230	S3:
I spoke to the town administration for the warrant. Yeah, they they can probably reopen the warrant for us to put it on. Um, actually, they may have put it on the warrant already. I'm not sure if they voted last night to add it to the warrant. It was one of the one of the articles. So it could be on the warrant. But if it's not ready for acceptance, it can be passed over a town meeting.

00:08:13,329	S4:
Will your report include status on easements?

00:08:16,699	S3:
It will. Okay. Yes. Town council is looking at that.

Yeah. 00:08:20,430	S1:
Easements planting.

Mhm. 00:08:22,829	S3:
Yep.

00:08:23,269	S1:
There was a question about affordable units as well I think.

00:08:26,699	S3:
Yes. There is a question about that from the planning board's decision. Um this board will have to determine whether they feel that's been fulfilled or not. Thank you. And we'll have all of the information on that for you for the next meeting.

00:08:39,500	S4:
Oh so we're going to get peer reviewers.

00:08:42,669	S3:
We need to.

00:08:43,029	S1:
Speak into the mic.

00:08:43,799	S2:
Because.

00:08:44,169	S4:
Right. Yeah. I just want to make sure we're going to get peer reviewers who are going to conduct a survey. We're going to get legal guidance, and we're going to get the word from affordable housing in time for our packets a week before the hearing. I mean, that's in 14 days.

00:09:01,370	S1:
This is you're still back on the inclusionary zoning one?

00:09:05,269	S4:
No, I'm on Spring Hill.

00:09:06,399	S3:
Are you on spring?

00:09:07,000	S4:
Spring? Yeah. I mean, that just seems extraordinarily ambitious.

00:09:11,269	S3:
Um, the peer review engineers are out there. Um, I think they may have been out today. I spoke to them yesterday. I had a meeting with them. I feel like they should have a good idea of where where it stands by then.

00:09:27,399	S4:
I mean, my my concern is that, um, if we go into the February 29th meeting and there's any open items like, oh, we'll take care of this or this will happen happened before or this subject to this condition. I'm not going to feel good about that. Correct. I think it's got to be all parties have signed off on it and everything. All I's dotted, T's crossed. Um, yeah. With all due respect, the fact that this came in in January, when this was a topic of discussion last year, doesn't mean that we should rush this at the end. I mean, this is a big deal. It's a big development. And I think we just need to make sure that everything is sewed up perfectly. Yeah. The developer is motivated to get the street accepted. Then the the burden is on the developer to make sure that everything is taken care of on this one. Okay. Well, before the meeting, not on the 28th, but on the 29th. I mean, a week before the 29th.

Okay. 00:10:32,129	S3:
Okay.

00:10:33,330	S1:
Yeah. And if if if that can't happen, we probably should put this one off to the fall to.

00:10:40,830	S3:
That'll be up to you to make that recommendation to the Select Board.

00:10:43,570	S1:
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, we've just had so many people in with issues about this subdivision that I think all of us are a little sensitive to it.

Mhm. 00:10:54,929	S1:
Okay. So the next item on our agenda is also administrative. And it is an informal meeting by Gordon College and Pulte Homes on a development they would like to put forward um off on Grapevine Road. This is not a public hearing. However if people have um public statements they want to make or information or thoughts they want to provide to the board, we are totally open to hearing that, and we will stay until we are finished hearing that. So just so people know, we are quite open to that. I think the way this would go is the developer is here with a Presentation. Um, and then I would like to ask the board to ask questions of the developer, and then we will take any comment from the public who want to provide it. Just I think the purpose is to get reactions right.

00:11:53,899	S4:
Absolutely.

Feedback. 00:11:56,269	S7:
Suggestions? Reactions. Um, that's all welcome tonight.

00:12:00,529	S1:
And I want to make clear that you have not made a formal application yet. Is that correct?

00:12:04,529	S7:
We have not. No. We're at the very, very early stages of a hopefully a long, productive process between us and the town.

00:12:14,129	S1:
Okay. Thank you. Margaret. Do you have anything you'd like to add before we ask? Um, ask is your first name.

00:12:21,570	S7:
My.

00:12:22,429	S1:
Mark? Mark?

00:12:23,169	S7:
My name is Mark. I'm going to, um, just do an introduction for a couple of minutes, and then I'll turn the microphone over to Esic, who has, uh, has the presentation, and we'll go through the details of the proposal.

00:12:34,070	S1:
Okay. If you would please just state your full name for the record and who you are and what you know, who you're representing and all of that good stuff.

00:12:42,669	S7:
I'll try to.

00:12:43,029	S1:
Do it for our minutes. Thank you.

00:12:45,029	S7:
Thank you very much. So for the record, my name is Mark Mastroianni, and I'm here with Peter. And so we're representatives of Pulte Homes of New England, and we're excited to be here tonight. I just wanted to thank the board for putting us on the agenda and giving you giving us your time. I want to thank any interested members of the public for taking time out of your day and being here with us tonight, and as well as anybody at home on the zoom. Uh, as the chairperson mentioned, we'd love to present our proposal to the town, to the board. This is a start of a very long process. We're aware of that, and we hope to get very valuable, constructive feedback, feedback tonight that we can use moving forward to shape our project as as we as we move forward. So Esic and I are representatives of Pulte Homes in New England. Uh, can can I get to the second slide? Yes. So Pulte Homes of New England is a a local division of the Pulte Group. Pultegroup is a very large nationally national homebuilder, publicly traded, uh based. The Home Office is based out of Atlanta, Georgia. Um, we operate independently from Pultegroup. I just mentioned that I like to mention that at the beginning. Um, basically, Pultegroup provides our local division with, uh, internal financing. Uh, it allows us to, to construct, develop, sell our projects successfully, uh, in this area without the need for third party lenders or, you know, outside financing. Uh, so what I'd really like to do is kind of introduce Pulte Homes of New England to you All Pulte Homes in New England has been building here in eastern Massachusetts since 1994. Our local office, where we do our business out of is about an hour and 15 minutes, depending on traffic. Down 485 right in Westborough. We've been located in Westborough since 1994. Since that time in this area, eastern mass. Massachusetts, you know, we've developed, built, sold, um, over 8000 homes in this area. So we consider ourselves a very experienced local builder in this market. Next slide please. So this is just a list of our current communities that we're building today in the Boston area. Uh, so we have 12 active projects, uh, a variety of single family homes, townhomes and also what we what we specialize in, which is kind of a mid-rise building, which we like to call garden garden style buildings. Just wanted to point out a few of these examples that are that are closest to here. Uh, Riverside Woods number two on the list is a 200 home, uh, age restricted condominium community, um, in Andover on River road. That was a site that we partnered with Mel Mark's School of New England and worked with the town on a rezoning and were and successfully. We actually just completed the project this year, um, right down the road in Andover, uh, another community close by, uh, what we call Martin Martin's Landing. Uh, that's, uh, a community that we bought from the town a few years ago as the former state hospital on route 62. We we bought the site from the town. Worked with the town on a rezoning and and we're currently halfway through the project there of a 502 unit condominium. And then number ten, uh, what we call Highland at Vail. That's in Woburn. I'm starting to go a little further down 93. Um, and that's a large mixed use community where we partnered with the city of Woburn. Uh, and we removed it's a former, uh, Kraft gelatin facility. Uh, so we were able to clean up the site and remove, um, many other underutilized buildings and turn it into a productive, um, condominium community. Uh, right down the street in Woburn. And we have others as well. But I just wanted to kind of mention the the ones closest to here. And I think the importance of this list, our experience Is that Massachusetts, in these communities, it's a very small. This is a very small area. There's a lot of town officials that move around. A lot of communities talk with one another. And so, you know, we've been building here for over 20 years, and we believe we have a very positive reputation with the towns that we do business in. We're very proud of our reputation, and we haven't had an opportunity to work with the town of Wenham. I've been at Pulte Homes of New England for 20 years now, and, you know, we have not been able to construct a community in Wenham, and we're really looking forward to this opportunity that we have here. So with that, I'll turn it over to SEC. And he can present our proposal. And I thank you for your time and I thank you for your feedback.

00:18:22,869	S8:
All right. Next slide. Thanks, Mark. Thank you to the board. And thank you to everybody that's here in person and and remote.

00:18:29,269	S1:
Please do restate your name.

00:18:30,470	S8:
Sorry. Thank you. Essex Petrie with Pulte Homes of New England. I work with Mark in the land planning and Entitlement group. And before I get into the details of the concept in particular, I just wanted to point out the team of experts that we have partnered with for this project and that we pulled together to help work through this. Civil design Group and Matt Leitner, who's joined us here tonight as our site design and civil engineer, MDM transportation will be handling our transportation impact analysis based out of Marlborough, mass. SCA has done our natural resource evaluation, identification and analysis. And Weston and Samson we brought on for our wastewater and water infrastructure engineering. Next slide. So when we first started talking with the town about the potential for project, really the town had just begun on their master planning process. And from what I understand, the being finalized as we speak, and we've been following that process and all the impressive outreach and public engagement that's been involved as part of that project. And a few things in particular stood out to us as it relates to what we've been looking to do. And, you know, one of them related to this future land use map. That property along Grapevine Road, it was identified as one of the priority locations for balanced conservation and development opportunities, and really in Gordon College generally. And this location specifically was also identified as a priority location for economic development as part of the Master Plan outreach process. Additionally, one of the overall key findings from the Community Engagement Summary was the need for a greater diversity of housing types, including mixed use, multifamily, and senior housing. Now, by highlighting these elements, I'm not trying to suggest that we will align perfectly with what the goals that that will be stated and have been brought out as part of the master plan. But we really are excited to watch this process take form, and we are very confident that we can partner with the town to achieve some of the goals that have been laid out, at least in the draft statements that have been released that we have seen publicly. Thanks. Next slide. So I'm sure many of you are familiar with the site location, but just to give a little bit of context to make sure that everybody knows where we are in town, this is the eastern portion of the town of Wenham. Route 128 is kind of the right side of the the map there, with Gordon College just to the left. The parcel that we will be talking about is highlighted in yellow. For those familiar with Grapevine Road in particular, the parcels kind of behind the woodland parking lot and the koi pond area, and really the area that we will be talking about as far as looking at potential development. The first building is roughly 600ft off of Grapevine Road, so almost beyond where the parking lot is, and the majority of the development is well over 1000ft back into that, that parcel that you see highlighted in yellow there. Next slide. So this is the current concept. The lot size as it's shown it's approximately 78 acres. The concept includes seven four storey buildings and these are all electric buildings, so no fossil fuels on site. Each of the buildings has 50 units, so there will be a total of 350 units. This isn't proposed as an age restricted community. We are also anticipating a 10% affordable, so 35 affordable units included as part of the concept. Each of these buildings also does include a garage under, so that significantly reduces the associated surface parking required or typically provided as part of a building such as this, and each of those garages provides EV charging spaces. In addition, there will also be EV charging stations in the surface lots.

00:23:11,730	S8:
One of the things that the garage under Unders really allows us to do again, is to minimize that surface parking, and over 50% of the area of this parcel will remain completely undisturbed, with roughly less than less than roughly 10% becoming impervious to accommodate this number of housing. Number of housing units. In addition to the residential buildings, we are proposing some associated amenities to go along with the homes that would include a clubhouse. So the top of the page you can see the rotary. Yeah. Thank you very much, Mark. Right there it was where the majority of the amenities would be located. There would be a clubhouse as part of the clubhouse. There would be general gathering space as well as an exercise room and then a smaller meeting or quiet room. Additionally, there would be an outdoor patio and grilling area. There will also be a pool and accompanying patio with the pool and then across from that because you can't get away from pickleball. We will be putting the pickleball courts across from the the clubhouse and the pool. We are intending to seek a special permit from the Planning Board submitted under the Island Independent Living Overlay District. And we do believe that this project it it fits and complies well with those regs. But that being said, one of the reasons that we are here and is at this point is to talk openly and identify and consider any other opportunities or suggestions from a natural resources perspective. Clearly there is, if you're familiar with the site in particular, there are a lot of natural resources. It's a sensitive area. The blue hatched patterns on there represent wetlands. Once we had started with a GIS based wetland layer, which we've then gone out with our wetland scientist SWC. We also went out with conservation Agent and updated the line work and really kind of verified, and then made adjustments to um, to our the, the wetland line, which is what you see here. In particular, I will say just note the northwest corner of the parcel. Initially when we looked at the GIS wetlands, it didn't identify really any wetlands up there in that area. So getting out there in the site, we were able to identify that there is a significant wetland area in that section. So we adjusted our concept accordingly. There's no map priority or estimated habitat in the on this site. We have every intent to be respectful of these resource areas. And this concept really we have limited to no wetland, direct wetland impact. Uh, the tightest area is, is approximately, I would say 150 200ft off of Grapevine Road, adjacent to the woodland parking lot. There is a tight area there where we pass through in between, um, some wetland areas, but otherwise no direct impacts. Based on this concept and what we've identified from a utilities perspective, we have coordinated and communicated with National Grid. There is three phase utility or power, which is what we require because the buildings all do have elevators. They have confirmed and verified that they would be able to provide the necessary power for this project. Sewer would be accommodated via an on site wastewater treatment facility With associated leaching field and then water. As I noted earlier, we are partnered with Weston and Samson. We recognize that water in Wenham, and really in the region in general is a very critical resource. And so we're working with Weston and Samson, with the Town of Wenham, water Department and other water resources in the area to identify multiple different opportunities to bring water to service the site from a traffic perspective. Our partner, MDM transportation has done an initial feasibility due diligence assessment. Um, well, I know this feels like it's a large number of units. The traffic generated by an age restricted community the size is is not a significant generator relative to the type of volume and capacity available on Grapevine Road. The data shows that there is no concern for, um, the capacity on Grapevine Road or the surrounding intersections to handle the associated traffic. Uh, additionally, from the sightline perspective, our preliminary analysis of sightlines from that, the general location where we're showing that access shows that we can meet or exceed the required standards for sightlines.

00:28:37,130	S8:
Um, next slide. I'm sure there's a lot of questions related specifically to that, and we'll happy to come back to it. I'll just go through a couple more points.

00:28:43,900	S1:
But yeah, I should say we're going to let you go through your presentation. And then we I know the board certainly has questions for.

00:28:50,000	S8:
Absolutely. You know, and I mean, feel free to at any point if you would like to jump in.

00:28:55,099	S1:
Well we'll let you finish.

00:28:57,269	S8:
All right. Sounds good. Uh, trails. Um, you know, we We've been doing our homework and our research where we're aware and excited about the considerable trail network that's, um, you know, it's it's a resource. It's an amenity in this area. It's a gorgeous set of trails through this area. And quite frankly, we see that as an opportunity and and really an amenity for our project and our homeowners. What you can see there in the dashed white line is the existing trail network as mapped, uh, in context with the proposed concept. So ideally we really do not disturb that existing trail network, but yet enhance and integrate it into our project. And our goal would really be to maintain that access to that trail network, as well as providing it as an amenity for our future homeowners. Next slide. And so as we're going through the details, I just want to take a quick moment to talk about sustainability and green building. Over the past 20 years or so, this topic has really grown from buzzwords and fringe markets to really mainstream concepts that drive facets of our nearly every day to day life. And Pulte does a good job of weaving this mindset into every portion of our project, our commitment to building environmentally sensitive communities. It really starts with our land acquisition process and is evident throughout construction and into operation. Maintenance. During each phase of our project, we really work to identify and manage risks and opportunities associated with environmentally sensitive development. You know, from site planning, as I said, the inclusion of the underground parking, it really not only reduces the overall footprint of the impervious surface, but it also significantly decreases the amount of stormwater that would need to be managed on site. Building electrification I mentioned that these will be completely electrified buildings, meaning electric heat pumps, hot water heaters. So no propane, no natural gas, and no fossil fuel dependency or no emissions from the buildings. And as I mentioned, we do provide electric vehicle charging stations at the surface lots and also in the garages, and then from smart appliances to low E glass windows and advanced insulation techniques. We're really integrating new building products and practices into our material content and construction, really to not only for the efficient, more efficient use of the land, but also to minimize waste associated with that construction of the buildings. And we do install low flow fixtures and bathrooms and kitchens to ensure water conservation. And we vow strict compliance or exceedance of stormwater management standards using practices such as low impact development to to help us accommodate that stormwater management. Next slide.

00:32:04,730	S8:
So this is a rendering of some of the architecture that we've prepared for this project Wenham Woods. Um, we as Mark mentioned we have a lot of experience in the region. We have had a lot of success with similar style buildings in the region. Um, they've been very well received by the homeowners. And some of the highlights include, you know, defined front entrance, uh, elevator access to each floor. This, again, is a age restricted living. So from the garage down below to each of the floors, you have elevator access, which provides single floor living. Uh, we'll have the use of stone and composite accents to offer a variety of exterior materials, and the recessed balconies and box bays that add some projection and provide shading and some aesthetic value to the facade and the the style of the building. For years we've experienced developing these communities in these regions and we, you know, continuously survey and have outreach with our homeowners and take feedback from them and update and modernize our architecture based on that type of feedback, as well as coordination and communication with municipalities.

00:33:26,829	S8:
Really these, you know, these are our homes and buildings that people are proud to be a part of. And we emphasize that cooperation with municipalities and the expectation that, as Mark said, you know, we build products. We want to be welcomed back into communities. Next slide. So just to touch upon a few basics as far as kind of what wrapping into what we talked about as well as some other Elements. Some of the project benefits as we see it. You know, it provides a type of housing that really is currently unavailable and lacking in town. And again, as noted in the master plan, something that is mentioned as being desired by the residents does help the town grow their AFU um, as far as affordable housing units towards their total, with again the 10% of affordable units. And you know, currently this property doesn't provide any tax revenue to the town. And we estimate that upon buildout, this project would provide an estimated $2 million of net revenue annually to the town.

00:34:40,170	S8:
It's private condominium community. It's operated and maintained with minimal services. Service cost to the town, again, those costs that are associated, whether it's police and fire rescue were accounted for in that net revenue estimate.

00:34:55,300	S1:
Sorry.

00:34:59,230	S8:
And, you know, again, it's just the you know, what the what we saw as some of the again, the initial draft goals presented in the when a master plan, we found that it blended very well with the type of housing that this this could provide. And quite frankly, it feels like it's in a part of the community that would.

00:35:21,469	S8:
Be least impactful from a traffic perspective. And, you know, from a a density perspective, as far as the number of units able to be accommodated in this location. And so really with that, with that, I'll, I'll turn it over to the board and open to any questions.

00:35:42,829	S1:
Thanks. I'd like to explore where the water would come from for this development because I don't believe, and I don't know if there's someone here. I can't see everyone in the room from the water Commission who would like to speak to this, but it was my understanding that that we just don't have the water to supply this. And you tried Beverly Salem and that was not met with approval. So I'm just sort of wondering if you can be a little bit more specific about where the water would come from.

00:36:12,699	S8:
So I don't have a specific answer for you, but you're correct in that we've been talking and through Weston and Samson and their relationships with members of the Water Commission, as well as, um, others in town, that right now town of Wenham Water does not have the capacity to serve the project as is. We have not fully explored the Beverley Water. Excuse me. Beverley Salem water supply. We had at one point, uh, pursued uh, Beverley from a sewer perspective and looking to the south, the South Essex Sewerage District. Which that is maybe what you were referring to as far as, um, ran into a bit of a stonewall with that. But we have not fully pursued water from that perspective. But we're just getting started with the investigation on the water front, and we're looking to dive into a couple of different opportunities. And, you know, as we move forward, we'll provide additional information as we get it.

00:37:13,230	S1:
Yeah, because obviously that's.

00:37:15,699	S8:
With no water, no project.

00:37:16,969	S1:
Absolutely water, no project.

00:37:18,429	S8:
Absolutely.

00:37:20,170	S1:
Uh, is there anyone from the Water Commission, either in the room or on the box? Can you. Is there anyone? I don't know if we're seeing everyone here or if there's another sheet of.

00:37:33,670	S3:
No. That's everybody.

00:37:34,630	S1:
Everyone?

00:37:35,070	S3:
Yeah. I don't believe there is anyone here tonight.

00:37:41,099	S1:
Other members of the board have questions?

00:37:44,070	S9:
Chairman? Yes.

00:37:45,900	S1:
Okay. Mr.. Pescarolo and then Mr..

00:37:48,500	S9:
Could you put the concept diagram of the seven buildings up? Yep.

00:37:54,000	S3:
Let me just move this out of the way.

00:37:57,099	S9:
Sure.

00:38:02,969	S1:
Did you want this or the map?

00:38:04,000	S9:
No. Not that. That's the rendering. The. That one. That one. So, for your alternative access, right now, you're proposing to go through the parking lot. Correct. Do you have any other options for alternative access?

00:38:18,199	S8:
Uh, that's the alternative that we have looked at now. When we met with in this room, it was a group of, um, department heads from the town, including public safety, fire and police. Um, we walked through this proposal loosely, and we had originally proposed a different location through the parking lot. We adjusted it slightly based on those conversations, recognizing that it likely would still need some additional conversation because the the grades in that parking lot are challenging and the turns are tricky. So the alignment as it's shown right there likely wouldn't be the final condition, but the location. Generally speaking, we think that we could make work.

00:39:04,869	S9:
And approximately how long a distance is it from Grapevine Road to the rotary or the circle?

00:39:14,070	S8:
Sorry, this Matt Lardner from Civil Design.

00:39:18,699	S10:
I knew we brought you.

00:39:21,469	S9:
Good evening.

00:39:23,400	S8:
Good evening.

00:39:24,000	S11:
Everybody. Matthew Weidner with Civil Design Group out of North Andover, Massachusetts. The distance from grapevine to the rotary. There is approximately 1200 feet from where the alternative access that comes through the woodland parking lot meets what's called Street A. That road is about 500ft from that point to the rotary.

00:39:49,199	S9:
Okay. And last question for Essex. Yeah. Um, what is the approximate size of the units as far as square footage.

00:39:59,530	S8:
So there is a range in the size. So these are one bedroom and two bedroom units. And they range from a little over 1000ft to 1000ft². Excuse me to about 1600 maybe or. Yeah. Yeah, yeah 1000 to 1600. Um, again varies there are within the one bedroom or two bedroom there are different styles, um, within a one bedroom and a two bedroom. So there are ranges.

00:40:23,769	S9:
But so in terms of marketing, I'm not going to hold you to this. I'm just curious where would these fall.

00:40:30,369	S8:
So I'm glad you couched it already, but that you're not going to hold us to it. You know, that project, obviously, you know, we're years away from putting anything on the market and it's impossible to tell.

00:40:40,599	S9:
But I guess if you could, if it were on the market today.

00:40:43,969	S8:
Um, so you're not going to love my answer. Um, but it again, similar to that within each one bedroom and two bedroom, there are ranges in sizes. There are ranges in um amenities that within each of those. So a real rough number. And again it's going to change whether you're on the first floor with a view or if you're on the fourth floor with the view. So there's just a number of different factors that go in. But roughly between four between 400 and 600,000 would be a range.

00:41:12,769	S10:
If I could just expand on that, please. I think one of the better. Come to the microphone.

00:41:18,599	S12:
Excuse me. Can you come to the microphone, please?

00:41:20,300	S10:
Because we're on I just want to expand on that a little.

00:41:22,300	S7:
So that's that was perfect. But one of the benefits of a community like this in housing like this and that, it's different than what you have. And we think it provides a different type of housing than what's in town. And the reason these community Communities have been successful is that it provides a wide range of of prices. So from the affordable homes that are in the 200,000 to the one bedrooms, that could be in the high three 400,000 to the two bedrooms, that could be, you know, 5 or 600,000. It's it's the beauty is it's the range of the prices, which offers a wide selection of homes to a wide range of of buyers that might not necessarily be able to afford anything in other parts of town or in this area, frankly. So, um, you know, that that's that's something that really works well for, for these types of communities.

00:42:23,269	S9:
Yeah. And I promise I'm not holding you to the I just wanted to get a ballpark. I had no idea.

00:42:27,369	S7:
What's the interest.

00:42:28,300	S10:
Rate?

00:42:30,530	S1:
Well, you guys clearly have evaluated the tax benefit to the town, so I'm sure that's based on some.

00:42:36,070	S8:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's coming from today. So Dan, real quick, just one more thing I wanted to add to your question about the access, because you'll note that moving north of where the driveway D accesses the rotary WI, it's a kind of a boulevard with with two separated side sides separated by a median, intentionally based on again, the conversations with fire and and police so that in the event that you know there is an issue on one side, it doesn't you know, it's it provides a wider berth for passing through.

00:43:14,070	S9:
Yeah. I mean, I mean, the concern with that with the longer access road is if, you know, if something happens, you can't get back. There's just some other way to get in there. And I'm looking I mean, we're way too early in this process. But that just that was something that I had a question about. I didn't know if you were able to possibly put alternative access. This might go outside your lot line, But on the northern is that the north, not the northwestern corner, but sort of the edge of that light green? No other way right there. I don't know if you're able to come out around that way if there's some alternative access to grapevine. I was just curious.

00:43:47,130	S8:
Yeah. That is outside of the property boundaries. Yeah, but thank you.

00:43:54,329	S1:
Mister Woodland.

00:43:55,199	S12:
I have two questions. Thank you for your presentation. Sure. Thank you. Um, I have two questions. One centered around the topology of the land and how you're going to deal with their hills and valleys that are there. And in that related question, is this going to sink into the woods or rise above the trees?

00:44:12,500	S8:
No, that's a great point, because if you're familiar with the site, there's no secret that there is a pretty significant climb. And the design of the site plan is if we had the topography on here, you would see that the the lowest building, if you will, the first building, if you're coming up, is kind of Situated before there is a steep climb, and then those other six buildings and the amenities would be kind of up on, kind of climbing up that that there is a significant change in topography there. So the goal is to build these buildings into that, that hillside, uh, recognizing that once you get up there, it is a plateau. So we would not be sinking them too much. It would, you know, we would be lowering a portion of it to get the roadway up there. And then from there getting from the roadway to the garage under, there would be some lowering associated just for access. But they, you know, keeping earthwork to a minimal while, also kind of building the buildings into the existing grade would be the goal.

00:45:21,699	S12:
Thank you. There might. My hope would be if we were going forward with this, that we see some renderings from the street at Grapevine Road, looking across and up to see what they're going to look like. If you have an example, you could look at the Manchester development happening up 128. That's going to kind of shine a beacon around that neighborhood.

00:45:39,329	S10:
And that's the development.

00:45:41,099	S12:
It's Manchester on Route 128. They're building a big wall road up. And it's going to be sticking out like a beautiful beacon in an otherwise treed neighborhood.

00:45:52,329	S8:
And it's certainly something that we can start to provide as we move along. Whether it's a rendering, we can also go out and just perform simple balloon tests just so that we can, you know, get an actual sense from the roadway. But and again, there is significant buffer, um, you know, from, from a wooded perspective, and it is a significant distance off of grapevine that, you know, that that cul de sac. It's like, you know, Matt said it's you know, that that area is 1200 feet off of Grapevine Road. So there is a good distance.

00:46:25,099	S12:
And my next question is surrounding commercial space on the property to try to keep residents on space, as opposed to running out for bread and milk or, you know, errands for a quick dinner. Are there any ideas of making this a full community where you also have commercial locations to.

00:46:42,070	S8:
It is not something that we have as part of this concept. It doesn't currently comply with the zone as it as it stands today. Um, certainly having amenities on site is um, could be an attractive opportunity for our homeowners as well as the town in general recognizing the location. Um, it's removed from this side of town so that having something in that area could be beneficial for all. Uh, it has come up in conversations we've had with the planning department and others in town and with Gordon College, and it is definitely something that we would entertain in those conversations with Gordon and with the town.

00:47:22,170	S12:
I'm just being practical because, you know, traffic studies and all that kind of stuff doesn't get into the head of people. And I could see them turning right to grapevine, left on Larch Row to head down to South Hamilton to be doing their shopping, which are windy roads at best, and to try to keep people kind of in that development to help them. You know, ease of acquiring stuff would be helpful.

00:47:43,530	S10:
So I appreciate.

00:47:44,599	S12:
That. And I just want to confirm my site, my concerns about water. Right. Water here is getting scarcer and scarcer. The Ipswich River is considered one of the most endangered river water supplies in the country, and conservation isn't enough. So we just need to be careful about this.

00:48:02,070	S8:
Yeah, I appreciate that.

00:48:03,099	S12:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you.

00:48:06,369	S5:
I think Gordon College gets all their their water from the Beverley Salem water supply.

00:48:10,769	S8:
They do? Yeah. That's right. And, um. Yeah. And we've we have, you know, in the process we've talked to them about that. We've talked about Beverly Water Salem. And you know we are continuing those conversations.

So. 00:48:26,670	S8:
Then they actually have means right up to the woodland parking lot area.

00:48:33,230	S1:
Do other board members have questions? Mr.

Anderson? 00:48:37,900	S4:
Um, so what about trash?

00:48:42,269	S8:
So there are trash recycling facilities as part of each of these buildings. Uh, each of the. So it's hard to tell on this site plan. And again, this is a very conceptual level, but, um, you know, we have more defined and developed communities that are built very similar to this. Uh, there would be an area typically close to the garage entrance outside of it for a dumpster. Each of the floors would have a trash chute, uh, dumps down to the garage, and then that gets wheeled out in the trash. Uh, comes and picks it up. That's part of the, uh, condo association fees from a trash pickup. And additionally, again, we haven't refined this concept yet, but we would be providing recycling facilities as well for a, um, an area like this, likely there would be at least two, potentially three locations for recycling for the homeowners.

00:49:40,699	S4:
And um, these would be public roads.

00:49:46,900	S8:
No, the expectation is that the roads would stay open.

00:49:51,570	S13:
And treats.

00:49:52,329	S4:
And well.

00:49:52,800	S13:
Being.

Yeah. 00:49:55,599	S10:
Yeah.

00:49:55,929	S12:
We remind people.

00:49:57,500	S6:
My computer on because they tell you this is about, um.

00:50:00,469	S9:
Everybody.

00:50:00,929	S10:
Margaret.

00:50:01,400	S1:
Yeah. Can you do that? Margaret, please? That would be lovely.

00:50:06,070	S7:
Thanks. So I just want to clarify that. So Street.

00:50:09,599	S10:
A.

00:50:10,599	S7:
Off of Grapevine Road to the rotary. We're proposing that to be a public right of way so that you can see the, um, the yellow Low lying there. You can't really see it on this, but the yellow line there is right of way. So that would be a public subdivision roadway. And then and then all of the condominium buildings and the rest of the the area would be part of the privately owned and maintained condominium.

00:50:39,199	S4:
And would it be restricted access?

00:50:42,400	S7:
I'm sorry.

00:50:43,170	S4:
Would it be restricted access? I mean, obviously the public wouldn't have a right to ingress, but would there be some type of private security or something to enforce access?

00:50:53,469	S7:
Yeah. We're, um, we're not intending to have a gated access. It would be a private community, but, um, we typically don't provide any kind of private gate or anything like that.

00:51:07,170	S4:
So I saw the the number of 2 million net revenue. So my math was 500 unit, units. 350 units.

500,000. 00:51:23,300	S4:
1550 for rough numbers per thousand. Assessed is about 2.7 million. So is the. Is the estimate that the services draw on the Committee on Community would be about $700,000.

00:51:41,800	S8:
As a rough number.

00:51:43,469	S10:
Very, very close.

Yeah. 00:51:45,500	S14:
My question.

00:51:46,369	S10:
Yep.

00:51:46,730	S4:
And what is that 700 comprised of.

00:51:50,099	S8:
A lot of that is police and fire and calls. And there are, um, you know, national equations that are typical for communities, age restricted, in particular based on locations, you know, suburb, rural, that kind of breakdown. And so it's based on that, um, that number.

00:52:07,500	S4:
So for the 350 units, how many residents would you expect?

00:52:17,369	S7:
It's just a guess. But maybe 1.5 residents per. Per unit. So maybe 500, um, residents.

00:52:28,400	S9:
So just to follow up on Dave's question, when you're calculating the net revenue, are you using. Is it roughly a 25% ratio that you're using for expenses, town expenses? Yeah.

00:52:42,429	S7:
Um, so, you know, we did a and we can provide this to the board after the meeting. Um, we did a simple financial impact analysis based on other, more formal one, more formal ones that we've done at other similar types of communities. We use Mark Fougere who, who does our formal impact studies. And we'd be happy to provide that during the process. Um, but basically the revenue is is property taxes. Um, and based on the projections of the sales prices, we we had $2.5 million in total taxes. So you you were right on. Um, again, you know, whether it goes up, you know, or down, it's still a lot. Um, is what I like to offer. Um, because these are all projections, so there's no right answer. But but, you know, is it positive or is it negative? And it's really positive. Um, and then there's also motor vehicle excise taxes. So, um, you know, on this exercise, I assumed 1.25 vehicles per unit, um, at $25, uh, approximate average value of the of the vehicle is $15,000. Again, standard um values used in recent typical, um, professional impact studies.

00:54:02,099	S9:
So I'm just so does it work out to it's something like 20 to 25% of the revenue is what you expect for services.

00:54:09,530	S7:
No, no, we actually we had a small small cost for education in there. Okay. Very small. I mean, this this is an age restricted community. We do not foresee any kids at all, but somebody can certainly argue, oh, you're going to you're going to get 1 or 2. And and it's possible. So there's a small, um, cost of, of education in here. There's a $1,000 per residential unit for police and fire. That's what Mark has used in recent studies, which is actually pretty conservative. Um, we believe um, there's, um, we have $25,000 in here annually to the Council on Aging, and then there's a $50,000 annual O&M for the for the public street, uh, a for for maintenance of that street. Uh, so that again, came came out to about $625,000 in cost annually. And you and you back that out of the revenue. And we were we were just over $2 million Annually net positive to the town, whether that's 1.8 or 2.5. I'm not sure what the real number will be and what the number will be two years, five years, ten years from now. But I can guarantee you that it's it will be significantly positive.

00:55:29,369	S1:
I have a couple I have a question back on the parking situation. Your rendering shows quite a lot of on the site on the street parking lot type parking. But you were describing underground garages. There's a lot of ledge and rock on that. Are you really going to be able to do underground garages there, and if so, do you need the additional parking in front? It's it's.

00:56:00,699	S8:
The.

00:56:01,369	S1:
Beautiful.

00:56:02,269	S8:
The parking that we're showing here is fairly is typical of these types of communities that we found at roughly 1.8 space ratio, is kind of the, um, the happy medium we found with our homeowners. And that's what this is demonstrating, is that 1.8 space per unit.

00:56:21,429	S1:
How many, how many spaces under the buildings.

00:56:23,429	S8:
Then there's 50 in each.

00:56:25,869	S1:
And you still need the full parking.

00:56:29,170	S8:
Well, it would be a lot more if we didn't have those. But those the amount that we're showing is what is necessary to hit that 1.8 number.

00:56:39,400	S12:
May I I understand.

00:56:40,670	S1:
That woodland.

00:56:41,369	S12:
There are 50 units per building. So you're allowing one covered space per unit essentially about.

00:56:48,269	S8:
If you want to.

00:56:49,070	S12:
So if you have more than one car per family you'll need the outside space as well.

00:56:53,030	S8:
That's right. Additionally to for visitors to age restricted, if you've got family members visiting whatnot, we want to make sure that um it accommodates that, you know, parking. It's an interesting balance, especially for suburban communities. You know, a lot of the trend has been for reduction per unit in more urban areas. And then you run into situations where you don't have the parking to accommodate guests, visitors and whatnot. It tends to. Now you're dealing with an overflow parking type of situation. It's a balance. Again, this is a ratio that we've found that has worked in very similar communities that we've that we've found to be successful.

00:57:30,769	S1:
And you don't think you're going to have any problem with that underground garage in this location?

00:57:35,869	S8:
Our expectation is no, but we have not gone up and done borings or, you know, that sort of testing yet. But recognize that that there is definitely ledge in the in the site.

00:57:47,869	S1:
Thank you.

00:57:50,329	S9:
Last roadway question for you. I know there's been some concerns from the fire department about access around the perimeter of the buildings. Um, so have you have you considered, um, have you considered, um, having a sort of a roadway behind those three buildings, sort of off the main drive here. So you have more circulation.

00:58:09,869	S8:
So and we have had this exact conversation with the fire department and it's, it's typical for all of our communities. So again, this concept plan doesn't show it. So what we would do in this situation there wouldn't be a full access roadway behind it, but there would be there would be fire access that would essentially come off of where you would t into the the garage under it would continue straight and then go and then go around. And the the code is that it has to be within 250ft. And so that would obviously we would put together something and confirm it and work with the fire department. But the goal is to hit that code as far as being within the 250ft.

00:58:51,230	S9:
And would that connect back to the main drive here, or are you just talking about just behind the buildings?

00:58:57,000	S8:
It would be just behind just like halfway behind the building. Again, it's something that we would certainly work through the design with the fire department to make sure that they were comfortable with. But that is something that we have found that achieves compliance with that code.

00:59:15,170	S1:
Is that the last question from the board? For the time being.

00:59:18,400	S4:
I have a question. And if you don't know Margaret, that's okay. We'll just say we don't know and consider later if we increased our stock, housing stock as a town. Um. By what? 25%. Okay. Um, would that affect us in terms of the MBTA numbers, or is that just fixed in stone at this point?

00:59:40,130	S3:
I don't think it would affect our numbers.

00:59:42,000	S4:
No, it was just.

00:59:43,099	S3:
A one point VTA zoning in place long before this was built.

00:59:46,130	S4:
So MBTA is not going to be a rolling situation.

00:59:49,570	S3:
It's not going to be what?

00:59:50,469	S4:
Rolling.

00:59:50,969	S1:
No, no, because this is a long time.

00:59:53,969	S4:
Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know if you've if anyone's done the math, but obviously our affordable numbers are actually better than 10%, which is good. So if these were 10%, it would drag down our numbers. Um, do we know how much that would have, what our net percentage would be if this were 10% of 35 or 350?

01:00:17,500	S3:
Um, I have not done the math. Currently, we're at 12.8%. Um, but I haven't done the math. If we had 350 units, these would essentially negative out because you have to be at 10%. So I think our numbers would stay the same would stay at 12%.

01:00:37,300	S4:
Well it would bring it down. I mean it.

01:00:38,829	S1:
Would be.

01:00:39,170	S4:
Down.

Yeah. 01:00:40,000	S9:
It would still be over 10%, but.

01:00:42,000	S4:
We'd have less of.

01:00:42,869	S9:
A buffer.

12%? 01:00:44,070	S7:
Yeah.

01:00:44,429	S9:
12.

01:00:47,000	S3:
Yeah. We can do the math.

01:00:50,699	S1:
If the board has finished for the time being, I know there's a couple people in the audience who represent town. Other town committees. I'd like to ask them to speak first if they have something to say, and then anyone who wants to get up and give their statement. Mr.

LaRusso. 01:01:12,929	S1:
Again, please. Your name and who you're here for in addition to yourself.

01:01:18,400	S8:
Uh, Phil Russo, chair of the Conservation commission. Um, so I don't know if you're the right people to ask these questions to. And I'm sure we'll have our Dane, uh, in front of you guys in front of us. But could you, um, talked about the wetland delineation being originally GPS? I'm assuming that was the state, uh, data. Um, and then, uh, you went out in the field? Um, when I know we did a field walk with you guys, and there was a question of when the wetlands defined as Wenham wetlands under our bylaws versus state. Um, wetlands. Um, so is that what you were talking about when you said northwest Corner? Well.

01:02:10,570	S1:
Yeah, we got to share the mic.

Sorry. 01:02:13,599	S8:
Um, so in particular, that northwest corner was an area that was not depicted as part of the GIS wetland. Not necessarily a distinction between state versus local. It was more of an area that was not, um, picked up on the GIS wetland. But when we went out there, it was clearly identified as a as a wetland area. And so we added it to this as a state.

Yeah. 01:02:36,400	S7:
Yeah.

01:02:37,170	S8:
Yeah. So, so this delineation doesn't necessarily represent when in wetlands it it's we have um.

01:02:44,969	S13:
Sorry.

01:02:46,699	S8:
The boundary does represent the boundary does represent both. Um, there are some pockets where we do have defined differences. We have a graphic that shows that level of detail. And certainly as we go through the process, we'll walk through that with you.

01:03:04,199	S7:
So just to clarify.

01:03:06,300	S1:
Please use the microphone.

01:03:08,400	S15:
I'm sorry.

01:03:09,500	S12:
The reason for that is that we.

01:03:10,500	S13:
Have to.

01:03:10,869	S7:
Clarify. So we use the GIS. And then we did have a walk with it. Well then we did have a wetland scientist do the flag, the wetlands or verified wetlands on the ground. And we did have an informal walk with members of the commission. Um, but they're not officially verified. So I don't want to give the wrong impression. So we have not gone through the official and read all rad process with with your commission. I hope you know. So we would still need to do that. The commission has not approved the wetlands that we're showing. We just feel comfortable with the wetlands that we have because we had a wetland scientist help us, you know, use them for planning purposes.

01:03:50,900	S1:
And can I just ask a question Following up on that is every surface on the plan, as you've shown it, sufficiently far away from the wetlands to meet the ordinances? In other words, I think it's 100ft.

01:04:04,869	S8:
Well, it depends on the type of wetland, which is.

01:04:06,969	S13:
The next question.

01:04:07,769	S1:
Right. Right. Yeah. I wonder if you've done that thinking.

01:04:11,969	S13:
We.

01:04:12,300	S7:
We are confident that the development that we're proposing will comply with the local and the state regulations. And we look forward to working with the Conservation Commission through their process, the same way we would work through the Planning Board with your process. So we will have, you know, our day and lots of days together.

01:04:33,300	S1:
I have to ask one more question, and that is concerning the water. I mean, if you tried to get water from a well, say, or a well field on this site, what would that do to the all the water bodies and wetland areas around the site? Would it have an impact? Oh. I'm sorry. I'll let you go then.

01:04:52,369	S13:
Yeah. Go ahead.

01:04:53,869	S7:
So? So that is a possibility. We have not got there yet, but I would I would just say that we're at a high level here. We don't have we don't have Westen and Sampson with us. And I'd really like Westin and Samson to get those questions. And for Westin and Samson to be able to to answer those those those questions. I don't think I'm qualified to be able to answer those questions in a proper manner, but but we.

01:05:19,070	S1:
Would.

01:05:19,699	S7:
Certainly have to, um, we would have to have all of those questions answered during the process.

01:05:30,599	S13:
Of this.

01:05:31,730	S8:
Um, so this is more of a statement than a question. Um, when we were doing the sidewalk, there were questions about the presence of potential vernal pools on the site, which has a different setback requirement than isolated wetlands. And so I don't know if your consultant has done that level of analysis yet, but it is getting to be that time of year when it is the appropriate time to identify those resources. And so if they haven't done it, you may want to get them out in the field in March to do that. No thank you. And that was actually another one of the adjustments we made in the field was there was again through the GIS resources, there was a potential vernal pool identified, um, at the north, kind of where the words Hamilton and Wenham, but on the Hamilton side. And then when we went out there, the, um, blob, if you will, of of blue hatched area beneath the Wenham text is actually that where that vernal pool is. So, you know, we have started to address some of those differences in the field, but we have not done the official vernal pool certification process yet, but certainly that would be a step for sure.

01:06:52,300	S13:
Okay.

01:06:53,500	S8:
And could I ask, do you have an estimate of in the the light green hat area. So basically the footprint of this development, how many trees you'll be removing in that process. I don't know. I don't have that estimate for you at the moment. Um, might might I suggest that, um, we have a tree policy in town, um, where we ask homeowners when they're removing trees of certain diameter to consider replacing them elsewhere. Um, and so might you consider some type of mitigation for that activity?

01:07:34,369	S8:
It's certainly something that we will be happy to discuss with you as we go through the process.

01:07:43,269	S1:
Is there anyone else from a board or committee that would like to speak.

01:07:51,469	S11:
Um, hi.

01:07:52,099	S16:
Ted Batchelor uh, my one question is, uh, the leaching field. If I remember, I haven't been out there for a while, but that was pretty rocky and leggy. And so I'm wondering if a leaching field will work there. And is it going to leach into koi pond?

01:08:13,199	S1:
Great question. I don't have the answer, but I think the developers.

01:08:17,270	S8:
If you go back to the go back to the previous slide, please. Yeah. So we don't have the A field location determined in particular, but the reason that it is over in that location. And to be clear, that yellow line that's shown on the Jason is kind of a fictitious property line in discussion with Gordon College and, and us, but that is actually an amazing pocket of sand and gravel soil in that area. So this is an area if you're familiar with, um, this section of the woods back there. Gordon College's ropes course is a little bit further east from here. And we've we have actually gone out there and done a decent number of soil tests in this location to do exactly that, to confirm what we found from the NRCS soil maps. And we did confirm that it is a great grand, excuse me, gravel and sand deposit in that area. So but obviously anything that we would propose or plan in that area would be require significant dep um review and um, reassurance that as far as the leaching into poi pond, right.

01:09:30,699	S16:
Yeah. How deep the sand is before ledge if.

01:09:34,500	S13:
Yeah, absolutely.

01:09:35,130	S8:
Yeah. We and I can assure you we I was out there during the testing and it was significant.

01:09:39,899	S13:
Okay.

01:09:40,569	S16:
My second question is on the affordable housing. Um, is that still age restricted? Yes. Okay. Thank you.

01:09:50,300	S1:
I have a follow up on the leaching field. Um, presumably tree cover would be removed there if that was, in fact, your leaching field. Correct. Um, where do the trails go relevant to that? Because my recollection is that there's trails all around in that area.

01:10:07,199	S13:
There. There are.

01:10:08,369	S8:
So there you go. Um, so there is a trail through that area and, you know, it will be taken into account when we look at the location of that field area. And we've gone out there, as I mentioned, and done a significant amount of testing, and we have a good understanding of, you know, the size that would be needed and, you know, balancing again. Gordon's ropes course, and they have a facility out there. So balancing the two would be important in the location.

01:10:35,869	S1:
Do you have a topography overlay for this map. I mean.

01:10:40,729	S13:
I don't I.

01:10:41,369	S1:
Don't think of that area as flat. I've done a lot of hiking and running back there, and.

01:10:46,729	S13:
This.

01:10:47,170	S8:
Actually it is pretty. We do have the topography. I don't have it with us tonight, but it's certainly something that we can share with you and walk through.

01:10:55,500	S1:
I'm just wondering if your leaching field is on a hill or it's.

01:10:58,500	S13:
No, it.

01:10:59,000	S8:
Is actually, it's a surprising. Again, we identified it using NRCS soil maps, you know, just on a desktop and went out there in person and verified it and then went out and did further testing with the machine and further verified the types of soils as well. So it is a relatively flat area out there in this section.

01:11:17,369	S1:
Thank you.

01:11:19,199	S12:
Can I ask one more question on leaching? Yeah. One concern I have too, is putting that many homes on a leaching field is the these forever chemicals that are coming up. PFAS mitigation. Is there anything you can do to in your leaching process to stop that from hitting the groundwater? Because it's either it gets into the aquifer. Now we're faced with a town wide problem of cleaning that up.

01:11:42,970	S13:
So yeah.

01:11:45,000	S8:
That would be part of the DEP analysis and whatnot that would be going through.

01:11:50,300	S12:
Thank you. Thank you.

01:11:53,569	S1:
Okay. I'd like to open it up to anyone who'd like to speak. Oh, Jim.

01:11:58,600	S13:
Um.

01:11:59,770	S1:
Can you please come up and use the microphone? Because we're on TV and I'm sure everybody at home would like.

01:12:04,369	S13:
To.

01:12:05,029	S1:
Hear you.

01:12:06,399	S17:
Jim Purdy, larch row. If this project goes through, I have two questions. Um, the amount of construction, traffic, trailers and so on. Would you be working with the police department to assure that hopefully most of it comes off of 128 and it's going to impact Gordon College, I think more, as opposed to large trucks coming through from one A or or coming through dodges, Rowan and Beverly. That's the first question. And the second question is. Excuse me if this project does go through. What's your experience from the first dig in the ground to completion?

01:12:47,529	S1:
In other words, time frame timeline.

01:12:49,300	S13:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:12:51,770	S8:
So to answer the first question, we certainly would be working with town and police department in particular on both the traffic management plan generally, but also a temporary construction traffic management plan as well, so that.

01:13:07,000	S13:
Specific topics.

01:13:08,170	S8:
We would walk through in in painful detail with our traffic consultant, MDM, as well as the police department and DPW and others within the town. So it's certainly something that there would be ample opportunity to comment on the specifics of from a temporary construction traffic perspective.

01:13:25,600	S1:
Can I ask you to say something more forceful than that, like you would commit to trying to assure that.

01:13:32,729	S13:
I.

01:13:33,800	S1:
Construction trucks won't go through downtown Windham.

01:13:36,970	S8:
I certainly can't stand up here and say today that I would commit to any of that. But what I will commit to is that when we get to the point where we're having that conversation, we will be happy to understand what diversion routes would make, wouldn't make sense, and talk through those different options. Absolutely. Commit to having those conversations when we have the data and the detail, to be able to understand what those, you know, traffic patterns would mean.

01:14:04,100	S1:
And then I think there was a second.

01:14:05,670	S8:
The second question was related to the timeline from construction. Typically we see for each of these buildings and they would be built sequentially. It's a roughly nine month build process for each of those buildings. And so we're looking at seven of those. So you're looking at probably a six year construction period or so.

01:14:30,500	S1:
I see. Did you? Do you have a follow up? And then this gentleman needs to speak. Yeah. If you could come up. And unfortunately, we have to ask you to use the mic because we're on TV and they can't hear you otherwise.

01:14:43,670	S17:
So the town. So from start to finish, six years. So you complete a building. The tax revenue from that would be generated once that building is occupied. Is that the way that would work. So we would see an incremental increase in taxes over a six year period. It's not like we're going to get 2 million net year one correct.

01:15:08,199	S13:
Absolutely.

01:15:08,869	S8:
And so that that number that was referenced was at full.

01:15:13,569	S13:
Build.

01:15:14,000	S17:
That full.

01:15:14,399	S13:
Build up. Okay. Thank you.

01:15:16,270	S4:
Yeah. Pretty quickly.

01:15:17,800	S13:
Now take your taxes.

01:15:20,170	S1:
Thank you for your patience, by the way. All of you.

Really. 01:15:25,770	S18:
Good evening. Mike Novak, Conservation Commission member. Can we go back to the previous slide?

01:15:34,369	S18:
I didn't catch this in your initial presentation, but I just saw you pointed out the leaching field. There's quite a large wetland in between your developed area and the wet and the leaching field proposed. Curiosity strikes me as how we're going to get from A to B. I don't know if you want to.

01:15:52,029	S8:
Yeah, that's absolutely something that we have not determined exactly. But it is certainly something that we will have to investigate and provide significant detail on when we identify that that route.

01:16:04,069	S18:
So as a follow up, if, if that area or the the route doesn't work out, do you have enough area. There must be some preliminary sizing in terms of how big of a system you're going to need. Roughly, do you have enough area in your previously determined developed area to accommodate?

01:16:24,300	S8:
As far as accommodating a leaching field in the area where the buildings are.

01:16:27,670	S13:
Developed, correct?

01:16:28,569	S8:
The soils in that area are not as amenable to that. Where that location that we've identified with that leaching field is ideal for that purpose. So right now, that is we are investigating the ability to get to that area.

01:16:44,930	S18:
Okay. One more, if I may, please. Um, we talked about a 1200 foot roadway from grapevine to the to the circle. And of course, there's a lot of other surface parking that's been brought up before, uh, snow removal, not only snow removal, the areas, but also treated, uh, snow. We have pretty much surrounding resource areas around the entire property. So more of a statement than a question, but we're really going to need a solid plan on that. And do you have enough area for snow storage if we get a winter, unlike the past couple that we've had ever again?

01:17:21,930	S8:
So for the first part of the question, we will certainly work with the town to identify whatever treatment program the town typically uses for their roadways. And from a snow storage perspective, that is a typical design component, an element that we build into the site. Planning of the in the location of the buildings.

01:17:40,100	S18:
All right. And, um, I guess sorry, one more statement. Uh, the construction traffic. Um, you know, I heard that this will be a special permit. So the idea of the board kind of dictating how the construction traffic works is certainly something that could be on the table. Is that correct?

01:17:56,369	S1:
We can condition a special permit.

Yes. 01:17:58,430	S13:
Thank you.

01:18:03,199	S1:
Other people in the audience? Yes. Please. Come on up.

01:18:13,170	S13:
Hi. Dave Wynnum resident.

Um. 01:18:16,869	S19:
Some questions from my own education. And just in general, so does the Planning Board Approve this. Is it a done deal or is it still have to go through? Okay.

01:18:28,869	S1:
We don't even have an application.

01:18:30,170	S13:
Yet.

01:18:30,470	S19:
I just.

01:18:32,170	S13:
Do you want.

01:18:32,500	S1:
Me to tell you what the process.

01:18:33,670	S13:
Is?

01:18:33,899	S19:
No, I'm good with that. Oh, yes. Actually Catherine does so.

01:18:37,100	S1:
Yeah. Yeah. So the process is and we can't speak for the developer on this, but at some point, if they decide to go forward with this project, and I would presume they would have to have their water and sewer ducks in a row before they would want to come for a permit, because otherwise we will probably say, come back when you have water and sewer because you can't get a permit without it. Um, they would come in with a full set of plans that would show precise renderings and all the engineering drawings and the topography and everything they would need in order to satisfy the overlay district that they're coming in under, which is independent living overlay district. Our zoning bylaws are.

01:19:22,029	S19:
All the way.

01:19:22,630	S13:
Up.

01:19:23,770	S1:
On the town website. You can look at them and see what the requirements are. At that point we would if there are. Once their plans are completed enough to go to a public hearing, we would open a public hearing and take public comment. The board will evaluate the plans in detail, I promise you, and have our own comment on it. We will hear from all of the town committees and boards that have some footprint or some hands. On this, the Conservation Commission, the police, the fire department, whoever has hands on this will will give us our views and then we will deliberate and make a decision.

01:20:09,529	S19:
So it stays with the the planning board.

01:20:11,600	S9:
I think.

01:20:12,470	S1:
It does. Do you want to.

01:20:14,170	S9:
You just forgot one point. What their what they would file an application for the special permit. That's what starts this whole problem. Yeah, they would have to.

01:20:21,500	S1:
That's what I meant by.

Yeah. 01:20:23,229	S13:
Yeah.

01:20:23,430	S19:
So there's no there's no there's no zoning committee looking at this. It's all within.

01:20:29,100	S13:
That's us.

01:20:29,670	S19:
Your group? No. I'm sorry. Any other zoning bylaws or any other.

01:20:34,770	S1:
We. These are the.

01:20:35,729	S13:
Those guys.

01:20:36,670	S1:
Okay. And that's what they would come in under. There's a special overlay district for. It's called independent living overlay.

01:20:44,829	S19:
Well, thank you for your.

01:20:45,670	S13:
Work.

01:20:45,930	S19:
And your, your presentation to. I could tell a lot went through it. So as I'm understanding the gentleman's about the, uh, the height and the house on the hill because it is rather hilly. So if I'm understanding the garages are below ground, then there's four storeys on top of that.

01:21:06,229	S13:
Correct.

01:21:06,829	S19:
Okay. So that would make them bigger. It's just a request that would make them bigger than the than the dorms that are currently at Gordon College now. Right. Because there are only 2 or 3 three stories.

01:21:20,399	S8:
I don't want to. I believe they're three story, but I don't I don't.

01:21:25,869	S19:
Okay.

01:21:27,000	S13:
They're every day. Okay. After three.

01:21:29,930	S19:
Okay. So their story higher. Okay. Um, the second one is age restricted. So. What age is that? 50, 55, 55 plus.

01:21:38,430	S13:
Okay.

01:21:38,770	S19:
So does that mean children or no children?

01:21:42,729	S8:
There's there's no specific restriction on children.

01:21:46,029	S13:
Okay.

01:21:46,369	S8:
But, um, again, as mentioned in the presentation, we built a number of these age restricted. And while we can't say zero with confidence that there would be zero children. We typically find very few. And as part of the fiscal impact analysis that we've done and that we will provide as part of the application. Um, what would go in that would be demonstrating those examples as far as we have 7 or 8 communities where we will have the data that goes along with it. As far as how many school children are associated with a similar development.

01:22:20,670	S19:
So we need to decide because every year. Right. This is a three year rolling average of student enrollment in Hamilton and Wenham. So we would need to decide how many additional students are coming then offset and how much our cost is going to go up every year. Is that correct?

01:22:39,930	S8:
That that would be accounted for in that fiscal impact study?

01:22:45,270	S19:
Every year, though, we would be adding more children.

01:22:48,300	S8:
It would. Well the the it would be it would be factored out as far as, as the bill as the development gets built out, how the the different schools and different age groups would be impacted by potential new students.

01:23:02,569	S13:
Okay.

01:23:04,029	S19:
So if I'm looking at 350 units, 1.25 kids per unit, I mean, what number do you use? I know you have parking space numbers.

01:23:13,699	S13:
I'm just trying to.

01:23:14,529	S8:
So we've referenced a couple of different things to be clear, relative to, um, occupancy and parking spaces. So Mark had mentioned 1.5. That was a. Number of occupants per unit. And we referenced 1.8, which is a rough number of parking spaces per unit. Again, our expectation for this would be very low as far as the number of school kids where we certainly wouldn't say zero because there there may be instances where there is that situation, but the fiscal impact analysis will provide data and analysis that shows it'll be a very low number, but it will factor it out for a number that makes sense.

01:24:01,130	S19:
Okay. Um, so I would.

01:24:02,869	S13:
Just.

01:24:03,329	S8:
And again just to these are one and two bedroom units too. So the expectation for a lot of kids and it's a 55 plus is is low.

01:24:12,529	S19:
I hate. I am close to that with children, so I just. I'm just just aware. So. And then.

01:24:19,770	S13:
Um.

01:24:20,829	S19:
Not that there's anything wrong with that. Right. So again, thank you for your work. But just so and then from a population standpoint, you're looking roughly 475 additional members of our community, give or take.

01:24:35,500	S8:
Is that that's a fair number. Yeah okay.

01:24:38,569	S19:
All right. So thank you for the time answering my questions.

01:24:43,529	S13:
Thank you. Can I come back?

01:24:45,500	S1:
Oh, I'm sorry, Mr.

Woodland. 01:24:47,130	S12:
I have a question on your estimated price, because that's a very attractive price. That's the market. If you want to know about it, that seniors need to leave their big house to free up the big house for the family and stay in their community. When you came up with that number, is that your best case or worst case? Because now we're talking about complex sewer systems, potential, other kinds of setbacks. So when you figured out your approximate number that you gave us. I have this funny feeling that as we put more and more, once you explore more fully our zoning codes and explore more fully the topology of the land, will the prices keep going up other than inflation?

01:25:28,970	S8:
No, no. And I can assure you that we have been doing our due diligence. We have first met with Margaret and other members of the town probably a year and a half ago, and since then we've been doing a lot of due diligence on our and for that exact reason to understand exactly what it would, what we would have to undertake for this development and that would take into that does take into account the associated infrastructure that we've talked about here tonight.

01:25:57,029	S12:
It would be a sad situation if after two years, you build the first building, it's up there and the units are starting at $800,000. And you know.

01:26:06,270	S8:
I understand the concern. But again, you know, the demographic that you mentioned when you started, that's exactly what we envisioned for this project as well. And, you know, it's um, you know, that those prices are going to be, you know, we can't out price ourselves either. So as part of our due diligence, we want to make sure that we can do this project and accommodate the demographic that we are. Um, you.

01:26:33,430	S13:
Know.

01:26:33,869	S12:
My follow up question is on your the project that you just did in North Redding or in Andover. Uh, do you have sale prices that you could share on those units so that will know? You say they're comparable. They're comparable towns. You brought them up for us as comparable.

01:26:48,829	S7:
Those are great questions. So we've built these mid-rise buildings in many different communities and we'll say the last ten years. So communities like Westwood, communities like Andover, communities like Sudbury, Woburn, North Redding, Grafton, Westborough. Um, probably missing a few. And so we have, uh, we have comps. We have comps of the of, of the, of the prices in this area. And we also have comps and prices of what we've sold these units for in other communities in eastern mass.

01:27:30,170	S12:
Can you share some of that with us tonight?

01:27:31,569	S7:
And it's I can't share it with you tonight. But I can tell you it's not $800,000. Okay. So I can't I can't tell you what the market will be three, 4 or 5 years from now. Six, seven. Well, if it's 2 or 3 years before we even start. Right. So you're talking, but. Right, right now, um, the numbers that we're using, we feel are, are reasonable and, um, and really reasonable estimates of what, you know, this type of product that this location can achieve.

01:28:05,329	S13:
Thank you. Thank you.

01:28:08,829	S1:
Can I ask a follow up question? Just because I just have been sitting here looking at the overlay district. The overlay district actually allows 20% of the occupied units to be, um, occupied by somebody who isn't 55 and over. Did you calculate that? Was that part of your calculation in figuring out the school numbers.

01:28:30,000	S8:
And is that an occupied or is that a primary owner?

01:28:33,699	S1:
No, that it's occupied.

01:28:35,930	S8:
So the 55 plus is one. The primary owner or owner has to be qualified for that 55 plus. That's a typically a no no.

01:28:46,229	S1:
I'm reading in my ordinance. My ordinance says at least 80% of the occupied units shall be occupied by at least one person who is age 55 or older, but that assumes 20% may not be 55 or older.

01:29:00,100	S13:
So I'd like.

01:29:00,670	S7:
I'd like to take.

01:29:01,300	S13:
A stab at that.

01:29:02,100	S1:
I just wonder what number. When you were putting the numbers together, did you take that into account? Can I pull numbers?

01:29:09,470	S7:
Can I answer that? So please. That language actually mirrors exactly the the Hopa act, the Federal Act, housing for Older Persons Act, and the housing for housing for Older Persons Act is the only federal law which allows discrimination in housing, which allows you to have these age restricted type of developments and that 80 so that 80% is the Hope act. But we have no intentions of of doing 80%. You know, our, our age restricted communities are our senior housing communities requires one occupant in every household to be age 55 or older. What the 80% does, it allows an emergency condition where there's a there's an emergency or there's an event and that household becomes non-compliant. And then you. And then you have like a two year window to, to correct that and, and become back in compliance. But as a condition of the special permit, I will tell you that we would be okay with one occupant in every household being age 55 years or older, and we have no interest in the 80% and the homeowners that move into this community, they love senior housing and being with people of like age and like mindset. Um, and they don't want children or younger folks in those types of communities. So that would actually be a problem for our types of communities.

01:30:46,130	S7:
I hope that answered your question.

01:30:49,630	S13:
You had a question here.

01:30:51,100	S1:
Yeah.

01:30:51,630	S13:
Yeah.

01:30:56,670	S20:
Sarah Prescott um, I appreciate the traffic question. I live on Hull Street. Uh, we're right near Gordon College. We go past the college every day. Came here tonight. The students are very young. It's amazing. Nobody's been hit already. 300 units right down the street is a lot of traffic for this area. And as, um, having lived here 30 years now, raised kids. Um, this town, what makes this town so lovely is the wide diversity of people and the open space. And, um, well, it would be great that, um, the trucks didn't come through town. They're going to be going right down Hall Street, Grapevine Road. That leads to road conditions. The truck drivers. Um, personally, I don't see a lot of police presence down on our end of town enough as it is. Um, so it's a real concern for something so large to be going in to this lovely section. And I appreciate all the work that the town does to give us an opportunity to speak and to be heard, and the thought that you put into it.

01:32:26,829	S13:
Thank you. Thank you.

01:32:28,470	S1:
Does anyone else want to speak? Please.

01:32:38,100	S16:
Get Ted Batchelor a 50 grapevine. Um, my first impression when I looked at the, uh, architectural vision, um, look kind of like some of the things going up next to the Northeast Expressway going into the North Mystic River bridge. Um, will you offer like, different architectural concepts, like something that might be more becoming for our town?

01:33:11,630	S8:
That is a hard question for two people to answer here tonight, because architectural differences can vary. But we certainly from a facade and building material as far as stone and other types for the facade is certainly something that we can discuss. Um, again, architectural preferences are kind of, you know, individual. So it's hard to to say specifically what it would be that would you would be referring to, to adjust it.

01:33:43,270	S16:
To something more in nature. More in with the, you know, the looks of our town As opposed to like a flat roof and, you know, something that looks more urban.

01:33:58,529	S8:
So it's certainly something that we will walk through in more detail as far as the flat roof element of it. I will just say that really, that is a design element brought on through the. The all electric building, that the flat roof is what allows us to accommodate the mechanical equipment for that um, for to make it an electric building. So it's a balance there between some style and, you know, uh, reducing the reliance on fossil fuels.

01:34:29,329	S16:
Yeah. But you could build into a pitched roof like certain flat spots to take care of the utilities.

01:34:38,899	S8:
There are certainly different treatments that we can look at. Um, as far as, you know, the parapet style and whatnot to, to make adjustments to.

01:34:46,069	S16:
Yeah, I know, I'm just looking at, you know, being able to see, you know, two or 3 or 4 different alternatives instead of just one. Thank you.

01:34:54,800	S13:
Thank you.

01:34:55,729	S1:
I know that there are folks on the zoom also who have questions. Is there anyone else in the room before we go to the zoom call, folks? Yes, please.

01:35:10,029	S18:
Again, Mike Novak. Madam chair, I just wanted to clarify the question you were asking about that piece of the regulation you read, but the 80%. Yeah. Could you read that again?

01:35:19,430	S13:
Sure.

01:35:20,529	S1:
It says, um.

01:35:26,029	S1:
Age restriction. The ILF shall be subject to an age restriction as follows. 80% of the occupied units shall be occupied by at least one person who is age 55 or older, provided that in the event of the death of the qualified occupant of a unit or involuntary transfer, a one year exemption. Da da da da da. But the point is simply that it's an 80% figure and it is from the the federal law.

01:35:52,529	S18:
So just for clarification, this is I know we're very early and everything's on asterisks. Everything I'm saying with that, um, does that mean 20% of the units do not have to be 55 plus?

01:36:03,770	S1:
That's what it says here.

01:36:05,100	S18:
So in theory, just as a the 2 million number is nice, but the 2 million numbers sounded like there wasn't a big chunk taken account for school school age. And as we all know, school our school budget is a very big piece of what we do here. So if 20% of these units could potentially give us children into the the school system, and that's not accounted for in the in the financial statement.

01:36:30,300	S1:
Well, that's why I was asking about.

01:36:32,029	S13:
I didn't.

01:36:32,729	S1:
School age children number was accounted for because of course, even if every unit were occupied by one person 55 or older, you could still imagine a grandchild living.

01:36:41,329	S13:
There.

01:36:41,729	S18:
Absolutely. And that's what I, I was just trying to clarify your question versus the answer. I got lost, I wasn't sure where. Where we landed.

01:36:48,800	S1:
That the answer was really an answer was it was more a statement of intention not to use these terms.

01:36:55,770	S18:
Fine. All right. So I'll leave that to you guys to to nail down later. I just wanted to clarify that in my own in my own mind.

01:37:01,630	S1:
Totally appreciate.

01:37:02,569	S13:
The can I can I.

01:37:03,970	S9:
Chime in on that? Sorry.

01:37:05,100	S13:
Please ask. So the the.

01:37:06,630	S9:
Language in the overlay district is taken from the ordinance, which is a minimum requirement, right? What I heard from the presenters was their intention is that 100% of the units are going to be 55 plus. I heard that one as well.

01:37:20,229	S18:
Okay. But I just I guess the last piece of that is and I know you'll figure this all out, but how is that enforced? Well, that that's hard. That can be a rhetorical. We don't have to.

01:37:28,170	S9:
That would be part of the permit application process.

01:37:30,569	S18:
So that's that's the kind of the I felt like the missing bridge of where we were in that in that case. Yeah. Thank you.

01:37:38,130	S1:
Margaret, we have people on zoom who have questions. Can you open that? I can't see that just for just so people know. I don't know who has their hand raised and who doesn't. So, um, Tom Starr.

01:37:51,829	S3:
I actually in it, but.

01:37:53,869	S1:
Can you tell the order?

01:37:55,300	S3:
Yes, I have some questions in the chat. Also, I want to read.

01:37:59,869	S1:
Questions in the chat. Okay. Should we go to people with our hands up and then questions in the chat. Is that how we should handle this. All right I, I see Amy and Tom Starr both have hands up. I wonder if you would like to decide among you who's going first?

01:38:17,229	S6:
I'll go first. So this is Amy Star. I live at 41 Pleasant Street, and, um, I wanted to thank you all for opening this up to the community and doing the presentation and getting your feedback. It's really great. Um, I just wanted to say somebody alluded to the numbers, and I just wanted to point out that, you know, uh, we have, according to the government, to the Massachusetts state government, we have just a little over 1300 housing units right now in Wenham. And so this is going to be a stunning increase in housing units. It's going to fundamentally change our time. I'm just going to make some observations that are not really questions. Um, so I mean, it's going to change kind of the voting blocks of demographics. It's going to be different. We're going to have proportionately way fewer families with younger kids. So it's just something to think about. And that's something that in the bigger communities where these developments happen, like Andover and North Redding, they're not going to have that same impact. You know, we're an eight square mile historic town with a relatively tiny population, and this is going to be a very big impact on us. Um, secondly, I want to observe that the trails there are completely a treasure. I would encourage you all to go there. Our Girl Scout troops hike there with the pond going around. It's it connects back to tobacco. It is a treasure. It is pristine. It's gorgeous, If you imagine this map we're all looking at without this housing project there you can see just how beautiful it is. It's isolated. It's amazing, um, that, you know, just putting this housing development in the middle of it is going to, I mean, let's be honest, destroy the trails. It's not going to be, you know, we're going to be able to see the housing from all of the trails and the portion of the lake treasure, that is when homes is, is going to be sacrificed. So it's something to think about. Um, and third is the water. We're talking about Salem's water and Beverly's water like it is. And like outside water. That's when I'm lake. The well, there is our groundwater. This is all our water. This is Wenham water. So no matter where it comes from, we don't have a separation there. And if there aren't going to be sewers, and if we're going to have that much waste going into this waterway with this kind of wetlands, which I mean, the wetlands with, with climate change are only going to become more pervasive, not less. Um, you know, this is all our water. And so that's that's my observation.

01:41:05,100	S1:
Thank you. Tom Steyer.

01:41:09,000	S21:
Yeah. I just wanted to speak. Um, can you close your your mic? Sorry. Sorry.

Okay. 01:41:16,569	S1:
I think you might want to mute. If you're not speaking, please online.

01:41:21,199	S13:
And.

01:41:21,729	S21:
Mute and shut it off completely.

01:41:28,770	S22:
I'm just going to leave.

01:41:34,369	S23:
The meeting.

Okay. 01:41:35,270	S13:
Sorry.

01:41:35,529	S21:
All right.

01:41:35,800	S13:
Well, sorry.

01:41:36,529	S21:
Sorry about that technical issue. So yeah, I mean, I'm just struck by the massive density of this truly urban development, you know? I mean, four storey apartment blocks in a small area. It seems completely out of character, as Ted Batchelor was saying, you know. So I was wondering if the developers, you know, gave any thought to, you know, just where you're building this, you know, as opposed to just doing the Pulte, you know, typical kind of Pulte development that works maybe in other places and, you know, and siting it here as opposed to, you know, perhaps being a little more sensitive to, um, the landscape.

01:42:20,000	S21:
So I don't know if you want to respond or should I just go on?

01:42:24,829	S1:
Uh, I would ask the developer.

01:42:27,069	S8:
I'm not sure I understand the exact question.

01:42:30,130	S1:
Is the density.

01:42:31,569	S13:
To be.

01:42:31,930	S1:
Like, more than four units an acre?

01:42:34,100	S24:
And, you know, the meeting.

01:42:35,800	S8:
We we felt that the the density and in the location in this section of town, um, specifically um, was was a good fit in this location. Um, and, you know, this is what, um, it fits underneath the zoning and, and we found that it was a good spot within the community to accommodate this level of housing for the town.

01:43:02,630	S21:
Can you elaborate?

01:43:03,869	S15:
Yeah.

01:43:07,569	S8:
I guess I'm not sure exactly what specifically you're looking for.

01:43:12,529	S21:
Well, I don't know. I mean, it just doesn't, you know, this development, we don't have any apartment buildings in the town.

01:43:19,369	S8:
Well, so.

01:43:20,329	S13:
These these are these.

01:43:22,130	S8:
Are not these are condos.

01:43:25,029	S21:
And that's a form of ownership. That's not a building.

01:43:28,670	S1:
We we actually do have some apartment buildings in town. But putting that aside, I think the question is why this specific area for this density?

01:43:40,869	S8:
And again, from the perspective of the town in general, we felt that this location was good as far as the access to 128 the the buffering of the property that would be accommodating the building specifically is set well, back off of the roadway. So, you know, as far as the location and abutting neighbors, there are very few. And so we felt that this location in particular was a good opportunity to address some of the items and goals that have come up in that master planning process as far as addressing specific housing types and needs that are currently not available in one of them.

01:44:27,369	S21:
Right. But I mean, did you consider, you know, fewer units or fewer buildings or less height or, you know, I think it is setback. But I think that because it's up on a hill and four storey construction is probably going to be visible from quite some distance.

01:44:44,399	S15:
Yeah.

01:44:46,770	S8:
I absolutely agree that there will be view lines of these buildings from locations, you know, along grapevine or at the college.

01:44:58,869	S13:
No, I mean.

01:45:00,600	S1:
Okay, I think, I think that, um, unless you have do you have another question, Tom?

01:45:07,600	S21:
Well, um, I was concerned about the negative impact that, you know, 10% affordable would have on our affordable percentage right now. So, you know, would you consider, you know, a higher percentage than than the minimum of affordable units?

01:45:31,000	S8:
If that's a question to me, it's a conversation that, you know, during once you know, the permit is is submitted, the application is submitted that if the board would like to have that conversation with us and bring that up as a potential element of the special permit, we'd be happy to have that discussion.

01:45:49,569	S1:
I would just note that our our senior housing overlay has a 15% requirement. And I also you describe the application you are thinking of submitting as coming in under the Independent Living Overlay district. And I wonder if you wanted to talk about the reasoning there for choosing the independent living overlay district rather than the senior housing overlay district?

01:46:14,630	S8:
We felt that that independent living overlay district fit pretty well with the concept that we are proposing to submit under.

01:46:25,369	S1:
Is that because it's fewer affordable units or is there some other reason or that you can expect?

01:46:30,329	S8:
It certainly wasn't a choice specific to the fewer affordable units. Um, I honestly, I don't recall the specific reasoning behind the choice that we made between those two. I know that we did look at both of those, but I don't recall specifically the reason that we chose the independent living or that we're considering the independent living overlay district. Right? We haven't actually submitted a permit application yet. So, um, but, you know, based on our initial discussion, that's what we were considering.

01:47:02,199	S9:
So I would just note that the senior overlay district also has a local preference, um, component to it, which is I would offer an attractive feature for the town.

01:47:13,670	S1:
Particularly given your statements about the master plan, because I do think that that is the element that people are concerned about.

01:47:22,529	S13:
Most certainly.

01:47:23,569	S8:
No, that makes sense.

01:47:27,170	S21:
So. So I just have one other thing. And, you know, I hope you think that this is mean spirited or not. But, you know, I did check customer satisfaction on Pulte Homes of New England and the the better better Business Bureau sites, customer reviews with a very, very low, uh, satisfactory score, as you know, score of satisfaction, basically one out of five. And I don't know if you want to address, um, why that might be or, um, you know.

01:48:01,470	S21:
Any comment you can make on that?

01:48:04,470	S7:
So I'd like to answer that. Um, so I'm actually not aware of the score that you're referring to. Uh, but I'd be happy to look into that score and, uh, and provide more contacts at a later date. Um, but I can tell you that we have Thousands of existing homeowners who complete surveys for us routinely. They complete surveys for us when they move in. They complete surveys for us one month after they move in. They complete surveys for us one year after they move in, three years after they move in, and we take those surveys very seriously. It's a huge focus of our company as well as many companies. I'm sure we all get many surveys from every company we do business with today, but we take customer service very seriously. We have an entire staff dedicated to customer service for each of our projects. So if there's some negative comments on online, I don't I don't doubt that. But we have thousands and thousands of homeowners. And you know, if there's a few handful of people that you know, are online, publicly, you know, we I, you know, I don't know what to say about that.

01:49:15,569	S21:
Yeah. I mean, that's why I was looking specifically at the Better Business Bureau because I felt that was, you know, Pretty legitimate.

01:49:23,130	S13:
Yeah.

Yeah. 01:49:24,000	S7:
I'll look at that rating. That doesn't. That doesn't sound right to me. So I'm sure there's an explanation.

01:49:29,170	S13:
Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

01:49:31,630	S1:
Is there anyone else online who has a question or wants to make a statement? And again, this is just the beginning of a process. And it actually hasn't even begun yet because we don't have an application yet. So, um, we're really, really happy that people are here and are expressing their views. Um, it will help a lot because this is a transformative kind of thing. We're talking about that a point the person made on the zoom about the percentage of additional housing units as well taken.

01:50:04,699	S3:
So yeah, and I have a few chat questions.

01:50:08,930	S1:
You have chat questions. We're going to do chat questioning.

01:50:11,529	S13:
Can I just.

01:50:12,000	S7:
Make one statement before we move.

01:50:13,670	S13:
On to that.

01:50:14,100	S1:
If you use the microphone.

01:50:15,300	S13:
Yeah I just wanted to.

01:50:16,670	S7:
Make one statement before we move on because I know I know this is a lot of units. I know this is a lot of units for Wenham and Essex described very eloquently why we think this location is, um, appropriate for, for the project that we're proposing. But it's, it's change and it's different. And we understand we understand that, um, we know it's different than what's there today. It's today it's pristine, beautiful, uh, undisturbed woods. And there's there is a beautiful, pristine trail network that goes around the area and the I just want to, you know, I just want to mention that the, the owner, the landowner has made a decision that he, he would like to sell the property and, and capitalize it and, and to have it developed. And, you know, we think that our proposal, we're really excited that our proposal meets a lot of the, the the needs and desires of the town based on the master plan, as opposed to if it's not us and if it's not this type of multifamily housing, it could be something else. It could be a single family development full of large single family homes on large lots, just like everywhere else in town. And and so, so the woods are not going to remain or may not there. There is a development to be had there. And we really are excited about our proposal, and we look forward to working with the town through all these, you know, these concerns and these comments that we've received tonight and will continue to receive. But I try to just ask to not compare the development to nothing. Please try to compare the development versus a different type of development that's allowed thereby. Right. So I hope that helps. Thank you, Mr.

Anderson. 01:52:14,670	S4:
Yes. So. this isn't necessarily in response to that, but I think it's it's adjacent to that. As somebody who's worked on the master Planning Advisory Committee for some time, and now we sit at the precipice of a master plan. Um, in my mind, every application that comes before certainly this board. But any committee in this town should be evaluated in part through the master plan. The master plan has been an immense process, with significant public input to deliver a guiding vision for this town going forward. Um, and if you haven't read it, read it because it is what this town is going to be. It's the charge for this town, for all of the the boards and committees, the residents, everyone who comes before the boards, the developers and whatnot. Now there are five core themes in there.

01:53:26,369	S4:
This project touches upon one of them, or maybe two of them, but I don't think it can. I don't know that I've heard enough tonight to know that it's completely been that this project has been designed reflecting the five core themes of the master plan. One of the core themes is about sustainability and preserving natural resources. Um, and yes, there is one that talks about when and for all ages, but that includes things like intergenerational, um, interactions. I don't know that this features much. Interactions. This is a major development, exponentially larger than anything this town has ever known. That kind of sits onto its own, and there's no adjacent access or resources for seniors to the community or for intergenerational activities. That's just one example. I think I would encourage anybody, whether it's Pulte or any other developer that comes to us, whether it's a 350 unit development or splitting a lot into two parcels. How does this fit within the master plan? Because for four years I sat on this board, we didn't have a master plan, but now we actually are almost we have one. And it says quite clearly where this town is trying to go. I know I'm getting a little long winded, but I'll offer one more thing in the master plan. I'm glad you put up the land map. There's a lot of thought that went into that, including identifying strategic parcels where you can have mixed conservation and development opportunities. We don't have a lot in this town. This is a major play, not just on a major parcel, but for this entire town. There is limits to what this town can do. We are 55% wetlands. Um, there's only so much traffic a community can have. There's only so much water a town can have. There's only so much electricity. This is a major play. Yes, it is high density housing, but it is not a mixed use development. And it's certainly not a commercial development. It's a high density development that just needs to be considered more fully. But we as a town and really the residents need to consider is this how we want to allocate the percentage of resources that this town can accommodate with this much more traffic, this much more water, this much more electricity. We cannot any longer evaluate a single development in a vacuum. It has to consider, if we did this, what happens to the balance of the Gordon property? What what what how does that change the options for development for the rest of that parcel, which is a strategic development, as well as a Lahey medical office building going to go in there? That makes sense. But what about other options? What kinds of things could go in there? So I just think there's a lot more that I would encourage everyone in this town, as you look at this, to think about how does this fit within the master plan, if you haven't yet participated in that process, it's not too late. There's a draft online, read some comment, read it, provide some comments, participate because we're near the end, but not at the end. So dive in.

01:57:06,229	S13:
Thank you.

01:57:06,869	S1:
Thank you. I would also just like to say that it isn't as simple as well. It could be that instead of this, there's a lot that has to go into us evaluating, adding 350 units of housing to the community of this size. And I know you appreciate that.

01:57:26,329	S1:
Chat.

01:57:27,300	S3:
Yes. Yeah. Thank you.

01:57:29,270	S1:
You read them into the so we can all hear them.

01:57:31,930	S3:
Yes. Yep. Um, I can actually put them up on the screen for.

01:57:37,000	S1:
I don't know if people on TV can see that. Can they.

01:57:39,529	S3:
Know? Yeah, I think they can. The people online can. Um, so Agnes Agnes's iPhone has asked if we can provide contact to the presenters. Um, provide the presenters contact. I said I could put that online, if that's okay.

01:57:54,329	S13:
That's fine.

01:57:54,829	S8:
Yeah, I can use my. Margaret, you have my contact.

01:57:57,069	S13:
So.

01:57:58,100	S3:
Um, Michelle Bailey asked, would the Board of Health or Hong Kong have a part in the approval? And I did respond to that by saying that they would definitely be part of it. Board of health would be part of the septic approval, but if it is over a certain size, DEP would oversee the design. But our DEP.

01:58:13,229	S1:
Is a state office just.

01:58:14,430	S3:
So people department environmental.

01:58:15,869	S8:
And I just also want to reiterate on that. Sorry Mike. Real quick and also to kind of address what Miss Prescott had mentioned earlier and that again, this is really early on in the process. And there will be numerous, many, many other opportunities to interact, to talk, to ask questions, to to pick at this and to look at this and, and, and, you know, investigate further. So in no way, shape or form is what we're presenting tonight. Um, you know, an end game and this this is just the very beginning. There will be significant other opportunities to ask detailed questions about every element of this.

01:58:57,100	S1:
Um, next question is.

01:58:59,270	S3:
Next question is about age restrictions. What remedies does the town have if the community is not in compliance with those restrictions?

01:59:09,000	S1:
I don't know the answer to that. I would think that would be a question for town council.

01:59:14,470	S3:
Yeah, I believe the zoning enforcement officer would be involved if it was a violation of their special permit.

01:59:22,729	S9:
That sounds.

01:59:23,229	S13:
Right.

01:59:25,630	S3:
Um, and al DeGroot asks says senior and affordable housing in the isolation of this property does not make sense from a practical sense for access to town services, commuter rail, library, groceries, library, etc. this, along with the risk of damage to the tobacco watershed area, are of grave concern for future water needs.

01:59:49,899	S1:
It's more a statement than a question. Is there? Is there? Are there other chat messages?

01:59:55,670	S3:
Nope. That's all I've gotten and no one else has their hand up that I can see right now, man.

02:00:04,270	S1:
Is there anyone else who has a question or wants to make a statement? Who's here? And I appreciate everyone's patience as we go through this process. Um, if not, we will say thank you to for you your willingness to come in and be open to hearing what people have to say even before you have submitted an application. Oftentimes, we don't get that from the development community. So we do appreciate that.

02:00:31,430	S8:
You know, and thank you. And we appreciate the opportunity. You know, this the interaction with town members has already informed the design and will continue to and that's the goal of having this and these discussions beforehand. So thank you for the opportunity.

02:00:47,399	S13:
Thank you.

02:00:50,470	S1:
Okay.

02:00:52,630	S25:
Thank you.

02:00:54,000	S1:
So once again it's 9:00 and we have the MBTA meta communities discussion.

02:00:59,630	S5:
Let's not.

02:01:00,100	S13:
Do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Dan, we have a crowded room.

02:01:04,699	S1:
Need to do.

02:01:05,329	S13:
It, do it.

02:01:06,770	S1:
Do.

02:01:07,170	S13:
It.

02:01:07,430	S1:
Um, so the conversation. Just so if people are in the room and want to remain in the room, has to do with a zoning overlay district that we are required by law to put in place. It's called it's under the MBTA Communities Act. And it requires, um, how shall I characterize it? High density housing within a half a mile radius of MBTA Commuter Rail stations. There's a complicated formula by which you have to figure out how many of those new units need to be or can be, must be right near the station. And how many can be scattered around in the rest of the town? Um, and we have been considering alternatives for how to do this zoning overlay zone. And so.

02:01:57,229	S13:
Let.

02:01:57,470	S9:
Me try to summarize the minimums.

02:01:59,130	S1:
I'm gonna turn it over to the the.

02:02:02,569	S9:
Okay. Bear with me because this is from memory, but the minimum requirement for when we have approximately 1400 housing units, um, we have to provide, by right, multifamily zoning for 360 units, 25% of those have to be within a half mile of the train station. So that's approximately 75 more, give or take. Um, we have to zone a total of, I think it's 24 and change acres in the town. 25% of that has to be within a half mile of the train station, which is again.

02:02:40,329	S13:
About.

02:02:41,100	S9:
About 4.8 acres. So not all of the zoning has to be within the half mile radius of the train station. We can put the minimums within. The minimums have to be there, but Across the town. We have to have the totals that I just mentioned. So we have developed scenarios with the help of a consultant outside consultant that would comply with what the state regulations are. We have, I think, four different scenarios that we've considered.

02:03:11,069	S3:
Yeah, we have four that you can.

02:03:12,470	S13:
Um, one is um.

02:03:16,569	S9:
There's a housing authority site, which is I don't have the numbers in front of me. I'm going to say that's about 24 acres or so.

02:03:24,930	S3:
I'm sorry. I wasn't expecting you to do that.

02:03:26,899	S13:
That's okay.

02:03:27,270	S3:
Tonight.

02:03:28,069	S13:
Um. Well, it's.

02:03:29,770	S9:
Didn't we put that on the agenda?

02:03:31,270	S1:
It's on the agenda.

02:03:32,899	S9:
Um, there there is approximately 31 acres of Boulder Lane that we've looked at, which we had a previous feasibility study that said the highest and best use of that would be multi family housing, I think. Yes, yes. Okay. Um, there is a parcel of approximately six acres that we've called the larch and walnut parcel. I think that is located sort of behind.

02:03:59,829	S3:
Do you want me to find the.

02:04:01,270	S9:
If you can.

02:04:02,130	S1:
You can, I.

02:04:02,569	S13:
Can.

Yeah. 02:04:04,130	S9:
Which is behind the where CVS is located there. There are two, um, lots there that we've looked at. And one of the requirements is apparently we can't split lots, so we can't take half a lot here and half a lot there. Um, so and I think the other is just a combination of those different parcels. Um, whether we wanted to do, say, the large walnut with the Housing authority site, the housing authority side alone, the large walnut with the Boulder site, um, so one of the keys is we need to have a certain amount of area within the half mile radius. So we've had a public forum, I think it was in November. We had pretty good turnout.

02:04:48,130	S4:
And it can't be age restricted.

02:04:50,029	S13:
It can't be cannot.

02:04:51,029	S9:
Be age restricted, however we can require. Is it 10% or 15% minimum affordable housing 1,010%?

02:05:00,069	S3:
MTA will.

02:05:00,630	S13:
Allow.

02:05:00,899	S9:
MTA so there will be an affordable housing requirement. Thank you for the age restricted.

02:05:05,300	S13:
So it.

02:05:05,699	S4:
Can be multi.

02:05:06,470	S13:
Use a.

02:05:07,630	S1:
Multi. Yeah could.

02:05:08,630	S13:
Be multi.

02:05:09,869	S4:
Multi.

02:05:10,770	S13:
Multi-use. Yeah. Mixed use mixed.

02:05:13,270	S9:
Use.

02:05:13,699	S1:
Thank you. Commercial office and residential.

02:05:16,899	S9:
Okay.

02:05:17,170	S13:
So to retail. Well commercial.

02:05:21,069	S9:
So this is a continuing process. This we need to I think the consensus here is we are going to comply with the state mandate. Um because there was some question early in this process whether it was worth it complying or not.

02:05:36,569	S1:
Um, we've discovered it is.

02:05:39,000	S9:
Yes. But we haven't really had we haven't had a discussion about that. We haven't had a discussion about the two different or the four different, um, areas. Thank you.

Margaret. 02:05:49,470	S3:
So that's.

02:05:50,729	S13:
The that's.

02:05:52,229	S1:
The radius of course is in Hamilton. So they are having the same dialogue as we are at this time.

02:05:57,000	S3:
Okay. Let me go to the.

02:05:58,930	S9:
Let's go to the scenarios.

02:06:01,170	S13:
Yeah.

02:06:01,800	S26:
Yeah.

Hamilton. 02:06:03,529	S1:
Can you please go to the mic? Sorry.

02:06:06,000	S4:
And just identify.

02:06:06,930	S13:
Yourself. My name is Laurie Reynolds.

02:06:08,529	S27:
Only been in the town seven years, and I call it my hallmark town. That's. We all joke about it, and that's why we moved out here. We came from Wakefield. I grew up in the city and love living out here. Love the screen. The neighbors just moved in. They came from Cambridge, just where I did. And they love living out here, you know, for that hallmark feel. And I'm not against progress at all, but I think a three like everybody is saying 350. That's a big number. Like if they came in probably maybe 150.

02:06:41,770	S1:
And so you're back on the previous.

02:06:43,800	S27:
Yeah. That too like two things that I think if they adjusted their numbers a little bit, it would be a little bit more easy to swallow then, because I live down right by Gordon College. I am a stone's throw from Gordon's College. We get our water from Beverly because we're right near the farms. So and I will tell you, they're having their own issues with their water to their it's horrible. So that's probably why they're telling them no. Um, that being said, um, I do think we need more in the town to relieve the tax situation. Everybody's also complaining about, um, what that is, is and I'm all for senior housing. I think the seniors have paid their dues and they should be able to stay living here, um, affordably. And so, like you said, sell their houses and welcome the families. And so I think no one's against the change. I just think that that was a big number to put out there for Pulte. Because if you look at the other communities, that would have been the third largest, largest community. I mean, they went into Concord with only 84 units. That's a small town like this town. I mean, Andover is a bigger town, you know, so they need to compare it a little bit better to something.

02:08:04,430	S1:
I appreciate your comment. I think we have to go. If you have something to say about MBTA at this point, please feel free.

02:08:11,770	S27:
Yeah, know the MBTA. I think we need that too.

02:08:13,800	S13:
But yeah.

Okay. 02:08:15,399	S1:
Well, this is an attempt to to put I mean, I think that the purpose of the act was to try to put, you know, to cluster multifamily housing near train stations where folks to make it a little bit more feasible.

Right. 02:08:34,199	S13:
All right.

02:08:34,529	S1:
So livable.

02:08:35,399	S9:
Margaret has found the slide with the the purple area on the bottom right is Boulder Lane.

02:08:41,470	S1:
That's up by 128. It's a white thing is 128.

02:08:45,630	S9:
It's multiple parcels. The total, I think, is approximately 31 acres. The green on the map is the Housing Authority property right now, which is.

02:08:57,729	S3:
26.

02:08:58,369	S9:
26 acres. The blue is 100 large. And the the, um. What color is that? That's it. Orange. The orange is zero walnut. Together. Those are 6.3 acres combined. So we as a board haven't had a discussion about which which direction we think we should go. Um, and by that, I mean, do we want to pick a site? Do we want to concentrate all of the units within the half mile radius of the train station? Do we want to spread them out? Um, how do we want to do that if we want to do that. So I think that that's a conversation we should at least begin. Yeah. Um, and I don't know how you want to do this. If you want to go down the line, if you want to ask people's preferences, if you want.

02:09:53,569	S1:
Well, I think we could start by saying, do we think it should be concentrated in the area of the train station so we can go down the line? And do people have are people willing and ready to express their views on that tonight?

02:10:05,869	S15:
Yeah.

02:10:06,670	S1:
Mr.

woodland. 02:10:07,930	S12:
I think we should split it as much as possible so we don't create a density issue in one area. Remember, this is only we have to get the zoning on the books, so don't panic. Are you listening to this? It then has to be out there as some developer has to say. I can make that work. They have to get all the water and sewer, electrical, all that stuff.

02:10:27,930	S1:
Just like you just.

02:10:28,630	S12:
Heard. Just like you just heard. So this is just. We're just creating the district. And my think my thought would be to split it fairly between those two parcels, between the 3 or 4 parcels, the downtown section, which could be nice housing for those who want a village experience and want the train, and then the boulder lane for people who are more car centric and want to get in and out of Wenham quickly.

02:10:52,100	S15:
So that would be.

02:10:53,430	S5:
Can I just say.

02:10:55,000	S1:
Mr. Clegg, I agree.

02:10:56,899	S15:
Use your.

02:10:57,829	S1:
Microphone.

02:10:58,329	S15:
Please. There you go.

02:10:59,729	S5:
I agree. I agree with Rick.

02:11:01,630	S1:
Okay. That's two. Mr.

Anderson. 02:11:05,130	S4:
Um, just one question about MBTA regulations. They mandate a density. What can we do on top of that in terms of how much we dictate, um, what? The design.

02:11:23,569	S9:
So the density is the minimum is 15 units per acre, right. Which has to be.

02:11:29,529	S1:
The only thing.

02:11:29,930	S9:
Which has to be an average across the whole project. It doesn't have to be in one.

02:11:33,300	S4:
But can we add things on top like. Yes, mixed use.

02:11:37,899	S9:
Can we.

02:11:38,800	S4:
Design.

02:11:39,270	S1:
Something that would prohibit that in this in the statute.

02:11:41,970	S4:
As long as there's the density is met.

02:11:44,369	S1:
The minimum requirement.

02:11:47,800	S3:
We can require site plan approval thereby. Right. The multifamily by right with certain densities. Then we can require site plan approval. And we can design parking.

02:11:59,899	S1:
And we can allow we can also allow commercial slash office.

02:12:06,670	S3:
We can allow.

02:12:07,770	S1:
Mixed use if we want.

02:12:08,930	S3:
To. I can do that now.

Yep. 02:12:10,100	S1:
Yeah. So which of you, um.

02:12:33,199	S4:
Are we just talking about? These two districts. Are we talking about more?

02:12:37,399	S3:
This was scenario three. This is what I think Rick was mentioning. This is the zero large lane and the other small lot. It does not include non village area. And but it does include Boulder Lane.

02:12:52,029	S4:
And I apologize I was absent for a meeting. So what's the story from Enon Village. What's their perspective on this.

02:12:59,500	S3:
We haven't met with them yet.

02:13:00,970	S15:
We haven't had that.

02:13:02,000	S3:
We're meeting next week.

02:13:03,000	S1:
We need to have that meeting.

02:13:04,069	S9:
So we're not going to.

02:13:06,029	S15:
This isn't this.

02:13:07,100	S9:
This is the beginning of.

02:13:08,770	S1:
The beginning of a conversation.

02:13:09,970	S12:
It's not where we are.

02:13:11,600	S4:
I mean.

02:13:15,369	S4:
I don't know how you develop Boulder Lane. I don't I don't know, I've never I understand the feasibility is high density or density housing, though I, I've always seen maps that appeared to show that it was would struggle to be developed. I understand this is just for the purposes of creating an overlay district. To me, what we're basically talking about as a town is housing in the center of town, and that's where this is going. Um, if I think that affordable housing site makes or non village makes the most sense because it potentially has two access, two points of access, one on larch and one on main, I guess, or maybe on walnut.

02:14:02,170	S3:
It you would. The only other access to that property is through the Crosby's Plaza, where the train station is, and they would have to gain that access through that property there if someone were to develop it that way, or there's no access onto Main Street, you have to cross the railroad tracks.

02:14:23,300	S1:
Because it's behind that truck and go.

02:14:24,899	S3:
Through this property here because this is non. Let me see if I can.

02:14:31,069	S1:
But the overlay.

02:14:31,899	S3:
District. Village hears the tracks and hears Main Street.

02:14:44,170	S15:
So if we're creating an overlay.

02:14:46,229	S1:
This is a stupid question, and I should have asked it years ago. If we're creating an overlay district, we don't have to identify the properties it's going to go on. Do we?

02:14:54,899	S15:
Um.

02:14:55,770	S3:
They they do. They call it an overlay. But yeah, they do want you to show you where they're calling it an overlay, because the underlying zoning still is in effect.

02:15:04,569	S1:
Because we have a property that's zoned commercial within that half.

02:15:08,699	S3:
We have a portion of this lot right here is zoned for business. Yeah. About half of that zoned for business. But you could still you could make that still the this overlay and but that business a lot a use would still be allowed right. Yeah. This is just saying it's we.

02:15:26,800	S1:
Haven't.

02:15:27,069	S3:
Got family here.

02:15:29,369	S1:
We haven't considered that lot.

02:15:31,470	S9:
That was not one of our scenarios because it is the only business district we have in town.

02:15:37,270	S1:
But if we were doing it mixed use.

Mhm. 02:15:42,100	S3:
That's a consideration.

02:15:43,470	S1:
That's a thought.

02:15:44,329	S9:
So one of the issues to keep in mind is the lot splitting. So if you designate one of these lots you are designating the entirety of the lot which means all of it would be subject to buy right. Multifamily. Right. Right right right. So if you use the housing authority lot, for example, um, and I should qualify this by saying we are going to have a meeting with the housing authority. Um, some of us are going to have a meeting with the housing authority, I think next week, Tuesday, Tuesday. Um, to explore this further. Um, but that is something to consider. So if you designate all 26 acres, you could very well end up with by right, 360 or more units. Um, I haven't done with the math.

Watts. 02:16:34,569	S4:
Um, but but how do we do it without district two?

02:16:38,829	S9:
What's district two?

02:16:40,299	S1:
The housing authority.

02:16:42,700	S9:
So I will I'll jump in and tell you what my preference is on this. Yes, I. And remember, this is a zoning exercise. This isn't a development exercise. We're not saying this is going to be built or this is going to be easier to build, or we should build this. But if you're doing this zoning, I would go with the walnut large parcel, which is 6.3 acres within the, um, half mile radius, which would allow for the development of up to 73, we could say 73 or 75 units to satisfy our minimum. And then I would zone the remainder of it on the Boulder Lane site, which would provide for the remaining potential for up to the 360.

So. 02:17:29,770	S5:
So that's. Where can I agree to.

02:17:31,530	S9:
Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm. Yeah. That's what I'm, that's what my preference would be.

02:17:35,969	S12:
We're not overloading the downtown district.

Right. 02:17:38,299	S9:
How you still putting 75 units.

02:17:41,399	S12:
But not 300.

02:17:42,770	S1:
And and I, I would agree with that and I would I would say that in both cases we should be writing this as a mixed use with a mixed use option. So in other words, you can in addition to because otherwise you just.

02:17:59,700	S9:
Yes, I think that's consistent with where the master plan is going exactly as well. Because if you put let's say you put 75 units down there and there are apartments or whatever, you you probably want to have first floor.

02:18:11,270	S1:
Commercial space.

02:18:12,329	S9:
That restaurants, shops.

02:18:14,329	S1:
Yes, it would be a tremendous.

02:18:16,100	S4:
College or whatever comes next.

02:18:19,000	S9:
So that's.

02:18:20,399	S1:
My microphone. Sorry about that.

02:18:23,500	S26:
I'm sorry.

02:18:25,370	S17:
Um, I may be repeating what you already know, but I was on the Housing authority when that was developed in 76 and 77. And you're aware of the buildings? Yes. From the buildings down to the houses for the disabilities, developmentally delayed folks. That's all leaching field.

02:18:47,829	S26:
Mhm.

02:18:49,200	S17:
So that is probably, um, three acres at least because we had a whole lot of problems with the leaching field back then. It had to be done over and over. And then you got the houses for the developmentally disabled. So in back I don't think you have. What did you say you had 26 acres.

02:19:08,870	S1:
Yeah. It's not really is what you're saying.

02:19:11,829	S17:
So just FYI.

02:19:13,899	S26:
Okay.

02:19:14,600	S1:
Thank you. Well, I think I think the consensus is to stay off that property. That's what I'm hearing.

02:19:19,399	S17:
Yeah. I just thought I'd bring that to your attention.

02:19:22,370	S26:
Yeah.

02:19:25,729	S1:
If you're gonna. If you're gonna bear with us until 930 at night, you get to speak.

02:19:30,370	S18:
Mike Novak. Just speaking as a resident. Yeah. Um, a couple of things that I heard that I just want to clear up. Inconsistency wise, maybe. And maybe I just missed surgery. The previous one. Just, uh, the Gordon College property that we were just talking about, I heard I heard comments about. It's isolated. There's no connectivity, there's no intergenerational, I think was the word. And then I just heard, well, we don't want 350 units in downtown, but isn't that what you just said? We said we don't. We want connectivity, but we don't want it downtown. Isn't that where that would go? No, I'm not saying 350 is the right number, but I'm hearing a lot of trying to limit it. And I think that's counterintuitive to what I was hearing. Some of the comments that were going towards the Pulte gentleman, in a way. No, I'm not pointing fingers. I'm just I'm hearing a little bit of a mixed message.

02:20:17,200	S4:
So from a master planning perspective.

02:20:20,670	S9:
Yeah. Can I.

02:20:21,200	S18:
Just. Yeah, I guess that's what I'm trying to pick at is.

02:20:23,829	S28:
Um. Go ahead.

02:20:25,469	S9:
So the the let me just point out one difference between this. So this is an exercise that we are mandated to go through by the state that we have to we have to create zoning.

02:20:36,770	S18:
Can I can I just I'm pretty familiar with it. So just fire away and I'll stop you if I don't.

02:20:41,370	S9:
So what what I'm trying to say here is once we create these districts, once we create this zoning, it's by right.

02:20:50,370	S18:
Understood.

02:20:50,829	S9:
Which means we lose control as a board. So they don't.

02:20:54,870	S18:
Necessarily agree with that, but go ahead.

02:20:56,629	S9:
Well, if somebody comes in and they're able once we create the BI right multifamily zoning. Right. Somebody comes in with a project and it's by right, then it's by right. If they don't need any.

02:21:11,670	S18:
You can subject to a site plan review. You can you can create your own triggers.

02:21:15,629	S9:
Okay. But but site plan review doesn't mean we can deny the project.

02:21:19,399	S18:
Understood.

02:21:19,969	S9:
But that's the difference with the special permit.

02:21:22,370	S18:
Well, the density is also going to be. I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt.

02:21:25,069	S9:
You saying the difference is when when somebody is seeking a special permit, we can deny a special permit if we don't think that we want to grant it for.

02:21:33,299	S18:
Valid.

02:21:33,870	S9:
Reasons. Right? By right is a different animal. So that's I just want to make that point.

02:21:39,129	S18:
No, I completely understand. Yeah I appreciate that point. I understand.

Yeah. 02:21:46,100	S4:
I guess my concern is and I still can't. So I understand it's a zoning exercise, but it's tough not to look at these numbers and consider what if. Right. They were actually developed. I, I can't even fathom what our town and Hamilton would look like if by right, these developments occurred at the numbers, if we had that many units on our side and that many units relatively on the Hamilton side in the half mile circle. On one on one a in Walnut. And I just can't even fathom what that would how we would survive that. I just.

02:22:29,799	S1:
Don't. It wouldn't maintain the character of the community.

02:22:32,399	S4:
Sure. No no, no. Well, I know I think you have to be stronger than that. I don't know how one could tolerate that level of traffic. I don't know how large or walnut or any of these things could tolerate it.

02:22:44,670	S18:
But you have to, as I understand your point. But I think you need to look at it from a different lens. The point of the MBTA overlay is to encourage public transportation. You're not adding that much traffic, guy.

02:22:56,399	S4:
I'm the guy who says that the bus shouldn't stop at the stop. It's run to Newburyport.

02:23:01,399	S18:
I agree 100%.

02:23:02,370	S4:
No reason why it doesn't go up one way. So, and I'm the guy that rides that train, and there's one between 7:00 and 930. And we're building a thousand zoning for 1000 residents on a train that runs every 2.5 hours. This is not a well conceived outlaw.

02:23:19,500	S9:
Hamilton's numbers are fortunately 700.

02:23:22,100	S4:
But we're trying.

02:23:22,770	S9:
The other.

02:23:23,729	S18:
Side.

02:23:24,299	S1:
The other piece of this that you guys didn't hear is that there's an exception in here in the statute for small communities or something like that, and we are under it. We are over it by like a thousand people.

Right. 02:23:37,100	S9:
If we had ten acres.

02:23:38,600	S1:
11, 11 acres or whatever it is we are, we are just beyond being able to take advantage of that exception. I understand even though we are a tiny town.

02:23:47,799	S12:
And it's also the cart of the horse, right? The MBTA, MTA communities, as David was saying, it's once every two hours and it's not that reliable and no one's using it now. So the MBTA also has to step up their volume as is possible.

02:24:02,399	S18:
And that's kind of the point, I think.

02:24:04,129	S1:
I think, I think I would say that the, the purpose of the law is to encourage development near the stations economic development and housing development. Really? I mean, although that's not a part of the statute. Um, in order to support the TI.

02:24:20,100	S18:
Yeah, exactly.

02:24:21,100	S1:
To put people. That's always been my.

02:24:23,100	S18:
Two other real quick points. Just when I know density is a concern, I understand that we do have some built in the things that keep density down. Obviously, a lot of supply and the ability leach field was just brought up. So that's there's already some checks in there too. And the other thing is density becomes an issue. When you overlay one contiguous parcel of a major size. Your overlay just has to be a contiguous area that allows that unit density. It doesn't have to be one lot. So if you overlay a bunch of small lots, you in a sense control the density in a way, but you still meet the overall. And I look at that as the idea of doing that, which would allow that small commercial piece to maybe be developed with units above on the smaller lots where you're talking minimal three, four, but the overall contiguous meets the 15 per acre. I get it, you you you overlay 26 acres. You do the math. I forget what you said. 300 odd, right? But if you overlay a contiguous part, a contiguous overlay that has 15 different parcels in it, no bigger than x, well, then your density is almost controlled by. But because your your setbacks are still in place, you don't change any of that. So you're building area is still regulated in a sense.

02:25:37,770	S4:
But I don't know if that's true. I mean, if you have A11 acre lot, they could still put 15 units on it. And I don't know.

02:25:48,329	S18:
It's a it's allowed. But but you're going to have setback restrictions. You're going to have septic restrictions like we have built in restrictions. So I don't think you'd ever get to it. Height restrictions. That's what it means. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm talking about. So I'm just trying to offer a different way of looking at it. Right. And some of the stuff that I've seen.

02:26:04,729	S12:
Looking at a different way. What's your end? What's the what's the Smaller.

02:26:09,629	S1:
Do you? Where would you put it?

02:26:11,430	S18:
Downtown. And I would want to stretch the.

02:26:13,229	S9:
Add one thing that was mentioned. So the, the 4.8 acres within the.

02:26:19,299	S18:
The half mile.

02:26:20,270	S9:
Yeah. It has to be contiguous.

02:26:22,069	S18:
Right. But it doesn't have to be one contiguous lot. No, the overlay is.

02:26:26,030	S9:
No, you're right. This is two lots. Yeah. We're looking at right here.

02:26:28,629	S18:
But you could overlay ten lots and still get the same thing. Is that correct?

02:26:31,500	S26:
But we don't.

02:26:32,229	S18:
Not in a vacuum. In a.

02:26:34,170	S9:
Vacuum. Yeah. Yeah, sure. In theory, if we had six one acre lots next to each other, we could do that. Yeah, we don't, but we don't.

02:26:40,370	S18:
Yeah. I haven't studied it. I'm just hearing and reacting.

02:26:42,799	S9:
I know, and I understand. We've been.

02:26:45,370	S18:
I know you've probably kicked this around.

02:26:47,000	S9:
For over a year.

02:26:47,700	S19:
We've had.

02:26:48,000	S12:
A consultant involved with this as well trying to look at it a different.

02:26:50,469	S18:
Way. Yes. And I missed the first one. I would have would have attended.

02:26:53,100	S9:
But so.

02:26:54,600	S12:
7 or.

02:26:55,000	S9:
8 we could do that in theory. Yeah. But in reality our choices are limited.

02:27:01,000	S5:
So we've had a conversation where I think one, two, three. Four of us agree on the same idea. Is that right?

02:27:09,930	S1:
I think that an attractive, well thought through mixed use development in the downtown area would be great. I think providing that all I started out, I came into this process thinking all of it needs to go downtown because that was the intention. But then the more I think about it, and the more I think about what that does to downtown and traffic and everything else, I think putting some on Boulder and some on the smaller parcels downtown.

02:27:40,799	S9:
If I'm.

02:27:41,200	S5:
Dan wanted to have a discussion.

02:27:43,700	S9:
To start.

02:27:44,370	S5:
It, to start.

02:27:45,129	S1:
It. So I think.

02:27:45,799	S5:
I think we've done it.

02:27:47,399	S26:
Right.

02:27:47,799	S5:
So I put.

02:27:49,569	S1:
The question here is.

02:27:51,000	S9:
Can I, can I.

02:27:51,600	S5:
Just somebody who just sat through a three hour select board meeting two days ago.

02:27:56,729	S9:
Let me just add one thing, maybe to your question. To your question. Just just to add one thing.

02:28:01,799	S26:
Don't start. I mean.

02:28:02,930	S9:
We are required to come up with something in order to meet compliance. Understood. It doesn't mean that in the future we can't zone other parcels or come up.

02:28:13,670	S18:
Oh yeah. Sure. It's always still on the table.

02:28:15,200	S1:
That doesn't mean any of it will actually get built.

02:28:17,430	S18:
And correct me if I'm wrong. Your timing. You have. We have till the end of the year.

02:28:21,829	S26:
We do, we do.

02:28:22,870	S9:
But we put this needs to go through town meeting.

02:28:25,629	S18:
Yes.

02:28:26,200	S1:
Which is why we've been talking.

02:28:27,170	S18:
About not a fall town meeting. Sure. That makes sense.

02:28:29,600	S5:
Yeah. All right.

02:28:30,100	S26:
Are we done?

02:28:30,670	S1:
I think we're going to call the question. Mr. Clay is getting antsy.

02:28:33,399	S26:
All right, that's Ian.

02:28:35,200	S1:
Call the question. It's 930, and we have minutes.

02:28:38,200	S3:
Could I.

02:28:38,469	S1:
Just ask?

02:28:39,229	S3:
Do you want to schedule another meeting specifically for MBTA? Or do you want to have it done?

02:28:45,629	S1:
Your March will not have time on the 29th. Is that your assessment?

02:28:49,370	S3:
I don't believe you will know.

02:28:51,100	S9:
So why don't we put it on for March?

02:28:53,430	S26:
Okay.

02:28:54,670	S9:
What's our March.

02:28:55,299	S1:
Date? What is March look like? Otherwise is it. Is it otherwise empty, or is it.

02:28:59,500	S3:
No, I'm not sure yet. Look what's coming up.

02:29:02,200	S4:
Warm Margaret's looking. Mr. Novak, I liked what just happened. There hasn't been a lot of people that have come into our meetings, or at least the ones I've attended and said like, hey, you could look at this a different way. We've had paid consultants on grants. We've had meetings like, that was awesome. Okay, but but if you can show the math on a different way to draw a district, that makes more sense to you, like, please. Like because. Yeah. Because I don't think I've never felt like we've like, fully run it to ground. We've relied on like the consultant and kind of what we've all thought about. But that doesn't mean we don't.

02:29:51,670	S1:
Spend a ton of time on.

02:29:52,700	S26:
It.

02:29:52,770	S1:
Yeah, that's at a public meeting.

02:29:54,399	S9:
That's the most feedback we've had outside of the forum that we had at Bücker, that that is seriously the most public engagement we've had on this topic, and we've been begging for tech people to participate.

02:30:05,000	S12:
Yeah, that was the most technical comment.

02:30:06,469	S26:
So.

02:30:06,569	S1:
Kudos.

02:30:07,000	S26:
To you. Well, actually, I did this for a living, so.

02:30:12,370	S4:
It doesn't have to be the end of your participation. I hope it wouldn't if you can. If you got more.

02:30:17,370	S1:
It will be a public hearing.

02:30:18,500	S26:
I was waiting for the date.

02:30:20,270	S1:
We don't have. Well, that won't be. The next date won't be the public hearing.

But. 02:30:25,170	S3:
Yeah, you're not ready. The conversation proposed the zoning.

02:30:28,469	S1:
No, no, not at all.

02:30:29,899	S9:
No, we.

02:30:30,270	S1:
Have an option.

02:30:31,299	S9:
We gotta pick an option, and then we have to.

02:30:33,000	S1:
I think we have a general consensus on an option unless we get.

02:30:36,100	S26:
Yeah, I think.

02:30:36,799	S9:
We.

02:30:36,899	S26:
Made progress.

02:30:38,299	S1:
We haven't seen.

02:30:39,030	S26:
We did. It would be the 14th.

02:30:42,270	S3:
Well, I'm wondering if, um. I don't know what else is going to be on the 14th, but if we could dedicate the meeting to MBTA, that would be helpful so that you have the time that you need. So you're not here.

02:30:55,500	S1:
I would appreciate that.

02:30:57,000	S3:
Yeah. So if we can say the 14th, if, if anything, if anything comes in, I'll let you know. But I don't have anything on the agenda yet for that. I don't have any projects. So. Okay. Okay. So March 14th.

02:31:12,500	S1:
Do we want to do minutes tonight or can we table.

02:31:15,399	S5:
I just saw one.

02:31:16,299	S1:
Until the 29th.

02:31:17,729	S5:
The word value was spelled wrong because there's like.

02:31:20,770	S1:
A couple of misspellings I found. Can we.

02:31:24,069	S26:
Can we can.

02:31:24,870	S1:
We table them till the 29th, please? As you point out, we've been here for almost three hours.

02:31:30,670	S26:
Okay.

02:31:31,170	S9:
I make a motion that we adjourn until February 29th.

02:31:36,729	S3:
I just wanted to say to table the minutes, then table. Yes. Both sides.

02:31:40,200	S26:
Okay. Sorry.

Yep. 02:31:41,200	S3:
Yep.

02:31:42,729	S9:
At what, 7 p.m.?

02:31:44,129	S1:
We only have February 29th meeting once every four years, so.

02:31:47,700	S3:
Yeah.

02:31:49,469	S9:
That's right. Is it March 14th?

02:31:51,700	S26:
Oh, that's.

02:31:52,100	S3:
March 14th is our next regular meeting. We have a meeting on February 29th.

02:31:55,969	S9:
Okay.

Sorry. 02:31:56,670	S4:
What's going on at that meeting?

02:31:57,969	S3:
I'm going to give you this right now. We got a request to.

02:32:01,200	S9:
The.

02:32:01,299	S26:
Amendment.

02:32:01,799	S3:
The hearing for an amendment to the zoning bylaw to get on this.

02:32:06,229	S26:
Oh, yeah.

02:32:07,200	S12:
Oh, the trash yards are some of the junkyards agenda?

02:32:09,969	S9:
Is this the only thing that's on but isn't?

02:32:12,799	S4:
When is this board going to I thought this board was going to see I mean that impact meetings on the 29th.

02:32:20,399	S26:
I can't remember what we're having.

02:32:21,870	S3:
You know what? I'm sorry, I wasn't sure.

02:32:23,430	S9:
I mean.

02:32:23,829	S26:
Emotionally.

02:32:24,600	S3:
You can have this meeting.

02:32:26,430	S9:
Can you second.

02:32:27,229	S5:
It? I second the motion.

02:32:28,870	S26:
What's the emotion we're still taking matters.

02:32:31,870	S9:
It was a motion to adjourn until February 29th.

02:32:35,270	S1:
So this is the. This is the subject matter for the 29th?

02:32:38,629	S26:
Yes.

02:32:39,270	S1:
And we are or are not going to have the inclusionary zoning thing come back to us then.

02:32:44,399	S3:
No, it's not coming back. Some visionary zoning is.

02:32:47,430	S1:
Fall.

02:32:48,170	S3:
Done for now. This is for when we determine the fall meeting schedule and put that back on for spring. Spray. This is for the intention. Yes. They intend to get this on the agenda for the spring.

02:32:59,270	S5:
And are you going to send this to us?

02:33:01,930	S26:
You sure did.

Yes. 02:33:03,329	S3:
I haven't sent you that yet. Did I send it to you today? Okay.

02:33:06,700	S26:
Um, no.

02:33:07,569	S9:
Last week with.

02:33:08,270	S26:
The.

02:33:08,870	S9:
No. You sent it.

02:33:09,399	S26:
Today.

02:33:10,100	S9:
You sent it.

02:33:10,500	S26:
Today?

02:33:11,069	S9:
You emailed it to us today.

02:33:12,200	S12:
It's not there at the end. Okay. But it's two nights in a row of long meetings.

02:33:15,770	S26:
Oh, yeah.

02:33:16,299	S3:
I've scheduled a public hearing for this for the 29th. That's why I've asked you to have that meeting that night.

02:33:22,399	S1:
Right.

02:33:22,799	S3:
This would be the only. The other item on that is going to be Spring Hill.

02:33:26,700	S26:
Yeah.

02:33:27,069	S3:
I should have all the information I need for you to have an idea whether you're ready or not.

02:33:32,770	S1:
So maybe maybe we could have one short conversation about next steps on this MTA thing.

02:33:39,569	S3:
Okay. On the 29th or.

02:33:41,670	S1:
Just just a short conversation about what we're doing next.

02:33:44,469	S26:
Okay.

02:33:45,670	S1:
Okay. By then, maybe you'll know more about what March 14th looks like, and we can decide whether we're.

02:33:50,670	S26:
Just.

02:33:50,969	S1:
We're dedicating that meeting to making.

02:33:53,370	S9:
We're also going to meet will the meeting with the Housing authority will have taken place?

02:33:57,399	S26:
Exactly.

Yeah. 02:33:58,229	S1:
All right. I have a.

02:33:59,170	S20:
Motion on.

02:33:59,670	S1:
The table to adjourn the meeting, and I have a second.

02:34:03,469	S5:
And a second.

02:34:04,100	S1:
All in favor? We says I, I.

02:34:07,299	S26:
I I.

02:34:08,299	S1:
Thank you. Thank you to H.W.

Kamm. 02:34:11,430	S26:
Thank you.